walking, everyone. we begin with this breaking news. in the last hour the white house announced president biden has signed a major spending bill that will avert a partial government shutdown on friday. the senate passed the legislation just hours before the current funding deal was set to expire. congress now has just two weeks

to address the remaining six appropriation bills, that includes contentious issues like funding for the pentagon and the department of homeland security. welcome, everyone. let go now to the decision 2024 and the tale of two vastly different candidates and almost identical geographical locations. president joe biden and former president donald trump both campaigning in the swing state of georgia today at the unofficial start of the general election season. biden will speak in atlanta this evening. his campaign is also launching a new ad in georgia, a critical swing state. arizona, michigan, north carolina, nevada, pennsylvania, and wisconsin. and in it, biden acknowledges his age as he targets young voters. more on that coming up for you. last night in his first speech since the state of the union address, he told voters in pennsylvania about his a compliment on jobs. >> 15 million new jobs in three years. that is a record in american

history. unemployment at a 50 year low. 800,000 new manufacturing jobs and counting. >> trump, meanwhile, will speak at a rally in marjorie taylor greens district in a few hours from now. on his way he may drive past dnc sponsored billboards like the one you are seeing right there. yesterday he welcomed hungary's prime minister to mar-a-lago, with the hard-line conservative leader. >> there is nobody that is better, smarter, or a better leader than victor. >> trump also posted a $91 million bond in the e. jean carroll case. we are going to talk to melissa

murray about that in a few minutes are now. we have reporters and analysts in place covering all these new developments for you, and we are going to begin with aaron gilchrist, with the president in atlanta, georgia. >> reporter: set to receive major endorsements here in atlanta today. meanwhile, just 70 miles away, former president trump will be rallying his base, trying to win over voters in a state he narrowly lost four years ago. with the general election effectively underway, president biden launching his post state of the union tour in the philadelphia suburbs on friday with the first lady, telling the crowd democracy is at stake. >> above all, i see a country for all americans. future for all americans. a presidency for all americans. because i believe in america, i believe in you. >> reporter: the campaign kickoff after the president's fiery address to the nation, part of his report of the state of the union. >> the state of our union is strong and getting stronger.

>> reporter: and energized and feisty pitcher re-election. voters here in georgia reacting to the president's speech, saying he showed he is ready for the general election ahead. >> super energetic. stay organized. kept delivering punch after punch. he said the things i wanted to hear him say. >> he might be a little elderly, but he is saying, and he is a kind man. the other one, he's old, too. but he's crazy. and dangerous. >> reporter: the presumptive republican nominee, former president donald trump on friday having a photo op with the hungarian prime minister, widely seen as one of europe's biggest autocrats and embraced as a model for far right conservatives in the u.s. the mac a controversial figure, because he says this is the way -- >> at the same time, trump dealing with legal troubles, filing an appeal in the e. jean carroll case where she won and $83 million verdict. tonight, trump returned to georgia for the first time since turning himself into fulton county jail last august on charges related to the 2020

presidential election. trump and biden set to stump in the crucial swing state the biden narrowly won in 2020, holding dueling rallies for key georgia voting blocs physically just miles apart, with president biden answering trump's challenge to a face-off. >> tonight, three political action committees representing asian, black, and latino groups will endorse president biden's re-election. with that endorsement comes $30 million in support and more visibility in these key groups the president will need to win re-election. alice? >> thanks, for that. notably in that pennsylvania stop, the president also taking aim at his predecessor. >> donald trump and the republicans are trying to take away our freedoms. and that is not an exaggeration. guess what? we will not let him. the republicans and donald trump want to pass a national ban on the right to choose.

hear me loud and clear. this will not happen on my watch. >> honesty, decency, fairness, equality, treating people fairly. that is the american creed. donald trump sees the story differently. >> let's bring in peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the new york times, esteemed msnbc political analyst. welcome. peter, in your new article you called the last two days the start of a month of campaign style barnstorming. what tone is the president setting for the rest of this election season, and contrast that with the donald trump's plan to get off of legal entitlement? >> well, i think he set an aggressive tone from the start. part of that is aimed at picking on donald trump, and part of that is aimed at reassuring his own supporters and the disenchanted supporters of 2020 who have left him for the moment. he is trying to both tell the

