>> we have some late breaking news tonight relating to the manhattan da's hush money investigation. cnn reports tonight that communications between stormy daniels and her lawyer, currently defending donald trump. those communications are now in the hands of the manhattan da. daniel side says the exchanges between daniels and current trump lawyer, joe tacopina dates back to 2018 when daniel approached tacopina about representing her. these communications raise the possibility the tacopina could be sidelined, for now, in turn from defending trump. tacopina denies that there is a conflict of interest and says he neither -- stormy daniels. that's it for us. tonight stay tuned for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >> good evening, alex.

-- saying, well, hey, it sounds like what michael cohen did is a very serious crime, with donald trump. i guess that's video donald trump hadn't seen before -- >> hiring joe tacopina -- and now alvin bragg has -- joe tacopina -- which could literally take joe tacopina off of this case. -- trump's defense. >> and alex, during your hour, there's been a huge development in washington and jack smith's investigation and the grand jury -- ultra fast-tracked appeal process going on. luckily, we've got andrew weissmann here and others to discuss this. and later in the hour, because i am wondering how donald trump was feeling tonight, and because everyone who works for donald trump is a liar for donald trump, i don't rely on what the trump staff says, like the new york times does, about how donald trump is -- i'm going to ask them mary trump tonight. >> oh!

>> -- how her uncle is feeling as they close in on him and prosecutors, officers, all across the country. >> that, lawrence, is called a deep cut and a must watch segment. i will be tuning in for than. >> thanks, alex. >> see you! >> -- for donald trump, which involve court procedural deadlines. unlike any we have ever seen, we have an ultra high speed appeal of a ruling ordering one of donald trump's lawyers to testify to special prosecutor jack smith and the grand jury. the trump lawyers have a filing deadline of midnight tonight in the federal appeals court in washington d.c.. and jack smith has a response deadline of six hours later, six i am tomorrow morning. that is happening right now tonight. and so, the biggest legal development in the criminal investigation of donald trump

did not happen in manhattan today, as oh trump incorrectly predicted on saturday. donald trump was not charged with crimes today by the manhattan district attorney alvin bragg, as donald trump predicted he would be on saturday. also, there were virtually no protests against prosecutions of donald trump anywhere today, even though on saturday donald trump begged his supporters to get out there and protest what he said would be his arrest today in manhattan. protesters were out in manhattan today, out in front of trump tower, demanding that donald trump be prosecuted for everything. more people turned out in manhattan today to demand that donald trump be prosecuted than the total number of people who have turned out in the entire country to protest donald trump being prosecuted. it was the biggest protests since 2019 in los angeles today

by teachers and workers in the los angeles school district, who have not had a public protest like that since 2019. so, yes, there was protest in america today, but not to support donald trump against the prosecutors who are closing in on him. and the worst legal news that donald trump is living with, at this very hour tonight, it's from special prosecutor jack smith's grand jury in washington d.c. investigating donald trump's possession of government documents, including classified documents, after leaving office. abc news has delivered the most important beginning part of the breaking news of the night under the headline, special counsel claims trump deliberately misled his attorneys about classified documents. prosecutors in the special counsel's office have presented compelling preliminary evidence that former president donald

trump knowingly and deliberately misled his own attorneys about his retention of classified materials after leaving office, a former top federal judge wrote friday in a sealed filing, according to sources who described its contents to abc news. federal judge barrel howell, in her role as chief judge of the district court in washington d.c., had been supervising jack smith's investigation -- grand jury investigation -- until friday, when her term as chief judge came to an end. the new chief judge is james roseburg, who, like judge howell, was appointed by president obama. abc reports that jack smith's office presented evidence to judge howell, quote, showing that the former president had committed criminal violations, according to the sources and that attorney-client privilege

is invoked by two of his lawyers could therefore -- abc news is reporting that judge beryl howell ordered trump lawyer evan corcoran to testify to the grand jury without the protection of the client attorney client privilege and that judge beryl howell also ordered corcoran to hand over a number of records tied to what howell described as trump's alleged criminal scheme, echoing prosecutors. those records include handwritten notes, invoices and transcriptions of personal audio recordings howell agreed prosecutors made a sufficient showing that, on its face, would appear to show trump committed crimes. abc went on to report, quote, prosecutors showed sufficient evidence that trump intentionally conceal the existence of additional classified documents from courtroom sources, said, putting corcoran in an and waiting position to deceive the

