between two friends. >> he could have sent him a dm on twitter. might have been faster given the president's -- on twitter. >> he definitely have the cell phone number. >> have a great holiday. >> thank you. of course we'll be reading axios a.m. in a bit. you can sign up for the newsletter at signup.axios.com. >> that does it for us on a friday americaning. i'm frances rivera with ayman mohyeldin. "morning joe" starts right now. hurricane dorian slammed into the caribbean, flooding streets, toppling trees and capsizing boats but spared the islands from major disaster. now, the storm has its eye on florida and is expected to hit the state as a dangerous category 4. the governor issuing the blunt warning. >> the time to act is now. if you haven't acted, act to make preparations. do not wait until it's too late. >> hurricane dorian is getting stronger and forecasters say it can hit florida as an extremely

dangerous category 4 hurricane in the coming days. dorian intensified to a category 2 last night. as of right now, there are no evacuation orders in place, but the entire state of florida is under emergency. you can expect those evacuation orders to be coming soon. it's friday, august 30th. this morning we have with us washington anchor for bbc news america, katty kay. associate editor for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. msnbc political analyst susan del percio. jonathan lemire. and cnbc editor at large john harwood. mika has the morning off and we have a lot of politics to get to. also some international news,

but first let's go right to nbc meteorologist bonnie schneider for the latest track. looks like dorian really is targeting south florida now. >> that's right. most of the models have shifted further south and west, both not good news and what's interesting is that the forecast calls for dorian to slow down. but right now, a category 2 storm moving to the northwest at 12. i want to look at the satellite perspective because even though there's some shear happening, this storm is coming over a much more favorable environment. let's look at the track because if you're just getting up and the way that things have really shifted, we're still expecting a category 4 storm. which is really unprecedented and historical. if we go back to 2017 and '18 we had category 4 storms hitting florida. are we going to see that again this year? that would make three consecutive times that occurred.

that hasn't happened since 1950 and you can imagine how much the population of florida has increased since 1950. some is saying it will make landfall on tuesday, another earlier. we have two differences between the american and the european model, with the national hurricane center kind of getting right in between. beyond five days we have to watch this closely because there's still a wide area of uncertainty for dorian. >> all right. thank you so much, bonnie. we appreciate it. and president trump is canceling his trip to poland this weekend to monitor that storm. he says that mike pence will be going in his place. >> i have just spoken to president duda of poland and expressed the warmest wishes and the wishes of the american people. our highest priority is the safety and security of the people in the path of the

hurricane. and i will be rescheduling my trip to poland in the near future. >> and here's part of the president's video message about the storm. it was posted on his twitter feed and was produced by the white house. >> we're ready. we have the best people in the world ready. and they're going to help you. we're shipping food, we're shipping water, but it may that you're going to evacuate. we'll see what happens. we're waiting. >> katty, i had said a couple of days ago that the contempt that he showed as hurricane was approaching puerto rico would obviously by contrasted as it moved on and it would go to an important swing state for trump's election. instead of mocks and insults, the president canceled a foreign trip. one where he actually would have been greeted kindly. and putting out video messages

of concerns and instructions. the contrast couldn't be more stark. >> he seemed to blame puerto rico for being in the eye of puerto rico and now he cancels a trip. this was the trip he was meant to go on to denmark as well so that had been canceled. you wonder if he didn't want to do any of these two foreign trips at all. anyway, joe, he says it's because of dorian and he wants to show concern for florida. but i suspect also he had no real interest perhaps in going to either poland or having canceled denmark already. >> yeah. and jonathan, the president -- it's not much of a secret inside the white house he does not like traveling abroad. never has. and so given an excuse not go to europe again, a pretty easy choice for him, i suppose.

let's look at the other side of it. i had heard many foreign policy analysts concerned about him going over to ceremony that had been repositioned by the polish government in a way that might actually celebrate -- or be seen as inspirational for some of the more concerning elements that are rising in central and eastern europe now. >> that's right, joe. first of all, to your original point this is a president who had time and time again looks to cut trips short. he's canceled a number of international trips in the past. white house reporters have been known to -- one of the things you need to learn on the show is to buy refundable airplane tickets because his plans change so often. his original plan was go to do denmark and purchase greenland while he was there and after that snafu and that fell apart, there was some speculation that he would look to scuttle this trip here. you're right. he was warmly received in poland

his previous time there. he had told people he was at least in the earlier in this month looking forward to going. but that may have changed. there is -- there was concern as you said about some of the elements that would be celebrated as part of this world war ii commemoration and that alarmed some of the people there. particularly on the -- alarmed some of the world observers particularly on the heels of another -- the bull in the china shop performance at the g7 that we saw from the president. let's be clear, this could be a major storm and the age -- last few decades post hurricane katrina where george w. bush was so rightly criticized for the poor response to the storm, presidents are mindful of the optics here. and when a major national -- natural disaster is looming you know it makes sense for him to be in washington, to be in the united states monitoring things and of course the -- why he might have a particular interest for this storm, florida, swing

state no doubt, but also at least for now the track of the storm is headed straight for mar-a-lago. his club in south florida which may if forecasts are right end up taking a lot of damage so he has a personal interest in that as well. >> a lot of damage and this storm again turning into a historic storm. so katty, we'll be following this story all morning but let's turn from domestic concerns to an international crisis that continues in hong kong. >> yes. several prominent pro democracy activists in hong kong this has taken a turn this particular crisis. they have now reportedly been arrested as part of a crackdown in the ongoing protests there. student leaders from the 2014 pro democracy protests have been taking parts and they have been arrested and now have been released according to their political organization. another individual the head of now banned pro independence party he's also been detained and his current status is

unclear. these arrests occurred just prior to a rally that was planned for saturday to coincide with the fifth anniversary of china imposing strict limits and however, there are new concerns that police will arrest protests en masse. this is expected to be the 13th straight weekend of demonstrations in hong kong. although officials have started to ban rallies that were previously permitted and they have increased arrests as well. john, when we watch both -- here are the demonstrators, 13 weekends in a row. they show no signs of giving up and china now exerting firmer control over these demonstrations. where does this lead, this clash between beijing and pro democracy protesters in hong kong? >> it's incredibly dangerous, and i think that's something that we focus so much attention on the trade war between president trump and chinese leadership that this potential

national security crisis going on at the same time which threatens the future of hong kong and a spontaneous movement that is -- that has been going on for weeks demanding political rights is something that perhaps was inevitable since we had the handover from britain years ago, i don't know where it's headed and i think everyone is fearing an ultimate chinese crackdown. so far, they have not used violence. president trump has fairly mildly suggested that they not do that. it hasn't been a very stern talking to that he's administered to xi, but we don't know where this is going. >> of course it's tied up with the trade negotiations and how the white house decides to handle both of these things in parallel with each other. and the judge overseeing the jeffrey epstein prosecution has

ended the case against the accused sex trafficker. following this week's hearing when two dozen alleged victims testified about what epstein did to them, the end of the criminal case however does not affect any civil claims that are brought by victims against his estate. or the federal grand jury into his circumstances of his death earlier this month. according to "the new york times" epstein is accused in civil suits of relying on the organized network of underlings, those who trained girls how to sexually pleasure him, office assistance who booked travel and ensuring he had a fresh supply of teenage girls on the ready. even reading that it sounds so disgusting. none of his associates have been charged or named as co-conspirators in manhattan, but "the times" reports that

federal authorities are considering charges that includes sex trafficking and sex trafficking conspiracy. this suit against his estate, susan, having heard these women and their incredibly painful testimony this week in court, can the suit against the estate bring them any kind of justice, do you think? >> i don't think they'll see justice. i think they're trying to get some kind of recognition for what they have gone through and the suffering this caused. just one other thing i'd like to talk about when you mentioned the ongoing potential cases. don't forget, the public corruption unit of the -- of the southern district of new york is the one who investigated and brought this forward. so i'm also curious to see what other shoes may drop as far as other potential elected officials or people in public positions that maybe they knew in new york for example that jeffrey epstein wasn't checking in as he was supposed to. and perhaps even investigating

when it went on in florida. i think there's some news around there pretty soon. >> yeah. a lot of focus still on maxwell and what she has to say this. and now the donald trump administration is deferring deportations. an obama policy lets them safe stay in the united states to receive life saving treatments. however, along with the department of homeland security, they have quietly rejected all requests to defer deportation, except those made by certain military members and veterans. a spokesman for citizenship said request for deferred action must be made to immigration and customs enforcement. the agency responsal for removing people from the country but an i.c.e. official said that the accident had not been notified in advance about the change. and questioned the agency's

ability to assume that role. in a statement an i.c.e. spokesman said as with any request for deferred action, i.c.e. reviews each case on its own merits and exercises appropriate discretion after reviewing all of the facts involved. yesterday, several democratic presidential candidates slammed the administration for this move. >> he's seeking to deport sick kids. seeking life saving medical treatment in the united states. like every bully he's trying to make himself seem stronger by picking on the most vulnerable among us. and folks, -- >> i believe that we need to exercise common sense and compassion when it comes to migrants, not cruelty. so i want to take our country in the direction of being able to maintain border security, but to do it with compassion and common sense and to end this cruelty that the administration is so focused on in too many different ways to count. >> you know, gene, here's

another example of an extreme position, an unduly harsh position that won't make america safer. it's not going to -- it's not going to lessen the number coming across the border illegally. of course it was at a 50 year low when trump became president thanks to president obama. this does nothing to show a harshness that his base enjoys seeing. >> he believes his base enjoys seeing this. this move has -- >> inhumanity. >> it has the name stephen miller written all over it. you know, the policy on immigration is being made by, you know, a bigoted ant anti-immigration zealot in the white house who is now the president's most influential adviser. certainly on immigration, stephen miller is. and the policies are uniformly cruel and punitive and they seem

to believe that somehow these awful policies act as a deterrent. it's disgraceful. i was just trying to think of what other leader, what other country in a world full of bad leaders, but who else would do this. would say let's deport some desperately sick children? it's just -- you could not -- you could not write this in your worst sort of dystopian fantasy. but this is -- this is where we are in the united states of america in the year 2019. it's just appalling. >> it is appalling and again, using inhumane -- again, using inhumane policies that aren't going to is an impact on the flow of immigrants coming to the united states. again, the purpose -- the inhumanity of the policy proposals themselves and the policies themselves are actually

the ends. they're not a means to an end. they're a political end for the president and what he thinks that his base wants to see. well, katty, i'm sure we'll be hearing a lot more of this coming from the democratic candidates and i understand we have the podium order lined up. >> yeah. it has now been announced for next month's third democratic primary debate in houston, texas. the ten candidates that qualified for the debate are going to appear on the stage from left to right, they'll be in the following order, klobuchar, castro, buttigieg, sanders, biden, warren, kamala harris, yang, beto o'rourke. >> and thankfully just one night. >> classic midweek viewing.

