we got a lot of news coming up, including the trial i mentioned starting in two weeks. you can send me your thoughts about questions we should cover, ideas you have. go to @arimelber or arimelber.com. i'm curious, what do you want to know about this trial and how we koofrb it. it's going to be a big story for america. thanks for joining us on "the beat." "the reidout" with joy reid starts now. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> on june 14th, 1946, god looked down on his planned

paradise and said i need a caretaker, so god gave us trump. i need the most diligent worker to follow the path and remain strong in faith. and know the belief of god and country, so god made trump. >> since that creepy video in january, trump's messiah complex has only gotten worse. and the man who compares himself to jesus is simultaneously using threatening rhetoric against president biden and a judge's daughter. also tonight, a major ruling by the florida supreme court on a ballot measure that would enshrine abortion protections in the state's constitution. it could have a major impact on the november election in that state. plus, filmmaker rory kennedy, sister of robert f. kennedy jr., joins me to talk about her new hbo documentary series and why she and most of the kennedy family are supporting joe biden and not rfk jr.

but we begin tonight with a lunar fact. for christian believers, yesterday was easter sunday. better known to the saints as resurrection sunday. the holiest day in all of christianity. but its actual date changes every year. why? because of the moon. easter falls on the first sunday after the full moon that follows the spring equinox. got all that? now, of course, easter is also a holiday with a mix of different components. for christians it's the date of the resurrection of jesus of nazareth. it's also the secular holiday when the easter bunny leaves out gifts and candy and colorful easter eggs. a symbol of new life and a leftover of pagan prechristian cultures in europe. naturally, this year, right wingers egged on by their pretend news outlets freaked out about almost every aspect of easter sunday, including a pre-emptive meltdown about what small aspect of an adorable and

innocuous white house tradition. today's 144th annual white house egg roll. maga world accused the biden white house of banning religious themes from the decorating contest, leading the american egg board to put out a statement reminding everyone that the american egg board has been a supporter of the white house easter egg roll for over 45 years, and the guideline language referenced in news report has consistently applied to the board since its founding across administrations. but the irrational freakout didn't end with the edible egg, no, no, it extended to an inability to understand the lunar fact i mentioned earlier. the date of easter changes every year, and this year, it happened to coincide with international transgender day visibility. republican house speaker mike johnson claimed the white house betrayed the central tenet of easter by commemorating the two on the same day. and donald trump's campaign demanded an apology from the

white house, to millions of christians. but i guess they didn't bother to check the calendar. since 2009, including the four unfortunate years when trump was president, international transgender day of visibility has been held annually on march 31st. and the biden administration has marked the date every year since biden was elected. republicans were, however, content to ignore actual blasphemy from donald trump, a week in which he compared himself to jesus and promoted his $60 maga bibles with secular literature tucked inside, because to trump, easter sunday is just another day to violate the fourth commandment about honoring the sabbath by hawking his cheap snake oil to the maga masses for cash to pay his legal bills including the bill about his violating the seventh commandment by committing adultery with a porn star and the one where he violated the eighth commandment by stealing from the taxpayers of new york by making up the prices of his real estate.

trump kicked off easter sunday with an unhinged posting spree on his grifty social media site. he posted more than 70 truths or retruths over the course of just a few hours. most of them during a time when a true christian believer would likely be in church. true to form, it was a grab bag of grievances and nonsense. he started the day calling republican congressmen who are resigning to be way out of dodge should he and his insane clown posse return to power, cowards and weaklings. in another post, he attacked judge arthur engoron, and letitia james over the new york civil fraud case. he finally seems to remember the holiday be evening time with an all caps easter message screaming accusations of election interference. attacking special counsel jack smith, fulton county d.a. fani willis, and manhattan d.a. alvin bragg. he did manage to get in a happy easter before going off the rails. but it is fitting that trump would make the easter holiday all about him.

