tonight on all in -- >> what do you say to americans who say that president trump has yet to concede and embarrassment. >> the transition of power continues, as does the state of denial. >> there will be a smooth transition to a second trump administration. >> tonight how too much democracy is a growing problem for the party of trump. then former mueller prosecutor andrew weisman on bill barr's attempt to spin a voter fraud. a case to end obamacare. as the pandemic keeps breaking records, why is the head of the white house task force taking a vacation? when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. coronavirus cases in the united states continue to spike at an

astonishing, alarming rate. according to the covid tracking project, which we've been using over time, there are over 131,000 cases in the u.s. just today. that is yet another single-day record for the u.s. it is a record for the world. more significantly, those blue peaks there in the middle that we've talked about, that's hospitalizations. they don't depend at all on testing numbers. we know how many people are in hospitals. that hit a record high today. an all-time record high. more americans are hospitalized right now as i speak to you for covid than ever before. 62,000 americans in hospitals suffering with coronavirus tonight. while the death count hit its highest number since august 19th and will no doubt go higher. the head of the coronavirus task force, mike pence, has decided to take a vacation. and all this adds even more urgency to the presidential transition that is being delayed in the middle of this devastating pandemic. as you know, we are nearing the final vote tally. president-elect joe biden defeated donald trump in the 2020 presidential election.

actually quite decisively. the numbers show biden with state leads that are not going to be overcome by recounts, certainly not in five different states he flipped. biden is likely to end up with 306 electoral votes, but from the perspective of popular legitimacy, what did the american people say on tuesday? he is probably going to win by four points. he's up by 4.5 million votes with millions more to come in from states like california and new york. he might end up winning by 6 or 7 million votes. now, there have been numerous drawn-out narrow elections in american history, starting with the election of 1800 and the 2000 election. it's been talked about over and over for the past week. back in 1876, the election was so close it was decided by congress. this is not one of those elections. hear me loud and clear. that's not what we're dealing with right now. what we are dealing with is one of the two major parties refusing to accept a democratic party victory as legitimate. and the message has been sent from trump and trump tv on down

for months now. the only way democrats could win would be by cheating. and so now we are faced with this extremely dangerous and unnerving bizarre middle space where the best that can be said is trump, the republican party and their allies would try to overthrow the democratically-elected government and steal the election if it were closer, if they could figure out the right way to do it, but it's just not close enough for them to do it this time. some republicans are acting like trump's behavior's a big joke. one senior republican official told "the washington post," quote, what is the downside for humoring him for this little bit of time? no one seriously thinks the results will change. he went golfing this weekend. it's not like he's plotting to try to prevent joe biden taking power on january 20th. he's tweeting about filing lawsuits. those lawsuits will fail. he'll tweet some more about how the election was stolen and then he'll leave. i mean, that's probably true, and yet earlier today secretary of state mike pompeo at all things the inauguration of the center for freedom and democracy at the ronald reagan institute

from the podium the state department loves to use to lecture other countries about accepting the results of elections did this. >> is the state department currently preparing to engage with the biden transition team, and if not, at what point does a delay hamper a smooth transition or pose a risk to national security? >> there will be a smooth transition to a second trump administration. we're ready. >> was that a joke? it's a bad joke. or maybe it's not a joke. i don't know. while leaders from around the world who understand who won are congratulating president-elect biden, trump and the republican party continue to do things like file an insanely frivolous lawsuit in pennsylvania that wants to retroactively invalidate all mail-in votes in pennsylvania. for real. that's the actual suit they're filing. georgia's entire republican delegation, all of the elected office-holders in office, sent a letter to the republican secretary of state in georgia,

who they are mad didn't oversee an election that stopped democrats from voting and they allege serious allegations of voting irregularities with no evidence whatsoever. and those irregularities somehow only impacted the republican candidates who did not win outright. keep in mind, this includes a bunch of people who were just included, that letter. they're saying their races were fine and legitimate, but the out races where democrats did better are illegitimate. so far only four republican senators have congratulated president-elect biden on his victory. retiring senator pat toomey of pennsylvania just moments ago saying that he thinks that biden's going to win. you have the general services administration arm of the federal government refusing to fork over the money necessary for office space to begin the transition. "the washington post" reports the white house has told federal agencies to plan for the trump administration's budget proposal for next year. you have attorney general bill barr setting up an interestingly-worded but really

