i am a victim of one of the great political smear campaigns in the history of our country. the entire thing has been a witch hunt, and there's no collusion. if there were lawyers they'd be disbarred for what they're doing. it's a one-sided witch hunt, and i am a victim, i will tell you i'm a victim oh, they're after me for so many things oh, those prosecutors. >> for years donald trump has complained about potential legal problems now it's a reality for the former president we have a lot to get to this morning on the historic indictment by the manhattan grand jury plus, we'll have reactions from top republicans including former vice president mike pence. and also ahead, a look at the security measures being put in place across new york city as authorities prepare for possible protests ahead of trump's

arraignment. good morning, and welcome to "way too early" on this friday, march 31st, i'm jonathan lemire. thanks for starting your day with us, and we will begin this friday with a moment for the history books. the first ever criminal indictment of a former president of the united states in new york city yesterday a grand jury convened by the manhattan district attorney's office took the unprecedented step and vote today charge donald j. trump. because the indictment is under seal for now, the exact charges are unknown. what we do know they center around a $130,000 payment that trump allegedly made to adult film star stormy daniels just days before the 2016 election to keep her silent about an affair she claimed the two had a decade earlier. according to the star witness in the case, trump's own former lawyer and fixer, michael cohen, the trump organization tried to cover up the payment falsely

claiming it was a legal expense. shortly after "the new york times" broke the story yesterday evening, the manhattan d.a.'s office confirmed the indictment writing in a statement it had, quote, contacted mr. trump's attorney to coordinate his surrender. trump for his part wasted little time before railing against the, quote, thugs and radical left monsters who indicted him. in a longer statement after that on truth social trump also decried the political persecution and election interference at the highest level in history and just a few hours ago at 2:46 a.m. trump simply posted "where's hunter," once again trying to divert attention away from him and to the son of president joe biden. joining us now live from palm beach, florida, not far from trump's mar-a-lago estate is nbc news correspondent sam brock sam, good morning. it's early, but the president --

we know the former president was up at least a couple hours ago are we seeing any activity around his home this morning, and any sense as to when he'll surrender to authorities in new york city? >> reporter: jonathan, good morning. it is eerily quiet right now you'll see some shimmering lights around my left shoulder that is mar-a-lago on west palm beach's side, that will take you out to palm beach. and there's a bridge out there, jonathan when i was out there about 9:00, 10:00 last night you'd see police officers in different stages perhaps as deterrent, perhaps to make sure things stay peaceful what kind of protest or reaction would we see here? especially in light of the fact only a week and a half ago when the form president was broadcasting what he said was an impending indictment and that didn't happen, we saw a couple dozen people out on that bridge protesting, that's it. as far as last night and the scene this morning as you

suggest what you're looking at your screen right now, probably about a dozen, 15, maybe 20 people throughout the night driving their cars back and forth over the bridge, they had flags, music, they were protesting, some degree of anger but nothing that got out of hand compare that to what happened back in august when there was a search and seizure of documents at mar-a-lago, and thonthen, almost intstantaneously you saw massive outcry of people i was also curious to see what the level of discernment would be to those out here or was it really just a persecution in their words of president trump. some people i talked to said this is essentially part of a lrjer narrative and because president trump is running for

re-election this is anintention effort to derail his efforts you've already had federal prosecutors look at this and alvin bragg look at the case and not bring charges. why now and what's the connection there do they even have jurisdiction to pursue federal charges for what could be a state misdemeanor? so some understanding of the technical nuances, but the last point i'll make right now you asked where do things stand and according to alvin bragg's office, he's going to be surrendering early next week peacefully he'll fly out of here probably through palm beach airport and end up in new york yet the governor of this state ron desantis came out with very forceful language overnight saying he's not insist extradition from florida should it come to that. no one is talking about extradition. the expectation at this point it