>> yes. john harwood, we'll obviously have a lot of good back and forths from the people. elizabeth warren actually is going to get a chance to interact with the front-runner for the first time in these democratic debates. but you have just written a column talking about how it's still obviously not too late. we're still over five months away from iowa. but you said a few of biden's rivals can still catch him. talk about it. >> well, it's not too late for the half dozen people who are clearly going to be in the final contest as we get to iowa over the next several months. for most of the field that's consistently run one, two, 3% in the polls if even registering at all we're starting to see them drop out. we saw that from kirsten gillibrand. we have seen inslee and swalwell

and seth moulton drop out. if you look at biden, harris, sanders, buttigieg and bernie, you have got potential for significant movement. they're all going to have money to advertise. they're going to have organizations that could be potent in iowa. and everybody has been waiting for this moment when they're all on the stage at the same time. abc while being spared the second night has added another hour, so we have three hours to hear them and i think we'll get kind of an engagement that we haven't seen before. i don't know how sharp it's going to be. but everybody is going to have the opportunity to see whether elizabeth warren with continue the momentum and whether joe biden can continue to hold his support. you know, he's been much more resilient than a lot of people expected. despite the controversies over how he's performed in debates or "the washington post" story yesterday about the military

rituals and anecdotes that he was mistelling. i think joe biden is -- he heads to labor day in a pretty strong position and he's got to hold it. >> he does. he heads to labor day in a strong position despite two shaky performances and gaffes along the way that a lot of people are talking about including "the washington post." john harwood, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it and still ahead on "morning joe," as john said there's new scrutiny on joe biden focused on a story he told on the campaign trail. we'll dig into that and what he did and didn't get right. plus the latest on james comey who violated fbi policies according to the doj's own watchdog. what he is saying about the findings and what the president is now of course seizing upon. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. we call it the mother standard of care.

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it is a beautiful morning here in the nation's capital. the department of justice will not prosecute former fbi director james comey for leaking memos detailing his interactions with president trump. an inspector general report released yesterday found that comey violated doj and fbi policies including the fbi's employment agreement by keeping personal copies of his memos. one of those memos was released to the public by a friend of comey's after comey was fired by president trump in may of 2017. the report says quote, the responsibility to protect sensitive law enforcement information falls in large part to the employees of the fbi who have access to it through their daily duties. former director comey failed to live up to the responsibility. he goes on to add that comey set a quote dangerous example for

current and former fbi employees. ultimately however the watchdog report found no evidence that the information released to the public was classified, which led justice department officials to the decision not to prosecute. shortly after the dog watchdog report was released james comey claimed vindication. he wrote in a stinging rebuke aimed at the president, quote, i don't need a public apology from those who defamed me but a quick message with a sorry, we lied about you would be nice. comey went on to add, quote, and to all of those who spent two years talking about me going to jail or being a liar and a leaker ask yourselves why you still trust people who gave you bad info for so long. including the president. but president trump wasted no time attacking comey tweeting, quote, perhaps never in the history of our country has someone been more thoroughly disgraced and excoriated than

james comey in the just released inspector general's report. he should be ashamed of himself. and there was an official statement that called comey quote a proven liar and leaker words often used by the president himself. you almost want to laugh, joe. you almost want to laugh. >> actually, i couldn't stop from laughing. what an overstatement especially considering the source. let's bring in nbc news and msnbc law analyst and editor-in-chief of lawfare, ben wittes. he's out with a new piece diving into what the report says. what a fascinating report, about 80, 90% of it is jack webb, just the facts, ma'am, then the last 10% of the report reads like a talk radio script. the two don't go together. i guess though a lot of people

who supported hillary clinton might be chuckling this morning at the karma of it all. sort of reminds you of when comey himself said that hillary was not going to be indicted and then went on his own talk radio rant for ten minutes and indicted her politically. but this report -- i mean, coming from an inspector general, it was fairly shocked at how undisciplined he was with what our law professors would call dicta. >> yes, it's a work product and the first 52 pages are quite informative and a pretty dry recitation of the facts that we already knew and the reason we knew them is because jim comey has been nothing but up front about what he did. he wrote seven memos detailing

his interactions with president trump. he -- two of those memos he considered classified and left in the fbi but several of them he regarded as unclassified and he had them at his house and thought of as his own property and didn't return when he left or was removed from the fbi. one of those he turned around and asked a friend, not me, by the way, a friend named dan richman, to give to the substance to "the new york times" and some others he gave to his lawyers. those were the facts, those were always the facts and the first 50 some odd pages of the report lays out in great detail and in greater detail than most people want to read and then the last ten pages are a howl of rage and anger by the inspector general that is really -- you know, it takes a remarkable position in

my opinion anyway that it is inappropriate for the former director of the fbi to blow the whistle on the president's efforts to shut down the michael flynn investigation and to me the remarkable thing about this report is that the inspector general of the justice department has effectively taken the position that if you're a law enforcement officer and the president tries to shut down a valid investigation, your obligation is to shut up. >> you know, that's what i was going to ask you. if i was misreading the conclusion of this. you know, in an inaccurate way, because that's what he says. it's a reckless conclusion and suggests that law enforcement officers if they believe the president of the united states has committed a crime, then they should shut up and they should

cover up. and it's just a reminder, benjamin, there never really was a determination on whether this was a crime or not. in fact, the mueller report suggests that they could draw no conclusion on whether the president obstructed justice or not. simply because he was president of the united states. so the question is, why would the ig come to this conclusion, first of all, and secondly, if this was such a violation of the public trust why didn't the attorney general do what he knows would gain the president's favor more than even writing him a $30,000 check this christmas and not bring charges against james comey? >> yeah. so i mean, i think the conclusion on the point that you just mentioned is genuinely

bewildering. the ig sort of chides comey for kind of not going through channels in raising the concerns about, you know, oval office meeting in which the president asked him to shut down the michael flynn investigation. and, you know, i sort of scratch my head and say exactly what channel is he supposed to have gone through. is he supposed to have complained to the attorney general? well, the attorney general was just recused. is he supposed to complain to the deputy attorney general, the deputy attorney general had just arranged with the president to help fire him. is he supposed to complain to the president? the president is the subject of the concern. so what exactly are you supposed to do if you're the former fbi director who has this explosive information that is, by the way, not classified, and you have all

the channels have failed. that strikes me as the sort of quintessential example of a situation in which talking to the press or in this case having a friend convey some information to a responsible reporter is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. and the ig's position is, you know, to sort wag his finger and say this violates your employment agreement and it violates fbi policy and i guess to that i say like, you know, in such a situation a foolish consistency with policy really would be the hobgoblin of small minds. i'm actually a little bit surprised that that's the position the ig takes. >> ben, susan del percio here. we talk about the ig report and how it affects comey on a big

scale. but it also is setting precedent for doj and fbi policies. what happens when the next rank and file member has an issue whether with it's with their direct superior or one up and we see the politicization that we just did from the ig report, where do they go? how does this affect the doj and the rank and file people? >> i don't fault the ig for noting technical violations of policy in the employment agreement here. i think, you know, in the dispute between the ig and comey about who owns these memos, i think the ig probably has the better of the argument. you know, it's perfectly reasonable in my opinion for the ig to say no, actually, these were documents you created in your capacity as fbi director. and to remind rank and file people that in fact when you're working for the government and you create even unclassified

work product, that really does belong to the government not to you to do what you want with. what's extraordinary about the ig report is the volume that he turns up the criticism to without any regard to the extraordinary circumstances and he basically -- it reads like he wanted to find the comey had leaked classified information in a dangerous fashion. he couldn't find that because, you know, he didn't. and -- but he gets angry that way anyway. as though it had happened. and so i think the message to current workforce members is, you know, be a stickler for the details of compliance with technical rules even if the house is burning down, even if you're serving some awful larger

objective in doing so. and ignore things like conscience. >> hey, benjamin, it's jonathan lemire. james comey has been a central figure in the trump drama dating back to the news conference he held for hillary clinton for which received a rebuke from the release of the letter, reopening the investigation and of course everything with the mueller probe and his interactions with the president. are there more threads though to be followed here? are there more investigative matters that are going to be pursued or is this in some ways closing the book on the james comey era as part of what we have seen in the last couple of years in the context of donald trump's campaign and now presidency? >> you know, i think this is probably the last major piece of investigative work product about comey, but it isn't the last major piece of work product about the fbi in this period.

and under his leadership and the same ig who produced this document is also working on a big report which is apparently nearing completion concerning the fbi's handling of the material in the steele dossier and chris steele as an informant as well as the gfisa applicatio that resulted from this. my suspicion is it doesn't involve the behavior of comey because the director of the fbi is sort of not a central player in how an individual informant is handled. that's kind of a lower down the totem pole kind of question. but it definitely involves the way the fbi under comey conducted the early stages of the russia investigation. in addition, i think most people and i'm certainly one of them,

am expecting an indictment in the next few days or weeks of andrew mccabe, comey's former deputy fbi director. and that will put front and center mccabe's behavior in the same period that this all -- all of this stuff is going on. in the form of a potential criminal trial. so i think, you know, comey's individual role may be, you know, on the wane as a subject of discussion but i don't think we're through with sort of the fbi as a subject yet. >> okay. ben, thank you for reading and analyzing that for us. still ahead the must read opinion page including gene's new piece on something he says could get trump kicked out of office. "morning joe" will be right back. we're reporters from the new york times.

