that he is trying to avoid her inquiry into his corporate taxes. she will be, i suspect, vigorous in pursuing this. >> you know he is going to pay, it right? he is going to a sell up on us -- he is going to make his followers give him money and he is going to use their money. thank you both very much. chris hayes starts now. ris hayes starts now tonight on all in, -- scientists have a name for this kind of coup. -- >> new text messages and new filing from the january six committee, tonight, congressman jamie raskin on new revelations about the secret service, why mike pence refuses to leave the capitol with them and we are learning from thousands of text messages from trump's chief of staff, that showed refresh some fading memories. >> did you advocate for president trump to impose martial law as a way to remain in power? >> i don't recall. >> then, big new fines for

donald trump as he is held in civil contempt in new york state. and what we know about the top tier biden officials making a big show of support and war torn ukraine. all in starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. we have a whole host of explosive new developments about the attempted coup on january 6th. and a member of the house investigative committee, congressman jamie raskin will join me to talk about all of it. because today, as you might have seen, we learned about a trove of tax to and from trump's chief of staff mark meadows, dating from election day 2020, to the last days of the trump administration. and they are among the thousands of tax that meadows voluntarily turned over to the january six committee before he abruptly stopped cooperating and then refused to testify. meadows has since been held in contempt of congress and we are still awaiting any ruling or notice from the department of

justice about whether they will bring criminal charges against him. these text, published for the first time today, reveal most about how many prominent republicans attempted to aid in the coup. they also establish definitively that some republicans, including marjorie taylor greene of georgia, former energy secretary rick perry, have covered up their own involvement. more on that later in the show as well. but first, there is a queue story about january 6th that has been, to a certain degree, hiding in plain sight all this time. and we are learning more about it in ways that i think that just something new, a newer dimension, to what happened on that day. it is the story of how tensions rose between donald trump, the president, and his vice president, mike pence, as trump attentive to get pence to do his bidding. and overturn the election for him. effectively, unilaterally and lawlessly. now, we know the basic facts about the moment when pence's refusal to comply and subvert the will of the voters came to

a head. but to the significance of that scene has taken a much darker tone as we have learned more details. so, on the morning of january 6th, trump made one last appeal to pence at the huge rally at the ellipse, though it sounded, frankly, more like a threat. >> mike pence, i hope you are going to stand up for the good of our constitution and for the good of our country. and if you are not, i will be very disappointed in you. i will tell you right now. >> we then watched as the mob at trump's urging, march to the capitol where they broke in and ransacked the building. they assaulted police officers, brown to the halls, chanting, hang mike pence! hang mike pence! some of them, even a -- a noose outside the building. and as the danger became apparent, the secret service evacuated the vice president from the senate chamber. he was presiding over the proceedings as stipulated in the constitution and american

law. we know, thanks to reporting from washington post journalist -- that pence first went to his ceremonial office at the capitol where he was protected by secret service agents, but vulnerable because the second floor office had windows. and those windows could be breached. thugs had gained control of the building. pence refused to requests from the agents in charge of his detailed to evacuate the building saying, quote, i am not leaving the capital. again, rutger, the last thing -- people attacking the capitol to see his 20 car motorcade fleeing. that would only vindicate their insurrection. the third time the secret service asked, it was more of an order than a request. they moved pence down a staircase to a secure subterranean area, where his armored limousine awaited. abc news reporter describe the scene there and that's up to rainey and shaver as he saw it in official white house photos that pence has not allowed to be published. >> he was in a loading dock, and underground parking garage,

beneath the capitol complex. no place to sit. no desk, no chairs, no anything. he was in a concrete parking garage. and with his family. this is the vice president of the united states and he is like hold up in a basement. one of them is as chief of staff, mark sure, showing him his phone and it is the tweet of trump saying, mike pence didn't have the courage. this is the guy who like fled from the rioters. and trump is saying he did not the courage. and you see it kind of looks like pence is grimacing, but you can never really tell. >> now, listen to jamie raskin, member of the january six committee, who has been investigating this for nine months, describe what happened next. >> so, when his secret service agents, including one of them who was carrying the nuclear football with him, would chased out by these neo-fascists and they ran down to some still undisclosed, mysterious place,