seems authorize going to be peaceful transfer of the former president from florida to new york over the next week. >> we'll have a lot more on that later in show. nbc's sam brock live for us in west palm beach, florida, thank you so much. let's bring in u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor barbaramark quade. good morning we just heard from sam we'll start with this idea of a surrender. we think it'll be early next week, monday, tuesday seems to be the earliest. walk us through how that will play out, that historic moment >> what seems likely, jonathan, is that an inagreement will be worked out between trump's lawyers and the manhattan d. a. there will be no arrest. donald trump and his lawyer will show up along with a secret service agent or two at the courthouse where he'll surrender is the term. he'll be fingerprinted

he'll have his mug shot taken, and then he'll appear in court for an arraignment the judge will make sure he has a copy of the document he'll be given an opportunity if he chooses to have it read openly in court. he'll be apprised of the possible penalties and then there will be some decision made as to whether he'll be released on bail. i imagine in a case like this where there's no risk of flight that donald trump will be released on his own recognizance and then told to appear in court for any upcoming dates, trials, motions, and other things that will be scheduled. >> one of the lessons it's really hard to know exactly what a grand jury is doing in a moment we knew the grand jury was meeting. trump in that post predicted an rest was imminent, that wasn't quite correct, and then a suggestion the grand jury was going to pause there was some reporting it was going to take about a month off, and suddenly yesterday here we

go a day after we should note trump posted on social media he had newfound respect for the grand jury, and 24 hours later they delivered this indictment. i know this is speculation what do you think about how this process played out, these twists and turns and how we ended up here >> well, i think one thing is for sure and that is the grand jury and the prosecutors -- and i think donald trump whether deliberately or unintentionally laid out a narrative when he said he was going to be arrested last tuesday i don't know whether he thought that was the case or he was just trying to set expectations for the public knowing he wouldn't be so people would start talking about what's the delay, is there something wrong? there's certain amounts of evidence grand jurors want to receive. when robert costello, the lawyer testified at the request of donald trump, then it appeared it became necessary for a

rebuttal witness to come and testify. it appears that was david pecker, he did testify, and after that the jury was ready to review a proposed indictment and take the time he needed to deliberate and that's going to be a wild card as well and ultimately the grand jury made its own decision. >> it is a historic moment and we'll see it play out over the next few days in lower manhattan. former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade, thank you as always and i am certain we'll be speaking to you again very soon coming up here on "way too early" we'll of course continue to follow the latest on the indictment of former president donald trump plus we'll look at the newly released 911 calls that show the chaos and terror that unfolded during this week's mass shooting at a school in nashville and also ahead what we're learning about the detainment of an american journalist in russia and how the white house is responding we're going to be back with so much more. [ ominous music playing ]

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alvin bragg, first and more foes, should receive some acknowledgement on work they have done, but more important than that it's extremely important we let the process work out and people do still understand that there is a presumption of innocence in this country. >> that's donald trump's former lo lawyer, michael cohen, praising the grand jury indictment after he served as a key witness in the manhattan d.a.'s case. we're going to get back to that breaking news in just a moment, but first turn to a few other headlines this morning in nashville police have released # 11 calls showing the chaos and terror from inside the school as that deadly mass shooting unfolded on monday. nbc news correspondent katie

beck has more. >> reporter: monday morning in nashville unlike any other as calls began pouring in >> i think we have a shooter >> reporter: terrified teachers barricading students from the gunfire they could hear rooms away calls from school employees hiding in offices, in the gym, a teacher speaking to children in whispers afraid to be heard. on the other end of the line this team of five emergency dispatchers quickly declaring it mass shooting. >> this is a school shooting and be prepared to receive victims >> reporter: the calls quickly stacking up, dispatchers jumping from one call to the next, but aubrey stuck on one line for 35 minutes. it was a pastor hiding in a closet >> he was crying, praying with me, we can't lose kids >> reporter: george allen took a

call from a teacher tucked away with 17 students, alan urging her to stay calm and hidden. >> if you're frantic and i want help, and that's all you can say. >> 14 minutes to us seems like hours. >> the hard part for me is seeing the update two or three in the hallway, and we realized that it was real >> what's your name? >> reporter: lead pastor chad skrug rushed to the scene urged to stay away his daughter inside later identified as one of the six victims lost still for the dispatchers that heard gunfire and calls for help, the new reality hard to accept >> it's very hard to wrap your mind around as a human being how this could even happen >> our thanks to katie beck. we're also learning more this morning about the detainment and arrest of an american journalist

