that does it for me, thanks fo watching, i'll see you bac here tomorrow at 5 pm eastern. for another live hour of politicsnation my two top guests, expelle tennessee state representative justin jones, he'll tell u about his meeting with vic president kamala harris, and also, the chairman of th congressional black caucus stephen hartford you don't want to miss that. american voices with alici menendez starts right now on msnbc. >> reverend sharpton, wh better to have those conversations i look forward t watching tomorrow. hello, to you at home, i'm alicia menendez. we begin this weekend with two dueling decisions throwing the future of a key abortion medication in limbo. setting up what is likely to b a supreme court showdown first, federal judge in texa issued his highly anticipate ruling we've been talking abou

it for weeks, it suspended fda approval of mifepristone, th drug that, as you know, ha been safely used for more than 20 years, has become the mos common method for terminatin pregnancies in this country. within an hour, another federa judge in washington state, contradicted that ruling ordering the fda to keep the drug available at 17 states in d.c. president biden last night condemning the texas route calling it, quote, the next bi step before the national ban o abortion by republican elected officials have vowed to make a lot america. vice president kamala harris committed to fighting back >> there is no question, president and i are gonna stan with the women of america, and do everything we can to ensure that women have the ability to make decisions about their health care, their reproductiv health care, in a manner tha is what they need, and the decide that, not their government >> the drug will continue to b available for now, since the

texas judge gave the fda seven days to appeal, the justic department said no time in doing so in short, the fda is being tol both to revoke and maintai approval what does that mean for thos seeking abortion care across this country joining me now to discuss, msnbc legal analyst, lis reuben lisa, talk us through these tw cases. in texas and washington state, and what happens next? >> let's first start with conflicting result, alicia, as you noted, in texas last night we had a judge who has staye the fda's 2000 approval of mifepristone that's not an order to the fda to do anything what the plaintiffs had aske for was, an order to withdra or suspend that approval he characterizes this as a lis ricotta, but actually, it' more dramatic if anything. it's basically acting as i that approval in 2000, never happened at all. now, at the same time, as yo noted, there's a ruling in our later, from a washington federal court, that does almos

exactly the opposite that cases brought by 18 states, whose attorneys general wanted to join the fda for making any changes to the existin regulations, in fact, one of the fda to go even further i remove certain restrictions, that exist to date on th availability of mifepristone right now, you have the fd subject to two totally contrar rulings, you've got a seven-da pause on the rulings from th judge in texas, and th department of justice, which filed an immediate appeal last night. with the fifth circuit that's a federal court o appeals, that oversees the area, including texas, it is als known as perhaps the mos conservative and ideological federal peels court in the country. >> lisa, this is the first tim a judge has overruled the fda' scientific testing process you called it a stroke of evil genius tell me why. >> it's a stroke of evil genius, and here is why, alicia. in the wake of dobbs, whic

said, decisions about abortion should be left of the people i their elected representatives, which include their federa representatives, a number of states imposed fairly rigorous bans on abortion, or further restrictions on medication abortion the problem with that, however there is a long-standing federal law, the food drug, an cosmetic act, that allows th fda to make decisions, nationwide, about drug safet and efficacy in fact, the approval of mifepristone was pursuant to that folks in the antiabortio movement realize, if it came down to a battle between the fda, which had approve mifepristone in 2000, and some of the state regulations, th fda might win. because of a legal doctrin called federal preemption. that's where the federal government lawfully acts pursuant to its authority, and there's a conflicting state law, that state law was must fall the antiabortion movemen smartly realized, rather havin a fight between the department of justice in any of these individual states, the bes thing they could do is try t knock out mifepristone

