thanks for spending time with us on "the beat" with ari melber on a busy news week msnbc has you covered. it's a big news night and everyone is here we have the whole lineup coming up later tonight, you heard rachel maddow mondays she's in for a maddow friday you don't want to miss that. lawrence, the whole gang, including joy reid "the reidout" with joy reid kicks it all off next.

tonight on "the reidout" -- >> give the president some money to fight this [ bleep ]. this is going to destroy america. we're going to fight back at the ballot box we're not going to give in how does this end? trump wins in court and he wins the election that's how this ends >> for their exalted twice impeached indicted leader, donald trump as we learn much more about the charges he likely faces and how his arraignment will play out on tuesday. michael cohen, trump's longtime fixer who went to prison for his role in these same alleged crimes joins me tonight. plus, the same republicans who scream about states' rights are now trying to intimidate a local prosecutor manhattan d.a. alvin bragg the truth is trump is being treated just like any other accused criminal and significantly better than, i don't know, say the central park

five but we begin tonight on this new day in our country, a day that shows to the world that no one, not even a former president, is above the law. the decision by the manhattan grand jury to indict donald trump puts us all in completely new territory, with trump facing what no other president before has ever faced the criminal justice system. the indictment remains sealed, but two sources familiar with the matter tell nbc news it includes approximately 30 counts related to document fraud, and the associated press is reporting tonight it includes at least one felony offense, according to two people familiar with the matter. what we know as of tonight is that trump is expected to travel to new york on monday night to surrender to authorities and be arraigned on tuesday according to two senior officials familiar with the matter, trumplans to turn himself over around 1:00 p.m as of now, it is not expected he

will be handcuffed or put in a holding cell he will be brought directly to the courtroom where he will be fingerprinted. it's unclear whether there will be a mugshot taken at that time. all of this, according to officials familiar with the planning for trump's court hearing. judge juan marshawn is expected to preside over that arraignment. the same judge who presided over the trial of former trump organization cfo allen weisselberg. trump is already attacking the judge's impartiality, claiming he hates him and treated his company iciously this comes as trump continues to rage post on his twitter knockoff with more attacks on manhattan district attorney alvin bragg and his staff. while also demanding a change of venue because he cannot get a fair trial in new york which is kind of ironic. given that new york for most of trump's life has been his non-tax paying, non-bill and debt repaying, slapping his name on buildings he didn't actually

build, alleged sexual assaulting crimy playground trump built his entire brand in new york, and how he says he can't be tried fairly there. weird. but wait, there's more trump's legal team is planning to challenge the indictment to try to get the case thrown out altogether before it even gets to trial just remember, this indictment is only the first step in what could be a long path ahead to yet another potential first in our country's history, the criminal conviction of a former president. and joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney and professor at the university of alabama school of law, and neal katyal, former u.s. acting solicitor general and georgetown law professor, both are msnbc legal analysts and we're thankful to have them here joyce, i do want to start with you. these are the potential charges that we're hearing about again, it's sealed so we don't know what they are, but here are the potential charges. a potential misdemeanor charge for falsifying business records. a potential felony charge for falsifying records with the intent of committing an additional crime

and prosecutors could also allege additional crimes including the hush money amounts to an improper donation benefitting trump's candidacy. i want to zero in on the second one. can you explain how falsifying business records and that being a misdemeanor state offense could in theory become a felony? >> sure, and i think you make a really important point here, joy, which is that we don't know what's in the indictment we can't assess charges because we haven't read them but i think it's fair for us to explore some of the potential charges, and this is one that people have focused on because while falsifying business records is a misdemeanor under new york state law, if you do it to commit another crime or to conceal another crime, it morphs into a felony. so the question becomes, what's the additional crimes? what are the other crimes that could possibly have been committed here there are a couple just based on what we know publicly that seem

like they could be good choices. there are some tax violations that could be involved there are some campaign finance violations both of those come with their own legal questions and the campaign finance has some sticky questions involving whether you can use a federal crime as the accelerator charge here. but something that i would caution people to think about as they look at this and something that i experienced a lot of the time when i had an important case in the grand jury and there was speculation in the press, was that we were privy to additional information that the public didn't have and so we knew what we were getting ready to charge. it went above and beyond what the public knew in many cases. >> that's important. we have to keep saying we don't know what the charges are until they're unsealed because what you're seeing is not only are we trying to figure out what could this be, but his attorneys, his defense, the one attorney we see on tv, his tv attorney, joe tacopina, they're already trying

