ongoing war or stance that's deeply unpopular along with criticism that they are prolonging their wars in order to stay in power. benjamin netanyahu like putin, has mastered the art of staying in power, pushing the country further and further to the right, even as fears of famine grow and as he is accused of using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare, in the occupied gaza strip which by the way is a war crime, as war rages and people starving children die, and is the fate of rafah remains unclear, benjamin netanyahu battles for his reputation, legacy and power, it's an uncertain time for his rain and as we learned from putin, that is where the world must were you the most. and that is tonight's readout. inside with jen psaki starts right now.

i know you've probably heard the phrase, history repeats itself. well, it's happening right now, i'm talking about recent history, and it's happening in broad daylight. we will talk about that throughout the show tonight with many of the people who would know best, former trump aid sarah matthews was at the white house on january 6th 2021, she's all political violence and the lead up to it, she saw how trump incited it and we are seeing that again. voting rights attorney marc elias is familiar with republicans efforts to delegitimize elections. i want to start out of the story from arizona, last month, a meeting of the maricopa county board of supervisors erupted into total chaos. people swarmed the meeting, the cofounder of a pro trump even commandeered a podium to announce, this is an act of

insurrection. one county official described the events as a coordinated attack and this stunk with me, a dress rehearsal for the election so yes when a bunch of election denies loss back in 2022, and may have felt like we were putting this all behind us. what's important to remember in this moment, that we really haven't, elections and i are kari lake is running for senate in arizona, mark finch and the goalkeepers leader who was at the capital on january 6th is trying to return to the senate and this insurgence of the big lie isn't just happening in arizona, the new trumpy rnc has been taken over by election denies, too, and they are zeroing in on what they are calling and election integrity strategy, that strategy is of course, not about protecting your vote at all, it's about voter suppression and about selling doubt in the outcome of

the election come november. this is all a sign of history repeating itself. but it's definitely not the only sign. i was in the white house back in 2016 when russia was actively intervening in our election on behalf of trump. i remember it very well. and you can ask just about anyone who's been involved in national security who would know, whether the russians were going to intervene again and i have. >> vladimir putin has obviously, your friend and mine, he has intervened in our election in the past, it's not something as you experienced firsthand, it's not something we talk about a lot. you fear that is something that could be happening for 2024? >> i think we should be talking about it more. i fear that you know, the russians have proved themselves to be quite adept at interfering and if he has a

chance, he will do it again. >> should we expect russia to interfere on his behalf in 2024? >> of course, they will find ways to interfere. i hope our intelligence community is equipped to respond, maybe better than we did in 2016. >> do you think they're going to intervene in our election again, do you worry about that? >> they are already intervening, and it's happening now. >> there's more than that by the way, and you can take therefore it or you can look no further than the fact that the star witness in the effort to impeach president biden may be, you guessed it, a russian asset. so, we have the selling of doubt in the electoral process and efforts to suppress the vote from the highest level and in important states, we can see that in arizona and the rnc and we have russian influence in our political process which is already underway. when it comes

to history repeating itself, there's no example as a parent and as concerning, as the rise in political violence and over the weekend trump said there would be a quote, bloodbath for the country, if he loses in november. after i discussed that yesterday, i think it's fair to say that right wing ecosystem got a little unhinged but they asked us to consider the context so that's what we did, the context is that trump kicked off the same rally by saluting the people who were convicted for the deadly assault on the u.s. capitol on january 6th, all to the tune of the national anthem sung by a choir of insurrectionists. the first words were a thank you to the rioters, who he called, patriots. at the same rally, he said, quote, if this election isn't won, i'm not sure you will ever have another election in this country and of course this is bigger than one unhinged rally. donald trump has been professing political violence for years. in 2017 remember that, when white nationalists dissented on charlottesville in a deadly

rally and trump's of the refined people on both sides? in 2020, he approached his defense secretary about shooting people protesting the death of george floyd asking, can't you just shoot them? shoot them in the legs or something. over the past few months, trump has warned of battle him in the country and potential death and destruction of the criminal charges derailing his campaign and in 2021, trump confessed convinced his supporters that the election was stolen from him, he told them to walk to the u.s. capitol and fight like hell and he watched on television. so yes, you absolutely have the option of buying the explanation that he was just talking about the auto industry in that speech over the weekend, you can do that, you can think election denies

in arizona are harmless because they lost in 2022. and you can ignore the fact that the russians are back at it, and assume, it'll all be fine. or, you can play a role in shining a light on all of it, because it's all happening again, history is repeating itself and everyone needs to be paying attention. joining me now is someone who's in the white house in january 6th 2021, who witnessed the words of trump up close and resigned her position on that day, former press secretary for the trump administration sarah matthews. we've talked before i've been looking forward to talking with you. let me start with the comments from this weekend. what did you hear? you worked for trump for some time, you resigned after january 6th, but he said it's going to be a bloodbath for the country. that will be the least of it.

