joining me today >> remember, even if you have to tow it in. peter navarro hit all the marks there, didn't he fa fauci, an obvious sociopath. you have the chinese, the communists, the people's liberation army. and even as the fox anchor pointed out, there's a lot of questions out there. you see, in our business, that's what you say when it's just too messy to say that your guest just lied on live tv and that's going to do it for us this wednesday night look at the time with our thanks for being here with us, on behalf of all my colleagues at the networks of nbc news, good night alexandria ocasio-cortez is gr going to be here with us live tonight. i'm looking forward to speaking with her in just a moment. one of the highest s est profili

rights attorneys in the country will be here with us, as well. we're going to start tonight, though, with a little bit of an update on that bananas story that we had to unexpectedly shift gears to cover at this time in the show last night, when "the new york times" published late breaking news about the republican congressman who is probably the most high profile fanatical trump supporter in congress, republican congressman matt gaetz. "the times" last night published the news that congressman gaetz is under criminal investigation by the u.s. justice department for very serious allegations of child sex trafficking. now, i swear i'm not going to spend more of my life than i need to following every twist and turn in this somewhat nauseating story, but because we gave you the backstory and context on this last night, i feel the need to update you

tonight. because the sheer bizarreness of this story continued to advance across the course of today and tonight at what appears to be an accelerating pace. this started off weird, it's getting deep space weird all right. first of all, there's this guy local republican elected official in seminole county, florida. his name is joel greenberg his -- he's relevant to the story because his own considerable criminal troubles appear to have at least dovetailed with this newly reported criminal investigation into republican congressman matt gaetz. joel greenberg was elected tax collector in seminole county, florida, in november 2016. as we discussed last night, mr. greenberg basically then immediately sat out on a course of behavior that started off like a fire hose of scandal and ended up like a tsunami of scandal. i mean, i can't even cram all of

it into another lengthy news segment here, but just in rough cron cloj call order, looking at the high points, local investigations and audits found that starting basically as soon as he took office he spent millions of taxpayer dollars on contracts and payments to his personal friends and some business partners, including six different people who had all been in his wedding several months before he got elected six members of his wedding p papart just happened to get hundreds of thousands of dollars in contracts and deals from the local tax collector's office right after their buddy joel, the groom from that wedding they were in, took over that office what a coincidence six people from the same wedding, huh a county audit found that mr. greenberg spent tons of taxpayer money from the office's budget, like over a million dollars, on guns and ammunition and body armor and drones drones

like a little tax collector army or something he and all the people who worked in his office under his leadership all started wearing guns at work again, this is not like a department of the police -- it's not even, like, an office that goes after poachers, people who keep too many fish or something. these are people to whom you pay your license fees. but they all started strapping guns on their hips at work and also wearing badges that, if you squinted, looked a little bit life sheriff's badges. they weren't, they were tax collector badges, but still. mr. greenberg himself was soon thereafter investigated for impersonating a police officer when he used his tax collector's gun and badge to pull over a woman he accused of speeding he put on flashing lights in his tax collector car and pulled her over because he thought she was going too fast he's the tax collector

and there's a lot more it does go on and on and on. i mentioned last night the allegation that brought federal authorities to mr. greenberg's door and initially got him arrested and charged with multiple federal felonies, which ultimately led, we think, to this -- the inviolvement of congressman gaetz, the initial allegations, the initial federal charges against mr. greenberg came after somebody in seminole county had the nerve to run against him for tax collector in seminole county. mr. greenberg, according to prosecutors, then sent nine letters to the school where this guy worked, the guy who was going to run against him, greenberg sent nine letters purporting to be from students accusing the guy who was going to run against him of inappropriate sexual activity with students at the school where he worked. now, the allegations were completely made up but it ended up being not a