in russia. "the wall street journal" moscow correspondent evan gerschkovich has rotated time in and out of russia since the war in ukraine began a year ago the security service announced yesterday he's been detained on spying charges he'll be held in pretrial detention until late may until his case can be heard. russian media say gerschkovich maintained his innocent. the white house condemned the reporter's detention as well as russia's continued efforts to target american citizens within its borders. gerschkovich is the first journalist from an american outlet to be charged with espionage in russia since the cold war still ahead here on "way too early" we'll show you what mike pence had to say autbo trump's indictment and the concerns that supporters of the former president couldturn violent. we'll be right back. two pills relieve allergy headache pain?

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former vice president mike pence weighed in on the trump indictment during an interview with cnn last night. let's take a look. >> i think the unprecedented indictment of a former president of the united states on a campaign finance issue is an outrage. i think the american people are going to look at this, see it as one more example of the criminalization of politics in this country the message that this sends to the wider world is a terrible message about the american justice system, and i rule the manhattan d.a. would have thought better of it and put the interest of the nation first >> now that he's been indicted how worried are you about the potential for violence and you saw the potential for violence, real violence when you were there on january 6th. >> well, there's no excuse for that rhetoric on either side of this debate, and there's really

no reason to be calling for people to be protesting over it as well. look, i know -- i know president trump well, and i know president trump can take care of himself in the courtroom, and he ought to focus on that right now >> no one is above the law including former presidents, let me be clear on that point. and the american people know this, but in this case a controversy over campaign finance, i can't speak for the merits of this case at all, but i can speak to the issue emanating of a question of campaign finance should never have risen to the level to bring an unprecedented and historic prosecution -- >> trump had been treated differently than michael cohen who went to jail for doing this? >> michael cohen went to jail for lying to congress, but this is an issue about campaign finance, and it's tenuous at best >> florida governor ron desantis

also slamming in the indictment calling it un-american and a weaponization of the legal system desantis made the comments on twitter writing his state will not help extradite the former president, atting, quote the soros backed manhattan d.a. has consistently bent the law and downgrade felonies and now he's stretched the law to target political opponents. right now let's take a look at the weather for today and the weekend and meteorologist angie lassman is here for the forecast >> good morning, jonathan. and it's a busy one for us across the country especially the eastern half of the country for the next 48 hours where we have the potential for severe weather stretching from the midwest to the south heavy snow to parts of the upper midwest, also heavy rain and thunderstorms near chicago, cincinnati and that's going to be the story through the day today. we'll have that risk for a really potent cold front popping up some of these violent thunderstorms and we'll watch

potentially bring impacts such as tornados, hail, gusty winds, and heavy rain by the time we get into tomorrow atlanta and parts of the northeast seeing some of that heavy wind heavy wind, strong rains but pay attention to this area if you, your family, anyone lives in these areas especially where you see the reds and orange, that's where we'll see the better chance for strong and even severe storms to develop today. and one of the biggest things we're watching for is the tornados that develop the long track and they could last into the evening hours. we know those nocturneal tornados it goes all the way down to the mississippi valley and it does continue east leaving us dealing with this into the evening hours as well. that's the severe threat we also have the heavy rain we'll work through, and this area basically across the

southeast has already been super saturated. the soil is already saturated and won't take much to see flooding concerns especially with swollen streams as well we also have the winter aspect of this system and i showed you that snow stretching into minneapolis and south dakota we have the wind alerts. that means blizzard conditions are going to be possible for some into minneapolis and stretching into the dakotas. we could see another foot of snow april right around the corner but sure doesn't feel like it for the northern tier of the country. >> certainly not and we'll keep an eye on those tornado warnings president biden heading to mississippi today to inspect the storm damage still ahead here, we're going to take loa ok at top lawmakers from both sides of the aisle are reacting to the indictment of former president trump. we'll be back in just a moment r. fasenra is an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma. having too many eosinophils, a type of white blood cell, can cause inflammation and asthma symptoms. fasenra is designed to target and remove eosinophils

