eugene scott, thank you for joining us this morning. we should not lose site of this. another precedent set by former president donald trump, the first to be charged with a crime, indicted and now to be found liable of sexual abuse. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this wednesday morning. a jam packed "morning joe" starts right now. what's your reaction to president trump being found liable in the e. jean carroll case? >> i think the new york legal system is off the rails when it comes to donald trump? >> do you have a response to president trump being find liable for sexual abuse? >> um, um, no. >> thank you, mr. good. just a small sample of the republican reaction to the verdict in donald trump's civil rape trial. a new york jury found him liable

for sexual abuse, ordering him to pay $5 million to writer e. jean carroll. we have legal analysis on the case and more reaction from capitol hill straight ahead. also ahead, a high stakes meeting on the debt ceiling lives up to the low expectations everyone predicted. a look at what could come next as both sides have a small window to hammer out a deal. plus it appears that george santos elis and questionable financial claims are finally catching up to him as he is facing federal charges. and a live report from el paso, texas on how the biden administration is preparing for the end of a pandemic-era immigration restriction. good morning and welcome to "morning joe" it's wednesday, may 10th. along with joe, willie and me, we have host of "way too early," jonathan lemire. former white house director of

communications, jen palmerry. cohost of show time's "the circus". attorney and columnist for "the washington post" george conway is with us as well. so it begins. donald trump is the first former president to be found liable for sexual abuse. a new york city jury for the civil trial handed down that verdict yesterday ordering trump to pay $5 million in damages to writer e. jean carroll. she sued trump for battery and defamation. saying he raped her in a department store in the '90s and then lied about it. trump has repeatedly denied the allegation. the jury ruled there was not enough evidence to prove that carroll was raped but agreed she was sexually abused by donald trump. and they said he defamed the writer calling her claims a hoax

and a con job. the jury deliberated for just under three hours. in a statement e. jean carroll said he filed the suit to clear her name, adding today, the world finally knows the truth. this victory is not just for me but for every woman who has suffered because she was not believed. meanwhile, trump went on a tirade after the jury's verdict yet making a series of posts on his platform truth social claiming he never met carroll. and called the judge who presided over the case a terrible person who should have recused himself. and vowed to fight the verdict. >> i have no idea who this woman is. i have no idea who she is, where she came from. this is another scam, it's a political witch hunt. and somehow we have to fight this. we cannot let our country go into this abyss.

this is disgraceful. >> trump's lawyer echoed a similar statement, he was yelled at outside the courthouse. he's going to file an appeal. >> liars are going to lie. donald trump is going to lie. no doubt about it. the thing is, willie, what the jury found him guilty of is what he admitted to doing in the "access hollywood" tapes and what he said in depositions, if you're rich, famous, a, quote, star you're allowed to sexually assault people. he said he did it in the "access hollywood" tape. reconfirmed it's happened for a million years he said. so again, it's not surprising they came to this verdict because the admissions -- >> the deposition. >> -- were always out there. and the deposition was there, which only reconfirmed it. of course, though, i don't want to get too distracted because we

know they've been vak wow for a long time, shameful people who are anti-american and hate the rule of law. but you see republican senators calling a jury of their peers -- >> yeah. >> -- jokes. >> yeah. >> saying that it -- it's a sham. that's just -- that's somebody that is so in on trumpism that they're -- they're under mining the bedrock of the american judicial system and madisonian democracy. when snores say the jury is a joke, that's not a witch hunt, that's a jury of donald trump's peers. they are the law. we've always believed they are the law. and, yeah, there are a lot of

times juries come back with verdicts we don't agree with but it's the law. we don't run around saying they're jokes. it shows how debased people like marco rubio, lindsey graham, who's a lawyer who knows better -- not that he shouldn't know better but he knows better. them attacking a injury for donald trump admitting it. >> what does senator rubio mean the jury was a joke? it was a jury of civilians who answered a notice and listened to the evidence. we heard from republican congressman who said jury of my peers and laughed it off as if the entire concept of jury of our peers, which is foundational to our country and justice system is somehow a joke. this is a big deal. donald trump has been accused by

more than a dozen women of sexual abuse of some kind and this is the first time a court has confirmed the accusations and it's above the fold in the newspapers here this morning. "the new york times," picture of e. jean carroll who will be our guest this morning. "the wall street journal," the daily news put it bluntly, calling donald trump a sex abuser. and finally "the new york post" says of the $5 million judgment, grab him by the wallet. a reference of course to the "access hollywood" tape. and george conway, i don't want to focus on the people who have shown a hatred for madisonian democracy, the rule of law -- these are things that we said before donald trump was in politics and more damningly to them these are things they

said before donald trump was in politics. but once donald trump gets in politics they say to hell with the constitution, the jury system, federal judges, the rule of law. these lemmings are willing to follow him over the cliff in anti-american tirades. i'm curious, your thoughts not only on that, and also on the -- the number of republicans who said this is a bridge too far. there was quite a lot of those. and also what happened yesterday. why the jury came back so quickly? >> the jury came back so quickly because the evidence was, essentially, overwhelming and unrebutted. donald trump refused to show up. had he shown up he would have been destroyed on cross-examination. the deposition testimony as you pointed out was absolutely devastating. essentially he said women have been sexually abused for million

years, fortunately or unfortunately. basically he's saying, they're both -- there are good people on both sides of sexual abuse. that's essentially donald trump's position. he's a complete sociopath in that regard and lying about everything but denying that he knew e. jean carroll. and i think the problem is, and you see it with rubio and these others, is they have been playing along with the con for too long. and you have all these people out there, maybe, i don't know, 20% or 30% of the american public as a whole, certainly a good chunk of the republican base, has basically -- has basically bunk erred itself in to exclude any information, any news, any thoughts that would imply or infer that donald trump is any -- in any way less than perfect. that he's a liar. they simply can't accept even

the slightest impingement on that view because if you do you realize how bad he is, it falls apart. there are on the 20-odd women who made these accusations against him. they're all lying? every single one of them? the jury was faced with the question of are we going to believe that somebody, 25 years ago or 30 years ago, cooked up this scheme so that some day when donald trump became a right-wing republican or pretended to become a right-wing republican they could spring this on him, it was just insane and absurd. but the problem is, we have a large segment of the population that has locked itself into this insanity. you have a television network that basically paid $787 million to coddle the viewers so they don't have views they don't want to hear. and then you have basically the republican political

establishment, still most of it, not wanting to touch any of this. that's why we are where we are, and that's why donald trump is going to -- even though he's now an adjudicated sexual abuser he's going to get the nomination. he's been indicted in one jurisdiction, he'll get the nomination. and probably going to be indicted two more times between now and 2024 and still get the nomination. >> and that's going to ultimately end up hurting the republican party again for a couple more years. you talked about that other network that's something on the other network you had people like andy mccarthy, a guy respected, legal thinker among conservatives, saying this is all too much for trump. it's going to continue and he pulled no punches about the fact this was a jury of trump's peers. it's the same thing that geraldo

said that basically the jury had no choice given the evidence, given donald trump's admissions. given the fact he didn't show up in court. given the fact that his deposition, mika, that you looked at, you saw the whole deposition, that he just -- by the time you're done with that deposition it's evident how the jury is going to go because he admitted -- yes, trump said he sexually assaulted women because he was a star and then he said in the deposition, yes, they -- you know, it's -- maybe that's a good thing. so again, this -- anybody else we talk about anybody else, anybody else would have been found liable for sexual assault here. not a surprise. what's a surprise, though, is republicans and especially, evangelicals are in with the guy who said he wanted to terminate the constitution, in with the guy who tried to overthrow the

results of an election, in for a guy who sat and stared for hours at the television set taking great joy in cops getting the hell beaten out of them in a january 6th riot, calling them patriots and a guy who's found guilty or found liable by a jury of sexual assault. and these evangelicals are going to stay with him and they're going to get what they deserve. >> here are some of the republicans you were talking about responding. take a look. >> i think the new york legal system is off the rails when it comes to donald trump. >> what's happening in some of these courtrooms in manhattan, i don't know. i'm not going to get into it. >> it's a jury of his peers. >> come on, man, serious? don't say that to me. that don't work for me. jury of my peers, whatever. what else you got. >> this is sexual abuse conviction, basically, a finding --

>> it's an allegation from what, 25 years ago? >> okay. so this is -- this is the problem with these republicans. this is the sickness that you're talking about that trump has coursened through the veins of american society and our politics, especially our politics. i want to take a moment to put up on a platform and say thank you to e. jean carroll for having the guts so many years later with so much against her to take this case on. and to push it. and to take that opportunity when the window opened in the law for her to file this civil lawsuit. because it wasn't, ultimately, about whether or not she was lying. it's often very hard with these cases when something happens behind closed doors with no witnesses, so many years later, you wonder, gosh, how could this get anywhere? but you know what, it took her bringing it to trial and

bringing the other women who have had a bad situation with donald trump, and they set it up. and these republicans would just watch the deposition, they would see in front of their own eyes the sickness that donald trump has put on this country. >> mika, they know that. >> no. hold on. >> no. the republicans know that. >> i'm not going to assume them running on capitol hill -- >> they lie on tv. >> i'm not going to assume they watched the deposition. i'm asking. it's 42 minutes, maybe longer but watch it. it's not about whether these women lied. he said he did it. and you're okay with that. you're going after the jury, a jury of his peers? unanimous verdict? and you don't even look at the deposition where donald trump says he did it. this is what he does. you have to understand. this is what he does. he normalizes things that are

not normal. he normalizes things that are not okay. he normalizes things that are illegal. it is not okay. and no, it hasn't happened for millions of years. celebrities don't go up to women and grab their genitals. they don't just walk up and do it. and if they do, they should be charged and go to jail or they should be charged in a civil lawsuit and pay millions. which is happening here. and in the deposition not only is he atrocious and rude to the attorneys, but he says straight out he did it. but he's normalizing it for you and you can't see it because you're clinging, ever so tightly, to a losing proposition. which is what's so stupid. it's stupid. politically, it's malpractice. this doesn't work. you have seen many times over people don't like insurrections. they love the constitution. and they don't like people who

sexually assault women. >> no. and again if they saw the deposition, they would see that yes, during "access hollywood" tape, donald trump bragged about sexually assaulting women. >> says it happens. >> and in this deposition, he said, it happens and said maybe it's bad or maybe it's not bad. so he -- he, again, takes the "access hollywood" tape, brings it up to 2023, saying, you know, maybe that's not a bad thing that donald trump can sexually abuse women. and you have republicans saying, a jury of my peers give me a break. again, here's the crazy thing, they didn't talk that way before donald trump. they didn't talk about

terminating the constitution before donald trump. they didn't talk about overthrowing governments before donald trump. they didn't talk about throwing out elections before donald trump. i say all this to say, these people you talk about throwing pearls at swine, to quote jesus, these people are willing to throw out madisonian democracy for a five-time loser who has already said the constitution should be terminated and that election results should be thrown out and that yes, he still has the right because he's a star, in his words, to commit sexual abuse against women. >> it's the continued massive integrity downgrade of republican party.

started in 2016, continues seven years later. there is one -- there are good things that came out yesterday, joe. even though republicans are ignoring them, we shouldn't bypass. it was an important, very delayed but important repudiation of donald trump's vile actions against women, the way he speaks about women. the "access hollywood" tape, there's a dozen women who accused him of abuse and then there's his words on tape and millions of american women were devastated on election day in 2016 when too many americans had heard that and said, that's okay. it's a pervasive sense to women in america that didn't support him, you're not worth the same as men. and to finally have, in a court, to have our peers in the form of a jury repudiate that, it's a really important validation. just as it matters and has an

impact beyond politics when those republicans continue to say, dismiss the charges, say it doesn't matter, say it's not important. i think that it will have a political impact, as well, though, i think it didn't end with trump and his abuse of women. there's a war on women with the reverse of roe. that continues as well. and women will -- you know, they will hear these words from republicans, see that kind of conviction that came out of new york. and it has an impact on us. i think it makes you just that much r much more fired up, skeptical of the republicans that continue to prop him up. i think it will have an impact on trump's chances to win the republican nomination? probably not. will it hurt republicans that continue to prop him up, i think it will. >> let's hear donald trump in his own words. this was the deposition mika was

talking about when asked by attorneys in october for e. jean carroll about the "access hollywood." here's what donald trump said. >> and you say, and again this has become very famous in this video. i just start kissing them, it's like a magnet, just kiss, i don't even wait and when you're a star they let you do it. you can do anything, grab them by [bleep], you can do anything. >> historically that's true with stars. >> true that they can grab women by [bleep]. >> if you look over the last million years that's largely true. not always but largely true. unfortunately or fortunately. >> you consider yourself to be a star? >> i think you can say that, yeah. >> you have in front of you, a black and white photograph that we've marked as djt-23. i'm going to ask you, is this

the photo you were just referring to? >> i think so, yes. >> do you recall when you first saw the photo? >> at some point during the process i saw it. that's i guess her husband, john johnson, who was an anchor for abc. nice guy. i thought. i don't know him but i thought he was pretty good at what he did. i don't know who the woman -- let's see, i don't know who -- that's mar la. >> you're saying marla is in the photo? >> that's my wife. >> carroll. >> the person you just pointed to is e. jean carroll. >> oh, who is this? >> the woman on the right is your then wife ivanna. >> is this carroll? it's blurry. >> she would not be my first choice, that i can tell you. man.