quite disquieting note about the department of justice stepping into an election before results are certified to look into voter fraud. that led to the resignation of the director of the election crimes branch who was a decorated justice department veteran. and then perhaps most worryingly, a day after firing defense secretary mark esper, trump has moved a series of loyalists into critical positions throughout the pentagon. as nbc news political editor benji sarlin pointed out the emerging argument of, yes, the president and his allies want to overturn an election and would do so in a heartbeat if at all possible but not sure they can is not reassuring for the future of democracy. at a certain point if you're trollingly pretending to be in a coup? when do you actually try a coup? >> the ability for the

administration in any way by failure to recognize this -- our win does not change the dynamic at all in what we're able to -- i just think it's an embarrassment, quite frankly. the only thing that -- how can i say this tactfully? i think it will not help the president's legacy. >> that's not gonna work. and they're not winning. they are losing, badly and flailing. but what they are doing is wildly destructive and nihilistic even. it's not surprise we've ended up here or that so much of the republican party, all of it, and i mean the whole conservative architecture and lawyers of little law firms like joan's day are participating in it and all the staffers, all the people that are part of this enterprise are going along with it. it has been a core belief in the conservative movement and the republican party for more than a decade that there is just no such thing as legitimate

democratic rule by the democratic party. they can't legitimately win. i mean, let's remember, the reason donald trump became a national figure in conservative politics was his elevation of a deranged conspiracy theory that the last democratic president who won a resounding victory was actually secretly illegitimate. and everyone from mitt romney to fox news played along because they didn't want to upset the people in the base. let them have this. and now here we are. someone who i really trust to take a clear-eyed view of all of this, president and director of council of the naacp and legal defense fund. her headline in "slate," "no, this election did not go smoothly." where are we at right now? >> well, chris, we're in a very dangerous moment, i think. we're in this moment between the administrations. trump is still the president. there is only one president at a time. and he carries enormous power in that position.

but more importantly, it's the -- it's the people around him and the people in republican leadership who have refused to do what i think is the most important thing at this moment, which is to recognize the importance of leadership and speaking in a way to the public, to the american people about our elections, about the transfer of power, about the rule of law. these lawsuits that, you know, the pennsylvania lawsuit suggesting somehow that mail-in balloting is unconstitutional. mail-in balloting has been with us since the civil war. it's -- this is a continuation, and this is my concern, of a kind of bending of the notion of law in a way that suggests that it is only what you say it is for your political ends. >> right. >> and we see that happening with mitch mcconnell and we see that happening with leadership that i think is -- is really creating a very dangerous moment in this country. >> you know, it's -- it's so

clear, the allegations of fraud have been ridiculous, you know, there's the example of the ballot challenges in maricopa county. the trump administration actually filed, about 180 ballots. that's just what they challenge. there is a 14,000-vote margin. all of this is not intended to be serious in a legal sense. we got news that a pollster worker, the president's own campaign white house spokesperson tweeting this story, you know, whistle-blower, that the post office was back-dating ballots, admits fabricating allegations of ballot tampering, officials say. in some ways this is poisoning the well, and you can't tick the poison out of the well when you run the follow-up story that says it was fabricated. >> and remember the random factor. this not about you and me, chris. this is not about lawyers at law firms. this is actually even not about political party leadership. this is about the rank and file, the 70 million people who support the president, who believe that his leadership was good leadership and were signed up for four more years of it.

a portion of whom are quite volatile. some quite dangerous. who are being led to believe the outcome of this election is illegitimate. and they have no control over what those people will do with that information, and, frankly, they are deliberately stoking that part of the population. >> yes. >> so when i see this call for a march on saturday, this is dangerous stuff. and for those who are saying we shouldn't worry about it because there's nothing trump can do about it and who are sanguine, i am not sanguine. i have seen hate crimes and people killed as a result of extremists. we have seen what it means when you try to delegitimize leadership. we can't get anything done. go to the top of your show. while all of this conversation is happening, while mitch mcconnell's making these speeches, he's still moving through judges, by the way, but he's not passing a covid relief bill. >> no. >> so tens of thousands of people are facing eviction and 70% of icu beds in the country