altogether so, it wasn't a battle between the federal government in state, but rather, the federal government's conflicting regulations wouldn't exist anymore. >> lisa, i have about a minute left, i think the big question here, do you see this landin before the supreme court >> absolutely. there's no way that this kit that they can get resolved without it usually, what we see is what's called a circuit slip, went to federal appeals courts diffe on something, and then escalates to the supreme court one of the tools that th conservative movement learne during the trump administration, how to leapfrog appeals cour and sent something directly to the supreme court when the wanted a particular outcome. here, i expect a department of justice to use that on its own if they don't get an answe fairly soon, from the fift circuit court of appeals about whether a state of judge kacsmaryk's order would happen meaning, they would furthe pause his or her after thi coming friday. they will take that to the supreme court, and look fo some guidance from the court o this >> lisa reuben, our msnbc lega analyst, thank you so much for getting us started i want to bring in congresswoman ayanna pressle of massachusetts, she is chair

of the house abortion rights and accessed task force. congresswoman, good to see you you call the texas ruling, quote, a devastating threat to millions of people tell me more about the rea life stakes, the consequences, of what we're watching haven't >> well, this is a matter of life and death i am just sick and tired of ol white men in the gop misleadin the american people, working actively to overturn the wil of the majority of the people, to strip away our fundamenta rights health care is a fundamental right, and abortion care i health care. and that's why myself, and anti-abortion rights activists and politicians, will not stop in the face of these attacks that's why myself and others we see this coordinated attack by anti-abortion right activists and elected officials, they are stopping at nothing after they overturned roe, wha they really want is nationwide ban they're working actively t dismantle sexual and reproductive health, healt care nationwide, including the

ban medication abortion, which will also affect miscarriage care so, this is really yet another effort to interfere with the patient provider relationship, making it harder for people to get the medical care they need and they deserve this is catastrophic and who's gonna be impacted by this low income people, the mos marginalized people, black brown, indigenous, lgbtq disabled, that's who will be impacted by this and let's be clear mifepristone is safe, it i effective. it has been used by more than million people in the u.s. since the fda approved it more than 20 years ago. so, if the powers that be, the forces at work, are going to continue to leverage every too available to strip away ou fundamental human rights, then we have to use every too available to us, i've been i close communication with the governor in massachusetts, governor - i know that i've heard partnership, she'll be leveraging every tool availabl to make sure that access, to

mifepristone, remain available. it is after leverage every tool, litigation, legislation an mobilization this is a matter of life and death. >> i will tell you, you and talked right after the dobbs decision, you were among the first to say, please understand, this is the beginning. it is not the end of their efforts. here we are, i want to pick up on your last point, using ever lever, last year, you helped persuade the biden administration to expand acces to medication abortion given this news, what's your message now to the white house >> well, can't stop, won't stop again we have to leverage ever tool available, the other side is, we have to leverage ever tool from litigation t legislation, we have got t pass the women's healt protection act, we have to pas the each act, mobilization keeping the pressure up, because this is a matter o life and death we cannot allow this to go int effect

the administration's appea this ruling, mifepriston remains legal for the next seven days and we will use every tool w have to fight this >> as mentioned, the texas cas could reach the supreme court, i know you're watching that, i think there are many stories happening all at once here you have the reporting fro propublica about justice thoma now admitting he failed to disclose decades of gifts from the gop mega donor, thes stories are tied, how concerne are you about the integrity of the court, especially given th possibility that there will be considering the future o abortion, once again, in thi country? >> well, of course, i remained very concerned again, when people show you wh they are the first time, believe them the supreme court has been operating in the absence o justice, they have bee consistently overturning the will of the majority of th people, when it comes to votin rights, housing rights, and no reproductive rights. and our bodily autonomy.

