mary trump gets tonight's last word, msnbc live breaking news coverage of the indictment o donald trump continues right now with ali velshi.

this is msnbc's continuing coverage of the indictment o former president donald j trump, time elevation you york, after becoming the first president i u.s. history to be impeached twice, donald trump has made history yet again, becoming th only ex president to face criminal indictment. on thursday, a grand jury vote to indict the former president as part of manhattan distric attorney alvin weiss investigation into a hush mone payment made to and at fil star stormy daniels, in 2016 that indictment is currently sealed that means we don't know the specific charges being levie against donald trump but we do know that bag ha been focusing on a felon charge, of falsifying business records, which carries a maximum sentence of four years it means that he's formerl charged with a crime but there are still severa steps --

in the coming days, the ex president is expected to surrender himself to authorities, after which h will be taken into custody like any other person charge with the, crime he will then likely have his mugshot an fingerprints taken, however, unlike an ordinary citizen, he will do so accompanied it ever step by the secret service they've been coordinating with authorities in new york, wit the unique circumstances o protectee of the secret service, facing legal action. after that process, trump will be arraigned in court, where h will hear the charges, and h will enter a plea. when the attorney said the expected arraignment i suspected to take place on tuesday. -- we will likely be released o his own right though recognizance from there could take months for a child can miss let's go to msnbc corresponden on hillyard.

-- not far from where donald trum is staying at his mar-a-lago residents. good to see you both, on, let' start with you and everythin that's happened over the pas few hours. >> over the last few hours there is anticipation of the grand jury convening here agai today, then traditionall meeting monday's wednesday thursday's, but there were som reports yesterday, and we ma be having to wait a mont before alvin bragg were to convene, for the purposes of voting, this afternoon was different, and our jonatha deeds from wnbc, reported that there is increased security, and ypg was called to be prepared for potentially wha was to come. ultimately, just before 5 pm that is when the grand jur voted to indict donald trump >> they voted to indict now an indictment has to be filed

and the discussion is what t do about donald, trump in term of actually getting him throug that process i just describe are underway >> at this point trump's attorneys were notified by the district attorney's office and that's when the arrangements begin in terms of when donal trump actually come here to ou understanding or conversations about this upcoming tuesda been the point in which he would come down to lower manhattan there's a colone court building that is right next door to the distric attorney's office just lik anybody else who would have to come in for arraignment of course secret services a interesting component and they said they will remain with donald trump every step of the way the intention is to keep him out of the public eye as much as possible for understandable securit purposes will donald trump hav to be handcuffed typically tha is the case here but all o this is plano because this i unprecedented. >> and sometimes, somebody who's arrested who surrendered themselves spends all night in

jail that's not likely t happen will range to hav someone to hear his plea fairl immediately so this will be matter of a few hours. yes very brief and the other part about this is actuall seeing the charges filed against donald trump none of us have access to that right now. the indictment is presentl sealed there is the chance that the judge if they're looking t bring it forward that make i public to not only trump's attorneys but also assess th public to see exactly what h is charged with. there is a chance that we woul not see this if use rain o tuesday until donald trump wer to be here in lower manhatta and at his actual arraignment. as rideout live on the spo donald trump >> i'm gonna go to gary in a second in florida donald trump would likely be coming her from florida want desantis wen out of his way today to sa he's not gonna cooperate wit

any extradition effort by ne york is there an extradition effort is there some discussion tha donald trump might not come in willingly. >> let's be explicit donal trump has not suggested that h will fight this his attorney have said that he will cooperate. it is notable iran desantis is saying that though because if donald trump as i'v been told by sources did not want to be arrested he did not want to get indicted, has made the case that this i prosecutorial misconduct and he's been unfairly targeted bu if you were to hold up in hi compound income palm beach florida will be next typically requires a new york governor t be put out and go to the florida governor and that' where law enforcement has to sign off and i was in touch with a la enforcement agency down ther which told me they have no heard from new york la enforcement at this time which would suggest that newark la enforcement is not concerned a this hour but if ron desanti

is not willing to play bal that we're going down -- >> now is only surprised because i hadn't heard tha suggestion from anyone els except when rhonda scent sai it so ended without as. about just this whole thin about the jonathan dean smith. york police were told everybod shows up in uniform tomorrow for possible deployment. you know when they have an office job we were told to com in >> for obvious reasons her this is a manhattan district attorney who's been explicitly targeted by donald trump we know that people act on his commands act on his threats , and we've had conversations, there were folks in waco texas is raleigh and texas that it had choice with alvin bragg' face on it, he is a know entity, i was down in lowe manhattan earlier this evening you saw the shot their playoff alvin bragg was quickly whiske away into his motorcade, and left the scene there, there'