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welcome back to "way too early. it's just ahead of 5:30 a.m. on the east coast, 2:30 a.m. out west we're on the bralkineaking news coverage of former president donald trump many of them have been posting about it on social media house peeker kevin mccarthy writes manhattan d.a. alvin bragg has irreparably damage our country in an attempt to interfere in our election. house majority leader steve scalise had essentially the same message calling the indictment, quote, one of the clearest examples of extremist democrats weaponizing government to attack their political opponents. here's a little more

iowa congressman jim jordan called the indictment outrageous meanwhile senator lindsey graham of south carolina was on fox news last night begging people to give money to the former president. >> they're trying to destroy donald trump because they fear him at the ballot box. to the conservatives out there make sure you vote if you've got friends, make sure they vote. if you don't have any friends, go make some friends but you need to help this man, donald j. trump. they're trying to drain him dry. he spent more money on lawyers than most people spend on campaigns. they're trying to bleed him dry. donaldjtrump.com go tonight, give the president some money to fight this [ bleep ]. >> thanks, senator graham. the white house says it's not expecting to comment on the trump indictment, but aides tell me they're not unhappy with the split screen expect president biden to be focused on policy events,

reaching out to communities. he's headed to mississippi to inspect tornado damage they think this could help trump in the republican primary. they don't think it'll help in the general election while the white house is holding its tongue, other kms are weighing in. nancy pelosi tweeted no one is above the law. chuck schumer issued a statement writing in part this, mr. trump is subject to the same law as every american i encourage mr. trump and his supporters to let the process proceed peacefully and according to law also california congressman adam schiff who was one of the lawyers who led the first impeachment told rachel maddow last night the indictment marks a sad and sobering day >> it is worrying to see once again donald trump engaged in inciting his supporters, essentially threatening death and destruction if he were indicted as he has now been. and it demonstrates i think the

continuing perils of the country. it would be more perilous if we didn't observe the rule of law >> joining us now national political correspondent for politico meredith mcgraw good morning, meredith great to see you again this of course is historic because it's an indictment of a former president but also indictment of a current presidential candidate, and the favorite right now in most people's minds to be the republican nominee next year so walk us through how this indictment could impact trump's presidential campaign both in terms of logistics but also momentum and support >> i think in the long-term it's still very unclear how this will play out and how this could ultimately affect the 2024 election, but what we've seen just overnight is how trump's campaign and the people around him have tried to rally supporters they've made fund-raising appeals. the former president has called this election interference and a

personal -- political persecution, and they've really been able to sort of rally supporters around the indictment if you will. there's been a deluge of statements that you noted from republican leaders who have come to his defense but like i said it's very unclear where this could go. this is uncharted waters in a lot of ways, but for now trump is going to try to use this to his political advantage as he has over the years with all of these investigations >> we know he raised a lot of money with truth social about that tuesday arrest which didn't come to be we know he's supposed to be at innra convention in a couple of weeks. as we just talked about there are a number of republicans rushing to take trump's side including some of his potential rivals on the campaign trail, desantis, pence, others. so talk to us about that

dynamic. are there some people in trump's orbit or other republicans who note, hey, this is a way to deflect a lot of potential criticism from the former president for those trying to unseat him >> we even saw last night florida governor ron desantis he didn't say trump's name but did say he wouldn't participate in any extradition from the former president from his home down in florida as to the manhattan district attorney's office for his arraignment, although trump's attorneys have said that he would be cooperative, but after trump sent that tweet the other week that really cut off media frenzy, a lot of speculation about when he may or may not be indicted, trump seemed to over a week ago he went after desantis and that was in part because of his initial

reaction to trump's truth social post about speculation that he might be arrested. and of course last night as you showed pence was on cnn for an interview where he echoed some of the same criticisms of this particular investigation and how it will play out so i know that trump's team is taking tabs and watching carefully to see how other 2024 candidates weigh in, but, you know, this has sucked up a lot of oxygen from the republican primary, and i imagine it will do so for a long time now. >> meredith, lastly i know you're in constant communication with the trump campaign, those in the former president's orbit. do we have a sense how the next couple of days will play out,