they are as far right, and extremism, and they are moving in a way that is to the peri of us all. this is not a drill. every tool must be leveraged every option when it comes down to it, share the sentiments of some advocates of the biden administration should disregar the supreme court ruling that were since the fd authorization. the court has proven it is not on the side of the people. and it is really lost it legitimacy >> congressman pressley, a always, thank you so much fo being with us. coming up, i'm gonna speak wit washington state's first assistant attorney general about the preliminar injunction she argued in her state. and the texas -- she calls merit-less plus, after the gop-le tennessee legislature expelled to young black lawmakers, th widespread condemnation provid the pressure needed to hav them reinstated? plus, days after donald trum is indicted, threats to th judge, lawmakers and witnesses more on that fallout ahead first, richard louis, wh standing by with a look at the

other big stories we'r watching this hour, and msnbc. richard? >> thank you, alicia the pentagon opene investigation into the possibl leak of classified u.s documents about the ukrainia military those documents are posted o twitter and telegram u.s. officials telling nbc news, the government believes th documents are authentic, and warned consequences of tha leak could be severe growing violence and tension in the middle east during holy time for jews, muslims an christians israel's military says, thre rockets were fired from syri toward israel today, no one wa killed friday, two british sisters an an italian tourist were killed in separate attacks in the occupied west bank in tel aviv the rocket launch comes afte israeli airstrikes of both lebanon in the gaza strip, hundreds of palestinians barricaded themselves in sid to roost alum al-aqsa mosque i the process. and pope francis presided over easter vigil mass in st. peter's basilica today he skipped good friday's nighttime procession, due to chilly weather, the pope i

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men had. and finally stepping attacks t the district attorney and th judge, just hours later. sources familiar with th matter told nbc, judge merchan and his family have sinc received dozens of threats the court is increasin security for them. ex fixer, michael cohen, warning today, trump is hoping to bait the judge into issuing a gag order. >> the first thing donald will do, is have his counsel file for a claim, or make a motion, for a violation of his first amendment constitutional rights he will then use it to try t have judge merchan recused, an then try to compound his nonsensical request to have th case moved to someplace else someplace that he deems to b more favorable >> joining me to discuss political investigations reporter for the guardian, jil wine-banks msnbc contributor and former watergate prosecutor, she call the hashtag sisters in law and ig and politics podcast, it is good to see you both jill, i have to ask you.

what do you make of michae cohen's comments there >> well, it's something i agre that donald trump is going t try, and his lawyers will try. it will not succeed. but that doesn't mean they aren't going to try it it is absolute nonsense to ask for a change of venue, this is a nationwide case. everyone knows about it. and if they do bait the judg into issuing a gag order, it will be a very well crafte order, that limits his speech, that provokes violence a speech that threatens th judge, the judge's daughter, the judge's family that threatens da bragg and hi family those things are not allowed under the first amendment, and his lawyers know it. so, they have to be stopped, w know the results of donald trump being unfettered, that was january 6th. we can't afford to have that happen again >> very real consequences, the house judiciary committee just

ask for testimony from two mor prosecutors tied to the hush money case what's this relationship wit the manhattan da, was this really about >> look, they are asking for matthew cullen julio, an ex do prosecutor who came over to th manhattan da's office, to help on this hush money case. as well as pomerantz, th former prosecutor in manhattan da's office who worked on this case house judiciary republican will come and testify. but this is the latest basically, iteration of trying to get more information abou the criminal prosecutions into donald trump trump can't get insight into them, so, we're trying to do i try to get congressional allie to get the information for him but like with this attempt t bait judge merchan into issuin a gag order, this is the kin of political stunt that doesn' succeed, because house republicans don't have jurisdiction over someone like

alvin bragg, who is a stat prosecutor running a independent criminal investigation, in the state of new york so, i think this is generall gonna fail republicans are not gonna ge trump the information that h wants. and that's pretty much gonna b the end of the matter unti december >> jill, as always, i'm gonn ride myself, remind ou viewers. there are multiple paths t accountability here. let's talk about the new yor attorney generals lawsuit. you have trump, about to sit for a second deposition, las time he took the fifth over 40 times. talk us through the logic then of having him testify again. >> in a civil case, thos pleadings of the fifth can b used to draw adverse inferences they cannot be used in a criminal case. but at least you get him on th record, and you have, it's the same thing with calling an witness, you want to know good or bad, what they are going to say. i also want to add, to the question of congress, even i this was a federal prosecutor,