what did you hear when you heard that? >> trump oftentimes speaks in these incoherent, vague sentences so that allows people to draw to the conclusion that they want to to fit their own narrative but when you look at the sentence, obviously the trump campaign is out there saying of course he's talking about the auto industry but then why would he use a phrase like that's going to be the least of it, immediately afterward? that alludes to something more and in my eyes, sure, he could have been talking about the economy but i think when you're looking at who the messenger was of this message, this is a man who helped insight and deadly insurrection on our nations capital so when he's using terms like bloodbath, it's hard for me to give him the benefit of the doubt. >> he also had a number of things in the speech including applauding insurrection is, and having the national anthem sung by rioters. and he was for the auto industry going bankrupt. that's important to remember. one of the things that struck me as many of the same people

who have been working overtime to kind of explain and put into context his comments, they have not really seemed to take an issue with the fact that he called insurrectionists, has been calling them hostages saying immigrants are not people, he saluted people which is reserved for people in the military as you know, convicted for their role in the insurrection. what do you make of that context here, the overspending and explanation of one comment when everything else seems okay? >> exactly, this one comment they are saying is overblown but it does follow a proven track record of these kinds of unhinged comments, increasingly violent, when he says things like there will be death and destruction if he's charged in these criminal cases, that is i think a warning call to his supporters, he is telling them kind of, marching orders almost, and we saw this happen in the lead up from the election in 2020, two january 6th, where he told them to come to the capital, he said he was

going to be a wild day that we needed to save our country, so he's putting these kinds of messages out there hoping they will act on them. >> you are familiar with his language and how he injects things that don't always make sense. and you saw that leading up to january 6th, do you watch this, it must be difficult to watch. >> i think it's difficult to watch and it's disheartening because obviously i served in the trump administration because i believed in the policies. i didn't always necessarily agree with everything you said and did but it's hard for me now to look at people that i admire, politicians and former colleagues of mine who still are working for him, still supportive of him because i think he has just gotten increasingly erratic and unhinged in his behavior since losing the election, and i couldn't imagine going to him or even cast a vote for him,

given everything that has transpired especially when we look at something like january 6th, and the stolen election claims, he's never shown any remorse for what happened that day instead, treats it almost like a celebratory occasion. i mean, as you noted, he plays an alternate or national anthem at the rallies and at the beginning of the rallies they asked the attendees to please rise for the unfairly treated january 6th hostages, as he calls them, and that's just completely absurd, so it's really disappointing to think that i supported this man and believed in his agenda and to see the type of things that he's pushing now. >> you can see people watching and hearing his language and echoing it in a way that we saw leading up to january 6th which is what is so alarming. i want to ask about former vice president pence because, you know, he said calling them

hostages is unacceptable. he also said he wouldn't be endorsing donald trump. i wanted to get your reaction to those common sense -- what you think the impact might be or might not be? >> i got emotional when i heard these comments, i know mike pence to be someone who is a man of faith, a good man, who only wants what is best for the country and i believe it took a lot of courage for him to come out and say that he would not be endorsing donald trump. look, it's unprecedented, no vice president has ever said that their own former boss is not fit to serve. and he knew, like i knew when i spoke out against from that that kind of effectively ends your career in politics and i think he knew by saying that he wasn't going to endorse him he would be signing away any future that he wanted in republican politics. so, i admire him for coming out and saying that. i wish more republicans would have a backbone like him and follow suit.

