>> good morning. i'm jonathan kagan this is the saturday show. we are continuing our coverage of the breaking news former president donald trum posted on truth social that he will be arrested tuesday o next week and calling th manhattan district attorney' office quote, highly political he also called for people to protest to quote, take our nation back the manhattan da's office hasn't commented on a trump' post but nbc news was the firs to report that local state and federal law enforcement ar preparing for a possible indictment as early as nex week if there is an indictment, donald trump would be the firs former president in u.s. history to face criminal charges. and according to his attorney, trump intends to surrender t

authorities if he is indicted. we have full team coverage starting with my colleague msnbc anchor katie phang and katie, this is incredibl news to wake up to you you are the lawyer here. talk about what this means in terms of what we can ge essentially see from the mante eight ex week? >> thanks, jonathan. i think what's important t consider is that this is a truth social posed by donald trump. yes, it is breaking news because it is the former president of the united states but we haven't had a situation on our history with ou president of the united states is been indicted but he has indicated that he anticipates that he will b arrested on tuesday of nex week what's important, jonathan about that post is that we kno that donald trump likes to use truth socialism mouthpiece o sorts. he likes to use it as a no very pleasant playground to be able to put things out there that's not necessarily true. now, he's indicating in that

post that is coming from leaks from the da office so perhaps he's just trading o information that he is t obtain their's defense counsel but what is critical is th idea that the eight fo president united states is anticipating being arrested on tuesday. the last hour i spoke to som other analyst, jonathan, wha we're trying to figure just th logistics. assuming an indictment has bee returned to a grand jury, th idea that genre donald trump actually shows up, get fingerprinted, gets booked, an actually goes through th process like any other crimina defense would have to go through. and the fact that he has unite states equal service protectio the entire time. i mean, there's a lot of movin parts here assuming that he is indicted and will be arrested on tuesday, there's gonna be frankly, and know if you see this adjective a lot jonathan lately, but i will be unprecedented to see what happens next week >> well i'm glad you brought u the process question because that anticipates another profi question i was going to as you. as i said in the intro, trump' lawyer says that he will follo

the normal procedures if indee an indictment happens. so, what it leads to his two questions. if he does indeed voluntaril surrender, that for closes the possibility of him having to b arrested because he's no turning himself in am i following that part of th process right? >> well, he is still going t be arrested, jonathan. it is just whether or not yo see the cops converging an putting him in the handcuffs and perp walk him into a cup car. you are not going to see that. his defense council ha indicated he will surrende himself. he will show up. because that is the normal process, jonathan, if anybod is a criminal defendant, i they are being arrested an they have the luxury and i will use that word luxury, of being able to tur themselves in, then they wil be fingerprinted and booked. they will get a jail number, and they will go through the process of basically going t an arraignment where the charges will be read and the will answer a plea of no guilty and basically a deman for a jury trial but in this instance, defens

counsel for donald trump i indicated that, if a indictment is returned the will actually have donald trum appeared to go through tha process. >> and, then so, he shows up and appears without process. i'm sure a lot of people a home are wondering, okay, if indeed this normal process happens, another part of the process is, once they ar booked and fingerprinted and all of that, will he stay in jail or will he be released on his own recognizance >> yeah. so, we call that an r o r. to be released on your own recognizance again, unprecedented former president of the united states you think he would be able t keep track of where he is. and i think it is a pretty saf bet. i think what kind of creates a wrinkle and maybe changes th calculus for the da's office but more importantly for the judge who is assigned to thi case involving the forme president of the united states is that suggestion that perhap he could be a flight risk which, listen, he hasn't gone anywher yet. maybe he has to turn in hi

passport so that he cannot travel he is a man of purported means alleged means. and so, that is a concern. if you are going through the puck and you are following tha book, jonathan you are treating him just like any other criminal defendant you are going to look at standard bond conditions say he is released on his ow recognizance he doesn't have to actuall post a cash bond or give any money. but, maybe he has to turn in his passport maybe he cannot travel outside of florida maybe he can only travel and stay within new york there are certain things tha are going to be considered and that is up to the judge is going to be imposing the bon conditions to make tha decision >> one more question for you katie. we are getting word that the manhattan da is declining to comment on trump's truth socia post not surprising, right? >> yeah. not surprising at all. i think you saw alvin bragg wa on reverend al's show last weekend. declined to talk about the substance of what was going on with that investigation. just indicated that it was ongoing. i think all of the signs thi week, through the leaks that have come out from tha investigation, the signs are