even if those a department o justice, this is a pending investigation. no one can testify about a pending investigation. it's not just that they have n jurisdiction over a local da they have no jurisdiction to call in anyone who's investigating the president. period it's totally improper. >> okay, another path to accountability, the tria against journalist e. jean carroll starts later thi month. how strong is the evidence against him in that case >> the evidence is prett clear. there are two parts to the case one of the most defamation words that he spoke after he left the presidency. because there is a pending cas for the words he spoke while h was president, as to whether that was in the course of his, and i almost can't say thi without having a red fac because it's all ridiculous, weather is in the course of hi job to defame her while he was president. but he said the same words afterwards the defamation is out in public,

it's very clear. i think that that's a pretty strong case. the new law that allows her to bring rape charges, even thoug a statute of limitations might have passed, it's a proper under this new law, is mor than, i think, he said she said because of her having told s many people about it at th time who will corroborate her testimony. so, i think it's a pretty good case >> i appreciate that the insanity of that legal argumen has brought you shame just i having to repeat it. hugo, just to set the stakes the carroll case will decide whether trump sexually assaulted carroll in an op-e in the new york daily news argues, quote, there could b little doubt that a jury verdict declaring trump' rapist would be politicall devastating. i wonder what you're hearing gilles faces my face, and just wonder, as you talk t your sources inside trump world, if that's even how they're seeing, hugo >> that's not how the trum

team is seeing it, for sure. i think, at some point, th trump team is basically decided, if there is a conviction or an indictment, it doesn't reall matter anymore i think the point of shame has long past with trump but i think, generally speaking, neither the new york case or the e. jean carroll case seems to be the kind of thing that will help him in a general election i think there's a little bit o complaining here, the trum political team sees this, they talk about how they think that he will win the republican nomination, they know ho desantis had to come to trump' defense, and how trump i surging in polls on the head t head basis with desantis it's not clear that the typica independent voter, in a genera election, we'll see trump an think, this is the guy that we want for president again someone who is effectively a criminal defendant >> hugo, jill, again, multiple

path to accountability thank you, as always, fo walking us through all of them coming up, the world watched the donald trump circus, ron desantis moved to weaken reproductive rights, and strengthen gun rights. next, a legal adviser at the center of the washington state mifepristone ruling closed the one in texas, talk to us about what we can expect next. ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ why are 93% of sleep number sleepers very satisfied with their bed? maybe it's because you can adjust your comfort and firmness on either side. voltaren. the joy of movement. your sleep number setting. to help relieve pressure points and keep you both comfortable all night.

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this week, confusion and uncertainty after tw conflicting court rulings over one of the most widely use abortion medications i america. friday, a trump appointed judg in texas, who was openly antiabortion, suspended fd approval of mifepristone, paus the ruling for a week, so we could be appealed. then friday evening, i washington state, another judg ruled the medication as safe and should remain available in 17 states and washington d.c.. which sued to expand access to abortion pills with me now, washington stat first assistant attorney

general, kristen majeski, she' a legal adviser at the cente of the washington stat mifepristone thank you very much for taking the time to be with us, you've called this texas lawsui against abortion medicatio merit-less your thoughts on this ruling by a judge kacsmaryk, and th impact it's gonna have acros this country >> i believe that it's a merit -less ruling, it's a deepl disturbing and troubling ruling i can't say that it was a bi surprise i think that it's apparent fro reading the order, why the plaintiffs in that case went t such great lengths to make sur that their case would be heard by this particular judge >> here is one of the reasons wanted to talk to you, wel this texas case was playing out, your state, washington state along with 16 other states i washington d.c., fought to prevent the fda from restricting mifepristone following the promising ruling out of washington state. i just wonder, is ther anything for your office to do right now, other than sit an wait >> i think it remains to b