other than incessant truth social posts are we going to hear from him, see him >> there's been reports about next tuesday for his potential surrender, and trump's team is really expecting a media circus around all of this that they think could play to his advantage. you know, for as much i'm sure they've walked him through what could potentially happen over the next few days, there's still a lot that needs to be hammered out. he is a former president he's a presidential nominee. he has the protection of secret service. and so that brings into it a lot of questions about how this will go down. >> we should note new york state does not by rote release mug shots. they do leak from time to time i certainly wouldn't be surprised to see trump try to fund raise off of his. meredith mcgraw, thanks for joining us this morning. still ahead we're going to go live to cnbc for an early look what's driving markets this morning as investors look to closeout another week on wall

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welcome back time now for business, and for that let's bring in cnbc's arable gumede. how's the market shaping up and what are economists predicting >> yeah, so, john, good morning to you happy friday indeed. 0.4% is the projection on a month on month basis and they're on 4.5%. that becomes the core pce inflation numbers and hope fal that is declining and heading in the right direction. it does bode well for the fed as that's a key measure for them, right. personal consumption does mean things are being spent in a different way, and that will help them kind of set the tone and set the trend. it is the last trading day as well for the week, the month, as well as the quarter and of

course financial services seems to be the one investors ran away from this month and this quarter, too, as well as sail convalley bank and all happening in the banking sector. >> the u.s. economy grew at a slower pace in the fourth quarter than initially estimated as consumer spending continues to slow down a bit what's the sense as to what this could mean for the fed's future interest rate hikes? >> yeah, so perhaps they will consider -- you know, they'll take a look at this and realize perhaps the interest rate increases are now beginning to have some sort of impact and effect the initial estimate for this inflation figure is really about 2.9% that drifted off to about 2.7% we spoke about personal consumption, consumer

consumption dropping off quite a lot. that drop off to 1.4%, and now the final revision for that figure is actually 1%, so big drop off there means that consumers aren't spending as much as they have in the past and those interest rates are beginning to take effect, perhaps less interest rate hikes in the future. who knows, could even be a pause from here on in. >> we'll certainly be watching that in the weeks ahead. thank you. have a good weekend, sir still ahead law enforcement officials are preparing for potential protests in the wake of donald trump's indictment we'll have the latest on the security plans in new york and washington, d.c. that'll be next here on "way too early. in a clinical study, once-daily rybelsus® significantly lowered a1c better than a leading branded pill. in the same study, people taking rybelsus® lost more weight. rybelsus® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't take rybelsus® if you or your family

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[ ominous music playing ] [ engines revving ] in one spray, get instant shinehere we go!ness. ♪ ♪ welcome back law enforcement is preparing for potential protests in the wake of the indictment of former president trump. the new york city police department issued a memo yesterday requiring all officers to be prepared for deployment in

the case of, quote, unusual disorder washington, d.c. police say they are not aware of any, quote, first amendment activities planned, but they will continue to monitor in a social media post nearly two weeks ago trump called for mass protests by his supporters after claiming he would be arrested in a manner of days sparking fears of a riot similar to january 6th he'll turn himself into authorities in new york city early next week. joining us now executive editor for new york.com you've been focusing on the judge in the eventual trump trial. we don't know when that trial will take place and there'll be a lot of stall tactics but what kind of judge do you see this judge requiring >> someone who can control their courtroom and someone who can, frankly, control donald trump. you know, all this is so unprecedented but there is a past case to look at and that was the prosecution of roger stone, the trump associate known

for his dirty tricks and worked for richard nixon years ago. so what happens when trump is arraigned is that he'll get bail and essentially the judge overseeing the case, that's an agreement where trump will abide by the judge's rules and stay out of jail and, you know, be tried. and i want it to be a fair and calm trial what roger stone did in the same situation he at one point posted a picture of the judge in his case, a federal judge, a picture of her with a target beside her face so the judge had to act, so she placed a partial gag order on raumger stone and blocked him from posting anything on social media. so if trump is threatening jurors, if he's threatening the judge in the case psh if he's trying to intimidate those jurors, the judge will have to act. in an extreme step if trump defies the court order would be to actually jail him i want to again emphasize this is an opportunity for trump. i think we've talked about it

