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defendants at once in the almost unthinkably short time span of just six months. ambitious to say the least and a lot can happen between now and the trial. >> the next big date on the horizon is august 25th at noon. that is next friday. it is the deadline for donald trump and the other defendants to surrender to authorities. donald trump's attorney confirmed this morning that trump will surrender, but she also downplayed all of the charges that are currently being posed against her client. >> does president trump know that this is a perilous threat? >> we do not agree that it is a perilous threat because we actually have inside information. so i love when people -- >> what inside information? >> the inside information, steve, you used to love trump, i got to tell you, i mean, this is something i'm not going to breach. i have confidentiality and ethics and i'm going to continue, but i think you need to understand something. when somebody is given a report,

and he has reports that show that there was interference, when he says i want to look into it, i don't trust it, we need to look into it, that's his obligation as a president. >> that was obviously on fox. despite that, the former president clearly has no intention of waiting to fight this out in court. he was attacking the d.a. in real time overnight and this morning, less than 12 hours after being indicted. mr. trump posted a message promoting a press conference this coming monday in which he said he would issue a report he's calling irrefutable in order to push back on the charges against him. less than an hour ago, also georgia's republican governor brian kemp then fired back, posting bluntly, quote, the 2020 election in georgia was not stolen. for nearly three years now, posted the governor, anyone with evidence of fraud has failed to come forward under oath and prove anything in a court of law. our elections in georgia are

secure, accessible and fair, and will continue to be so as long as i am governor. the future of our country is at stake in 2024 and that must be our focus. >> i want to bring in nbc news vaughn hillyard, catherine christian is a former manhattan district attorney and former assistant d.a., lisa rubin is an msnbc legal analyst. welcome to all of you. you know the city and the state as well as anyone. i want to show the front page of your paper because the entire front page is all indictment all the time, trump, 18 allies indicted, charged with conspireing to overturn the 2020 election. as someone who knows this case, who knows this prosecutor, who knows this judge, was there anything in this indictment that surprised or stands out to you? >> what stood out to me and other courtroom observers is how strong it is, how big it is. fani willis went big with this

indictment and spread to multiple states. she alleged a criminal conspiracy, a criminal enterprise, went to other battleground states, not just georgia. and some of the biggest names we saw, giuliani, eastman, the former president, meadows, there is also some lesser known figures. i think that caught some folks off guard, they're not household names, there are some operatives that even veteran republican politicians are calling me saying have you heard of this person? they're not necessarily well known to those in georgia. >> one of the things that people keep saying after they read the indictment, a lot of lawyers on this network and elsewhere, say you can tell from this indictment she means business. but you also know her. you know the way she strategizes. we all know that she has prosecuted lots of rico cases before. does she mean business? >> i would say she means business and she telegraphed from the start she would be using -- investigating rico charges. she's a rico expert herself. she hired a rico expert to join

her staff. and as a consultant on these cases, and, you know, even as donald trump and other republican allies of the former president have chastised her and criticized her, she said, look, i can walk and chew gum at the same time, i can still run the office, a very busy office, the busy prosecutor's office in georgia while also pursuing these charges. i think we'll see a lot more from her in the future. >> they're saying there is inside information that she has about her client, donald trump saying i'm coming out on monday and i'll reveal of everything. brian kemp says there is no evidence of fraud. they have not shown any evidence of fraud back then. they still have not shown it now. do you expect that in court they're going to be trying to argue evidence of fraud still or is there legal argument under oath going to look a whole lot different? >> first of all, the prosecutors, jack smith and the january 6th case, and d.a.