pointing towards an indictment having been returned for donal trump. but, again, until you see it you won't believe it and i think that should be applied in this particular instance >> msnbc's katie phang thank you very very much for sticking around after your show we will be seeing yo throughout the morning joining me now, ranking member of the financial service committee, californi congresswoman maxine waters. and, msnbc legal analyst barbara mcquade. congresswoman waters, i have t start with you you had been warning everybody since the beginning of the trump presidency about who h is your reaction to the breakin news this morning from the former president who says, o his own social media platform, that he will be arrested he says this, on tuesday >> well, let me just say this, jonathan constantly, as i travel around

the country, people are asking me when is he going to b arrested and indicted's? is he above the law? hasn't he done enough so tha the american people can have faith and confidence that th law applies to him also? yes, i started very earl warning the american publi about this president i have never seen, most people have never seen, or believed that we would have a precedent to has acted in the way that h has, who has disrespected th constitution of the united states of america. who has lied, who has tried to organize domestic terrorists and some believe that he did i organize them as they attacked our capital on january 6th this president has conducted himself in a way that he doe

not deserve, not to be arrested he should be arrested. he should be indicted. and the charges that he's been indicted on our minimal as opposed to the charges that believe he could have been indicted on. i don't know what is going t happen when he announces himself. it is almost like he i attempting to organize domesti terrorist to show up and resis him being arrested you have to be careful wit him. he didn't just, go ahead >> finish that thought rea quick. but >> i beg your pardon >> finish the thought you ar going to make before i interrupted. >> oh i just wanted to have yo to understand that perhaps h was trying to organize domesti terrorists to protest hi arrest and i think we have to b

careful about him making tha announcement he is doing it for a reason. >> right and we are being careful about reporting that aspect of his truth social post. but i want to be clear, th former president has not officially been indicted as a result, we do not kno what, if any charges he coul be indicted on until we hear from the manhattan da. i want to point out also tha we have heard from the manhattan da the manhattan da, alvin, bragg is declining to comment on the former presidents social media posts that he will be arrested on tuesday barbara mcquade, let me brin you in to the conversation because, what i would love for you to talk from your lega perspective what it means fo the former president to make that announcement that he made >> well,, jonathan and i think we have seen time and time again that donald trump always uses the strategy of the bes

defense is a good offense. so most people would feel some shame upon being indicted or being arrested and so donald trump's playbook is to turn this around in a wa to use it with aggression to try to use it to his advantage so, once again that is about victimization. it is about grievance. and even calling for people to take our nation back which, as the congresswoma just said, sounds an awful lot like we'll be wild on januar 6th. so we may see protests on th streets, and that seems to be strategy here to try t demonstrate that the people se the some sort of a grave injustice. but this is about the rule o law. this is not about democrat versus republicans this is about a violation of the law in holding a perso accountable the way anyone els would be and i know some people want to minimize this charge a pertaining to a love squabble, protecting his wife from allegations of a stripper. but what this case is about is

falsifying business records to prevent the american peopl from learning facts they could've formed their opinio and their vote before the 2016 election so it is an important matter at its core it is abou enforcing the law, and n person is above it congresswoman, do you expect t hear anything from you republican colleagues we leave aside what might happe next week, but to what the former president has put out o his social media platform this morning? >> let me just say this, the republican party has not don any during any of th presidents or any of his unlawful actions, as i would see, it criticized him they have been totally irresponsible in their representation for the peopl of their districts and thi country. they have seen him organize th

way the january six wa organized, and i am, saying don't know what exactly others are saying but i am saying tha he is totally responsible fo the invasion of our capital. did they criticize him did they say that he should no have been involved in the wa that he led that organizatio organizing effort? do they say they were sorr about the deaths that took place at our capitol police? did they denounce him in any way? no they did not. they did not do it and i don't know whether the are just a threat afraid of him, or whether or not they agree with him and so, i expect that they are going to be quiet. if they say anything, it wil be more in the shape and for of marjorie taylor greene wh will say anything. she will defend him, she wil accuse everybody else of being

