she's been doubling down on that and trying to turn the tables on george saying that he was offensive, that he is shaming her. no. you are shaming all women but the fact that you were walking back all the history and his standing up for donald trump. >> she said the word you are shaming me 22 times. she said offensive 13 times. he was asking a very obvious, logical question. the last thing i will give you is that she turned around and mocked e. jean carroll and her response at her survival. so this is how your selling women on voting republican? i don't see it. >> they are in a very tough position because they have to defend the misogynistic policies and then they have to defend you know the president with all the allegations. or the candidate. >> indeed, thank you both very

much. much. >> there's a lot going on tonight. we've got another immunity claim from donald trump. a key witness in the mar-a-lago documents case is now speaking out on camera. all the while the general election is full steam ahead. just another normal monday in 2024. luckily for us, congressman adam schiff is standing by right here in the studio and dan goldman is going to join us later on. i want to start tonight with a bit of a riddle for all of you. a true social post about jimmy kimmel meeting with gary and autocrat victor ormonde in the last ditch effort to delay the start of his terminal child. tell us about donald trump. these seem like examples of unhinged and strange behavior.

>> it is. it's also the actions of someone attempting to project strength in order to cover up weakness. all the actions of a wannabe dictator. let's start with the news from earlier today. donald trump is trying to delay the start of his criminal trial in new york until after the supreme court rules on the scope of presidential immunity. remember that this trial he is trying to delay about the hush money payments made during the 2016 presidential campaign to adult film star stormy daniels to interfere in the election is supposed to start just two weeks from today. it is around the corner. he is basically saying that just because he was once president, he has been immune from anything he's ever done in his life. and of course, he has tried this tactic in essentially every case against him. it's one of his favorites including a defamation suit that he recently lost to e. jean carroll. with a loss under his belt, he is resorting to the same tactic that got him in trouble in the

first place. he is attacking e. jean carroll and trying to create a bit of an alternate reality to cast doubt on the jury's findings. over the weekend and once again this morning, he insulted her and called her accusations falls. so he is perpetuating propaganda about his perceived enemies. something, by the way, you don't do from a position of strength and you don't do if the facts are on your side. but given the people that he idolizes, none of this should come as a surprise. remember on friday just three days ago, he hosted hungarian prime minister victor ormonde at mar-a-lago and gave this assessment of the authority and -- authoritarian leader. >> week kept in touch. nobody that's smarter or better than viktor orban. he's a great guy. and on controversial figure because he says this is the way it's going to be and that's the end of it, right?

>> he can say this is how it's going to be and people just do it. isn't that great? not our democracy works. but that aside, the guy trump is praising -- praising there is the same person who dismantled democracy in hungary which is not held a free and fair elections in 2010. a guy who created his own court system by ruining the independence of the judiciary. crackdown on freedom of the press openly admitting that reshaping the media helps him maintain his power. left no space for dissent or challenge. that's how dictators take control. so it's easy to appear dominant when you break the system in your favor. he idolizes authoritarians who he perceives is all powerful because he creates the conditions necessary to maintain that power. that's how it works. here is the thing. they are not tough, they are desperate, they are paranoid and they are insecure. they are, in fact, we can so is

donald trump. we see that with his claims of immunity, with his attacks on e. jean carroll and with something as petty as an attack on jimmy kimmel during the oscars. does anyone think attacking the late-night house while watching an awards show is a sign that someone is super secure? at the end of the day, the point of all this is not to psychoanalyze donald trump. there is too much to get to in the show. it's not really about his mental state. it's about understanding how his own weakness and desperation to hold onto power would impact how he would behave if he is sitting in the white house again a year from now. fortunately, the perfect person to talk about all of that joins me now. democratic congressman adam schiff. last week he advanced to a november runoff in the race for u.s. senate. congratulations on your victory in the primary race. i know you still have a general election ahead but there is so much to get to. i wanted to start here with the immunity claim. because we have seen this playbook before many times. we've seen this movie before.

