overnight to plummet and make sure that it was ready for dinner the next day making enough out to serve 450 people! but here's the thing, she says quote, he wanted no glory for it, he was like, i just want to do this for you guys and give back in that way. she added, and by the way -- it was amazing. the best barbecue we've ever had. he is kind and he is cool! and we are grateful for dave grohl. and on that note, i wish you all a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late! i will see you at the end of tomorrow! ♪ ♪ ♪ >> tonight on all in -- >> we put a different view point, if you like. i'd say it was fair and balanced. >> the man behind the current gives up the game in sworn deposition. >> working class people, particularly in the countryside, they love it. >> from secret collusion with

the trump boy asked the firing top executives to appease election deniers, damning new revelations in the dominion lawsuit and the fox news struggle to undo the damage they've done. >> my man, donald trump-- >> then you'll never guess why republicans are suddenly finding reasons to bail on cpac. and is the supreme court about to strike down on student loan debt forgiveness? senator bernie sanders on that and much more, when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i am chris hayes. i am back and very happy to be so. while i was on vacation, i missed a shocking story that just broke out into the open. we knew some of the contours, i've been following it closely. but now, we got a whole host of damning new details on what may be the single most destructive institution in all of american politics. of course, i am talking about fox news. this fox door is the rare kind of story where the truth turns

out the be even more cartoonish really terrible than anything you could have possibly imagined from watching at the outside. as new information comes from two recent filings in the defamation case against a network, demonstrates in black and white what fox is, 100 percent a propaganda outlet. they are engaged in that faith, are at war with the truth that they know to be the truth. the final part is important. part of a conspiracy to steal 2020 elections with donald trump, proves time and again that fox knew that was all a lie. they knew that the election was not rigged. but they also knew that donald trump wanted to save lives. they knew that is based, that their viewers wanted to hear that it was. and so they say about airing those non-obvious falsehoods, in order to remain in the basis of trump's good graces and

making good money. they waged war against anyone who dared to stand in their way. on multiple occasions, both fox host and executive start to get their own colleagues fired, turfed out for not toeing the line at the big lie. in one instance, tucker carlson, went so far as to demand the company fire a reporter, someone much lower on the pecking order than he, who had the temerity to just fact check a tweet from donald trump mentioning dominion voting machines. outraged, he texted sean hannity, quote, please get her fired, seriously, what the f? i am actually shocked. ialy, like tonight. they took those complaints to executives and by the next morning, the reporter had to retreat, by the way, which is true. and another case, fox corporation chairman, rupert murdoch, the guy at the top and burn this entire empire called

for the firing of a longtime executive and we should note, loyalist, bill salmon, who presided over the deeply unpopular arizona call. you remember fox was the first network to call the state of arizona correctly for joe biden, which infuriated trump supporters, quoting again, rupert suggested, quote, maybe best to let bill go right away, which would be a big message for trump. he was indeed fired that same day. he left the alters and offering for donald trump. sammon put himself, quote, it's remarkable how weak ratings make journalist do bad things. i gotta say, i am not sure about the good journalist part that formulation, but this clearly did all sorts of bad things, above and beyond trying to get their colleagues fired from doing their jobs. the latest filing reveals that during trump's campaign, rupert murdoch, get this, provided trump's son-in-law, senior adviser jared kushner with fox confidential information about biden's ads along with debate

strategy. after a meeting, fox news ceo scott and -- decided to allow wild claims on air. they actively chose to give a platform to the liars denouncing election results. i should note that fox does not necessarily deny this stuff actually, they just say it does not amount to an actionable claim vis-à-vis defamation. that's not for me to say, but here is what i will tell you because people often ask me, what's the difference? what's the difference between what you do and what they do? between what you do and fox news? the answer is very simple, because the differences between good faith and bad faith. because when i get here in the studio and tell you what i think, i believe what i am saying. i don't lie. i have a perspective, which you know. i don't hide. sometimes, i make mistakes, we make mistakes, we're all human.