and the capital, he uttered what i think are the sixth most chilling words in this entire thing i've seen so far. he said, i'm not getting in that car. >> that is the moment it all came down to, after all the pressure from trump and his allies. to get mike pence to do their bidding and keep donald trump in office. the insurrectionist bob had breached the -- and they want to take him away from the capital, but he refuses to go. why does he refuse to go? well, pence's own chief of staff says the vice president did not want his evacuation to be the indelible image sent around the world. >> he said, i'm not leaving. and the reason he said he's not leaving us because he said, he did not want our adversaries across the globe to see a 15 car motorcade fleeing the capital. he exerted of norma's leadership under enormous pressure. and i think he, again, despite efforts to evacuate, he said, i don't want that visual for the

world to see. i'm going to stay here. >> that is what he says. this is an image he doesn't want to project to the world, so i will stay here for symbolic purposes, essentially. but pence was not the only one who did not want to leave the capitol complex that day, despite the tear unfolding. for example, democratic congressman -- of arizona, described another immediate tactical reason for staying put. >> i saw a bunch of buses and they were buses to evacuate us. let me tell you, in quds, when you leave the capitol, you have lost. and so, i started texting every member that i could in all of our tax chains, like, do not leave. if they tell you to leave, do not leave. we are safe here. if we can almost bosses, there's no guarantee will come back. >> i've been thinking about that. if we can on those passes, there is no guarantee we're coming back. who is happening, it's a legislator sleeve, all bets are off. so, occupying the physical space of the building in his

estimation, who is actually key to repelling the coup. that is very different from of the pr ramifications of symbolic image of the motorcade. that is the darker interpretation of what was going on when mike pence refused to leave. right? he wasn't just concerned about how the image of the vice president thing with look to the world, no, he was actually also concerned about maintaining control of the government. of the american constitutional order that his role on january 6th was to preside over the peaceful transfer of power and if the riotous mom, propelled by donald trump, though -- where he had that duty, he may not have been able to return to finish the job of overseeing the peaceful transfer of power. now, that would've allowed the coup to actually take place. and that interpretation, the far darker one, the more dangerous one, the while we came close one, that

interpretation looks more and more likely as new facts come to light, particularly about the secret service on january 6th. so, on friday, new testimony released by the committee released that a secret service official warned mark meadows about potential violence ahead of january 6th. and the role -- is reporting that the committee appears to be examining that official named anthony are nato. a source says that trump gave him a big white house jobs -- in part because of his loyalty. now, he previously helped coordinate trump's march through lafayette square, for the photoshop of the bible. -- on january 6th, he was overseeing secret service movements. -- report that when pence was in that secure underground area of the capita, he told keith kellogg that the vice president's security detail was planning to move to join base.

kellogg replied that, you can't do that, leave him where he is that. he has got a job to do and i know you guys too well. you will fly him to alaska if you have a chance. don't do it. well, i don't know. that sure sounds like he was a trump loyalist in charge of trump's security movements. trying to help trump do -- building where he was to oversee -- congressman jamie raskin lays it up clearly. >> the secret service agents, who presumably are reporting to trump's secret service agents, we're trying to spirit him off of the campus, and he said, i'm not getting into that car. he knew exactly what this inside coup they had planned for was going to do. this was not a coup directed at the president. it was a coup directed by the

president against the vice president and against the congress. >> that is why pence's words in that moment, i'm not getting in that car, we're about so much more than just the image he would send to the world. it appears they were about the fundamental desire from the ex president and his loyalist to, again, essentially in that moment, rupture the entire constitutional order in order to install donald trump by force against the will of the people. as promised, i'm joined now by congressman jamie raskin, member of the january 6th elect committee. congressman raskin, first, let's start with those facts and my interpretation of them. so, what you said at georgetown the other day really caught my eye and a lot of people's eye. what did you mean? why do you find those six words chilling? what is your understanding, months into this investigation, of the meeting at that moment? >> well, trump had tried multiple different efforts to overthrow biden's majority in