but this trial is supposed to start in two weeks. is it possible it could be delayed beyond that simply because of his immunity claim here? >> it is possible and this has been his thing from the beginning. delay, delay, delay in the hopes that justice delayed can be justice denied. the whole argument that as president your immune somehow that even if you try to overcome the election, the ultimate check on presidential power, the election, that somehow you are immune which would be an open invitation to any president in the future to do the same. that claim is going to fall even with the supreme court. what he is hoping his for a delay. it's even more absurd in the case of this new york prosecution because one of the requirements of even making this claim is that the acts have to be official in nature. what kind of an office was he holding a freighting hush money payments to a star was worth the job description. so absurd. but this is work for him.

we got the deutsche bank records. he delayed that for years. efforts to get the county firm records of his. he strung it out for years and he is hoping to bring this out past the presidential campaign. >> is a lot of money that he owes and judgments that have already been made. in the opening, he continues to attack e. jean carroll. let's look at your response to that. >> a person that i never met. i have no idea who she is except one thing. i got sued. from that point on i said wow, that's crazy. i got charged. i was given a false accusation and had to post a $91 million bond on a false accusation. >> i mean, he had self-control for like a second there. do you hear that as meeting the bar of defaming and do you think if you are robbie kaplan you should act on that?

>> certainly could. a jury could certainly conclude he is at it again. and what's more, the fact that he keeps having these judgments against them is just further evidence that he knows what he is doing. he has defamed someone. it cumulatively adds to the proof against him but it also shows both that you know, you've got to be either stupid or crazy to keep doing the same thing. millions, but it also shows no matter what instructed by his lawyers or anyone else, he just can't control himself. you don't want someone in the oval office was no impulse control, not when they have their finger on the button in addition to many other things. >> one of the things that's concerning to me and you've spoken a lot in the past about where the money is coming from and how we should be watching that is you know, you just made one payment upon payment. in one of these cases. he is the whole -- owes a whole lot more money in the civil

fraud case. we don't know who cosigned. if anyone present. there are not a lot of -- let a lot of limitations on who can pay for this. how concerned are you about that with somebody having leverage over somebody who might be sitting in the oval office? >> am very concerned about it. i think all americans should be concerned that someone could potentially have the leverage to the tune of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars over the president of the united states. even more broadly, what we see donald trump, whether it was his efforts to build moscow trump tower, his lies to the american people about it or his son-in-law dealing with the gulf nations. this is someone who will use the oval office if he ever gets the chance is essentially a cash cow. if we think that the enrichments and the stays at trump hotel and all the rest of that were troubling and violative of the constitution and conflicts of interest, that's child's play considering what he may do if he is at risk

of losing everything, which he is right now. he is at risk of losing everything. this is someone always motivated by greed. and the fact that whether it is russia or the goal for other nations, that he could be so desperate to recoup his money that he would be willing to do anything. sell out the country. that should be of great concern to us. >> i understand that they could pay or help them pay for bond payments where he owes money and these judgments of already been made. >> they could pass the prologue to get the efforts to find out who may be signing these are guaranteeing these could take years. >> he spent a lot of time in the national security space. it's worth restating how bizarre it is that the wiki essentially secure the nomination he decided to meet with prime minister or bond. today, he said that trump will not give a penny to ukraine.

which is going further than trump has. what do you make of the fact that we are getting more from the leader of hungary them trump on what his plans are and does that confirm what you already thought or make you more concerned? >> you know, both. it confirms the worst fears that we have about trump. here is someone who insecure or bond is kind of a proxy enabler stooge of vladimir putin. on the other hand, has dismantled his own democracy. these are birds of a feather. exactly what trump wants to do and you are precisely right. this does not show his strength. he emulates these dictators. it shows his weakness. he wants to be them because he lacks power. he is a weak figure. and he emulates these strongmen. he aspires to be like them. he has disdain for his democratic allies. no wonder nato is terrified. here is the good news in all of this. nato is enlarging and growing and becoming stronger.