to litigate the case and try to make it seem minimal and make it seem like this is an attack by this d.a. on something that was purely personal. let me play you joe tacopina's latest missive >> we do know it centers around a legal, common confidentiality agreement signed years and years ago with stormy daniels and between her attorneys and michael cohen. the only other precedent that is remotely close was the john edwards case that was prosecuted by federal authorities it was prosecuted because there was a donor involved as opposed to using personal funds like here somehow, a state prosecutor who doesn't have jurisdiction over elections is prosecuting the case this was a personal resolution for a personal matter that would have been made irrespective of the campaign >> my challenge with that, my problem with that, neal, and you're the real lawyer here, that the payment was not just, hey, let me give you some money and get reimbursed

that was a part of what was apparently a catch and kill scheme that the national enquirer, a mr. pecker being the head of the national enquirer, his organization already admitted this scheme existed rolling stone reported in 2021, american media inc. which is mr. pecker's company, unlawfully aided trump in 2016. they found they had violated federal election laws by making a payment to playboy model karen mcdougal in order to purchase and bury a story about an alleged 2006 affair with trump pecker enters a nonprosecution agreement in which he admitted the payment had been made in order to help trump's campaign that's david pecker. he testified twice before this grand jury does that say to you that tacopina might be trying to make it seem innocuous when it's really part of that kind of scheme >> well, before getting, joy, to tacopina, i want to say my bottom line on this is we should

be absolutely celebrating the fact that we have a functioning judicial system that treats all of its citizens equally, but i don't think we should be celebrating the fact we have a former president who has been indicted this is an incredibly important event for our country and an incredibly solemn one. when tacopina says this, that there was no crime and stuff like that, i think you're exactly right to point out, wait a minute, the fec has concluded this was a campaign finance violation and the justice department in 2018 sent someone to prison for this hush money scandal, a guy named michael cohen who is going to be on your show in a little bit, and they put michael cohen in jail for the same stuff, and the justice department when they did that, they filed a sentencing memo, and in writing, it says this was a crime and it was directed at not michael cohen coming up with this on his own, but donald trump was the one who ordered cohen to do this and that was not just -- that

was the u.s. justice department, but not the barack obama or merrick garland justice department that was the trump justice department that made that conclusion when you hear lindsey graham and others talking about this being political and stuff, you know, it's a little hard given what the trump justice department said in 2018 my bottom line on this is very similar to joyce's, which is we haven't seen the charges lindsey graham hasn't seen the charges so not sure exactly how he knows what's in them, but whatever those charges are, trump is going to be entitled to all of the protections of the criminal system which our founders bent over backwards to protect criminal defendants, all 12 jurors are going to have to agree that trump committed a crime and under the highest standard in the law, beyond a reasonable doubt what i think people like lindsey graham are upset about is for the first time, trump is going to have to face the music, a jury of his peers. he can't plead executive privilege, he can't plead speech

or debate immunity it's finally time for him to have to answer the call of the prosecutors. >> and i think also, maybe, what they fear is that this case, it sort of breaks the glass this isn't the only thing trump is potentially facing. there are all these other cases that go all the way up to the jack smithinvestigation, far graver we're talking about an attempted insurrection, taking documents, including highly classified documents, maybe obstructing the e. jean carroll case, which is a civil case, the a.g. has a civil case i could go on and on police officers have sued him over injuries for january 6th, and there's the fani willis fulton county d.a. case, so to stay with you for a second, you're right it's nothing to be celebrated, but for trump, it might be something to be feared because there has been this sense that prosecutors might be too frightened to be the first to do this once it's done, it sort of

demystifies the idea you can prosecutor a former president, right? >> that's exactly right. trump has benefitted from years of threatening prosecutors, threatening the opposition, cajoling them into silence, and here you finally have a district attorney who said enough is enough, i'm going to go to a grand jury a grand jury has to sign off on it, and it did it found it's more likely than not that trump committed these crimes and now it goes into the criminal justice process if you're jack smith or fani willis, i think your job in terms of indictment has gotten a little easier. also say that trump's lawyers are making this point about a change of venue because he can't get a fair trial in new york, as you were saying. you know, we just handled that in the george floyd murder the four cops tried to move venue for exactly the same reason it was denied, and it was denied for the simple reason that publicity in these cases is, you know, pretty ubiquitous from one