seen, we're going to b constantly vigilant in thi scenario fortunately, judge rice agreed with us, that we needed an injunction to protect access t mifepristone in our 18 states we're confident that the fda will follow that injunction, will obey that injunction, and that access in our states will be protected, regardless o what happens with the texa case in the appeal to the fift circuit. >> i wonder, both what's makin you so confident in that assessment, and also, when you say you're going to remain vigilant, what that actually looks like in practice >> right, well, we're confiden that our injunction will remai in place, because the fift circuit has no authority t overturn an injunction issue by a federal court i washington so, the order, that judge reic issued, protects access in 1 plaintive states in our place,

which are not parties to the texas case in terms of remaining vigilant what i mean by that, we will monitor all the developments that have to do with access to mifepristone, as it affects ou states, and if there's ever threat to access, we will ac in any way that our powe allows us to do. to protect access in our states the ultimate goal -- sorry, go ahead. >> no, i when you are th ultimate goal is than alaska go ahead >> you bet the ultimate goal of our lawsuit, is to expand access t mifepristone it is one of the safest drug out there, it's demonstrably safer than tylenol but for a long time, the fda has head restrictions on thi drug that make it very difficult to prescribe and dispense, and for patients t obtain ultimately, what we're seeking in our lawsuit, not only t protect access to this critica drug, that women need fo health care, but to expand

access and make it easier for doctors to prescribe the drug, jus like they would prescribe an other prescription medication. >> here's the thing i will hel you understand, which is abortion access has become increasingly complicated since the fall of roe. and when it comes to thi widely used safe medication, these rulings out of texas, an out of your state, washington, i would argue, they make thing murkier. before the texas ruling even dropped, you had a ruling we expected, could the justic department or the fda do anything ahead of that decisio to make rules on medicatio abortion access more clear to prevent conflicting state laws, on mifepristone, given that the murkiness is part o the challenge here >> i agree that the murkines is part of the challenge the fda is in a position where they are a party to this cas in texas that has resulted i this really terrible outcome in my opinion.

we are confident that the fd will continue to defend it very strong position in that case and we're hopeful that the fifth circuit will objectively apply the law, and overtur that texas decision, and restore the clarity an certainty that access to mifepristone is available in states where abortion is accessible >> washington state, first assistant attorney general kristen majeski, we are slated to talk before the ruling from your state dropped, i'm so happy we're able to have thi conversation today thank you. >> joining us now mini timmaraju president of pro-choice america doug mini, talk to me abou your fears i've talked a lot of legales over the last 30 minutes let's talk about what this actually means for people wh are seeking medication and seeking care >> yeah, i think what th assistant tierney journal just laid out, and i just want to compliment washington state, and the democratic a.g.'s, again, this case is really

washington state case is reall critical to helping us hold th line, from this problemati decision from judge matthe kacsmaryk. in texas we know, at least for the next week, possibly longer, medication abortion, mifepristone specifically, i available. folks should understand that and they should be talking t their providers, their doctors about how they can access it it's really important to know, right, now it is legal and she had mifepristone be of the market, anytime in the nea future, my - the other medication abortio is still available look, we knew this judge, he's an extremist, you've covered it we knew how he was gonna rule, even before he heard the arguments. he's an extremist. who's refused to use standar medical terms, and if you read the decision, it's outrageousl inflammatory it reads like something yo would read on a far-right blob not the writings of a judge. and this is a guy who has record of affiliation with the most radical organizations, an

was handpicked by trump to attack our freedoms. he's lied about the medicine he's lied about the science. he's lied about the impact o women and families and even the a.m.a. has come out saying, this ruling flie in the face of science and distorts reality so, your point about the mas confusion in the country, th landscape of abortion access i this country, between dobbs, state by state patchwork o rules, now two dueling cases it just creates more chaos and more uncertainty for patient who need this access and providers who desperatel want to provide it but are living in a climate of fear, of persecution, an prosecution. >> and that chaos, to your point, is by design. do you and our sitting her talk about texas, you know you talk about texas for weeks now there's also big news this wee out of idaho, you have the governor signing an abortion trafficking law. nehra, your organization tweeted, if you're an anti choice lawmaker we're coming for your seats next year >> how are you doing that?