irresponsible, political, an unnecessarily picking on the former president of the united states so, no i don't expect them t do anything we're actually sponsored lee. they have not, in the, past up until today they have not. and i don't expect them to stand up and be real representatives of thi country. >> barbara, given what we know what's been reported in th press up until this point, i it possible that manhattan d alvin bragg will not indic donald trump >> it is always a possibility. the last reporting we have i that donald trump's lawyers me with alvin bragg, that he wa invited to come testify, tha they put michael cohen in th grand jury, that they've interviewed stormy daniels all of those tea leaves seem t suggest that there is an indictment, but that is always a possibility. there is not a confirmatio that he has been indicted. it could be that they plan t

present this indictment on monday which seems to be a realisti timeline in light of the fac that michael cohen was there a their last session o wednesday. it appears that they meet on mondays and wednesdays so i can imagine a scenari taking place that goes lik this when they talked to donald trump's lawyers, the prosecuto said, we anticipate presenting this case to a grand jury on monday we anticipate that they will return and indictment. but of course, there is possibility that they don't se the case is the way we do. it is rare but it happens. it happened in the case of and mccabe, for example. where graduate shows not t return an indictment against him when the justice departmen under william ball i presented. so it happens. but i can't imagine what the would say is, if that grandeur a does what we expect to happen, which is to return a indictment on monday, then w would want to see your client, donald trump, in court o tuesday. now, do we need to arrest hi or will you travel to new york and bring him here so that h could appear in court on

tuesday? and i think that is likely where the statement comes from that he will surrender himself and that they are looking at tuesday. that timeline all makes sens to me. but of course, there's a possibility that the grand jur says, no we don't think that there is a violation of th law. here we don't see probable cause. and therefore, we declined t return and indictment. >> one more question for you barbara. because as you mentioned stormy daniels the person who' also at the center of the hush money payment scheme, we kno she talked to prosecutors last week is there a possibility that, since the grand jury meets o mondays and wednesdays as he said, that she could testify before that grand jury o monday and still adhere to the timeline that you are just mentioning >> yes, that is a possibility. prosecutors make to strategi decisions about whether they want to just interview somebody, or whether they think it i necessary to put them in the grand jury sometimes it is useful to ge their testimony under oath where person might b

forthcoming, or to lock them into a story if you have any concerns that down the road, when a case goes to trial's year from now, that the person might have some motive t fabricate a claim later to change their mind. maybe they get paid off, maybe they aligned themselves with the defendant. so, there are reasons that you might want to put a person i the grand jury but you could still do that on monday have her testify for say a hour or so, and still have tim for the prosecutors to mak their summation and give the grand jury time to deliberat over a proposed indictment s that timeline could still take place even if they do want t put her into the grandeur. >> and, congresswoman waters last question to you what will it say if that manhattan grand jury decline to indict donald trump in this case >> well, you know, i think tha the majority of the american people will be disappointed. because, again, we keep talkin about, he can't be above the

law. but if he is not indicted, i certainly sends that signal ou to the public that, nothing is going to happen to this man. no matter what he has done he's been accused of a lot tha appears certainly to b criminal from the time tha they resisted, allowing people of color to rent apartments, h has been accused of cheating subcontractors who have been working and building on hi buildings. he has been accused of all kinds of things. and then he has been s respectful he talked about grabbing women by their private parts he's talked about hi colleagues wives being ugly. he has just disrespected s very much. and he has aligned himself wit putin and kim jong-un and th love letters that he's exchanged. he has just done so much tha is either criminal

disrespectful, certainly undeserving of someone who has served as the president of the united states of america i have been absolutely appalled, and i have spent a lot of time as you've said, from the tim he was inaugurated, warning th american people that he ha demonstrate the kind o ridiculous and unlawful conduc for so long. and the american people i sa there are people who spent tim in jail for minimal offenses the people who are languishing in jail for marijuan possession and on and on and on so, the american people will b very disappointed for the most part if he certainly is no indicted and if certainly doesn't go to jail and so, i am hopeful tha everyone - the prosecutor, the attorney general, everyone has done

everything and will continue t do everything that they can do to prove to the american peopl that he is not above the law >> and with that, we are going to leave it. their congress woman maxim waters, a special thank you to you for coming to us live from the west coast barbara mcquade, thank you ver much for coming to the saturda show let's bring in charlie savage, msnbc contributor, and andre weissmann, msnbc news and msnb legal analyst. thank you both very much for being here general question andrea, i will start with you. your reaction to donald trump' announcement on his social media platform that he will be arrested on tuesday. >> well, the idea that manhattan was going to bring charges is one that we have al been anticipating. so it is not really news tha he is going to be charged. it is confirmation i was interested in the fact that he is suggesting that h