democrats who are nervous about it, about his age, about his stamina, that he had a lot of vigor left. he has a history, he has fight, and he is ready to take it on. he is trying to convince those democrats and independents who may have drifted away, who don't support him, who tell posters they are not sold on him for this year that he has what it takes to be the president and to remind them of what they didn't like about donald trump in 2020. >> you know, based on what we have heard from the president in the last several days, the approach to campaigning, does it feel different from what he has been doing up to this point? >> absolutely. it is a bit more vigorous, as peter just laid out. i think it is important for host to layout the successes of the ministration over the last four years. it is also important to understand and layout the stakes of this particular election. some people believe that folks have disconnected, and there is a type of exhaustion with

regards to trump. but remember, he opens the state of the union with an assault on freedom and democracy at home and abroad. so i think it is really important for him to highlight and underline the danger that donald trump presents, that this is not a typical election. at the same time, highlight the fact that he is addressing this kitchen table issues that every day, ordinary people wanted to address. >> it's taken a little farther into content and tone. i'm curious, your assessment of how the president addressed his country's most pressing issues during the state of the union speech. did he successfully get his message across? >> i think he got across what he wanted to get across, which, again, was the idea that he is still the president, he is in command, he is not some sort of an enfeebled old man. he has strong views about these issues and he's going to take the fight, not just to trump, but to the people in the room. he was very confrontational with the republicans sitting in front of him in a way i have not seen a president due at the state of the union and quite that way. a lot of state of the unions are much more about, they are partisan, they have partisan

moments, obviously. but broadly speaking, a president tries to get up there and say what we can do together if we put our minds to it, he was much more in their face in a way that we have not seen before. again, i think it is because he is frustrated by republican obstruction on the ukraine aid for israel aid, on the border deal that was negotiated by a bipartisan group of senators. and he is trying to basically make the case that harry truman made in 1948, that they have a congress that can deal with it, so therefore voters ought to keep that in mind when they go to the polls. >> so, the white house certainly went into this state of the union knowing that the president needed to offset the concerns about his age by projecting vitality and a firm grip on the many critical issues that face this country, which he did. from a campaign perspective, was image even more important than content? because we are here eight months before election day. how many really remember content in any state of the union in january, february, march whenever they might be

given all the way to november? >> you know, americans have a short attention span. we know that. we know that the state of the union will have an immediate impact, whether it is a kind of onslaught of criticism depending on how successful orb how bad it is, i suppose. but i think it is really important for president biden to do both throughout. we are here for the long haul. this is going to the longest presidential election we have had, at least in my lifetime. i think in history. so i think it's important for him to really emphasize and do it with them and vitality. when you leave the state of the union, look. he called for legislation around ivf, he talked about pre- k, he talked about increasing pell grants. the days of trickle-down economics are over. calling for 21% corporate tax rate hikes. there was such policy issues there that attracts the base,

at the same time he did it in a way that peter laid out, going after those republicans, putting down the mantle, as it were, showing he has interviewed a fight, which is important. >> yeah, and adding to that, the president made the issue of democracy and the threat to it a main focal point on thursday. let's take a listen to part of that. >> my lifetime has taught me to embrace freedom and democracy. a future based on core values that have defined america. i see a future where defending democracy you don't diminish it. i see a future where restoring the right to choose and protect our freedoms, not take them away. i will always be president for all americans, because i believe in america. >> you know, i'm curious how important you think that message was, particularly against the backdrop of donald trump's meeting with hungarian autocrat prime minister viktor

orban just hours later. >> yeah, yesterday in pennsylvania i was in the room when the president addressed his rally and he specifically mentioned it, he said do you know who that guy down in mar- a-lago is meeting with? he is meeting with a guy who favors dictatorship. an interesting thing to say about a nato ally, but probably pretty accurate. i think his point to the larger audience watching at home is that donald trump is not someone who is committed to democracy. remember, donald trump is that he is for the termination of the constitution in order to return him to office without waiting for an election. he has had his campaign is about retribution. he has made clear time and time again that he does not observe the norms and traditions that other presidents have. and what president biden is trying to do is remind those voters who are disappointed with him for various reasons, for his age were his relation with the border, that there is something larger at stake here in his view. and to see if he can get them back on board. >> yeah. does the micro see message resonate, when you juxtapose it with the trump orban meeting?

