another symptom of a democracy in decline, the effort to ban books in 2023 marked the highest level of attempted book bands ever recorded. from an already starting to thousand 571 individual titers that were targeted in 2022, two 4240 titles targeted in 2023. the ala identify trends from this year's data, groups targeted public libraries in addition to school libraries, nearly half or 47% of those books focus on lgbtq people and people of color. we will stay on that story. thank you for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times.

we are grateful. hi katie. >> hi, thank you so much, and welcome to the beat. tonight, there could be a delay in donald trump's hush money trial in new york. more on that in a moment but we start with breaking news. judge cannon denying without prejudice trump's motion to dismiss counts one through 32 and is classified documents case. her ruling coming in moments ago. she said trump's arguments are better suited to be argued later on in connection with other motions. in other words, she punted the decision. it comes after trump and jack smith faced off in a federal courtroom in florida today, trump's attorneys arguing to dismiss the entire superseding indictment against him, claiming the presidential records act gives them the authority to take and claim those classified documents as his own personal property.

in the motion, trump's lawyers wrote, president trump exercise virtually unreviewable authority to designate the records as personal. in court, trump lawyer todd blanche arguing, quote, presidents, since george washington have taken materials out of the white house at their own discretion. the doj quickly shooting back. the documents charged in the indictment are not personal records. period. they are nowhere close to that. remember, trump allegedly had nuclear secrets stashed away in some of those boxes. the doj emphasizing the gravity of the whole scenario, quote, there has never been a situation remotely similar to this one. but those weren't the only arguments presented by trump's team. they also resurrected an old favorite, but her email's. arguing, that hillary clinton wasn't prosecuted so trump

should be, either. i should note, the fbi found that clinton never discussed any classified materials and that you know is on her private account. meanwhile, trump's defense in public seems to be if you say it enough, it must be true because speaking last night to newsmax, he readily admitted he took them. >> i took them, very legally and i wasn't hiding them. we had boxes on the front, a lot of the boxes were closing, we were moving out, unfortunately, i have the right to do it, in my opinion and my lawyers opinion and everything else. >> joining me is kristi greenberg, former prosecutor with the southern district of new york and an msnbc analyst, and emily basil on with the new york times. that was a fast ruling from judge kelly, she said she would rule promptly, we did an expected to happen a couple of hours after court recessed but cannon didn't really decide anything.

what are your thoughts about this ruling? >> right, she dismissed the motion that donald trump made that essentially the statute is too vague, the espionage act is too vague, as it's applied to him and judge cannon in her order said well there are still these fluctuating definitions, it's like, what, what is fluctuating exactly? the statute has been applied over and over again, there are decisions on it. this isn't an area of law that is new. there are decisions that tell you exactly what the terms are and it was explained to him from lawyers, exactly, that he could not keep these documents, so i'm not really sure what she is talking about as to why this is vague, it seems like this was a motion that could have been decided on the papers but

you're right, she just punted this down the road, kick the can down the road which seems to be her mo in this case. >> there's a lot of us, scratching our heads as to why and kristi just mentioned it, why either of the two motions that were filed by trump, the presidential records act and the unconstitutional vagueness, why they even deserved oral argument in the first place. you think judge cannon is getting on-the-job training here? >> i think to be generous to judge cannon, she is trying to show that she is taking arguments seriously, she talked about that, that these were serious arguments and i suppose once you decide that then you want to hear from the lawyers on that question. i think it's important to emphasize how broad an argument trump and his lawyers are making here. they are saying that as the former president, if he said a record was personal, that he had the power to decide that