jurisdiction to another. i don't think that's going anywhere >> yeah, he could go to the moon everyone knows who donald trump is, thanks to donald trump they know who he is. there is no way to get a jury that doesn't know anything let me go to another thing, to move off this for a moment with you, joyce dominion, because there's also some movement in that. that's another case of seeming impunity may be falling away they had -- fox had moved for summary judgment, trying to throw this case out. the associated press is now reporting that the judge has said this case will go to trial. this is what the a.p. reports. the evidence developed in this civil proceeding for the judge demonstrates that it is crystal clear that none of the statements relating to dominion about the 2020 election are true that is what the judge wrote in this case, in their summary judgment ruling. this case is going to trial. your thoughts on that, joyce >> joy, you and i had discussed this when these motions were being filed. and the issue here centers around this legal burden of reckless disregard, where

dominion has to prove that fox made statements either with reckless disregard for their truth or actual knowledge of their falsity. usually in these cases, you see a plaintiff who tries to prove that there was reckless disregard about truth. but dominion has come forward with actually evidence that fox made some of these statements knowing that they were false they will be entitled to go to trial. they will get judgment on some of their claims. and the real problem that fox faces going forward is that in many ways this becomes a case that they can't resolve because dominion will be highly motivated to air the evidence in public, to let a jury hear it, to let a jury decide their claims, including those extremely large requests not just for compensatory but for punitive damages too >> and right behind them is smartmatic, that has almost the identical case they also would like to see go to trial.

it just gets very much more interesting from here. joyce vance and neal katyal, always appreciate you both up next on "the reidout," michael cohen, the man at the center of the investigation that led to this indictment, joins me to share his insights when "the reidout" continues a little number you'll never forget. did you know that liberty mutual custo— ♪ liberty mutual. ♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ ♪ custom home insurance created for you all. ♪ ♪ now the song is done ♪ ♪ back to living in your wall. ♪ they're just gonna live in there? ♪ yes. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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michael cohen is now poised to become the star witness against his former boss, capping his remarkable arc from the longtime lawyer who wunz said he would take a bullet for trump to implicating him in a crime his prosecutors are expected to allege trump falsified documents in a hush money payment to stormy daniels cohen explained the payment in his 2019 congressional testimony. >> in 2016, prior to the election, i was contacted by keith davidson, who is the

attorney or was the attorney for ms. clifford, stormy daniels and after several rounds of conversations with him about purchasing her life rights for $130,000, what i did each and every time is go straight into mr. trump's office and discuss the issue with him when it was ultimately determined, and this was days before the election, that mr. trump was going to pay the $130,000, in the office with me was allen weisselberg, the chief financial officer of the trump organization he acknowledged to allen that he was going to pay the $130,000 and that allen and i should go back to his office and figure out how to do it >> michael cohen is the only person who has faced any accountability for that so-called catch and kill scheme.

he went to prison for his role federal prosecutors in new york infamously noted cohen himself has now admitted he acted in coordination with and at the direction of individual one. well, individual one is expected to be arraigned in a manhattan court on tuesday and joining me now is michael cohen, former trump personal attorney, principal of crisis exand host of the political beatdown and mea culpa podcast his new book is called revenge, how donald trump weaponized the department of justice against his critics. thank you as always for be here. always appreciate you coming on. good to see you. let's start with that, the testimony that you gave is about this catch and kill scheme we know, and we just talked in the previous block about ami, the company, american media, admitting to the fec that this catch and kill scheme existed for karen mcdougal that it existed and it was designed to help trump's campaign. now i want to play for you audio

of you talking with donald trump and allen weisselberg about that scheme take a look, listen. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david. i spoke to allen about it. when it comes time for the financing which will be -- >> listen, what financing? >> we'll have to pay >> cash? >> no, no. >> so i guess what joe tacopina is trying to sort of allege is that that whole scheme was your idea, that you did it on your own, and that donald trump had nothing to do with it. >> absolutely. what else is he supposed to say? one of the biggest problems with somebody like joe tacopina, when you get around donald trump is donald will let you run with the ball because he knows you're going to -- he knows you're going to fumble it, and he's not going to be there to help you try to pick it up. he's just going to get rid of you. how many times have we seen that happen in trump world before