are full. it's not a game and it's not a joke. >> it's not a game and it's not a joke. i want to play this for you because i think you and i both know that the fraud stuff is completely fabricated. it's essentially chum. they know that. they, i think, even know that. what the real objection is is that we let too many people vote, that voting was too accessible and too many people voted and that's bad. and you actually have people saying this. lindsey graham basically says it and victor davis hanson who was on trump tv the other night just comes out and says it. i want to play for you them sort of admitting what the real issue here is. >> 30, 40, 45 days before the election you can keep voting casually. you go in, vote, there is no one day you vote. it's a transition from a rugged individual who has to take a responsibility to know the issues, show up on election day unless he's working or she's sick and then turning it into sort of an entitlement. >> mitch mcconnell and i need to come up with an oversight of mail-in balloting, if we don't

do something about voting by mail, we're going to lose the ability to elect a republican in this country. >> that's saying it. it's too casual. people can vote too easily and if people vote by mail we can't elect a republican because it depends on not enough -- not many people voting. >> so let me turn to the part that's infuriating, chris. if you are a black voter and the legal defense fund, we have spent months trying to improve absentee voting opportunities for black voters and disabled voters who are susceptible to covid-19 infection and death. and, you know, you waited in line at -- during early voting or you faced voter intimidation during early voting, as so many black voters did in all kinds of polling places in florida and other states. it was not casual. and that's what my "slate" piece is about. it's about the obstacles that black voters overcame to participate in this election at record-high levels. and this is why this becomes

that infuriating. because we're having a ridiculous conversation about voter fraud is part of the same myth of voter fraud that has been perpetuated for more than a decade as a justification for things like voter i.d. laws, voter purges -- >> yep. >> -- and other methods that are designed to disenfranchise black voters. and instead of talking about what we should be talking about, which is why black voters have to overcome all these hurdles to participate in this election, we're playing this game of voter fraud that is basically being used as a way to hold on to political power. >> thank you so much for joining me tonight. >> thank you, chris. i want to bring in a former white house cabinet secretary and deputy secretary secretary of labor, chris lu, the executive director of the 2008 obama/biden transition. just named to the biden/harris transition team, working with the labor department transition. full disclosure, you hired my wife back in 2008 when you both

were above a subway in washington, d.c. tell me about, what does this mean, this moment? i thought that biden's perspective here which was, eh, sort of swatting away the flies, was proper messaging. how much does this become -- begin to become a problem just logistically in standing up a transition? >> chris, let's take a historical perspective on this. this is not a game. it's not a partisan food fight. this is a gross violation of a historical norm. we have had the peaceful transfer of power in this country for 200 years through war, through depression. when there have been bitter adversaries who have fought a really difficult political battle. none of those did we know who the gsa administrator was. in none of these was there are issue about ascertainment. and what's pointer here is not just the cooperation around getting the economy back up and running, about dealing with covid, but this transition

period in general always is a tenuous time from a national security perspective, from a homeland security perspective. the 9/11 commission found in 2000 that the delay in the bush team getting their people into national security positions created a vulnerability. we know that in 2009 that there was a terrorist threat on inauguration day that had to be coordinated between the outgoing bush team and the incoming clinton team. so this is not a game and this really endangers security and the american people need to take this seriously. >> what matters here in terms of the levers? i mean, at one level it's a strange space, the law is the law. the elections are going to be certified. the lawsuits are nonsense. they're not going to prevail in court. but the president right now, like, what do you make of what he's doing? what are they doing at d.o.d.? i mean, at one level, okay, he wants to put his stooges in, you know, at the top levels of the united states pentagon, i guess,

but what are -- what is -- what is that? >> yeah, i mean, none of this makes any sense. look, you might not be happy with mark esper, but to basically boot him to the sidewalk 70 days before he would have had to leave otherwise, simply because you weren't happy that he wouldn't call troops out on peaceful protesters seems just like revenge. this move to put loyalists in there really can only be seen as possibly setting up this, you know, if we somehow figure out a way to run the table in these lawsuits in these four, five different states and we can somehow flip several million votes, we can then take power and we're going to put our loyalists in. none of this is -- makes any sense at all. it almost has the feel like if donald trump is not going to win, he's just going to burn the entire place down on his way out of office. >> well, then, what are the implications there? i mean, look, again, kate who worked on the transition had this great piece in "the atlantic" basically talking about the fact that the law directs civil servants to work towards peaceful transition of power, independent what the president said.

their fidelity is to the united states constitution and american democracy and its continuance. are you -- do you have faith that those tracks are going to proceed as needed? >> i do have faith that if career officials are allowed to engage with the incoming transition team that we can have a successful transition. you know, it is -- transitions are kind of a remarkable thing. we do this every four or eight years, and on one day at noon on january 20th, several thousand political appointees leave and then several hundred new ones come in. and the fact that we've been able to pull this off every four or eight years is really a testament both to this norm of peaceful transfer of power as well as to the experience and dedication of career civil servants. >> right. >> who are keeping the trains running on time. and so i have faith that they can do their job, we can pull this off. but ultimately the tone gets set by the top. >> all right. chris lu, who is an expert on these transitions, working on this one as well. thank you for your time tonight.