you don't know that would not be my first choice. >> when you said in the video ms. leads would not be your first choice, you were referring to her physical looks, correct? >> not the overall. i look at her, see her, hear what she said. whatever. you wouldn't be a choice of mine either, to be honest. i hope you're not insulting. i would not under any circumstances have any interest in you. i'm honestly when i say it. >> so there were a number of republican lawmakers we talked about the ones dismissive of this, there were some in the senate critical of donald trump yesterday expressing concern about the impact of the verdict mostly on the 2024 election. >> could you support somebody who has been found liable for sexual battery? >> i would have a difficult time doing so. >> he just is not suited to be president of the united states

and to be the person who we hold up to the children and the world as the leader of the free world. at some point, when the people who work with you, your cabinet secretaries and juries conclude that you've done something severely wrong it's time to recognize the great majority of those who worked with him is right and he's wrong. >> one of the things that's most important to me is which acceptable conservative candidate represents the best opportunity to beat joe biden. and on that measure things like what we're experiencing today will factor in. >> i do not think he could win the presidency. and so i, i think regardless of what you think about him as an individual, to me electability is the sole criteria. >> should he drop out of the race? >> i don't think he cares what i think. >> senator conip. >> i don't mean to be cheeky. i'm just telling you. >> senator cornyn said this is

why he can't win in a general election. do you agree with that? >> yes. >> i think it's kind of baked in. and i think all these prosecutors are out to get him. but it does have a cumulative effect and people have to decide if they're dealing with the drama. >> mike rounds, mitt romney, kevin cornyn, and john thune saying donald trump cannot win the nomination. some voices, obviously those in the house we heard dismissing the charges and the entire process of american jurisprudence and everything else, what is the impact on this? now there is a decision, he's been held liable, donald trump, for sexual assault and defamation. does this change anything about the dynamic inside the party? >> it gives republicans another moment to face the question of how seriously do they want to win in 2024? because a general election and primary are two different

things. when donald trump was indicted by the manhattan da a month or two back that helped him in the polls. and the bifurcation between the house members largely in lock step with him who want to do his bidding and are supporting him versus the senate who hit on the issue of electability. mitt romney is often a trump critic so setting him aside but someone like a thune or a kennedy, cassidy, they do -- cornyn, who's a member of leadership, do occasionally criticize trump but often are in lock step but they say here we don't think a candidate with this baggage, more or less, can win. the video is a response yesterday to the decision is reprehensible and something a decade ago republicans would have rejected outright. whether now that the anti-trump forces can take a moment to try to coalesce around another

candidate whether it's a governor desantis or someone else remains to be seen. no one has stepped to the forefront and he's still dominant. whether there's others who take a hard look at the moment particularly with other indictments coming down the road can we support this guy if we want to win next fall? >> we're joined by two of the attorneys representing e. jean carroll. thank you both for being here. shawn let me start with you. what was decisive for the jury? >> it was a verdict that the jury who heard from e. jean carroll for three days, she sat on the witness stand and answered question after question for three days that they unanimously believed her and it only took them a couple hours to decide that. >> it did come back quickly. you were in the room taking some of the depositions. that was not your voice we heard on the tape for donald trump last october. how important were those moments

when he said she's not my type but then thought it was his ex-wife marla maples in the photograph. >> the deposition that was taken by robby cap lin was not that he continued to deny that he sexually assaulted ms. carroll but doubled down with she's not my type. we played him the "access hollywood" video, he smiled through it as we played it and said fortunately or unfortunately this is what stars do, we get to do these things. so i think it was important the jury heard him say those words from his mouth. >> and pointed to your colleague and said you're not my type either. >> so one of the questions asked in the last 12 hours or so is this distinction between sexual abuse and rape. how do you explain that to the viewers? what's the difference there? >> the difference is there are legal elements to both of these

ideas. i think at the end of the day, the takeaway is, donald trump said i wasn't there. i don't know her. it never happened. and so, the jury's verdict was resounding in rejecting that. so i think that's sort of the takeaway there. >> so on this idea, the defamation part of it, too, what do you think was decisive there for this jury to come back with the formula on this part as well? >> so if jury finds the sexual assault happened. okay. so now he's lied about it. and then they're asked, is he doing it with ill will? is it out of spite, those sorts of questions? actual malice is one of the terms. so that's layered on to this idea. not only is he denying it? he's lying, he's lying in a way the jury found was spiteful and made out of ill will.

>> mika? >> i'm curious, shawn, first of all what we're seeing here play out, which i think in the history of donald trump is historic. and it's probably the first time donald trump, the former president, the former financer or whatever he calls himself, is held accountable for his words and it's his words that brought him down. not only including sexual abuse but defamation that was at play here. it was really the defamation that he inflicted on e. jean carroll that actually prompted this whole thing. so tell us what the strategy is for his appeal. e. jean carroll is validated on so many levels here. but how does she get the money? >> as you said, mika, there will be an appeal process that will probably take a year or more to play out. i think we saw donald trump promising even before there was a verdict yesterday promising

that he would appeal. you know, i think the trial was strong, the judge was extremely strong. his rulings were sound. we don't expect there to be any actual issues on appeal. so we do expect that e. jean will be paid at some point. it's just going to take a little bit of time to get through the courts. >> george conway has a question next. george? >> yeah. does he have anything, in particular, given the lack of evidence that he presented? is there any way he could win even if he could find some kind of legal error in the charge or anything the judge did? i doubt it. >> i don't think so. particularly because as we know while we saw his words on the deposition, where he was legally compelled to be questioned. he didn't actually bother to show up at the trial himself and subject himself to the same sort of cross examination that his attorney did of e. jean carroll for two days. >> let me ask you a question the

people i know who were sympathetic to e. jean carroll, didn't like donald trump, were asking, why come forward now? in her book a couple years ago and put herself through this. taking on donald trump in a public forum is no small task. why did she do it? >> she was going to write a book, what do we need men for, which we heard a lot about at trial. it was going to be a tour around the united states eating at restaurants named for women in cities named after women. and basically the day she was going to leave the harvey weinstein allegations came out, the me too movement was happening and she said how can i write a book about other pep and their thoughts omen without including what's happened to me in my life and encounters with men. part was a list of men who mistreated her.

some were si tier cal and others were important. the donald trump portion was an excerpt she felt she had to include and was silent for too long. >> what were the conversations like, not just making this public but taking on donald trump in a public forum knowing what his reaction would be, his supporters would be, members of congress would dismiss her out of hand. was there any doubt about bringing this case? >> there was no doubt about bringing this case. she had doubts about whether to go public with her allegations, she feared he would do what he had ended up doing. but someone who had been an advise columnist, a journalist her life she felt it was time instead of giving advice to other women it was time to talk about herself. >> he had been attacking her throughout, he's still doing it.

he did it on truth social. he's on the trail in the coming days. how do you prepare your client but through the appeals process as the attacks continue. >> i think she's prepared for it. she's been with standing his attacks for the last four years. she expects there will be more. but the fact a jury of her peers and his peers agreed with her and believed her, is going to support her as he continues to make the outlandish claims. >> jennifer palmeri has a question for you. >> obviously e. jean carroll is your client but when you were arguing this case did you think about a bigger principle that was at stake? >> mike, go ahead. >> absolutely. i think for shawn as well and robby and e. jean, we hope this gives anyone who has suffered

sexual abuse or rape we hope they think to themselves i can come forward and people will believe me. i can say my truth and i'm not go to be dismissed. i'm not going to be ridiculed. and it's not going to be this -- i'm not going to walk into court and have my past dragged out. the people are going to believe me. and we hope it gives courage, you know, to anyone who has been through something like this. >> so shawn, i'm curious, moving forward, especially preparing for an appeal, are there any constraints as to what you can include as you prepare to defend yourself against an appeal, prepare to defend e. jean carroll, like the manhattan d.a. case the judge is saying he can't talk about evidence and things like that. if he continues to defame her in the public arena over and over and over again, can that be used in the appeal? >> it can't be used in the

appeal in this case. in this case the appeal is contained in the record that's existing now. we have another case against him, i'll note, before his statement in october defaming her, he actually issued a series of statements back in june of 2019, right after she came forward in which he said more of the same, this is a hoax, she's a paid operative of the democratic party, she's not my type, those things. so e. jean brought her first lawsuit in november of 2019 that's on a different track because donald trump is saying you can't sue me for something i did while i was president. that's making its way through court. it's harder to fight it now that there's a jury that found he sexually abused her and denied it, lied about it, so that case is still alive. >> it continues. attorneys representing e. jean carroll, thank you very much. >> thanks, guys. >> for being on the show this

morning. we appreciate it. ahead, e. jean carroll will be our guest this morning. on the heels of yesterday's historic verdict. >> plus another big legal story, sources tell nbc news doj prosecutors have charged republican congressman george santos with federal offenses. what we're learning about that. also this morning, still no solution in sight after president biden held a meeting with congressional leaders on the debt ceiling yesterday. we'll look at where things stand and the latest on the situation at the southern border as communities brace for a sharp rise in migrants once title 42 ends tomorrow. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ning joe. we'll be right back. from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b.

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beautiful shot of the new york city skyline as the sun is coming up over the big apple. it is 41 past the hour. welcome back. four sources tell nbc news, republican congressman george santos has been indicted on federal charges. the news comes as santos faces mounting legal issues and is the subject of multiple congressional, federal, and state investigations. nbc news reports in december, two federal law enforcement sources confirmed that federal prosecutors from the eastern district of new york had opened an investigation into santos and were examining his finances, including potential irregularities, involving financial disclosures and loans he made to his congressional campaign. a source with direct knowledge tells nbc news, santos is expected to appear at the long island federal courthouse today. santos and his lawyer did not

respond to requests for comment. george conway we don't know too much yet. how long do you think he knew about this? and, i don't know, any idea what this could be? >> my guess is that he's known he's been under investigation for a while. at least since all the information started coming out about him. there's just no way he hasn't had to respond to subpoenas of his campaign finance information and so on and so forth. there's so much to choose from here. we saw the disclosures where it was charging the cash maximum of $199.99 or something like that. charging that amount in cash for payments to a restaurant, a single restaurant, every meal cost $199.99. that's clearly fraudulent. you have the money you don't know where the money came from. you have the sorry story about him ripping off the fund for the

poor, sick dog. so much to choose from. it'll be interesting to see what the feds have on him. but there's going to be something. when you lie that much. you're going to lie on a piece of paper that actually matters for something or lie about something involving money and that's going to get you into state or federal trouble. and for some people it takes longer like our friend in florida, but some people really get there faster and i guess that's mr. santos. >> i'm thinking about his office. everyone in his office, how could he operate with this hanging over him, having to provide all these disclosures? i would think his office would know about this too. >> his office, i don't know to what extent he's kept his office separate from his campaign operation what his campaign operation is. we don't know the inner workings of george santos and how -- how he has been able to function. >> strange.

>> but it's going to be -- it's got to be untenable for him to function now and we'll see if mr. mccarthy has the gumption to actually do something at this point or continue being shameless and pretending that santos is a normal members of congress. >> george conway thank you for being on this morning. coming up on "morning joe," cities near the southern border bracing for the end of a pandemic-era policy used to block migrants from entering the country. we'll go live to el paso, which has seen a rise in crossings with more migrants expected to arrive when title 42 expires tomorrow. elsewhere in texas, communities are still reeling after a pair of recent mass shootings. we'll hear from a leading voice on gun reform in congress when senator chris murphy joins the conversation. "morning joe" will be right back.