i know so many republicans privately, say these things and believe donald trump is a disaster and unfit to serve and january 6th is a horrific day for our country but they would never publicly say these things. >> do you think he's going to stick with it? >> i hope that mike pence sticks with it. obviously he has said that he won't endorse him right now but i think it would be weird for him to go back on his word and say he's not going to endorse him and then flip, so i think it would make the most sense for him to stick to it. he did the right thing on january 6th and i hope he will continue to do the right thing and not endorse him. and i don't think i necessarily expect them to say he's going to vote for biden per se but passionate >> i don't think joe biden is expecting that vote. >> i do think it's a huge statement for a vice president to say that he is not going to support his former boss, and so, i hope he does stick to his word on that. >> sarah matthews, i hope you

will join me again in the coming months as we are trying to make sense of donald trump and the election and what people should feel about it. >> trump is having a lot of trouble securing a bond in his fraud case. what happens next and when does the attorney general get to start seizing some assets? stay where you are. you are (shouting) hi! need new glasses? it's buy one get one free at visionworks! (shouting) how can you see me squinting? (shouting) i can't! i'm just telling everyone! ...hey! see your tax refund go further with buy one get one free at visionworks. see the difference. for moderate to severe crohn's disease skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms,

had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. control of crohn's means everything to me. ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. i want to take you back to 2016, when donald trump said repeatedly that he could self fund his campaign, remember? and therefore would it be holding two donors. >> hillary clinton's campaign is funded by wall street and hedge fund managers. my campaign is powered by my money. i'm self-funded, so i'm not controlled by all these people that control cruise, hillary, crooked, crooked, crooked hillary. >> i have tens and tens of

millions of dollars, nobody else does. i put my own money into this. >> well, guess what, it wasn't true back then and it certainly isn't true today. in a new court filing appealing his civil fraud judgment, trump's lawyer said today obtaining a bond for $464 million is a practical impossibility. they also said they approached 30, that's basically all of them, different companies that do bonds but they were rejected by every single one of them, none of them wanted to take on the liability, i or why. the question is, what happens next? after the judgment was handed down, the attorney general did not mince words. she was clear about what happened if trump did not pay up. >> if he doesn't have funds to pay off the judgment, we will seek you know, i judgment enforcement mechanisms in court and we will ask the judge to seize his assets. >> i'm sure i'm not the only

one wondering, which assets she has her eyes on, maybe we will see you soon. joining the mouse reporter david banfield who has written about trump and his finances. david, thank you so much. let's start here. trump said in his deposition he had substantially in excess of $400 million in cash. if that's true, none of us are mathematicians but why isn't he able to come up with the other $170 million here? >> probably a couple of reasons, one is that he's already had to put up a lot of cash for the e. jean carroll verdict. but he got a company to put up

the bond thereby giving them $91 million of assets, so that's lesson from our calculations, he only has about $350 million in cash which is a lot but less than what he needs so now he's in the situation of because the e. jean carroll money is gone, he's having to ask these bond companies to take a combination of liquid assets and real estate, which they have been unwilling to do and it's just not the practice, they want the cash because i think you will lose this case. >> let me ask you about that. he reached out to 30 companies and approach them about underwriting the bond, they all rejected it. what does that tell you, is that surprising to you, they don't want the risk, why did that happen? >> remember what we are doing here, the reason he's reaching out is because he's lost a case and he's now appealing it but it feels like this don't have a huge amount of success, so the banks don't want to take a risk here, they don't want to have to take a risk that you are going to lose the case and they will be on the hook for some of

the money, they want you to prove that you have the money to pay this right now. and so, the procedure is the same, they want to make sure that he has liquid assets big enough to cover the judgment which gets bigger every day with interest and they don't think he does. >> he doesn't have the liquid assets, he does have a lot of money and properties, he could put up half $1 billion in properties as collateral to one of these bond companies, could he do that? >> they apparently are saying they won't take real estate as collateral, so he would have to sell the property, get the cash they would take that as collateral. >> i'm not suggesting you have insider information that you are familiar with his assets, james is threatening to seize those buildings, which buildings do you think are in her eyesight here? >> reporter: well, it looks like she would start with the easiest to get stuff, remember after this case she has a good catalog of all of his assets and she would start with the liquid assets, start by seizing bank accounts, brokerage accounts, if she has to seize properties, that's complicated both logistic and also because

trump's properties have these indentures on the, there's a case where trump tower, only owned the bottom and the commercial floors, the golf courses they owe huge amounts of deposits those go to the office, one of the easiest would be the building on the 12th avenue, he owns a chunk of the voting that someone else runs, that would be the easiest on paper to get but i'm sure every one of these will be a fight >> he owes almost $112,000, every day and interest, that is so much money every time i say that or i read that, every day the fine goes unpaid, the incentive would be just to pay it or figure it out but is there incentive to delay it? >> this is a case where the delay seems to have run out,