what are the resources necessary, where are you focusing your attention? >> most recently, wisconsin. we were proud to be part of th effort on the ground there t elect -- and it was really critical, we saw, we were positive about th outcome going into that race but the margins by which folks in wisconsin showed thei support for abortion rights an their vote for the judge really we're encouraging and we're actually not gonna wait till next year to go fo folks seats, we've got som critical races this year we've got some big fights in virginia, we've got a big figh to protect governor andy beshear in kentucky, he is the last standing pro-choice governor of her deep red state and we've got to protect him he's been vetoing some reall bad, problematic fills from th start. look, to your point, what ar we doing we're mobilizing on the ground this is really important we are using these extremist actions, by folks in texas folks in idaho, to reall

underscore to our 4 millio members, and activists acros the country, eight out of te americans were with us o abortion rights, now more than ever is the time to ge organized. we are on the ground we are mobilizing activists. we are doing information trainings on medicatio abortion right now, across the country, as we speak we think that's gonna be tremendously mobilizing, alicia, because we know medication abortion is actually mor popular than even abortion even 49% of republicans ar supportive of giving medicatio abortion legal the republican party, folk like ron desantis, they better wake up to that. we're not counting on them t wake up on, it we're countin on our members to mobilize and get out the vote next year and this year. >> mini timmaraju, as always thank you so much for bein with us. next, days after public and le state legislature expelled t young black democrats, we look at the five alarm fire for democracy that is happening in tennessee. and our next hour, californi congressman, eric swalwell, on

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come on guys! our big adventure begins now! let's-a go. [ ominous music playing ] yeah! the inaction of this body, whe it comes to the crisis of mass shootings, is injurious to the people, the obedience of thi body to special interest group like the nra's injurious to th people, the proliferation of guns that you promote in the state's injurious to the people, and so we have no other choice but to get our descent marke

for the journals >> tennessee state representative, justin jones defending his decision to join his constituents in protesting gun violence this week the republican-controlled hous leader expelled jones, representative justin pearson, for participating. states gop did not just kick t people out of the chamber. they disenfranchised more than 130,000 tennessean's, who pu jones and pierson in office. the white house calls th tennessee gop's move undemocratic >> they understood the importance, these three. of standing, to say that peopl will not be silenced to say that a democracy, hears the cries, here is the police, hears the demands, of it people who say that children should b able to live and be safe and g to school and not be in fear

[applause] >> important to know, that state representative glori johnson joined jones and pearson to protest gun reform. johnson, who is white, evade expulsion by just one vote when asked why her black colleagues were expelled, an she was not, this was he response >> why do you feel like there' a difference in the outcom between you and your colleague >> i will answer your question it might have to do with the color of our skin. >> it might. president biden has invited al three lawmakers to be with him at the white house in the near future joining us now, principle of a black to the future action fund, alicia garza alicia, the new york times opinion writer margaret rankle responded what happened in tennessee, and getting at th stakes here, which is sh writes, doc democracy does not exist in a state where officials can be sent home for nothing more than voicing th opinions of voters who are pounding on the state hous door, are demanding to b heard. talk to me, alicia, abou what's at stake in tennessee

right now? >> well, first of all, alicia, thank you so much for having m today, it's great to be on wit my namesake. the other thing i want to sa here about what's happening in tennessee, it's a clarion call for what's happening across th country. what we have here is a situation in which people wh are pushing to change the laws not just in tennessee, but around the country, in relationship to gun violence are being silenced and this is something very familiar for black voter across the nation. where we find consistently even though black voters are deeply in favor of gun control legislation, deeply in favor o increased measures to contro gun violence, which includes things like background checks, that these voices are bein silenced of course, we saw that with th ousting of two out of thre legislators, who dared to stan up to do their jobs, to be abl