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title 42 is expected to expire tomorrow night. cities are already expecting to see an influx with 3,300 near el paso waiting to get into the country. joining us now from el paso, correspondent julia ainsley. tell us what it looks like there and what officials are expecting to see in the next several days. >> reporter: i'm going to talk quietly because i want to be respectful of the people sleeping here next to me. outside sacred heart epicenterf where a lot of migrants are sleeping on the streets after they cross the border, either after they get to border patrol or unable to get room inside the shelters. el paso became quickly overcrowded. they had as many as 2,000 people

sleeping on the streets just a few days ago, but something happened yesterday that's pretty significant, is border patrol started to move more of these people out of this area and on to their destinations further into the country in an effort to try to clear out these streets before that expected surge. as you mentioned, title 42 will lift at 11:59 eastern. that will be 9:59 here tomorrow night. and they're expecting to see numbers crossing the southern border get above 10,000. that's like nothing we've seen before. right now, though, the numbers across the border, i'm told, are already averaging over 8,000 per day. and inside border patrol facilities, they're already well over capacity. it's something the administration is talking about now, and they're trying to put forward a really tough face, tough policies, to show that the border will not be open when title 42 lifts. and in fact, they're going to raise the bar, what it means to claim asylum. border officials i've spoken to say that won't do anything about the processing time. without title 42, it will take them a lot longer to figure out who can stay in the country, and

who will be deported or expelled. and that is going to lead to massive backlogs and potentially many more people like this sleeping on the streets, willie. >> as you say, title 42 basically told migrants who came in said, you could be expelled without an asylum hearing. they could be kept out and that will expire just tomorrow night, midnight local time here on the east coast. what is the biden administration doing to prepare for this? obviously, they've been criticized in many quarters for their handling of their situation at the border. for their handling of title 42. what is the plan from the administration? what is the plan from homeland security? >> in the short-term, we know they've surged resources down here. there are more border patrol agents that have come to these areas. they are putting more money into i.c.e. and into transportation. and they've also put down 1,500 active duty troops, although those people will just be supporting border patrol, not doing the actual apprehensions of migrants. a lot of their policies and planning has to do more in the long-term. they want migrants to be able to

apply for asylum or for appointments here from in-country. they're going to go ahead and set up processing centers in guatemala and columbia with more to follow. they want to raise the bar on asylum, so basically if you haven't applied already for asylum in a country you passed through on your way here, you would be ineligible when you came to the united states, unless you meet other criteria to show that potentially you could be tortured if you were sent pack to your home country. there are a lot of ways that they're trying to make it in the long-term, so it's harder to cross the border, and easier to get protections from your home country. but look, staring down the clock, 9:59 here, local, tomorrow night, those processing centers aren't open. a lot of people say that they have run out of all options. it is their last resort. they can no longer stay in their home countries. a lot of people coming from places like venezuela, guatemala, cuba, haiti, nicaragua, you name it, places where are in people are in

desperate situations. and thousands are waiting just over the border in juarez waiting to come in. >> we'll find out what happens just over 40 hours from now. julia ainsley down at the border in el paso, texas. thanks so much. we appreciate it. >> jonathan la mir, the question for the biden administration is, are they ready for this? title 42 has been in place just over three years. there's no telling what's going to happen when the border opens in this way. >> there are real concerns among democrats in the white house that they aren't ready. senior aides told me this was one of their real vulnerabilities. that they hadn't gotten their handle on what to do at the border. the first rumblings coming. a year later, i'm not sure much of that has changed. there are people inside and outside the administration that are deeply nervous as to what the next few days will hold. an influx of migrants is expected. we saw the president committed some troops to the border there. they said to provide some support and relief to officers

who were already there. it is going to be a political firestorm. and we know jen palmieri, that republicans have already, since the moment president has took office, has made the border and immigration a real point of attack. and that's only going to escalate after what we assume the images we see in the coming days. what will your counsel be here and secondly, how big of a vulnerability is this going to be, as we do start thinking about a re-election campaign? >> i think it's smart that they're talking about more about the issue and what they're doing about it. i know that -- i've said the same conversations you've had that it's a really difficult problem, it's a huge logistical problem that the white house is facing. they are without any sort of prospect for congress to actually deal with the problem, which we need to know is their job. it is -- the administration is limited to what they can do about it. so i think julia just did the same report about what they are

doing. they have brought more resources down there. they have the national guard standing by to assist. secretary blinken is doing more -- they're doing more asylum processing in country in central america, so to try to limit the people who do flow here. i think they want us to know, everything that they are trying to do to stem like a very -- what is likely to be a difficult problem. and then you saw, you know, what the president said last night when he got a question about it, he said, he said, how's it going to go when title 42 ends, mr. president? and he says, it's going to be difficult, it's going to be messy. we'll have to see in those few days what occurs, but i think they're trying to brace people for yes, we are absent action from congress, you're going to see a lot of chaos at the border. >> title 42 ends at the end of the day tomorrow. we'll have much more on this story coming up. also ahead, a look at stories making front pages across the country. and an update on a bipartisan

senate bill that could give parents substantial control over the access their kids have to social media. "morning joe" is coming right back. media "morning joe" is coming right back are we getting a dog? a great dane? two great danes?! i know. giant uncle dane and his giant beard. maybe a dragon? no, dragons are boring. twin sisters! and one is a robot and one is a knight. and i'll be on the side of... the octopus. rawr!!! the volkswagen atlas. more room for possibilities. i'm your overly competitive brother. check. psych! and i'm about to steal this game from you just like i stole kelly carter in high school. you got no game dude, that's a foul! and now you're ready to settle the score. game over. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, well, you could end up paying for all this yourself. so get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem,

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how much their accident case is let our injury attorneys know he how much their accident cget the best result possible. what's your reaction to [ inaudible ]? >> i think the new york legal system is off the rails when it comes to donald trump. >> what's happening in some of these courtrooms in manhattan, i don't even know. not going to get into it. >> it's a jury of his peers finding him -- >> serious? come on, don't say that stuff to me. jury of my peers, yeah, whatever. what else you got? >> i mean, that's pretty much it. this is a sexual abuse conviction, a finding -- >> it's an allegation from what, 25 years ago? >> a jury -- >> no, actually, he said in his deposition -- >> a jury of his peers, that might work for some people?

like people who are americans? like people who believe in the constitution of the united states. like people who believe in madisonian democracy. like people who took civics classes growing up and understand that the jury system is the backbone of our legal system. like, if you -- but, of course, it's not really, i guess, that much of a leap for people who don't believe in the rule of law anymore, for republicans who used to be in madisonian law, for republicans who used to believe in juries, for republicans who used to believe in peaceful transitions. but they were willing to throw away one foundational characteristic of american democracy after another characteristic of american democracy all to mindlessly and

constantly defend well, now a guy who tried to overthrow an election and a guy who has been found guilty, yes, yes, sorry this is offensive to lindsey graham, a jury of donald trump's peers found him liable for sexual abuse. claire mccaskill, senator claire mccaskill -- >> former prosecutor. >> former prosecutor. senator, it is unimaginable -- let's go back to the time when i was in congress back a hundred years ago, it's unimaginable that any member of congress would ever speak this way about the american jury system or the rule of law or support somebody who was found liable for sexual abuse or someone who said, let's terminate the constitution. i would suspect even recently, when you were in the united states senate, this sort of talk just didn't happen until donald

trump came along. i mean, how deeply disturbing and offensive is it that you have republicans running around willing to now throw out the american jury system, because it doesn't line up with what donald trump wants it to be. >> yeah, you know, it takes me back. i spent several years as a young lawyer in the courtroom, prosecuting almost entirely sexual assault cases. and this is a case in terms of dynamics that i'm very, very familiar with. because what you have here in our american judicial system is a place where people go, prosecutors go and present facts to a jury that has been selected after a screening process, and keep in mind, this particular jury of six men and three women had to answer a lot of questions about who they were, where they got their information. in fact, some of them that were on the jury were following

right-wing media. this was not, you know, a -- you didn't have a test to be progressive and to be a democrat to be on this jury. you had to convince the lawyers from both sides that you could be fair. and donald trump's lawyers had an opportunity to strike jurors that they didn't think could be fair. so this jury is seated and now their job is very simple. their job is to hear the facts and importantly judge the credibility of the witnesses. and what this jury did is they watched this woman for three days, almost two of those days entirely being questioned by donald trump's very experienced trial lawyer, who spent days and hours trying to pick apart what she said and how she said it. those jurors got back in that deliberation room and they took the law that the judge had given them and they took the facts that they heard and they judged credibility of jean carroll versus donald trump. and those people who had sworn

an oath that they would follow the law and be true to the law found in carroll, and by the way, they found it in very short order. that they believed her, that this had happened, and that donald trump was lying. the only thing about the verdict that i thought was strange was how low the damages were for punitive damages. punitive damages is that part of the verdict where a jury can punish the defendant in a way that would be meaningful to him. i was surprised it was only $20,000 of punitive damages. to me, a guy who boasts that he's one of the richest guys in the world, $20,000 doesn't really punish him. other than that, i think for a complex case with a lot of decisions they had to make, the speed of this verdict tells you all you need to know about the credibility of donald trump and the credibility of this brave woman who came forward with her

obviously true story of what he did to her. >> and willie, it's so disheartening to see again, one more thing that republicans are willing to trash. they're willing to trash the united states constitution and defend a guy who said he wants to terminate it because he didn't win an election, they're willing to trash the united states military, and they do repeatedly. they will tell you the constant trashing of the military by donald trump and others is causing harm to the united states military. but they're trashing the military because the military wouldn't step up and take part in the coup. they're trashing the fbi and the law enforcement officers saying they want to defund the fbi because the fbi actually, well, they had to get top-secret documents back from mar-a-lago and donald trump kept lying about it, but now they're trashing the fbi. law enforcement, they celebrate people who beat the hell out of cops, almost kill cops on january 6th. several people died afterwards,

the family says, because of the mob on january the 6th. and now, and now, they're willing to trash the jury system. again, something that's elemental to the rule of law, something that's elemental to our democracy. they're just willing to trash it because in one day, they don't like that a jury of donald trump's peers, six men and three women, that donald trump's lawyers signed off on, as claire said, they found that he actually did sexually abused e. jean carroll. >> and defamed her. >> now it's to hell with the jury system. >> this is a cult. >> there is nothing that these cultists won't put above donald trump. and they trash american

democracy every single day to do it. >> the default position, as you say, is, if it's bad for donald trump, then it must be corrupt. there must be something up. there must be a conspiracy. it must be the deep state. january 6th didn't happen the way they're telling you it happened. it didn't happen the way your eyes are telling you it happened. it couldn't have happened, because it's donald trump. and this is where it's led them now. i mean, marco rubio is not some crazy house member. he's not -- well, i won't list names, but he's not one of that group in the house. he's a united states senator from the state of florida saying, the jury is a joke. that's his quote. and the congressman from florida, byron donalds, who is questioning now the city of a jury of your peers, who said, quote, don't say that stuff to me, that definitely doesn't work for me, the jury of your peers. that guy received -- he received votes to be speaker of the house. and he doesn't believe -- >> it doesn't work for me. willie, what does that mean? it doesn't work for me. is he not an american?

does he not believe in american democracy and the rule of law? what might work for somebody else? yeah, it works for americans! and it always has, until a failed game show host is found guilty of a jury of his peers? it's just ridiculous, willie. >> it's amazing what they're willing to throw away to stay in the good graces of donald trump and to hang on to power. joining us now here at the table, brooklyn reporter for courthouse news, nina palano. she was in the courthouse for the entirety of this trial. it's great to have you here. i'll ask you what we asked e. jean carroll's attorneys when they were here a minute ago. what do you think was decisive to that jury yesterday? >> that's a great question. and you have to wonder what was going on in that room when they deliberate. i think there was -- from e. jean carroll's side, there was a very clear narrative. there were three different women who told very similar stories

that illustrated this pattern. then you had donald trump describing the same pattern on the "access hollywood" tape, which was recorded the same year as one of the women described him sexually assaulting her at mar-a-lago. you had him defending those comments in his deposition tape and not showing up to court, and even though donald trump's attorneys did a good job in his summation. he wrote down all of the potential moments that could be inconsistent or tried to raise as much doubt as possible. i think it's a clear narrative and too much cross-examine on her side. >> you've covered a lot of trial. you know the court system pretty well. are you surprised number one that donald trump didn't show up. other than that, they didn't

present a case other than the credibility of e. jean carroll's. >> there was no doubt that before the case was ramping up to trial, the attorneys were signaling in letters leading up to that they may not. he said in one letter, that he wishes to appear, but there may be logistical issues. and robbie kaplan fired back in her own letter, suggesting that he's doing a favor to new york city, she called that out. and so i think, you know, his lawyers didn't really suggest that he was going to come, but he was certainly tweeting -- sorry, posting on truth social about it. and then, of course, he had that post, as the jury was going out. he posted truth social saying -- suggesting he hadn't had a chance to come to court. and that he was being silenced and the judge ended up not giving the jury a special instruction on that and just sort of said, we're dealing with what we're dealing with here. >> let's take a look at the deposition, which also played a key role in trump being found

liable for sexual abuse and defamation and has to pay $5 million and the attorneys say the appeal looks pretty sound, if they try. but here's donald trump, not helping himself at all, talking about celebrities, like himself, being able to do anything they want to women. >> and you say, and again, this has become very famous in this video, "i just start kissing them, it's like a magnet, just kiss, i don't even wait, and when our star, they let you do it, you can do anything, grab 'em by the [ bleep ], you can do anything," that's what you said, correct? >> historically, that's true with stars. >> that's true with stars, they can grab women by the [ bleep ]? >> if you look over the last million years, that's been largely true. not always, but largely true. unfortunately or fortunately. >> you consider yourself to be a star? >> i think you can say that,

yeah. >> "fortunately." he says, "fortunately," fortunately, he can sexually abuse women. >> and there's so much more in that deposition. and i urge those republicans who are clinging to their cult leader to watch that deposition and think about how trump has normalized so many bad acts, taking dirt from a political operative to take down a political rival, from a foreign leader, even, he's desensitized that to us. he's talked about terminating the constitution. many believe he prompted an insurrection, trying to overthrow an election. >> he prompted an insurrection. >> it happened. right in front of -- people are serving time for their cult leader. so i urge these republicans to watch this deposition. and watch this man atrociously insult the woman deposing him,