he has perverted his own persecution complex over, well, everything. into a full-blown messiah narrative where he himself is jesus. one post linked to a washington examiner op-ed titled the crucifixion of donald trump. another was a link to the right-wing conspiracy site gateway pundit that proclaimed him the chosen one, sent and blessed by god. now, we all know donald trump has probably never so much as cracked a bible to know anything about the real jesus whose sermon on the mount advocated tenets like turning the other cheek and loving one's enemies because trump is the kind of messiah who gets his followers to violate the first commandment about having no other gods before god, and who fantasizes on social media posts about kidnapping and hog-tying the real president in the flatbed of a pickup truck decorated with

idolatrous maga flags or at least that's the message he endorsed on good friday when he shared a video with that image amplifying the violent imagery and rhetoric he's normalized and passed on to his most ardent maga fans. as "the new york times" noted, photos of trump's similar images of mr. biden tied up have been shared across social media and online vendors sell vehicle stickers with the image. probably to people who call themselves christians. joining me now is david jolly, msnbc political analyst and former republican congressman. and jim wallace, director of the georgetown university center on faith and justice. and author of "the false white gospel, rejecting christian nationalism, reclaiming true faith, and refounding democracy." the book comes out tomorrow. congratulations on the book, jim wallace. i want to read something david french choo is a conservative christian, a very conservative christian, this is what he wrote in "the new york times" over the weekend. the title of the piece is trump

is no savior. the maga method is clear. first it whips up its people into a religious frenzy. it lies to convince them that the democrats are an existential threat to the country and the church. it tells worried christians that the fate of the nation is at stake. then as it builds up the nature from the democrats it constructs an idol of trump, declaring his divine purpose and spreading his prophecies on his coming return. let me play trump supporters in iowa who are victims of that idolatry. here they are saying trump is the savior. >> i say when jesus died, he died for us. so he did it for us. so when trump is facing all these things he's doing it for us. in our place. when they are indicting him, we are being indicted. when they talk negative about him, they're talking negative about us. >> i'm being indicted for you. my first thought went to, well,

jesus christ died for my sins. jesus died for me. and so it connects in my brain that way, like okay, he's doing this for us as a country, to make the changes we need to make, and he's the target. where we don't have to be. >> jim wallace, we used to call that idolatry. your thoughts. >> hello, joy. >> blasphemy, too. >> let's use those words. idolatry is false worship. worshiping god, but these christians have been co-opted by nationalism. by white nationalism. so it is a false worship. the other word that we often don't want to go near is heresy. heresy is what takes us away from christ. and jesus suffered an identity theft on january 6th. when people stormed the capitol violently and shouted his name. so i wrote this book as an

easter book of resistance and hope at the same time. every nation has its better angels. and its worst demons. so it's going to get worse, as you say, because donald trump is the marketer, not just of racial grievance, for sure that, but also he's a marketer of our worst demons. and our racial demons as we know go very deep in this country. so we got to get deeper than politics here, deeper than all the attacks he made on easter sunday, after which he said happy easter. you know, so this is about this election is not just a test of democracy, as you point out on all your shows, it's a test of faith. the integrity of faith communities. where will we stand? how will we stand? how will we speak? i think we need to find easter

isn't just a day. it's a season, as you and i know. this is the season where we have to find, search for the hope, giving us the courage to act. it's going to get worse and worse. so we have to act with real courage and hope and really show what this really is. and you know, call people back to the teachings of jesus, whether christian or not. jesus teachings can bring us back. and this book is all about jesus teachings. >> absolutely. and i love the way you do theology because it's full of the kindness of jesus, the red letter christianity i grew up and think is so important to bring back and hopefully we can bring it back. i want to go to you, david jolly. you know, i was furiously texting my poor producers less than an hour before the show saying wait a minute, as we're talking about this, maybe we're getting it wrong in a sense that, you know, i always say that the difference between religion and a cult is in religion your savior dies for