heightened attention around th district attorney's office which again is right next to the court building there o expected trump to come into th area >> he's becoming ver well-known, there's still a lo people who don't know him, and people who know him as prett much every statement i jus read, i've been looking at fro the house and senate republicans, calls him a lef wing radical soros funded, whatever the cases the country's gonna learn abou that >> someone who's elected by ne york voters. >> and again we don't even kno the charges he's brought against donald trump this hour let's go to gary gays an florida gary grumbach puttin aside this whole idea ther might be some issue and gettin donald trump from don ford t new york, suffered implication of iran desantis what's going on? >> so to america, donald trump is now indicted former president, but donald trum he's a victimized former president was make that very clear he's made that very clea

all day on truth social, through his campaign statement officially, through super back and more than a doze statements in the past fiv hours alone. i want to read one of them t you because it sounds ou safely what he's trying to say he said democrats have lied an cheated and stolen in thei obsession in trying to get trump. and now they've done i think-able, indicting completely innocent person, an an act of blatant in electio interference he really believes he's th victim here. for a moment that sa unprecedented in our history it's really remarkable thi playbook that he's going through right now, is so similar to what he's done time and time again, over the pas few years when he's gotten int either legal trouble, or wit impeachments as it relates t those congressional inquiries. because his supporters don't believe he's done anything wrong. and that brings me to th security aspect you guys wer talking about here we have a map to show you what tuesday is going to look lik at least here in the palm beac

west palm beach area mar-a-lag is in palm beach airport, palm beach international airport is in west palm beach some nine-minute drive fro mar-a-lago, to west palm beach to the airport, he'll take tha likely in a motorcade. we'll see him getting on his plane, held and fly to a new york area airport, where h will be met with either motorcade, or help perhaps eve sharper down to lower manhattan, where he will then be escorted in by both secret service an ypg the joint terrorism task force involved they've been meeting for mor than two weeks now, to pla this very crucial executing of his movements. and the secret views the rol as a helper here not volodymyr raman anyway not resting him by any means but they're sort of helping ou the nypd and the distric attorney's office making all that happen ali. >> you say the minutes for a while but they have been planning this with any

coordination within manhatta da's office. trump seemed to plant replie that he's gonna be arrested, n one seemed to know we got that information other than the factory was invited to testify to granary all this police coronation that's been going on in florida, has been or has not been tie to information from the da's office sounds like gary lost me gar grumbach for us in florida bonnie around we're talking al night basically, let's continu the conversation with vaughn lisa rubin - suzanne craig, an msnb contributor harry lippman, former u.s. attorney and forme deputy assistant attorne general during the clinton administration, welcome to all of you, lisa, they're pullin back the curtain a little bit, we talk every day when i wor on and you are the person wh tells us everything is going o

here every night this week you and i have talked about this this was an outside possibilit either the grand jury had vote or would vote, we ar concentrated on the fact the were going away for hiatus what we believe went down today. >> we know from some reporting that they came from the gran jury so they're asked to vot on the bill. we believe prosecutors came in we've seen by the new york times walking into, building one of the dog eared copy of the new york penal code with flags indicating who's gonna have to read to the jury portions of the new york loo criminal code that apply t donald trump's behavior, the were then asked to vote that true bill, the new york time is reporting that there ar more than two dozen charge here, that doesn't mean that trump has committed multiple crimes, it must mean, wher could mean that there ar multiple counts of the sam crime, and people like m believe that crime i falsification of busines

records in the first degree, that's when you falsify business record in order t conceal or commit another crim but that crime is is a thing that has people like m scratching our heads, all th way from new york to watch i and in between i know harr will have something to say about that as well we talk about hush money payments do w know whether the hush mone payments are involved in thi because we did see david pecke come in two times i believe, they testify before this grand jury he's mostly involved wit another set of hush mone payments, catching kills game. >> he's involved with both the really, because he was presented with the storm daniels situation, and h declined to pay directly as he did with caught him with the oval, and had dylan howard shu that to michael cohen, we ar right to say that hi involvement in the first one was higher, he's als personally involved in at leas two conversations with cohen i trump i believe, as you and have discussed, that's the reason he came back to rebut