problem for his opponent, it ended up being a problem for mr. greenberg. because what happened was, federal authorities ended up getting brought in to investigate this here's how "the orlando sentinel" wrote it up. greenberg mailed the letters to trinity prep that claimed to be written by students. school officials first turned the letters over to the seminole county sheriff's office but investigators determined that the letters weren't actually written by students, they were written by an adult. because the letters were delivered through u.s. mail, the case was then turned over to federal investigators. assistant u.s. attorney roger handberg said that joel greenberg's dna and fingerprints were ultimately found on the nine letters sent to the school where his opponent works so, nine different letters, all purporting to be from students, all purporting to document

terrible, terrible sexual misbehavior by this guy who was going to run against joel greenberg. joel greenberg leaves his dna and fingerprints all over those letters according to prosecutors. a criminal genius at work here, obviously, if what prosecutors say bears out. he also, according to prosecutors, set up fake twitter and facebook accounts in the name of the same guy running against him and in the name of other people that worked at that same school. those fake accounts had their own fingerprints on them they were ultimately traced back to an ip address on a computer at joel greenberg's house. he used his own computer to set up the fake accounts in the name of his opponent in which he said his opponent was like a segregationist and a white sue premmist and a terrible person yeah, genius at work not difficult to trace those back to joel greenberg's house, according to prosecutors but the problem with this criminal genius at work in these alleged crimes is that because of the way these things were

done, federal law enforcement was brought to bear here this ended up not being a local issue, this is not handled by the local sheriff's office, this is handled by the u.s. attorney's office, these are federal charges. that leads to his first indictment but then it gets way worse from there. they turn up to arrest him on the first indictment, when they turn up to arrest him, it turns out that he has a whole ton of fake i.d.s in his backpack, in his car, in his wallet that's going to be more federal charges. they ultimately charge him for stealing people's identities by stealing driver's licenses turned into the tax collector's office and then using them to make multiple fake i.d.s what does he want to use the fake i.d.s for well, that is contained in the description of the next set of charges that he faces. after they do a search of his electronic devices, they decide that what he is using the fake i.d.s for is sex trafficking of at least one minor and other

sex-related crimes and so he faces multiple succeeding federal indictments, as these charges continue to mushroom in florida, in seminole county nbc news reported today that that latter part of the tax collector guy investigation, the part where they looked at his electronic devices and decided that what was going on with all of these fake i.d.s and this identity theft that he was doing through his office, that he was using those fake i.d.s to facilitate criminal sexual acts, including sex trafficking of underage persons, that part of the investigation into these tax collector guy ultimately led to what are now the newly reported details of this federal criminal investigation into republican congressman matt gaetz, who is also accused of sex trafficking of a minor now, mr. greenberg, the seminole county tax collector guy and

congressman gaetz, are reportedly close there are multiple social media photos of them together. and now federal investigators are reportedly looking at whether congressman gaetz may also end up charged with sex trafficking of an underaged girl but while we were absorbing that detail of the story here, right, not just that these two guys are -- one of them facing charges, one of them facing similar allegations that have led to a federal criminal investigation, but the connection of the sex trafficking charges against the tax collector guy to the sex trafficking investigation of the congressman, while that was sinking in today, that the investigation of gaetz may have come out of what they discovered with this tax collector guy, while that was sinking in today, big surprise in this story, maybe it shouldn't have been this much of a surprise, it shocked me today, the tax collector, joel greenberg, was hit with yet another federal indictment what timing. since he was initially arrested and charged last summer, again,

it all started with the stalking and identity theft stuff around the guy who was running against him for the tax collector's office, since his initial arrest on those charges, federal prosecutors keep adding more alleged crimes federal prosecutors have added three more super ceding federal criminal indictments, including this latest one today, for a whole new set of alleged crimes we hadn't heard of in this new driment just filed today, the tax collector guy is charged with embezzling more than $400,000 from the tax collector's office according to prosecutors, he used that money to buy both crypto-currency and office autographed sports memorabilia things signed by kobe bryant and michael jordan why? also, and this is incredible, the indictment today also alleges that the tax collector guy, after he was initially arrested and was out on bond, while he was out on bond, he committed a whole new crime.