and that that is not really something the courts can review, so that seems to suggest that former presidents get to decide at the end of their tenure, what to keep and take home with them, and what the government gets to have, and that is really hard to square with the language of the actual statute here which was passed in the wake of the nixon administration to make sure that presidential records remained part of the public record and with the federal archives, not in the boxes and in places like mar-a-lago. >> in the mar-a-lago bathroom, to be specific for some of them. i want to switch gears because i love that we have you here this evening especially the new york dna -- da file a notice supporting a limited 30 day delay in the hush money trial. it would give trump's lawyers time to review a new batch of voluminous documents that have been provided in discovery. trump's lawyers are asking that the trial be delayed 90 days and they are wholesale asking for a dismissal. you spent a lot of time at the

st ny. what is your reaction to this notice from alvin brad? >> i'm really confused. i think there are a lot of questions here. according to the filing from alvin bragg more than a year ago, he asked for the full grand jury record relating to michael cowans campaign violations from ny, that included search warrant returns, really, he asked for a lot of this information, and they produced a subset of what he requested and they produced that as they should have, back in june of last year, now, in january, donald trump serves a subpoena for a lot of this material, and in march, a few weeks ago, sdny produced some materials that largely alvin bragg says are irrelevant other than a few hundred pages of

witness statements but then yesterday, they produce another 30,000 pages of documents and alvin bragg said this is what i asked for more than a year ago. so there are real questions as to why, if he asked for it over a year ago it's getting produced less than two weeks from a trial date and that's not all. sdny also said that they have more to produce, and they are looking to make a production next week. this trial is scheduled for the 25th. you cannot be producing documents on the eve of trial. this prosecution happened in 2018. there is no reason why they should be producing documents on the eve of trial. i think there needs to be an explanation here and just one more point, we say all the time that donald trump's tactic is delay, delay, delay, and that is largely true and largely frivolous. in this situation, katie, as

you know, from being a prosecutor, you don't want to be in a position where you are producing documents on the eve of a trial that the prosecution hasn't reviewed and the defense hasn't had an opportunity to review. so this doesn't seem like it's alvin bragg's fault, he produced what he had in his possession but it's a real question as to why he didn't get these materials sooner. >> emily, to use that as a springboard what chrissy just explained, he also talks about the fact that delays should be attributable to trump because bragg turned over tens of thousands of documents last year, but it was only until mid january of this year, just shy of 60 days going to trial, that a subpoena was served by donald trump on the southern district of new york, to get these documents, some of which, it sounds like, there's a huge overlap there from what was turned over in production last year and what was subpoenaed but why is it then, that this possible delay, which is going to be another win for trump, you know the way i look at it, it still a state prosecution,

not a federal prosecution. so maybe it doesn't go to trial this month but maybe next month, still in advance of november. >> yeah, that's entirely possible. i do think there is a pattern here where you are seeing the legal system tie itself in knots in some of the prosecutions of trump. you know, his lawyers and trump desperately want to delay and they are scoring wins as the prosecutors and the judges, also in the name of being very proper about due process or because of what sounds like a kind of set up and answered questions about why the southern district and produce these documents earlier. it starts to seem like the legal system as part of the problem. and that is troubling, given the stakes here. >> i suspect that the judge will get to the bottom of it before he grants any continuance. thank you for getting us

started. we will talk to a lawyer who turned down trump's request to represent him in the jack smith case. also coming up, the maga plan to got a voting method used by 100 million people in the last election. and how democrats plan to force republicans into the abortion trap that they created for themselves. plus, big oil co whose gaslight in america, blaming the public for climate change. all of that when we are back in just 60 seconds. 60 seconds. witched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon.