you as jesus did. in a cult, you're asked to die for your savior. and what donald trump is doing, it's equal parts the power of positive thinking which is the church to the extent it's a church he grew up in, but it's also kind of david koresh. it's kind of jim jones. because those two men started by saying you need to come to jesus. they started as christian evangelizers. eventually, their evangelism said i get to have your wife, no,tually, i get to tell you to kill these federal agements that are outside. i'm asking you to pick up a machine gun and shoot them because i don't want to go to jail. this is manson stuff, where you stop saying worship god and you start saying i am god. i am god is what trump is saying to his followers. why are they believing it? >> yeah, joy. in a lighthearted way, you would say donald trump is jealous of jesus. all the attention given to jesus by the christians of the world yesterday. but look, this conversation is

going pretty deep, and i think you put your thumb on something very important. donald trump is preying on the fallibility of faith. the whole notion of faith, of christian faith, muslim faith, whatever it might be, that you are putting your trust in something you cannot see, and you are walking by faith and not by sight. and what donald trump is doing is saying, wait a minute, let me show you all these reasons you should doubt your faith and you should trust me, and you should follow me. that is dangerous. i mean, take the trans proclamation, for instance. it's a weakening of faith to suggest the christian world should be concerned about that. people of weak faith are concerned about the actions of government. people of strong faith yesterday know they have put their faith in a deity that they have entrusted their lives and the future of the world to, regardless of one's faith, it's a concept that is easily understood. this idea of faith, and donald trump seizes on the fallibility and creates doubt and suggests

he's the one, he alone can fix the problems you face, when it requires an abandonment of the deity you have previously put your trust in for those fixes. >> right, because democracy is about we collectively fix the problems through a government we elect. he's saying no, that's not the way you do it, jim. the irony of all this, trying to compare yourself to jesus and christ is not his last name, it means the messiah. the reason that when the people that he was ostensibly hoping to lead or even not even asking to lead, but was saying i'm an xemler to my people, one of the reasons they rejected him on the cross is he was not a warrior god. he was a god who said i worship my father god, not the roman emperor god, and because he wouldn't renounce the emperor is god and said my father is god, we said we're going to kill you. donald trump is the opposite of that. he's saying i'm the emperor god. he's the head of rome, not

jesus, but he's literally gotten his people to melt down their gold into a calf and worship it. another sin of people who, if you believe that people should follow jesus and didn't, we can't see your works, you're not a vidzable god. we want a visible god. trump is saying i'm a visible god. he's literally an idolater. it's making me lose my mind to watch people who call themselves christians fall on their knees and worship this man. >> this is where we have to understand bad religion has always distorted politics. some say the only answer to bad religion is no religion. i think the answer to bad religion is true faith. what i'm trying to do is say what did jesus say. you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free. the opposite of truth for jesus is not lying but captivity. so many people you talk about here are just captive. they're stuck. they're embedded in this false

religion. jesus said, you know, we are made in the image of god. god said genesis, chapter 1, first book of the bible, which means any attempt to take away the vote of anyone because of the color of their skin or anything else, is an assault on amoggo day. i want to get back to what the text says. i want to let jesus do the talking. then i want to say, do you believe it? or not? >> that's right. amen. and let's don't forget the ten commandments, the old testament, the torah, the ten commandments start with i am god and thou shalt have no other god before me. if you actually are a christian, you should have no other god before god. donald trump is not god. he's not jesus. he's just a politician who doesn't want to go to prison and he's selling you crap sneakers to make you pay his legal bills when he's supposedly a billionaire. it's a scam, a cult.

wake up. people and stay woke. >> he's selling false religion. we have to go right to that and false religion. we have to bring true faith back to take it on very directly. >> amen. he's selling helter-skelter. it's scary stuff. thank you both very much. up next on "the reidout," we have huge, huge decisions on abortion from the florida supreme court today that will impact the lives of millions, millions of women. "the reidout" continues after this. ues after this are you still struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix.