is going to actually surrender i should, say he is suggesting it it is not totally clear. and the reason it is important is that, because this is a state charge in new york, it i conceivable and legally it would be available to him to you sort of such in florida an not surrender to these charges but rather have to require new york to extradite him from florida. i know that sounds sort of antiquated, but that is ou system arcs. this suggests that he is actually going to show up an surrender to the manhattan district attorney's office and go through the process that yo discussed with barbara, which agree. what about what you expect o tuesday. so i thought that wa interesting. i also thought the fact that -- although he claims this is a leak from the government, this

to me he is taking this on his own and saying it on truth social, this is what's going t happen it seems very much like what happened with the mar-a-lago search warrant where he was the one who announced it, the government didn't do anything the reason we knew about it wa because of donald trump's ow actions. and i think that is because he believes, probably correctly that he will get a political bump in his favor from playing the sort of victim card. so i think that's why he i doing it and then the final point is, his language in that truth social where he says just on the side of the law by saying, you should protest of course everyone has a constitutional right to protes peacefully the language take our nation back gets a little closer to the line and it is notable to me that h did not say, you should protes peacefully it was sort of conspicuous tha

he left that word out. even though, as we all know on january six he did throw tha word in which gave him som potential legal cover. but he didn't do that here >> you know, i'm going to brin you in a second, but andrew want to pick up on something you talked about let's say that trump's lawye said yesterday that, if ther is an indictment his clien will follow the normal process if he doesn't, as you pointe out, because he's or state charges new york would the have to go down an extradite him from florida to new york my question is, is there a legal way for florida governor ron desantis to stop that kind of action by new york? >> i think the answer to tha is that he could slow it down, but i really don't think at th end of today that legally he

would be able to stop it it would go to federal court i new york was in that positio where they had to extradit him. it would ultimately go t federal courts it is hard to imagine that ron desantis would be able to do that and i could imagine donald trump just as a politica matter, not really wanting t be in a position where his fat is in the florida governor's hands. >> right florida governor republica governor who hasn't declared his run for presidency yet, bu everyone is anticipating tha he will. charlie, that manhattan da has declined to comment on the social media posts by th former president what i love andrew's summation an his observations about what is happening. i would love from your reporters perspective, you are

observations about what donald trump has done and what it could mean for next week >> we let me say two thing that have not been part of his conversation obviously there is a lot to sa about the implicit call for, b there in the wild part she but there has been a lot o discussion of that already one is, we are reporting tha this is not a certainty. that donald trump himself does not actually know that this is going to happen. and his notion that he wil need to show up and presen himself on tuesday is his best guess, but he is not actually, we are reporting controlle that and so there is a little bit o a cloud here as uncertaint about the timing even assuming this goe forward. so that is one thing to know the other thing to know that w haven't really talked abou here is, the nature of what he would be charged with if allen bag does go forward in a grand

jury and degrees we think that the main charg that thing up and looking at i bookkeeping fraud. a charge that, when they wer repaying michael cohen more of the hush money payments over the course of 2017, in the trump organization's books they recorded that as bein part of a legal retainer fee and there was no legal retainer that was fraudulent entr because it was really repaymen for the stormy daniels hus money payment. in new york, that is only felony if it is fraud it for the purpose of committing or covering it up some othe crime. and there is some unknown to the public, or fuzzy ambiguity around that. i don't think that we, at leas i am not confident that we hav a really firm understandin about brags theory of the case here there has been discussion of well maybe that other crime, probably that other crime is a

campaign finance violation and illegal payment to influence the 2016 campaign, o at least one that should hav been reported as campaig spending, and what's not and the problem or the complication with that is, federal law regulate presidential election campaign spending and disclosures, no state law. and so, the novelty if that is the theory, would be can new york bring a state law offense by coupling it, because it needs to be coupled to som other crime, to a federal crim that alvin bragg in new york prosecutors do not hav jurisdiction to accuse anyon of to bring charges over. if that is this theory, trump' legal team will have a big thing to fight about in term of this is invalid and that you should throw it out. if that is not his theory, i a not confident that that is a theory there may be something els here that is just not in publi view yet so, that is a second takeawa