bob costello, who sent came in to say this was cohen's doing, he wanted to impressin ingratiate himself to trump. david pecker is that person wh can rebuffed that. >> one's mind is boggled b that, is that someone would pa someone else's debt hoping the get reimbursed harry lippman, thank you for being with us. i was just reading what yo written which was published in the u.s. los angeles time an as i read the comments fro republican elected and take by something he said a trump' insistence will be put through as much stress as possible claiming it every term renewed proof of political vendett against him in his supporters. the idea beloved later pai through a whole of could have wooden election, seems to have falling abilities side of an republican criticism it seems to be a alvin bragg who they say some soros funded radical left wing socialis prosecutor, with an agenda

>> yes, has as the fact, they' be surprised when bragg an others, have resulted in charges that routinely over 10 times. would gary just laid out what' gonna happen on tuesday. an arraignment is a very sor of sleepy pedestrian event normally, but this i emblematic of the road we've just taken the step one on today, every singl pre-litigation maneuver, every choice of every juror is going to be not simply savaged b trump, but sort of funnele through the political system o an election and a sort o waiting base as ready to believe the worst of bragger the whole system so it's gonna be remarkable stress on th entire system, and you add t that the likelihood that thi will not be the only set o

charges that trump will be defending against, fulto county possibly jack smith it's a crazy situation they were firs starting in today, take 14 seconds to say is good we go to this point, but now, now, what's ahead >> suzanne craig i'm surrounde by friends, you are the oldest one, when i go back many years to another country, we are bot business reporters and there's no one who understands. -- we want to pulitzer prize fo the amazing reporting you did, a lot of what will happen, her comes down to how donald trump handled his legal affairs, i life, and his money in lif it's was talking about the fac that we don't know what thes charges are falsifying records but donald trump kept a -- and that is the set of a lot o investigations >> and a lot of cases sh

actually kept two sets of books, he's got into trouble for that this goes back with him years. i've been looking at his finances since he began runnin in 2015, and i've gone back to looking at everything back t his father, and the wealth inherited from his father, we've seen him go by the right of the line, or over the lin in the case of his father. i -- have actually text fiv sessions outside the statute o limitations, nothing's happened. this is a pattern that goe back years and now we're facing a incredible first indictment of former president, and we don't necessarily know a lot about what's coming, we're gonna fin out in a few days one of the things we are looking at these books and records and how this hush money payment was accounted for and michael cohe has written in his book, a

little bit about what he heard and allen weisselberg, the former chief financial officer who is currently sitting i rikers, he had talked abou should we run them money through the l.a. golf course she tried to sell a membership in mar-a-lago, to cover it, so these are the sort of things i'm imagining when we see it we're gonna see how do the count for it, that's where he' gonna get into trouble, i thin what we should be looking fo we don't know yet, usually whe you falsified business record, you do so because you want t get a tax deduction out of it, and then some of this will now spill over into tax fraud. >> your major of estimation to lead to stuff on that, the taxpayers of new york state, down out of things because the way donald trump, as you pointed out in your story, companies had traditionall done the stuff he was accuse of doing with respect to his property values versus insurance versus mortgages, bu does someone suffer for, it is not a victimless crime, so there's a question here abou whether taxpayers have som

sort of claim, it right on their, and the trump organization trial, it cam back with a guilty verdict against the trump organization in december, and had to pay fine, that was all about them, cheating the tax man, in tha case there were perks to allen weisselberg, and they weren' paying tax on that, that's called non-employe compensation, a car or a apartment and they're also doing things where they were paying their salaried employees, so people who are getting 20 twos, they're giving them on time bonuses to avoid payrol tax, so this stuff it's all of a piece, but you see everywher within the trump organization, it's remarkable just how the go right up to the line or ove the line all the time so the so the reason this is relevant is because if investigating th

falsification of records thi history may become relevant. >> this is stream absolutely may become relevant, because the way you turn falsification of business records into a felony, rather than misdemeanor, is because you're doing it can conceal or commit another crime, what is tha other crime? it could be tax fraud as suzanne laid out could be bank fraud, it could be some othe form or fraud, but in order fo you to be for example violation of election law. when new york law, one of th things that could be is conspiracy to try to promote trump's election, through an awful means, either way ther has to be a specific intent to defraud, specific audience, an who that audiences, or scratching our heads that, has to be a victim, it's not a victimless crime >> by the way, you are now again i've been talking al week about what's going on wit allen weisselberg, who's sentenced, he's at rikers, who seems to be some speculation