willis or whoever is going to be the lead attorney, will make what's called the motion, where the attorneys seek to disallow evidence or allow evidence. both those prosecutors are going to make motions that this 2020 election cannot be relitigated in either trial. it is irrelevant, it is a red herring. it will be up to judge chutkan and whoever the judge is in georgia. it is completely irrelevant. it will be interesting whatever his report is he's releasing and if his name is on it because he is a criminal defendant and he has a right to remain silent, so any false information in that report, i'm not saying there will be but it will be used against him. in all of his cases. so, but that relitigating the 2020 election is good for the public, but it won't happen in the courtroom. >> and vaughn, bring us up to date. i understand there is a statement from the attorney for one of the so-called fake electors in georgia, david

shaffer. >> reporter: right, the question, andrea, is how many of these defendants will ultimately plead not guilty or are some of these 19 defendants going to end up working with prosecutors and take a plea agreement and potentially undercut donald trump and others' own defenses. david shaffer was the gop republican georgia party chairman here and he still is. and just want to let you look at the statement here from his attorney in just the last few minutes, they write david shaffer is totally innocent of the charges filed against him yesterday in fulton county superior court. his conduct regarding the 2020 presidential election was lawful, appropriate and specifically authorized by the u.s. constitution, federal and state law, and long-standing legal precedent. it is notable here this weekend, i was with donald trump in iowa, and before this indictment came down, i specifically asked him the question of whether he defended and stood by the actions of his allies in the aftermath of the 2020 election. and i think his answer was

interesting because donald trump has maintained loyalty to those who have remained loyal to him. and it is hard to suggest that these 18 defendants were anything but wholly loyal to donald trump and the aftermath of the 2020 election. but his response to me was in part, quote, many of the allies i don't know because to be honest with you, i have so many allies. i don't know exactly what you're talking about. we have a lot of allies i don't know, but they're allies and i can't speak to that, nobody can answer that question. that was donald trump before this indictment, essentially making it clear that in his own defense, here in georgia, he's going to maintain that he does not take responsibility for the actions of the other 18 defendants here and that when you look at these racketeering charges, his defense will essentially be these folks acted on their own, without my essentially head nod of approval for the acts that they took while defending and maintaining his own innocence and his own right to have taken the actions

that he took. >> vaughn hillyard, great to have you, thank you so much. i want to play part of what fani willis said last night. she was talking about the 161 overt acts that make up a huge part of this indictment. take a listen. >> as you examine the indictment, you will see acts that are identified as overt acts, and those that are identified as predicate acts. sometimes called acts of racketeering activity. overt acts are not necessarily crimes under georgia law in isolation. but are alleged to be acts taken in furtherance of the conspiracy. >> so this morning, elena said they're covered by the first amendment, but when you doo a google search of this indictment, it says more than 100 times false statement. so help us understand the idea

of freedom of speech and false statements as they apply to this indictment. >> i think one issue is who is the false statement made to? there are a number of circumstances in which a president of the united states can make statements on twitter that don't just go out into the ether, but are received from political actors, elected officials, and in that context it can be a false statement for purposes of the georgia election code, or the georgia criminal code and that's where the two intersect and are problematic. >> talking about false statements, the argument is that donald trump believed there was fraud. he believed there was fraud. this was his state of mind. he thought the election was taken from him and he had some legal minds telling him it was. when you look at the indictment, it is early on, page 20, you see there is a discussion about a draft speech with unindicted co-conspirator individual one, trump has this discussion, whose identity is known to the grand

jury, that falsely declared victory and falsely claimed voter fraud. his speech was an overt act. this is a speech he's talking about giving october 31st. that's before the election even happens, before the outcome is realized. >> yeah and that's problematic for a bunch of reasons. we know, for example, from the january 6th investigation that there were a number of instances after the election where people told him you didn't win, you lost. mark milley, for example. this is on the other side. how can you have a subjective belief you won when before the election you had already predetermined you had lost, but illegitimately. i agree with you this is a real problem. and this stood out to me and other folks as well. >> and, vaughn hillyard was outlining, catherine, that the former president's defense is going to be in part, i didn't know what all of these 18 people were doing. but, again, in the indictment,

there is a reference to an oval office meeting. he was in charge behind the resolute desk in the oval office with these attorneys. and there is an unindicted co-conspirator in that december 18th, 2020 meeting, known to the grand jury, according to the indictment. there were instances where he is clearly front and center throughout this indictment, directing this criminal enterprise according to the indictment. >> exactly. and in other conspiracy indictments, the mob, narcotics traffickers, that usually is the leaders' defense. i don't know what these people are doing, these little people, i -- and some of them are smart to keep their hands off of everything, donald trump is a micromanager. so, he's in every phone call, he is tweeting and as the d.a. said, a tweet in isolation obviously isn't a crime. you have to put it in the context of the vast conspiracy that she has charged. >> catherine, thank you so much.