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for the past 12 years florida has become a maga mecca. it's where their failed presidential candidate and current governor ron desantis says woke goes to die. well, today, we got a reminder of the power of the conserve tchb movement in that state. seven conservative justices, five appointed by desantis, allowed a 15-week abortion ban to stand. what's far more disturbing is that a six-week ban will now go into effect within 30 days. because florida republicans don't think their 15-week ban went far enough. however, on the same day, the court surprised pretty much everyone by granted florida voters the opportunity to overrule that decision by approving a november ballot initiatives establishing abortion as a right until viability. it will take a 60% majority to pass, but this places a potent issue directly into the hands of the voters. and it has the potential to

fully resuscitate a florida democratic party that had already been showing signs of life. in a recent special election, in central florida, a democrat won a republican held seat in the state house. and a democrat flipped the mayor's office in jacksonville last year. florida senator rick scott will be on the ballot in november. and given today's news, he along with a number of other republicans, will face a more challenging path to re-election. scott barely eked out a victory in 2018, just beating incumbent democrat and former astronaut bill nelson by one tenth of a percentage point. while in the senate, scott, who is as charismatic as ebenezer scrooge has been a major champion of the wealthy and major corporations. he's an adversary to women and the poor and a thorn in mitch mcconnell's side. he proposed putting social security and medicare on the chopping block with a wild plan that would force congress, get

this too, have to reauthorize the programs every five years. scott also doesn't seem to think women should be allowed to make decisions for themselves. he supported governor desantis and his move to sign a six-week abortion ban which he said he would have done if he was still governor. now as senator, he thinks it's time to talk about a federal abortion ban. florida is the first state where pro-choice advocates have placed a constitutional amendment on the 2024 ballot and could have major, major consequences. joining me now is florida congresswoman debbie powell of florida who is running to replace rick scott in the senate. congresswoman, was this ruling as big an earthquake to you as it feels like it is to me? >> yeah, so you know, i have been here in florida now for months, traveling across the state, and i have seen the energy and the grassroots movement that has been organized by this group that gathered more

than a million signatures be able to put this ballot initiatives in november. so i'm actually not surprised because we saw across the board, whether republicans, democrats, or independents who signed on to this ballot initiative, they want to make their own decisions of what is best for their bodies and their lives. not politicians. and we have this independent streak here in florida, joy ann, which means we don't want any government interference. now, i'm extremely concerned on this six-week abortion ban, one of the most extreme bans on abortion, when most women don't know they're pregnant. it's going to really put a lot of lives in danger. it's -- we're going to see a spike in maternal mortality rates, specifically for black women. i'm concerned for my daughters and young women across the state of florida. >> in a way, i almost feel like ron desantis and rick scott are sort of a victim of their own success.

desantis pushed all these just insane things through the state, through tallahassee, through the state house, to try to get himself to be president, including the six-week abortion ban he signed in the middle of the night, but it replaces what would have been 15-week abortion ban. i almost feel like if it would have been a 15-week ban, maybe it wouldn't have caused the cataclysm this will. during spring break, a place where young people go to visit, a lot of young people go to college, are going to wake up 30 days from now in a state that is essentially the handmaid's tale, and between them and a free state, are about seven other red states including georgia that has a six-week ban, south carolina that just passed a ban. you're talking utred states as far as the eye can see, and the sea behind you. you have nowhere to go in florida now. that to me sounds like a hell of a motivator to women, to voters of color, to people who essentially tend to lean democrat. >> yes, and i can tell you that,

like you said, this is really going to disproportionately affect women of color, latina women, black women. 1 in 5 women in the state of florida that have access to abortion actually are coming from other states. we were the last state to offer abortion care. and like you said, desantis has failed every single step. and we saw his failed presidential campaign, and we just saw it a week ago, where voters here came out, rejected desantis on a republican primary. they actually, 17% of the republican base here in the state of florida voted for nikki haley. these extremists in tallahassee and extremists like rick scott do not represent the values of floridians. this is going to backfire. i can tell you, it's not just abortion that rick scott, like you said earlier, has been at the extreme poster child and pushing this agenda. it's also on other issues like repealing the affordable care act, sunsetting medicare and social security. his luck is about to run out. >> by the way, i was shocked when he ran the first time.