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first of all, mr. president, we don't work for you. i don't work for you. my job is to cover you. not fawn over you or rip you. just report on you. to call balls and strikes on

you. my job, mr. president, our job here is to keep the score, not settle scores. now, in my case, to report that the economic numbers when they're good and when they're bad. when the markets are soaring and when they're tumbling. when trade talks look like they're coming together and when they look like they're falling apart. it is called being fair and balanced, mr. president. but you're not a fan when that balance includes stuff you don't like to hear or facts you don't like to have questioned. >> is donald trump losing fox news? that was neil cavuto pushing back against his criticism of the network's coverage. responding on the air yesterday to trump's tweet earlier this week that proclaimed fox isn't working for us anymore. gene robinson, your latest piece is titled trump's trade war can get him kicked out of office. president trump is conducting his trade war with china as

though it were a zero sum gain but it's not. it's a negative, both sides lose. it's clear that his gambit on tariffs and bombast is hurting both economies. the question is, who can more stoically withstand the pain an autocrat or a democratically elected candidate who must face the voters in 14 months time. with all of his tariffs and tirades trump has managed to do one thing -- give chinese leader xi jinping the upper hand. if he's losing trump and the other conservatives who don't like the trade war, if this is the turning point. we heard people saying, we liked what he did on the regulation, but we don't like the trade war and he has to do something

perhaps he's going to lose their support like he lost neil cavuto's. >> yeah, despite the fact that republicans in congress have slavishly gone along with everything the president has done on the trade war, despite their long standing opposition to tariffs, their long standing in favor of free trade, et cetera, et cetera it's not the case that all sort of republican leaning people and institutions in the country like the chamber of commerce and other business groups and business people, it's not the case that they're thrilled by what is basically economic self-immolation. it's clearly hurting the u.s. economy as well as the chinese economy and to what end? and it just -- it just struck me that what he has effectively done, the self-proclaimed artist of the deal has given his

adversary enormous power over donald trump's own political future. xi jinping can now decide whether he wants to make a deal or not. just suffer the economic pain, let the economic situation deteriorate here. decrease donald trump's chances of getting re-elected and that is now xi's decision, not donald trump's decision. >> so there are two things going on at once. first of all, the president and his relationship with fox news which seems to have soured in recent weeks. he still speaks to a number of the anchors off air. you know, private conversations, lou dobbs in particular is his top informal adviser and he still speaks to sean hannity and tucker carlson quite a bit and he's leaned on them for foreign policy advice if that's to be believed. but he's grown concerned that he feels like fox should be on his side, that they should be part of the party apparatus.

they should be part of the white house communications office and has grown upset when he feels like, you know, commentators are criticizing him or when the polls don't reflect kindly upon him. he has been elevating time and time again oan which is the other conservative network as an alternative to that. but beyond that there's a growing concern among -- within the white house and concerns at large about the fate of this -- of this trade war. where this is going. that this could be the thing that undermines his best chance for re-election because the chinese do seem inclined to weigh him out. there's far less pressure for them to make a deal while the clock is ticking for the president's re-election efforts. so susan, let me ask you from. from what you're hearing out there, talking to other conservatives particularly those in some of the key battleground midwest states is there expectation that at some point the president will cut a deal, even if perhaps it's not the best deal, but one he can spin

as a win, and do you think that would be enough to keep their support and sort of alleviate their concerns about the trade deal and the impact it's having on the economy? >> actually, right now, jonathan, people are worried he's going to cut a bad deal just to get himself out of this situation to get the headlines out. we went from being donald trump thinking america first and it sounded good to farmers and other people involved in the trade war. to america alone. when we have a global economic slowdown and we have these tariff wars, it's disaster for manufacturers and farmers in this country. add to that eugene touched on it the chambers of commerce and business groups are not happy with this trade war. nor are they happy with the president's immigration policies. because they also need workers. so this is all starting to unravel for the president. and again, i think at this point, knowing there's only 14 months to go, he may make a very

bad deal that these farmers can't work themselves out. especially in the swing states it will difficult for the president. >> yeah, axios is out this morning with a report on worker deserts in certain states because of the president's immigration policies. places like iowa, new hampshire, florida. all of course states that the president might be interested in in the next election and the iowa business council coming out with a report critical of immigration policies that are not giving them enough workers. the thing they need is more workers not less. coming up next, the president's personal assistant steps down abruptly. we'll have the story behind her departure next. ♪ (music plays throughout)

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trump's personal assistant mad sin westerhout abruptly resigned after serving as his gatekeeper since the beginning of the administration. westerhout's unexpected departure came after trump learned she shared with reporters intimate details about the first family and the oval office operations. according to one of the people familiar with her departure, the breach of trust meant westerhout was a separated employee and would not be allowed to return to the without. "the times" notes that she reportedly cried on election night because she was upset over trump's victory. as such, the president at first viewed her as a quote late convert to his cause who could not be trusted. i mean, jonathan lemire, if you have someone blabbing about your family who reporters, who cried when you were elected you have to wonder why she's there in the first place and isn't he right to get rid of her? >> good question, katty.

she has ties to the rnc as "the times" roz recorded was seen in tears on election night and we can vouch for that. who was viewed by the president in the inner circle initially. but during the transition we all remember that camera shot into the trump tower lobby as he'd parade appointees in and out. she was escorting them upstairs and during those moments, she was someone who spent a lot of time with the president, who warmed to her. she ended up indeed with a desk just outside the oval office. she was his gate keeper in many ways. former chief of staff john kelly in particular relied on her to sort of navigate the grand central station like atmosphere of the oval office and to maintain a sense of order with the president's schedule. look, off the record conversations between the administration staff and reporters that happens. goes town the personal family details that's a breach too far.

she was asked to resign and she was gone within a day or so of the president learning what happened. and i suspect that this would be an issue for any administration but particularly one that's such an adversarial relationship with the press and is concerned about leaks. >> if someone leaks information about a family matter, then they have to be released immediately. >> yeah. >> so i don't think anybody is surprised by this. now, on the crying on election night part, being said because donald trump won, i mean, if that kept people out of the white house then melania wouldn't be there herself because famously she cried after she learned that donald trump had been elected president as well as did half of america. coming up next, another campaign flub from joe biden. "the washington post" is calling him out, but the front-runner insists he said nothing wrong. plus, senator chris murphy is going to be our guest after being denied a visa to visit

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>> that's donald trump of course talking to the good people of puerto rico several the -- oh, wait a second. no, he actually tweeted some pretty nasty tweets at puerto rico when the storm was approaching them. that's donald trump talking to the good people of florida. a swing state in next year's election who are -- boy, they are just in the bull's eye of a historic storm. a category 4 storm. it is projected to be a category 4, hitting right in central florida. welcome back to "morning joe." friday, august 30th. with us still, we have washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay. pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson. republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan del percio. white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire. and joining the conversation, professor of history at tulane university, walter isaacson. mika has the morning off.

we begin with hurricane dorian getting stronger and forecasters saying it can hit florida as an extremely dangerous cat 4 hurricane in the coming days. it intensified to the category 2 last night and as of right now there are no evacuation orders in place but the entire state of florida is under a state of emergency. let's go right now to meteorologist bonnie schneider for hurricane dorian's latest track. bonnie? >> well, joe, hurricane dorian is a category 2 storm with strong winds and it is likely to intensify. you can see there was quite a bit of wind shear to the south of the storm but it's encountering a favorable development for rapid development and that's what we're expecting. when you see rapid intensification of the storms we see the winds increase by 30 miles an hour within 24 hours. the track has just shifted, look at this. this system has slowed down.

we are talking about not a monday landfall. it was originally a sunday one, but a category 4 potentially for south florida and the landfall has been pushed off till tuesday at 2:00 in the morning. keep in mind this is going to shift and change as we continue to work our way through the next couple of days. once you go out beyond five days you start to see a strong area, so anyone in the cone of uncertainty needs to stay prepared and needs to keep watching the latest fore hurricane dorian. >> thank you so much. walter, a cat 4, 140 miles an hour, intensifying as a resident of new orleans, native of new orleans, don't have to ask your advice. it's time fairly soon for those people affected to get out, right? >> yeah. one of the things that's happening in hurricanes these days is that they're dumping a whole lot more water, including just tropical storms are doing it. as part of climate change. also i think, you know, we're

not as good at flood control. this storm is a category -- it will be a category 4 so that's a real storm. and i think it's important for those of us in the news media not to overhype storms like hurricane barry earlier this summer. that was a category 0. because when people get hit with a potential category 4, they really should do something and we have to quit crying wolf when we -- you know, because it makes the good ratings. this is a serious storm. it's pretty compact and it's doing an odd turn. it is going, you know, it is not going up north the way that storms do when they usually hit the atlantic coast. so you have to watch this storm. orlando, places like that are going to be hit. and they'll probably wander into the gulf of mexico after that. >> yeah. looks they way. could stall over the state of florida for a day or two which of course has happened before and it causes real problems.