but also basically convict himself or whatever the word is, finding himself liable for sexual abuse. and, is it really worth it? is the cult leader really worth it when you look at his political wings? we'll put that aside, but for those republicans, you are part of a cult. he has normalized everything in your mind. nina, i'm just wondering -- >> really quickly, he's also normalized losing for republicans. >> yes, he has! >> in 2017. >> they can't get out of it. that's a cult! >> they lost in 2020. they lost in 2021. >> you hurt yourself for a cult leader. >> they lost in 2022. this is not someone that's taking them to the political glory land. this is a dude -- this is like groundhog's day where bill murphy drives over a cliff with a gopher or whatever it is. groundhog. >> it's right there in the

title, joe! >> whatever! it's early! but the thing is, i'm just sorting through, what was that thing? they give you no clues. but anyway -- now every day with a groundhog. now i know what it was. >> i get it! >> you know how tired i am. >> i know how tired you are. >> but every day, every day, they lose. and yet they cling to this cult leader. >> listen to me, that's what cult leaders do! cult leaders say, i want you to hurt yourself, and they do it. they want you to do worse -- there are stories in history of cult leaders bringing down an entire community because you'll do anything -- and you are at that point. you've been at that point, republicans, lindsey graham and others, you've been at that point for years and you're bringing down the country with you when you do that. >> you're just hurting yourself. >> you're just hurting yourself. >> well, i'm just curious

from -- i just want to ask nina what it was like in the courtroom to see trump's word, trump's words finally being used against him, and him being held accountable for his words in his deposition. >> you know, i think the moment before any verdict is read is always really tense and the energy in the courtroom is palpable, but this more than other cases i've covered, definitely, everyone was sort of holding their breath and weight. of course, that first finding, no, on the evidence, showing rape had been proved. everybody -- there was a sharp inhale, and then, you know, after that, it just came out all in e. jean carroll's favor. and you could see her. she can speak to how she was reacting herself, but it looked like from the back, at least, she was nodding a little bit. and then when trump's attorney asked to poll the jury, she turned around and was smiling, looking at them.

the jury didn't really give that back. they very dutifully kind of filed out. they weren't hamming it out and smiling at her or anything like that. they were clearly taking it very seriously. i think that even though this wasn't a criminal trial, it had the feel -- i think for two reasons. one, clearly the verdict came down to whether or not the jury believed that -- believed e. jean carroll and believed that trump had sexually assaulted her. and two, under the adult survivor's act, the definition of the sexual abuse are borrowed from criminal definitions. so throughout the trial, there was this feeling, the way questions were being asked and framed, it felt a lot like, even though it wasn't that criminal conviction, it did really have that feeling, i think, in a lot of ways. >> brooklyn reporter for courthouse news, nina pullano, thank you so much, nina, for coming on the show. we appreciate your reporting. so here now is just is a sampling of the long history of misogyny we have seen over the years from donald trump, who is

once again the republican front-runner for president. >> i'll tell you the funniest is that i'll go backstage before a show and everyone's getting dressed and ready and anything else and no men are anywhere -- and i'm allowed to go in because i'm the owner of the pageant, therefore, i'm inspecting it. i want to make sure -- is everyone okay? you know, they're standing there with no clothes. is everybody okay? and you see these incredible-looking women. and so i sort of get away with things like that. i'm automatically attracted to beautiful women and just start kissing them. it's like a magnet. and when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. >> whatever you want. >> grab 'em by the [ bleep ]. you can do anything. >> you've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals. your twitter account -- >> only rosie o'donnell. >> you know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever. >> where did hillary go?

they had to start the debate without her? phase ii. i know where she went. it's disgusting. i don't want to talk about it. no, it's too disgusting. she was favored to win and she got schlonged. she lost. she lost. i never liked horseface. i never liked -- it's just not. it's a terrible thing. that wouldn't be the one! >> for the president, horseface is just the latest insult aimed at the looks of women he doesn't like. take his 2016 opponent, carly fiorina. look at that face, then-candidate trump commented. would anyone vote for that. >> i'm not going to spend a single cycle wondering what donald trump means. >> on former miss universe, alina machado. >> she joined a massive amount of weight and it was a real problem. >> there was this about jessica leads who accused him of sexual assault. >> yeah, i'm going to go after -- believe me, she would

not be my first choice, that i can tell you. >> it's not easy to tick me off. i don't get angry often. but you mess with my wife, you mess with my kids, that'll do it every time! donald, you're a sniveling coward and leave heidi the hell alone. >> so will you support him as the nominee? >> i'm going to beat him. >> reporter: p lashing out at democratic senator kyrsten gillibrand today, the first female senator to call on him to resign, tweeting, lightweight senator kirsten gillibrand, a total flunky for chuck schumer, and someone who would come to my office begging for campaign contributions not so long ago and would do anything for them. gillibrand firing back -- >> it was a sexist smear attempting to silence my voice and i will not be silenced on this issue. >> reporter: footage from 1992 found in the nbc archives shows the future president welcoming jeffrey epstein to his mar-a-lago estate. the get-together more than a decade before epstein bleeded guilty to prostitution charges in florida.

both men are seen enjoying themselves, trump pointing out women dancing in front of them. >> and it gets worse than all of that. >> bleeding badly from the face. >> that was right on our show. willie tried to hide it from me, but for all the world's see, trump's tweet about me. but this is the kind of thing that we watched to unravel over the past, six, eight years, and jen palmieri, you know, the media definitely -- i mean, there are outlets that continue to give him a free-wheeling platform and allow his lies to go unchecked and lift him up and -- so there's that part, but then there's politicians in washington completely addicted to someone who takes things that are abnormal and normalizes them on a daily basis. this misogyny just one part of

it. >> so, his words matter, the words of the republican leader that continue to prop him up matter and also juries matter. and the verdict last night, it's the second time that donald trump's been held accountable for his actions by a jury, right? a couple months ago, we had the indictment from the new york grand jury to indict him. now we've had a jury come back to say that he's liable for sexual abuse. and this does, even as republicans continue to prop him up, it does have an impact. first of all, for women to have this validation, finally, that when you say things as he did on the "access hollywood" tape, when that's part of a case against him in court for sexually abusing a woman, that matters and has an impact and women shouldn't be subjected to that. we have those rights, even as they continue to erode under a trump-led republican party. so i don't think that we should

discount -- it's really dismaying that republicans continue to prop him up. but don't discount the power of that verdict and, you know, i do think that it will, it's sort of validating for women, enraging for women that it continues to happen that republicans do prop him up. and i think they need to pay a price for that. >> i think we've gotten so used to saying that donald trump is not going to pay a price more this, for that, he's going to get away with everything, no more. i think yesterday was extraordinarily importantly, especially when you team it up with what happened with the abortion ruling, with dobbs. you started seeing women breaking away. and claire mccaskill, the impact of dodds, the impact of these horrid extreme abortion laws. the impact of donald trump being found liable by a jury of his peers for sexually assaulting woman and saying, maybe it's okay, maybe it's good that stars can continue to sexually abuse women. how does that impact the race next year?

well, republicans know this already. and they'll just keep their mouths shut. women in the atlanta suburbs, women in the phoenix suburbs, women in the philly suburbs, women in the detroit suburbs. women in every state that matters turned off, as they were in '22, turned off again by not only abortion, but donald trump. and this latest verdict against him. >> you know, it's interesting, if you look at these republicans, and what they are failing to do, they are really handcuffed by the math in their party. and they have quit seeing themselves as leaders. they have quit seeing themselves as the kind of men and women who can step up and lead their party out of this desert. they are now, as you all have said, in cultish behavior. and when i look at the senators who were going half juries yesterday, whether it was marco rubio or lindsey graham, lindsey

graham particularly, this is a former prosecutor. i have watched him in hearings do a very competent and good and strong cross-examination. he knows, he knows that this was a fair trial. he knows that. but he is so captured by the math, that donald trump while he doesn't have the majority of the country, he still has a majority of the republican party totally following him lockstep. and they are going to believe his lie about this trial, just like they believed his lie about the election. the cowardice of the republicans that are refusing to lead at this moment is stunning, and they deserve what they're going to get electorally. >> let's bring into the conversation, democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut here to talk about a range of issues. but i want to ask you for your reaction to the judgment yesterday in new york against the former president of the united states. the likely nominee to be the republican candidate for president to run against joe

biden, that he was found liable for sexual abuse and for defamation. we did hear from a group of republicans. we played that earlier, some of your colleagues, who say he's unelectable, he shouldn't be the candidate based on this and a series of other issues. what's your reaction to the judgment yesterday? >> well, i share your outrage and real worry about the attacks on this decision and the attacks on the jury system. what really defines a democracy in opposition of every other kind of form of government, it's that we care more about the rules than we care about power. and what you're seeing in the republican party is a injection of the rules, a rejection of a sense that there are some things that are right and wrong. and everything is now for the donald trump cult a means to political power. you can justify any means, as long as the end is donald trump ends up in power. so, you know, this is about their attacks on the jury system, and this trial, but it's

also about their defense of clarence thomas. this idea that we can't agree that it's out of bounds to accept millions of dollars worth of gifting from a party before the court, as a supreme court justice. over and over and over and over again as long as it justifies donald trump being elected or republicans winning cases on the supreme court. you're seeing this republican party demonstrate over and over again that the rules don't matter if the end of power is served by the means. >> as we've pointed out, senator marco rubio, who himself is a lawyer, went to lawyer and said, quote, the jury is a joke, talking about the jury system. let's move on to other matters. guns are a question you've tackled now for well over a decade. after the shooting in uvalde almost a year ago, you were able to come together with republicans to get some bipartisan legislation done on gun safety.

another horror just a few days ago in allen, texas, where people shopping at an outdoor outlet mall were mowed down by a man with a semiautomatic rifle. we talked about this yesterday. there's a 6-year-old boy somewhere in texas right now who's being told that his parents and his little brother are not coming back and he'll grow up without parents and without a brother. do you see anymore movement. you pushed and got movement about a year ago. is there anything else to be done on the federal level about guns? >> absolutely. and what you're seeing is some pretty extraordinary momentum around the country, in texas, the state legislature is actually moving forward on a bill that would raise the age to buy an assault weapon to 21. it still faces hurdles and barriers, but that's a significant development. in tennessee, the republican governor has called a special session to pass red flag laws. so in very republican states, you are seeing that republican politicians have come to the conclusion that they can't win races and stay in power unless

they do something about this carnage. that pressure will be exerted a to the federal level, as well. so we're meeting as a democratic caucus tomorrow to talk about our path forward. we're exploring potential avenues of progress or compromise with the republicans. i think at some point, even if we can't get a deal with the republicans to raise the age to 21 or require a background check on every gun purchase, we'll probably have to take some votes in the senate, to at least show the american public where everybody stands. but of course, my preference is always to try to find that common ground. and we're involved in reaching out to republicans this week to see if there's any potential. >> senator, in another effort to protect children in a different way, you are part of an effort to pass legislation that would ban kids under the age of 13 from using social media. it would also require parental permission if you're under 18 and prevent any targeted advertisements to children, anyone under 18 years old. give us an update as to why you think this is important.

and also what unique of its future? can this pass? >> well, i think you're seeing a really interesting coming together of republicans and democrats around this question of protecting our children. and giving more tools to parents when it comes to how kids interact online. i have a teenager and a preteen, and it's really scary to me that when they go online, when they're on social media sites, i have no idea what they're seeing. they are seeing a lot of violent content, soft-core pornography. if they're feeling sad, they can very easily get to videos that are glorifying self-harm. so we've introduced a bill, a group of really conservative republicans, a group of pretty progressive democrats to say three things. one, you have to do age verification of a social media site like tiktok to make sure there are no kids under 13 online. parents have to give personality for kids 13 to 17 online, and social media sites can't use

kids' data to boost their algorithm, right? you can't purposefully addict a kid to social media based upon what they're swiping and what they're watching. this is a tough bill, no doubt. but i think you are seeing more and more republicans and democrats agreeing that we've got to do something and give parents some help here. >> absolutely. senator chris murphy of connecticut, thank you very much for being on this morning. and still ahead on "morning joe," writer e. jean carroll is our guest this morning on the heels of yesterday's historic verdict. we'll talk to her about the jury finding donald trump the former president liable of sexual abuse and defamation. plus, republican congressman george santos expected to appear in a new york courtroom later this morning to phase federal charges. we'll be joined by republican congressman mike lawler, one of several new york lawmakers who have called on congressman santos to step down. also this morning,