he self funds. he's going to have plenty of money. he's a very wealthy man. he can self-fund. it's how he became governor. i think he spent like $80 million. i was surprised the democrats didn't hit him harder on medicare and medicaid and tricare fraud. his company when he was ceo committed record fraud, and he pretended as ceo that he knew nothing about it. he was deposed about it and tried to play dumb. that person then becomes the governor and senator. is that something you're going to highlight in your campaign against him? >> i have been talking about this since day one. i come from latin america and was born in ecuador. i came here when i was 14, started working at a minimum wage job at the age of 15. we know, latinos know what it looks like to have corrupt politicians like rick scott using that money, that money that he actually took from medicare, from the government, to buy the seat in the senate and then use that seat for

self-enrichment and self-gain. that is why voters will reject rick scott in november. we have two polls now showing me ahead of rick scott after they know the truth of who he truly is. and he's one of the most vulnerable republicans, for us to keep the senate majority, it runs through florida. we are a purple state. i have been saying this for months. and i know that we're going to show everyone that here in the state of florida, we are going to protect a woman's right to choose. our freedoms, our liberties, and make sure that we reject the extreme politicians, politicians like rick scott, that are not representative of our values and doing everything to take away our rights. >> former congresswoman debbie powell, i know this is somebody from the state where i used to live because she calls me joy ann, my real name. a woman, a latina, a democrat who seems to get it and know how to fight. baby, florida is back in play. thank you and best of luck. >> florida is back, baby. >> thank you so much. and coming up next, you would

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and now, we have reached the let's nuke gaza portion of our program. with republican congressman and former pastor tim walberg infolking america's nuclear atrocities while discussing his opposition to u.s. humanitarian aid for gaza. >> we shouldn't be spending a dime on humanitarian aid. it should be like nagasaki and hiroshima. >> get it over quick. said the so-called man of faith. referring to the japanese cities the u.s. destroyed with atomic bombs in world war ii. hundreds of thousands of people died immediately from the blast or later from radiation exposure. wahlberg tried to clean up his comments because this is what he said. i used a metaphor to convey the need for israel and ukraine to

win the wars as soon as possible without putting u.s. troops in harm's way. meaning he said what he said. he has a history of saying foolish things caught on camera. here he is last year cohosting the national prayer breakfast in washington, d.c. month later, he would speak at uganda's national prayer breakfast where he urged leaders to stand firm in the face of condemnation for mandating the death penalty for aggravated homosexuality. the congressman's words come as conditions continue to deteriorate in gaza. and there is nothing quick or simple about it. suspected israeli war planes bombed iran's embassy in syria on monday, and tehran said the strike killed seven military advisers including three senior commanders. joining me now is a scholar of global theology whose work

continues to shed light on religion, iran, and the israeli/palestinian conflict. he's the author of many books including a new one entitled a kid's book about israel and palestine. it's so good to see you. it's been too long. i'm a huge fan of your work. i will try not to fan girl too much. but i flipped through your new childrens book, and what's astounding to me is you can find a way to explain all of these very difficult things for young readers and young minds. but how do you contextualize and explain so many deaths and children, babies, kids starving? >> i mean, it is not an easy task. this conflict is so complex and so awful on both sides. adults have a hard time understanding what's going on, let alone trying to explain this to children. as a father of four myself, i have kids ranging from ages 4 to 12, and they are inundated with

headlines and images of the death and destruction on both sides. we mentioned the over 30,000 dead in gaza. two-thirds of that are women and children. and what i wanted to do is create a very simple to understand text that lays out the history of this conflict without assigning blame to one side or the other. and the goal of which is to just create empathy in children, which i truly believe is a superpower for kids. >> yeah. and i mean, the thing about it is the concepts you have to explain involve things that kids fear. you go to the store and you can't find your parents, the idea of kidnapping. when i was a kid, there was a constant fear of the blue van that was driving through town that might kidnap you, the idea that your parents might die, you might die. sesame street struggling with the idea of explaining death to kids. as you mention, at the same