notwithstanding what trump is threatening. nato is growing and thank god it is. president joe biden recognizes the value of nato and how it has kept our nation safe. it's going to be in many respects a very clear contrast between these two candidates for president. in no area more than national security does joe biden shine in supporting this international rules-based order which has kept our country safe and in no other way does donald trump so endanger us and when it comes to nato and national security. >> at such an interesting place to pay attention to. we share a love of national security issues. there was another report. a lot of reporting over the last 24 hours. former chief of staff john kelly said this to cnn. my theory on why he likes the dictators so much as that is who he is. every incumbent president is shocked that they have so little power in congress which is a good thing.

it's external one. but in this case, he was shocked that he did not have dictatorial powers. to send u.s. forces places or move money around in the budget. he looked at putin and that nutcase in north korea as people who are like them in terms of being a tough guy which sort of confirms -- he was his chief of staff, what we all think. what you make of those comments from john kelly? >> it kind of harkens back to trump saying that he can do whatever he wants. he has no interest in our institutions, our democracy. all he wants is power and the tragedy is that what made him possible the first term and what makes him still viable is that so many people i serve with on the republican side of the aisle also as it turns out, all they care about is power, too. and notwithstanding that they think he is a danger, unethical, moral. they will line up behind him. they lined up behind him before. mitch mcconnell said basically there were other remedies. like prosecution lined up

again. all it is is about power. this is what has our democracy hanging by a thread. >> it's so sad to watch. i hope you will stick around for one more block. we have a 62nd break and we will be right back after that. . s s side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant... that's a different story. with the chase ink card, we got up and running in no time. earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase with the chase ink business unlimited card. make more of what's yours.

we are back with democratic congressman adam schiff. lots more to get to. tons of things that were out in the news today. there is also reporting on the new york times that a newly released transcript of an interview with the secret service agent who drove trump's vehicle on january 6th. the testimony makes trump's intentions clear, the driver says that trump never longed for the steering wheel. i've read the parts of your report that you all put out. you make clear that there are lots of people who testified. what you are reporting on is what his intentions were. some of your republican colleagues are suggesting that this disputes cassidy hutchinson's testimony.

what you make of that? >> here is the thing that i think that is undisputed. trump wanted to go to the capital while this insurrection was going on. well people marched, he wanted to go and be there with him -- them. and he was irate about not being able to go. there is some debate about how irate he was. did he lunge for the wheel or did he just act a rate or -- cassidy hutchinson's testimony is what she was told by others. >> it was secondhand, she said. >> the question is if there is a conflict with what she was told, why was the person who told her this -- were they being truthful or untruthful? that is the question. it goes to the credibility of this other witness than it does cassidy hutchinson. >> the intention is the thing that should be alarming. the intention of the president of the united states. i wanted to ask about intel

briefings. you know what is in these documents and how important it is. i know you said they should be dumbed down. i think they were when he was president if i remember correctly. but he did not get them in 2021. there was a decision not to give them to him if i am recalling correctly in the same capacity. couldn't they do that now? didn't they do that now? >> you know, we've never had a situation where the candidate for president is also under indictment for their negligent handling or worse, obstruction of an investigation and classified information. there is this tradition. my guess is what they will do is they will give him everything, but they will make sure that nothing in that briefing would be a problem in terms of sources and methods. they will have to assume anything they tell him, he will shoot off his mouth about and when they shoot it off, it might be to the russian ambassador, and anyone else walking down the street, may

show photos on his phone or who knows what. they know his track record. they will be very careful. the problem is that our allies and other sources, if they think what they give us may be shared with him, then they're not going to give us information. >> of course. if you are our allies, you don't want to go to him at all. wouldn't you want president biden to just say i'm sorry, you can't get it. your under. >> the administration will be careful and they will have to continue reassuring our allies. they're worried anyways because there is the risk that trump could be successful. whatever they're sure now whether it's given during the briefing or not, he might have access to. that damage is already done. the only way our allies will have comfort is when he is finally defeated again and the republican party, not willing to part company with him because he is a liar, unethical, immoral and the rest of that. not even willing to part