>> thank you. next up, bill barr drags the department of justice into the president's baseless claims of widespread voter fraud. authorizing lawyers to launch investigations inside the justice department. the dangerous enabling of the president after this.

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yesterday attorney general bill barr sent out a memo to doj employees that gave the okay to investigating supposed voter fraud while votes are still being counted and the results

are not yet certified. quote, such inquiries and reviews may be conducted if there are clear and apparently credible allegations of irregularities that if true could potentially impact the outcome of a federal election in an individual state. but while the memo appears to have been designed to reassure donald trump and other republicans making baseless accusations, it crossed a major red line for one high-ranking justice department official. richard pilger is the director of the election crimes branch -- in the doj. he resigned from that position in protest shortly after barr's new policy was released, writing to his colleagues, quote, having familiarized myself with the new policy and its ramifications, i must regretfully resign from my role, the director of the election crimes branch. that does not bode well in the department of justice's attempt to get trump to accept the results of the election and hand over the reins. andrew weisman was lead investigate on the special

counsel for russian interference. "where law ends: inside the mueller investigation." andrew, what's your reaction? i know mr. pilger has a sterling reputation inside the department of justice, to seeing his resignation? >> my reaction is this is the latest example of bill barr's handy work, it's a real parting shot that is quite dangerous, as is other examples are. it is worth people to know to see career people resigning is not normal. it is potentially dangerous. the thing that it portends, and the thing that you noticed, chris, it really changes the timing of such investigations. the policy of the department of justice prior to yesterday was that these election investigations were done after

not just the voting but after the certification. the remedy was not to undo elections. that was not -- that was left to the states to figure out what kind of penalties there should be and how to deal with that situation. the federal government did not go into that area. and this basically says, no, no, no, we are going to allow the timing to happen now. prior to certification so that we can start hampering with the results of an election. so it really changes the role of the department of justice in doing these investigations. so i can understand why mr. pilger resigned. >> yeah, that seems to be the red line. he said somewhere in the letter that is abrogates this 40-year policy. you cannot have the fbi or department of justice running around as votes are being

counted. in the one example we have. systemic fraud and abuse in one candidate tried to steal an election. a special congressional election in north carolina in which the republican campaign did that, it was the local board of elections that refused to certify and the indictments about it came much later, you know, after the investigations had been done. >> well, you have to remember coming from the special counsel, there is another irony here. bill barr was certainly no fan of election interference in terms of, you know, doing the investigation into russia's interference with the election, but he seems to be full-bore on these premature investigations with no evidence in this situation. so, you know, the irony certainly to someone like me is palpable. >> yeah, listen to what he had to say back at his confirmation hearing. this is william barr talking about the role of the department of justice and elections and staying out of that thicket. take a listen. >> why is it that the department

of justice rules, which also apply to the fbi, make it clear that our chief law enforcement agencies in this country should not get tangled up in election politics? are there policies in place that try to insulate the investigations and the decisions of the department of justice and fbi from getting involved in elections? >> yes, senator, there are. >> and why is that? >> well, obviously because the incumbent party has their hands on the -- among other reasons, they have their hands on the levers of the law enforcement apparatus of the country and you don't want it used against the opposing political party. >> oh, the incumbent party has their hands on the levers of the law enforcement apparatus of the country and you don't want it used against the opposing political party? the least charitable reading of this memo he sent out is basically a go get em to the trumpiest attorneys of the 93 districts to go do your thing.