you know monday, he will owe this money and if he can't get a bond than the ag could start seizing assets, he does have options, he could sell a property, we talked about the limits on the kinds of things he could sell but he could sell a property, he could try and borrow money from a wealthy supporter or foreign government or god knows who, and imagine how much he would owe that person literally and figuratively or he could declare bankruptcy, that would shut the process down but would cause a lot of complications down the road, and it would be a bad luck in the middle of a presidential campaign. >> darling money for a company or who knows what that could also be, we will be watching closely. his new york business background as part of his identity, some of this have said that his new york business is over as we know it, what does it look like after this? >> well, i mean, put aside the

question of, you know, whether james seizes the assets or not, remember he's been barred for running a business in new york, the trump organization was already in a weird stasis, it hasn't shrunk that much, it hasn't grown, i don't know what it's reason to be is, it's got a few hotels, golf courses, mar- a-lago, you know, it seems like the smart thing to do would have been to get rid of these assets and shrink it down to the places he goes, they've not been willing to do that. this might trigger that kind of collapse of a major reorganization. >> fewer places to visit, i suppose. thank you for breaking this all down. i appreciate your time this evening. do you remember this guy? former trump campaign chairman paul manafort, the convicted felon? turns out that he is in talks to help the trump campaign again this year. this year.

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just when you thought the year cutting get any weirder, the washington post reports that donald trump is expected to bring back his former 2016 champagne that's my campaign chairman, paul manafort and rehire him as an advisor this year. you may be wondering, how is that possible, paul manafort is a convicted felon who was at the center of the mall

investigation, among other things he pleaded guilty to witness tampering and conspiring against the united states then he backed out of his cooperation deal, lied to prosecutors and went to prison for a trump. donald trump pardoned him just before leaving office. despite all of that, trump is reportedly determined to bring manafort back into the full, so determined, he could give manafort a role in the republican convention this july. that's a pretty big deal. and if a convicted criminal will be in charge of the republican convention, we better brush up not just on his rap sheet but who exactly paul manafort is, so, here's the refresher you never knew you would need . first of all, paul manafort has been in republican politics for a long time and no surprise he once had a lobbying and consulting firm with another trump convict, roger

stone but it was manafort deep ties to clients including a russian oligarch and the pro- russian former government of ukraine that raised eyebrows after the 2016 election. investigators both found that manafort regularly exchanged information with a russian intelligence operative, that was this guy, constantine, and he is wanted for his ongoing efforts to interfere in american politics, in dealing with him, manafort shared the campaigns plan to win the election and discussed specific battleground states . of course as the treasury department later confirmed, he relayed all the information to his bosses in the russian intelligence services. if that wasn't bad enough, an investigation by the intelligence committee revealed that the two pieces of

information which are redacted from the report raised the possibility of manafort potential connection to the operations. now, we all know manafort was swept up in the robert mueller probe waged -- he was part of the kremlin effort to have false narratives ahead of the election and their goal was to damage you asked ties to ukraine, denigrated biden and benefits trump's prospects for reelection, so given his dealings with the russians by and given that he's been a conduit for russian influence, it's no wonder he was deemed a grave counterintelligence threat and that's not robert mueller saying that, that's from a bipartisan report of senators of both parties yet here we are. this is the guy trump reportedly wants back in his

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instead they continue to fester and inspired violence and intimidation against officials and election workers including in maricopa county, arizona. a majority of whom are republican, as you can see, they were forced to abruptly end a public meeting and be escorted out by police after members of a pro trump conspiracy group rushed the dais, shouting that the board was illegitimate. a top official told the washington post that the group was an organized coordinated attack and it was a dress rehearsal for the election which is a chilling statement. since then the board has rehearsed emergency evacuation drills and they've had to. it's terrifying but it shouldn't be surprising, donald trump continues to push conspiracy peers about the election every chance he gets. in the rnc just elected a new chairman with his own history of election denialism who hired

a conspiracy theorist as the senior counsel, it's a clear signal of what to expect ahead of the 2024 election, an organized effort to legitimize election conspiracies and lives in a brazen attempt to undermine americans faith in the democracy, we've seen this movie before. the rnc has already filed dozens of what they call, election integrity lawsuits including one today targeting voter rolls in nevada, last week they did it in michigan, the apparatus under trump's leadership appears to be prioritizing these lawsuit that comes -- support these conspiracies, it seems blatant to me. they are all in charge of the rnc. do you see this as more alarming or different, how would you categorize it compared to the lead up to 2020? >> in 2020 we largely caught them flat-footed and trump