jonathan lemire, let's talk about the president deciding to stay in country and not going to poland. several reasons i believe that's a good idea. first of all, presidents should not be flying out of the country when category 4s come and a lot of foreign policy analysts concerned about the event he was going to in poland. what can you tell us about the president's decision? >> this trip initially was going to include a stop in denmark that got scuttled a week or so back when denmark announced that green land was not for sale. which apparently was the president's reason for going. the poland part of it though was something he had previously told aides he was looking forward to. and this is a president known not to do much international travel. he is well received well there. he was going to participate in the world war ii commemoration this weekend, but yes, there was a suggestion that it was going to be turning into a little bit of a celebration of more sort of right wing policies and some of the -- sort of the more

authoritarian tendencies of eastern european governments we have seen there and there were some who thought that the president particularly coming off of a rather rocky performance at the g7 may end up sort of delivering some bad headlines. so i think there was some people around him and in the global capitals who are relieved he's not going. to your point, any president, this one or others, very mindful of the optics of seeming to be out of town when a major event happens. the president should be, you know, in washington and be able to sort of oversee the federal response to what could be a major storm. he has made the decision to do that here, you know, and as noted there might be a political angle. florida is a swing state. this is the potential of a storm to bring some rain and damage to his palm beach club, mar-a-lago. >> and katty, while we're talking about the 2020 campaign, let's talk about the democratic side. joe biden making news again in a way that the biden campaign

would just as soon he not make headlines over. >> yeah. the former vice president and 2020 candidate is defending the central point of a war story that he told on the campaign trail last week. after a report that the washington -- by "the washington post" claimed many of the details were wrong. according to "the post," during a stop in new hampshire last friday he quoted quote, jumbled elements of at least three actual events into one story of bravery, compassion and regret that never actually happened. >> young navy captain -- navy, navy, up in the mountains in afghanistan, one of his buddies got shot, fell down a ravine about 60 feet. the four star general asked me to go up into the fob and now everybody got concerned of the vice president going up in the middle of this.

we can lose a vice president but can't lose many more of the kids. this kid climbed down in the ravine, carrying this guy on his back under fire. and the general wanted me to pin the silver star on him. i got up there and this is the god's truth, my word as a biden, he stood at attention. said, sir, do not pin it on me sir, do not do that. he died. he died. >> so "the washington post" report reads like this. in the space of three minutes, biden got the time period, the location, the heroic act, the type of medal, the military branch and the rank of the recipient wrong as well as his own role in the ceremony. according to "the post," he visited the province in afghanistan as a u.s. senator, not as vice president. and the service member who performed the celebrated rescue that biden described there was a 20-year-old army specialist, not a navy captain.

and that soldier kyle j. white never had a silver star or any other medal pinned on him by biden. after that article was published, biden then spoke with "washington post" opinion columnist jonathan capehart and he suggested he was telling the story of chad workman who received a medal from the vice president in 2011 and didn't believe he deserved it although none of the details he offered -- almost none of the details he offered matched what happened to workman. >> i was making the point how courageous these people are. how incredible they are. this generation of warriors. these fallen angels we have lost. and so that -- i don't know what the problem is. i mean what is it that i said wrong? >> biden also defended himself in an interview with the post and courier, and he said it was accurate, and biden did acknowledge there are two different stories that he likes

to tell. he said quote there was one that relays to -- relates to the forward operating base and a separate one where i went on the streets of afghanistan where a young man pulled someone from the burning humvee. but asked if he conflated the details of those stories, biden said no. i don't think so. joe, what do you make of this? >> well, you know, these sort of stories are following joe biden around a good bit. not just because of this campaign but also because of past campaigns. i'm smiling because politicians and preachers and hollywood screenwriters have often jumbled the best of two or three stories into one story that they use to make a much larger point. that doesn't forgive it. but, you know, gene robinson,

somebody compared this to what hillary clinton did in bosnia where she was talking about taking gun fire or many of the lies donald trump tells about himself. the only thing -- only difference and perhaps it's an insignificant difference in the larger scheme of things. here biden tells the story to lift up others. >> yeah. >> to glorify others. in the case of hillary in bosnia or donald trump every day on twitter, those exaggerations are to lift themselves up. maybe that's too fine of a point. i just don't think many voters are going to say i'm not going to vote for joe biden because he jumbled up two or three acts of heroism by two or three women to praise them. boy, i'm shocked and disgusted. >> i don't think that's a small or insignificant point, the

distinction between trying to make yourself look brave and heroic when you weren't and celebrating and recognizing the heroism of service members in these impossible situations. and biden was trying to do the latter. i frankly don't think this has any impact at all really on democratic primary voters at this point. for two reasons. first, biden is going to be biden. i mean, this is joe biden. and second, look, i'll just be honest. i have had the experience of giving a speech to a group and telling, you know -- telling a story and then later looking back at notes or figure -- or figuring out somehow, wow, you know, i kind combined stuff.

i wasn't actually you know in this place that day, i was in the other place. but basically i was kind of telling the truth. i don't -- so i don't think this is a big deal. kind of -- it's kind of interesting, but biden is right that the thrust of this story and what he was trying to say about the bravery of our service members came across. that's what he was trying to say. he should maybe get a staff member to do a little research on some of these stories. >> yeah. maybe so. i think also for a lot of people that have told -- as we -- as many speeches as you have given and as many speeches as you have given, once or twice i have taken a little of this or that and especially on self-deprecating stories and maybe it wasn't my dad that mocked me. maybe it was my son that morning that mocked me. but it fit better if another sort of family member was

mocking me -- >> someone was mocking you. >> as i run for congress. >> never let the facts get in the way of a good story. i mean -- >> exactly. the important thing here, walter isaacson, is we'll get to mike memoli in one second who is following joe biden for some time. but walter isaacson again, nobody here is trying to forgive joe biden. because joe biden had the problem with the neil kinic story, because he had problems in the past of exaggerating, in that case it was to glorify himself. in this case it was to glorify the u.s. troops. but even that being said, it seems the burden is much higher on joe biden to be exact, even in the stories he's telling to glorify others. >> absolutely. we're doing an unfair narrative here which is we're saying, okay, joe biden does gaffes so

we can jump on anything in a way to be balanced. this is nothing like what trump is doing which is telling an unintentional untruth. as a historian and biographer, trust me, i talk to so many people who conflate stories not to glorify themselves but that's the way our memory works. malcolm glad well did a wonderful podcast on this, but i'm here in new orleans. i have told the story of coming back in the helicopter when i was part of the louisiana recovery authority right after the storm and circling and seeing the water around the superdome. i just asked a few nights ago some friend of mine, sarah, remind me were there still bodies around the superdome and you have to keep the story straight. sometimes things conflate.

i have seen that in history, i told harry truman not to drop the bomb, but what we do know about joe biden he does care about troops. he visits troops. he got in trouble for mixing up sandy hook and parkland but he cares. he meets with all of the student so i think the essential truth here is that he really cares about the bravery of our soldiers. he cares about kids exposed to gun violence and the fact that he does what you and i and all of us do is mish-mash up some stories that makes him human, not a bad person. >> yeah. you can say the same thing about 9/11. you talk to reporters who were down on 9/11 and they have certain memories of that day. that sometimes they have to check as well. again, all of this is not to say that it's fine that joe biden is conflating two or three stories. as i have said the burden is a much higher burden for the vice

president because of his past. just saying this is not the same as saying you were under fire in bosnia or saying all the things that donald trump says about himself on twitter every day. let's bring in right now nbc news correspondent mike memoli. mike, you have been following joe biden for a long time. joe is not only a politician, not only an irishman as he would say who loves to tell stories, he is a biden. that is a triple play when it comes to being a colorful storyteller. i mean, those three things are lined up. but it's gotten him in trouble in the past. does he understand it could really get him in trouble this year as well? >> yeah, joe, i think we have to establish what this story is and what this story isn't. it's not as you rightfully point out the hillary clinton recounting of landing under

sniper fire in bosnia. we know that the former vice president both as a senator in 2008 traveled to the coe gnar valley and also traveled to the forward operating business in the province. this is often something that the president or vice president doesn't leave bagram air force base or the palace. he is not inventing a memory out of whole cloth. if you read further in this story as you point out army sergeant chad -- staff sergeant chad workman, workman himself is quoted as saying that he remembers this moment when the vice president pinned a service medal on him telling him he doesn't deserve it. that's what we see. but it's of course as you say he appears to be conflating different stories and he tends to relate to his audiences by

collections of anecdotes. you saw him, it was a very intense bit of storytelling and he's pacing around the room, dramatically telling this story and the attention on this reflects something i hear from democrats all the time which is that we have no margin or the error in taking on donald trump. they're concerned that whoever the nominee is, that they have too many flaws too many vulnerabilities that the president can expose. the headline that a lot of us were writing about immediately was the story he went on to tell about where he asked the audience to imagine what would have happened if barack obama had been assassinated, something that was jarring to us in the room. a day later the vice president said he was in vermont, rather than new hampshire. the moments are magnified because of the concern that the democrats have and the margin for error on whoever the nominee is. >> let me bring in gene and walter. you two and i are the only three people who were probably old enough to remember this.

but this reminds me of another irish politician who would drive his staff crazy by making up anecdotes, exaggerating things that he read. in reader's digest. >> what a great politician he was. >> ronald reagan. reagan believed, you know, in storytelling and sometimes he didn't get the facts exactly right. he famously i think it was 1976 when he was running against ford said that trees are the biggest emitters of co2 in the world and people -- his opponents would hang signs around trees when he'd give speeches that said, stop me before i kill again. but gene robinson, i mean, it seemed to happen every week with reagan and again i'm not saying it's right. i'm just saying that the bigger truths from the stories he told connected with audiences much like joe biden talking about the valor of men and women in uniform.