prosecutors say in this indictment today that on top of everything else, while he was out on bond, after being arrested and charged with the first slew of federal crimes, he decided that would be the perfect time to start a whole new chapter of his alleged criminal behavior, that would be the perfect time to bribe someone who worked at the small business administration so that person would process fake loan applications for him so he could use fake businesses to apply for fraudulent covid relief funds. and so they charged him with that today, too. the fraud stuff and the bribery of public officials in order to get it done. seems like a gem, right? you add it all up, in the four successive federal indictments that this guy has faced since last summer and he's now facing 33 federal felony charges. thus far, mr. greenberg has plead not guilty to the charges that he's had a chance to plea to his attorney has not come

meanted on the latest ones, other than to say that he wasn't surprised by them. but as i said, this is the criminal case in florida that appears to dovetail with what's going on with trumperific republican congressman matt gaetz. we don't note about the exact linkages nbc is reporting that part of the investigation of joel greenberg that led to sex trafficking charges against him is the same investigation that led to a sex trafficking investigation of mr. gaetz we don't know if greenberg is cooperating against congressman gaetz. politico today fleshed out the details about trump attorney general william barr barr was reportedly briefed not once, but multiple times on the federal sex trafficking investigation into congressman gaetz. politico reporting today that part of the reason attorney general barr was briefed on it a lot is because he was very concerned for himself.

he didn't want to accidentally end up at an event where congressman gaetz might be while this investigation in congressman gaetz was ongoing. politico reporting that at least one publicly announced meeting between then attorney general bill barr and republicans on the judiciary committee in congress got called off, bill barr pulled out of it after he said he would go do it, and the reason he pulled out of it is because congressman gaetz rsvped he would atetattend so bill barr decided he would not attend, because he was briefed on the investigation on congressman gaetz. abc news is reporting tonight that -- reporting today that the investigation including allegations that he had a sexual relationship with, quote, at least one minor, at least one underaged person, but maybe more than one abc is also reporting the investigation is looking not

just as the congressman's alleged conduct in florida, but federal investigators are looking at his alleged conduct in other states, as well now, congressman matt gaetz has denied any sexual relationship with anyone underage tonight, he has continued to advance his claim that his rich family in florida was targeted with -- with what he says was an extortion effort in parallel with this investigation. he said his family was extorted by somebody claiming it would help congressman gaetz survive the scandal if his rich father funded an effort to try to find an ex-fbi officer, robert levinson, who has been missing in iran for more than a decade the idea was, you fund the rescue effort for levinson if it turned out to be successful, then maybe congressman gaetz would look like a national hero because his family funded it and so then he wouldn't be prosecuted for child sex trafficking?

yeah, i don't know the fbi is reportedly investigating that bizarre alleged extortion scheme as well as the child sex trafficking allegations against congressman gaetz, but these are separate matters, right whether or not somebody was trying to pressure congressman gaetz and his family over how much trouble the congressman appears to be in, it really does appear regardless of whether or not that extortion effort also happened that the congressman is under serious federal criminal investigation for sex trafficking of at least one child in at least one state. and that investigation started months ago and was approved of and regularly briefed to the highest levels of the trump justice department including trump's attorney general bill barr oh and just one last point on this, and this is something to watch, because i'm sure this has to change, i'm sure this is a mistake. the republican leader in the house of representatives is of course congressman kevin mccarthy he today was asked about this

reported justice department investigation into congressman gaetz. kevin mccarthy said he didn't know anything about it, said he hadn't been able to talk to congressman gaetz yet. but he was asked, if congressman gaetz does get indicted, if he does get criminally charged in this case, would that be cause to remove him from his committee assignments and his other responsibilities in congress if he gets charged with child sex trafficking, are republicans in congress going to take him off his committees and stuff kevin mccarthy said, actually, he would only plan to remove matt gaetz from his committees and his congressional responsibilities if he gets convicted of child sex trafficking. a federal indictment for child sex trafficking, that apparently would not be a big enough deal and they would leave him in place, let him keep being a congressman doing all his stuff. really i think that might have been a mistake. i would not be surprised if kevin mccarthy cleans that up in coming days. we do have quite a bit of experience in recent years of republican congressmen being