does the contrast actually reach undecided voters, and specifically what might reach independence beyond the democracy message? >> i think so. when you operationalize the contrast, what does it look like? it looks like we are defending freedom, they want to take freedom away. the freedom for a woman to choose, the right to vote. we can go down the line. there is an assault on freedom at home by the very forces that donald trump represents. so i think it is really important to kind of put forward that broad frame. so there is not only the kind of concrete contrast between the policy that trump embraces and the policies that president biden is putting forward, but also the historical connection. he is trying to make that move that lincoln and frederick douglass made, to read the declaration of independence and the constitution. that ethical mandate, which he translates as honesty, decency,

dignity, and equality as essential to the american creed. donald trump is on the opposite side of those values and commitment. that is important, particularly when we talk about the assault on our freedoms at home. >> both of you please stay with me while i talk about gaza in just a few minutes. but first, everything you wanted to know about donald trump's bond but were afraid to ask. like where did he get that money? we have all the answers. we are back in 60 seconds. ink business unlimited card. make more of what's yours. an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement. ♪♪ we're building a better postal service. all parts working in sync to move your business forward. with a streamlined shipping network. and new, high-speed processing and delivery centers.

for more value. more reliability. and more on-time deliveries. the united states postal service is built for how you business. and how you business is with simple, affordable and reliable shipping. usps ground advantage. now to big developments in the trial of donald trump in his d.c. january 6th criminal case. the supreme court has set a date of april 25th to hear his claims of absolute residential immunity. in the mar-a-lago classified documents case, judge cannon set a surprise hearing for this thursday, march 14th on two of his motions to dismiss that indictment. and trump has posted in the sum of $91.6 million that bond and has filed notice of appeal in the defamation case filed by new york writer e. jean carroll. joining me now, melissa murray,

new york university law professor and director of the birnbaum women's legal center. now msnbc legal analyst. she is also co-author of the trump indictment, the historic charging documents . all indicating you are a very busy lady, and i thank you for your time with me. so what does it mean that trump posted a bond, and how much money did he actually have to put up? >> so, what it means to post a bond is if you have a major judgment like the judgment that e. jean carroll has secured against donald trump, you have to pay that out. trump is going to appeal, but in order to proceed with those appeals he has to show that he has the money to satisfy that judgment if he is unsuccessful in that appeal. typically a bond is something that is offered by a bond holding company or an insurance company that secures or guarantees the amount of the

judgment for a premium. so, the person seeking the bond has to pay maybe 1-3% above and beyond the cost of the bond and secure it with collateral. so this raises a number of questions for donald trump. where did he get the money to procure the bond as the bond collateral? did he put up buildings? which buildings? what was the value of those buildings? did he get another person to underwrite the bond room? who is that person to whom he is now beholden just as he is beholden to this insurance company that has underwritten the bond? there are still a lot of questions, but what it means for e. jean carroll is that even if donald trump is unsuccessful in this appeal, she is going to get paid . >> okay, good on that. let's move to donald trump planning immunity in both of his federal court cases. jack smith in a new response shreds trumps immunity claims in the classified documents case, calling them frivolous and outlandish. do you think smith's filing is a preview of what he plans to argue before the supreme court in april, even though there are two different cases here? >> so, they are two different cases, and they deal with two different moments in donald trump's tenure as a president

and as a former president. so, the events of january 6th, clearly during the course or the end of donald trump's presidency, whereas the mar-a- lago documents case, most of the action there takes place after donald trump is no longer president. that is a really important question for the issue of presidential immunity, because again, the idea that presidents enjoy immunization from legal liability is really because they need to have the time and not be distracted by legal processes while they are actually functioning is present. so the claims of immunity are not as strong in circumstances where the action took place after the presidency was over. donald trump is arguing, though, that in the mar-a-lago case, the decision to send the documents occurred during his presidency and were part of his duties as president. frankly different there, but i think the arguments about mar-a- lago are more outlandish than the ones that january 6th, although i would also say some of the january 6th immunity

arguments are also quite outlandish, as well. >> okay. so we know judge cannon is going to hear arguments on two specific trump motions to dismiss. based on claims of unconstitutional vagueness and claims in the presidential records act, talk about these because of these. wire arguments necessary, instead of the judge simply ruling on the filing? the mac so, a judge can rule on the filings. i think in a case like this one at such an unprecedented and important nature, this may be something that you want to do in an open hearing where other people, including the media, can participate or at least observe what is going on. you could hear oral arguments from both sides and you can render a decision probably in a separate writing that occurs afterwards. sometimes judges will issue a ruling from the bench, i think that is very unlikely in this case. but certainly she could've done this on the filing front, given the nature of these motions and the unprecedented nature of the charges against a former president, it is worthwhile to make this more of a public