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i'm allowed to have documents and frankly, when i have them, they become unclassified. people think you have to go through a ritual, you don't. >> joining me now is john sale, former federal prosecutor and watergate assistant prosecutor and emily basil has stayed and is back with us. on previous occasions, we have spoken publicly about how you declined to represent donald trump, and now that we are closer to trial in several of the cases, are you still feeling good about that decision? >> i don't look back, there's always temptation to represent a former president, probably no hyperbole, the biggest case in the world but it just wasn't for me. i thought for a while, maybe i could separate just being a lawyer and put aside the political agenda but that's impossible, and when someone's running for president, there's no way you can do that. that just wasn't for me. >> john, i'm also glad you are here because the presidential records act, as we heard in the last segment enacted post

watergate, post next and, to be able to handle what happens to documents, materials, when a president exits hopefully gracefully, out of the oval, you were an assistant watergate prosecutor, your thoughts about the arguments that are being advanced by donald trump when it comes to the pra. >> i was a young prosecutor, i was also an alumni of the southern district. the arguments they made were not frivolous but they were wrong. the presidential records act as a civil statute it has no enforcement mechanism and it's clear, it says the documents belong to the american people, to the national archives. president obama when he left office turned over more than 3

million documents, and they were put in a skiff which is a secure location and that's when personal items are sought out. so clearly, former president trump had no right to them and it's just common sense. you can't about nuclear secrets. you don't have to be a rocket scientist for that. >> there some analysis from the washington post saying, quote, the argument presented by trump's attorneys echoes their broader defense of his actions, he had brought immunity, given his position. we are hearing this over and over again, it's a drum that is being beaten by donald trump, this idea that he had brought swaths of immunity that gives him total ability to do what he wants to do. what is the likelihood of this argument ever holding water? >> you are right, i mean, it's as if he is arguing that he is essentially not bound by the rule of law, that he is king and can do what he wants. i don't think that there's a good chance that the argument will hold water but it actually reflects i think, the enormity or the unusual nature of his

actions, the only defense his lawyers can come up with is to say the president can do whatever he wants. the president has immunity from anything he does in office, the president can take any document and declare them to be personal, no matter what they say, no matter the nature of the document. that's the kind of sweeping arguments they are being forced to make and it's really remarkable. >> john, i want to stay on this line with you because again, referencing nixon and nixon's abuse of the oval office and in my opinion, i perceive as the abuse of the office by donald trump, there are these parallels that are being raised in the case is about the immunity of a king when it comes to be able to disregard even the pra or other statutes or amendments. >> last friday i gave a talk at

the american bar association of san francisco and i called him an extra essential threat to the rule of law and democracy. but the position of absolute immunity was rejected as recently as george washington. he passed on becoming a king, so i don't think there's any chance the supreme court is going to say there's absolute immunity. the most important thing about the supreme court decision, i don't think it's whether it will hold, i think it's the calendar and the timing of they will come out with a decision in late june or early july and then we will have to look and see whether or not there's any possibility that a federal trial to go before the election. >> emily, i want to ask you from a practical standpoint, when we are trying cases, whether they are civil or criminal but particularly the context of something involving national security, classified information. you think there is a risk in any way that the complexities of this case as we are seeing being fleshed out in these

various motions that are being filed in this case, do you think there is a risk that the jury is not going to be able to perceive kind of what the technical issues are that are being presented to them? >> i don't think so. in some ways it's really straightforward, you took a bunch of stuff that they told you not to take because you weren't supposed to have it. in some ways, i think the documents case is the easiest of the four criminal sets of charges against former president trump. one of the reasons he is eager not to have a jury here it is there is a commonsense nature to adjudicating these disputes. >> and katie, don't forget the obstruction. the obstruction is part of the mar-a-lago case and that is the strong case where i think even in fort pierce, if there is a trial, donald trump will be held accountable.