indicted while in office hi, congressman collins, hi congressman hunter you can make an easy list of all the republican congressmen who have been indicted while in office, because trump pardoned them all before he left office as president but because we've got a lot of recent experience of this, the standard even with the republican party used to be that once you got indicted, well, now you're under federal criminal indictment, you get relieved of all your congressional responsibilities even if they don't at that moment expel you from the congress. apparently -- that is how they have dealt with other republicans who have been indicted but according to kevin mccarthy, that's not the plan in matt gaetz gets indicted for child sex trafficking. apparently that's fine with kevin mccarthy if and when that happens. just have to wait to see if he gets convicted i can't imagine that he meant to say that but we'll see. we will -- we will cross that bridge when we hopefully never come to it ah so, like i said -- i feel

responsible to update you on how that story has evolved from last night. i didn't think it could get weirder. but it is a truly bizarre story evolving with accelerating weirdness over the course of the day today. if it gets even weirder over the course of this hour, i will try to ignore it unless i have to. also today, "the new york times" broke the news that state prosecutors in new york have sub bpinaed the personal bank recors of a man named allen weiss weisselberg. he appears to be under intense pressure from new york state prosecutors to tell them what he knows about the allegations of tax fraud, bank fraud and insurance fraud that that prosecutor's office is pursuing against president trump and his company. "the times" also reporting tonight that state prosecutors are still looking at the hush money payments scandal the campaign finance felonies

for which trump lawyer michael cohen went to prison and in which former president trump was himself described by sdny prosecutors as individual number one. according to "the times" tonight, state prosecutors in new york are reportedly investigating how those payments were laundered through the trump organization's books and whether any touchsuch laundering itselft be a prosecutable trcrime. that reporting just adding to the increasingly tall pile of legal worries faced by the former president as we reported last night, he is now facing three federal civil lawsuits for him allegedly inciting the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol. the latest one filed by two u.s. capitol police officers who were injured in the attack. also, within the last day, a new york state court let a defamation against the former president go forward this is the case brought against him by a former contestant on

"the apprentice," who says he essentially sexually assaulted her. the president, because that case is going forward in new york state court, the former president may now end up having to be deposed under oath in that case that case was stalled for a long while. it is now moving once again. also in the last day, the former president lost a high profile bid to enforce nondisclosure agreements that he made all his campaign staff sign in 2016. a former trump campaign staffer named jessica denson has made sexual harassment and discrimination claims against the 2016 trump campaign. as a separate matter related to that, she litigated the validity of the nondisclosure agreement that she and other trump campaign workers were made to sign in 2016 well, she won that part of it. a federal court has now said that the nda is not binding on her. so, in terms of what that means both for that individual case and for other people associated

with the trump campaign or potentially even the trump white house who want to talk but feel bound by that nondisclosure agreement. if the federal courts have decided that those things are toilet paper that is going to open up a whole new chapter of potential -- guess what, in terms of the former president. that's just, like, the last 24 hours. that's the late 24 hours of news from trumpville. how's the post-presidency life going for the former president in his most loyal minions? i mean -- man. and then, for contrast, there today is the new president, president biden, unveiling what he hopes and expects to be the signature legislature accomplishment of this presidential term. a huge new investment in american infrastructure. one of the most popular issue areas among the american public.