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four sources tell nbc news republican congressman george santos has been indicted on federal charges. this news comes as santos faces mounting legal issues and is the subject of multiple congressional, federal, and state investigations. nbc news reports in december two federal law enforcement sources confirm that federal prosecutors from the eastern district of new york had opened an investigation into santos and were examining his finances, including potential irregularities involving financial disclosures

and loans he made to his congressional campaign. a source with direct knowledge tells nbc news santos is expected to appear at the long island federal courthouse today. santos and his lawyers did not respond to requests for comment. joining us now, republican congressman mike lawler of new york. congressman, you have repeatedly called on george santos to resign from congress. your reaction to the news of these charges? >> well, it is not surprising, but disappointing, nonetheless. obviously, his conduct has been embarrassing and disgraceful. you know, none of us are perfect, but, you need to have a little bit of humility in this business. and if this is the best we can do, representing us in congress or at any level of government, i think it speaks volumes to where we are as a country.

and so, you know, i think if george had any decency or dignity, he would resign. i have repeatedly called on him to resign, since these allegations first surfaced. because it's just, it's a distraction, first and foremost to all of us in congress, trying to do the work, especially in new york, representing our districts. but more importantly, i just don't see how he can serve. i don't see how he can represent his constituents well. and do his job. >> congressman, reports yesterday that the white house meeting between the president and the leaders didn't go well. some saying that kevin mccarthy was disrespectful to the president of the united states. kevin mccarthy, the speaker later saying, denying that he called him a liar. and the president is coming to your district today, obviously, it's a district that both joe

biden and you. curious, what's your view of the best way forward in resolving this debt ceiling crisis? >> joe, throughout this entire discussion, i've had three parameters. number one, the president, the speaker, and the senate majority leader must negotiate in good faith. number two, we must cut spending. both parties are to blame. there's no question about that. but we cannot continue to spend at the levels that we have and incur debt at the levels that we have. we are over 31 trillion in debt and counting. i remember back in 2006, seeing the national debt clock at $9 trillion. so we have added a lot of debt over the last decade and a half and it's unsustainable. and finally, we cannot default. i think all of us in government have a responsibility and an obligation to work together. these are serious challenges. everybody has their political stance. but at the end of the day, the

president and the speaker and the senate majority leader have an obligation and a responsibility to sit down. speaker mccarthy requested on multiple occasions to meet with the president and the senate majority leader. they met back in february. it took 97 days for a second meeting to occur. and now, the day after that meeting, the president is coming to my district. i welcome him, obviously, coming here to the hudson valley, and so i will be there today. because i'm willing to listen to what he has to say. but we have to engage in a good faith negotiation. and i think just taking the tact that we're not going to negotiate is wrong. and frankly, hypocritical. i mean, the president has had numerous positions when it comes to the debt ceiling, as a senator, he voted against raising the debt ceiling when george bush was president. as vice president, he negotiated on behalf of the obama administration to enact spending

reforms as part of lifting the debt ceiling. and now he's taking the position that there should be no negotiations whatsoever, clean debt ceiling. and the reality is, chuck schumer can't pass a clean debt ceiling out of the senate. the only piece who have acted so far are house republicans. now, the president and the senate majority leader may not like the plan that we passed, but they can't pass their own plan. so we have to sit down and negotiate in good faith. and that's why i'm going today and i'm going to talk to the president when i have the opportunity and just encourage him to be the joe biden of old and cut a deal. >> congressman, they are going to meet again on friday. so 48 hours or so from now, there will be another conversation, even though not much is said to have come out of that meeting yesterday. i'm curious, because you represent sort of an important point of view here in the congress, which is, you are a republican elected a couple of years ago by a narrow margin, in

a district that joe biden won. and so you can't afford to kind of be a bomb thrower one way or the other. you've got to manage your district. what are the concerns of the people who live in your district? when you go down, and you'll go out and talk to your constituents today, what are they focused on? what are they actually talking about versus what you might hear on twitter or maybe even on tv? >> well, willie, it may feel like a couple of years, but it was only a few months ago. >> it was, forgive me, yes. >> that's the nature of our politics today. look, my constituents first and foremost are concerned about the cost of living. inflation, obviously, continuing to run rampant high. you know, energy prices skyrocketing. people are struggling. and, you know, i live in an area that has among the highest property taxes in america, which is why my first bill that i introduced was to lift the cap on s.a.l.t. but people want us to work together to address the challenges. yes, people are concerned about

the prospect of default or us not paying our previous debts incurred, but they also believe that we need to rein in spending. nobody in my area thinks that adding $5 trillion in new spending in two years sustainable. and so the cost of living is the biggest focus. and i'll tell you right now, the migrant crisis. title 42 ending later this week, new york city has taken in over 60,000 migrants. they're now looking to ship some of these migrants up to rockland county and other parts of the hudson valley. people are very concerned, very frustrated with the policies that have been enacted at the border, and the lack of a bipartisan immigration solution. you know, my wife is an immigrant. i've been through this process. she became a citizen two and a half years ago. it is a broken system. and all of us have an obligation to fix it. it has not been fixed in nearly 40 years since ronald reagan was

president, and this is unsustainable. and so, with title 42 ending, and more migrants flooding the border, this is only going to get worse if we don't act. and haas what people are concerned about right now. >> republican congressman mike lawler of new york, who will be with the president on that visit to the hudson valley today. and yes, who was elected six months ago, not a couple of years ago. thank you so much for being with us. so jonathan lemire, let's talk about the concern raised by congressman lawler there, which is that the white house has said, we're not negotiating on this. sort of, take it or leave it, give us a clean bill, raise the debt ceiling, then we can have a conversation about the budget separately. how does this play out with another meeting on friday now? >> the alarm bells have gotten louder since yesterday. we heard from the president yesterday, he took some questions from reporters, he suggested that they might look at the 14th amendment. he also for the first time

suggested he might have to skip all or portions of his foreign trip, the g-7 to asia. he's supposed to go to japan and australia in about a week's time, that that may have to be postponed because of this looming issue here. and the congressman is an interesting point person in this, because the white house has been telegraphing they're going to try to reach out to these republicans in biden districts the try to push them to get them to change their vote. there hasn't been much in the way of behind the scenes reporting. now the president is making that case in a very public way. later today up in westchester county, claire mccaskill, let's get you to weigh in on this. where do you see this going? the treasury has suggested that we may hit the "x" date as soon as the first couple of days of june, which we can all look at our calendar, not very far from now. what's your sense as to how this comes together? do you come out of yesterday's meeting more or less hopeful? >> you know, i will just tell you, having been to this movie and seen this movie several

times close up, i do not believe we will default. mitch mcconnell is continuing to say that we will not default. and mitch mcconnell has, i think, more experience and more power in this situation than people realize. i do think that there'll be some kind of deal on separate tracks. maybe clawing back some of the unspent covid money. maybe some permitting stuff that both sides want in various ways for energy projects. there might be a little bit of a cut in spending, but that will be done, i believe on two tracks. there will be a clean debt ceiling and then a very public agreement, i think on some of the things, to give mccarthy some kind of fig leaf to take back. but i have to say this, i was listening to this congressman and dying to put my big nose in there. i'm going to quote what he said about santos. conduct that was disgraceful. why doesn't he have some humility, some dignity?

don't see how he could serve. i would say to congressman lawler, now do trump. now do trump. >> hmm. >> all right, claire mccaskill, thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up, access to the abortion pill will face a new legal test in federal court next week. we'll be joined by the head of the american medical association who says that this could be one of the most brazen attacks on americans' health yet. "morning joe" will be right back. health yet. "morning joe" will be right back from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination.

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miriam harry. i will ask you both -- i will start with our secretary of agriculture, what are the goals of the summit? >> to accelerate innovation, mika. agriculture has the ability to be the first industry to get to zero net and then expand it across countries all over the world. this has been an exciting adventure, and when we started we had few partners, and we are seeing amazing innovations from methane reproduction. >> minister, if you could talk a little bit as co host, not only about the goals of this summit, but what are the innovations

specifically that you are looking at collectively that you think could make a difference in combating climate change? >> thank you so much, mika, for having me. thank you for our viewers and it's good to be here with my partner, secretary millsak. u.s. farmers and producers, uae farmers and producers and all around the world are feeling the affects of climate change. what can we do to make food more affordable, available, and accessible for everyone. the key here, as the secretary said, innovation. this is the spirit aiming to exchange innovation ideas, share knowledge and build partnerships because we need to accelerate

this to be able to climate proof or future proof our food and ag systems. some of the systems i have seen uses a.i., machine learning, and alternative proteins. there's something for all and our partners are the ones bringing these innovations to life and scaling them up. >> secretary, can you talk about some of the delegations that are coming and what innovations that you are most interested in that they can bring to the table? >> this does join north and south and we have countries large and small participating. some of the areas most exciting and most promising are in the areas of methane reduction, and using feed additives to feed livestock to capture the methane and turn it into a renewable and energy source.

one of the great innovations was al gore was talking about this during his time with us a couple days ago, seeds that are coated that can produce their own fertilizer, and that would substantially reduce the requirement to have a fossil-based fuel for fertilizer, and this would be a game changer for producers all over the world. >> thank you both very much for coming on the show to preview this summit. we appreciate it. up next, an immigration restriction known as title 42 expires at midnight tomorrow. we'll explain the new measures the biden administration is implementing to address an expected surge of migrants at the southern border. also ahead, we have much more on the historic verdict finding donald trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation.

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donald, is that another call to arms? is that you tweeting it's going to be crazy -- we have to fight. >> sandbag, standby? >> got news for you, donald. this is not a witch hunt, this is a jury. >> of your peers. >> you are a billionaire that can afford the best lawyers on

the planet. you had a better shot. if there was any way you were not liable for this you would have figured out how to get out of this thing, but you dependant. so you lie over and over and over again. in the process, this is the crazy thing, you actually -- remember, you apologized for "access hollywood," you connect "access hollywood" in 2016 in 2023 by saying that's what people like me have been doing for a million years, and maybe it's not bad -- >> fortunately or unfortunately -- >> he said fortunately. i saw a tweet that worked in the bush white house, and you look at what all these republicans are saying. pete waner, he talks about what actually tommy tuberville

says -- here we go. it worked. i don't know what bill murray was carrying and my internet doesn't work. so he says the new york verdict where a jury of six men and three women found donald trump liable for sexual abuse, for sexual abuse. tommy tuberville says this makes me want to vote for him twice. a sexual abuser. a sexual abuser makes tommy tuberville want to vote for the sexual abuser twice. as pete waner said, and this comment by tommy tuberville that

describes himself as, quote, a man of christian faith, is disturbing even by the standards of this morally-depraved era. anybody saying a jury of six men and three women, finding somebody guilty of sexual abuse, sexually abusing a woman would make them want to vote for that person twice. how depraved -- there's just not another word for it. how depraved. >> it is depraved. he's not alone. senator rubio said the jury is a joke. we played sound a little earlier from a congressman said don't say that stuff to me, that doesn't work for me. it's hard to find new territory

among new republicans and trump, and this is chipping away at a bit of foundation of our country, and it was that we respected our peers, and he said it was a new york city jury. i wonder what he will say if there's a charge in the state of georgia? it's a red state, but he will probably say it's atlanta, you know, that's where all the liberals live. this is how they are proceeding here, go along for the ride that this is all one big witch hunt. let's dig into what happened yesterday, with a special correspondent, "vanity fair," molly. let's start with your reaction to donald trump being held

liable not only for sexual abuse but also defamation. surprised? >> yeah, i was surprised. here is where i will confess my own stereotype. if you look at the transcript of voir dire when they were asked about their beliefs and backgrounds, this was not a jury strong for e. jean carroll, and they had concerns about the competition of the jury. one of the jurors confessed he listens to a maga podcast. the heroes here are in part the six men on this jury, six men out of nine, and also the male lawyer you spoke to this morning, mr. ferrera, his presence was critical in the courtroom. he could defuse that this is just locker room talk better

than anybody else. he stood up in his rebuttal and said this is not locker room talk, it's confession. that's the sort of bond you can create if you are invested in shattering the midst of toxic masculinity. >> another unlikely hero in this case, i would argue, would be donald trump himself in his deposition. in his own words, using his words against himself and, if i may, being too stupid to even know that he was testifying against himself -- >> he's not the brightest. >> -- saying you can assault women and it has been happening for years, fortunately or unfortunately, and there's a chance that you can just assault women, just do it, and celebrities can do it all the time, and they do it all the

time, and are you a celebrity? yes, i am a celebrity. he was giving that jury no choice. >> he admitted to it in the "access hollywood" tape. >> everybody should watch that. >> this happened well before 2016, and trump was admitting to billy push when that tape was played, this is how he acts around women, they let you sexually abuse them according to donald trump. he connected them to now. he apologized, but, of course, he didn't mean it. maybe it's fortunate that people like donald trump can continue in the deposition -- >> he misunderstood his wife for her in a picture. then he tells the female attorney deposing him that she's not his type.