catherine christian, greg lieu steen, lisa rubin, thank you to all of you. i want to bring in nakema williams. congresswoman, thanks very much for being with us today. you released a statement last night as we were going through the indictment last night and overnight, and i want to play part of what shaye moss had to say. that's a critical piece of the indictment. >> and several things they include threats. >> yes. a lot of threats, wishing death upon me, telling me that, you know, i'll be in jail with my mother, and saying things like be glad it's 2020 and not 1920. >> i mean, that was such a

compelling -- she and ruby freeman. ruby freeman, the election worker, you know, rather than her daughter, is mentioned. how powerful is that to, you know, to relate this case, which can seem very distanced to people to the american voter? >> andrea, thank you for uplifting those stories because i remind people all the time that i don't represent numbers, i represent real people. ruby freeman and shaye moss, they're constituents. they love right here and they were election day workers who went in to do their job, and what should have been an uneventful experience because we have people who signed up to do this work for not a lot of money, but to uphold our democracy and they were subjected to this because they simply showed up to do their job that day. that is why we introduced legislation in congress around election subversion and i was happy to hear when hearing the details from the indictment that

my district attorney, also a constituent, was also focusing in on the election subversion piece and not just the piece of that you hear about so often in the news and the media. let's be clear, donald trump and his co-conspirators have done a lot of things that are illegal and our district attorney is going to get to the bottom of this. uplifting those things around the election subversion and everyday people who didn't sign up to run for office, who didn't sign up to be subjected to this were -- had to move out of their homes and seek safety because of the threats they were receiving, all because a president of -- a sitting president, who knew he didn't win an election, who planned for this, when he thought he might be lose the election put a target on their backs and that's why leaders in this country have to step up and do something about this to save our democracy because it is about real people. >> and i know that you were a protege of the late great john lewis, many of us in washington knew so well.

tell me how are shaye moss and ruby freeman doing now, several years later? >> so, years later, we're hearing this play out in the judicial system and congressman lewis would always remind us that this is -- this is a journey and democracy is an action. and we -- it is not about one generation, but each generation has to do their part. and so i know the lessons that mr. lewis has taught me and it is up to us, the next generation, to pick up the mantle and to do our part. this is a relay race. i'm here to take the baton and run my leg of the race because it takes all of us to make sure that we get this democracy right and our democracy, you don't get to try and change the results because you lost, you live with the results that you have and make your case to the voters the next time. and that's what we're looking for to doing, this next presidential election cycle, georgia will continue to be the center of the political universe, we'll continue to organize, get our voters out,

because this is about the people here in georgia. like shaye moss and ruby freeman, that showed up to exercise their right in this democracy and we're going to make sure their voices are heard. >> congresswoman, can you put into context where on that road, where in that race you see this line? we have already seen the d.a. has been attacked as a racist, your state is going to have to endure, the good, the bad and the ugly. trials are a messy business like politics is, they have to endure being at the center of what may very well be the most watched trial in history. where do you see this fitting in historically and in terms of where we are right now as a democracy? >> so, in georgia, we're used to this. we're the cradle of the civil rights movement. we're accustomed to being in this spotlight for things that are not always the best parts of our nation's history. i'm born and raised in the south and so i understand what it means to operate in a system that wasn't designed by or for people who look like me.

but our d.a. has shown us that it is never the wrong time to do the right thing and she is willing to step up, even putting her own safety and her family's safety on the line. i'm glad she's getting the protection she needs. we have seen the increase in threats against elected officials, especially black women, who are elected to office in this country, and so we have to make sure that people are kept safe. but this is our civil rights moment. if you're ever wondering what you would have done during this civil rights movement, would you have stepped up and done your part to stand on the side of truth and justice, this is your chance -- your opportunity to find out. because this is our civil rights movement. >> congresswoman nikema williams, thank you for joining us. coming up, defending donald trump, what could the former president's legal fight look like against the georgia charges and what does this latest indictment mean for the three other cases hanging over donald trump's head? one of donald trump's former attorneys joins us next with