company if he is a convicted felon. they keep losing with donald trump. they need to move on. only when the republican party does move on, i think, will our allies finally have confidence that america is really back. >> i could talk about national security or an hour but i want to ask you about politics. he won a primary against two formidable candidates. what did you learn or what do you think people should learn about that race or what message resonated. people think of california as a very loose state, but it's also very diverse. a lot of different people and different viewpoints. >> you know, it's also very pragmatic, like the country. they're looking for people that can get things done. they do want a senator who will take on big fights when it's necessary to protect our democracy, our rights and our freedoms. reproductive freedom among others. they also want someone who will get things done and deliver. i was fascinated by joe biden said that he released a week ago. he mentioned two points in the

ad. he gets things done and he will protect our rights and freedoms . this is exactly what he ran on. it's a good message for democrats around the country. we will protect our rights and freedoms but we are also going to get things done. >> absolutely, people care about that. it's on the mind of lots of americans. things for coming to the studio. i really appreciate it. congressman dan goldman joins me with his reaction to a key witness in the mar-a-lago documents case speaking out today on camera. then i will talk to the journalist whose tik-tok about senator katie brett went viral. her response to the state of the union. we will be right back after the break. break. ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements.

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when it comes to criticizing joe biden, republicans and right-wing media have developed kind of a favorite crush they like to lean on. joe biden is old. they've stated many times in the show, the man is 81 years old. that's just a fact. here's the thing with all the right-wing attacks about his age. they're not at all consistent. ever since he took office, folks have openly questioned his cognitive ability, frequently questioning actually was running the white house and asking tough questions like how sleepy is bb joe yet at the same time, when they are trying to accuse him of mysterious

unproven corruption he is suddenly a smooth operator and keen mastermind. one of the big guys as they say. sprawling criminal fiend. those seem like hard things to square. how is sleepy joe overseeing a massive criminal scheme? how is that possible? over the last month we've seen another round of whiplash after the special counsel investigating joe biden's handling of the support information releases final report about joe biden's handling of classified documents. some of what he found was definitely embarrassing for the president but he also cleared biden of wrongdoing. even specifically comparing how his actions were patently different from trump's accusations. huge differences. the tribe appointed prosecutor did leave a big old gift for republicans and fox news. he moved that's hardly uncommon for prosecutors and special councils. he chose to editorialize about biden's memory, which of course is parked in a lot frenzy on

the right. >> the white house is on defense over a damning report highlighting serious concerns about president biden's mental fitness. >> he just doesn't have what it takes to be commander-in-chief. >> clearly there is evidence of severe memory loss, confusion, mental impairment. >> i don't think joe could be a walmart greeter. there's a time to consider invoking the 25th amendment and we don't need to settle for a weak, frail cognitive mass is the president of our great country. >> couldn't be a walmart greeter. more wild speculation from a bunch of people who probably never been in a room with joe biden and certainly don't have a medical degree that i'm aware of. but then a twist. biden delivered the state of the union address and suddenly was not so sleepy. >> tonight, america saw what say a very different joe biden. i might call him jacked up joe. that was beyond bizarre at

times. >> amped up, jacked up last night. he spoke fiercely and aggressively. he was a cantankerous kind of combat ready guy. >> i'm not a doctor but they are giving him something. all of a sudden, this guy is on it. one speed or something. to dismiss it or something like he is definitely clean. he should in a cup. >> first is to sleepy. then his jacked up enough to need a drug test. what are we doing here, guys? tomorrow when robert heard testifies on capitol hill, about we will be right back to the joe biden is old sleepy joe part of this never-ending loop and since dr. heard is such an expert at mental acuity, i want republicans on the judiciary committee to know that they are well within the rights to ask about all of this. >> they rated my house in florida at mar-a-lago. the rated. they had no reason to.

for electricity to iraq. ukraine and russia would be fighting. putin, i know him very well. by far the most disgraceful part of joe biden's service. that's why they're working as an enforcement. and only a guy named me. >> you need captions because it's so hard to understand what the heck he is talking about. the real story here is that the current president was cleared in his classified documents case and the former president still faces 32 criminal counts of willful national defense withholding information. falls statements and two counts of altering and destroying, mutilating or concealing an object or record. that's the mouthful.