here of what we don't quit fully understand about what is gonna happen in the next few days >> all right, charlie savage and andrew weissmann i want you guys to stick around i am going to bring in senio capitol hill correspondent - he is in west palm beach i florida near mar-a-lago. garrett, i understand you have some new reporting >> well, jonathan, here's what i can tell you conversations with trump allies and their publi comments, and watching which i'm himself has said publicly, including on truth social an videos that his campaign has published over the last couple of days. an indictment that - is coming next - week - politically with - we - see this as -- as an attack - people even if -

weaponizing the federa government, or donald trump. so if you are a desantis fan or a nikki haley fan, or jus someone who wants to maybe mov on from trump. but you are still a part o that conservative movement if you are still part of tha broader maga coalition, this i going to force you back into trump's camp, at least to some degree that is a way that trump and his allies view this and so, you see something like this truth social post thi morning, which is best i can tell from all the reporting and the rest of our team hav been able to do, the tuesday dates here is purely speculative. he seems to be basing this o leaks, on public reporting including from our colleague jonathan deeds who first broke the story that law enforcement agencies in new york we're getting ready for th possibility of an indictment he seems to be trying to tak that and funnel the possibilit of news here into his own scoop, into his own opportunit to make political hay. and, just further evidence o that point, just the last 15 minutes a super pac blasted ou an email attacking alvin bragg

on this issue. and so, i think if you are trump's campaign, if you are the broader trump orbit, you see the possibility of a indictments kind of as one issue out of maybe a half doze that are sort of key t motivating a conservative base that has been conditioned to believe that the justice department, and kind of th federal justice system, bu also liberal prosecutors a kind of a second bucket, are being weaponized against conservatives. they have been talking about i for years. going back to 2017 they created a subcommitte about this issue in the ne republican controlled congress and now trump is trying to rea the benefits of that politically by effectively trying to scoop his ow indictment on social media thi morning. >> right and, to amplify your point jus before you came on, charli savage at the new york times also pointed out the fact that they are reporting notes tha trump has not been told that tuesday is the day that clearl

it appears the president i speculating. the former president, is speculating. garrett hague, in west pal beach. thank you very much for that latest reporting joining me now, civil rights attorney and msnbc legal analyst charles coleman, and former republican congressma david jolly who's no longe parts of the republican party. david, i have to start wit you. just your reaction to today' breaking news? >> so, i think like andrew said, not a huge surprise. we saw the indicators that i was going in this direction. but that doesn't mean that thi would be a legal action, eve if convicted it might change the course o the election those cases might come out o georgia with fani willis, or ultimately the january six investigation by the attorne general. here's a baseline. a very important baseline on this, jonathan nothing that is about to happe should indeed donald trump's words be true, makes him ineligible to run for presiden of the united states

even if he is convicted, acquitted, it doesn't matter he can still run for president of united states and i think what we know about donald trump is that he intend to and he will. and so then the question becomes, what is the political fallout? does the somehow kneecap his opportunity in the gop primary i think eric's instinct is exactly right that donald trum has the opportunity to say t the other candidates, now is the time stand to be counted. who's side are you on? i think that if you flip the script, and one of the other candidates are thinking this morning, they have baked int their strategy, they 202 strategy that prosecutors will do what they have been unabl to do. which is to take out donal trump under the law. again, that gets us back to you, it may not be this case. it may be the fani willis case in georgia it may be the u.s. departmen of justice case regardin january 6th. >> well, david, let me stick with you here on this point. about those other candidates both declared and undeclared declared being former sout carolina governor nikki haley,

undeclared being current florida governor ron desantis, and others, isn't its time especially with that socia media posts that he posted isn't it time for them to star saying something and saying his name out loud i order to put some distance between him and them >> yeah. it is well past time but you are expecting them t be rational actors and this is where i think yo are going to see them be patient behind closed doors. they will say, oh this i trouble for donald trump but we will see some kind of milquetoast liberal prosecutor attacks, and let's work this out. and here's why the stormy daniels case, sadly is already baked into th narrative. and when john edwards is indicted in 2011 for a ver similar hush money scheme to try to hide a mistress he had, that was brought by federa prosecutors ultimately they di not secure the prosecution but one of the famous quotes out of the trial was, it is no illegal to be a big.