>> right. yeah, didn't really hurt ronald reagan. he did rather well in politics and i just -- i don't think this incident, this is not going to hurt joe biden, i don't think. this is who he is, he was making a point that was a valid point for him to make out of -- and he was -- he's doing this out of his valid true experiences. he was just sort of, you know, sort of a mashup of some experiences. you know, it would behoove him to be careful because people are so -- you know, hyper alert to this. particularly with him. so you know, i think he ought to fact check himself some. but i don't think it's a big deal. >> yeah. walter? >> i was covering ronald reagan, believe it or not, that's how old i am. i was working for "time" magazine and at the risk of

being fact checked and found out i was wrong i think i remember being there when he was talking about trees causing pollution. i think one of my first stories for "time" where did he get those facts? but when i watched ronald reagan, he connected with people. with those anecdotes. it was clear that he cared about the people he was talking to. and joe biden is just that way. and what i really don't like is this sort of self-perpetuating, justifying way of thinking which is to say, well, everybody is worried about joe biden causing gaffes that might be bad. so let's cover every single gaffe he covers whether -- you know, that he makes. whether it's going this way or what side of the border of a state line he is. if somebody covered any of us that way it would cause concern. so i think we should get off the

high horse and saying we're doing this because people are concerned about, no, we're making into something this should not be. joe biden is fundamentally an honest and a decent person who cares. just like ronald reagan was caring and decent as a person. >> yeah. so susan del percio though, again, it seems that because of joe biden's past he has a responsibility. i mean, he's politically a member of a suspect class as a politician first of all. and secondly he has history from the '88 campaign and even from 2008 of saying things that he shouldn't have said. doesn't he have to show extra care? >> he does, and the bidenisms are fine and they happen and i get it. but the problem that's happening to joe biden is that it's cumulative. since he's launched his campaign, he had one poor debate

performance and one not okay debate performance. so it's taking a lot of energy to explain joe biden to everybody else and the mistakes he makes. meanwhile, on the other side, you have folks like elizabeth warren or kamala harris, cory booker, sanders, they're all going out there and they're not under the same scrutiny but they're not getting caught up in this. joe biden has to worry more about donald trump. he has to get through this primary and i wonder how long the other campaigns will allow biden to keep walking away from these mistakes without calling him out on it. >> well, mike memoli, let me ask you if the biden campaign believes they're unfairly targeted, that the press is looking for every little gaffe and holding him actually to a higher standard than they hold most other politicians? >> yeah, that's absolutely the case. we saw kate betting field, the deputy campaign manager pressing andrea mitchell on the very point, you ought to be giving

the same kind of scrutiny to other candidates. but i can only speak to the person i cover which is the former vice president. i will say, you know, in terms of him relating to the audience this was a moment in the room where it began with a question simply about mental health. and the president could have responded with, you know, a dry recitation of his policy proposals but he wants to personlize the issues. he went on to talk about his son who served in iraq. i traveled to iraq with the vice president in 2016 and he repeatedly referred to his son. so this is just the way that joe biden campaigns but i remember also as soon as he told this story with all of the details in it looking to a colleague and saying this is going to get him in trouble just because of what you say, what is this intense scrutiny on him and probably not every single detail of the story going to line up. >> yeah. all right, mike memoli, thank you as always. we appreciate you being with us. i hope you'll come back very soon. and still ahead on "morning

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you are getting worried about elizabeth warren's crowds? >> so that's another thing. i have crowds that are many times what her crowds are. nobody talks about them. with her the other day they said she had 15, if you count them up it looked like 8 or 9. the biggest stories are her crowd, that's a small crowd for me. there's a double standard. >> it is always with the president about crowd size. president trump there paying more attention to senator elizabeth warren and joining us now the cofounder of axios, mike

allen. mike, axios is looking at the massachusetts democrat's unexpected advantage in the 2020 presidential primary field. you talk about how she gets a ton of coverage, not much criticism. clearly that has reached the president. he's not happy about it. >> that's right. >> what's her advantage there? >> well, good morning. it shows what elizabeth warren has pulled off what every politician dreams of. online she's talked about a lot, but not the victim of sustained criticism or media pile ons. if you look at over the last four months, the stories that have gotten the most interactions online, sort of retweets and shares, likes, comments the most positive ones are by far going to elizabeth warren. what's unique about her coverage, all those policy proposals are a little bit of a shield for her. instead of being ripped -- people writing about like side

issues, people love the aura of the policy proposals. so look at these headlines. i want to live in elizabeth warren's america. that's a "new york times" headline -- columnist. elizabeth warren is completely serious. the new york times profile talks about her proposals. these are the stories online getting the traction and the attention and on the left she's shielded by bernie sanders. he gets the criticism about the liberalness of the policies. >> hey, mike it's jonathan lemi lemire. you're right. elizabeth warren has been talked about on shows, on this one as being on the rise, complimenting her campaign. she has -- her organization is top notch particularly in iowa. so the question is twofold. she is on one hand surging, on the other hand she is pretty far behind joe biden in most polls so what's the explanation for that? and do you think there's some other hidden data that suggests

she could have another surge coming particularly if she has a strong showing at the next debate when she finally gets to stand next to joe biden? >> jonathan a great point and we have been pointing out how solid the biden numbers have been over time. what we're seeing here a little bit is the difference between the online world and the real world. and sometimes we forget there are -- those are two different things. the online world of course it drives activists, drives donors which at this moment is what these campaigns are super focused on. that doesn't necessarily mean it's crossed into the big electorate that shows up in polls. >> walter, we have been talking about the kind of criticism that joe biden gets for mashing up together two stories. now, you compare that the -- to the lack of criticism so far elizabeth warren has had to be subjected to. at what point do you think that shifts? a what point does she become the

focus of more media scrutiny that could be harmful for her? >> as you know -- >> walter. >> okay. >> walter isaacson. >> okay, you'll see something fundamentally different because biden and warren who seem like now the two people contending most closely for the nomination are fundamentally different in their personalities. warren is giving you plans. she's a very rigorous thinker who has thought through every policy. you ask her a question, you get a policy answer. joe biden as we just said is a storyteller. and he connects emotionally and sometimes i think these gaffes don't hurt him. because when he makes those gaffes people say, hey, he's normal. he's a person like me. so i think elizabeth warren can use a little bit more of that ability to be a storyteller and connect emotionally. i think joe biden could use a lot more of that ability of

elizabeth warren to think rigorously. and so i'd throw it back to you all which is the real question for me is whether elizabeth warren can give those anecdotes. i have seen her do it. she does it sometimes that connect emotionally and i think that's more important for her than avoiding gaffes. >> mike allen, your take. >> yeah, walter makes a great point and elizabeth warren has exceeded expectations and people knew that she was strong on policy. but she has connected with these crowds. built these crowds. has amazing personal story going back to her childhood, that she can play up on one. one thing we can be sure as she rises the scrutiny and the deconstruction of every word she says will increase. >> mike allen, the warren wave, thank you. coming up, foreign interference is one of the most urgent threats ahead of 2020. one of our next guests has a four step agenda for protecting

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joining us now former undersecretary of state is rick stengel and msnbc contributor clint watts and professor of management at mit sinan aral, the author of "the hype machine, how social media disrupts our world." he's co-author of a new article for science magazine to understand when foreign interference affects our elections. professor aral, you have a whole blueprint for trying to assess mow social media is being impacted by foreign influences and what to do about it. >> what we know so far, russian misinformation reached 126 million people on facebook, 20 million on instagram, 10 million tweets on twitter. we know that 27% of americans saw misinformation in the final

weeks before the 2016 election. is it possible that it tipped the 2016 election? it's possible. do we know whether it did or didn't, we don't know because we aren't measuring it. and the purpose of this article is to describe the fact that it is imminently measurable we can know going forward what the effect of these types of misinformation campaigns are on the elections and it's our civic duty. i mean, robert mueller who is the most understated man in washington has testified it's the greatest challenge to democracy he's ever seen or among them and christopher wray is saying that the threat is just escalating. >> sinan, one of the things we were chatting about before hand you have been monitoring this for a while. that the messaging the russians were doing was a template for what they did in 2016. can you talk about that a little bit? >> yes. so we described -- i describe in

my book essentially that the misinformation campaign in crimea had a two-pronged strategy. first they were essentially suppressing pro crimean ukrainian voices and bloggers by essentially reporting them to facebook and other platforms as being abuse or other things so that they would be banned. then they were spreading misinformation like for instance that, you know, jews were required to essentially register with the government. that russia was going to be eliminated as a national language, so on. these types of messages were designed to change the perception of the reality on the ground for the international community as well as for the domestic community. >> so sinan, one of the toughest things i had in the past couple of years trying to explain what happens on social media doesn't just happen on social media,

right, things in the physical world really influence us. one of the key things that russia did was hack and release from the dncc, john podesta's emails at specific times. can we parse out when russia does something like that or a campaign or russia amplifies that, how do you go about doing that? is it possible? >> this is the combination of hacking and the release of information plus misinformation. we know that they targeted voting systems in all 50 states. that they target campaigns. and we know that they organize protests through social media manipulation. the question is what is the effect of all of these behaviors on causing behavior change in voting and voter turnout. how does it change people's perceptions and people's actual