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why he did not charge joe biden. when they do, i want you to remember that none of them seem at all concerned with trump's far more egregious classified documents case. today worker at mar-a-lago involved in that case has come forward. he told cnn he is cooperating with investigators and that he does not believe this case is a witch hunters donald trump would have us believe. butler is referenced as a trump employee five in the indictment by special counsel jack smith. today he knowingly helped trump's fully deliver classified boxes of mar-a-lago to transplant in june 2022. >> what happened is what left me for me. got the airport. i loaded all the luggage i had and she had a bunch of boxes. >> you noticed that he had boxes? >> yeah. there were boxes that were in the indictment. the white bankers boxes. that's what i remember learning.

>> did you have any time, any idea at the time that there was potentially u.s. national security secrets in those boxes? >> no clue. i had no clue. we were just taking them out of the escalade, piling them up. i remember they were all stacked on top of each other and we were lifting them up. >> in their indictment, they say that those mar-a-lago workers were loading boxes of documents onto trump's new jersey bound jet. on the very same day, trump's lawyers told the government they handed everything over. this congressman in new york is a former federal prosecutor who joins us now. thanks for taking the time this evening. let me start by getting your reaction to what we're hearing from this witness. when you the details before but it's different to hear him on camera i think. how valuable is what he is saying to prosecutors in this case interview? >> brian butler, i think, is going to be important because he is going to provide really a lot of corroboration to so much

of the other evidence. he's going to be able to narrate a little bit of all of the obstruction of justice. he's going to talk about asking very odd questions about the surveillance tapes. there are a lot of little nooks and crannies that he's going to fill in. and he clearly is quite open and honest about esau, what his role was, and he did it unwittingly, it appears i think it will be a powerful and credible witness for the prosecution. >> and guessing you would not recommend key witnesses doing television interviews to be used by the prosecution. but given this is delayed, he worked there for 20 years. he seems willing to go out there and talk about what he's seen. i'm asking you to put your political hat on. how important do you think this is in terms of the telling of the story of what happened in

this case? >> yeah, look. i certainly spent 10 years as a prosecutor where i did not want a witness to say anything to anyone else because you just don't want to create more of a record where small missteps are small different details could trip you up. in this case, donald trump's only defense is in the court of public opinion. i think that it's very important for brian butler and other witnesses to come forward publicly to explain what they know and what their role is. we are going to need to have brian butler's and former trump cabinet secretaries and former trump intelligence officials and former trump national security officials. everybody is going to need to come out and publicly explain why donald trump is such a risk to our democracy, to our national security, to our global security. with brian butler doing this, it takes a tremendous amount of courage, because he will get a serious amount of vitriol,

threats, most likely. that many of us get. but he is otherwise a private citizen and has not signed up for this, so this is a very bold and admirable, courageous move by mr. butler. >> this is quite a newsweek i think as we all know. he is testifying tomorrow. i was curious what your take on what the democratic strategy should be there. it's clear that republicans want to bring up the age issue. they asked why biden was not also treated the same way in their view as trump. ludicrous. what do you think the democrats should do here? >> locke, i am concerned that he resigned the day before, that he has been prepping apparently with trump orbit people. he was appointed by donald trump. the reason i am concerned by that is that if he were still an employee at the department of justice, he would be obligated to adhere to the rules, regulations and restrictions placed upon him by

the department of justice. as a private citizen, he does not have these same obligations. it is strange that he would resign the night before or the day before his public testimony as a trump appointed u.s. attorney who was then appointed to be special counsel by merrick garland. and he is being prepped by trump officials or trump associates. this feels much more political than a special counsel should otherwise be. that's what i saw in the entire report. not just the gratuitous age references. not just his editorializing about joe biden writing books because he thought he was presidential material, which is purely subjective editorializing by the special counsel. but as a former prosecutor, that report does not contain the factual basis to make the conclusions that he makes.