>> john, obviously, it's the cover up that is worse than the crime. but i think the cover-up and the crime are equally as bad, you would agree, right? >> absolutely. >> and emily, to your point, as i let you go, i told my kid since she's been a toddler, you shouldn't take stuff and you will get in trouble and i don't think donald trump understood that and he is an adult. nice to see you guys. still ahead, newly revealed internal gop documents suggest republicans may be falling into a brutal political trap on abortion. but first, their stunning new comments from donald trump's daughter-in-law, who now runs the rnc, spelling out a radical plan to attack voting rights. no shocker there, it's all on tape. on tape

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now to stunning comments from donald trump's daughter-in- law, laura trump, who now runs the rnc about voting in america. there from a video that's been posted online, and it, she spells out a goal which if achieved, would radically reshape u.s. voting laws and pose broad new draconian restrictions. she implies her father-in-law is on board. >> once donald trump is president of the united states, once we have a huge majority in the house because that's also something that needs to happen this election cycle and we take back the senate, then you can change the voting laws and you could have one day of voting.

you could have paper ballots. you could have voter id. >> it's a breathtaking goal, calling for one day of voting. meaning, and end to early voting and an end to mail in voting. roughly 100 million americans voted early in 2020. she's also pushing the right- wing plan to enact stricter voter id laws which would have a disparate impact on communities of color. it's an extreme agenda and i should note later in the same video, laura trump inadvertently revealed she understands the importance of early voting by telling republicans to vote early this cycle so the gop can gain power and change the laws in the future. and she didn't and at voting laws, she also talked about rnc plans to train poll workers. >> something the republican national committee was not able to do for a long time and we are now, there was a moratorium on train poll workers, these

are people, we are not just any other kind of looking around. these are people who can go in there and physically handle the ballots, they can count the ballots coming in and going out. >> and that's not all, under new maga leadership, the rnc is also ringing a prominent election denier into the upper ranks, hiring former far right tv host, christina ball, as, quote, senior counsel for election integrity. she worked to raise money for the gop's arizona election audit and publicly urged mike pence not to certify the 2020 election results. she even wrote a vote -- book called stealing your vote and included an introduction by steve bannon. >> it's becoming glaringly apparent that donald trump absolutely crushed joe biden in the election. the damage the democrats installed the voting system in key locations with the intent to rig elections.

it's treasonous for our federal government to take away our right and hide it for us and rig an election and install an illegitimate president. that is what happened. >> joining me now is david jolly, he is no longer affiliated with the republican party. i want to play those comments from laura trump again because they are that important and i want to get your take on the other side. >> once donald trump's president united states, once we have a huge majority in the house because that's also something that needs to happen this election cycle and we take back the senate, then you can change the voting laws and you could have one day of voting. you could have paper ballots. you could have voter id. >> i mean the perversion david of what she is saying with the

backdrop of that music, that's bizarre, right, but i mean, you know, putting that aside, they are saying it all out loud. they don't care who is listening. i mean, david, this is not funny. >> there are crazy people running the rnc, and it's going to get worse, and i would suggest that laura trump does not understand the principles of federalism when it comes to the election but let's take her at her word, why are they chasing this, when historically, republicans have done fairly well in early voting and nail in voting at least before donald trump came on the scene and told people to doubt it. they are doing it for two reasons, one is to sow doubt. we overlook this but part of trump's election playbook and now his daughter in law as a senior official in the rnc is to sow doubt in the minds of republican voters about any part of the administration of the election so they have a fallback to blame that if trump loses. but really what they are doing is republicans understand, they understand that the more voters who vote, democrats win, and the best case studies for that

are our presidential elections were republicans only won a popular vote in the last years when more americans vote, democrats win, so they are trying to reduce the number of americans to vote so that republicans have a shot at being competitive because on policies, republicans extremist positions are simply out of touch and they lose to democrats when voters have the right to exercise their franchise. >> the irony is not last -- lost on me she is really proposing rigging how the voting system goes down. and here's the ridiculousness about this. in the last year, there are some d.c. republicans who are saying that the party should do more to encourage their voters to do early voting. so, what is the logical reason why maga leaders are ignoring

those calls? >> you know it's all informed by donald trump's opinion on this and whoever can figure out what's inside his head would win the award but to your point, take the state of florida where, it was a swing state, purple state now arguably republicans have taken control and taken the super majority in tallahassee for the governorship for 3 to 4 successive terms, they used very well the republican party used early voting and mail in voting much better than democrats did, so when donald trump threw cold water on this, there was a lot of republican state parties that said, do not discourage this because this is a good tool for the republican party but donald trump so to doubt and ever since then, we have seen the attrition of republican voters voting early by air.