investing in the stuff we all use. what biden is proposing is a $2 trillion investment. roads, bridges, airports, ports, school buildings, the electric grid, the water systems, broadband nationwide and more. the biden administration and indeed the president himself today in a major speech in pennsylvania calling this the biggest investment in in infrastructure in this country since world war ii and it looks like they've got a path to get it passed. and it will be even more popular than the covid relief bill that they have passed, which is not only wildly popular among the american people left right and center, it is driving 70% plus approval ratings on the issue of covid specifically, which is driving record high approval ratings for this president overall. that's what the biden administration learned from the first big thing they got through congress that, a, you can get it done and b, the american people don't care that much about the process

by which you get it done, as long as you can passing something that takes a big, bold, practical approach to a big problem that we are all facing in common turns out the american public like that. what they are going back for now as they go their second big legislative lift is something that is even more popular than the covid relief bill was, when you break it down in its constituent parts. but it's a big ask congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez of new york is going to join us on that next. stay with us tenderness...much better. my psoriasis, clearer... cosentyx works on all of this. four years and counting. so watch out. i got this! watch me. real people with active psoriatic arthritis look and feel better with cosentyx. cosentyx works fast for results that can last. it treats the multiple symptoms of psoriatic arthritis,

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it's not a plan that tinkers around the edges it's a once in a generation investment in america, unlike anything we've seen or done since we built the interstate highway system and the space race decades ago in fact, it's the largest americans jobs investment since world war ii it will create millions of jobs, good paying jobs it will grow the economy make us more competitive around the world. promote our national security int interests. and put us in a position to win the global competition with china in the upcoming years. it's big, yes, it's bold, yes. and we can get it done i'm convinced if we act now, in

5 0 years, people are going to look back and say, this was the moment that america won the future historically, infrastructure has been a bi partisan undertaking dwight hieisenhower, a republicn built the interstate highway system i don't think you could find a republican that doesn't think we have to improve our in infrastructure i truly believe we're in a moment where history is going to look back on this time as a fundamental choice having been made between democracies and autocracies. you know, there's a lot of all cats in the world who think the reason why they're going to win is democracies can't reach consensus any longer it's a basic question. can democracy still deliver for their people can they get a majority?

i believe we can i believe we must. >> i believe we must president biden speaking in pittsburgh today, unveiling his proposal for nearly $2 trillion in investment, in infrastructure in this country. and most of the first day stories about this newly revealed plan are talking about the price tag and the politics of how it can get done and also the big ticket headline items here, roads and bridges and school buildings and a sturdy electric grid for the first time in our country's history and a half million electric vehicle chargers across the country. but even beyond that stuff, there's other pieces inside it that we found today are being celebrated by people who are actually surprised and delighted to find their needs being addressed as part of this big bill for instance, $45 billion in this bill to replace all of the lead pipes around the country in our water systems. you know more than viewers of any other show about the lead poisoning crisis in flint,

michigan well, there's lead pipes and lead surface pipes all over the country. this would replace 100% of the nation's lead pipes and service lines. also, a $400 billion investment in expanding access to what's known as home or community-based care and in layman's terms, that means home health aids or a room in a group home if you are an elderly or disabled person in this country, we have a gigantic backlog for those kinds of services. the wait list is 850,000 people long, which means right now, elderly and disabled americans face waits as long as five years to get the services they need. this would not only expand that access, it would increase pay and improve working conditions for the people who work in this incredibly critical -- critical -- but underfunded and often out of sight big portion of the american economy. we reached out today to one of

the country's foremost disability advocacy groups to ask what kind of impact this investment could have. their senior director of public policy there told us, quote, it is major with major in all caps and two exclamation points them thinking that would make this big of a deal, that group in particular, that means it's a big deal biden's plan also includes $20 billion to redress historic inequities in transportation in infrastructure that means in blunt terms, undoing wrongs that were committed in the creation of a previous generation of in infrastructure, things like tearing down predominantly black neighborhoods to build highwas instead. it would reconnect neighborhoods. biden's plan is a big plan, it is full of big ideas but a lot of the most interesting stories are in the granular details, but