that there are more charge coming against him, he had two lawyers, paid for by the trump organization, who left his employ earlier this week, no he's got a different lawye also employed by the trump organization, what is alic allen weisselberg's whole role in this thing. >> he has information with the hush money scheme, he wa involved in what the thing you know what the important role would be he's also under curren investigation about some of th things that are laid out i tish james civil fraud that' about valuations as as suzanne just referred to are you defrauding ensures, ar you defrauding banks by either lowering, or inflating the value of certain assets to get bank loans or, insurance policies, weisselberg know he's under investigation for that the times times reporting on that, probably the new yor da's trying to leverage hi right now, cooperate with us -- >> or hang around records fo

little while >> or you can come out, rikers we'd have to be put you back in >> everybody skip stick around a bit, speaking with me throug the, hour don't forget this is just one of severa investigations that don trum is currently involved in coming up next we're gonna loo at what today's indictment could potentially mean, for th other cases.

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from the first current o former u.s. president to b indicted of a crime, the forme president's legal worrie extend much further than the manhattan da twice impeached former president is connected t several pending investigations including mishandlin classified documents, comes to overturn the 2020 election, an his part in the deadly january 6th capitol insurrection bac with me even here, lisa rubin, suzanne craig and let her live in her let me start with you because someone very prominent a series of investigations sen it message early to say, if yo want to see justice with donal trump's may not have been th case you wanted to see the start with >> was that for me >> sorry ali, look, people are saying that, i think the short answer, they're two quic answers to that. on people as you pointed out o an indicted for the same kinds of crime and second i actually

think leases made a really goo point, about potential conspiracy charges i think hackers but they're th end, not simply the power to stormy daniels, but kind o conspiratorial course of conduct from 2015, even into the white house when he' paying off checks but look how a way to look at is he is th first out of the box, that's significant, it's important to come to i think the time wil come, and pretty soon, whe he's juggling different charge fulminating us all of them, won't be a question of wha came first especially becaus both here and fulton county, the state charges are likely t have a lot of breach o litigation, so if i were betting, and say this first ou of the box, and fulton count also, will not be first of the finish line, so the whole kind of idea of what comes first or second is a little artificia

at this point. >> violence put up on th screen, a list of the othe investigations as the criminal probe of january 6th, the mar-a-lag classified documents it is the georgia fulton county 2020 election interference, the perfect phone call we are he about a heard about is this on that has 20 payments of stormy daniels and is the new state laetitia james civil lawsuit i the trump organization thi exam is talking about, and lis was talking about. what's your sense of how these all come together, because eve looking at the list the averag person knows it on shopper facing a lot of legal jeopardy but how does it all fi together >> or talk about conspiracy in this case here talking about potential racketeering charges in the fulton county case, for donald trump is also currently appealing this week, mar meadows and several other aide going before the special counsel, and department of justice. and you're talking about potential trevor trove, th burning fire of testimony, the federal prosecutors have yet

even here. mark meadows, is cassidy hutchinson who's the aide to mark meadows, testifie publicly, just last year tha mark meadows burnt documents i his white house office if he moved down to georgia we have the secretary of state' office he had conversations with rudy giuliani rudy giuliani goes down to georgia, every single one of these witnesses are connected, and what is so unique about in your case is it's separate fro those other investigations there is no mark meadows year, that's why despite whateve else happens despite whateve else anyone believes shoul happen in the federal fulton county case, this case i special and unique, because it spans beyond his own time in the present. >> tell me lisa, about thi testimony, the trump aides and the mike pence stuff separately both these groups have been ordered to testify in both cases everyone's appealing, saying they're no going to we sort of know most of th story, right we know from michael lutie wha

pence is up to, because we kno that pence's lawyer wa consulting with luttig about not having to do trust bidding on january 6th we know about mark meadows because of cassidy hutchinson. what's the difference now that these people might be compelle to sit down and under oath t that story that we probabl already know >> yes and we are number of instances where each of the people who'v been compelled to testify were in rooms along with donald trump, where they weren't over heard by the cassidy hutchinson's in the world. the conversation i think about from trump and pence, this morning of january 6th, we kno from greg jacob for exampl there when vice president penc was in his residence tha morning took a call from donal trump, trump side of that phon call we heard but practicall his entire family in the ova office, mike pence on the othe hand excuse himself, and never spoke about happened on th call, those are the things tha really important to get into the record if you jack smith