that's what you see laura trump saying if it's a tool by which democrats can beat us, we will see if we can get it. >> you know, david, i don't believe in coincidences, so we are in decision 2024, you have laura trump, cochair of the rnc, michael watley who is a elections here and i have christina bob, who's the senior person in charge of election integrity and then you have laura trump talking about poll workers being trained and the thing that stopped me dead in my tracks is when she talked about having these rnc trained poll workers physically handling ballots and that really freaks me out because it's stacking it right, it's been trying to stack it so legitimate voting can't take place. >> you are exactly right, why would it be important for laura trump to have maga republicans touching ballots? think about that. unless they are actually there

to change the vote, or to somehow impact the election through other means than voters actually casting their vote, why would it matter the party registration of a poll worker? in jurisdictions across the country, you have nonpartisan employees, volunteers, who are poll workers but then there are parties that get to a point in most jurisdictions an observer, where they stand and watch and make sure the administration of the election is done with fidelity. laura trump is trying to shatter that model and suggest that they want maga republicans touching the balance after they have, if trump loses he will say he was treated and the nation will face a crisis. if he does win, it's likely he tries not to leave office four years from now. this is the direction that republicans are going, the entire party owns this, not just round. >> and all of america needs to listen because they are telling us what they are going to do. >> thanks for being here.

still ahead, big oil is under fire with one ceos skirting the blame for global warming, shockingly blaming the public. but first, the gop's latest tone deaf strategy on abortion as vice president harris makes history today, visiting a health clinic. health clinic. if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away

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as we approach the two-year anniversary of the united states supreme court overturning roe v wade,

republicans can't seem to figure out why american women are so angry about their rights being stripped. a new strategy is circulating at the policy retreat for gop are informing republicans that they have a brand problem not a policy problem, when it comes to abortion but it's the policy that keeps losing. since the fall of row, every single time abortion has been on the ballot, voters have chosen to defend or even expand access to healthcare. the wall street journal reporting the gop's dubious analysis presented by a male lawmaker of course, recommending that members express empathy for women. of all the issues to avoid mansplaining, this one just might eat at the top of the list. the fact that republicans need a memo to remind themselves to express empathy for their own constituency, only amplifies that the gop is struggling with both the brandon the policy.

and democrats are exposing that weakness. today vice president harris visiting an abortion clinic in minnesota, the first sitting vice president or president, to do so. >> how dare these elected leaders believe they are in a better position to tell women what they need. to tell women what is in their best interest. we have to be a nation that trust women. >> joining me now is aisha mills, interim president of the national institute for reproductive health action fund. it's good to see you. thank you for being here. what do you make of this republican memo, it's like i can't even give it credence by calling it memo because it's nuts but is this more of a brand issue or is it a policy problem or frankly, just both? >> i don't know how we have any conversations about republicans without just laughing them out

of the room. it's ridiculous, having empathy for women while you are literally attacking women and pregnant people, period, it's just counterintuitive to everyone's psyche, it is ridiculous and it won't work. every single time that we have had the voters weigh in on abortion access, across the board, as a bipartisan sent -- sentiment, people want the government to stay out of our pregnancy, full stop and there's nothing the republican party can do to change that or persuade voters otherwise. >> in her remarks today, vice president harris described how clinics in states where abortion is legal are harmed by those bands, take a listen. >> this existed in a neighborhood where laws have been passed to deny people reproductive health care and so women have to travel here, the majority of women who are receiving an abortion our mothers. god help her that she's got affordable childcare. she is working, god help her, she's got paid family leave.