again, this is just his opening gambit this is what he's asking for what happens to it now is going to be in the hands of the congress joining us now is one of the most influential members of that body, new york congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez congresswoman, great to see you. thank you for making time to be here tonight >> of course, thank you for having me. >> so, as i know you saw the president's speech today and we've all been reading about and learning about what the president is asking for in this american jobs plan, what do you think of it? >> you know, i think that the vision that president biden and the administration has laid out, you're right, has surprised a lot of us in a positive way and in the detail and the thought that's here, the scope of it, is really encouraging, except i think the how, that $2.2 trillion, $2.25 over eight

years, i have serious concerns that it's not enough to realize the very inspiring vision that biden has advanced and so i believe that those of us here, especially as progressives within the democratic party, we know that there is so much more opportunity here and in order for us to realize this inspiring vision, we need to go way higher and that's what's going to help us actually deliver on this really promising and inspiring vision that the president has laid out today >> and when you say that it should be bigger, do you want the numbers associated with t the -- the things that the president says he wants done, just to get bigger, just to do more of the things he's saying he wants to do, but whole new categories of policy that you would like to see folded into this bill that aren't there now? >> i think there's -- there are a couple of areas there. one is that, first of all, you

know this is $2.25 trillion over eightyears the huge numbers are hard to understand for context, we passed an almost $2 trillion covid relief package that's supposed to last us one year with some provisions lasting up to two years. so, the $1,400 stimulus checks, that big package that we felt in our lives, we deployed on a shorter timeline so, i think that we need to really have some shorter timelines, some urgency, greater urgency in this package and i think that some of these investments need to be greater so, for example, let's take public housing this plan, this build back better plan, it advocates for a total national investment of $40 billion in public housing nationwide sounds great, right? except when you consider the fact that the new york city public housing system needs $40

billion alone just to get up to code during the wintertime, people run out of heat, they don't have hot water, they don't have electricity sometimes, there are homes in people's walls. the new york city public housing authority needs $40 billion alone just so that its residents can live in dignified housing because they've been underinvested in and starved, frankly, by republican congresses and administrations for so long. so, for us to actually invest in national public housing in infrastructure, we need to do way more in order for us to deliver on this promise in terms of a price tag there now, in terms of scope, i think, again, i really do have to commend some of these investments that are in here, and some of these details, like exclusionary zoning, are things that progressives have been talking about for a long time. so, there is a lot of credit there. but on climate, we can also go

more, we can go deeper and we can have a more integrated approach in how we push on this issue. again, i do commend the admini administration on the scope, but in order for us to meet that vision, i have real concerns that $2.2 trillion isn't actually going toget us there. so, we're going to have to make deeper investments to actually renew public housing, to repeal the fair cloth amendment, to increase our housing stock in the united states, you know, and this, at the end of the day, is one of the greatest sources of income inequality in the country. it's rooted in housing and real estate >> in terms of how this is going to move, obviously, this is the biden administration's second big legislative lift and i think we have to think of them as a living, breathing organism that learns lessons along the way clearly of, i think a lot of what was going on with the covid relief bill, they were thinking of things they wish they had

done better or handled differently under the obama administration now, i think they're going to be approaching this infrastructure bill learning the lessons they just learned for what happened with covid relief. and it was, i think, a surprise to many in the beltway when joe biden said, for covid relief, he wanted $1.9 trillion, everybody assumed that would get whittled way down and some much smaller package would get passed it was a little bit, but it was basically a $1.9 trillion plan you're saying on this one, president biden may say, listen, today in pittsburgh, i want $2.25 trillion over eight years but when it lands in the house, you and your colleagues may say, $2.25 trillion is a starting point, but this needs to be a bigger bill, this needs to get larger before the senate even gets a look at it. is it fair to expect that may be the way this goes? >> absolutely. you know, if we could wave a magic wand and progressives in the house were able to name any