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boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv donald trump faces the possibility of prison time and the reality that even winning the white house will not make this case go away because presidents cannot pardon state charges. only federal charges. joining me now is tim parlatore, he served as donald trump's attorney before his resignation in june. tim parlatore's resignation, not donald trump's. i'm curious, this idea that donald trump might go out and his legal team and argue advice of counsel on advice of counsel against these charges, do you expect them to do that and if so, would you be worried about that opening up all that lawyer discovery? >> you know, advice of counsel is a very narrow defense.

and, you know, i think they're going to try and go a little bit broader than that to really just attack the underlying criminal intent and, you know, really going into what his knowledge is. the fact he was told there was fraud, whether by attorneys or investigators or by other people, it is a bit broader than just simply on advice of counsel defense the way i see it. of course, this case is kind of interesting because the attorneys that he would assert advice of counsel with are there as his co-defendants. that's a very different situation than you would normally have. >> it is very different. talking about believing fraud and intent and state of mind. there is one note. we mentioned it a moment ago, lisa rubin, in the first act against racketeering listed here, in this indictment, and it mentions in october 31st discussion about a draft speech with another unindicted co-conspirator that talks about falsely declaring victory and falsely claiming voter fraud.

this is before the election happened. so when you're talking about state of mind, his state of mind seems to suggest from this indictment that he was preparing to say that he won, no matter what. >> well, and that's part of the problem with indictments is it gives part of the story, you know. was that the only version of the space that was prepared ahead of time or did they prepare three or four different versions and that's the one that they happen to pick that matched the facts as they developed. i don't know. presumably they had another one that said, you know, that he won by a landslide and he was very happy. that's just the nature of indictments is that they're only putting in part of the facts. so we're going to have to see how that one develops. >> you know, when we talk about the lawyers here, some of those who were indicted, co-conspirators, are sidney powell and john eastman and rudy

giuliani and mike pence on the campaign trail has been referring to them as his crack pot lawyers. what do you think about some of the lawyering that went on in this case, leading up to these indictments? >> i mean, look, you can always sit there after the fact and pick apart things that lawyers have done. i will tell you this, based on my representation of multiple people, not just the president, but bernie kerik, i will say that sidney powell is one of those lawyers that everything i've seen she was putting out theories that she didn't have any backup for. and that was actually one of the things that, you know, this indictment makes it seem like rudy giuliani and sidney powell were shoulder to shoulder. everything i've seen is the opposite. rudy giuliani was trying to push her out because she was pushing theories that she had no backup for. so i do think that that is a split that you're going to see develop a little bit more fully

as this progresses. and also it is something that is relevant to the jack smith d.c. indictment. kind of the difference between what the sidney powell team is doing and what the giuliani team was doing. >> and i want to pause, you brought it up, that -- are you now still representing bernie kerik. you had been in the january 6th case, the federal case. >> yes. mr. kerik and i sat with special counsel last week. >> anything you care to reveal about the status of that? >> we sat with him for five hours. yeah, we sat with him for about five hours, we went through all of the efforts that the giuliani team undertook during that period of time to try and find fraud. what was preventing them from being able to, you know, go further, what they did to try and corroborate these claims, and certain claims of when they found out there wasn't corroboration for that they dropped out. and so, you know, we went

through all that with him. >> i want to ask you about the effort to continue to try to find some sort of fraud that happened in 2020 because donald trump put it out there this morning, he's going to have this press conference, he's going to reveal all. suddenly all these charges are going to be rendered moot because of this new information he has, ignoring the fact that 62 lawsuits were filed and basically 61 of them said there is no there there. is this a political statement, not a legal statement? do you see anything? do you have knowledge of anything that would indicate that there could be something to say there was fraud in the 2020 election? >> i don't know what he's -- what his truth social post is referring to. i will tell you that what mr. kerik has always been very consistent on is that the evidence that he saw of fraud in the 2020 election was just the