behavior in voting booths or in protests? we believe that's measurable. using techniques that have been known for the last ten years that are simply not being applied to election data. >> this is walter isaacson, i have a question for rick. rick, i have read the galleys of your great book, it's a wonderful book that's coming out in a month or so but you tried to explain why we the united states had trouble countering this. why was that? >> well, walter, thank you first of all. i mean, your question has in a sense the answer contained in it. because there is no countering disinformation. one of the things that the u.s. government does is if there's something that the u.s. government doesn't like, they put the word counter in front of it and one of the things we tried to do in 2014 and 2015 when we started a counter

russian information in the state department was to do the same thing back to them they were doing to us. no, your mother wears army boots to date myself. but what happens is that's what they like. they want you to get down in the dirt with them and they're better at it than we are. and one of the things that we realized when we talked this morning, they're not terribly sophisticated as they weren't trying to reach a sophisticated audience. remember, no tweet from a russian troll in st. peters berg is going to change hillary clinton's voting to suddenly a donald trump voter because of a tweet. it's very hard for governments to counter and to undermine this. as i say in the book, as you know i say we don't have a fake news problem, we have a media literacy problem. we don't teach people how to evaluate things that are fact or fictional. >> we talk a lot about what government can or can't do. there's cities and

municipalities that are getting hit by criminals all the time looking for ransom. what happens when they're looking to manipulate our elections, because i know that cities protect their information that way a lot more stringent than they do their board of elections typically because there's a lot of other issues involved. so how -- what's being done if anything to stop that attack? >> this is our soft underbelly of the i.t. is the state and the local infrastructure. we have seen ransomware attacks from baltimore, basically spread out all across the country, local municipalities and you saw them say this is what we're worried about because the second wave of the russians was the election rigged voter fraud, hitting the voter rolls given the perception that democracy is a fraud. here's what's different from 2016. russian is one of many now. everyone has looked at this and the one thing about the mueller

report is if we don't defend the election and election infrastructure that's a blue print for how to attack america. you can look at the gaps so you can be a domestic political actor, could be many international actors, russia, iran, china. they can all use this. this is what dhs was warning about, hit the election systems two or three days before and you wouldn't be able to have a vote at all. i think that's a broader part of this, we know a lot more about russia. maybe we can measure it going in this from a foreign actor. but even internally are we prepared? dhs is aware of it, but they have to go through 50 different states to get that done. that's a huge exercise for them to do. >> don't forget, the future of misinformation is very different. the advance of deep fake technology it's not going to be

textural, but technology. >> and they're moving so fast. look at those who get the disinformation and how they vote is so important. dr. sinan aral, thank you for coming in. we'll be looking for your new article in science magazine. still ahead, john mccain was a persona non grata in russia and he wore that as a badge of honor. senator chris murphy has now also been denied entry to that country. so how would he feel about vladimir putin paying a visit to the g7 next year? the connecticut democrat joins us ahead on "morning joe." the weather's perfect...

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comcast business. beyond fast. after 18 years of war, 18, the outgoing chairman of joint chiefs of staff says afghan forces still need u.s. troop support due to the level of, quote, violence that continues inside the country.

the comments came in the shadow of several runt suicide attacks in the country. it comes amid uncertainty about trump administration strategy, peace talks and troop levels. president trump addressed all of that yesterday. >> we're going to keep our presidency. we're producing that presence very substantially and we're going to have a presence. we're going to have high intelligence. and i will put this word out, and i've already said it, but if they did anything with afghanistan, we will come back with a force like they've never seen before. >> what is the threshold that you will tell that we're going to have? taliban thinks we're going down to zero. no. we're going down to 8,600 and then we'll make a determination there from what happens. we're going down to 8,600. we're bringing it down. we're not fighting the world. we're just policemen over there. we could win that war so fast if i wanted to kill 10 million

people. but we're bringing it down to -- if the deal happens. i don't know that it's going to happen. it's getting close. but who knows if it's going to happen. you know my attitude with those things, brian. it's what i do for a living. >> okay. let's take aside the 10 million people being killed because that's just not going to happen. but the president, rick, seems to be finding what every other president and commander and chief has found when it comes to afghanistan and to that region. it's a lot more complicated than just telling voters we're going to come back home because there is always this conflict between withdrawaling troops and allowing extremist forces to resume some of the territory, particularly in afghanistan. at the moment, we're on top of the taliban. we've recently seen the resurgence of isis and islamic state extremists. .that could make things more complicated if the president wanted to withdraw american forces. >> yes. let's for the sake of argument

say it is a good decision. of course, donald trump was the guy who said all along, i don't like to telegraph what i'm doing and he criticized obama for making decisions where he would announce troop withdraws in advance. he's doing the exact same thing. it's massively unhelpful for him to use that refrain that he does that we could kill 10 million people there and win the war overnight. >> what is that? >> well, i have no idea what he even means about it and i don't even -- it makes me think he doesn't understand what the conflict is. we are in conflict. we are siding with the afghani government in conflict with the taliban. as you said, there's been a resurgence of isis there, as well. so it's a complicated thing. the settlement is a negotiated settlement with the taliban. that's what we need to do and that's why we need to keep a presence there. >> clint, it's jonathan lamere. the approximated has said time and time again that he wants all of those troops out of there and he's been convinced that the

u.s. should leave some sort of presence. but talk to me about why that actually is important, why this is the right decision. but also, what could the president be doing to lean on some regional partners, some other nations in the region to be doing more to sort of quell the uprising by both the isis and the taliban? yeah. the president is just now figuring out the hotel california problem of counter terrorism, which is you can check in whenever you want, but you can't leave because you have an enduring presence. this is why the war has gone on for 18 years. you have to stay in persistent engagement all around the world with these extremist groups or they rise up. he specifically said -- you know, there's know takings like you have to be strong all around the world to put this threat down. how do you get those remaining troops out? the answer is you probably

don't. this is the new way we fight wars all around the world. and the worst message to send to a soldier right now is to tell them that they're a policemen on the front lines. there's few things more the discouraging as a soldier to hear that you're just there buying time, which i hope the president would rethink his remarks. >> ask the brits, ask the russians, now the americans, the hotel california of wars. clint watts, thank you very much for joining us this morning. and coming up, we are continuing to track the path of hurricane dorian as it moves towards florida now. it is expected to intensify into a category 4 storm. residents all on high alert in this state. and recent polling suggests an overwhelming majority of voters want congress to do more to reduce gun violence. senator chris murphy has been in talks with the white house about coming to terms on meaningful reform. the connecticut democrat joins the conversation ahead on "morning joe." ♪ limu emu & doug

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i. hurricane dorian slammed into the caribbean capsizeding boats, but spared the islands from major disaster. now the storm has its eye on florida and is expected to hit the state as a dangerous category 4. the governor issuing this blunt warning. >> the time to act is now.

if you haven't acted, act to make preparations. do not wait until it's too late. >> hurricane dorian is getting stronger and forecasters say it could hit florida as an extremely dangerous category 4 hurricane in the coming days. dorian intensified to a category 2 last night. as of right now, there are no evacuation orders in place, but the entire state of florida is under an emergency. you can expect those evacuation orders to be coming sometime soon. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's friday, august 30th. this morning, we have with us washington anchor for bbc news america caddie kay, eugene robinson, jonathan lamere and

john harwood. mika has the morning off. we have a lot of politics to get to. also some international news. but first, let's go right to nbc meteorologist bonnie snyder for the hurricane's latest track. bonnie, it looks like dorian really is targeting south florida now. >> absolutely, joe. so much has happened overnight because even the latest physician statement that we just got in moments ago shows that dorian is still a category 2 storm, but maximum winds are now at 102 miles per hour. i've been watching this satellite loop closely and kz how the convection is bursting further to the north. to the south, we've had a lot of wind shear. but as the storm continues to move to the northwest, it is just coming over warm ocean waters and very little wind shear. not only that, but the water temperature is so warm at the surface, but also below. so you have warm, deep ocean water.

there's really nothing from preventing it to rapidly intensifying it. the definition of that is when it gets up to 35 miles per hour in speed in just 24 hours and that is exactly what dorian is forecast to do. let's take a closer look at the track. things have really changed and the storm is forecast to actually slow down. the bad news, pvk, it's forecast to be a category 4 storm, making landfall somewhere in the state of florida and staying so intense that it stays as a category 1. now, remember, there is that area of error, about 205 miles once you get to day five. but it's looking much more, i would say like the models, less of a spread really when we're looking at where this storm is going. and this is going to be a monumental historic storm as well as a category 4. joe. >> thank you so much, bonnie. we appreciate it. and president trump has canceled his trip to poland this weekend to monitor that storm. he says mike pence will be going

in his place. >> i have just spoken to president d yuda and expressed him my warmest wishes. and the wishes of the american people. our highest priority is the safety of the people in the path of the hurricane and i will be rescheduling my trip to poland in the near future. >> and here is part of the president's video message about the storm. it was posted on his twitter feed and was produced by the white house. >> we're ready. we have the best people in the world ready and they're going to help you. we're shipping food, we're shipping water, but it may be that you're going to evacuate. we're going to see what happens. we're waiting. >> caddie, i said a couple of days ago the contempt that he showed as the hurricane was approaching puerto rico would obviously be contrasted by the interest he would show as it was

approaching -- as it moved on and was approaching an important swing state for donald trump in next year's election. and here we see the president canceling a foreign trip, one where he would have been treated kindly, and putting out a video message of concerns and instructions. the contrast couldn't be more stark. >> yeah. he almost seemed to blame puerto rico for being in the eye of dorian just a few days ago, not much concern, and new he's going to cancel a trip. anyway, joe, he says it's because of dorian. and he wants to show concern for florida, but i suspect also he had no real interest, perhaps, in going to either poland or having canceled denmark already.