outing. >> unconstitutional vagueness, with capital letters, is that a common refrain? >> it is a defense that a defendant can offer. typically the constitutional doctrine of vagueness means that in order to prosecute someone and convict them for a crime, you have to be really clear about what the nature of the crime is. as a matter of due process, it cannot be for defendants to guess whether the conduct is or is not permissible. donald trump is arguing that in sequestering these documents at mar-a-lago but it was perhaps vague with the president records act required. i think that is a harder argument to make, given that so many presidents seem to have figured it out and complied with that over time, with the exception, of course, of this president. >> the supreme court april 25th eight on immunity is raising questions about whether the timing could be a win for trump. here is a look at the timeline. ruled against trump on december

1st of last year. 10 days later jack smith already asked and the supreme court agreed to consider fast tracking a decision on immunity. but it took another 11 days for the supreme court to decline that. then after the d.c. federal appeals court rejected the immunity claim and trouble peeled for delay of his trial, another 16 days passed before the supreme court agreed to put it on the schedule in april. on the last possible day to hear arguments in this term. how do you interpret the timing here? >> i'm going to be really straightforward about this. there is no question here, alex, that the supreme court does not want to be in the business of deciding this immunity question. they have effectively given donald trump a de facto victory on immunity. they have delayed the consideration of this until well after donald trump has been argued, has been briefed, jack smith asked in december to skip over the d.c. circuit was read a very methodical opinion that the supreme court would accept. they did not do that, they

instead slated for the last day of the october term. and that is when they're going to hear it. that means it is very unlikely that this trial is even going to go. whether you are for or against donald trump, you certainly have an interest in ensuring that this entire question is resolved, and whether donald trump is or is not a convicted felon is a question of the american people have an answer to. the supreme court as a passionately effectively denied the american people an opportunity to have that question settled in the court of law and instead led to the court of public opinion. and that is sad for donald trump, because anyone seeking immunity would want a swift revolution of that question, because of the program of being under a criminal indictment. if that is improper, you would want to know about it right away. the supreme court has denied both the public, donald trump, and jack smith the opportunity to resolve that question quickly and efficiently in a way should be. >> it is asked ordinary. thinking back to bush and gore

in 2000, and how much more quickly, with great expediency, comparatively so, the supreme court ruled there. thank you so much for that. coming up next, peter baker will join me again to talk about gaza and whether there is any chance of a cease-fire agreement this weekend. sleep more deeply. and wake up rejuvenated. with purple's new mattresses. fall asleep 20% faster. have less aches and pains and sleep uninterrupted. right now, save up to $400 off mattresses at purple. visit purple.com or a store near you today.

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uh-oh. good bunnies. ahh! the biting campaign is dropping $30 million on a six week add, inciting young voters and voters of color across states yesterday. the attic is a glimpse of how the campaign seeks to tackle

the conversation around biden's age, a major concern among those key voting groups. msnbc's political analyst, peter baker. give me a reaction to one of the very first ads were biden accepts his age and housing advocate you think it is for the biting campaign to have a dwarf republican rival, which also includes the one rival left standing, donald trump. >> right, we are going to see probably the most expensive presidential campaign in history, and i am just delighted that it is on the democratic side. i think this particular ad is important, but i also want to insist that the issue around president biden's age is not simply about whether or not he is capable. it is also about a generational divide. so it is important that he says that yes, i am an old guy. but i get things done. but it is also important for him to connect to this generation that seems to believe that somehow he has lost

the sense of what is really important in this moment. so there is a generational divide that he has to bridge. i am not sure this particular ad will do it, but i'm sure with that war chest he can do it. >> i just spoke to melissa murray about that $91.6 million bond that trump posted. not only is the campaign way behind in fundraising, he personally has to come up with 454 million more march 25th. what are expectations for that massive amount? might he paid himself, or will he secured under bond? what are you hearing? >> i think that would deplete all of the known caches that he has. we have to be careful and say it is somewhat opaque. i think therefore it is likely to find other finance the way he did here. through some sort of a deal with an insurance company or something like that. i'm not an expert on how that