the work that happens in a clinic like this includes answering those questions. >> this is something i talk about a lot because i think it's important for american voters to understand that abortion is an economic issue just as much as it is a freedom to choose issue. >> it is, and i want to lift up the fact that as the vice president who has always been a great champion of choice, and so thoughtful in her advocacy on abortion rights issues that while she was there, the clinic that she was at was actually functioning and working, in fact one of our partners on the ground, our team spoke to today, the name of the abortion fund is our justice, was literally helping to get people to the clinic, transporting folks there and there were patients that were there despite all the cameras and other things that were going on

so i appreciate the fact that the vice president was there, talking to an actual provider, to meet people at that clinic and i hope it's really just the first step in this administration, concretely taking action to get us out of this mess we are in and i would love to see them now, take this wonderful conversation that they are lifting up around the country and turn that into policy action, put pen to paper and get us out of this mess. >> biden gave a well-earned shout out to vice president harris and her work on this issue during his state of the union address. vice president harris has spent the last few months on a nationwide fight for reproductive freedom store. do you think, aisha, that voters are watching and listening very closely to what vice president harris is doing? >> absolutely. voters are listening to it all and here's why this battle is

so sinister. because people are saying, look, at the end of the day, and we talk about reproductive health and rights and justice, what we are talking about is reproductive freedom, and this idea of freedom from a partisan standpoint, republicans want to cling so heavily to, it's really at the end of the day about getting government out of our healthcare decisions, getting government out of the business of pregnancy and at the end of the day, people do not want politicians, especially you know, male politicians who don't even understand anatomy, to be talking about what they can and cannot do around there pregnancy decisions. and so, i think it's a losing conversation to politicize such important deep and healthcare

issues, they know that it's a losing issue, no matter how much quote unquote empathy they try and have. we are trying to make sure that everybody has access to reproductive health care, abortion and beyond. and they are trying to restrict people's rights and access. >> so it is a brand and a policy problem. aisha mills, it's really good to see you. thanks for being here. >> thanks, katie. this past winter was the warmest on record. i have a special guest to talk e about why the climate crisis is here now. now. >> man y selfies. a preposterous amount of pano! that means panoramic. and as many portraits of me as your heart desires. (woman) how about none? (boy) none. (man) yea none feels right. (vo) trade-in any iphone in any condition and get a new iphone 15 pro and an ipad and apple watch se all on us. only on verizon. [♪♪] if you're only using facial moisturizer in the morning,

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everywhere but the seat. the seat is leather. alan, we get it. you love your bike. we do, too. that's why we're america's number-one motorcycle insurer. but do you have to wedge it into everything? what? i don't do that. this reminds me of my bike. the wolf was about the size of my new motorcycle. have you seen it, by the way? happy birthday, grandma! really? look how the brushstrokes follow the line of the gas tank. -hey! -hey! brought my plus-one. jamie?

this past winter was the warmest on record. all across the country, people reporting that spring is already here, and experts are pointing to climate change. >> 66 degrees, this is more like mid to late april. >> it's the earliest ice out in almost 100 years. >> here it is, february, blue sky, amazing water, i feel like i am in the caribbean. >> it's too early for plants and animals. >> the future climate crisis is here now but the oil is still avoiding responsibility. the ceo of exxon mobil now saying that it is the public who is really to blame, not big

oil. >> the dirty secret that nobody talks about is how much is all of this going to cost any was going to pay for it. the people who are generating the omissions need to be aware of and paid the price for generating those emissions. that's how you solve the problem. >> exxon mobil raked in a record $36 billion in profits last year, that is the top concern for them in any debate about future sources of energy. >> we don't see the ability to generate above average returns for our investors. while we recognize the need for that. we don't think it's an appropriate use of exxon mobil's capabilities. >> exxon has had a notorious role in spreading climate denialism. they knew about climate change 40 years ago but kept quiet. ag. they made stunningly accurate g. climate predictions back in the '70s and the '80s. three years ago, congress grilled oil executives on their role in downplaying the effects of climate change. even as they continued to profit off of it.