beginnings of it. they found what amounted to what he calls probable cause to believe that there may have been fraud in the election that warranted further investigation by state or federal authorities to be able to conclusively prove or disprove those allegations. that is what, you know, basically all of my clients have consistently this is the probable cause piece of it. there were inconsistencies. some things, for example, were based on an initial analysis of the voter data that was put up on the secretary of state's website. and unfortunately because of lack of funding, the giuliani team wasn't able to hire more experts to be able to corroborate those numbers and double-check the math. and so they went on the information that they had at the time, and, you know, would further investigation would be able to confirm that or conclusively disprove that? probably. but that was the information

they had. >> so you're saying this was all about resources, rudy giuliani didn't have the resources, you also mentioned a moment ago, i would like to explain more on it that rudy giuliani thought sidney powell was not a good lawyer, and that he was trying to distance himself from her. where did that happen? i don't remember seeing a lot of distancing between the two of them. >> so it started after that press conference at the rnc where she started making claims that they couldn't back up. and, you know, that's why they initially pushed her out and said she's not part of the team. it then went to the december meeting at the white house. where rudy giuliani was called in because sidney powell was there, you know, pushing again these -- some of these theories such as having dod seize the voting machines, rudy giuliani was called in and he told the president that is an absolutely crazy idea, absolutely not. and as i understand it, president trump kind of joked that this is the first time pat

cipollone and rudy giuliani agreed on something, so, you know -- >> is there documentation of that? >> i don't know if there is any written document, but there are multiple eyewitnesss to that. that's the meeting where at the end of it, she was barred from the white house, along with mike flynn and patrick burn. >> and let me just quickly tie up something, i'm not an attorney, don't play one on tv, you left something hanging out there about mr. kerik, for police commissioner of new york city who served time on a completely unrelated charge, is there any chance he is cooperating? >> he is being cooperative. he does not have any criminal exposure himself. so it is not like he needs a cooperation agreement. but he is providing information to the special counsel as he will provide information to the defense team relevant to both of their cases to ensure what is presented in court is the full and honest information about

what happened during that period of time. so i would say, you know, cooperating is kind of a loaded term. he's being cooperative. >> a lot there to chew on, tim. thank you so much. always good to have you on the program. appreciate it. unlike jack smith's federal election interference case in washington, d.c., this indictment in georgia doesn't just list the former president alone. he's one of 19 co-defendants. here are some of the names that might sound familiar, former chief of staff mark meadows, former justice department official jeffrey clark, former trump campaign attorney kenneth chesebro, former members of trump's 2020 legal team, janet ellis and, yes, sidney powell, and trump's former personal attorneys john eastman and rudy giuliani. one of the series of racketeering acts listed in the indictment points to a now infamous press conference featuring giuliani alongside sidney powell where they promoted voter conspiracies in the election in georgia and other states. take a listen.

>> there was a plan from a centralized place to execute these various acts of voter fraud, specifically focused on big cities. and specifically focused on, as you would imagine, big cities controlled by democrats. >> i want to bring in former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst paul butler. also with us, former prosecutor, federal prosecutor and former fdny criminal division deputy chief christine greenburg. back to what tim said for a minute, if i can, because it sounds like something we didn't know and katie you know this better than anybody, suddenly sidney powell was on the outs as if she had finally done something that crossed a line. i wonder what you make of what we just heard.

>> it certainly doesn't comport with what's in the indictment or anything publicly reported. looking at page 33, act 90, there is a description of that meeting there is no description of rudy giuliani saying, hey, all of the things that sidney powell is saying are terrible. it is the opposite. they're talking about appointing her as special counsel to actually do more investigation. and then you have just ten days later the indictment says that rudy giuliani is still peddling the same kinds of fraudulent claims that are baseless that sidney powell is claiming, about the fraud at state farm arena, the felons voting illegally, dead people voting. so this idea that somehow rudy giuliani saw the light and was trying to redirect things in a positive way, it just -- there is no record to support that. i'm not sure -- >> would we have seen it by now? if it did exist, would we see it three years later? >> there is a lot of reporting