>> absolutely. so, chris, one of the important things for people to know is that it used to be you would -- that is prior to yesterday -- that the career officials, nonpolitical appointees, would oversee and approve these types of investigations. and the barr memo pointedly said -- >> pointedly. >> -- that the united states attorneys, 93 political-appointed u.s. attorneys around the country can decide for themselves whether to open an investigation and the threshold for opening the investigation is notably lower than it had been. all that you need under the barr memo is irregularities. i was actually dumbstruck by that. in order to open a criminal investigation, it can't just be some noncriminal irregularity. you're supposed to need some criminal predicate, not a mistake, not something -- >> right. >> -- negligent. but that's not what barr's memo says. it says all you need is some

irregularity to open an investigation. >> wow. it's really astonishing. you know, again, i think things are holding, but they're only holding because a lot of people are making the right decisions in the face of people at the top who are making decisions that fundamentally collude with the most evil impulses imaginable. andrew weisman, thank you very much. >> you're welcome. next, the case to strike down the aca went before the supreme court today and two of the conservative justices did not seem like they were buying it. what they said. what it means for the aca after this. insurance coverage isn't something you want to play games with. hope you got dental. and that's why i love healthmarkets, your insurance marketplace. they guarantee you won't find a lower price anywhere for the plans they offer, so you're not just picking by chance. no copay?... sweet. with health insurance plans constantly changing,

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so you don't wait for life. you live it. so the fate of the affordable care act was before the supreme court yet again today. if you've heard me say that before, it's because it's been there a few times. and today it's important to think about the context here. what are the two things that the mcconnell/paul ryan/donald trump unified government tried to do? well, they tried to repeal and replace the aca.

you might remember that. they failed multiple times. john mccain goes thumbs down at 1:00 in the morning. and then they passed that big tax cut. when they passed the tax cut, they actually got rid of what's called the mandate penalty. the part of the aca that says if you don't buy health insurance, you have to pay a tax penalty. then using that, a bunch of republicans rushed to court to kind of, um, construct a constitutional or statutory interpretation rube goldberg ma sheer whereby them successfully getting rid of the mandate tax means they'd actually repeal the aca, even though they had very clearly failed to do that in front of all of us watching. that was the case today. the whole kit and caboodle. all those protections for people with pre-existing conditions and staying on your insurance and insurance regulations, 2,200 pages of settled law that has been humming along in the system, just scrap it all because the mandate's not there. the argument came up against some resistance. take a listen.

>> there's no basis to ignore the words that congress enacted and that remain operative today. the proper course is to take congress at its word and declare the mandate unconstitutional and inseverable from the remainder of the aca. >> general hawkins, on the severance question, i think it's hard for you to argue that congress intended the entire act to fall if the mandate were struck down when the same congress that lowered the penalty to zero did not even try to repeal the rest of the act. i think, frankly, that they wanted the court to do that, but that's not our job. >> the state of california argued to save the affordable care act in the supreme court today, and california's attorney general xavier becerra joins me now. attorney general, how did you think arguments went today? >> chris, i am measuredly

optimistic, let's put it that way. let's put it this way, i just think you gave a layman's presentation of the case, which is a lot easier to understand what the attorneys have to argue before the supreme court, so i would take your argument and shop it around the country. i think you explained it very well. >> well, i think mike mongen did a pretty good job for himself. you've got a couple of issues here. let's take them. the case itself is facially absurd. let's put that aside. there is a question of standing, which is can the people suing about this, do they actually have grounds to be in court? because what exactly is the injury here? what remedy do you need because there is no longer a tax mandate? and it seemed like your arguments on that found some sympathetic hearing. what did you think of that? >> yeah, as i said, i think you just argued it well. we didn't have as much emotion dripping from the way mike mongan made the argument before the court.

that's essentially what we're saying. if the tax on the individual mandate is reduced to zero so no one will pay anything, how are you harmed? and so far texas and the federal government, the trump administration, have never given us any clear sense how anyone was harmed. >> then the bigger question, the one that you heard in that exchange and came up a lot in oral arguments today is a notion of severability, which is, okay, let's say the mandate no longer has to die. does the rest of the law have to die, too? and there was a lot on that today? what's the argument the state of california and others are presenting to sever that, so that they don't have to be together? >> well, it's a stretch, first, as you said, to find that there was any harm so there is standing. then there is a stretch to say that a law that had gone twice before the supreme court all of a sudden now is unconstitutional. but then the real stretch as you pointed out is that the 2017 congress, which passed a tax

break bill meant to reduce the tax on the individual mandate to zero at the same time meant that it also wanted to get rid of pre-existing condition protections. get rid of the support for seniors on medicare when it comes to prescription drugs. get rid of the support for 26-year-olds and under who stayed on their parents' health insurance. nowhere in the debate or discussion or any language in the 2017 tax cut bill was there language about getting rid of all of the affordable care act. so it's clear it's a stretch that they're trying to have this court sign on to. >> it's so wild because it's not like we got to take out the ouija board to figure out what the founders meant, like, they're right there. we all watched them. you can go talk to ron johnson. >> i should have had mike mongan argue this, let you have some minutes of time to argue this. >> this whole idea, what did congress mean? i don't know. go talk -- they're right there. the last question is the sort of the dog that caught the car question, right? which is that republicans