surprised his own team by coming out against vote by mail. the bad news is, since january 6th, rather than recoiling from the big lie, the republican party has refined it into not only a messaging campaign, not just in the in the electoral campaign but a strategy. here are a couple of numbers. the fact is in 2020 one year after donald trump tried to overturn the election during the insurrection, 25% of the litigation was brought by the republicans, in 2022 the number jumped to 52%, last year, it was 68%. of all of the bad litigation going on in this country was being sponsored by the

republican party or its candidates and already as you point out, we've seen a flood of new efforts. ronna mcdaniel was fired not because she couldn't raise money or trumpian out but donald trump wanted someone who was able to be more effective at making it easier to cheat and that's what they will do in 2024. >> usually party committees are organizing voter outreach and finding state parties and trying to reach out. you talk about all of these lawsuits. nevada, michigan, are there other tactics that are more under the radar that aren't getting as much attention that you think people should be aware of? >> absolutely. i've said we are not going to solve the problems of democracy through the courts. fundamentally, what we have right now is a political party that knows it cannot win a majority of the popular vote but it can't win if everyone is able to vote who is eligible. so, the biggest threat to democracy and free and fair elections this fall is what i

called election vigilantism by conservatives and republicans. we saw it in the run up to 2022, where he saw people, conservatives with flat jackets and body armor, video cameras, staking out drop boxes in maricopa county trying to intimidate people. we saw unprecedented levels of voter challenges, this is right- wing efforts to misuse voter data, to try to prevent lawful people from being able to be registered, we saw 364,000 georgians challenged in the 2021 election and another 100,000 challenged last year. we have seen these widespread efforts to try to intimidate election officials and voters and try to dissuade them from voting because that is the republican playbook and it's up

on all of our responsibilities to fight back against that this fall. >> so part of this is obviously preparing it seems, though you tell me, to challenge or question the outcome of the election in november, especially if joe biden wins, what will that look like, what should people be prepared to see? >> look, i mean, anyone who things that donald trump was talking about the auto industry has been living in a cave for the last few years, donald trump showed us what he would do in 2020. he would, he would lie, he would spread of misinformation. he would coddle up with every bad dictator in the world okay? and then when that wasn't enough, he would abuse the legal system and when that wasn't enough he would inspire a violent insurrection in the nation's capitol to prevent the certification of the election. that's what he was willing to do in 2020. now he faces a long prison sentence, he faces an

existential crisis to himself and his freedom. he will do anything in 2024 and so we should expect to see the tactics that he and the rnc and others will engage in around election intimidation, voter harassment, trying to, you know, intimidate election officials, replace good election officials with a light adherence and ultimately, ultimately that is not enough in the aftermath of the election, we have to be ready for him to, as he promised from the stage, just the other night, have therapy widespread violence. >> i mean, mark elias, there's so much litigation we've got to be watching. i hope we can have you back on many times before the election. coming up, as we head toward the general election, new warning signs about how independent voters see donald trump's legal troubles, amy walter from the cook political report is standing by to explain and she joins me next. me next.

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one of the most striking things about the republican primary was how much trump's legal troubles seemed to help them but as we head toward the general election, it's important to remember that independent voters and the larger electorate are a different ballgame, donald trump will be the first president to stand trial on criminal charges coming up in the middle of april, and a new poll shows more than a third of independent voters a guilty voter that my verdict would make them less likely to vote for him and 75% of independent voters said that he should not be immune from criminal prosecution. how big a difference could it make. joining me now is amy walter. the fact that you are making all the archives available, it makes a political nerd like me -- >> even if you are not a

political matter, to look at some of these contests, some of these same people today, but in many cases, you can see just the way in which our politics have changed so dramatically over the last 40 years, in like actual print. and the parties. >> let me ask you about the polls a, it does surprise me that if he is convicted, it makes such a difference, people know the facts and details of these, but what do you make of that, and sort of the impact of

trump's legal troubles? >> it's a hypothetical right now. and mark blumenthal who said democratic pollster, wrote something the other day that i thought was really smart, back in the time of the impeachment of bill clinton in 1998, voters were asked a hypothetical during that, saying if he's impeached, should he resign, and he had a lot of voters saying absolutely, if the president is impeached, he can't serve any longer. it made a lot of sense until we went through the whole impeachment process, we obviously know what happened in that election and by the time the impeachment process ended, the same voters were saying well, no, he shouldn't resign. so i don't know that you can get voters at this moment to say how they would react to whatever is going to come up and it's not just trump's legal troubles, we are going to have the supreme court make a lot of decisions about a lot of other issues, the alabama supreme court now is a major issue in this election and the position