time, all these adult things are happening and they're in their social media. if they can get their hands on a phone, they're not thinking about death, they're seeing death. how do we deal with that? >> yes, and a lot of what they're hearing is misinformation. and this awful dehumanizing rhetoric like you just talked about a little while ago. children are a lot more sophisticated than we think they are. they understand fairness. they understand justice. they understand that there are two equally valid, equally legitimate narratives here. and there is no simple solution to this conflict. the book doesn't pretend that there is. i'm not here to give kids the answer to this decades-long conflict between israel and palestine. but that's not the point. the point is to challenge these kids to be able to see the other side, to understand that these are human beings. it's not just about politics. it's not headlines. these are actual human beings who are facing these challenges,

and if you can just empathize with them, if you can understand what they are feeling, and if you could figure out a way to recognize that listen, both sides are the blame for a lot of problems here. both sides have plenty of reasons to be angry and afraid of the other side. but if we cannot get past that, we'll never get to a place of peace. and by the way, if we are ever going to have peace in the middle east, it's going to be our children who are going to be the ones who are going to usher in it. >> and if you want to comment on that awful congressman who said we should nuke gaza and essentially treat it like hiroshima and nagasaki, little kids died in that. it's so sickening to call upon our worst sin, and i do want to note for our audience, we have really bad news that some aid workers who work for jose andres' organization that feeds people have been killed. four of those who are dead are

foreign nationals from poland, austria, and uk from world food kitchen. that breaks my hard. if you want to respond to that or that man who would make light of the vaporization of 200,000 people. >> i wish that rhetoric wasn't as unusual. it is a fairly common thing to hear, even from politicians, even from pastors, as you rightly say. this conflict has become so dehumanizing, as you just rightly pointed out and the headline you just showed. and if we are going to move forward, we can't keep talking about people like they are not actual human beings. i mean, this congressman, let's be clear, is calling for genocide. that's what he's calling for. talking about nuking gaza. we have got to get past this kind of rhetoric. i don't have a lot of faith in the older generation, unfortunately. but i do have faith in children,

and that's why i wanted to write this book. >> i love that you did it. we're going to put it back up on the screen because kids are also asking their parents for what is the history here, this is a great book for you to get to explain to your kids who are interested in this, as my kids, they're not little like yours, but they're interested. a kids book about israel and palestine. thank you, my friend. >> always a pleasure. >> cheers. coming up, robert f. kennedy jr. now has enough signatures, be afraid, very afraid, to qualify for the ballot in the key swing state of north carolina. up next, the dangerous forces behind the appeal of his bid for president. struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com

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today independent presidential candidate robert f. kennedy jr. announced he's received enough signatures qualify for the november ballot in north carolina through the we are the people party. all but securing his spot on the ballot in a crucial swing state that trump won by less than 2% in 2020. now, it's no secret that kennedy's campaign has the potential to break or make president biden's chances for re-election. recent polling shows in a head to head race, biden is leading trump 48% to 45%. within the margin of error. but add rfk jr. into the mix, and trump edges ahead with 39%, biden at 38%, and kennedy

receiving 13%. what is it that draws voters to kennedy's campaign? he's made several comments in recent years peddling anti-vaccconspiracies including about the covid vaccine. those types of views used to be the type of thing you would only see on the dark corners of the interwebs, but the anti-vaxx movement has gained serious traction since the start of the covid pandemic four years ago. in some ways it's become a sort of religious belief for a lot of americans today. the other big pull has a lot to do with his last name, kennedy is one of the most famous and storied names in american political history. it's basically the closest thing to a royal family that we have here in the u.s. and it wouldn't be completely unheard of for voters who are unhappy with the two major party candidates or who want a younger option to choose someone based on a non-political factor like their last name. look at donald trump. in many ways that's a big reason he was able to win in 2016. his famous last name and all that was associated with it. that drew enough people in to

support what is essentially become a religious cult that is maga. but it is notable that a lot of those who share the kennedy name, rfk jr.'s own family, have called his campaign dangerous to our country and have voiced their support for president biden including his sister, rory kennedy, who has a new documentary series out today explaining the rise and fall of a different religious cult and we'll talk to her about all that after the break.