even though they decided not to charge joe biden because he would never be able to prove that case to a jury, he impugned him by using the same language in the statute, by willfully retaining classified information is what he said, which is what the law prohibits. so he did not charge him but said that he did the conduct and the evidence he recounts does not support that. i think there will be a couple of things that the democrats hit on. i hope some of my colleagues will hit upon that. many of my colleagues will hit upon the gratuitous editorializing. but also he violated a number of doj rules and regulations. you know, pining about things that are unrelated to his core task, which was to determine whether or not joe biden violated any criminal laws and should be indicted. there's a good reason why you speak in indictments and not in reports like this because there is no way for joe biden to

cross-examine him, to cross- examine witnesses or in any way to defend himself against these accusations. i'm looking forward to my colleagues from the judiciary committee who really know their stuff. they are going to challenge him, i hope, and expect on a number of different things in the report. >> want to watch lots of questions out there. you alluded to exactly what the aspirations are. we will see. congressman dan gold, thank you as always for joining me this evening. an independent journalist took it upon himself to fact check senator katie brett about a misleading story she told during her state of the union response. jonathan katz is standing by in the studio enjoins me next after a quick break. ick break. including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection,

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by now unless you're living under a rock, you might have heard that alabama senator katie brett shared an incredibly misleading story in her response to the state of the union about a woman she met

at the southern border who was tragically the victim of human trafficking and rape. it was clear that she was telling the story in an effort to criticize president biden's border policies in the state of the union. it just did not seem to add up in the moment. as jonathan katz said it was not hard to find the identity of the victim and from there for it to begin to unravel. >> this is the testimony to congress from 2015 about her experiences in mexico. you scroll down. you see it took place between 2004 and 2008. in 2004 and 2008, the president was george w. bush. the vice president was cheney. none of that matters here because these events did not happen in the united states. they did not take place in the united states or even near the border. they took place in mexico. >> to recap, he found that this

horrific crime did not happen on joe biden's watch. many years before under a different president. not in the united states. this went pretty viral. now the senator is trying to clean up the mess. >> did you mean to give the impression that this horrible story happened on president biden's watch? >> no, shannon. to be clear the story that you relate is not something that's happened under the biden administration. that particular person. >> i very clearly said that i spoke to a woman who told me about when she was traffic when she was 12. so i did not say a teenager. i did not say a young woman. a grown woman. a woman when she was traffic when she was 12. >> so yes, when confronted with the facts, she did acknowledge that she knew the truth, but she is not admitting that she distorted the story. clearly in an effort to score political points. it was her response to the state of the union.

saying that the audience should have inferred that it had nothing to do with joe biden somehow despite her very strong implication that it did. so what about the woman whose tragic story katie brett tells to millions of people. how does she feel about all of this? he is a pretty important player here. last night we found out. >> hardly ever cooperate with politicians because it seems to me that they only want an image. i think she should first take into account these things before telling a story of that magnitude. >> she went through something horrific. nobody -- question about that. how it was described is just not accurate. she chose to exploit the story to score political points and used misleading facts to support her narrative about resident biden and the border. jonathan katz on tik-tok by the way. they have good things. he joins me now to talk about immigration and conflict. i suspect that's why he knew something was up here.

he is the author of two books. the big truck that went by. how the world came to save haiti and left behind its disaster and gangsters of capitalism. the making and breaking of america's empire. when i was watching your video, i thought to myself, how did he figure this out? walk-through with us -- you have covered immigration and migration for years. that might be a core part of the answer. when you are watching matt, how did something that feel right to you? >> something just seemed off about it. maybe it is because i've been covering this stuff for so many years that these things operate on a more instinctive level. but i think part of it was that she was getting very specific and lurid details about part of the story but leaving the most important parts of the story vague. no question about where this happened, what the name of the woman was, what country it happened then. the first thing i was wondering was what happened to the woman