government. evan corcoran wrote a sworn statement signed by another trump lawyer, which they gave to the justice department, anything swearing under oath, that they had turned over all of the government documents and classified documents in donald trump's possession. but when the fbi later executed a search warrant, they found more than 100 additional documents that were marked classified, including in a classified document in donald trump's desk. after trump lawyers swore under oath, to the justice department there was no more classified documents in donald trump's possession, the fbi actually found classified documents in his desk. if donald trump lied to evan corcoran and other lawyers working for him about his possession of those documents, and that is a very strong case

for obstruction of justice against donald trump. the breaking news of the last hour, reported by politico, is that judge howls ruling is on an ultra fast-track appeal schedule, with a -- of the federal circuit court of appeals, with the trump lawyers facing a midnight deadline for their filing in jack smith -- facing a six a.m. response deadline to the trump attorneys filing. to many, that case, involving the illegal possession of classified documents, appears to be a more serious case than the manhattan case about paying of a porn star to purchase her silence about one very brief sexual experience she claims she had with donald trump in a hotel room for months after the birth of his last child. but is it? is it a more important case? if donald trump committed

crimes with government documents, he committed those crimes after being president of the united states. the crimes donald trump allegedly committed in purchasing the temporary silence of stormy daniels, or crimes that enabled donald trump to win the presidency. if stormy daniels had told her story about sex with donald trump three weeks before the presidential election, when she was ready to tell her story publicly, donald trump probably would not have won the electoral college. michael cohen, acting on donald trump's behalf, and at his direction, according to the federal prosecutor -- michael cohen purchased stormy daniels silence one day after this became public. >> again, automatically -- >> [laughter] >> -- when you are a star, they let

you do. it they let you do anything. grab them by the [bleep] >> -- time trump's presidential campaign was in free fall a mere 24 hours after that video became public. republicans who had endorsed donald trump withdrew their endorsements that very night. some of them called on don't trump to quit the republican campaign and -- donald trump, for the first time in his public life, was cornered into sounding apologetic and begging his voters to forgive with they heard him say in that access hollywood video. but donald trump hung in there. >> i pledge to be a better man tomorrow and will never, ever let you down. >> imagine. imagine if the day after donald trump said that, stormy daniels had gone on television and said this. >> i'm like, someone should

take that magazine and spank you with it. i will never forget the look on his face. >> what was the look? >> just -- i don't think anyone had ever spoken to him like that, especially a young woman who looked like me. and -- give me that! i turned and went, you wouldn't. handed over -- so, he did, and i was like, turn around. drop them. >> you told donald trump to turn around and take off his pants? >> yes. >> and did he? >> yes. -- he had on underwear and stuff and i gave him a couple of laps. >> by the time stormy daniels went on 60 minutes, donald trump was already president. the federal prosecutors who sent michael cohen to prison for facilitating the stormy daniels hush money conspiracy said that michael cohen committed his crimes in coordination with and at the direction of individual one. individual one, of course, is

donald trump. prosecutor said the conspiracy was designed to, quote, affect the presidential election. without the crimes michael cohen committed in coordination with and at the direction of donald trump to silence stormy daniels, this country and the world might never have had to endure for years of a donald trump presidency. it's something to keep in mind when you are trying to decide which of the criminal investigations and possible prosecutions of donald trump is the most important. leading off our discussion tonight is charles coleman, a former federal prosecutor and former senior assistant district attorney in brooklyn, new york. he is now a civil rights attorney and an msnbc legal analyst. also with us is andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and former chief of the criminal division in the eastern district of new york. he is a professor of practice at nyu law school and an msnbc

legal analyst. andrew weissmann's coauthored piece in the new york times today is titled, make no mistake, the investigation of donald trump and the stormy daniels scheme is serious. andrew weissmann, i want to begin with the breaking news of the night. i saw neil kept y'all, an appeals process expert, saying -- that he -- never seen a midnight deadline followed by six a.m. deadline in an appeal like this. what is your sense of what is happening in that situation? >> there is no question this has been extremely tight deadline. this relates to the ruling that judge beryl howell issued on friday, saying that evan corcoran needs to testify and that the document that he has are not privileged, that if your client and you've tried to