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sin non, he wouldn't have done it without us enabling him!. >> a look at the new documentary that explores the groundbreaking 1950s drug treatment program that evolved into cult like program. it debuts tonight on hbo and max. rory kennedy, this feels timely. something that starts out to try to help people with drug addiction, celebrities like jane fonda and such hanging around. and then it morphed into lots of guns, basically a cult of personality, women essentially being abused, it's sound familiar in a weird way and i'm not sure why. how did this all come apart? >> well, we are very excited to be finally sharing the sin anon fix this evening on hbo. i became fascinated with the

story as you say. it started as this really progressive forward thinking drug rehabilitation program in 1958 out of santa monica. chuck dietrich led the organization. he had come from aa. he had gone to meetings all of his life or for many years. and he didn't feel like those meetings were confrauntational enough. he want tded to get to something different. he started having aa type meetings at his house where you could confront people instead of just telling your stories. you could say, idisagree with you and you could be angry and express your emotion and drug users started coming in and they were staying and they stopped using drugs and it evolved into a really affective program and

turned into a residential space and evolved ultimately into a life style community and then to what many consider a cult. >> what did you learn about the ways in which human mind can become so corrupted that it can cause itself to believe that this person has some sort of god like power, that you must stay, you cannot leave, that you should get guns, shave your head. did you learn about what it is that allows people or causes people to be susceptible to an organization like this? >> yeah. it is interesting because we were able to talk to people who really told the story. there is no narrator in the series. it is coming from the perspective of the people who experienced it. when this program started, it was founded on two pillars, no drugs and alcohol and no violence. by the end, they had an open bar and more firearms than anyone in

the history of california. so looking at that institution from the perspective of the people who lived through it and made sense of those changes as they occurred over time is truly fascinating. i think it gives you an insight into how that happened. i have also learned now being immersed in the story for the last two years or so that i think many people turn to cults when there is sense that there is uncertainty in society and things feel precarious. i think they look for new kinds of leaders and some new ways of making sense of the world. so i think those kinds of times and of course there is a lot going on in the world that i know creates that level of unsrnt that can lead to people

following cult like figures. >> and we talked earlier in the show about donald trump and how he has taken his own fear of incarceration and turned it into whipping up his supporters who are vulnerably religious and think that somehow he is god. i think the pandemic did a similar thing to people. it made people feel vulnerable, mass deaths. woe had never seen death on that scale in the modern era. so it doesn't shock me that people would turn to antivax conspiracies or q anon. i would be remiss if i didn't play your brother who was on another network. this is him talking about what he thinks are the noted threats. he is a noted antivaxer. here are the noted threats in the world. >> i can make the argument that president biden is a much worse threat to the democracy. the reason for that is president biden is the first candidate in history, the first president in

history that has used the federal agencies to censor political speech to censor his opponents. i can say that because i just won a case in the federal court of appeals and now before the supreme court that shows he started censoring not just me 37 hours after he took the oath of office. no president in the country has done that. the greatest threat to democracy is not someone who questions election returns. >> so he is saying that president biden is worse than donald trump. do you have insight into kind of where he went on this road to what seems to be a right wing conspiracy, antivax place where he now -- he's being followed by people because of his name, because of your surname. what do you think that comes from? >> yeah, you know, i think the reason that i have felt compelled to speak out about my

support for biden and my concerns about bobby's campaign is really based on the polls that you showed at the beginning of this program is that bobby's campaign really is siphoning votes from biden. and it could absolutely contribute to trump winning the presidency. and i think that that to me is the greatest concern. and i think that one of the reasons that i felt compelled to speak is because i feel if i don't say something, because he does have our name, kennedy, that people will think our entire family is with his views. and i think it is important to put out there that there are people who don't agree and have very