the difference is, i will never look into this camera and lie to you, and i won't toe a line that i don't believe in because i am worried about the stock price. that is exactly what the host of fox news did over and over. they knew the election was not rigged, that it was not stolen by the ghost of hugo chavez or weird italian satellites or robotic ai voting machines. they fed their audience those lies anyway. they're still doing it more than two years later. just listen to tucker carlson a sudden two weeks ago. >> there are so many unanswered questions, some are lingering. how, for example, did see now herman joe biden get 15 million more votes than his former boss, rock star crowd surfer barack obama? results like that would seem to defy the laws of known physics and qualify as a miracle. was the 2020 election a miracle? honestly, we don't know and

expect to get an answer to it tonight. >> honestly, we don't know, honestly coma, thinking of being honest or, honestly. what is their motive in all of this? >> well, they're terrified of losing viewers, and that means losing money and power, status and position. in some ways, and this stuff was so remarkable to me, i almost came crawling back to the studio to do it. in some ways, the most revealing part of the story is the sheer abject pathetic-ness of these people. they're cowardice, they're gravelling fear, a growing fear that means they will do anything at all to keep their audience, to keep the money coming, keep the power and prestige coming. rupert murdoch made it extremely clear when he explained why fox continues to give a platform to mike lindell, that's the pillow dude, the election conspiracy theories who founded the pillow company that is still advertising the network. , it's not red or blue, it is

green. mike lindell's money is worth more to fox than the truth. on the evening of the insurrection, in a text to his producer, tucker carlson laid bare the other quarter fear of fox. he wrote that donald trump is, quote, a demonic force, a destroyer, but he is not going to destroy us. what context here? it is important to remember who tucker carlson is. while he comes from an almost comically privileged background, he has washed out at multiple networks, had his show canceled, had to go back to doing weekend mornings on fox. that was tough. he is clearly terrified of failing yet again, of washing out the third cable network. and apparently willing to do whatever it takes to make sure it does not happen. we've seen these deeply pathetic fear when mr. brave voice of the every man, stick it to the woke establishment, is arguing for the firing of his junior colleague, the reporter who back-checked that donald trump tweet. and what is tucker really worried about?

quote, the stock price is down, not a joke. oh, the stock price, mr. bray populists, mr. scourge at the establishment? i'll tell you something right now that i never, ever in my entire life given a single seconds thought to the com cast stock price and sure as hell never sent a text about or demanded the firing of a colleague because the truth they were spewing my lower that stock price. my god, how craven can you get? i could only speak for myself, but that is not why i do this, not for the stock price. but as these filings make very clear, that is why fox does what they do. all of these new details prove that the people of fox are following one of the most reliable recipes for truly destructive, dangerous, cruel behavior, and it is this: they got a lot of power, but they're terrified about losing it. they think it might all go away.

their status is under threat, in fact, that is the core of their reactionary mind to begin with. while fox has managed to keep a hold of the base, despite the challenges coming from new far-right network newsmax and oan, and one point, who are even beating them during the whole election aftermath, the fox people know at some level that they are following that base as much as leading it. donald trump was a big obvious example of this when he ran for president the first time. remember, fox tried to knock him down, good old rupert murdoch, clearly, it did not work. trump beat them. they all bent the knee. they tried again after he lost the 2020 election and told our viewers, a little bit with the arizona call, it's over, he lost. amazingly, amid trump's third bid for the presidency. they still have not learned their lesson. 8 years, we're seeing the same dynamic play out. i don't know how much fox you watch, how much the murdoch

empire you're sampling, but they are really intent on finding a trump alternative. they pump up any other possibility but trump. on some level, it makes sense. really, who are they kidding? look at the people who run the network. suzanne scott, the ceo, the honor talent like tucker carlsen. rupert murdoch, his son lachlan. do you think their social networks consist of typical fox viewers? do you think these people spend their time hanging out and rural, red america, working class folks who live in places like east palestine, ohio? are those the kind of people joining them at the country club's are hanging out with him, the super bowl boxes? of course not! they are totally out of touch with these people, to people that watch the network. and at some level, they know that, and it's stalks them, wants them, always worried that too much distance will grow up between them and their multi million dollar councils and the