to change the laws after a major, and very painful, schoo shooting occurred in their community. all three of those legislators have the experience of havin lost someone or having been caught up in situation of a school shooting at the expense of their safety and quite frankly, i can say for sure, across the country the sentiments are growing, gu control needs to be addressed. but they're also growing, that democracy is deteriorating before our eyes. from the disenfranchisement of black voters in particular across the nation, and certainly here in tennessee, t just black voters deeply feeling like we show up, w participate, and our voices ar not being heard. this is something very important for us to be takin into account >> absolutely, i would pull up some polling from th organization it shows that gun violence is top issue for black voters across this country, with 44

saying they want gun safet legislation enacted. here's the thing, i think yo can look at all of these polic issues and they all time back to th bigger questions of democrac and reform, includin gerrymandering, which yo referenced, you wouldn't b sitting here having this conversation in the same way if there were not these larger forces at play, making sur that the voices of a minorit appeared as a voice of the majority and i wonder, for you, a someone who does the work of both understanding thi electorate, but also engagin this electorate, such that the don't decide hey, i'm gonna si this one out because that's always th concern. if people come to the plac where they feel disenfranchise from their democracy, if the feel ignored, that then, instead of showing up twice as hard, they begin to slink away i wonder how you think about that complicated push and pull >> well, we're looking at it i relationship to two differen factors. one, factor, how is it tha

black voters are looking a this moment, and looking forward to 2024. then, of course, there is major election that is coming, where, again, the future o democracy is at stake. i know we've been saying thi for the better part of three years now. but it's absolutely becoming more and more true we have to keep in mind, black voters are paying attention to what's happening in this country right now. alicia, every single presidential election, and eve a midterm election, everybod rings their hands about what black voters are gonna do. will black voters show up an participate? and the fact of the matter, as you said, black voters do turn up and turn out, according to set of issues that we deeply deeply care about. in our polling, what we find consistently, is that issues o the economy are at the top o the agenda shortly after followed b issues of gun violence and violence in ou communities.

and then followed after that of course, by issues of racism and discrimination and all of those things are on display right now. and the way that legislators deal with these issues, really do impact when and how black voters will show up during election cycles. i also want to be very clear what we need to also be paying attention to here, we have t call out what's happening, you did such a great job earlier by saying, these are braze attempts by the minority t control the will of th majority from abortion access, to gun control, what we ar seeing as a party that i chosen to fight a culture war, rather than put legislation on the table that actually make peoples lives better for example, these legislators are proposing that teacher carry guns as opposed to proposing that w put stricter regulations on wh can have guns, so that peopl are not at stake this is, again, a very goo

example of the minorit controlling the will of th majority >> alicia garza, you teed me u perfectly for a next conversation, thank you so muc as always, for being with us ahead, what rhonda sanchez did this week, it might have flown right under the radar, due t the trump indictment, th avalanche of news we saw thi week we make sure it is not lost. stay with us liver new apps fast using the services you want in the clouds of your choice. with flexible multi-cloud services that enable digital innovation and enterprise control, vmware helps you innovate and grow. weeds... they have you surrounded. you're just gonna stand there? or are ya gonna take your lawn back. we're gonna take it back. we're gonna take it back. with scotts turf builder triple action! it gets three jobs done at once - kills weeds. prevents crabgrass. and keeps your lawn growing strong. glorious! -agggghhhhhh! -aaagghhhh. no no no.

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a potential 2024 matchup wit the former president desantis continues pushing policies that fire up the base but remain unpopular wit everyone else. this week, he signed a law allowing people to carry loade guns without a permit. and is expected to sign an extreme six-week abortion ba that is heading to his desk. desantis signed that gun laws, despite polling last month showing 77% of floridian opposed. as for the abortion ban he's about to sign, pollings show 3 to 4 voters are against such a ban with no exceptions and then, there is the trump and his indictment in new york city despite, it polling shows trum is more popular than desantis, and a potential 2024 showdown. joining me now, msnbc politica analyst and former florida congressman, david jolly congressman, jolly, this would have been huge news on any other week, there was just s much news this week, i worry that this got buried, and wanna make sure you and i go to talk about it which is, you have this week where a lot of the nationa attention was about findin solutions to curb gun violence