after. did she get asylum? the good asylum case. >> the case in some ways, and her intention. >> just started googling. >> he did contact her of course and her team, should say. what was that back and forth like? or do the respondent awkward >> who did not respond at all. past releases the other had trouble to the border with was out. >> i will admit as much as it is disappointing and distressing all of the things that was so misleading, has it been painful to watch or try to unravel from it? >> yes. >> watching the fox news interview, she seems to be implying that she wasn't trying to say this had anything to do with biden's border policy. you buy that? >> no. she makes a sandwich with a feeling that i don't think i'm supposed to say on tv. she starts off by saying this

is president biden's border policy. then she puts in the anecdote where she takes without permission. apparently to the chagrin of the women she took it from. as someone who has reported from the little countries in crisis and a lot of developed countries, the global south, and very familiar with the dynamic of people coming from the united states, richer countries, elite classes. in taking somebody's story and using it to aggrandize themselves or that might be part of what got my attention on some level. then she ends it by bringing it back to president biden's border policy. the spokesman said to other people -- did not respond to me, but said to others that the story was 100% correct. maybe you meant on the level of individual sentences. worked on the individual clause. had some nugget of truth in it. then in the conditional, we would be horrified if this thing happened today third

world country using our time. but this is the united states. that's -- i don't know you get away from she is clearly implying she is saying straight out. >> i'm shocked they did not contact the woman. i've been involved in a lot of speeches were you're talking about a lot of individuals. got a minute left and i should talk about this for 20 minutes. what's the thing? you been covering immigration. it becomes so politicized. what's the one thing that people say or speculate about this issue, that you just -- drives you crazy because it is so wrong? >> the biggest thing is the victims of the dysfunction of the backlog of closing ports of entry and forcing people to go through smuggling routes are immigrants, migrants. those are the people who are suffering. and you know, the way that it's talked about in washington, the way republicans talk about it, the way a lot of liberals talk about it is that the ultimate victims of the american people.

that it's your children, mr. and mrs. america, and these immigrants are coming for. there is invasion. it's just a perversion. the people suffering are people who were fleeing the global south, fleeing prices, fleeing global warming, trying to make better lives for themselves and their families and their being demonized and webinars in our politics here and it hurts them. >> such an important point. i really appreciate you. doing that tik-tok. thanks for your time and incredible reporting. if you thought about a manipulated picture seen around the world. we are back after a quick break. k break. if you're living with hiv, imagine being good to go without daily hiv pills. good to go binge-watch. good to go out even later. with cabenuva, there's no pausing for daily hiv pills. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete,

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so you are probably aware of a controversy swirling across the pond. it involves a member of the british royal family, rampant speculation about her health and a certain photo. there are more serious things happening in the world. we are talking about them tonight. like wars raging in the petrilli of our democracy. but this is management at the highest levels of government. i'm stunned by how they managed

this. while there are no exact steps to ensuring a pr nightmare goes away, there just aren't, there are some basic rules. don't worry to get all the information out at one time if you can. we may be getting a master class right now from one of the world's most prominent and enduring institutions on what not to do. for those who are not following, back in january, the palace announced that princess kate underwent abdominal surgery and would not be returning to public duties until after easter. that was about all they were willing to share. you need a medical degree to know that a month-long recovery usually signals things serious. that lack of transparency triggered a flood of conspiracy theories. like crazy. triggering the notoriously aggressive british press corps. osha remains out of sight for months, the speculation intensifies and the palace

refuses to offer any new details that may temper the situation. until yesterday when a photo featuring kate and her three children was posted to social media. celebrating mother's day in the uk. it was also supposed to show the world that she is fine. nothing to worry about here. hours after the photo ran in countless publications, global photo agencies took the rare step of pulling it. this is a very rare step. this morning, the palace attempted damage control by acknowledging the photo was manipulated. but not sharon any new information or any additional information at all really. i have no idea what will happen next but i have no idea or any extra information about the fact of princess kate's health. but i knew no -- do know that they made the significantly worse than it needs to be. perhaps too naove