with about that meeting where you are team normal and team crazy. and they were trying to have martial law and seize the voting machines. there has been no reporting and nothing that suggested in this indictment to say he was trying to stop these baseless election fraud claims. >> and paul butler, at that same meeting, an unindicted co-conspirator known to the grand jury in this indictment. that's a small universe with the president of the united states who we're told is going to be one of the defenses that he had nothing to do with these 18 other people is a central player threaded throughout the indictment as it is written by this d.a. >> it is what prosecutors love. an inside woman or man who can say what really went down at that meeting. advice of counsel is used to suggest the defendant didn't

have criminal intent. and the indictment anticipates that argument from trump's team. and lists all these overt acts by trump that suggest that he knew he lost, he was just trying to remain in office by any means necessary. so he called at least six georgia officials and urged them to find enough votes for him to win. the indictment says that's evidence of his criminal intent. he repeatedly made false statements about fraud and the election that never happened. including by lying about ruby freeman and her daughter, the election workers who were subject to those vicious attacks by trump supporters. but the other problem with the advice of counsel defense is that some of the lawyers who advice trump knew their advice on the fake electors scheme would be rejected by the supreme

court. so they weren't even relying on the advice that trump says they gave him. >> we're trying to load up a sound bite from january 6th hearings where the lawyers are talking about that december 18th meeting and what was happening and describing the fighting that was happening inside the oval office meeting that started in the oval office and spilled out to the residence. we heard so much about that meeting and this indictment, we didn't hear as much about it in the jack smith indictment. >> it was interesting. jack smith was laying out a timeline and had a number of tweets that followed from donald trump in the wee hours of december 19th, but didn't include the details of that meeting on december 18th. there may be some reasons for that if he has witnesses that were inside that office, but he doesn't feel confident enough that he wants to lay out everything those witnesses have said. maybe they're not signed up as cooperators, there could be any number of reasons he didn't want to commit in writing to a

recitation of what happened. >> almost broke out into a physical fight where two of the people inside the room said they could go outside, take this outside. of all the examples between the election and january 6th, other than january 6th, this was perhaps the craziest thing, the most wild thing that came out of the january 6th hearing. we actually finally loaded that sound. let's play it. >> asking a question, as a general matter, where is the evidence. so -- >> what response did you get when you asked. >> a variety of responses based on my current recollection including, you know, what do you mean where is the evidence? you should know. things like that, or, you know, a general disregard for the importance of actually backing up what you're saying with

facts. >> i think we can still ask where is the evidence. >> what makes this so galling, going back to rudy giuliani for a second, because listening to some of those other statements seems like they're trying to say there were some lawyers who were serious people in trying to include rudy giuliani in that bucket and others like sidney powell that were in the crack pot description that others had given and rudy giuliani is somebody who should be held to a different standard. he was a former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. my former office. he is somebody who should know better and the idea that he is out there pedaling false claims, saying, you know, spewing venom against election workers, soliciting according to this soliciting various public officers to violate their oath this was somebody who was taught to protect communities and instead in this indictment he's victimizing them.

just really shameful conduct from a former u.s. attorney. >> who built a reputation in many ways on actually pursuing rico cases. that's a final irony of it. christine, paul, thank you very much. up next, live to maui, where so far only a quarter of the wildfire zone has been searched and hundreds of people are still missing. now a major question, how did firefighters run out of water fighting the deadliest wildfire in u.s. history. ildfire in.s u. history. wayfair has nice prices, so you can have nice things. um kelly? we have champagne taste... on a hard seltzer budget... wayfair's got just what you need! what... y'all this is nice. salad plates? kelly clarkson? i'm fancy now! i have always wanted statement lighting. get nice things at nice prices at wayfair! ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ businesses need 5g solutions today.