sometimes atrocious behavior is offensive to some people. >> gravity is returning to our political system, to our judicial system and to everything. you know, molly, what is so fascinating is donald trump and a couple idiots that will follow him along and willing to trash every american institution to protect and defend a failed game show host. donald trump's own attorneys, and this guy says he's a billionaire and so he can afford the best, they were the ones that helped select this jury. this was not a prosecutor. this wasn't an fbi task force in new york. these were americans. these were voters. these were citizens that donald trump's own highly paid lawyers

selected to put in that jury. >> these were a jury of his peers, right? i mean, donald trump is a new york guy. he grew up here. he lives here. this is his place. he reads the "new york post." i mean, he's a new york guy, so -- everybody has the "new york post" here. it makes a lot of sense. i also want to say, joe tacopina did himself no favors. you saw him hammering away at e. jean carroll, why didn't you scream? this is textbook what not to say to an alleged sexual assault. this is more than one of 26 accusers. this is not about e. jean carroll, you know. this whole idea of belittling a 79-year-old woman that just wants to clear her name will somehow get trump off -- will

keep him from being guilty is really kind of nutty. >> lisa, we had a pair of e. jean carroll's lawyers on, and they expressioned confidence they would be able to win on appeal, and give us your analysis, your victim analysis on the strength of his possible appeal? >> i think the strength of his possible appeal is none. not that he for sure will lose because i am a former litigator and we can't make promises like that. one will be the judge did not admit dna evidence. donald trump, as you know, went to truth social and complained the judge was not going to go allow the dna evidence. donald trump himself avoided providing any dna evidence until e. jean carroll's team said we will try this case without it.

it was when tacopina came in that they decided to do that. and then i think that even if there is error, it's not reversible error. the final thing they will appeal on is from one of the other accuser's testimony was admitted, and if they were not interrupted by the butler at mar-a-lago, he would have followed that to a tee, he had her pushed up a wall and they

were interrupted. whoever represents donald trump in this appeal has an uphill battle. in donald trump's litigation playbook, delay, delay, delay, and it's not only the repetitive strategy but is a win for him if he can kick it down the road far enough. >> molly, you pay attention to trump, how he treats women and you have written a lot about that, and the testimony from not just e. jean carroll but all the other witnesses we heard from. what do you think was accomplished, gained, made a difference from yesterday's verdict? >> well, we have opened the door here, right, to defamation, to charging donald trump with defamation. if i were trump, a man that goes to social media constantly to

criticize people and often it has no proof, and this could open the door to a lot of legal cases and a lot of money, right? the poll worker in georgia is suing him for defamation. i think it's problematic and, remember, there are other accusers. the adult survivors law would not have been signed into law in 2022, if it was fought for the me too movement. >> before we let you go, the distinction between rape and sexual abuse, they did not find donald trump guilty of rape but did of sexual abuse. >> forgive me, i will have to

use graphic language, and rape is defined at penetration by a penis into a vagina or another orifice. sexual abuse is something that does not constitute intercourse. it's because e. jean carroll in her testimony said she couldn't see what was going on. although she believes, and she said she is rather certain that donald trump did, in fact, penetrate her with his genitilia, she couldn't see it. >> thank you both. we appreciate it. mika? >> joining us now, democratic senator, elizabeth warren of massachusetts. we have a lot to talk with you about this morning. thank you for coming on. we will start by asking you for

your reaction to this verdict, to this result? >> you know, i am very glad that this went in front of a jury. we now know that when people listen very closely to e. jean carroll's story, what conclusion they reach. but at the end of the day, we all knew who donald trump was when he got elected in 2016. we still know who donald trump is. what i still find, the part that is hardest to wrap your head around is how many republicans stand there and continue to support him. how many people say i would vote for him twice. that's the part that is deeply, deeply threatening. ultimately, not just to our democracy but to who we are as a people. >> yeah. well, it's a cult. that's what cult members do. if a cult leader tells cult members to harm themselves, and in this case it would be

politically or lying to people, they do it, senator. it's a real sickness in our politics now. >> you know, though, it's also about power. it's about a republican party that wants power at any costs. if that means embracing someone who has been credibly accused of sexual misconduct over and over and over, if it means taking a political position that they are going to win by keeping american citizens from voting or from getting their votes counted, if it means embracing white supremacists, if it means embracing the nra even as we face one mass shooting after another, then they are willing to do it in order to try and hang on to power. i think that is the ultimate threat to the way our nation operates. we built a democracy on the notion that everyone would at

least pitch in at some level and try to work for the good of the country. but these republicans, they are working for power for the republicans, period. >> so how do you -- because, you know, senator, i am always the one saying people need to sit down and they need to talk and figure out how to come to a resolution on all of the big issues of the day. we may not agree but we have got to work together. the question is, though, how do you work with senators across the aisle who are trashing the jury system, saying it's a joke and a senator who actually that you have to work with says the fact that donald trump was found by six men and three women in a jury of his peers that his attorneys helped put in the jury box, the fact that they found him liable for sexual abuse makes him want to vote for the sexual abuser twice.

>> you know, obviously, this is really hard and my job in the united states senate, the job of all of us is to try and find places where we can work together. but the idea of republicans who are trying to undermine our democracy and undermine how the systems work, that's a genuine threat. we also were watching hostage taking. we talk about it with the debt limit right now, that kevin mccarthy says no, he's got to have all of these negotiations before he will go along with the united states government actually paying the debts it incurred, something deeply shocking to our entire system. but we also have to happening right now with senator tuberville holding up the advancement of nearly 200 military officers, including the head of our cyber command, the

head of the seventh fleet, holding these people up for their next promotion, their next assignment, keeping their families from getting settled into the next place, all because he is unhappy with one -- one policy followed by the department of defense on reproductive rights for people in the military. when you are playing hostage games like this, that's not a place where people can come together and negotiate. we actually have to shut it down. we say we are not going to give in to hostage takers. no. >> senator warren, on the idea of hostage takers, that's similar rhetoric we have heard about president biden and give us your assessment of where things stand, and both sides came out of the meeting

yesterday suggesting not much way was made, and they are going to talk again tomorrow. mitch mcconnell has been viewed as somebody that could be key for a short extension and he could step in, and yesterday he gave signals he's not willing to do that. >> i am obviously very, very worried about this. again, at the end of the day i strongly support what president biden is doing. you cannot negotiate directly over hostage taking. if we say to the republicans, okay, you are going to get a bunch of things that you could not get through ordinary negotiations, solely because you are willing to put millions of people out of work, you are willing to tip our economy into a recession, and you are willing to ruin america's good name around the world and make people say, i thought america always

paid its debts, because you are willing to do that, we are going to give you a lot of things you can't get a majority for. that can't be how we go, because once you do that once, man, you are down the path and it will happen again and again and again. i think the president is doing the right thing. he's talking with kevin mccarthy. he absolutely should. he's talking about two tracks, we'll negotiate on budget, that is fine, but you have to raise the debt ceiling. at the same time he's opening the door with other ways to deal with the debt ceiling including the 14th amendment and it says nobody should question the lawful debts of the united states of america, and it's up to the rest of us to put pressure on the republicans to back off from threatening the american economy, american jobs and america's good name around the world. >> senator elizabeth warren, thank you, as always.

thank you for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. still ahead on "morning joe," writer e. jean carroll joins the table in a little bit following yesterday's stunning result in the civil rape trial against former president donald trump. we will get her reaction of the verdict. the latest on the crisis at the border, a huge number of migrants already crossing in as title 42 is set to expire today. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site,

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welcome back. we have been discussing a decision by a manhattan jury to find donald trump liable for sexually abusing and defaming e. jean carroll. trump was absent from the trial, though jurors did see portions of his videotaped deposition.

>> you say it again, and this has become very famous in this video, i just start kissing them, it's like a magnet, just kiss, and when you are a star you can do anything, they can grab [ bleep ] -- >> that's true with stars. if you look over the last million years, that has been largely true, unfortunate, or fortunately. >> you consider yourself to be a star? >> i think you can say that, yeah. >> in front of you, a black and white photograph we marked and i will ask you, is this the photo you were just referring to? >> i think so yes. >> do you recall when you first saw this photo? >> at some point during the

process, i guess that's her husband, john johnson, who was an anchor, and i don't know him but i thought he was pretty good at what he did. i don't even know who -- the woman, i don't know, that's marla. >> did you say marla is in this photo? >> that's marla, that's my wife. >> which woman are you pointing to? >> here. >> the person you just pointed to is e. jean carroll. the woman on the right is your then-wife -- >> i assume that's john johnson, and that's carroll? it's very blurry. she would not be my first choice. that i can tell you. man, you don't know, that would not be my first choice. >> when you said in that video

that she would not be your first choice, you were referring to her physical looks, correct? >> just overall, i look at her and see her and hear what she says, whatever. you would not be a choice of mine either, and i hope you are not insulted, and i under no circumstances would have any interest in you. i am honest when i say it. >> we are talking about some of the republican lawmakers, and there were some expressing concern about the impact of the verdict mostly on the 2024 election. >> could you support somebody found guilty of sexual battery? >> i would have difficulty doing so. >> he should not be president of the united states.

at some point when people that work with you, your cabinet secretary and jurors conclude you have done something wrong, it's time to conclude the majority is right and he's wrong. >> which candidate represents the best opportunity to beat joe biden, and on that measure, things like we are experiencing today will factor in. >> i do not think he can win the presidency, and i think regardless of what you think about him as an individual, to me electability is the sole criteria. >> he should drop out of the race -- >> i don't think he cares what i think. >> senator cornyn -- he said this is just another example of why he can't win a general election. do you agree with that? >> yes. >> i think it's based in. all of these prosecutors are out to get him, but it does, you know, like i said before, it has

a cumulative affect and people have to decide whether or not they want to deal with all the drama that will surround him. >> if you are listening in the car or on the radio, they were saying donald trump cannot win the nomination. some voices, obviously those in the house, not dismissing the charges but the entire process of american jurisprudence, and does this change anything about the dynamic inside the party? >> it gives the republicans yet another moment to face the question of how seriously do they want to win in 2024, because the general election and primary are two different things. we saw when donald trump was indicted by the manhattan d.a., that helped him in the polls in

the republican party, and the by fur indication between the house members that still want to do his bidding, versus the senate. mitt romney is often a trump critic, so let's set him aside, but somebody like thune or kennedy or cassidy, they do -- cornyn, who is a member of leadership, do occasionally criticize donald trump but are in lockstep, too. the video we just played is reprehensible, and a decade ago republicans would have rejected outright. whether the anti-trump forces can take a moment to coalesce around another candidate, whether it's governor desantis or somebody else, and he is still the dominant figure in the

party. i think there will be a moment, willie, where there will be some donors and others that take a hard look and say with other indictments coming up, can we support this guy? >> we will speak to e. jean carroll straight ahead. ad you can get every other month. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by my healthcare provider, every other month. it's one less thing to think about while traveling. hiv pills aren't on my mind. a quick change in my plans is no big deal. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away.

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investigations. nbc news reports in december two federal law enforcement sources confirmed federal prosecutors from the eastern district of new york had opened an investigation into santos and were examining

his finances, including potential irregularities involving financial disclosures and loans he made to his congressional campaign. santos is expected to appear at the long island federal courthouse today. santos and his lawyer did not respond to request for comment. george conway, we don't know too much yet. how long do you think he knew about this? any idea what this could be? >> my guess is that he's known that he has been under investigation for a while, at least since all the information started coming out about it. there's no way he has not had to respond to subpoenas from his campaign financing and so on. and we saw disclosures where he's charging the cash maximum

of 199 -- something like that, it was payments for cash -- every meal costs 199. clearly fraudulent. you have money where we don't know where it came from, and then the story of him ripping off the fund of the poor sick dog. when you lie that much, you are going to sooner or later lie on a piece of paper that actually matters for something or you are going to lie about something involving money, and that's going to get you into state or federal trouble. for some people it takes longer, like our friend in florida, but some people really get there faster and that's mr. santos. >> i am just thinking about his office. everybody in his office -- how could he operate with this hanging over him, having to

provide all of these disclosers? i would think his office would know about this, too? >> i don't know to what extent he has kept his office separate from his campaign operation, and we just don't know the inner workings of george santos and how he has not been able to function. it's just going to be -- it's going to be untenable for him to function now. we will see if mr. mccarthy has the gumption to do something at this point or if he will continue being shameless and pretending that santos is a normal member of congress. >> george conway, thank you for being on this morning. coming up on morning joe, cities near the southern border bracing for the end of a pandemic era policy used to block migrants from entering the country. we will go to el paso that has already seen a rise in crossings