works, but i am not going to imagine he would simply write a check up front if he can avoid it. he certainly doesn't want to. a large chunk of his complete wealth, as we understand it, might require the finances. anything he can do to avoid it, he would like to do. it is remarkable how entangled his personal issues are with the campaign at the height of this moment. not only does he have this half billion dollars worth of civil liabilities for sexual abuse and fraud, but obviously these four criminal cases that are mixing and matching of campaign with his own personal issues. something we have never seen a president before. i agree, i think it shapes everything we are going to see. it is remarkable to think about. >> yes. to watch him try to maneuver through it and then use those things in a campaign promotion of some sort. he is able to do that. let me ask you about the

international front, where the president addressed the devastation in gaza on thursday, rolling out his plan to provide or aid for the people suffering there. he is facing intense criticism from within the democratic party for his continued support of israel. was president biden able to appease those who are pushing for a lasting cease-fire? >> i'm not sure. i am one of those people pushing for a lasting cease-fire. i know he had to try to thread the needle, but at the same time you see in the washington post that the u.s. military department of defense is engaged in over 100 separate military sales quietly to israel. then you see the headline in the new york times today about biden with bombs in schools. there has to be a much more vigorous and much more forceful and counter with netanyahu. i just echoed our former colleague in this instance. i worry, if democracy is at state with the selection, why risk it on behalf of netanyahu? that seems to me a very strange

calculation. he has to figure out how to do this, because this is the defining issue, i think, for many young americans in this moment. and i don't know if he found the right balance yet. >> the way you said that, talking about threading the needle, absolutely. did president biden gain some favor with woman rashida tlaib who has said she may not support them in november after what happened with gaza , or is it too little too late? how do you think things might change in the eight months between now and the general election? >> he is been critical of the president's policy, and he did say that he found the presence work in the state of the union to be a shift in tone. he said he was encouraged by that. he said he was testing during the speech with others in michigan while the protest against the present policy has been most acute, and found that they also noticed a change in tone. but the change in tone does not necessarily mean a change in policy. the president has been very

firm about this. he believes that israel has a right to defend itself, and he is not going to condition weapons to them on anything the people want him to condition them on. at the same time he is obviously pushing prime minister netanyahu to do more to protect civilian casualties, to protect civilians against t's and do more to get humanitarian aid in. it is important to remember hamas, not israel, walked away from the table on these negotiations for a temporary cease-fire. israel agreed to a deal with the united states trying to broker a six-week temporary cease-fire to allow the hostages out and hamas said no. but you have heard the president say after the speech and that hot mic moment where he was talking with senator bennett from colorado, he plans to have a come to jesus meeting with prime minister netanyahu. what that means, we don't know. we can argue about the theology meeting of having a come to jesus meeting with the head of israel, but more importantly, the question is what would that entail?

how he can make it that he would have a come to jesus meeting or whatever you call it with prime minister netanyahu. it is not just prime minister netanyahu. the truth is that israeli political spectrum, left and right, is pretty firmly and consistently for a military strike against hamas. there is not a lot of difference between them on the particular topic. is not just him being a stubborn prime minister, although he is, of course, but it is the political establishment. >> i can actually pick up on the question you asked him, or asking what he think about a come to jesus meeting or what that entails. maybe i'll do both. anyway, good to see you. thank you so much, peter and eddie. you know it, i know it, and so do lots of voters. next, what americans are thinking and saying as we marked the unofficial shift to the general election. e general that means panoramic.

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the unofficial shift to the general election is in full swing. today president biden and former president trump were in georgia hosting tooling events ahead of the states presidential primary on tuesday. georgia is a key swing state, which primarily biden won in 2020. is it better to play an important role in deciding the election this november. nbc is at biden's event in east atlanta where tonight the president will be continuing his post state of the union campaign blitz. welcome, who is president biden trying to reach there, and what is the message?