viewers out there in the countryside, and so sure they are, but they go through the same song and dance. the murdoch empire clearly putting its thumb on the scale for florida governor ron desantis, potential republican nominee, who so far does seem to have the best shot of beating trump. so there is this recent fawning new york post profile that infuriated the ex president, over to the fox nation streaming channel. i saw a whole special devoted to former republican presidential candidate jeb bush, praising desantis. >> there are people in public life that are check the box politicians, and then there are others that want to serve, and governor desantis is one of those. when the storm, when ian hit, it was devastating. it wiped out southwest florida. they're looking for someone to give them hope that things will get better. the fact that he could announce, for example, the bridge to the

sanibel sland could be bill in record timing and hope within ten days is pretty remarkable. >> is this from desantis's opportunity to run for office? >> i think it is. he's been an effective governor. who better to do it then somebody who's been outside of washington, who's governed effectively, who i think has shown that florida can be a model for the future of our country? >> just to be clear, what i just aired is not a campaign ad. that was on the fox streaming services, just like, here's an interview with jeb bush but about desantis. it's very obvious what they're doing. then there is this morning episode of fox and friends. one of the upsets when they go out and eat breakfast with the viewers. this sums of my entire argument, so perfectly. please watch as brian kilmeade seemed desperate to find somebody backing around the centers for president in a florida diner. all right, lawrence, first off, much a diner, i got a question for you, ready? all right, 2024, who's pumped up for the election? [applause] rapid fire, who is your man,

who's your woman? >> my man, donald trump. >> donald trump. >> donald trump. >> who is your man? >> donald trump. >> i'd say trump. >> a lot of trump fans. >> trump and nikki haley. >> donald trump and nikki haley. >> so far, a lot of donald trump. i see governor desantis. what about president desantis? >> i like it, i like it. >> who's your pick? >> oh gosh, i don't know, trump or desantis. they both work. >> you're right in the middle? >> yes. >> are you pumped up? >> i am super pumped up. >> i feel like we need a little bit of a break from election election. >> maybe if i go to the woman in the dissent this year, she'll say desantis. and then she equivocate's. poor guy, that's a tough

assignment, brian kilmeade, had there! anyway, rupert murdoch, you've built this, buddy. you made this. we've all been suffering the consequences. fox news helped to form this base for decades. they've certainly up for modern american conservatism in all of its present reality, but they also do not control it, and they know that. and now, that central fact on display in the dominion funds, that central fact is the root of just what is so destructive and dangerous about our politics right now. helps lower a1c, and it's covered by medicare. before dexcom g6, i was frustrated. all of that finger-pricking and all of that pain, my a1c was still stuck. my diabetes was out of control. i was tired. (female announcer) dexcom g6 sends your glucose numbers to your phone or receiver without painful fingersticks. the arrow shows the direction your glucose is heading: up, down, or steady, so you can make better decisions about food and activity in the moment. after using dexcom g6, my a1c has never been lower. i lead line dancing three times a week, i exercise,

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rapid fire, who is your man, who is your woman? >> my man, donald trump. >> donald trump. >> who's your man? >> donald trump. >> i'll take trump. >> a lot of trump fans. i see governor desantis, what about president desantis? >> i like it, i like it. >> who's your pick? >> oh gosh, i don't know, trump or desantis, i am either or. >> who could've predicted when fox invited voters down to the diner, that's what you will get. we are now in the eight maga phenomenon, and the conservative elite is now behind a push for rhonda scent this of 24. does elites like tucker carlson, sean hannity, rupert murdoch, are just as removed from their bases they have ever been and willing to do anything to get into the good graces, including, knowingly promoting lies about the 2020 election on air.

>> if you're trump voter and you suspect this election was stolen or rake, you're on to something, the 2020 presidential election is not fair. no honest person would claim that it was fair. >> the dominion software, i know that there were voting irregularities, tell me about that. >> that's to put it mildly. >> the company is called dominion voting. dominion came under heavy fire after allegations that the machines caused thousands of votes in one michigan county to be switch from donald trump to joe biden. >> jamelle bouie is in appease columnist of the new york times and stuart stevens is a author of it was all a lie, how the republican party book became donald trump. >> stuart, i want to start on this distance between professionals to run conservative politics,