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we want to go now to the latest in maui where the death toll continues to climb in what is already the deadliest wildfire in modern u.s. history. 99 people now confirmed dead and officials say that number is expected to rise. an estimated 1,000 people are still missing. hawaii's governor says the number of fatalities may continue to increase by ten to 20 per day since only 25% of the burn area has been searched so for. today, officials began notifying families of first victims identified, just three of the 99. here is the maui police chief on the difficulty and dignity of the ongoing search. >> when folks are shifting through burnt debris, and dust is on you, it is not just dust on you, it is our dead. >> nbc's dana griffin joins me

now from maui. what is the latest on the search efforts there? >> reporter: well, chris, we heard from the governor this morning, he says they hope by the weekend to have up to 85% of the decimated area searched for the missing. he even talked about how they're finding small bodies and he says we see that they're small, we know they are children. as you mentioned, hundreds still missing right now. fema is on the ground, they have several cadaver dogs with the fema crews and firefighters going block by block, car by car, trying to find and identify as many people as possible. we hope to learn the names of those three people who were identified later today. we also have spoken with a fema representative about just the scope of what is going on. listen to what they told us. >> how many homes have been destroyed? how many of those are primary residences? how many families have been displaced? we know some of that information based on the hundreds of people

who are in shelters as a direct result of the fires. many other people may be sheltering with family and friends who let them stay in their homes. and so, as we work through this process, we'll get a better idea of the full scope of the need. >> reporter: and, chris, we know that hundreds of hotel rooms have been occupied by these evacuees. another 1,000 plus airbnb units will be made available for more long-term housing. fema is depositing $700 into the accounts of the victims, just something that you have to apply for, it is a direct deposit that will help pay for food and clothing for people. there is also as the search is going on, there is also a major concern about what happened, what went wrong, we already know about the sirens not going off and there are now concerns about the potential cause of the fire. there are class action lawsuits that are being filed, blaming hawaii electric for possibly

causing this fire, or at least not deenergizing their poles after this weather warning. they're commenting saying the cause of the fire has yet to be determined and they do not comment on pending litigation. people are -- they want answers. we're also hearing from firefighters that the water pressure was nonexistent or very low, which may have also impeded their efforts to fight the fires, a lot of questions that we hope to get answers over the next several days. chris? >> dana griffin, thank you so much. and coming up, why these 13 new charges in georgia could be a bigger legal threat to trump than the 78 other charges he was already facing. you're watching special coverage of the indictment of donald trump right here on msnbc. of the indictment of donald trump right here on msnbc. (ella) fashion moves fast. setting trends is our business. we need to scale with customer demand... ...in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network.

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donald trump was already facing 78 charges across three criminal cases before this latest indictment. but those are nothing like the

13 new counts for his alleged attempts to overturn the 2020 election results in georgia. and the differences are going to become apparent immediately according to the fulton county sheriff's department. >> unless someone tells me differently, we are following our normal practices. and so doesn't matter your status, we have mug shots ready for you. >> so, even before the arraignment will be that mug shot which has been waived as a courtesy of new york and federal court before this. then from the moment he enters that courtroom, there will be cameras to capture everything unless the judge rules otherwise, meaning this trial could be televised. even leading up to a possible conviction. there will be nothing a future president or even georgia's republican governor can do or would do to pardon him. joining us now is atlanta journal constitution's and

associated press washington bureau chief, host of way too early and msnbc political analyst jonathan lemire. talk to us about what happens in georgia. makes sense a president could not pardon a state conviction, explain why the governor can't in this case either. >> well, in georgia, there is a pardon and parole board. now, you know, the governor probably has some level of influence because he has a role in appointing members of the board. but there is not a direct pardon from the governor in georgia. that's why you have been hearing statements that the governorgova little bit remove and i'm sure he's probably not mad about the way the law is written. because as we know, he and trump have had a pretty sizable falling out, but he's really avoided engaging directly with this case. he's avoided having direct

criticism of trump quite frankly. so, this keeps him removed even if trump were to be convicted. >> can i ask you a political conversation. what is your sense of the way donald trump is perceived in georgia? he did not win in 2020 this is what this is all about, he lost sort of the moderate republicans, suburban voters, independents, the democrats. have you seen there be a swing either way, since these indictments, the indictment yesterday, all of the drama leading up to this? >> no, what we're seeing in georgia, which is a swing state, as you noted, is kind of what we have been seeing across america, which is generally speaking democrats are over trump, they have been over trump, they were never for trump. there are a lot of independents as we saw in the 2020 election who said they feel like trump has gone too far, he's bad for the country. they're also over trump. within the republican party, which is true in georgia, true across the nation, there is a