commit a crime, you would -- your lawyer, whether the lawyer is whipping or unwitting, there is no attorney client privilege in that context. that is a very unassailable ruling. but usually people are allowed to appeal and to say -- to see whether an appellate judge panel would agree with that. and here the appellate panel has said, yes, you can specify exactly what documents you think should not be turned over. but you have until midnight tonight. the government has said that you have until six a.m.. so i do expect we could have another ruling even by tomorrow. one then it does it is it keeps adding grand jury appearances, moving along very rapidly. there is law that when you have a grand jury, the courts are supposed to be quite rapid in keeping the grand jury process moving. because that is what the law -- system to hold people to accountable, either to charge

people or to find that they shouldn't be charged. so, this is in keeping with that body of law. but i totally agree with neal katyal, that i've never seen something quite this quick. but again, i think judge beryl howell is on a very strong grounds here in terms of her ruling. >> charles, i'm noticing about those deadlines -- literally, like six hours -- would seem to suggest that the appeals court think this is a relatively simple matter. a pretty simple matter at this particular decision-making stage. >> yes, lawrence, i do agree with that. i think the general consensus is that they should be a very straightforward issue with a straightforward answer for both parties. i also think in some respects it is a -- appeals court believes -- at their disposal. donald trump and his team of lawyers, and however many attorneys he has working for them, keep there expectation is that they will have something ready --

for jack smith and the doj, the expectation there is that deal we work on the case with jack smith, who will be able to respond to whatever the now issue is, the simple question is, by six i am. so i think that is part of why we are seeing this accelerated schedule from the judge as these move forward. >> but andrew, it also seems that voice this three judge panel is saying to -- who knows how much they are consuming of what trump lawyers are doing in other cases, like in georgia, where they are obviously trying to delay with these filings they did yesterday. they seem to be saying -- the trump lawyers -- do not expect that your delay tactics which we have seen you try to use in every jurisdiction in the country -- do not expect them to work here. we are going to move this as fast as we possibly can. and what is the import of evan corcoran's testimony, assuming it is going to go forward? >> so, i totally agree with you

that this is the court saying, we are not putting up with any of that monkey business. we dictate the schedule, not you. i think that your second question goes to the heart of the matter, which is, if the reporting is correct that mr. corcoran is going to say, i was the one missed led by donald trump, i put in that certification and i drafted it based on what he told me, i did not know it was false, that it contained false information, because that is what i learned from my client donald trump. this is basically game over. that is incredibly strong evidence of obstruction of justice. it is a crime to lie to the government, whether you do it directly or you do it through your counsel. that is exactly what happened with paul manafort and brett gates. the judge in this is judge beryl howell -- if she issued the exact same ruling, we had the exact same results, saying, we had a

lawyer who was unwitting, saying i learn this information in my client, and we immediately charge -- both dates with obstruction of justice, and we knew we had a rock solid case. this could be exactly the same thing that happens if the reporting is correct that that is what mr. corcoran is going to. say it may also be the case contemporaneous notes. it is not unusual for a defense lawyer to keep those notes, especially if you are representing someone like donald trump. we know that don mcgahn, and people in the white house did exactly that. they knew they needed to have a record with him, that they couldn't later be confronted by saying, that's not what happened. so, i would be highly surprise of mr. corcoran did not write down exactly what he had been told. >> yeah, and charles coleman, we have already seen some reports indicating that notes -- that corcoran's notes who are part of what would be made available to jack smith. by tonight's reporting there is the phrase, audio recordings.

that is always something that when you see in the possible mix of evidence really jumps out, especially in anything involving donald trump. the possibilities of audio recordings, possibly even of donald trump, possibly phone calls about this matter, discussions with him -- that is what is possible in the mix of what we are looking at tonight. >> that is correct. i think it goes to show just how tenuous the relationship that donald trump has had with the attorneys that he has retained to represent him. i think that they are very clear that the partner that they are dancing with is not going to be -- in many respects, many of the lawyers that he has dealt with have made today point to make sure that their eyes are dotted and there -- for a time such as this. unfortunately, it does appear that now they have been misled,

the attorneys are still going to have to go through -- what was told him by his client in hopes of basically dodging a bullet and hoping that the accountability lands with the -- doorstep of donald trump. >> andrew, i remember when we discovered that the sworn statement, basically, that evan corcoran was part of handing over to the fbi, when we discovered that turned out to be totally untrue, i just remembered discovering it live on this program. and all of us thinking, well, he can't be trump's lawyer anymore. he has to immediately go get a criminal defense lawyer and take care of himself. yet he has tried to hang in there as donald trump's lawyer all the way to now. is this the end of his capacity to serve as a donald trump's defense counsel in this case? >> he would be unlikely to be able to be on