republican politics and the actual base of the party. here is my quick thesis, i think 60 is a go, let's say, someone like paul ryan, paul ryan was of the people that was his base. paul ryan is like, a guy who is like a conservative dude in a medium sized town who knows the kind of people devil for republicans and paul ryan. these days, someone like paul ryan lives in the show totally removed, from the base of the republican party, as is true of everyone on fox and everyone in the universe. creates the entire strange effect on how to behave. what do you think on that thesis? >> i would like to know about donald trump paid jeb bush to go out and endorse ron desantis? >> seriously, cynthia, i was like, this is a nightmare! >> it was like, read the room, dude. look, donald trump is going to win the nomination. donald trump is what the republican party wants, and people need to just accept that. fox did not create the republican party, the republican party created fox. it's just a market response to

what the republican party had become. i think that the party took a really different turn after barack obama was elected president. it used to be a conservative party. fox was conservative, but within some framework of left and right american politics. what has become now is the party has lost faith with democracy. they feel that democracy itself has failed and--because their candidates have failed. if you really think back, they did not think barack obama was legally elected, don't think joe biden was legally elected. the less legally elected president was george bush. this is why i say the republican party has become an autocrat movement because when you lose faith in democracy, you start looking for an alternative, and the only hope that they have, because they have been overwhelmingly been donald trump's base is to change how we vote, and that's what they're working on. >> there's also this

ideological aspect, jamelle, and over in about this a bit, which i think is interesting too, rupert murdoch's politics on things like social security, medicare, social insurance programs, paul ryan's politics, sean hannity's politics. all of these peoples politics on this, they don't like it. it's a big huge social democratic goverment program, that some of the base thinks, right. no one and two it's better than this stuff then donald trump, the sort of secret weapon in 2016. here it is today, on a street -- his fake twitter, going off to dissent this, saying, great poll numbers are springing for your former president, meaning ron disanctous and biden. i guess people are finding out

that he wanted to, all caps, cut social security, raise the -- likewise of medicare, what the big cuts. he is a wheelchair over the cliff kind of guy, just like his hero felt politician paul ryan. the fox news retake destroyer, who led mitt romney's campaign down the tubes. cuba's all want america first. it's unhinged, but he senses something real here. >> right, so ron brownstein has been describing the divide in the republican party in terms of just being familiar to everyone who remembers the oas election, white check and beard check. donald trump is the beer truck candidate. the guy does not drink, obviously. he represents an has brought in all these blue collar voters. he brought in these low propensity voters that don't necessarily turn out. they have reshaped the republican base even more. someone like ron desantis, these other candidates, really to represent the more traditional college educated hire republican voter. for as much as they are trying to very clearly trying to appeal to the trump voter, i still don't think they really got it, especially true on questions of social insurance, questions on government programs, even medicaid.

these are voters who may benefit from medicaid expansion, and republican politicians, and elites especially, are so incredibly hostile to these things. i don't think they quite figured out how to triangulate these things. and every time, as he just demonstrated. trump is going to be hitting on this constantly. it is going to be emphasizing the fact that he, at least rhetorically, it's not for any kinds of cuts to medicare or social security or these big social insurance programs. i think this is an advantage, and represent this major disconnect between republican elite class and the voters that managed to attract over the last few years. >> to me, stewart, the dominion of the filing shows that they know it to some level. the whole money train depends on shrinking that distance, on

not letting--on catering to this audience. whatever they want to give them because if it will all go away, they fear, the stock price will go down, oh my goodness, the stock prices. if they don't do that. >> when i worked for candidates, we'd look at fox news as an extension of the campaign, and when you will talk to these people over there, they never really believed very much what they were saying. they did not really care. it was not like sean hannity's life would change based on who would be elected. >> [laughter] >> it's kind of like they wanted the republicans to lose because they did better in opposition, so what's happened here, i think, is that trump gave people permission to be their worst selves, and they embraced that! what a shock! i thought that i think trump people more races, but he made

it okay to be racist. when i get into this argument with republicans, when you said there are 70 million righteous -- first of all, we are 70 million races in the country, so don't worry about the. i think when you vote for trump, he thought to be a racist, but you have to be willing to think that something is more important to you than having a versus president. they just embrace that. i always thought that if you did what trump did, you would lose the voters you gained, the slope propensity voters, that you would lose them at the other and, the college educated voters, and that's what happened in 2016 right up to the comey letter. does voters came home. i think that will be the test that those voters will stay with trump again. >> finally, jamelle, there is a symmetry here that is important. there is complicated politics on the democratic side. one of the things that you think is different is because it's a multi racial coalition, because it is institutionally different, there's nothing that has a single solitary effective fox does. there are other institutions,