tacopina's biggest problem is he has no knowledge of any of the facts. he's basically come out on television and he's getting quite a lot of air time. and he is spewing nonsense, but the nonsense that he's spewing is nonsense that donald trump is telling him, this is what i want you to say so he doesn't really care if you, joy, believe what he's saying or any of your viewers believe, as long as he's appealing to a party of one. and that party of one happens to be individual number one, who we all know is donald j. trump. >> you know, what's interesting is to your point, donald trump's attorneys were blindsided by this announcement, to the point where donald trump was actually praising the grand jury and saying look, i have new respect for this grand jury. they're not going to indict me at all, and obviously, the a.g.'s office was stealthy about making sure they had no idea that it was coming even though he previously predicted he was going to get indicted. do you think he was genuinely

shocked and really believed he had beaten it? >> yeah, because again, donald lives in donald's head, and the fact that you had people like tacopina and people like bob costello and a whole slew of other pundits on this station as well as other stations telling you, for example, bob costello went in to testify, all of a sudden, he's now impeached my credibility. obviously, we know that's not true in fact, nothing that he said clearly changed anybody's mind however, they have the same thing with tacopina. he comes out there and says, well, after donald of course puts it out there that he's going to get indicted last tuesday, rakes in another $2.5 million in campaign donations, and then you have guys like tacopina running around and saying, there's more than a 50/50 chance that alvin bragg is going to drop this case altogether that michael cohen's testimony has now been basically disparaged to the extent that there is no more case.

and more than 50% likely that alvin bragg is going to drop the case they do this because they think that by playing, you know, the media game, that they're appealing to a court of public opinion, that that has any bearing on a court of law. and we all know that it doesn't. >> you know, donald trump is now bragging he's raised something like $4 million. he's trying to -- he's sort of out there with a lot of bravado as if he's not afraid at all, but we now know this is going to be a real booking. he's going to fete his fingerprints taken he's going to throw through what you went through >> not exactly the same. >> tell me >> it's going to be very different. he's the former president of the united states, and there's a certain deference. i was handcuffed don't forget, i went through that processing twice. second time with the unconstitutional remand that the court over at the 500 pearl street decided it was important not only that i should be handcuffed but shackled as well.

it's amazing that i could be handcuffed, shackled why don't they put me in an outfit like hannibal lecter because the president got his picker pulled by a porn star >> that is an excellent point. there is this sense, it used to be your job to help donald trump maintain this impunity and he's never really had to face the music really for the things he's done, but to your point, he was able to use his justice department who prosecuted you, so he's been able to manipulate prosecutors to get his way and now he can't. you know this man. do you think he's jen wsly afraid as you said, it won't be the same, but he's still going to face a version of what regular people have to deal with >> it goes way beyond scared or way beyond afraid he's petrified he could put on whatever fake bravado that he wants. knowing donald trump as we all do, who is not just -- forget about the fact he's a germophobe, and so the fact he's even going to be in this yare

qua is going to sort of make his skin crawl, at the same time, he's now being held accountable. and i think neal katyal turned around and said it, it's the first time in his life the guy is actually being held accountable for his own dirty deeds. and look, our district attorney, alvin bragg, dropped a 2,000-pound dirty deed indictment right onto this guy's lap of accountability. and it's not sometl with and he's really looking for somebody to figure out how to get rid of that 2000-pound weight of accountability that's sitting on his legs and it's just not possible. now he has to, every time he closes his eyes, he knows he's one minute, one hour, one day closer to having to go into the 80 center street and be processed. >> you know, donald trump has a whole cadre of political figures

who are really violating the constitution to try to defend him, making all sorts of threatening noises at the district attorney. but you testified, and i will never forget this testimony, about the fact that donald trump would never leave office peacefully that there would never be a peaceful transfer of power that did happen. knowing him again as you do, how concerned should we be, quite frankly, given what happened on january 6th and given the rhetoric that's coming out of his truth social, how concerned should we be about the security of this d.a., the security of our country, and the courthouse, and really places around the country where there are trump supporters who might be pretty angry on tuesday >> you know, joy i appreciate what you're saying. the only problem is everybody seems to leave out there are a whole slew of witnesses like myself that are going to be testifying against donald. and what donald -- look, i appreciate the issue that is now confronting the district