what's called council of record if there were to be a case involving the mar-a-lago documents, involving obstruction, and the retention of classified documents. you cannot be a lawyer and a witness, to state the obvious. so, he would not be able to do that. until such time that there is a charge, he could, still, represent donald trump, because donald trump could decide, even though he knows there is conflicts, that he will use him as counsel. but, i think that anybody and mr. corcoran's position who i think would take the better part of valor and say i can't, ethically, do that. but there is nothing the government right now could do about it. i highly doubt, he will remain a council of record if there are charges brought. >> and charles coleman, what

about the client? -- what does he want? what does donald trump want his future relationship with this lawyer to be? >> well, you know, lawrence, i said for a long time, there's two people you should never lie to. the first of your mother and the other is your attorney. -- in this situation he definitely does not want this attorney to go forward before the grand jury. by the does appear as though, barring a miraculous victory on a victory on appeals, that is very unlikely to happen. i can still see donald trump during declined to have this person represent him as the council of record. it will be an issue where i imagine he will move it and then have him disqualified if jack smith doesn't do it. first >> charles coleman and andrew weissmann, thank you both very much for joining us on this breaking news reporting. i appreciate it. >> you are welcome, thank you. >> coming up, kevin mccarthy

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are coming here to defend president trump. but what we are coming to defend is equal justice in america. that was kevin mccarthy, not defending donald trump today but because, it was kevin mccarthy, he then defended donald trump's hush money payment to stephanie clifford, the actress known as stormy daniels. >> this is personal money no it

>> -- the money came from the trump business and the business records that were falsified to label that money which is a crime, according to new york law. kevin mccarthy then, tried to insult manhattan district attorney men alvin bragg this way. >> what we see before us is a political game being played by levels this isn't just new york city, this is manhattan, a borough da. yeah, right. >> allen bag is not the district attorney for the entire city of new york, because the biggest city in america, actually, has five different district attorneys. unlike say, fresno, the biggest city in kevin mccarthy's congressional district, alvin bragg is the district attorney for 1.6 million people. that is more than double the number of people that speaker of the house kevin mccarthy

represents in his central california district. and it is more people than live in nine states in the united states of america. joining us now democratic congressman adam schiff of california. he served on the january 6th select committee and was the lead impeachment manager for the first impeachment trial of donald trump. it's currently a candidate for the united states senate of california. congressman adam schiff, that was kevin mccarthy not defending donald trump today, in his version of not defending donald trump. but i imagine you are going to be dealing with this on a daily basis now as the defending trump situation develops across the country. >> absolutely. and of course, lawrence, if you're right there with kevin mccarthy -- another vending about less me defend. him more than just defending

him on that stage he has directed the chair of the judiciary committee jim jordan to essentially investigate the manhattan district attorney, jordan another republican chairs have written to the da demanding documents, demanding testimonies. they are acting like donald trump's criminal defense lawyers except they also have the subpoena power which makes them dangerous. to hear kevin mccarthy also i have to say it was more than i could stomach talk about equal justice. as you pointed out what he is interested in is the most unequal justice in which the republican party leader donald trump gets bats for any crime of criminal activity. as you mentioned, if the indictment charging michael cohen identified individual one or otherwise known as donald trump as directing the campaign fraud scheme involving that hush money to the point star, then what's the argument to the guy that -- directly has to go to jail, michael cohen, but the guy who did the directing gets a pass.

that's not equal justice. but apparently mccarthy must think that well everybody should be able to pay off porn stars and hide it when they run for office or some such nonsense. but this is kevin mccarthy, once again throwing all in with donald trump defending him with the indefensible. congressman schiff i fully honor your outrage at the republicans abuse of their positions as chairman of committees who are now pretending. they're pretending to have jurisdiction over the manhattan district attorney. i am just jaded enough and live far enough outside the house of representatives that if i look at it as an utter absurdity. they will not ever be a subpoena that they send to the manhattan district attorney that will be responded to in any way. for documents, talk for testimony, not for anything -- absolutely nothing will happen