>> reporter: is really the battleground voters here in the state. the moderates, the dependence, and of course the voters of color that the president views as being critical to the democratic space. at the event that he is expected to be endorsed by three groups revisiting the black community and the latino community. those groups donating $20 million to mobilize their members out of the election to try to boost president biden stances. the message selling here tonight is one we heard at the state of the union, establish a contrast between himself and the former president, saying that he will protect rights like access to abortion and ivf treatments, and comparing that to the former presidents touting his role in overturning roe v wade. you also have the president start to lean into his age a little bit more. i heard you talking about this earlier. framing that is being more of a positive, talking about the experience that it has given him and all he has accomplished in light of his age. and i've got to tell you, the

conversations i have been having with voters in east atlanta, they really resonate. take a look at some of my conversations. >> its wisdom, right? perspective. when he talked about being young, the youngest senator at 29, and up to now, i'm thinking god, he knows how that whole place works. the culture, he knows that operate the system, the levers to push. >> i'm afraid of what's going to happen to my granddaughter. i'm getting towards the end of my life, but my granddaughter will be 10 and i want her to live under democracy. let's face it, if the other side wins, we are not going to have a democracy anymore. >> reporter: president biden after today continuing that battleground campaign swing. he will be heading to new hampshire with stops in michigan, and you can expect them to continue to talk about the contrast between himself and his predecessor. >> thank you so much, we will see you again. meantime, this breaking news, everyone. more aid is on its way to gaza as malnutrition and dehydration begin taking lives of those suffering in the war stricken territory.

u.s. central command says it dropped over 41,000 meals and 23,000 bottles of water into northern gaza just today, as a european maritime aid cord or from cyprus to gaza could be operational as soon as this weekend. but on the eve of ramadan, hopes for an immediate cease- fire are fading after cairo could not find a deal. >> will there be a cease-fire by ramadan? >> joining me now from london, nbc's molly hunter. molly, welcome. we somewhere drops today. but what are we learning about the new efforts to bring in aid by c? >> it looks like there is a brand-new secured maritime core door that may open as early as

tomorrow, as our understanding. it is supported by the u.s., eu, and other allies. that is a real partnership between the spanish organization called open arms, and world central kitchen, of course an organization we know well. the plan, as we understand it, is that the ship, open arms, will pull a barge with 200 tons of rice and flour to an undisclosed location off the coast of gaza. pontoon boats will then bring it ashore and the world central kitchen team already in gaza is apparently constructing a dock. then they, along with other ngos, will distribute some of that aid. this comes after the u.s., and we heard from the pentagon yesterday talk about this temporary peer to get more aid into gaza. take a closer listen. >> a unique capability maintained by the department of defense, whereas u.s. army and navy forces are organized, trained, and equipped to conduct joint ship to shore operations where fixed facilities are inadequate or unavailable. simply put, they will establish a temporary offshore maritime that allows for shipping vessels to transfer cargo to other vessels, to transport and offload cargo to a temporary causeway for the delivery of humanitarian aid to gaza.

>> you hear them here basically describing the process of constructing this. he said it could take up to 60 days and require 1000 u.s. troops. very clear that there will not actually be u.s. troops on the ground inside gaza. that is not an imminent, immediate way to get aid in. the u.s. and the other national organizations are levying criticism at the u.s. today to say user leverage, convince the israeli government to let aid in by truck, by road. that is the safest and most efficient. and the last point i will make him a very strong words from the u.n. special rep for the right to food, who called these efforts, including the air drops, absurd. he called them last resort efforts that will do very little to alleviate hunger, malnutrition, and do nothing to slow down famine. alex? >> it is all very heartbreaking. thank you so much, from london. nice, former trump white house attorney ty cobb on why he helped brief against donald trump with the supreme court,

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now to another supreme court hearing in april that could slow down donald trump's january 6th trial in d.c. nine days before the immunity hearing, justices will hear arguments related to trumps charges of conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, and obstruction of an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding on january 6th. my next guest, a former trump administration lawyer has joined a group of former prosecutors and constitutional lawyers filing a decree to argue against trumps interest in that hearing. ty cobb joins right now, former trump white house counsel and former assistant attorney for the u.s. district of maryland. welcome to the broadcast, it's good to talk with you. let's get some details here. trump is not named in this

case, except for april 16th. why do you feel compelled to join this brief, and what is the point that you want to drive home to the supreme court? >> nice to speak with you, alex. the point of this brief, and the importance of this case is to help shape the laws that pertain to obstruction and official proceedings. in the case for unusual circumstances has challenged his conviction and charges with regard to the extent of that law. trying to limit it to only impairing evidence. and it is clear that back in the day when they drafted this statute, congressman intended section 15- 12 to basically be an omnibus law prohibiting obstruction of any kind, from murdering a witness to shredding documents. that would impair or obstruct

an official proceeding. the purpose of the brief here is to make sure that the courts give the full force and effect of that statute to the conduct underlined much of the january 6th activity, which did obstruct the official proceeding of the congressional proceeding that was underway with regard to the ballots. >> thank you for that explanation there. so, you worked with the trump white house for almost a year. you were there for almost a year, rather, when you are brought in to manage the molar investigation. and you said that you were directly in touch with trump on a daily basis. can you give me a sense of what you think his mind-set is, if he is trying to navigate his current legal challenges? >> i can try.