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the pandemic era immigration policy known as title 42 is set to expire at 11:59 eastern time tomorrow night. cities on the southern border already are seeing an influx of migrants in el paso, reporting more than 3,300 camped out in shelters waiting to get into the country after tomorrow night. joining us, julia ainsley. good morning. tell us what it looks like there and what officials are expecting to see in the next several days? >> reporter: willie, i will talk quietly because i want to be respectful of the people sleeping next to me. this is where migrants are

sleeping on the streets after they cross the border, either after they evade the border patrol or cannot get in the shelters. actually something happened yesterday that is pretty significant. border patrol started to move more of these people out of their area and further to their destinations to clear out the streets before the expected surge. title 42 will lift at 9:59 here tomorrow night, and they are expecting numbers crossing the border above 10,000. that's like nothing we have seen before. right now they are averaging over 8,000 per day, and border patrol facilities are well over capacity. it's something the administration is talking about now and are trying to put forward a really tough policy to show the border will not be open

when title 42 lifts. border officials say that won't do anything about the processing time. without title 42 it will take them longer to figure out who can stay in the country and who will be deported or expels and that would be leading to many more people sleeping on the streets like this. >> the migrants that have come in, they can be expelled. what is the biden administration doing to prepare for this? obviously they have been criticized in many corners for the handling of the situation at the border and title 42, and what is the plan from the administration and what is the plan from homeland security? >> reporter: they are putting more money into i.c.e. and transportation, and also put

down 1,500 active duty troops, although they will not be doing appear apprehensions. they want them to apply for asylum in country, and they want to raise the bar on asylum so if you have not applied for asylum on a country you passed through getting here, you would be ineligible, unless you could show criteria that you would be, for example, tortured in your home country. staring down the clock, 9:59 here local tomorrow night, a lot of people say they have run out of all options and it's their last resort and they can't stay in their home countries any

longer, and a lot of people coming from haiti, nicaragua, you name it, people in desperate situations and thousands are waiting just over the border in juarez waiting to come in. >> we will find out what happens just under 40 hours now. julia, thank you so much, as always. we appreciate it. jonathan lemire, the question for the biden administration administration is are they ready for this? no telling what will happen two days from now when the border opens in this way? >> well, there are concerns the white house has not been ready for ready. senior aides told me this was a real vulnerability. they don't have a handle on what to do at the border when title 42 expires. there are people inside and outside the administration who

are deeply nervous as to what the next few days will hold. we saw there's been some troops committed to the border there to provide support and relief to the officers already there. it's going to be a political fire storm. we know, jen, that republicans have already made the border and immigration a real point of attack. that's only going to escalate after what we assume in the coming days. what's your counsel here for the white house? how big of a vulnerability is this for the white house? >> it's a really difficult problem. it's a how long logistical

problem for the white house. there are the -- the administration is limited to what they can do about it. julia just did the same report about what they're doing. they popped more resources down there. they have the national guard down there. secretary blinken is doing more asylum processing in country, in central america. they want us to know everything they're trying to do to stem what's likely to be a difficult problem. then the president said last night, when he got a question about it, he said it's going -- how's it going to do when title 42 ends, mr. president? he said it's going to be difficult. it's going to be messy. they're trying to brace people for, yes, we are absent action from congress. you're going to see a lot of

chaos at the border. coming up we'll speak live with e. jean carroll who's lawsuit ended yesterday with the former president being found liable for sexually abusing her in the 1990s. she joins the table straight ahead on "morning joe." easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. if you care about clean air, you should know president biden's and stay on top of the market. infrastructure laws are reducing pollution and creating clean energy jobs. more solar. more wind. made in america.

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breaking economic news. consumer prices rose slightly by .4% last month. that's in line with dow jones estimates. let's bring in frank holland. frank, let's go down the breaking news alerts here. u.s. inflation eased to 4.9% in april. that's the financial times. "the new york times" says it's the tenth straight month of declines inflation.

"wall street journal" talks about the economy showing signing of cooling. it looks like actually the fed's -- all the hikes actually may be starting to take an effect. how does wall street respond to that? >> reporter: wall street is responding positively. all three of the major indices has things trending positively. let's get down to it. we at cnbc have you on the monitor right now. they're waving at you. >> we're waving back.

>> reporter: just a tick lower than the 5% forecast from economists around the country. an important part here, treasury yields they fell, around 5 to 7 basis points. that may sound small, but it's a considerable decline. a basis point is one hundred of a percent. investors are growing concerned about higher rates slowing down the economy and causing more issues in the banking sector. we're seeing investors breathing a sigh of relief. rates could go even higher from inflation doesn't ease. the odds of fed pausing now at 88%. yesterday it was 78%.

increasing odds of no more hikes. grocery prices declined slightly, still up 7%. a 4% job in used vehicle prices. shelter costs increased 4% in a month, that's up over 8% from a year ago. tech stocks are gaining in the free market. >> i'm sure you and your friends have talked about it, our friends have been talking about it, the inflation costs for rent, not only in major cities, but across america causing a real crisis, right? >> reporter: absolutely. today we saw analysts on wall street upgrading walmart.

americans are trading down to compensate for food bills. we're seeing more and more people making over $100,000 a year going to walmart to save on groceries. >> thank you, frank holland. we'll always get our economic news from you and cnbc. time for a look at the morning papers. we begin in new hampshire, the state is dealing with an emt and paramedic shortage. officials say it's harder to higher and retain workers because of lower wages for medical personnel. they say if the state doesn't increase its funding, the shortage will worsen. lawmakers are considering two bills that will reimburse for medicaid patients. a florida bill would require

hospitals to ask patients about their citizenship status. medical centers would have to report a patient's immigration status. employers also have to confirm their workers' legal status. hospitals don't ask such questions as they're required by law to treat all patients. new york increasing its number of walk-in mental health clinics. under the recently approved state budget, new york will triple its number of clinics from 13 to 39. governor kathy hochul announced $1 billion in funding in response to the chokehold death of a man on a new york city subway. she called his death a wake-up call. the new mental health facilities will expand both in-patient and out-patient services. finally in new jersey,

there's a front page feature on experts updating their recommendations for breast cancer screenings. the united states preventive services task force now suggests women get a mammogram every other year starting at the age of 40 instead of when they turn 50. that's a big change. officials say earlier screenings could save 19% more lives. willie? >> just past the top of the hour. 9:00 on the east coast. 6:00 out west. a jury yesterday found donald trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation. e. jean carroll is our guest in just a moment. first, laura jarrett has the details. >> reporter: donald trump on the hook for $5 million. a federal jury finding the

former president sexually abused e. jean carroll and defamed her. the jury found short of trump being liable for rape. overnight trump reacted with a series of posts on his social media network. >> it's a disgrace. i don't even know who this woman is. this is another scam. >> reporter: the jury heard from e. jean carroll and other women. while trump's legal team didn't call any witnesses and the former president never showed up in court, his words loomed large. >> it's the most ridiculous disgusting story. >> reporter: as the deposition tape was played, the jury

watched him confuse her for marla maples, his exwife. >> that's my wife. >> reporter: he was also confronted with the "access hollywood" tape. >> when you're a star you can do it. grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> you can do anything, that's what you said? >> historically that's true with stars. >> true with stars that they can grab women by the [ bleep ]. >> if you look over the last million years, that's been largely true. not always, but largely true unfortunately or fortunately. >> reporter: outside the courthouse trump's attorney said an appeal is coming. >> there were things that happened that were beyond the pale. >> joining us now sarah longwell and lexie mccannon.

former president of the united states likely nominee into 2024 found liable for sexual abuse and defamation. some of the reaction from republicans on capitol hill, here senator marco rubio, quote, the jury is a joke. the whole case is a joke. as for alabama senator tommy tubberville, he said, quote, makes me want to vote for him twice, talking about donald trump. he confirmed it saying 100%, #maga. so telling, is it not, about the state of the republican party and now they're willing to chip away at the foundation of the legal system saying a jury that doesn't favor trump must be a joke. >> it's obviously really depressing to see republicans act this way, but this is what we've seen from them for a long time. you know, one of the things -- i

did a focus group last week and asked about the e. jean carroll case. what was so striking to me is that trump voters hadn't even heard about the case. it's because they live in this media silos where stations like fox news don't carry things about donald trump. republicans either rush to donald trump's defense in these cases, especially elite republicans, or they haven't heard about it. one of the things i hear from republican voters when it comes to the indictments or trump getting in trouble is they say what tommy tuberville said, they want to support donald trump more because people are out to get him. that inspires them. >> that's the argument donald trump made again, it's part of a witch hunt. he claims he doesn't know e.

jean carroll and republicans fall in line. one member of the florida delegation on capitol hill yesterday said don't even talk to me about jury of your peers. i don't want to hear that. they don't want to hear it if it's bad for donald trump. perhaps this is a rhetorical question, but does this -- does this -- a jury finding him liable of sexual abuse paired with perhaps some kind of indictment coming in georgia, jack smith working, does this amount to anything in terms of his chances to be the nominee or is it full steam ahead? >> i think it's probably full steam ahead. what donald trump is able to do -- what would be bad for anybody else, he sucks up all the media oxygen and because all these republicans, including people challenging him for the nomination, because they rush to his defense, they become bit players in donald trump's

central drama and it keeps them from being able to affirmatively make any case for themselves and everything's about trump all the time. he's the one person who really does bare out that adage, there's no such thing as bad press, because all he wants is people to be talking about him and to make no room for anyone else. >> lexie can't dispute sarah's analysis. trump is the clear favorite for the republican nominee. we heard from some senators who voiced dismay yesterday, but more importantly saying that trump can't win. they don't think he's electable. do you think this could give some in the party a second look

at the alternatives? may there be some anti-trump forces rallying around desantis or somebody else? >> it feels like trump is a run away train for republicans. it's impossible to stop him unless by some fantasy, which some republicans say that privately, their fantasy is that a number of other folks will pick one person and say this is the alternative to trump. if you're not maga, you're with us. that's not happening. that hasn't happened. the other folks in the field barely want to differentiate themselves from trump or mention him. focus groups, we had focus groups last night with georgia swing voters. folks who voted for trump in '16 and biden in '19. these folks thought that even though they think trump is

better for the economy, they still say who he is as a person is disgusting. it makes them uncomfortable. women, men, makes them feel they can't go back to someone like him. these are folks looking for a third party or independent-type candidate because of how the republican party has changed under donald trump. >> interesting to note some of the media coverage, particularly among murdoch owned enterprises. "new york post" says grab him by the wallet. "the wall street journal" writes, a modicum of restraint or twinge of regret might have put some doubt in the jury's mind. mr. trump can't stop just fieing his crude behavior. this is the donald trump whose words and actions subverted his own presidency. republicans will want their presidential to win in 2024 and

then to govern successfully. the e. jean carroll lawsuit combined by the judgment is the tempest that's mr. trump's constant companion. there may be more judicial challenges to come for mr. trump. gop voters will have to decide if it's worth putting the country through this tumult for four more years. that indictment was a good test, the previous indictment of donald trump on business questions. his support only went up among republican primary voters, sarah. >> yeah. look, there's no doubt that there's a lot of republican elites that want trump gone. clearly murdoch wants trump gone. they're trying to rally around an alternative, preferably desantis. desantis has had a tough couple months. what i've been seeing in focus groups there was a chunk of the party that wanted to move on

from trump. they were desantis curious. they were interested in him. as donald trump has been able to define desantis, while desantis has been on the sidelines not fighting back, that's starting to chip away at people's interest in desantis. i'm watching them come home to trump because, if it's not desantis, they're not interested in some of these other folks like nikki haley or unfortunately asa hutchinson, because he's great. republican voters want a trump without the baggage. they thought that was desantis. as he fades, i see them coming home to trump and talking about desantis in the terms that trump defines him saying i don't know if i trust him. he's establishment, a little built swampy. you can't beat something with nothing. i know that some of these elite republicans want trump gone. they should speak up about it. unless there's a big collective

movement, a big rally around some alternative trump is going to continue to cruise to this nomination. >> let's talk about the trump campaign for a minute more. in the wake of an indictment and yesterday's decision from this jury in manhattan, he has left this huge lead. seems like his operation has been more effective this time around, his campaign. he's got a town hall tonight. he's made other efforts to engage with mainstream outlets. give us your reporting and axios' reporting as to what trump's play is here. >> yeah, i mean, the campaign is incredibly competent. they're operating differently than in 2016 and 2020. a little more structure, but they're dealing with unprecedented situations. it's impressive, i guess, when i speak to people in trump world.

they're very clear and calm. trump will be the one to set the tone. he could show up at this town hall and be the bombastic trump or he can be a more docile version of himself talking about his platform and his future for the country. one thing is clear, the trump campaign is not giving up. they're not going away. you remember in 2016 trump said he could murder someone and still get elected. these charges to him are nothing and it's nothing in terms of what it means politically for their campaign. it could help him in a primary. the larger case is whether republicans will say, look, he could win this primary, but legal lose the general. he's lost elections since 2016. that will make senator mitch mcconnell's job harder if job is the nominee. it's already going to be difficult to take back the senate.

with trump-backed candidates it was a disaster. >> we have to move on, republicans are saying, if we want to win. lexie, stay with us. sarah, thanks so much. coming up next, e. jean carroll joins us in studio along with her attorney to discuss that verdict in her civil lawsuit against former president donald trump. "morning joe" is right back. donald trump "morning joe" is right back. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. ♪ are you getting the sleep you deserve? well, this is your wakeup call to sleep on a casper mattress