by what they are doing. but that is my view of it. i do agree it is important to keep the notion of the ideal of what these committees are supposed to do in front of americans to understand just how wild and out of control this behavior is. >> it's important to set a baseline and to help share with the country just how dangerous and absurd this is, just how much this is a continuation of the trump playbook of investigate the investigators, discredit the investigation when there's a legitimate investigation or prosecution of a criminal or a potential criminal and he is a member of their party or party leader -- it is, in their view, by definition, somehow illegitimate. that's not how the rule of law works. we are going to be a nation of laws, we can be no respect of persons -- that means the law has to apply

equally to anyone. and what they really want is the unequal application of the law. they want immunity for their party leader. they are positing without any evidence that this is somehow a political prosecution. they don't know anything about what the witnesses testified before the grand jury. and look, if the manhattan grand jury believes there's probable cause that donald trump committed a crime and prosecutors believe they can prove that crime, it is their obligation to go forward. one thing we have seen with donald trump is that if you do not hold him accountable he will go on to do worse and worse and worse. it's a dangerous idea in the abstract. it's even more dangerous in the concrete case of donald trump to set a different standard for former presidents. >> the stormy daniels case is the perfect example of what you are talking about. if not held accountable, we will go on to do worse and worse. you can show on the calendar of donald trump's life that after he paid off stormy daniels he did indeed go on to do worse and worse and worse. and after

michael cohen was prosecuted during the trump presidency for those crimes and donald trump never faced any consequences. no center from congress, no impeachment process over that issue -- he then went on to do worse and worse and worse things, involving blackmail with ukraine, and then of course, the january 6th insurrection. >> there is nothing worse that you can do regarding someone who has no ethical compass than leave them to believe that they will never be held accountable. this has been the problem with donald trump. he has glide his entire life. but now now those lies have an enormous consequences. and if it should be that he gets the impression or that others in positions of responsibility to get the impression that by virtue of their position they can lie with impunity, they can lie about hush money payments, they can lie about the retention of

classified documents, they can lie about coercing a nation to smear your opponent, they can lie about elections and cause violent attacks on the capital -- there is just no into it. there must be accountability. we on the january 6th committee tried to bring out accountability to the degree congress can. but if there is going to be justice, that's going to have to be delivered by prosecutors. >> congressman adam schiff, thank you very much for joining us again tonight. >> thank you. >> and coming up -- how is donald trump feeling tonight as prosecutors close in on him? the only trump who publicly tells the truth about donald trump -- donald trump's niece, mary trump, will join us next. ♪♪ get $1500 purchase allowance on a 2023 cadillac xt5 and xt6.

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lawyers said today that donald trump is sad. >> you've talked to mr. trump every day, maybe multiple times a day. how does he feel? what is he telling about the da's case? >> i think the this is another day for the president. >> is he scared? is he worried? >> no, he's not. >> what's the state of mind? >> -- like everyone who works for don trump, you lies for donald trump. so, we have no idea if he is sad. your guess about how donald trump's feeling is more accurate then what anyone who

works for donald trump says about how donald trump is feeling. the new york times, which always has an easy time penetrating trump world to get a name for trump sources to talk about donald trump, always makes the mistake, frequently makes the mistake, i should say, of believing them, as the new york times does and what they think is their breaking news report of the night under headline about donald trump's magic thinking. the first sentence is, donald j trump claims he is ready for his perp walk. now that is the correct the way to report that line. we don't know if he's ready. but he claims he is ready. too often, the new york times and others fall into eliminating that distinction. and later, in the same article, the times reports, his aides view the impending indictment and the potential for more to come as an asset for the campaign.

>> you have no idea what is aids aides think. -- and the potential for more to come are not said to the campaign. that's a big difference. and of as i said, everyone who works for donald trump lies for donald trump. so, when donald trump's unnamed aides tell the new york times whatever they tell the new york times, the times should always report it as the aides saying that or claiming that instead of the new york times fully falling for the trump world line and reporting it as if it's a fact. no one who is willing to talk publicly about donald trump has a better insight into how he really thinks and what he really feels then our next guest. julia snow's mary trump, clerical psychologist and niece of donald trump.