attorney, but he's got police security around him all the time there is a whole slew of witnesses that will be brought in, and what donald trump is doing is he's using that mob language, that mob code of that speech where he doesn't really say it, but what he's doing is he's sending two messages. the first message is, you witness, you need to be concerned because i have a slew of millions of people that i'm speaking to, and then of course, the second half of that code goes to those individuals for them to do or think that this is what donald trump wants you to do without donald trump actually coming out and saying it and that's part of his superpower >> yeah. and are you concerned for your safety >> i'm concerned for my safety every day. i'm concerned for my family. i'm concernedfor my friends. i'm concerned for this country do i think, for example, that any of these trump acolytes are

going to pull another january 6th issue and an insurrection here in new york absolutely not anybody that's been to new york or knows new york, and i'm a lifelong new yorker, our nypd is better than most armies. and i tell you, they don't play. and you can bet your bottom dollar that they're already fully apprised of all of the situations they have, all sorts of contingencies in play, and the first time these guys decide to get stupid, it's not going to end well for them. >> we will be watching, and michael cohen, always appreciate it stay safe and thank you very much for being here. michael cohen, author of revenge, and the host of the political beatdown thank you. appreciate you ahead, alvin bragg delivers a blistering rebuke to the house republicans trying to meddle in his investigation. we'll be right back.

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government, look at the chairman of the house jushrysoever sight committees where they have sent two plletters to alvin bragg demanding here hand over documents and communication related to had ongoing criminal indictment of the twice impeached president. it's important to note that prosecutors are barred from sharing information about an active investigation with third parties. additionally, most of the material is protected either by attorney/client privilege or another norm of legal protection known as the attorney work product doctrine and i would like to add that if you, dear viewer, ever got indicted, god forbid, i promise you, your local congressman would not ride to the rescue or help you in any way because it would be unconstitutional. our federal and state governments act separately and independently of one another in fact, these demands from these republicans mark a decidedly dark turn for congressional republicans who

are essentially using big government in defense of their cult leader. earlier today, we learned trump is actively colluding with allies on the hill and consulting with them about the next steps in their public defense of him in his impending indictment you would think republicans would have more important legislative things to do the general counsel for alvin bragg did not mince words when she responded. she wrote, and i quote, your examination of the facts of a single criminal investigation is an improper and dangerous ayew surpation of the executive use, and based on your close collaboration with mr. trump in attacking this office and the grand jury process, it appears you are acting more like criminal defense counsel trying to gather evidence for a client than a legislative body. and then i'm just going to guess, she dropped the mic joining me now is congressman bennie thompson of mississippi he served as the chairman of the

january 6th select committee, and i'll note, sir, you are a former prosecutor. in heinz county, mississippi i wonder at your level of offense, at seeing this level, let me read you a few of the attacks on this process and of this prosecutor. rand paul, trump indictment would be a disgusting abuse of power. the d.a. should be put in jail kevin mccarthy calls it outrageous abuse of power by a radical d.a. who lets violent criminals walk as he seeks v vengeance against trump. marjorie greene, new york, put your maga hats on. under our constitutional right, we will support donald trump and protest the tyrant lauren boebert, weaponization cannot stand and this is a doozy. lindsey graham on the way to the d.a.'s office on tuesday, trump should smash some windows, rob a few cops and

he would be arrested immediately. your thoughts. >> thank you for having me if you'r you were to ask what m colleagues have done, they would charge us with some form of obstruction or other form of legal activity, but my colleagues in congress think somehow that donald trump is above the law. and clearly, all of us as members of congress, we take an oath that oath says that we swear allegiance to the constitution of the united states of america. part of that constitution is the separation of powers and so here we have the legislative body deciding that now we are all powerful and that we can go and attack a district attorney who is doing his job in the state of new york, in the city of new york, and all of a

sudden because an admitted person who had a relationship with a woman but he paid for the relationship in the wrong way. so he's admitted it. so i don't understand what my colleagues are trying to do other than to try to somehow give the impression because donald trump was president, that he should not be held accountable for his actions, either before he became president, during, or after. so i say this is part of the trump playbook he'll do it this time. if anything goes in georgia, you'll hear it again if the special counsel -- somehow, they want to give the impression that former president trump is the victim. but he's a guy who has admitted the relationship, he admitted everything he just didn't want to pay for it with his own money.