>> yeah. and jonathan, the president, it's not much of a secret inside the white house. the president does not like traveling abroad, never has. and so given any excuse not to go to europe again, that's a pretty easy choice for him, i suppose. but let's look at the other side of it. i had heard many foreign policy analysts concerned about him going over to a ceremony that had been repositioned by the polish government in a way that might actually celebrate or be seen as inspirational for some more concerning elements rising in central and eastern europe now. >> that the, joe. first of all, to your original point, this is a president who time and time again looks to cut trips short. we canceled a number of international trips in the past. white house reporters have known to -- one of the things you need to learn on this job is to buy

airline tickets because his plans change so often. and, yes, the original purpose was to go to denmark, as well, perhaps to purchase greenland while he was there. and after that snafu and that fell apart, there was some speculation that he would look to scuttle this trip here. and you're right, he was warmly received in poland his previous time there. he had told people he was earlier this month looking forward to going, but that may have changed. there was concern within as you said, about some of the elements that would be celebrated as part of this world war ii commemoration. and particularly on the world observers, particularly on the heels of another bull in a china shop from the g7 that we saw from the president. but this is for any president. and let's be clear. this could be a major storm. in the age, the last few decades, particularly post hurricane katrina was rightly

criticized for his administration's poor response to that storm. the president is clear from the optics here. it is looming. to be in washington, to be in the united states monitoring things, and, of course, why he might have a particular interest in this storm, florida, swing state, to doubt, but also at least for now, the track of the storm is headed straight for mar-a-lago, his club in south florida, which may, if forecast right, end up taking a lot of damage. so he has a personal interest in that, as well. >> a lot of damage and this storm, again, turning into a historic storm. so, caddie, we'll be following this story all morning long, but let's turn from domestic concerns to an international crisis that continues in hong kong. >> yes. the protests in hong kong have now reportedly been arrested as part of a crackdown in the

ongoing protests there. student leaders from 2014 pro democracy protests have been taking part. reports say they were arrested and they have now been released according to their political organization. another individual, the head of now banned pro independence party, he's also been detained and his current status, that's unclear. these arrests occurred just prior to a rally that's been planned for saturday to coincide with the fifth anniversary of china imposing strict limits on the hong kong elections. however, there are now new concerns that they would arrest protesters en masse. this is the 13th straight weekend of demonstrations in hong kong. jon, when we watch both -- here are these demonstrators, 13 weekends in a row. they show no signs of giving up. clearly, china now exerting firmer control over these demonstrations.

where does this lead, this clash between beijing and pro democracy protesters in hong kong? >> it's incredibly dangerous. and i think that's something that we've focused so much attention on the trade war between president trump and the chinese leadership that a -- this potential national security crisis going on right at the same time which threatens the future of hong kong and a spontaneous movement that has been going on for weeks demanding political rights is something that perhaps was inevitable since we had the hand over some years ago. i don't know where it's headed and i think everyone is fearing an ultimate chinese crackdown. but so far, they have not used violence. president trump has fairley mildly suggested that they not do that. it hasn't been a very stern

talking to that he's administered to xi, but we don't know where this is going. still ahead, two big headlines this morning. one surrounding jeffrey epstein and the other on immigration. we'll get you prepped on those latest developments next on "morning joe." i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved... ...90% clearer skin at 4 months... ...after just 2 doses. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections... ...and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection... ...or symptoms such as fevers,... ...sweats, chills, muscle aches or coughs... ...or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. i feel free to bare my skin. visit skyrizi.com. has four levels of defenseremium gasoagainst gunk, wear, corrosion and friction. that helps keep your engine running like new. it's fuel for thought.

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the federal judge overseeing the jeffrey epstein prosecution has formally ended the case against the sex trafficker. prosecutors asked the case to be dismissed following his death. the end of the criminal cascase, however, does not affect any civil claims brought by victims against epstein's estate or the federal grand jury investigation

into circumstances surrounding his death by suicide in a manhattan jail earlier this month. according to the "new york times," epstein is accused in civil suits of relying on an organized network of underlings, those who trained girls how to sexually pleasure him, recruiters who ensured he always had a fresh supply of teenage girls on the ready. even reading that it sounds so disgusting. none of epstein's coconspirators have been charged or named in lawsuits. but federal authorities are including charges that include sex trafficking and sex trafficking conspiracy. this suit against his estate, susan, having heard these women and their incredibly painful testimonies this week in court, can this suit against the estate bring them any kind of justice, do you think? >> i don't think they'll see justice. i think they're just trying to get some kind of recognition for what they've gone through.

and the suffering this has caused. one other thing i'd like to talk about, and when you mentioned the ongoing cases, don't forget the public corruption unit of the southern district of new york is the one who investigated and brought this forward. i'm curious to see what other shoes may drop as far as other potential elected officials or people in public positions that maybe they knew in new york, for example, that jeffrey epstein wasn't checking in as he was supposed to and perhaps investigating what went on in florida. i think there's going to be some news around there pretty soon. >> yeah. and a lot of focus, of course, on glenn maxwell, where she is and what she would have to say about all this. the trump administration is now ending an obama administration policy that let's immigrants stay in the country while they or their relatives

receive life saving treatments. however, without making it public, along with the department of homeland security have quietly rejected all requests to defer deportation, except those made by certain military members or veterans. a spokesman for citizenship and immigration services said requests for deferred action must now be made to immigration and customs enforcement. but an i.c.e. official said that the department had not been notified in advance about the change and question the agency's ability to assume that role. in a statement an i.c.e. spokesperson says add with any request for deferred action, i.c.e. reviews each case on its own merits and exercises appropriate discretion after reviewing all of the facts involved. yesterday, several democratic presidential candidates slammed the administration for this move. >> he's seek to go deport sick

kids seeking life saving treatment in the united states. like every bully, he's trying to make himself seem stronger by picking on the most vulnerable among us. >> i believe that we need to exercise common sense and compassion when it comes to migrants, not cruelty. so i want to take our country in the direction of being able to maintain border security, but to do it with compassion and common sense and to end this cruelty that the administration is so focused on in too many different way toes count. >> you know, gene, here is another example of just an extreme position, an unduly harsh position. it's not going to make america safer. it's not going to lessen the number of migrants coming across the border illegally. this does nothing except show a

harshment that the president believes his base enjoys seeing. >> right. this move has -- it has the name steven miller written all over it. the policy on immigration is being made by, you know, a bigoted anti-immigration zealot in the white house who is now the president's most influential adviser certainly on immigration. and their policies are uniformly cruel and punitive and they seem to believe that somehow these awful policies act as a deterrent. it is disgraceful. i was just trying to think of what other leader in a world full of bad leaders, but who else would do this? who would say let's deport some desperately sick children.

you could not write this in your dystopian policy. coming up, and then there were ten. we'll preview the democrats debate lineup, who is in, who is out, and what it means for the presidential contenders who didn't make the cut. "morning joe" in back in a moment. what do you look for when you trade? i want free access to research. yep, td ameritrade's got that. free access to every platform. yeah, that too. i don't want any trade minimums. yeah, i totally agree, they don't have any of those. i want to know what i'm paying upfront. yes, absolutely. do you just say yes to everything?

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ever: every student has the right to quality education. no matter what neighborhood you live in. rosanne: we are cta. ever: we are cta. marisa: we are cta. narrator: because we know quality public schools make a better california for all of us. ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." the podium order has been announced for next month's third democratic primary debate in houston, texas. the candidate candidates that qualify for the debate will appear on the stage from left to right. amy klobuchar, cory booker, pete buttigieg, bernie sanders, joe biden, elizabeth warren, kamala harris, and, joe, just one night of debates this time around. >> yes. just thankfully one night. and, actually, we may actually

have -- >> yeah, midweek viewing. >> exactly. and jon harwood will obviously have a lot of good back and forths from the people. elizabeth warren is going to get a chance to interact with the front-runner for the first time in these democratic debates. but you've just written a column talking about how it's still obviously not too late. we're still over five months away from iowa. but you say a few of joe biden's 2020 democratic kriefls still can catch him. talk about it. >> it's not too late for the half dozen people who are clearly going to be in the final contest as we get to iowa over the next several months. for most of the field that have consistently run 1%, 2%, 3% in the polls if even registering at all, we're starting to see them drop you ott.

we saw inslee, hickenlooper, people like that drop out. but when you look at biden, harris, sanders, buttigieg and bernie, you've got potential for significant movement. they're all going to have money to advertise. they're all going to have organizations that could be potent in iowa. and everybody has been waiting for this moment when they're all on the stage at the same time. a, b, c, while being spared the second night has added another hour. i think we're going to get them a kind of engagement that we haven't seen before. i don't know how sharp it's going to be, but everybody is going to have the opportunity to look side by side at these three contenders and see whether elizabeth warren can continue the momentum she's shown steadily over the last few months and whether joe biden can continue to hold his support. he's been much more resilient

than a lot of people expected despite the controversies over how he's performed at debates or "the washington post" story yesterday about the military rituals and the anecdotes that he was mistelling. i think joe biden is -- heads to labor day in a pretty strong position and he's got to hold it. >> coming up on "morning joe," president trump wants vladimir putin to visit america, but putin isn't returning the favor to u.s. senators. among them, democrat chris murphy who was denied a visa by the kremlin. he joins us to talk about that and much more, straight ahead. who's dog is this?