and this is what exxon's ceo said then. >> oil and gas will continue to be necessary for the foreseeable future. >> some of us have to actually live the future that you all are setting on fire for us. >> we reached out to exxonmobil earlier today. and they declined to comment. joining me now is bill mcgiven, acclaimed author and environmentalist, the founder of third act, a group fighting climate change. thanks for being here for this consistently important conversation that we always should have. i would love to get your reaction right now to exxon's ceo's attempt to gaslight all of us on the cause of climate change. >> well, ceo of exxon said two interesting things, katie. the first, which has set some kind of world record for irony is that the public is to blame because we, quote, waited too

long to build solar power and wind power and other renewables. the reason that we waited too long, as exxon and its colleagues in the fossil fuel industry waged a 30-year campaign of disinformation and denial, which as you pointed out, was completely contrary to what they knew about climate change. exxon in the 1980s back when i was researching the first book for a general audience about all of this, and its own scientists that work on the same problem, and they came up with really good predictions, and their bosses believed them. exxon started building drilling rigs higher to compensate for the rise in sea level they knew was coming. they just didn't tell the rest of us. that's why we have waited too long. the other thing that he said that was interesting was actually kind of honest. he said exxon won't be investing in sun and wind because it doesn't return above average profits to our shareholders and

investors. and the reason for that is because the sun and the wind deliver energy for free. once you have built your solar panel or your wind turbine, then the sun provides the power when it rises above the horizon. if you're exxon that got record rich by selling us energy every month for our lives, that seems like the stupidest business model on earth. it's the business model consumers need and the planet needs, but the one exxon continues to do everything it can to stamp out. >> bill, i want to stay on your last point. so exxon, as we talked about, earning record profits. one thing that stuck with me about what the exxonmobil ceo said is how carbon capture, for example, would be a great solution, not in the immediate sense, but could be a really great solution to this problem, but he complained about the cost or the attendant cost, but can

we really not afford to lead the way on climate change? >> he wants -- what he wants is for taxpayers to pay the money for carbon capture, so they can keep on burning oil and gas. the real answer here is that we don't need to do that. scientists and engineers have dropped the price of wind power and sun power so dramatically, about 90% in the last decade, that we now live on a planet where the cheapest way to produce power is to point a sheet of glass at the sun. that's a mortal threat to exxon and why they deploy their lobbyists to do things like drum up money for carbon capture and so on. they want us to pay the freight for all these complicated schemes so they can keep doing something that we no longer need to do. the quick conversion to renewable energy, every study, saves the world trillions of dollars, even before you account for the almost unaccountable

cost of climate change. so this transition needs to happen and it could happen, but the incredible political power of the fossil fuel industry remains squarely in the way. that's why at places like third act, climate and democracy, we actually are really pleased this fall to have one big win with our colleagues on the gulf coast and things. we were able to get the biden administration to pause the permitting of new huge liquefied natural gas export terminals. big oil hated that. it's really the first big blow like that they have taken in a very long time. and that's one of the reasons today that third act just endorsed joe biden for president. because he really has been willing not only to say yes to clean energy, with the inflation reduction act, but at least some of the time to have the political courage to say no to

dirty energy like that attack on the permitting for those lng terminals. >> bill mcgiven, i want to say thank you for taking the time to share your insight on this really important issue and i hope to be able to speak with you again soon. thanks for being here. >> indeed. you have a good night. >> you too. we'll be right back with one more thing. thing introducing, ned's plaque psoriasis. he thinks his flaky red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. otezla can help you get clearer skin. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it.

serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla.

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that does it for me. be sure to catch the katie phang show on saturdays at 12:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> i took him very legally, and i wasn't hiding them. we had boxed on the front, a lot of boxes had clothing. we were moving out. unfortunately, we're moving out. i had the right to do it in my opinion and my