then he tries, after getting caught, he somehow wants to say, well, they're picking on me. that's not the case. you know, you threw your own lawyer under the bus, so now, all of a sudden, you are not pure as the driven snow. so my colleagues are clearly out of line. you know, some of these people were the ones who were hollering at hillary clinton, lock her up. now, somehow, they're now saying that trump is a victim well, you can't have it both ways you want to lock the democrats up, but you want to free the republicans. >> i wonder if, you know, in combination with that, you have fox news going ballistic and making it sound like this is some sort of war against republicans or a war against trump's supporters that's getting to some dangerous

territory. you just chaired a committee that talked about the insurrection against our capitol. that dangerous combination where you do have trump's media friends working on trying to whip up his base outside from tv, and then you have these republicans who are literally weaponizing the government against a prosecutor are you concerned that they are trying to cook up another sort of january 6th style situation >> well, the potential for a january 6th style situation exists when you talk about breaking windows, hitting policemen, coming obviously on tuesday do whatever is to be done, there are some real sick people out here who are easily persuaded to do bad things. and you would expect members of congress to be more responsible in what they say but you know, lately, my colleagues have embarrassed a

lot of us in what they say we can disagree. debate is healthy. but at some point, you have to draw the line. and what my colleagues are doing now is absolutely way across the line can you imagine telling our children, look, i want you to watch what's happening the next two, three days because this is this great country of ours, because i want you to grow up to be just like them. that's not who we are. and i hope my colleagues will have a change of heart and let the separation of power in our government work. and so without that separation, look, i have never known our congress to get involved in a local situation. it's the district attorney he's doing his job

>> exactly >> it's a citizen grand jury who heard all this testimony, and they have returned what we believe to be a series of indictments. but we don't know. this is our system of jurisprudence in america so all of a sudden because your guy is somehow on the receiving end of it, you know, they're upset. >> well, congressman, we do have to run, but i did want to take that opportunity to wish your state, your home state, the state of mississippi, well i know the delta is really suffering right now after those tornadoes. i want to have you back on to talk about that as well. congressman, thank you so much for being here much appreciated and still ahead, how trump's indictment in manhattan of all places is serving up a double dosef humiliation and karmic retrib retribution. that's next. recommending things that i know work.

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. this is by far the most humiliating indictment because he's going to be booked and charged in new york. for him to have to come to manhattan on the same island that he felt he was looked down upon by the elite in new york and be booked and confirm what all of them said about him is more humiliating that if he's indicted on more serious charges in other places. >> that was reverend al sharpton with me last night he also noted that there is some

irony to the fact that trump will likely have to surrender himself in the same manhattan courthouse where the five 14 and 15-year-olds known as the central park five were wrongfully convicted more than 30 years ago you'll recall trump took a special interest in the now exonerated five. black and latino teenagers who were falsely accused of the 1989 rape of a white jogger he even took out a full-page ad in "the new york times" calling for the state to adopt the death penalty and use it on the teens. something that to this day he still has not apologized for last night, one of those five men, who mind you, experienced the worst that the criminal justice system has to offer, had a one word response to news of trump's indictment, karma. joining me now >> maya wiley, i'm going t start with you because it is ironic, not just the location where of where he will have to surrender, give the central park five in the

location of where they wen through, but the fact that don trump is going to experience the best of the criminal justice system he's got to be treated wit deference, as he's a forme president, which michael cohen pointed out. -- he's would have the secret service clear out the place an make sure he's not humiliated. we don't even know if he's gonna have a mugshot that is going to be released he's getting the ultimate iron because he's never been treate like a regular season season - >> never been treated like a regular citizen. he's not going to enjoy th treatment he's going to get. but you are absolutely right joy. listen, this is the man who ha attacked manhattan distric attorney alvin bragg, the firs black da for manhattan, who ra on an agenda that would say, w are not just going to thro black people on in jail on misdemeanors, because it has been one of the places where w have over incarcerated black people simply for being black, and donald trump has attacke him for that and yet donald trump is goin to get better treatment than