and the stormy daniels case, wherever we are in america culture, the notion is, people already know this about donald trump's behavior so then you get to charliz savages observation. what are the possible charges? it is an accounting issue. relating to how the money wa booked as an expense, an whether or not there is a tied to a state campaign finance la violations or federal one. so the charges themselves ar not the charges that other potential gop candidates desantis, pence, and others, really want to go to the wrath for. and as you said, jarred thin donald trump's name. i think they will wait to se what happens in georgia and ou of doj >> that is an excellent point, david charlie. charles, let me bring you into the conversation because it is curious. we have the social media posts from donald trump. where he says that he is going to be arrested on tuesday an says a bunch of other things i that social media post the manhattan da, alvin bragg, he has declined to comment o

that truth social media posts. your observations about wher we are right now, both donal trump is saying, with th attorney manhattan da is saying, and what that pretense for nex week >> well, john, then this i another step in what has already been a very chaotic an very wild and unusual an unprecedented prosecution. we don't even know whether alvin bragg's office has actually completed their presentation to the grand jury and secured and actual tru bill from that grand jury. and so we have to take donal trump's actual self admissio around his arrest with a grain of salt to some degree now, having said that, i d think that alvin bragg not being willing to confirm tha an indictment has been issue at this point, is actually a sign that something may be coming down the pipe and h does not want to damage th integrity of whateve prosecution is looming i think that it is hard to rea the news anywhere beyond that. donald trump talking about thi

on social media is a very much so what donald trump would d regardless of the level of truth or how much of a lea he's been given, made privy to as far as alvin bragg and hi remaining tightlipped like i said, this could still b something that prosecutors are wrapping up in front of th grand jury and while there may be a stron likelihood that an indictmen will issue, he does not have one yet, or you may not have won yet. which is why he may not have elected to speak any further about this matter at thi point. >> let me ask you the question that i asked barbara mcquade moments ago. that is, is it possible, given all of the information that we know from reporting in various media outlets including ours is it still possible that th manhattan da, and then the grand jury, will not indic donald trump in this matter? >> it is absolutely stil possible we don't know what is going on within that grand jury proceeding it is a secret proceeding. so, there is of course the

notion that alvin bragg coul ultimately decide that there i not enough evidence. and then, here's the other thing that a lot of people are not spoken about just because a t.a.'s office tries to get an indictment doe not mean that the grand jury i going to issue a true bill i know that it is commonplac for us to joke and say that district attorney can get an indictment on a ham sandwich but, the truth is that ultimately the decision abou an indictment starts and end with the grand jury itself so, the presentation is taking place. but the grand jury itself stil has to vote a true bill for al aback to move forward. if that does not happen, tha does not happen, all of this will be for not. so that is the important point for people to understand this is only so much in -- control, because it has to b put to a vote in front of th grand jury that is our system works and i think that people have been a little bit presumptuous that the grand jury is automatically going to hold true bill in this case and you cannot necessarily mak that jump before it happens. >> that is an excellent, excus

me charles, that is an excellent reminder for all o us that we put so much attention on the manhattan da. he is the elected official, he is the chief legal log forsman officer in this situation. but, in the end, the decisio to indict anyone, bu especially in this case th former president, rests with the grand jury one more question for you, dave it actually, for both of you and it is something that i want you to go first a bit it is something that andre weissmann said a moment ago in terms of that truth social media posts that donald trum put out there where he calle for protests and andrew weissmann said, wha was noticeable was that th word peacefully was left out any concern on your part, firs david, about that observation? >> absolutely. and i think that is why, as we anticipated, there will be security protocols around what

bringing donald trump and look like what an arraignment looks like that can be expected obviously donald trump has a powerful voice in american culture. and, is that a call to violenc or not that is something that h always tries to toe that lin on i think that the perhaps greater concern or equal concern is, those who ar adjacent to donald trump who don't need that call we are six years into a divide culture around donald trump, and all things that he stand for in american culture. and there are many peopl adjacent to trump and trumpism they don't need the call i from donald trump. and so this will be a time for choosing, if you, well in a bi

weaponizatio of our injustice system. it seems to me - >> what the former president was. saying it just feels to me lik we are in a completely different tone than we wer when the sun rose this morning >> i think that is right to go to something that you ar asking charles about, which is