the electoral college. they are trying to intimidate the election officials, like secretary -- in georgia. that was caught on tape. everybody heard trump saying, justify me 11,000 votes. that's all i want. that didn't work. there was the plan to try to get the military to seize election machinery and to around the election. they ran that through the department of defense, the department of homeland security, the department of justice, which is what led to his aborted effort to install a new attorney general over the attorney john. there were all of these different efforts going on. and then it finally came down to everything focused on mike pence. that was the hail mary play, or what they were calling, the green bay sweep. they would throw everything in their. at mike pence. and they were going to try to pressure him and coerce him into rejecting electoral college votes.

in a way that would set the stage for a failure of a majority in the electoral college. and then, kicking the whole thing into the house of representatives, under the 12th amendment, for a so-called, contingent election. so, that was the whole thing. and when we got to the floor, at 1:00 on january 6th, i was very attentive to what was mike pence going to do. and he ended up sending us this memo, which went out to everybody in congress, saying, he couldn't do what donald trump was asking him to do. but the thing that really blew my mind is when we started hearing the crowd chanting, hang mike pence. hang mike pence. and it just struck me as so bizarre that you would have a pro trump mob outside, chanting against the vice president. and how would they know that mike pence was now the proper target of their wrath? how would they know that they were supposed to be mobilizing this effort against the vice president?

but those orders were clearly coming from above. and it went through not just the political coup side of that operation, but the violent insurrection side of that operation. so, when i heard that he said, i'm not getting in that car, that was utterly chilling to me. those are six of the most chilling words in american history to me. because they were trying to remove him from the situation and of course, there had been this effort to try to get trump just to invoke martial law under the insurrection act. >> the motion for summary judgment talks about this meeting with this individual -- with meadows. i just remember mr. renato coming in and saying, there could potentially be violence on the sixth. and meadows said, all right, let's talk about it. my question to you is, what is your committee's understanding or your understanding of the significance of that warning or mr. ronaldo's role? >> well, i can't say, because

we really have not discussed that yet and we are not there yet, but the committee is very focused on the outbreak of violence and what were the intimations of violence? it was the planning for violence that took place among some of the most domestic extremist groups, including some of those that have been prosecuted and some of the people who have decided to cooperate and turn to states evidence. we are trying to put that together. this was a marriage between and inside political coup at the highest levels of the administration, with street thugs and hooligans and neo-fascists. >> it is striking reading some of the tax and we will talk about some of those from the chief of staff. it is very clear that mark meadows is essentially the intermediary for much of this discussion. he is the person that has next to the president. his own son, desperately texting mark meadows to try to get to his dad. so, his testimony or lack thereof, his refusal to comply

with congressional subpoena, seems more and more significant in the context of what we are learning. what is your understanding of the significance and the legal ramifications. >> all these thousands of tax make the argument for why we need mark meadows to come in and testify, to explain precisely what his role was. what was their attitude towards the violence on the streets? white was their plan? how far were they willing to take it in terms of trying to get pence to reject electoral college votes from arizona, pennsylvania, and georgia. and perhaps nevada and new mexico to. essentially vapourizing the votes of millions and millions of americans. but was the plan there? and on what legal basis did they proceed when so many lawyers involved, including

attorney general, william barr, told me that their arguments were bs. there was nothing there. there was no election fraud. there was no electoral corruption. and the constitutional arguments being, they were completely absurd. so, on one basis that they proceed? we are waiting for former chief of staff mark meadows to come in and testify about it. that is why we filed our motion for summary judgment and it is clear that the courts have taken the position that these claims of executive privilege are just fraudulent and specious and there is nothing there. and there is an overwhelming need for the congress of the united states, the representatives of the people, to get all of the information about what took place in the january 6th assault. >> congressman raskin, i want to ask you, if you can, to stay with us. because we are just getting a chance to take into the text messages. you and the committee have had them for months. we want to talk about stunning revelations we have caught so far, the public ones, with