the same black people who -- >> you know, and david cay johnston, he's called da bragg an animal. he's done the anti-semitic trope of calling on the name o george soros and pretendin he's a puppet of the jewis financier, much like the 1950s racist used to do with civil rights workers he formally attacked a mexican judge who presided over a case judge kim curio, called him hater, saying he's not impartial because he's a mexican. and this current judge, who's little, no one martin martel mensch won - none of this feels coincidenta given who donald trump is. he's always played around with white supremacy has a game what do you expect him t deteriorate to as this cas goes forward he's >> going to do everything he can to stir up people wit his lies for example, this afternoon, george garros said i've neve met and never given a penny to alvin bragg. all of these things donald

trump does are fundamentally built on lies but we should be very concerned that the teno of the discussion, even in a piece today by peter baker, th superb new york times whit house correspondent, says, our democracy is threatened by prosecuting trump withou giving one word to the thought that, gee, maybe our democracy will be strengthened and reviv because we follow the idea o we are all equal under law >> it's wild because, maya wiley -- the whole job you are in right now in terms of civil and huma rights - the criminal justice system ha been, in many ways, the enem of black citizens, in saying that you are not equal, yo don't get treated the same the central park five -- they were questioned about their parents when they were minors you think of all the depredations, from lynching an on, and now you have the right including members of congress, and united states senators acting as if donald trump bein treated the same way michael cohen was treated for the same

crime is some sort of outrag against humanity, and trying t put him in a special categor where he alone is above th law. that, to me, is what damages our democracy, not holding him accountable. >> i think many americans -- most americans - would agree, absolutely, wit that, joy. and look, here's the other thing, misdemeanors -- one of the things we've hear is that this is not significan enough to subject a former president to prosecution it's like, well -- but this one was actually danger to our democracy becaus we think - we don't know what the allegations, indictment will be but we think it's about hi trying to put one over o people about who he was that they were going to be voting for in our democracy at th same time they are using the very tools of government i that case of these oversight committee witch hunt against alvin bragg, literally to sa it's a politicized process using the government t politicize the process, at the same time that they ar

claiming that a misdemeano he's to minor a potentia charge to go after trump for when he may in fact face felonies - but it's okay to go after blac people for nonviolent criminal offenses that a police officer just uses discretion to say, i'm just going to take you in, and then only 12% of those cases against people in ne york city for misdemeanors actually result in a conviction >> and they are literall screaming on the record that he's not out there arresting - finally some more black people to arrest. avid cay johnston, i asked michael cohen this i'll ask you as. well you know don trump. well you've been covering hi for. longtime there's a lot o provider coming out of his truth social pretend twitter machine. how do you think he really feels tonight? >> donald is absolutel terrified tonight and having a great deal of troubl processing this. this is a man who's beaten for grandeur, he's numerou criminal investigations, spent ten years in tangled up to his eyeballs with a cocain trafficker for whom he did extraordinary favors that make no sense as a business matter.

and in addition to all that, this afternoon, i posted my ne piece at d.c. report you should see how many people actually showed up at his waco rally. >> and i'm going to guess it's -- >> i promise you, in the break if you look, you are going t be stunned, joy. >> pour donald he can't even get a whole bunc of people at his rallies well, we will see -- $4 million so far -- and if any of those lawyer think they are going to ge that money they should talk to his previous lawyers david cay johnston and may wiley, thank you both very much we will be right back you're all set. so your home is safe and smart. we're gunna miss you. you can check in on your home. arm the system, we should go. manage your system from virtually anywhere. (thump) (scream) and get intelligent alerts, like when a package has arrived. - bye. have a good night. -boo! when the most trusted name in home security adds the intelligence of google, you have a home with no worries. brought to you by adt.

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i'm your overly competitive brother. check. psych! really? dude, that's a foul! and now you're ready to settle the score. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, well you could end up paying for all this yourself. so get allstate. i screwed up. well you could end up paying for all this yourself. mhm. i got us t-mobile home internet. now cell phone users have priority over us. and your marriage survived that? you can almost feel the drag when people walk by with their phones. oh i can't hear you... you're froze-- ladies, please! you put it on airplane mode when you pass our house. i was trying to work. we're workin' it too. yeah! work it girl! woo! i want to hear you say it out loud. well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles. that's why i do what i do. >> and that is tonight's that and the paycheck.

reidout. yusef salaam, one of the exonerated central park five joins chris hayes next then stick around for a specia edition of the rachel maddow show at 9 pm eastern, followed at ten by lawrence o'donnell all in with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on all in - >> initially was shocked he decided w