for trump to say to you what did you say back to him. >> suzanne craig, let's talk about where the new york state civil lawsuit into the field o things that you studied so wel and reported on so well, where how that fits into this jigsaw puzzle >> right and that is going t trial in october, it looks lik it's full speed ahead for it >> i have to say when we'r talking about all of these investigations he's facing they were all criminal, and fo the most part donald trump for his whole life his face civi consequences, and laetitia james's lawsuit is civil but i is very consequential to him, expect it will go to trial he's been trying to get delays if he goes against him, he could be facing a fine of abou $250 million, and donald trump has a lot of businesses around the country, and most of the lose money, he's not doing wel financially, and this coul

really hit him we've seen him, he sold the hotel that he owne in washington and lee. people don't usually see all the assets that they just came into the pasta and leave the hotel rooms when he complete before he became president president, and sold becaus made a lot of money, that' where he's, at $250 million ca really hurt him. >> harry, i want to just tal about something that donal trump said, put out a statemen today, which is actually relatively measured by natural standards, it doesn't seem t have been cited anyone to take to the streets tonight, but want to talk about the defense golfers, the thing he says, he says these thugs and radical left monsters have jus indicated the 45th president - >> i'll be honest with you, don't know how to write a dead most days anyway have and the leading republica candidate by fire for the 25th

nomination for president and then in all caps this is an attack about on our country. it's like why is it continuing a tack on a once free and fair elections. the usa is now a third world nation and nation in serious decline. so sad and all night on fox th banner has said third worl banana republic so this is wha we're running with here. >> interesting theoretically doesn't do anything for donald trump as defendant >> well he's doing an enormous roll the dice. the short answer is everything he says. all his histrionics not only d nothing for him. but would be suicidal if and when he took the stand on the other hand he's rolling it altogether into a political gamble and playing in almost kind o messianic terms it seems a play to his base but they're coming after you as well a

coming after me. it's all about us together now what does it mean for hi to win that fight? i guess it means that maybe he becomes president again. and then all bets are off? but legally like everythin trump does you know it's s nin and calculated to only bring terrible results and a court of law but he's in the court of publi opinion. that seems to be's overwhelmin strategy >> van i just want to touch on the messianic stuff because yo are in waco. the trump team has suggested a well located which is wh depicted but this was on the 30th anniversary of the things that went down to waco, it is messianic, he had said i'm retribution, i'm a justice he's laying out this idea that they are coming for you. they, i don't know who they is and i can protect you. >> and i'm the one tha standing in the way here for donald trump this is about

selling the pitch that this is an effort to undercut th movement here. this is not a prosecution abou trying to defraud the taxpayer over medicare taxes here that is two in the weeds here. and for donald trump this is about the conservative mag movement here that he ha helped construct let's be very clear, you see the response from villages int the usual response from one of mcdonald's, you see th response from kevin mccarthy it echoes exactly what we sa after the mar-a-lago searc warrant was executed in august exactly what we saw after th two impeachments of donald trump here and for the republican party they've lifted up donald trump time and time again, you go to iowa, chuck grassley chuck grassley is a senior statesman from the state o iowa and yet time and agai they defended him. when i was in iowa just a fe weeks ago when this was really the aid to percolate again

he's standing up there on stage, kim reynolds alongside on trum we're talking about republican party here, that is unwilling to separate itself despite whatever evidence come its way. >> there's nothing in all th statements aside tonight, ther is one from don bacon said let's see what comes out o this it's important to remember, this is not a trial yet, thi is an indictment, they still entire trial there's a trial in which donald trump is presumed innocent until proven guilty, that is important in the minds of a lot of people this is decided one wher another in the eyes of justice it is not. vaughn hillyard a stain rout sticking around for us thank you to her limit for you insight on this historic night still to come the course o trump's republican allies so we're just talking about comin to his defense somofe their acclaim in political persecution.