she is the host of the podcast the mary trump and author of the reckoning, our nation's trauma and finding a way to heal. thank you very much for joining us tonight. i have been wondering about you. i have been wondering what you have been wondering about your uncle, and what do you suppose he's feeling tonight, with his lawyers in washington, living under a midnight deadline to try and get their way in the documents case and with alvin bragg in manhattan as close to an indictment as apparently any prosecutors are. >> well lawrence first of all, it's great to be here with you. and you are talking about these quotes from people near donald, who, allegedly, spend a lot of time with him, there is always a disconnect between what they claim and what i know can't possibly be true. so, i think first of all the

emotion of sadness is not in donald's arsenal. what he is feeling to the extent that he is feeling anything, the self pity. that makes sense. he's also feeling grievance but he feels aggrieved every time he walks into the mar-a-lago dining room and his paid patrons don't pay him sufficient homage, right? so, none of this is new. he has such unlimited range. that -- the fact that they keep asking the people in his inner circle about his state of mind is fascinating. because as you just pointed out they never tell the truth about it. particularly fascinating is this idea that he is seizing this as an opportunity, that he is happy about the so-called perp walk. don't get me wrong, i think it is much more likely that we see him turn himself in so to speak, then then that he dig in his

heels and stay at mar-a-lago waiting to be arrested. but that is because he is a coward, not because he is trying to make a grief stand against anything. >> we said something that i find so serious psychological problems. he has such serious

psychopath-ology is that the range of motion that is available to most relatively stable people is not available to him. i think donald's emotional makeup consists mostly of anger and the self pity i spoke about earlier and deep, deep fair and a lot of that is in the circle of making sure he never feel humiliated. >> i am realizing now i have never asked you this. and i guess we're gonna squeeze in a commercial break to come back to this. because i'm now wondering, how what's your uncle, and the experience of your uncle donald -- how much of a role that played in your choice to pursue work as a clinical psychologist. you have a couple minutes to think about that. we are going to squeeze in the commercial break. we are going to be right back

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exposure to this, growing up -- one of the weirdest men in the world -- part of what scent you down the road to study a clinical psychology. >> you know, lawrence, if you were to ask me at the time, i would have said no, which is superficially and structurally in some ways true. however, when i started having to excavate my family history in order to write my first book, which is in large part about the relationship between my grandfather, and his two older sons, i realized that unconsciously, i probably did make the choice to study clinical psychology, because of my experience, not just because my experience in my family, because of certain patterns i recognize. and one of them, continues to this day, and you and congressman schiff alluded to in it, and it's that donald, because of what a week on accomplished person he is, and

because of his psychological inability to reckon with any of that, needs to destroy anybody who is superior to him, needs to undermine and the institutions that he feels hold him back. and, of course, his very first victim was my dad. >> yes, and you've written about that movingly. have you heard stormy daniels say anything -- it was a few years ago that that 60 minutes interview came out -- but have you heard anything from her, where you think, no, no -- especially her description of being in the room with donald where you would think, oh, he'd never say that. -- >> there's no reason in my view to not take her account very seriously. in fact, just watching that clip, she had his gestures down, the pointing. and i have heard interviews in which he says he called her honey bunch, which was the term

of and determined in my family. and whenever i hear her say it's instills down my spine. i find her very credible. >> i can imagine. how do you suppose your uncle donald is feeling tonight after he called for mass protests, presumably all over the country? and the biggest trump based protest we have had since then he's today in manhattan. and it's protesters demanding that donald trump be indicted by all of the prosecutors who are investigating him. >> yeah, that was a beautiful thing to say see, i have to say. it's very hard to tell with donald. he so defended against any information that doesn't align with his perception of things. so, if you were to allow himself to see what was going on, clearly, he's probably

furious. but it's still early days. and quite honestly, i was never really worried about new york, because it's new york. and the nypd is on top of this. he doesn't have a lot of support there. i'm much, much, much more worried about the kinds of stochastic terrorism he's engaged in in the past and the less he's able to get crowds to do his bidding, as he did on january 6th, the more likely he is to get desperate and try to incite the kinds of more isolated violence. and what's worrisome about that is it could happen anywhere in the country. >> yeah. the last time he asked for a big protest, he got the violent trump mob attack in the capital. now, he's getting nothing. he's getting nothing, and i mean nothing. >> listen, i think there is, it's very difficult to make the

case, and his getting indicted, or having paid money to a porn after he had an affair with outside of marriage, in order to keep her quiet so that none of the american people would know, they that he had cheated on his wife who had just had a baby -- it's very hard to make the case that that has anything to do with the future of american democracy. >> mary trump, telling us the inside as no one else could. thank you very much for joining us tonight. we always appreciate it. >> thank, you lawrence. >> we will be right back. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators

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last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts right now. >> tonight, there's new reporting about the special counsel