panicked they were going to win this case and don't you worry your pretty little heads about it and amy coney barrett would never vote to overturn it. the solicitor general in texas saying, look, if they strike it down, maybe they can stay some replacement. what's the plan if you pull out all america's health care regulations at once? >> and that's the thing, there is no plan. and thank god when we have joe biden as president, we're going to improve on the affordable care act, not try to dismantle it, and that's where we need to go. americans right now under covid need health care. americans would have died without the affordable care act. and a whole bunch of americans who lost their job and with that job their insurance now have insurance through the affordable care act. we need this. it's time to move on. we can't afford to risk this. this is about saving lives. >> all right. xavier becerra, who is the attorney general for the state of california, thanks for making a little time for us. >> thank you. ahead, coronavirus outbreaks are just raging across the country. we're running out of words to describe it. what it is like in the places

where it's hardest hit, where hospitals are at capacity and morgues, morgues are filling up. after this.

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call today or go online to understandhf.com for a free hf handbook. while many of us were distracted by the presidential election, the coronavirus continued to spread exponentially across the country. smashing old records and creating new ones. the u.s. hit a record 62,000 hospitalizations today. that's the most people that have ever been hospitalized in the country for covid at one time. this map shows the average daily cases per 100,000 people. you can see that midwest outbreak there. the dark, dark red. that indicates more than 55 cases per day per 100,000 people. and we're seeing worrying signs of the virus spreading rapidly there. this was the scene at a testing center in milwaukee today. they have consistently been seeing more than 2,500 people driving in for a test each day this week. with about 18% of tests statewide coming back positive. that's very high.

the w.h.o. wants it to be around 4% or 5%. in nearby michigan, an emergency room doctor shared his observations about how the health care system is holding up under all this pressure. >> hey, it's dr. rob here. just got done working a shift in the e.r. just want y'all to know that covid-19 is still here. it's raging. we've got patients being transferred an hour and a half away. we've got patients waiting five, six hours to get into a bed because so many hospitals, including mine, including every hospital in the vicinity, they're all full. >> el paso, texas is also in the midst of just brutal situations. so many people in el paso are dying in that community they've just run out of space in the county morgue. they've resorted to using mobile morgue trailers we saw this back in april in new york city. when new york city was having the worst outbreak anywhere in the world. the county judge of el paso has ordered nonessential businesses shut down in an effort to try to slow the spread. >> it's very difficult just

sitting here and knowing that there's in this whole place there's 154 bodies right now. inside and in these trailers. being an el pasoan, born and raised here, and knowing in the hispanic community the burial is such a big part of our lives, celebration of life and to see that we are storing bodies and people are still not understanding the stay-at-home order. >> the state of utah remains in a state of emergency tonight. as the virus surges, hospitals are becoming overcrowded. these images are from the intensive care unit at the intermountain medical center outside of salt lake city, which is over 90% capacity. >> we're a large system. we can move patients around. we can find beds for patients. the unsustainable part is the caregivers. we don't have another caregivers to manage the increasing amount of patients. and we know that even if transmission stopped today, our

hospitalizations would continue to rise for weeks. our caregivers are strong, they're incredible people, but they're tired, they're fatigued, and they're often frustrated and angry when they go out in their communities and see people not heeding the advice of public health experts because we know that's going to lead to transmission. that's going to lead to more patients in the hospital and more unnecessary deaths. we have to be hopeful. we have to be optimistic. and, yes, i think this will turn around eventually. i think it's really a matter of how many people are going to die until that happens. >> how many people are going to die before that happens? we're going to have more on the fight against the virus and the vaccine efforts that are been jeopardized right now by trump's refusal to acknowledge biden's victory. that's next. funny thing about health insurance, you don't think about how much you need it... until you need it. he's not going to be okay. with so many changes to health insurance plans, are you still sure you have the right fit?