whether it's the black church, but the it's the labor unions that have really grounded institutional relationships with the phrase constituencies that are not just fox and rupert murdoch in a boardroom like, what do we have to feed this people? >> that is exactly right. and treat, joe biden as president is a testament to the fact. there are these big ideological differences within the democratic coalition. the fact of the matter is, it is such a diverse coalition, that any successful politician within it is going to have to appeal to all parts in order to win anything in the national officer statewide office. that only is not the case of the republican party but fox acts as this truly unusual institution in the republican politicians are responding to fox, not so much to voters but to fox. voters are responding to fox, fox is responding to voters and all of the incentives are

around getting the attention of a group of voters and for entertainment purposes, but not for governing purposes or coalition building purposes. so what we're seeing, i think we're seeing right now with some of the republican presidential hopefuls, certainly with the house is so many republican politicians in the leads are in this profound way disconnected, not just from many other voters but from the median voters, from the typical voter. they are engaged in a discourse of politics that is frankly incomprehensible, if you're just a person who turns on the tv every so often to see what the news is, and maybe you're upset about inflation. there should be republican politician who should be able to speak to these things, and it is extremely telling that there simply isn't. i think fox is a big reason for what to us. >> they're all in the fox news extended universe, jamelle bouie and stuart stevens, thank you both, appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> still ahead, it's already primary season four republican presidential hopefuls, and most of the front runners are

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>> tomorrow's a kickoff for the premiere annual gathering of cpac, the conservative political action conference, which for years, has been a must go event for

conservatives. like the comic-con of right-wing politics. this year, we are seeing republican luminaries who had previously stayed away. like ron desantis, mike pence, kevin mccarthy, even party chair ronald mcdaniel, not because the event platform is extremists or hosted the authoritarian leader of hungary shortly after he lashed out against race mixing in europe, no! cpac is tarnish this year because it's leading organizer has been accused of groping a man on the failed herschel walker campaign. the former staffer for walker's senate campaign alleges that matt schlapp, the guy you see there, but fondled him against his will in atlanta in october, according to the daily beast who broke the story. schlapp denies the allegations. the washington post now reports that its review of call logs techs and videos provided by that walker staffer and his confidence broadly matched his account of schlapp making unwanted sexual advances after buying him drinks at two

atlanta bars that night in october. for some republicans going to cpac every year, it's become a chore, not one party upper sums of the situation this year, we all want an excuse not to go, and schlapp give it to us. tara setmayer worked as a republican communications director on capitol hill, a senior adviser for the lincoln project, and she joins me now. i guess, first, the question is, what do you think this is about? it is notable and the run up to a primary presidential year when i think these events tend to have the most cachet, precisely because people are trying to chase after those kinds of voters, that so many people are not going this year. >> well, there is a couple of reasons, one, they are scared to death of donald trump. let's not forget that cpac pretty much made donald trump and accepted him into the conservative mainstream, even coming to cpac for many years and then as president, he was the draw.

so the idea that a ron desantis is or mike pence not going to cpac because they're scared of trump. desantis is running around and giving interviews and giving a book tour to everybody else, but he's not going to cpac? that's a pretty weak move for a governor that seem to have all the swagger that the establishment thinks is going to be the savior that takes on trump. he can't stand to even take him on in his own environment there at cpac, so that's a crystal ball to me as well. and poo mike pence, we already know why he does not want to go there because a lot of the people who -- were part of the crowd that wanted to hang him on january six, so honest people. >> i don't know if that is literally true, i suspect that there are some actual individuals who may fit into both categories, but right, i guess that is the obvious point, why had i not realize that? it's trump's room, and if they go there, it's going to look like brian kilmeade in the diner, running around, except there will be a person like, who wants the vote for me, and everyone is like, we don't like you, give us that guy. we want that guy. >> that's exactly right, and