is there a possibility tha alvin bragg will decide not to go forward, and is there a possibility that the graduat will decide that there i probable cause for misdemeanor or a felony. it is true that both of thos could happen but they are extremely unlikely and so, what we are seeing fro donald trump and the trump campaign is basically, anticipating how you play this what is the spin that they are going to put on this as they mentioned before i think it is going to be very similar to his use of th mar-a-lago search warrant. and basically using this t play a victim card and to rile up his base, and i do agre with david that people may wai to see within the republican party, what happens in georgia and what happens if there ar any federal charges as well. because this may just be the first of, just to mix metaphors,

the first of three or four she used to drop because, remember, there i this manhattan case, where there is also the georgia case and two federal investigations going on so this may just be the firs dose four investigations comin to fruition. but i do agree with you that w are in a very differen landscape. it is also important t remember that that landscape i going to last for a long time. if there are charges, this coming week, those will not go to court for quite some time any criminal case takes a long time, because of discovery, du process, motions that can be made and of course, donald trump is incredibly savvy at knowing ho to delay things, and throw san in the gears and here, as charlie said, there are lots of motions that we probably will see about federal preemption and challenging the eventual

charges that are a veile likely this week >> andrea, let's talk abou those other shoes you are just mentioning particularly as they pertain t jack smith, the special counse looking into the federal cases we got news yesterday that trump's lawyer evan corcoran cannot use attorney client privilege to you not, to escap from testifying before jacks myths, before his grand jury talk about the significance of that >> yeah. that is, i think this is something that is really likel to occur if there are charges. which is that we could send an up seeing lawyers for donald trump in for the white house playing really key roles and giving key testimony at any trial i've been corcoran, the reason that he is an importan potential witnesses that h drafted but did not sign the

certification that all documents have been returned t the federal government within mar-a-lago. and, we know that's not th case that we in fact there wer documents still there, because the search was done an discovered there so obviously, if you are jackson if you want to know wh did he wish issue that certification. and to, you if anyone, told hi that all the documents hav been returned. presumably, that is going to lead to eventually donal trump. so, barrel howell who is the was the chief judge in d.c until yesterday issued a rulin that was very consistent with prior ruling she issued in the case i handled saying that that, if you use a lawyer to commit a crime, if you are using a lawyer to make a false representation to th department of justice, then yo can't claim attorney-clien

privilege. she went further, actually, in the case that i handled to say that is not even something covered by privilege because the statement that you are making was intended to b made to the department o justice so you can't claim privilege. so it is very important here that mr. corcoran can now be put in the grand jury an specifically asked who gave yo the information that you put i that certification that al documents were returned. if this testimony is that that came from donald trump, that i incredibly strong evidence o obstruction of justice i connection with the mar-a-lago case and then one final point is, that is a huge differentiato aider from everything that w know with respect to classifie documents that donald trump had, versus the documents that were found with the current president or mr. pens th former vice president. in other, words the obstructio

is something that we haven't seen any indication that exist in any those other cases >> andrew weissmann, thank you for that i am going to bring in suzanne craig. pulitzer prize-winning investigative reporter for the new york times thank you so much. for joining our breaking new coverage this morning. you've covered the ins and out of trump's finances more tha anybody. i want to pick up on something that you're times colleagu charlie savage said a minute ago in terms of the charge that trump could face. one being bookkeeping fraud. take us into that? >> well, what it is, and it is how they keep records in thi case wreck michael cohen mad certain payments to stormy daniels. those payments were booked int eternally as legal fees. that becomes, it is misdemeanor. but that becomes the underlyin crime that this will be buil on and it is not dissimilar t what we saw the trum organization went to trial in

guilty verdict came out. they also were falsified business records avoidin taxes. it is sort of an underlyin thing that they were sayin it's one thing it was. another i don't know if in addition to anything else yo had attorney but given everything that we have seen reported, and give your own reporting, do you think, or is it possible given all the evidence that is out there that the grand jury coul take a look at all of this given all of the testimony that they have heard >> i woul say that at this point anythin is possible. but if you are looking at wher this train is heading, you'v got a grand jury sitting you've got witnesses who hav

come in on the specific topic. the manhattan da > i think all of this is so fa down the road that it is marching towards some sort o conclusion by the grand jury where they will say, you can g ahead and indict an indictment will happen. i just want to say to you, thi is interesting this came out this morning donald trump said it is goin to happen on tuesday there is now new information including a story by m colleagues at the new york times that says, donald trum actually doesn't have firm information that it is going t be on tuesday.