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when america laz to understand is we are about to enter covid hell. it is happening. mesh doesn't get this yet. this is going to get worse. we'll look back and say to ourselves 100,000 cases a day? i wish we were back there at that point. >> doctor is part of the new covid task force joe biden assembled to fight the virus on day one of the administration. cases climb across the country. 130,000 today alone. a new record. including the distribution of a possibly vaccine. former task force member points out in a new piece. the trump administration stopped all transition efforts activity and funding.

that will slow if not halt efforts to get vaccines to the american people. she joins me now. along with someone's experience with vaccines with a range of diseases is working on a vaccine now. he's codirector of texas children's hospital center for vaccine development. let's start on this day by day logistics in front of the country. and the transition. really promising data from pfizer. we're expecting and hoping other vaccine makers in a similar place. then you have to get the vaccine out to people. my understanding the federal government is planning on playing a big role. how important is hand off in that seamlessly from one administration to another? >> it's critical. there's no time to waste. it's unfortunate that the teams aren't able to not allowed to

urpd going proper transition that happens during this period. to hit the ground running in january. we're going into a really dark time. this vaccine once it's ready and safe and effective, we're going to have the implemented. what we don't want is waste time having to redo efforts or should be able to see what the work is done and implement it. >> i remember having you on four to six weeks ago. and we were talking about the vaccine. i was trying to find a reason to be upbeat. you ended saying the winter will be horrible. it sprung in my ears ever since. i'm running out of word to describe where we're at. >> like you im also running out of word. what's unfolding now is a true humanitarian catastrophe. in my moment of despace i call

it a slaughter. what we're seeing now are surges on intensive care units across the country. utah and texas. all up in the northern part of midwest. and the reason those surges are so important to point out is when you start overwhelming icu staff and emergency room we saw this in new york and europe earlier this year. mortality starts to skyrocket. as staff gets exhausted. you don't have trained hospital staff. this is what we're seeing. we'll replicate what happened in new york in march and april. and places across the country. with no leadership. with no federal response. numbers will continue to climb. he says 100,000 were already at 130,000 reaching every day will be at 150,000.

and the deaths probably looking at 400,000 after the inauguration which would probably the largest public health catastrophe in modern u.s. history. all which could be prevented. we don't have to lose all those lives. we can stop this right now if we have the federal leadership. that is breaking my heart. one of the reasons i'm out there every day trying to do what i can to get bipartisan support. to stop the surge to stop the hospitalizations and deaths that will follow. >> one of the most difficult things to look at this is conclude. it's clear that what we're seeing now is an active policy choice. from the white house. scott atlas really believes in the theory that we should let the virus go. that the cost of mitigation

efforts are too high. people have to get normal. it can't dominate your life. what we're seeing is not a mistake. this is the policy choice the white house is chosen. is that a fair characterization? >> i think you're accurate. we have known this is the situation. we would likely be in this time. the county morgue in my hometown is full. that could have been avoided. it should have been. they don't care. this is exactly what is happening right now. this the policies made to campaign and hold rallies and continue fighting election results and everything else. instead of protecting american lives. vice president pence that's great for him. he's going on vacation. as a leader of the coronavirus task force. instead of sitting down with the transition team and save people. and protect them from the virus.

i was put in charge to do but my boss prevented me implementing. we're not going to support the incoming president. which is ub patriotic and un-american. >> from the beginning, there's a few different things to think about. what is the goal here? in fighting this virus. when it hit the u.s. and hit it so hard in april, particularly the intensely local places, new york. expo ten shl growth and hospital systems melting down. we saw it. in wu han and new york. people in new york die nd their homes before they can get to the hospital. dying in the waiting rooms. we will see this again. above that, it seems to me suppressing the virus is now we have to think about flattening

the curve and saving hospitals systems. that's not enough. it will fester. >> that's right. there's two components. beyond just calling it a policy change. which is what's really a deliberate disinformation campaign to down play the significance of the epidemic and attribute deaths to other causes. fake concepts of herd immunity and discrediting masks. what you have is the refusal to prevent those surges. we know how to do this. the part of the what's so frustrating about this is we're not asking americans to do this forever. we have to hang on for a few more months. we have good vaccines coming. maybe ours is one of them. you have the pfizer. we'll have a significant percentage of the population. you can save your mother's life your grandfather's life. your brother your sister. just hang on for four months.

and implement the aggressive social distancing to prevent the surge in the places where we need to do it. it's just outrageous that we are willingly leading good evening chris, thank you at home for joining us this hour. rachel is still in quarantine after a close contact tested positive for covid-19 today. as the supreme court heard arguments in a case that could gut obama care. president-elect joe biden took the stage at queen theater.