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how? benefi how do you choose?ance. how do you choose the ones you save? he's coming for you with everything. dom! can't save 'em all. more now on yesterday's verdict by a new york city finding donald trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation. trump must pay $5 million in damages to write e. jean carroll. she joins us how with her attorney roberta kaplan. how are you feeling this morning? >> on top of the world. yesterday was the happiest day

of my life. >> was it? how come? what was the feeling? >> the former president had smeared me so badly and so evilly and with such malice and spite that it wasn't until yesterday i got back up on my feet and felt my name is back and robby kaplan got it back for me. >> there were a lot of people who wondered why you would bring this case, not just because of the time, but because you know -- you're from new york. you understand who donald trump is. you know how he fights. you knew it was going to be ugly. he's still doing it this morning. why was it so important to you and why was it worth it to you to bring this case? >> well, i didn't come forward at the time. >> right. >> it took me a long time to get

over feeling shame, believing it was my fault. i was frightened he would strike back. he did. i was frightened i would lose my job. i did. then the a.s.a. was passed in new york state. it gave us a nudge and the ability to hold him accountable for the rape. that's why we did it. >> i understand you had an exchange with donald trump's attorne after the jury delivered its verdict. what did you say? >> joe is extremely likable. so, of course, he congratulated robby, shaun, mike, the whole team. my turn came up. he put out his hand and i looked

him in the eye and said, he did it and you know it. >> did he say anything back to you? >> he's extremely charming. he smiled. we got through it. >> robby, we were playing a bunch of the deposition you took of donald trump which was is damning. as you look on the other side of this, having won for e. jean, what was decisive in the eyes of the jury? >> i think that deposition video had a lot to do with the verdict. i think they saw in that video who donald trump is and what he believes. he said it in his own words. >> we'll listen quickly to the piece of the deposition that gets at the "access hollywood" tape. >> you say it again, this has become very famous, i just start kissing them. i just kiss. i don't wait. when you're a star, you can do

anything. grab them by the [ bleep ]. you can do anything. >> historically that's true with stars. >> true with stars that they can grab women by the [ bleep ]? >> if you look over the last million years, that's been largely true. not always, but largely true, unfortunately or fortunately. >> you consider yourself to be a star? >> i think you can say that, yeah. >> fortunately or unfortunately, he's talking about sexual abuse there. there was a moment that was incredibly damning where donald trump, who has said that e. jean carroll was not his type, looked at a photograph of e. jean carroll and identified it as marla maples. >> we marked this photograph at djt-23. is this the photo you were referring to? >> i think so, yes. >> do you recall when you first saw this photo? >> at some point during the

process i saw it. it's i guess her husband john johnson who was an anchor for abc. nice guy, i thought. i don't know him. i thought he was good at what he did. i don't even know the woman. let's see -- i don't know who. there's marla. >> you're saying marla is in this photo? >> that's marla, yeah, that's my wife. >> which woman are you pointing to? >> here. >> that's e. jean carroll. >> oh, is it? >> the woman on the right is your then wife, marla? >> this is the picture. i assume that's john johnson. it's very blurry. >> in that moment do you know you have him? >> kind of. one of the things i said to the jury, it's classic donald trump. he makes the mistake in the photo. he realizes the mistake because

his attorney tells him and he lies. what does he say? it's blurry. the same photo you were looking at, there's nothing blurry about that photo. >> donald trump still denying he's ever met you. saying you're still lying. tell us about how important this was for you as an individual, but also for women at large in a moment like this. so many of them, not just in relation to donald trump, but any man. >> this is what really -- it's a victory, not really for me. it's for every woman because we did away with the perfect victim concept. the perfect victim always screams. she always goes to the police. she always writes the date in her diary.

we smashed that concept. for every woman in the country, this is for you. i think this will help you all be believed. >> robby, trump is also threatening to appeal. walk us through what you think that may look like and how long it could take. we know that donald trump's legal strategy is to try to kick things down the road as long as he can. >> he has a write to file appellate papers. he'll do that. he has no good argument. the courts are familiar with his strategy of delay, delay, delay. i would expect top six months to a year, maybe sooner if we can get them to expedite. >> we talked about jury selection. it's important because of the reaction we've seen by supporters of trump. they say, of course, it was a new york jury. they were out to get donald trump. marco rubio said that jury is a

joke, suggesting that we should ignore this because it's a new york jury. you had tommy tuberville say this makes me want to vote for donald trump twice. of course, it was a new york jury. can you talk about the jury, six men and three women? >> first of all, during his opening argument mr. trump's lawyer praised the jury system. he said how great the court system was, how it's the bedrock of our democracy. those senators are contradicting what donald trump's lawyer said. number two, there was not a new york city jury. we had one juror from the bronx, one from manhattan, all the rest were from westchester. we had three women, six men, mostly working class people. these are the people who are supposed to be trump voters. >> that's important to underline. we're hearing it's a bunch of

libs from greenwich village. >> only two were from new york city out of nine. >> what's your reaction when you hear comments like that from supporters who run to the defense of donald trump, saying we should dismiss this? >> you know what, i don't hear it. i'm so full of happiness and joy. i am putting that out of my mind. i know robby is going to take care of it. >> we have alexi with a question for you. >> reporter: hi, e. jean. i'm sorry for all you've been through and none of the republican statements even acknowledge some of these awful situations that women like yourself have gone through. critics say you're doing this for financial gain. that's what you have to gain. i wonder if you could speak to what it is that you actually

gain and, also, what you lose by going through this. >> it's not about the money. not about the money. it was totally 100% to get my name back and to -- for all women in the country, to step forward and prove our case so more women like me can be believed. remember, women don't come forward because we're afraid nobody is going to believe us. well, we just got a whopping win in a major trial and what's happening? people don't believe it because it's the jury. i think it was a big victory for us. >> reporter: to that point, because of this widespread disbelief that's still happening among the right and with some men that that actually might prevent other women from coming forward because they're watching that and seeing that and feeling like what's the point of coming

forward if all these men are still saying not only is she lying, but the entire judicial system is rigged against them? >> i used to believe that. i was born in the silent generation. we put our chins up and went ahead. i have learned we cannot stay silent. the more women who speak up the more will speak up. we can change this entire culture of sexual violence. we can start to put an end to it. >> part of that, as you pointed out, is ended this idea of a perfect victim. i'll put to you because most of our viewers didn't have the benefit of being in that courtroom. you were asked well you went back to bergdorf's, you liked "celebrity apprentice."

how do you explain that piece of it? and the attorneys for donald trump said you liked him, you liked his show. how do you address that? >> i'm a normal woman leading a normal life. i had loves. i had hates. i enjoyed my life. i kept private about some of the hurt i had been through. i was allowed to have a little happiness and for three days on the -- as i told my story, as trump's attorney ripped me to shreds, it might as well have been the 17th century. why didn't you scream? why did you laugh? why didn't you report right away? why didn't you write it in your diary? over and over. it was like we were back 400 years. it was amazing. i hope, i hope -- i think we

made a dent and we're going to stop this kind of ridiculous, old fashion, out of date, dumb attack against women. >> robby, what message do you think this sends, that the jury heard your case, agreed with you and said yes it's more likely than not that this happened? what does that do for other victims? >> it sends the message that mr. trump's lawyer said in his opening. we have a democracy. the court system is the bedrock of our government and our democracy. no one, literally no one, not even donald trump, is above the law and that a jury in new york comprised of people mostly outside of new york city found that he lied and he abused e. jean carroll and other women i hope are courageous as she was over the past two weeks that she was and say the truth. >> e. jean, what should happen

next? donald trump is the current frontrunner for the republican nomination. what should happen to him going forward? >> i can't even begin to imagine -- to me this is not about politics. it's a big win for all women. robby will have to answer that. >> i'm just a country lawyer. i can't talk about politics. >> e. jean, did you have any doubts about bringing this? it was in the book. you put it out there. did you have doubts about pursuing it as a legal matter only because you knew what you were going to take? you knew what donald trump was going to bring at you. did you have moments of doubt? >> are you kidding? i had doubts every day, four or five times a day, thinking what the heck are we trying to pull off? robby was determined.

just put one step in front of the other. we just kept going. that's the secret. don't give up. >> what did you tell her in those moments of doubt? >> i didn't have to tell you much, e. jean. you might have felt them, but you didn't tell me. i told our team we had to buck up and that he wasn't going to take your joy. >> that's right. >> it's an extraordinary day. it serves as an example to a lot of women. e. jean carroll, roberta kaplan, thank you. we're learning more details about the federal criminal charges george santos is facing, including wire fraud, money laundering. he's in court today on long island. we'll run through it next on "morning joe." ugh it next on "morning joe." undetectable, who are cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by my healthcare provider,

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fraud. john, 13 counts, more serious than some people expected. >> this is significant. we'll learn more as the morning goes on. george santos lied about just about everything in his life and background. the thing that worried legal experts, campaign finance. seems like that's at the heart of these charges. what happens next remains a question. there are some republicans, particularly those from new york state, who want him to resign. he suggested he's not going to do that. in fact he suggested he's going. right now, kevin mccarthy is keeps his distance and keeping silence. he can't afford to lose a single vote. >> couple house republicans from new york were quoted when asked about george santos, they said, we can't wait to see him go.

kevin mccarthy has held back on this, maybe waiting to see what's in an indictment. is there a larger chorus of republicans saying it's time for him to leave? >> there's renewed calls from republicans for him to resign. there had been some trickling of that before. he's in a district that biden won by 10 points. kevin mccarthy has a very narrow margin. he's been a problem for the caucus since he was elected. the big question i have is if republicans can so clearly see these charges for campaign violations are real and should lead to him resigning, if he's convicted, why can't they believe the same with trump and his legal situations? >> yeah, exactly. they can't come out and speak out against what we saw yesterday. in fact, the opposite, falling in line. they're adamant that george santos has to go. alexi, thank you. coming up next, the film

"monica" received a standing ovation at its world premiere. the stars join us next on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ enough was enough. i talked to an asthma specialist and found out my severe asthma is driven by eosinophils, a type of asthma nucala can help control. now, fewer asthma attacks and less oral steroids that's my nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. talk to your asthma specialist

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control of crohn's means everything to me. ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. i've seen it. >> i'm just so happy you're here. >> this is monica. >> hi. >> hey. >> your mother. >> she doesn't know who i am. >> i don't know what i would do if i couldn't be with my own mom in a moment like this. >> i never would have recognized you. >> listen, whatever is happening, it's not worth it. family comes first. >> i know you told me not to

call, but i just need to talk. >> i can no longer be your mother. that's what she said. >> that's a look at "monica." it opens nationwide this friday. it portrays the reunion between monica, a transwoman who hasn't seen her family since she was a teenager and her mother who has a brain tumor and doesn't recognize her. joining us now, trace lysette and patricia clarkson. good morning to you both. so nice to see you. this film made history at the venice film festival. first time a film led by a transwoman was seen at the festival. it got an 11-minute standing ovation. how did that feel, trace? >> it felt great.

in other ways it led me with a lot of question marks about my career and how does this translate into success for the community at large and myself personally. i don't know. it was an interesting duality to navigate. >> patricia, explain a little bit about this story and why it's been so well-received. >> it's the fastest i've ever said yes to a script in my career. she was attached first. i think because it's about at the end of the day family, forgiveness, love, hope. it's just a beautiful -- it resonates with everyone that sees this. it's not lost on anyone that this gorgeous transgender actress is at the center and leading a film in america that is -- that took venice by storm.

it was actually 11 1/2. >> but who's counting. what kind of actress is trace? what does the future look like? >> my friend who saw it, we had a premier in l.a. after it he said, trace is like the new julia roberts. she's gorgeous. she's everything. that's exactly what this is for this film and for her, for the transcommunity. i think at the end of the day, it's the beauty of that -- your child is your child is your child is your child. >> the relationship between the characters is beautiful. here's a look at another scene in which the characters discuss the significance of monica's name. >> i'm sorry you've been put in this position. what's your name? please remind me.

>> monica. that's a nice name. is it a family name? >> no. it's the name i chose for myself. >> an extraordinarily powerful moment there. trace, tell us about this particular moment. obviously the subject of transgender individuals is part of the political discourse right now. a lot of attacks from the right. what does it mean to have a movie premier at this particular time in this nation? >> it's new, but right now they're especially intense for us. i find myself every day just waking up and trying to protect my joy just to kind of get through the day because if i

scroll past the wrong thing or, you know, catch wind of the wrong bill that's trying to be passed, it can shake me up, take me out, so stories like this are important. they humanize us. they reach middle america hopefully, and we just need more of them. >> did you see some of your own story in monica's story as you read it on the page? >> oh, yeah, there's tons of parallels, and i'm always just trying to find the bridge between my life and whatever character i'm playing. i think some of the things that monica's navigaing like abandonment and just forging your own path are very common themes in the trans community. >> patricia, what message do you think this film can send to people not just here in the states but around the world? why does it feel so important? >> well, i think what's important is, you know, you look at the people literally and figuratively cross -- climb mountains, they cross oceans and rivers to come to our country to

not be persecuted. why do we turn around and persecute our own? it's un-american. it's simply un-american, and at the end of the day, trace and i are equal. we are simply two women sitting here on "morning joe." he's just hotter. [ laughter ] >> oh, my gosh. >> on that -- >> on that note the film "monica" is in theaters on friday, and for the record the ovation was 11 1/2 minutes. so great to have you with us, and congratulations on this film. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back with more "morning joe."

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