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2300 text messages from trump white house chief of staff mark meadows. ranging from election day, up until the inauguration. this huge tranche of messages was initially released in the january six committee, and then obtained by cnn. and there's a time here to dig into, for example, meadows texted georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger twice

trying to get him on a call with the white house. the first text was back in november, the fall of coming in december with roethlisberger apparently hiding from his message, quote, mister secretary, can you call the white house switchboard? your voice knows full. of course, the white house eventually reached raffensperger in january, and during that infamous phone call where trump pressured him to find 11,780 votes to flip the election. a phone call those recorded and released. on november 7th, former secretary of energy rick very texan meadows dubious claims of fraud saying, we have that interim program that can clearly show where the fraud was committed. this was the silver bullet. of, course perry denied that he texted medals of about overturning the election. except, he signed this text, rick perry. i november 22nd, the wife of clarence thomas, who of course will be ruling on many of the legal matters pertaining directly to the election, she texted medals regarding the

truly bonkers conspiracy theory of trump loyalist sydney powell. she was the woman that claim that there was voting machine, and she was such an embarrassment of the white house listed herself from her. when they started distancing themselves, justice thomas's wife wanted to know why, quote, trying to understand sidney paul distancing. >> meadows, she doesn't have anything or at least you won't share and if she does. >> thomas, wow. >> on december 31st, marjorie taylor greene, who has been in office for two weeks, implored meadows, who was naive in an office yet, implored medals to help with the coup attempt. she said, quote, we would like to organize for the sixth. elected me of joe to rudy giuliani again. we don't get to speak with him long. we need to lay out the best case for each state. each state there is presumably in referring to the states trump lost. the driving force mind the attempted coup.

on january 5th, the day before them selection, publicans are growing grossman jim jordan forwarded medals of previously reported text outlining that same strategy. how to seal the election. a bunch of people in trump's orbit are converging on this. we know metals responds, who are, i've pushed for the, not sure was going to happen. i've pushed for this, that is, i've pushed for the coup. i've pushed for the illegal overturning of american democracy done solomon by force. then there are the texts from during the insurrection. which made clear, republicans were very concerned with the mounting violence. of, course we already know trump's own son, donald trump jr., he's gotta condemn the scrap. >> -- well, tell them to go home, it's their chief of staff mick mulvaney said, trump east of the snow. marjorie taylor greene, who was the previous week was flooding for the coup, and she said i was just told there is an active shooter on the first floor. police all the president to

calm people. this isn't the way to solve anything. but congresswoman greene clearly change her perspective in the following weeks, perhaps most damning, with a text that came after the insurrection. on january 17th, 11 days later, just days before president biden was being sworn in. she said, quote, in a private chat with only members, several of saying the only way to save the public is for trump to call for martial law. i don't know on those things. i just wanted you to tell him. they stole this election, we all know. it will destroy our country next. please tell him to declassify as much as possible so we can go after biden and anyone else. notably, greene misspelled martial law, there. she also seems tougher gun all about that texas, it's at least based on her testimony last week. >> miss greene, did you advocate for president trump to impose martial law in a way to remain in power? >> i don't recall. >> you're not denying, it noticing your member. >> i don't recall. >> joining me today is

congressman matt raskin. you are a constitutional law professor prior to being a member of congress, and like me, a lover of the 14th amendment of the constitution, and the reconstruction amendments. and of course, one of the stipulations in the 14th is, essentially, a bar for officeholders to participate in an insurrection. that's not being tried in courts in several cases. that was the civil trial that she was out in the specs about. do you think about what those text say about whether or not she meets the constitutional standard of having participated in an insurrection? >> well, the two-step process, you've got to present him and whether or not there was an insurrection or a billion within the meaning of section three of the 14th amendment. then you gotta determine whether a particular person participated in it.