number and get it through, which obviously isn't the case, but if we're looking at ideals and what we think is the actual investment that can create tens of millions of good union jobs in this country, that can shore up our health care, our in infrastructure, our housing and doing it in a way that draws down our carbon emissions to help us get in line with ipcc standards, we're talking about realistically, $10 trillion over ten years. and i know that may be an eye-popping figure for some people, but we need to understand that we are in a devastating economic moment. millions of people in the united states are unemployed. we have a truly crippled health care system and a planetary crisis on our hands and we're the wealthiest nation in the history of the world so we can do $10 trillion. that is a thing of political imagination, however, even when you break it up into those two

parts, what's important to remember is this isn't just a progressive versus a moderate issue. you have some of the most conservative members of the democratic caucus like joe manchin that have even signaled support for a $4 trillion in infrastructure plan, which is double in the numbers. and so, i think that there's some key dynamics that have changed here, which explains some of this one is that there's a genuine built power in the progressive caucus within the democratic party but also just progressive ideals in general in the country that, you know, that power has built very significantly and we are in a fundamentally different political moment but on top of that, is that even when you look at more at what comprises more moderate views in the caucus, you know, economic populism that works and centers working class people is popular. and i think republicans kind of run on that aesthetic and i

think democrats, you know, they talk about it, but we actually are about it, so -- but i think that the country's shift, people are really starting to understand that these issues are no longer fringe progressive demands, but they are consensus builders and so we need that direct investment, we need to build our housing stock. we need to stop making it just an investment for corporate, you know, for cop rations to gobble up our housing stock and an actual thing that we use and live in and enjoy and don't have to fear that our kids won't be able to afford a home, a place to live. and make a family. and so, those kinds of investments, that's what this is about, not to mention rural broadband, not to mention roads, bridges, mass transit and a national -- truly national system of ev vehicles and a full

electric -- federally electric fleet. >> new york democratic congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, it is a real pleasure to have you here. thank you for helping us understanding. >> of course thank you so much. >> all right, much more ahead tonight. stay with us

look at this today's print edition of "the new york times" included this full page ad, a letter, public letter signed by dozens of the most prominent african-american ceos and business leaders in the country. their letter urging other ceos, urging the rest of corporate america to stand up against the new anti-voting law in georgia and the dozens of laws like out under consideration in other republican-controlled states and maybe it was that full page ad that public letter, maybe it was a renewed threat of boycotts of big georgia companies for not doing enough to try to stop that state's new voter suppression law before it passed, but today

was a day of big shifts. today we saw an abrupt change in tune from the leaders of some of the very biggest corporations based in georgia the ceos of delta airlines and coca-cola both came out today and called the new georgia anti-voting law, quote, unacceptable delta's ceo wrote a long letter to the company's employees said the company did work with republicans in the legislature to try to make the legislation less bad, but he said he now realizes that the law as enacted is, quote, wrong and, quote, based on a lie about voter fraud. georgia's republican governor brian kemp responded today that delta never raised these objections with his office before kemp signed this thing into law kemp said, quote, today's statementdy dy delta's ceo sta in contrast with our conversations with the company here's a question. with delta and coca-cola and

these other ceos and companies now belatedly stepping out, belatedly acknowledging they really didn't understand the magnitude of the problem here until the georgia bill was passed, does that mean that these companies are now alerted enough to the danger of this kind of legislation that they're ashamed now enough about their late reaction in georgia that they're going to be willing to play a role to get voting rights protections passed in washington because that's how you could actually make a difference in georgia right now. there is a live bill in d.c. right now to protect voting rights including to block some of the worst provisions in the georgia bill but that voting rights protection bill in the u.s. senate needs help getting through the u.s. senate right now. and some of those biggest corporations in the country, if they have now got religion on this issue, their help could potentially really make a difference in getting that thing passed will they now work to do it?