anyone who has ever questioned if donald trump is still the titular head of the republican party, we'll get a look at the lineup at cpac. the idea now -- i used to go to cpac as a conservative in college every year, it was a go-to event. i went to almost every cpac 2015. i've spoken at cpac events before when i was a host effort working on immigration and federal law enforcement issues. i used to love cpac! and then it turned into this really ugly environment where i would not be safe to walk into cpac now, not that i want to go now, but i would not be safe there. anyone who questions donald trump or questions the hypocrisy of the cpac crowd now, accepting trumpism, accepting this nationalism, it's become the event of failed dictators, dolts and democracy bowers. when you have kari lake and marjorie taylor greene as the

headliners. this is the big to cover that had the ronald reagan's and encourages people at the, stars of the conservative movement, whatever you think of them now. this is who their headliners are now, no under ron desantis and other more quote "establishment people" don't want to. go >> shyer bolsonaro, fresh off his defeat at the subsequent coup attempt essentially -- >> in hungary, orban, they lifted up orban. something else that is interesting about this too is the absence of fox news. i listened to your epic monologue at the top of the hour, where you nailed it about fox. the lincoln project has been pointed this out for a long time, how fox news is one of the most dangerous democracy, existential threats in this country. rupert murdoch and what they've done, knowingly misleading their people off for power and money. not that this dominion case has come out, and we heard what rupert murdoch himself has said, we know the stalwarts at fox

news, the hannity,'s and talkers, none of them believe this bs, but they did it to mislead their viewers because they needed their writings. the lincoln project is debuting and at tomorrow where we are geo fancying cpac and mar-a-lago, and those other places where people who listen to fox or watch that, they would not see this because fox news has a ban on covering what's happened in dominion. we are making sure that we get to those folks who are at cpac in other places because normally, fox news would stream cpac end to end on that channel. they would have tucker and laura ingraham, headliners at these things, walker's absent this year, they are no longer sponsors. guess who is? newsmax! >> that's a great point. i do think that the allegations against matt schlapp play some role here. there is also reporting that the organization that he runs is in turmoil, exodus of more than half its death since 2021.

than half its slap since 2021. again, schlapp denies the allegations, but the washington post did some thorough reporting. we'll see how that all plays out, but i can't imagine that helps given all this? >> no, of course not, listen, the important part of this is that, again, goes back to the scene tape before about why certain people would be upset with donald trump before. had nothing to do with the insurrection, not with the election denying, did not have to do with the kids of ages, all the other transgressions of trump over the years, the lying and decency, no, no, no, it's because it cost the midterms. it's a similar situation here at cpac. matt schlapp credibly accused here, no no no, it has a thing to do what he turned cpac into, it has to do the fact that oh well, maybe he did a couple of things wrong, we don't want to be seen with him now. schlapp is the swamp and liaison to the swamp, now look what they turned cpac into. i'll be curious to see how that turns out. >> all right, tara setmayer, thank you very much. still to come, will the supreme court decide whether to halt president biden's student loan forgiveness plan?

bernie sanders joins me on the wide ranging reverberation decision ahead.

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court heard a challenge, the federal student loan forgiveness plan announced by president joe biden last summer. now, if biden's plan were allowed to take effect, it would wipe out the entire student debt load for about 20 million americans likely transforming the financial conditions of roughly 20 million more, at least according to white house estimates. student loan forgiveness has been advocated in progressive policy circles for years, it was championed by independent vermont senator bernie sanders in his 2016 bid for the white house. it has now become at least a provisional reality under president biden. but, republican led states, individuals, think tanks, they are challenging the plan. at a rally outside the supreme

court as the justice we're hearing our arguments, senator sanders spoke about what forgiveness means for borrowers. >> they are drowning in this student debt. in america you should not have to face financial ruin because you want a damn education. >> i'm joined now by senator bernie sanders, chair of the health education and labor pensions committee. and author of the new book, it is okay to be angry about capitalism. senator sanders, what is your read of where the situation stands with student loan forgiveness after these mornings arguments? >> well, i think we have some concerns about some of the questioning at the court level. but we will see what happens. i happen to believe as i said this morning that young people should not have to go deeply in debt, put themselves in financial distress for