i think there's overwhelming evidence that there was a violent insurrection, and, fact we've got a bipartisan robust vote defining a legislative fact that there was an insurrection against the union. so, i think that won't be tough to show, but then you have to show any particular case, whether a person was involved or not. i think, the courts are going in the front ways, they're teaching these broadly. but i think the resistance comes from those courts that are just saying, this can be decided at the state level. it's really up to congress to set up a process for dealing with this. and, so that will be, undoubtedly, one of the things that he's got to deal with before the session is over. >> there's a few things in these texts. one, i just want to hammer home an obvious point, we were all watching that happen. you were there, those of us who are not there was watching it

on tv. this is not a far off event. and everyone knows freaked the heck out. it was scary to watch, those scary for the people inside. and just that obvious fact those exactly would it look like, which was a violent mob threatening the constitutional order. it's very apparent in the texts from all the republicans desperately trying to get mark meadows to get the president to call off the dogs. >> right, well, look, the first effort was to assert that this was really antifa that did it. and you can see, running through this texts, we haven't released those texts, and we don't know the providence of whatever this leak was. but in any event, it's very clear, a lot of people were trying to blame it on the beginning. and that is very much part of the story, but then, after that happened, the assertion was that this was just a wild

demonstration as called by donald trump that got out of control. it was really a lot more than that because the insurrection and violence can only be understood in conjunction with this attempt to pressure and coerce mike pence to reject electoral college votes and kicked entire context into the house of representatives for a so-called contingent election. where, i repeat, the gop had a majority, and they knew they had a majority of the state delegations. and that was the ultimate destination for the whole thing, they were hoping to sanitize the insurrection and the coup by having a contingent election where they could legitimately say, we've got 27 states, although you subtype wyoming because i thought liz cheney would've won with that. we have 26 states that are voting for donald trump. so he is legitimately sees the presidency, and that could've led to anything from martial law to civil war the riots. who knows where he would've fled. >> i should note, jason miller,

there's a bunch of texts on antifa. this is as this is happening saying, call me crazy, but ideas for two tweets for potus. bad apples, likely antifa or other agrees leftist, infiltrated today's peaceful protest over the fraudulent vote. you have marjorie taylor greene and louis gohmert echoing this as this was happening. on the marshall la front, i can tell how much -- would do you make about? how serious where the conversations? when you know about where they were? marjorie taylor greene is not just picking that phrase, incorrectly spelled as it is, out of a hat. >> there was a lot of rambling about martial law within the gop caucus. before january 6th. there were people writing things about how martial law is in fact been invoked multiple times throughout our history. and, if you look at what

happened on june 1st of 2020, when donald trump and loyal barr unleashed a paramilitary police riot against black lives matter protesters in lafayette square, it was clearly very much within the air that donald trump and his advisers were breathing. they were willing to use violent force against protesters. there were also willing to use protesters with violent force against the government. all in the service of making sure that donald trump survived in power. that was the whole goal. >> final question, and quickly, will the republic hearings on all this? are we gonna have this sort of telling of this to the public on television? >> so, in june, we are planning to have exhaustive hearings where we take, you know, nearly

1 million records to acquire, and testimony from within 800 people without the testimony of trump's inner circle. but, we're gonna be able to think all of this and try to take it together in a coherent story explaining best we can but happen. because our democracy, the people have the right to know about it was taking place with our government. and, we have to preserve our democratic institutions going forward against coups and insurrections, and suppression of the votes, and some version of electoral process. >> congressman jamie raskin, thank you so much during time with, us i really appreciate it. >> thanks so much for having me, chris. >> when we come back, more the republican members of congress expose in the middle east texas. we will talk about the fallout, next. l talk about the fallout next next on your biggest project yet. worth is giving the people who build it a solid foundation.