split. there are plenty of republicans who believe that, you know, trump -- they might not necessarily feel that he's a criminal who should go to jail, but they believe that the party should move on. there are republicans who think he's done wrongdoing, but there are plenty of republicans who just believe, hey, it is time to turn the corner, let's find someone who is just as conservative but not as controversial. but right now, if there is a split, you would -- there are a lot of -- a lot of republicans, probably a majority of republicans, in georgia, who are still trump republicans. and that is where we see the members of his party not only do they not believe he's done anything wrong, they believe this is a witch-hunt, they believe that this indictment is politically motivated. quite frankly they believe that trump did win the 2020 election. a lot of republicans still believe that. and so that's what we're seeing

in georgia, so there are a lot of republicans, elected officials, as well as rank and file voters in georgia, who we see are saying this is a politically motivated investigation. they're not for it, they don't believe it in it, they don't support it, they support donald trump. >> let me ask you this really quickly what are the chances that this does get televised? is it a done deal? 90%? how do you see this? >> well, i think it is not a done deal because technically it is the purview of the judge, the judge was just assigned.

>> and objective way, but, listen, i think that, you know, it is so much that this trial, people seeing this trial, people seeing really kind of all of this llunfolding since the 2020 election, it is not justce abou former presidenton trump and

his -- it is about democracy and the rule of law itself. this particular case was part of the slow rolling election that is stillol in motion to this da for a lot of people. to see that play out in the legal process, i think probably is important for ahi lot of americans and especially to a lot of georgians that were targeted. >> and jonathan lemire, you covered the trump white house, you know him so well, he's the original's reality tv star turn politician, if he is a politician. and thrives on that. thrives on the spectacle. so it is -- is there a downside that this could become a political nightmare forhi him, he's, quote, exposed as critics say a he should be in a televis trial or will he use the spectacle of the trial? and become thee central playern a good way politically for him? >> well, he certainly has been able to do that before, andrea.

he's capitalized in moments that would seemingly sunk any politician beforein him and tur it to his advantage. we saw it in 2016. this would be different, we have seenis videos of trump give depositions and legalru proceedings before. he'sde a very different charact than we're seeing on a rally stage, far less bravado, quiet and subdued. certainly that has been his demeanor in the prescriptions we have gotten from reporters and other previouste courthouse appearances, those would be televised. he said he'll holdpe w a news conference on monday at his golf courset to prove his innocence. we can all greet that with a healthy dose of skepticism. but, certainly, he is one who takes all the attention and takes all the oxygen out of the room. this isyg what we're going to b talking about next week, not the first republican debate.re likely what he's going to skip. he's head and shoulders above every otherld gop candidate in every poll we see.

effectively, thatse primary is almost over already. and then, of course, there will be the toll of this legal peril, what does it mean for next year? maybe this is going to help in the gop primaries, it is likely a differentar story in a genera election rematch with president biden. >> jonathan lemire, tia mitchell, erin, haines, thank you very much. we're going to unpack the former president's latest attack against georgia prosecutors and the press conference heag planso hold about fraud he still claims exists. you're watching special coverage of thesp indictment of donald trump right here on msnbc. of the indictment of donald trump right here on msnbc. ♪oh♪ ♪then you take me by the hand♪ ♪i feel better again♪ ♪oh i feel better now♪

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♪upset stomach, diarrhea♪ pepto bismol coats and soothes for fast relief when you need it most. hitting the top of the hour. thank you for staying with our special coverage of the fourth indictment against donald trump. i'm chris jansen with andrea mitchell and katy tur, and digging into what fani will is called the criminal enterprise represented by the former president and 18 codefendants across georgia and across the country and arizona and michigan and nevada, new mexico, pennsylvania, wisconsin, and washington, d.c. >> this hour, we will break down the sprawling 98-page indictment and the activity by donald trump and associates beginning the day after the 2020 election, all the way through to september, 2022. and