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this morning, when dozens of the most prominent african-american ceos and business leaders in the country published a full page ad in "the new york times" urging corporate america to take a stand against the new voter suppression laws like this one in georgia, sherrilyn ifill responded, saying, quote, trust me, this is huge sure enough, a few hours later, huge georgia based corporations like delta and coca-cola were feeling their oats on this issue for the first time coming out, slamming the georgia voting law for the first time, late, frankly, since the bill is already passed, but they absolutely have now moved on the issue. something really did shift today on this front in the battle against these voter suppression laws joining us now is the clairvoyant sherrilyn ifill.

it's really nice to have you here thank you so much for making time >> of course >> why was this -- why did you see that letter from black ceos and business leaders as huge and what do you make of the impact that it had just today >> well, a number of advocates, local advocates in georgia had been pressing these corporations over weeks, black voters matters, the georgia naacp, the new georgia project, really pushing these local corporations to take a stand against what was clearly going to be a disastrous bill and, you know, these are corporations that are synonymous with the state of georgia. col coca-cola is synonymous with georgia. i have been asking them to stand against these provisions we felt it was important for the business community to stand up and it is true that they were

behind the scenes, hoping they could make the bill better, i think, and i think actually at the end, they think that what they did, at least they thought what they did was sufficient, that there were some terrible provisions that were removed from the bill. but the bill that passed is still terrible and their failure to speak as themselves, as georgia corporations, they were beginning to feel the heat and when these ceos came out this morning, these are heavy hitters, rachel. these are not people who are silly, who are fly by night, these are men and women that when they call, you take the call and business leaders across the country know that. they know these names. so, when this came out this morning, a full page ad, a-7 in "the new york times" and you saw the ceos on cnbc and the other channels that people in finance watch in the morning, it was clear to me that this was a game-changer and i think that with the pressure from the local groups and, of course, there have been threats of boycotts,

it did make a difference >> do you think that this may translate, that this will remain focused on georgia or do you think this will translate to these ceos, these corporations that might find themselves in the same frame ofmind, that they might work to pass s-1 and the john lewis bill, as well, that would afford federal protections that would neutralize some of the worst impacts of the state bills like the ones in georgia? >> yeah, i know that is an explicit ask of local groups, an ask that they stand up in other states where copy cat bills are being planned. i mean, i did say to the ceo of coca-cola, people drink it in texas, too, and texas is trying to pass these bills, too hr-1 and hr-4 are very important. and local groups have been making that direct request to companies to understand the

importance of seeking a federal solution we're playing ing whack a mole across a variety of states we're seeing laws proposed in florida and texas and michigan and states around the country. and so, we really need that federal legislation. and it's going to be a test to see if corporations are willing to stand up. these are corporations that are willing to stand up against anti-lgbtq legislation, which is vitally important. they have spoken out on climate change they've spoken out on gun violence now we need them to speak out on this issue, on this race issue and it's a democracy issue and i have been really distressed over the last few weeks and concerned that, you know, the business plan of many american corporations appears to be agnostic about democracy. when you try to deny citizens the ability to vote and punish them for turning out in record numbers as the georgia legislature did with this bill, then they are engaged in anti-democratic actions and that's a space where

corporations are compelled to speak, in my view, because they benefit from our democracy and i think after january 6th, we recognize that we need all of the segmentes of our society to stand together to protect democracy. >> sherrilyn ifill, thank you for being here it's kind of an exciting day today to watch this unfold thank you for helping us understand >> thank you, rachel >> we'll be right back stay with us intuit quickbooks helps small businesses be more successful with payments, payroll, and banking.

so, i said earlier tonight that congressman kevin mccarthy, the house republican leader, could not have meant it when he told fox news this morning that congressman matt gaetz will only be removed from his committee assignments in congres assignments in congress if he is convicted of child sex trafficking, that potentially being indicted on the charges is not enough that's what he said to fox it turns out late this afternoon he did change his mind on that, as i thought he might have, and he gave comments to nbc's leigh ann caldwell in which he made clear that, yes, if he does get indicted for child sex trafficking, that will be enough to remove him from his committee assignments. i thought that sounded wrong when he said it this morning it turns out he cleaned it up late this afternoon. and i am glad to hear it that's going to do it for us tonight. see you again tomorrow time for "the last word with