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ton of new developments on the january six investigation including dozens of tax that have been released and published. we will sort through it all. betsy woodruff swan, who has been scrupulously covering the january six committee -- and they both join me now. betsy, let me start with you just on the tax that we are seeing today. again, we know that there are 2600, i think, roughly, dozens

and dozens now made public. i imagine this will continue. what is your take away from what we are learning from right now? >> my big question is the extent to with really important conversations aren't in these text messages. of course, we don't know that we have a perfect completes, everything that select committee has. but we do know that there is now a really interesting, greatest hits batch out there. and in that batch, to my knowledge, unless i have omitted it, we are not seeing tax between mark meadows and pence's staff. we are not seeing tax between meadows and the outside legal team. sydney powell and rudy giuliani. we are not seeing text between pence and any -- it's possible that's because those facts do not exist, but we cannot know for sure. and the committee cannot know. until meadows turns over everything that he has. in my view, this helps makes

more sense of why the committee is pushing so hard to force meadow to comply with their subpoena. if this batch indicates what we don't have, it tells us a lot about the frustration. >> great point. the guardian notes that there is a break, i think december 19th or 30th, of the meadows tax. we don't know it has been turned over or not. what do you think about the nature of the evidentiary record, at least as we know it up to this point, and in terms of what the committee has or has yet to obtain? >> i think the complete report will be fascinating. and i cannot wait for the public hearings, which i consider really important. but i think that some of what we have seen in the last few days may explain why the department of justice has not yet indicted mark meadows for contempt. and it may be because these documents show him to be an

active participant in a coup. and maybe they are looking at him more seriously for a substantive part and for obstructing congress. i think he could be guilty of both and that it is very important to work between the congress and the prosecutors to make sure that, for example, you don't give immunity to someone who the department of justice wants to indict, which could happen, where congress says, we really need his testimony. their role is very different. they have to pass laws that will protect us from anything like this happening again. they must do that because this, as you have said, is as close to losing democracy as i hope we ever come. so, i want them to pass the laws. but they can do it without his testimony if he is about to be indicted for a crime. >> i also wonder. it was interesting to see marjorie taylor greene on the stand at that civil trial. partly because, again, there is

been such a weird memory of what that day was like. about how significant it was, how scared people were, and about what was actually being plotted. who is being plotted with the overthrow of the constitutional system and the overthrow of american democracy. and at least in her denial being so cagey and amorphous, it seemed there was at least some awareness, lingering over her perhaps the divisive council, about exactly with the stakes are in this. >> yeah, chris, i can tell you with total confidence that i have never called for the imposition of martial law. you would think that is the kind of thing people would remember not ever having said. but we have a congresswoman on video saying -- acting like, oh i don't know, i don't think so. and that is telling of course to see her handle these questions in that particular mode. in terms of just the way that they played it out, congressman raskin made a comment earlier that i think is worth

amplifying. the fact that this crowd that swarmed into the capital building new as they were going in that they had a collective mission of trying to kill the vice president. that really tells you the degree, not just of anger, but of specificity under which they were operating. the fact that you had a mob that was simultaneously a completely insane mob, but also, kind of mission focused. that itself is a fascinating thing i had not heard someone say before and i would expect to hear him say more on that. >> just to elaborate on what you said before about the importance of these hearings, i don't want to raise expectations too high because i think this is different than the watergate hearings for a bunch of readings -- raisins. but, you want, there should be political consequences for attempting to foment a coup. as of now, there is not been a ton of them and i wonder if you

can -- >> i think it can be reversed. i am very worried when congressman raskin says the hearings will begin in june. we will already have had a number of primaries that have taken place. that might have been affected if the hearings had happened soon enough. so, i would like to see them start sooner and have this story be out there already. i remain a maybe pollyanna, but i really do think that there is so much evidence that we have seen publicly and i am sure that the department of justice and the committee both have much more evidence than we have been able to read in the press. there is a crime that has happened. and for anybody to get away with it would really be the end of the rule of law. and so, i remained very optimistic that there will be action taken to hold people accountable and that means and doubting people -- >> thank you both very much.