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donald trump's republica allies, filling the news of hi indictment senator lindsey graham like in the legal indictment, to quote legal voodoo >> yeah, well i don't have t do is legal in new york, but this is legal voodoo, they'v got a misdemeanor, that's been made a felony nobody in th

history of new york city, ha ever been prosecuted under thi theory, except for donald trump, this case will fold lik a cheap suit under, lega scrutiny the chief witness, michael cohen -- 's own lawyer calls an unreliable their bag >> now, amid the outrage, ther is at least one republican, wh held back from attacking the i that actual indictment or th prosecutor, and that was don bacon of nebraska. who wrote, i trust the system, we have a judge, we have jurors, there are appeals, so i thin in the end justice will be done, if he's guilty will show up, but if it if not, i'll be show to how mark we know it's, i'm joined by vaughn hillyard is been keeping me company al night and senior nationa politics reporter, jonatha jonathan allen, good to see yo saw on, there's an emails sent out moments after the news broke, about the manhattan grand jury's decision to indic the former president, it reads

as follows per for the start and the enemy of the hardworking men and women in this country, have indicted me in a disgusting witch hunt alvin bragg this soros funde district attorney behind the indictment, relied on th testimony a convicted felon, and disbarred lawyer the dee state will use anything at their disposal, to shut down the one political movement that puts you first, there's a lot there is an awful lot in there, the radical left, the foot soros funded district attorney, they convicted felon and despite lawyer, who is disbarred for doing things a part of his -- good mayor alice this. while there is a lot in ther that i look forward to clear m name which usually you might welcom at the end of an inc investigation, the opportunity to do that, when you see donal trump doing is attacking the prosecutor, spending most of

his time attacking the prosecutor, of course he say he's not guilty of any crimes, he says he didn't even have an affair with stormy to daniels, she might be irrelevant to the question of whether he committed any crimes, but he's absolutely pursue this ide that he's gonna be able to win by attacking the prosecutor. >> van i'm just looking for it here, representative ronny jackson here is the doctor i the white house he's a republican from texas in amongst all these responses, h writes president trump's onl crime is making america grea again, he's democrats a trum and his voters even more, when trump wins these people will pay you were in waco and you heard don trump talking abou retribution, there's a theme going tonight about revenge, retribution, we'll take it bac in and bad things are gonn happen >> they'll be disgraced, these

prosecutors, democrats, this i donald trump who look, his campaign is out of recess, the will not hire anybody who work for desantis, i was talkin with ali said that will try an translate to the trump administration here. because there isn't nobody hea from haley world, desantis worlds, i've talked to donal trump about firing a massive number of folks on the federal government right this idea across agencies that 90% o them are liberals right this i going to be on the prosecutors it is so deep in which donal trump wants to permeate this with allies and with loyalists and that means when we'r talking about district attorneys if i'm in the stat of new york is the governor wh can begin the process to remov district attorney's. if we leave zeldin, th republican running for governo of new york last november. >> a big trump ally. he lost by five percentage points to the democrat kathy

hochul in november, if he'd won, he could've begun the proces to remove district attorne alvin bragg. donald trump, there is a gam plan here, there are leaning o the fly in 2017, republicans were only slowly becoming, within the administration, h surrounded now, buying applaus team, by loyalists here, and i in fact rigged to get into the white house, again we ar talking about a justice system that could be shaped within hi view, in a way to try to undercut everybody who's comin against him in the past. >> and jonathan, this is the subject of michael cohen, th disgraced lawyer donald trum is talking about, as subject o a second book, it's called revenge, he makes the poin that they were as von said trying to do this on the fly i 2016, but that campaign bega with chance of lock her up, an what we're gonna do, hillary clinton was on stage saint it'

a good thing that someone like donald trump was involved in the law, and he said because you'd be in jail there's a sense that revenge and retribution, are at th core of the defense agains these charges me >> i think that's donald trump's ammo to your point, would however point out that the justice department did not prosecute donald john trump, prosecute her clinton hundre on trump, and in fact was that bomb administration, investigated hillary clinton during the 2016 campaign, so i think trump was weird about th obstacles of that when he' president united states, i think in the justice departmen they're worried about th optics of saint's politica enemies. right now he's promised in that, he says as you pointed out, he says to his crowds, that he' gonna be there justice that is gonna be there retribution what he's doing at the very least, is laying th

groundwork to do that if i wins the presidency again. >> he said that he wanted at that rally, it he regrette what they had attorney general said that he wanted harshe attorney generals here to driv his point, and there's video o the january 6th attack tha upper play behind him on stage why has donald trump continu to defend, the defendants of january six? because those are the ones tha have been allied with him. and everyone's allies down the road, he has to defend those that have come and defended hi in the past. >> mark, thank, you general, thank you very much, kono next we're gonna explore th historic implications of donal trump's indictment, right afte the break. (dr. aaron king) if you have diabetes, getting on dexcom is the single most important thing you can do.