on ivf. >> you were writing this recent piece, i read it a couple of times, you love data and i love data titled biden hasn't converted anti-trump voters to probe biden voters. it's interesting, that these people have not been converted, they are excited about joe biden, a lot of them are still anti-trump and he said if trump is not at the center, biden space is not interested in listening to it. to succeed, biden meets this election to be all about trump. there are a lot of things he can talk about but it's all about winning, sorry basically saying i mean, you know every campaign, you just can't be

about the other person, you have to sell yourself as well. when you look at the coalition that is the biden coalition, it's an anti-trump coalition, and the numbers i stated readjusting, nbc polling, from going into the 2016 campaign, and into that election, remember most people who voted for trump in 2016 weren't pro- trump they were anti-hillary clinton, so we only had about 39% of voters say i'm showing up for him but by the time we got to 2020, 72% of the voters were voting for him and very few were voting against biden. biden came into 2020, a third saying of voting provided, the rest saying i'm voting against trump. so if that's your coalition, your coalition is motivated by one thing or mostly one thing and that is donald trump and the less that he is in the picture, the harder it is for biden to make his case. anytime that trump comes into the news or something around a trump issue, it's front and center, anytime, you get much more interest and engagement from the voters who voted for biden in the last election. >> there's lots of things that people are mad about. >> the other thing i read

today, is that, a lot of people looked at the fact that trump was overestimated in a lot of the primaries and he didn't perform as well, and most of them, 10 to 15 points, there's a piece about it's not a predictor of the general and real talk here, there's lots of things to be debated but i had to ask you about that, do you agree with that assessment? >> the number i always look at with trump is not the gap between what vote he is getting and what votes biden or any of the other opponents are getting , look at the vote share, what percent of the vote is he getting in the polls and what percent does he get on election day and they really weren't that far off. it basically tells you what is his floor or, actually more, what is his ceiling, and so, i think what we learned from the primaries and we will take more into this, some of these voters

showed up in georgia and voted for nikki haley, many of them had voted in the democratic primary in 2020. so it's not to say that there aren't nikki haley voters that may be trump voters from 2020 but there aren't as many as it looks based on those primary results. >> you've got to be clear about the data. >> i can't wait to go through every house race with you. that's my dream. i've got one more thing to talk about, it involves donald trump and asbestos. we are back after a quick break. .

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okay, so here's the good news, i promise we have good news, biden's epa said it's banning the use of asbestos which is known to cause lung cancer and mesothelioma and also kills test tens of thousands of americans every year. lots of people banning it, it makes all the sense of the world but trump is not most people. the former president actually is a long and loving relationship with asbestos. in a book he wrote in 1997, he

claimed it's 100% safe, he also said that movement against asbestos was led by the mob, because it was often mob related companies that would do the asbestos removal company and in 2005 you talk about asbestos during a hearing in the senate, my friend chris hayes dug up this clip a few years ago and you have to see it to believe it. >> in new york city, we have a lot of asbestos audits and there's a debate about asbestos, a lot of people could say if the world trade center had asbestos it wouldn't have burned down or melted. a lot of people think asbestos is the greatest fireproofing material ever made. and i can tell you i've seen tests of asbestos versus the new material that's being used and it's not even a contest, it's like a heavyweight champion against a lightweight from high school but in your great wisdom you folks have said asbestos is a horrible material so it has to be removed. >> just absolute crazy town there. and he was still making that claim on twitter as recently as 2012. fast-forward to his time as president and particularly the trump administration fought

legislation that would have banned asbestos and imposed a policy that the epa's own scientists warned about, he was so well known as the king of asbestos that in 2018 a russian asbestos company was marketing its product with trump space on it. now, trump's affinity for asbestos almost certainly has to do with the cost of removing it and how much that probably bothered him during his time in real estate this is also an important reminder that if he gets back into office, he would likely try and roll back some of the most sensible government regulations. i think the lesson of the night is we've got to keep our eye on the big stuff, all of the big stuff including asbestos and the little stuff, including trump's crazy comments and basically everything in between and we will keep doing that on the show for all of you every night and every time we have it, i promise you. that "the rachel maddow show" starts right now.w hi, rachel. >> hi, jen. very much appreciated it. >> thank you. >> joining us at home, very happy to have you here. so this is a story about us. it is a story about the united states. it has always been a story about