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russian fitted ukraine, u.s. cabinet officials visited the country. even the secretary of state anthony blinken and secretary of defense lloyd austin were traveling into a war zone, the u.s. tried to keep the chip on your apps. sending them on separate planes to poland before they boarded a

train from southwest and pull into kyiv. but, the whole thing was nearly over before it began after zelenskyy announced that they were for that they would be coming, prompting a last-minute scramble to determine where there was still safe for them to go. it was the time so, and the pair was able to travel. adviser at the security council, matt, good to have you. why was the significance -- boy was a signal actually some u.s. cabinet officials and to kyiv? >> well, two things, chris. it was important to have a conversation about the events on the ground for secretary austin and secretary blinken to hear directly from president zelenskyy and the rest of the green national security team. i think aluminum date on the ball fence on our end. the return of diplomats to ukraine. and of course, the latest range and the security assistance. but it's also symbolically important. it's not lost on anyone for us to send a message that we are there in person, that we support ukraine.

and to mark the really historic victory that the ukrainians achieved in defending you. and the fact that kyiv still stands, much against the wishes and the names of the russian military. >> the current u.s. ambassador, i believe, slovakia's been nominated to the post in ukraine, if i'm not mistaken. i'm a crazy, or is it weird that it's taking this long to nominate an ambassador? >> it certainly does take time, sometimes longer than we would expect to go through the validation process to get an ambassador. but we've had a career official in place who's had the right conversations, and significant high representation to the ukrainian government, and don't forget, president biden talks directly to president zelenskyy all the time. secretary blinken talks to his counterparts, and there's been no shortage of conversations between the ukrainian and the u.s. governments are bracing or levels. >> one of the announcements over the past few weeks is $700

million more direct military aid. we know tanks are coming in from poland. there's been a wide host of military equipment and weapons being sent from the u.s. government. can you characterize the position of the biden administration on what they think of a feasible outcome of the worries, which is to say, some say this is an attempt to bleed russia dry. the mckayla sprinklers possible. and there are others who say, no, this is an item three green to actually effectuate a military victory, and essentially digestible and story. what is the goal here of the biden administration would these arms? >> so, our goal is number one, we want ukraine to win. one of the be successful in the battlefield as they were in kyiv. want them to be successful everywhere and repel the russians from their country. and number two, we want to swear to be a strategic failure for russia. and that has been the goal of our policy. and that's why we have long weapons, who search weapons and keeping tell them the fandom

selves, and then each of those weapons have changed over time, as the nature of the battle has changed. and number two, we have imposed severe sanctions and other economic measures, passport control, and others, on russian delimited's ability, number one, to finance this war. and a limited stability to project power long term. so we targeted our measures at sectors of the russian economy that we know are important for president putin's ability due to project power. the defense sector, aviation sector, shipbuilding, because we know these are ways to limit his ability not just to win this war, but he uses power to threaten and coerce other neighbors in the region. >> quickly, is there tangible evidence that those sanctions are having the desired effect? >> yes, there absolutely is. if you look at the fact of the russian economy is expected to decline 15% this year, and that of the russian central bank came out just last week and said, we are now the point where the sanctions are really about to have an impact because russia is going to be denied the ability to source things

like chips, semiconductor chips, another materials that he needs for its manufacturing sector. the sanctions were always intended to have an effect over the long term. and we expect they will. >> all right, matt miller, from national security council, thank you very much. that is all in for this evening, the rachel maddow shows right place right now, good evening rachel. good evening, chris, how is your vacation? >> it was amazing. let me just, say quick plug, hot take, grand canyon, truly all inspiring. it is true with they say, you can't overhype it. doesn't capture it and photographs. you get there, it is a profound and overwhelming spiritual experience. totally so great. loved it. >> i completely agree. i will say, the first time i ever went to the grand canyon, i was driving cross country, i've been up for several days, at least, it felt like that at the time. i was like, grungy and an showered and hungry and cynical and it was like a weird time of the morning and