committing "the crime" of getting an education. that is totally absurd. we want the best educated workforce in the world. and we should not penalize millions and millions of young people for trying to do that. i hope very much that the supreme court understands that what biden did was perfectly legal. and does not overturn that action. >> you, know one of the things i've heard from folks about the specific policy is that this is, that even if they support what the president did and in for giving these loans. it is sort of a onetime thing. right? there is a broader problem here. >> right. >> tuition is crazy. >> that's right. >> something has to be done going forward. even where the court to allow this to stand. [inaudible] >> chris, this takes me to why i wrote the book in the first place. and that is, look, we live in

the richest country in the history of the world. do we really think that hundreds of thousands of bright young people should not be able to get a higher education because they can't afford it? do we really think that 45 million americans often young people of color need to go 50 100 $200,000 in debt because they gelotte an education? do we really need a situation in which we have a childcare and pre-k situation which is a total absolute disaster when everybody knows zero to four are the most important years of human development. why? in the richest country in the world? when you have more income and wealth inequality. where we have more concentration of ownership. why are we allowing this to take place? >> you know, it is interesting, you highlight something about the sort of paradox or the way that american capitalism is developing over the last two decades. which is that there are lots of things that have gotten cheaper, right? flat screen tvs, smartphones,

all of this stuff, right? he filler-corn of what would make a middle class life, that you can only home, that you could've health insurance they could send your kids to college. all of those have gotten much much much more expensive overtime. and harder and harder for military middle class and working class folks. >> chris, there is a reason why even before covid life expectancy in the united states is in decline. and the reason is that tens of millions of working people are living under enormous stress. >> yeah. >> they can't afford rent, they can't afford health care, they can't afford childcare, they can't afford groceries. and the question again, what this book is about is saying really why? why do we have more income and wealth inequality than we have ever had in the history of this country? why with new technology are we not creating a situation where all of our people have a decent standard of living? >> i want to ask you about an announcement that happened today which the president announced a new nominee for u.

s. labor secretary, that would be julie suh, works at the department already and she was confirmed, i, think by a narrow 50 to 47 but. i know that the u.s. department of labor, labor rights are very important in your view. your reaction to that announcement? >> well, i don't know julie personally but from everything i have heard she is a very competent individual and would make an excellent secretary of labor. >> i want to also ask about something else that has been in the news, i thought you might have something interesting to say about this. obviously in the wake of the train derailment in east palestine, ohio, there's been a lot of back and forth about the causes of that. about the effects of it. but -- an interesting point in the washington post, talking about the sort of populist rhetoric coming from j. d. vance of ohio and marco rubio in florida. sort of the question of whether you can put some meat on those bones in a bipartisan way. asking whether workers are overstretched as a result of the emphasis on efficiency, precision running that we have seen over other national goals such as public safety. do you think there might be some room for some kind of look at better train regulations? safety regulations? labor regulations just for

folks working on those railroads? >> well, as you may know, when we try to make sure that workers in the rail industry who had zero paid sick days, unbelievable. the companies are making record-breaking profits. we had six republicans joining every democrat. so i think that opens the possibility of bipartisan efforts. >> where do you see your role in the senate this year? you have got a senate majority, but there is going to be an enormous big budget fight between what happens in the democratic-controlled senate, and what happens in that rittenhouse? >> i think if we are smart we are going to win that fight. i think we have already won a major victory when republicans retreated from their very clear attempts and their efforts to cut social security and medicare. they backed off that because they understood that that is exactly what the american people don't want. in fact, what we have to do is expand social security benefits,

because so many of our seniors are hurting. so republicans backed off. if we are smart and bring to the floor serious legislation that will improve life for the working class in this country we are going to win that debate. >> i saw news today that the house freedom caucus are preparing their own budget i thought to myself, that is good. put it out there and let's debate where the priority should be. >> you got. >> it thank you, senator bernie sanders, his new book is out, it is okay to be angry about capitalism, out in book stores everywhere, thank you, senator. >> thank you. >> thank you be angry about capitalism" i alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. >> i'm really happy you're back. >> did you miss me? >> i did miss you. and it's likeid terrifying to n have you around. and ali was doing all that dangerous reporting in ukraine. >> i have to say he did absolutely