before if he stays calm, you know, he could be acquitted who knows. it's not the strongest case, but if he incites violence it will hurt him politically, so it's a big test for donald trump. can he calm down, trust the system, or will he incite violence >> well, he's never done that before so we'll see how that goes yes, it trump were taken off social media that would be a huge blow. and certainly if he weren't able to travel that would make 2024 very difficult as well you mentioned potential threats. we know already some think that a criminal charge should be applied here for that posting he did with alvin bragg and the han hatten d.a. where trump posted holding a picture of a baseball bat with him >> this is what's so unprecedented and difficult about this is that he is a candidate for president, and maybe that's he shouldn't get

any special treatment but the prosecutors in the case and the judge will be hesitant to try to silence him. it's this battling the rights to first amendment, to free speech, you know, versus a fair trial. i think there's easy -- there's a way to have a middle ground here if donald trump wants to testify in his defense, he can so i hope it doesn't get that extreme, but that's -- you know, the judge has to have a safe courtroom. jurors have to feel safe to come to the verdict they feel is fair >> i want to ask you in just a moment about the american journalist who's being held in russia but very briefly last on this, you don't think this is the strongest case >> i don't it's going to be -- i'm sorry, it's going to be michael cohen's word, the former trump fixer, you know, who made these payments to stormy daniels against trump's. and the key question we need to see is the indictment here what is the felony charge? falsifying business records with trump lying about why he was paying back michael cohen is a misdemeanor, and yet this is an indictment about a felony.

there are two dozen charges. there could be new evidence, so i think we should wait and see what's in indictment it's a kind of he said, she said between michael cohen and donald trump. >> we've talked about on the show about the arrest of an american journalist in russia. you have a unique perspective about this because you were held by the taliban for many months give us your sense where you think this leads up to and what kind of experience this reporter may be going through >> so i think putin is trying to silence reporting in russia. he's also trying to have bargaining chips against the united states. there's two other americans. paul whalen has been held for four years mark amphibolme is an american , had a small amount of medical marijuana and has been in prison over a year. evan is now a bargaining chip. i think he is worried. he faces a very, very long sentence in my time, i felt terrible for my family.

his family now is in this excruciating position, trying to pressure president biden to get evan out they really don't have that power, though. it's just a sad situation. it's sad for russians. it's so sad, what vladimir putin has done to russia he's acting in such an autocratic way to silence any free reporting in russia >> white house swift to condemn, obviously, this arrest yesterday. executive editor of the new yorker.com, david rohde. thank you for being with us. up next, how donald trump is trying to cash in on his indictment already. coming up on "morning joe," the latest on yesterday's vote by a manhattan grand jury. what could be next for the former president. trump, the first ex-president to be facing criminal charges we'll get context from a trio of presidential historians about the nature of the unprecedented indictment. also ahead, congressman dan goldman knows a thing or two about instveigating donald trump. the former prosecutor who served

as counsel in both of trump's impeachments will join the conversation an important "morning joe" a few moments away it's where businesses meet great remote talent and remote talent meets great opportunity. ♪♪ ♪ this is how we work now ♪ family is just very important. she's my sister and, we depend on each other a lot. she's the rock of the family. she's the person who holds everything together. ♪♪ it's a battle, you know i'm going to be there. keytruda and chemotherapy meant treating my cancer with two different types of medicine. in a clinical trial, keytruda and chemotherapy was proven to help people live longer than chemotherapy alone. keytruda is used to treat more patients with advanced lung cancer than any other immunotherapy.