he had so many that he probably is not able to give any particular one the degree of concentration that he would like. he has to rely on so many different lawyers and so many different teams of lawyers, some of whom are quite capable, others of whom have not distinguished themselves. i think it is very difficult for him, and he is not really a strategist in that regard. so i think he is very much dependent on the lawyers. and i think that has turned out to be a problem. for two reasons, for one, the facts are terrible. his conduct is reprehensible, subject 91 felony accounts, four separate indictments, and multiple civil cases. he has lost almost half $1 billion. so it is not like this is a smooth ship. >> i'm curious what it was like to serve in the oval office under trump. what can you tell us about his

demeanor interactions with him? how did he treat you, how did he treat others? >> so, i don't go a lot into the back-and-forth between me and the former president, just because i'm always nervous and not a fan of lawyers who tell all. but for the most part, in my experience, the interaction was largely professional, largely what you would expect. there were some difficult moments, there were some other moments that were highly substantive. there were some give-and-take. and it wasn't always easy for either of us. but i think we got through it professionally, and i think the work on the so-called russian investigation went relatively smoothly, at least in terms of the interaction between the white house and the molar team.

but, you know, this is a much different battlefield that he is facing now. these are the things that he did, that he has been charged with. a grand jury has charged him in each of the four instances. there were multiple prosecutors all over the country engaged in these events. it is quite a difficult legal minefield to run the table. he does have the benefit of time , because he will be able to dismiss those if they are still on p.o. or still active once the election is over if he wins. but only if he wins. if he loses, he's going to jail. >> let's look at what he is likely to win, which is the republican nomination. if you look at the headlines in recent months about a possible trump second term, they include the plans for revenge, abortion crackdowns, many warnings to come from people who served in his ministration. and you know the man.

what does the idea of a trump return to the white house conjure up for you? will he take vengeance if he is re-elected? >> i don't think so, in the way it is being portrayed, necessarily. i am certainly not worried. but is he vengeful? sure. has he prove that? ask ron mcdaniels. it's amazing, even his supporters get canceled. he has the ability to be petty, as i think circumstances have demonstrated. but is he going to do that on a large scale? i don't think so. i think you will be much more interested in the leverage of power and the things that he can do to publish his perceived greatness in his own mind. >> one of the immediate hurdles he faces is coughing up cash for a $234 million judgment against mena new york civil trial. take a listen to his lawyer. here it is. >> we appeared before the appellate division just last week. he obviously amended the

order in terms of allowing the trump children and trump family to continue to operate their business and to get loans, which was a big step in the right direction. as i have always said, this is going to be a long game. >> what is your assessment of how she has handled this case, and the vulnerabilities that come with this financial pickle the trump has found himself in? >> well, i think that her lawyering skills have been probably appropriately assessed by most commentators. she had great difficulty in the e. jean carroll case, getting simple documents into evidence, getting questions asked and answered. notwithstanding the efforts to assist her by the judge. in the 400+ million dollar case

overseen by judge engoron , she was quite this respect will. one of her clients, pled guilty to perjury in that case. subsequently so, i think you see some pretty extreme danger down the road for her, i think. in terms of the ability to continue on the federal court stage or the high-profile stage. but at the same time, i think it is also important to understand that i don't think the president expected to win either of those cases. and while he was critical of the case that he only lost $5 million and, elena lost him $87 million. i think that is a very good measuring stick. and i think

she just has to learn some simple foundational, evidentiary stuff in courtroom procedure, and most importantly, she has to learn how to respect the judges. because that was sorely lacking in both cases. >> yeah, i think that is been said many times. a pleasure to speak with you, i look forward to doing so again. thank you so much. coming up later, call it a case of twisted irony. the one thing donald trump is going to get his hands on if he officially secures the republican nomination, and it has the intelligence community very concerned.

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