and you have desantis making i easier to carry guns in th state of florida, i wonder wha that means for floridians an what that means about hi priorities >> yeah, run desantis remain one of the republicans in th country that believes th answer to gun violence is more guns he continues to demonstrat he's out of step, not just for the country, but wit floridians as you mentioned, he signe that, alicia, behind close doors. it was an interesting moment ron desantis continues to show that he's pretty bad a presidential politics. shortly after the nashvill shootings, ron desantis had really high profile event, a one of the largest gun shops i the entire country he did a book signing in georgia. and was immediately hit fo that just for the optics of it, for being out of touch with grieving country so, a few days later, when h signed this hallmark legislation, dangerous wil legislation if you will, i florida, he did so behin closed doors he recoiled. i will tell you, it is wel believed that this is just one

step towards the final ultimate gun priority of ron desantis, which is open carry. what was signed this year, you don't need a permit, you don't need training, you can carry anywhere next year, what we believe h will do, in the legislativ session, is sign a law tha allows people to open carry. put the gun on your hip. carry it to the grocery stor for the whole world to see >> and there's a parallelism t what we saw with the abortio ban in your state, just less than a year ago, he signed a 15-week abortion ban, now he's thinking about signing a six-week abortion ban. building incrementally on th extremism. i want to talk to you about ho this all fits into 2024, you got an indictment in new york, and the trump campaign playing offense in the 202 presidential race, now going after desantis's donors trying to make the case, which you've kind of made to, that desantis is not ready for primetime it seems that there is the possibility that desantis is

missing the moment to define his own candidacy? >> yeah, alicia, in terms of how unsteady ron desantis is o the day of donald trump' arraignment, rhonda sanchez an his wife hosted a pet adoption day in the state capital and stayed out of the press. because we're continuing to se donald trump masterfully, in today's republican politics, use the indictment t strengthen his hand, while ron desantis continues to trip u and fall the delta between the two is now almost 25 points ron desantis still, it appears his people are planning a july 4th announcement obviously, his narrative being freedom. the state legislature about to amend the resigned to run law, to become effective on july one, if rhonda sanders doesn't have to leave the governorship, likely to announce july 4th on all these hard right themes. again, if this is donald trump's party, ron desanti might not get very far after july 4th >>,.

i mean, what is striking to me just a title together, you hav him going out there on gun past where fluttery ends are you have been going out ther on abortion past where floridians are unclear if that is ideological or if that is what the inten to out trump trump in presidential primary and then he still is not closing the gap. not just feels like th ultimate tragedy >> he's not donald trump he's also demonstrating to the country, he's not ready fo primetime. i would say, in some part, thi reflects the party more than just ron desantis himself. after the dobbs decision, he did not want to go further tha 15 weeks and fellow republican said florida's going to be an abortion sanctuary so, ron desantis had to move o the six-week ban you're seeing him do it on gun as well. i would suggest this, nothin is going to stop ron desanti from running and falling on hi face, we all remember the buil

the wall and, what peopl forget, in the last reelection campaign, he ran an ad tha said, on the eight-day god created ron desantis this is someone, he and hi wife have long believed, the have been ordained to be president of the united states the problem is, the only deity in republican politics, is a guy that just got indicted for paying hush money to an adul film star. >> crochet that on a pillow, former congressman david jolly thank you so much. >> at the top of the hour, hawaii senator - reacts to friday's decision ou of texas, it can impac millions of americans, and t abortion providers, one from wisconsin, one for michigan, are gonna lay out the real world stakes of this war being waged on reproductive freedom. stay witush orry-free way to kill bugs? zevo traps use light, not odors or chemical insecticides, to attract and trap flying insects. they work continuously so you don't have to. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly.

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