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welcome back donald trump reacted quickly to his indictment yesterday by, how else, trying to raise money off it sw just 25 minutes after proclaiming his innocence, he fired off fundraising emails, offering a t-shirt that claims, "i stand with trump. of course, that'll take you a donation to acquire. it's not just the former president trying to make a buck off the indictment other politicians and political action groups from both parties are now making similar fundraising appeals. look out for trump mug shot apparel, coming soon to the maga store near you joining us now, communications strategist and former aide to house speakers, brendan buckner. this is a moment for history and also our political present, and it is going to shape the coming come pain. how do you see this playing out in the gop primary field >> yeah, it's hard to look at this and not think it helps

donald trump i acknowledge how bizarre that sounds usually, an indictment is tehe end of someone's political career the rallying effect we've seen overnight is significant i only expect that to continue republican voters love a fighter, and we can be confident that donald trump is going to be fighting we know that who your enemies are matters a lot in republican politics that works well here look, donald trump is the victim in this scenario, in the republican side. that's just where he likes to be perhaps, more than anything, he's going to be the center of attention for months to come i think that attention and media attention is the most valuable thing these days he'll starve his competitors of any attention. the way we're headed, this is probably going to make him winning the nomination much, much easier. general election is another thing. for the primary, he is in pretty good shape. >> certainly, trump has an incredible knack of gaining that media attention.

we saw it in 2015, 2016, throughout his presidency and now. we've seen polls, and his lead over opponents, especially desantis, is growing in fox news, he doubled from 15 to 30 over the last couple esany have to be seen as supporting trump, but then they can't really attack him either. >> they're stuck in quick sand they have to not only defend him, they have to attack the d.a. in manhattan, which, again, reinforces that donald trump has the right enemies. they're coming after him everyone has to rally to him there is not a good answer for a lot of these people, especially when they're so far behind even a ron desantis is pretty far behind mike pence, nikki haley, you need to do something dramatic. when donald trump has all the eyes, all the attention, when you're on his side, it is hard

to differentiate yourself and knock him off. >> let's say you were an adviser to a desantis or pence, and you look at the polls, you see you're way down. you need to do something different. if you were to take a different tact, you know, you can attack the liberal d.a. if you want, in your words, but if you were able to sharpen criticism at trump, how would you do that? >> i think you have to focus on whether or not he's going to be able to win a general election that puts -- you know, you're asking a lot of primary voters, to care about electability this perhaps could be the first of several indictments at some point, you have to question whether this is a person that can take on joe biden and win. that is the most important thing. that's no slam dunk, but perhaps his inability to win a general election might be his biggest vulnerability. >> you mentioned the possibility of other indictments we just had a conversation about it a moment ago.

this case in manhattan is seen as the least serious of those looming and could be a political benefit to trump, at least in the gop field. do we think one of the others could be more damaging to him? >> i think it's beneficial to donald trump that this is the first one. he gets to set the tone. i think, probably, the narrative will carry through, that this is just, again, people coming after him. i do think, at some point, there is the potential that it's just too much there's too much baggage there's too much around his neck you have to wonder whether this is a person who can get through a general election but, you know, i hesitate to say anything is enough to stop him in a primary i imagine that if the special counsel comes down, he will make the argument that doj is coming after him. it's well-trotted ground for him. it may be the accumulation of charges, but i don't think any one of these things will have a really different, immediate reaction from republican voters and elected officials. >> lastly, president biden gave no statement yesterday after the indictment we shouldn't be surprised by

this white house aides tell me that's their strategy, saying nothing at all look, of course, if there were suddenly trump inciting violence, if there was unrest, yes, we'd hear from the white house condemning that. otherwise, they're going to keep out of this, stay out of the fray, not be accused of trying to put their thumb on the scale. they think, as you noted, this can only hurt trump in a general election this would turn off independent and swing voters. >> yeah, i understand it it's not without risk. i moean, they seem content to le donald trump be the nominee. that was familiar to what hillary clinton thought. look, joe biden almost lost the last election. it's no small thing to let donald trump just breeze into the nomination, but i understand why they want to rise above it for the moment. >> you are right they both think trump will be the nominee. i think they also hope trump will be the nominee. they like that matchup brandon buck, thank you so much for this morning we really appreciate it. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this historic friday rng.