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that i look for to the day that w never have to say that again we comes numbing after a while one historical implications of tonight, we're back with joh allen, because that's what i called him one time, jonatha alter, good to see you guys, thank you for being with us, you know the danger, jonatha alter, we're talking about historical times, an unprecedented stuff, tha actually is not entirely unprecedented, some presiden that former president is indicted, but lots o politicians do things that get

themselves indicted, and the justice system for donald trum should be no different than it is for anybody else, who is no the president united states, because the president does get a slightly different treatment into law, and everybody else does, shouldn't but does donald trump's an american citizen, he's just a perso charged with a crime today i >> right, and i'm from illinois, where four realize ten governors have gone to jail. and now we're into new jersey, which you don't need a explanation, so politicians ar always getting indicted. this is just a regular part of american public life, and in that sense it's no different it's also no different fro what goes on, in other countries, the president o brazil right now, lula, he's been in jail, a few years ago, silvio berlusconi, who threw have eluded you looser scandal and of course, in israel

netanyahu is under indictmen currently, so it's different about this is that in as a netanyahu's party in israel we have a part of our america political establishment mainly the republicans who are no accepting our criminal justice system as it is there rejectin the whole idea of the system and for desantis for instanc to say that he wouldn' extradite trump, in direct violation of the constitution, that really moves in a authoritarian direction so the big story here, is not the indictment itself it's the fac that one of our politica parties, insists on pre-judgin it without having read it, which is something no lawyer should ever do >> it's actually wild becaus the reaction, i've got pages and pages of these, reactions, tweets, and statements fro

house and senate republicans so same thing john allen, they say alvin bragg and it's unprecedented abuse of power to account, the speaker of the house of representatives without speaking to the merits of the case, we've not seen by the way, now of us have seen the indictment, we don't kno how many counts they are, we d not know what he's charged with, the other speaker the house, i announcing that the house of representatives will hold th elected in manhattan distric attorney alvin bragg, and it's unprecedented abuse of power to account, so to jonathan's point that's the unprecedented part, john allen >> we keep using the word, all of it is unprecedented a limitation for kevin mccarthy, which may give him the liberty to say that, is that he doesn' really have a lot of recours we if you want to take actio

against alvin bragg, he needed entire congress to do that democrats control the senate and even if you wanted to do that, i think the only rea recourse, would be to try to cut off some of the federa funds the through prayer programs, the state of new york, and down to the county level which is completely unrelate to this case so largely kevi mccarthy's blowing off sta steam, in trying to puff up hi chance for the republicans it's still from one branch o government to another one, i unusual unorthodox, and in thi case unprecedented >> jonna jonathan alter, there's a ton of these comment and tweets from republicans, let's speak about the george soros backed alvin bragg no soros has made his way into right-wing circles, identified as a globalist, on places like breitbart. they even took the wor globalist out, they just put a globe next to somebody's nam

for some go cobe code going on with soils linked. >> code, it's flat out any antisemitic douglass hills they've been doing this for wild soros viktor biden leader of hungry picked him out o hungry now or bans authoritaria acolytes in the united state had a cpac meeting in hungry they will pick this up for the oldest jewish antisemitic trop in the book the jurors are pulling the strings and this one it's pulling alvin bragg strings so to call alvin bragg an animal that's the line that trump used about it which is the oldest racial slur in huma history. dehumanizing people that you rejects, that's what course of the not seized it by calling jews vermin. meanwhile they're using th

other trope, puppet master lashes brothers down for just second you go all right soros he gave to brags campaign, so he's fai game, but actually soros gav to an organization, who then i turn gave to brags campaign, s all these republicans, who wan to be responsible for all th donors to the rnc, they got rn money, are they dancing on the end of the string of some whit supremacist to write a check to the rnc this is flat out racism an antisemitism, and in some ways as welcome as this indictmen is, it's marred by this bigotry. >> i'm glad you pointed al that out, because that's what' going on here, jonathan alter, always good to see you thank you for joining us as well jonathan allen, don't go anywhere, our breaking new coverage of the former president donald trump's indictment continues after a quick break.

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