that he is just sort of puttin a lot of the pieces together like we are on the show, and saying it can possibly happe on tuesday and i think just to sort o walk people back a little bit, it could well happen o tuesday. we don't know for sure and apparently neither does he >> rights. and to your point, you colleague charlie savage, wh was an earlier made that point that donald trump does not kno for sure that he is also speculating. we should also point out tha the manhattan district attorne of and greg has declined t comment on donald trump' earlier social media post from this morning saying that h would be arrested on tuesday then again, you know donal trump's finances inside an out. i am wondering what is the one thing we should be focused o when it comes to trump's finances because there's s much other stuff going on as i

pertains to get former president. >> well, it is interesting a lot of this comes down to hi finances and how he is doing straight bookkeeping where h says something is one thing, and it is another. and, where they are just out and out. in the case of the trump organization where there was the trial, they were avoidin talks. they were giving out one tim payments to executives whe they should have bee accounting for them throug their salaries so that taxes weren't paid you are just saying time and time again, there are so man ways into the stories about hi that now cross over into potential illegality tha involve his finances and wha he is doing. i am really keeping an eye o the evaluation case. it was one of the cases that what was marching ahead. and that is well here he wil submit statements to banks and he will say, he is worth it, his assets are worth x y and z and he will inflate that because he needs to get loans.

and then we got the tax man, h will deflate them because yo estimates tax bill that casey milley very solid i would say that both from watching it develop as in term of what this indictment will will be about, it is ongoing i think allen weisselberg, the chief financial officer of the country is part of the las year or so he participated i cooperated in the trial that returned a guilty verdict. he is in jail right now. he is at rikers. he is two out in april i am sure that they are leanin on him to cooperate in tha case, and if he doesn't, he ma be separately charged. that is still a live wire ou there. and something that i a watching right now we are going to be very focused next week on th stormy daniels case. and where it goes. but that one is also out there involving his finances >> suzanne, can we go back t

the valuation case because i completely forgo about that and weisselberg, being in jail was that a manhattan da case o was that the new york stat attorney general letitia james's case >> actually both that's a good question there's a lot going. on there is that criminal case that weisselberg was involve in and there was the guilty verdict that was returne against the company. that was a criminal case and then, separately the new york attorney general is bringing a civil case that i going to be going to trial i october. but then, you also have apar from all of that, that manhattan da is also looking a the evaluations. the case it went to tria didn't involve them inflatin assets that was an issue of how the were paying executives in th lavish perks that they wer giving out where taxes wer being paid allen weisselberg, he had an

apartment that was part of his employment it wasn't being counted for as compensation and there was a lot of shenanigans going on like that bonuses that were being paid out and improper taxes wer being reported but, there is another case tha will be going to trial it is a civil case, and that i the new york attorney general' case that will be heading to court in october and if that goes against the trump organization and the trump, that could be a fine of hundreds of millions o dollars. it is $250 million and that is a huge fine, and i is not tax deductible. it will really hurt him. >> pulitzer prize-winnin investigative prize winner for the new york times, suzann craig, thank you very much for being here today part of our big breaking new coverage that will do it for me today thank you for watching the saturday show. he defanged continues ou coverage after the break she will be joined by marshall donell, and we'll also b hearing from rachel maowdd's shortly. stay with msnbc for continuing coverage of this still developing story developing story

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march 18th, i'm katie fang filling in for this mornin from my friend, ali velshi we are continuing to follo breaking news this hour, and a new post on truth social thi morning. for her president donald trump is claiming that leaks from th manhattan district attorne office in a case that he wil be arrested on a tuesday he's calling for his supporter to protest

to be clear, this is just claim being made by the former president. there has been no official announcement from the manhatta da's office, and no othe indication that we know of o this hour that charges hav been filed against the forme president. and a spokesperson from th da's office declined to commen this morning in a statement following up on trump's posts, his spokesman also confirmed that they hav not received any notificatio that trump will be arrested or indicted and trump super pac set out press slamming manhattan d alvin bragg. this comes after a week of major developments in th manhattan da's investigation into trump's role in the hus money payment made to adul film star, stormy daniels. daniels met remotely wit manhattan prosecutors on wednesday. the same day that michael cohen, trump's former persona attorney and fixer, who's no the key witness in brad' investigation, venic testifying for a second day in front of the grand jury. other key trump white hous figure is like, kellyann

conway, and