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tom, you need a little tom time. a little tt. stop living with at&t. xfinity delivers gig speeds to more homes than anyone. it is 8:30 in the morning here on the east coast, the capital in sunshine. welcome back to "morning joe." i'm caddie kay and back with us we have the aps jonathan lamere republican strategist susan del

percio, former under secretary of state rec stengel and former fbi special agent clint watts. joining us now from the white house is white house correspondent peter alexander. you got all the emails on joe biden and his defense this morning after his report that he's been inaccurately telling a story of war on the campaign trail. >> the former vice president this morning is dismissing that report that he told a false war story, arguing the central point of what he said stands. it's a story of bravery, courage and compassion. >> joe biden overnight defending a gripping war story he's told on the trail, speaking to "the washington post." >> what i was talking about was a young man -- i mean, what is the gaffe when i said there was a young man i tried to pin a medal on and he said i don't want it, sir. he died. he died. he died. >> it's a story ooh a service member's heroism and heartbreak.

>> this guy climbed down a ravine and carried this man up on his back. >> he was asked to pin a silver star on the navy captain. he said sir, i do not want the thing. do not pin it on me, please, sir. do not to can that. he died. he died. >> but as "the washington post" reports, every every detail of that story he told last week appears to be incorrect, that he was conflating elements from multiple events. a point he seemed to concede to the post. >> i was making the point how courageous these people are, how incredible they are. this generation of warriors, these fallen angels we've lost. and so that -- i don't know what the problem is. i mean, what is it that i said wrong? >> in 2008, then senator biden met a soldier in afghanistan who performed the ravine rescue that biden described on the campaign trail. several years later, that soldier, kyle white, was awarded

the medal of honor at the white house by president obama. and in january of 2011, the former vice president did award a bronze star to army agent chad workman in afghanistan. those discrepancy highlighting biden's history of gaffes making this comparison to president trump saying last december, i'm a gaffe machine, but my god, what a wonderful thing compared to a guy who can't tell the truth. president trump has accused biden of being off his game. >> joe biden has truly lost his fastball. >> but critics point to the president's own strange relationship with the facts. according to "the washington post," he's delivered more than 12,000 false or misleading statements since taking office. and as for that army staff target, chad workman, the soldier who received that blonde star from biden, he tells the post eight years later he still remembers that meeting and that moment saying, quote, he has that look where his eyes can see

into your eyes. he felt like he really understood. back to you guys. >> peter, it's jonathan lamere. i want to follow up on this a little bit. certainly we know of the former vice president's history of gaffes and conflating stories. he's far from the only politician or public figure to do that. but there's more to it than here. of late, he has made a number of sort of blunders and factual errors on the campaign trail, mixing it up whether it's in new hampshire or florida, talking about meeting with parkland students when he didn't. and that is reinforcing the narrative. what are the people around biden saying? do they feel like this is unfair scrutiny or do they feel like there is a reason to be concerned here? do they understand or are they worried this is going to perpetuate itself going forward? >> they're worried there's a

narrative, but they don't feel like it's founded. they say this is a guy who is 70 plus years old. he's been at this for 40 plus years. he's telling stories and particularly as it relates to this one saying these are facts. this is not make believe. he didn't just make a story up. this was not invented. these actually happens, these stories. obviously they got conflated in the way he delivers it there and obviously they push back on, you know, the likely opponent for joe biden or whoever else the president is to face going forward. president trump who as we noted in that report, "the washington post" says has made more than 12,000 misleading or false statements since becoming president. one, as you saw, just this week when he was traveling overseas. he was speaking about the north korean dictator kim jong-un. the president said that he and melania have both gotten to know him very well. obviously, melania trump in none of those visits was there with him. they never met. the white house had to clarify that. so the biden folks think this is part of the deal that comes with

being the front-runner. broadly speaking, they're not concerned about it but privately they say he has to be sharper because there are a lot of eyes focused on him right now. >> context, always important. thank you very much for for that. joining us now, a member of the foreign relations committee, chris murphy of connecticut. we can get you to weigh in on the biden story later on if you want to, but i want to start with the news that you have that you have been denied a visa by the russians, you and your republican colleague ron johnson. you've been a critic of the kremlin for a while, but were you surprised to be made persna non-grata? >> i guess i wasn't surprised. i was there in ukraine three different times with john mccain during 2013 and 2014 as they were spinning themselves out of russia's orbit and i've been critical of their manipulation of the u.s. election and their continued attempts to do so. but at the same time, i was

going to russia not just as a critic, but someone who really believes that the united states and russia need to have a functional relationship. we need to be working together on things like nuclear nonproliferation. we need to both be at the table to try to figure out a path forward for peace in a place like syria. so if someone like me isn't allowed into russia, someone who has been a critic, but is willing to reach out and find some common ground, then i don't know how we repair this relationship. so i wasn't surprised, but i was certainly disappointed. and if ron johnson and myself, two fairley mainstream foreign policy thinkers are being denied visas, i'm not sure who russia is ever going to let in. >> yes, you have been a strong opponent of russian disinformation and you've been a staunch supporter of ukraine. i think you first went there with senator mccain in 2013, 2014. i have kind of a double barrelled question for you. you have a really smart thread this morning about how we can

support ukraine and how critical that is to the future of the free world. i'd like to have you summarize that. also, i want to ask you about something that we worked on together that your legislation created, the global engagement center which was partially created to counter russian disinformation and disinformation all around the world. >> as i was sitting here waiting to go on the air, i retweeted you on this question of u.s. policy towards ukraine. and the threat i put on late last night is simple. the president's consideration of withdrawing security aid for ukraine is disastrous. right now, you have a new president of ukraine that putin is actively testing and the message that the president is sending by teasing the idea of ending our security partnership with ukraine is really harmful to a new leader there. but my worry is that we often overobsess over our military partnership with ukraine. ultimately, russia doesn't want to march on the ukrainian capital. they want to economically and politically break ukraine and we

are offering lots of military support, but not a lot of economic and political support to ukraine. so if we really want to make sure that ukraine stays independent and sovereign, then we have to be talking about other forms of assistant rather than just military aid. sometimes this place obsesses over it. one of the things we can do is continue to stand up for this center we worked on, the global engagement center which helps countries like ukraine fight russian propaganda. my hope is that we can continue to support that effort. >> senator murphy, this is clint watts in new york. this week, again, was interesting to see the president essentially advocating for russia at the g7. this isn't unusual. we have seen him simply take sides with russia against our own intelligence community and allies in different context he before. but for the benefit of doubt, is there anything they're communicating to you and other senators about the relationships

and how does that affect the alliances with our nato eu partners? what is your perspective on that having watched what went down this week? >> well, i haven't heard anything from the white house in part because i don't think there is any official american policy. this is, once again, foreign policy by stream of consciousness. foreign policy by twitter. and i have said that it's not preposterous to talk about bringing russia back into the g7. we should want russia to be at that table having conversations about the future of the world, but we should be having that conversation in coordination with the group and we should be saying to the russians, if you want back into the club, you have to be willing to take some steps on de-escalating tensions in a place like eastern ukraine or crimea. there's no reason why you shouldn't be talking about russia coming back in. but the fact that we're freelancing and talking about doing it on our own further exacerbate these tension between the united states and all of the

other great powers around the world, which makes us weaker and, frankly, incentivizing everybody else from france to russia to england to make plans without us, to just work around the united states. >> and if russia were to re-enter the g7, that means vladimir putin would be at the president's golf course in florida. so senator, let's switch to the topic of guns. it has been a few weeks since the shootings in el paso and in dayton. there has yet to be any legislative response to that. of course the senate remains out of session. but what are you hearing? are you hearing any signs of progress whatsoever in your communication with your republican colleagues on the hill but also the white house? president trump has made calls in recent weeks about background checks and other things. what can you tell us? what's the latest? >> well, this is a different moment. i mean, the anti-gun violence

movement has gotten stronger and stronger and stronger over the years. part of the reason that democrats won back control of the house of representatives is because all of a sudden guns ask an issue that swing voters vote on and it turthat turns identitg people. the president knows that. we are at the table this week with the white house and a handful of republicans and democrats in congress trying to work out a compromise on expanding background checks. this is the first time that we have ever been in active negotiations with republicans and certainly this white house since 2013 to dramatically expand the number of background checks done in this country. while i would still put the chances of getting an agreement at less than 50/50, it is significant that the white house is very interested in trying to come one a bipartisan deal. and, you know, i'm not sort of overflowing with trust of this white house because they still are talking to the nra as much as they're talking to people like me, but it is significant

that we're talking and i'm going to stay at the table with the white house for as long as it takes. >> senator, susan del percio here in new york. switching back to ukraine a moment, i can't help but think in the headlines recently, we know rudy giuliani, one of the approximately's political allies has gone over to the uk with the goal of finding dirt on the president's political opponents, most specifically former vice president biden's son. how concerned are you that the president -- knowing that the president is as transactional as he is that he could be holding up this aid specifically for that reason until he gets some information? as you said, it's a new president there. they have new leadership. maybe this is the way the president can, if not corrupt him, at least kind of get what he wants out of him. >> so giuliani's visits to ukraine should be a red alarm moment for the united states senate. i've sent a letter to the chairman of the foreign relations committee, jim rich,

asking him to conduct an investigation into rudy giuliani's trips and visits to ukraine. i know from friends in ukraine that the new president there and the new administration there are very confused. they don't know who is actually speaking for the president and certainly julie aenny and others are making it sound as if they are speaking for the united states of america when they ask for these bogus investigations of the biden family. and, yes, i am very concerned that the president is willing to hold up military aid to ukraine in order to get his political priorities undertaken by the ukrainian government. that would be patently illegal. that would be impeachable if it were true. but i think we have to put two and two together. we have to look at giuliani's visits. we have to look at this bizarre announcement about the suspension of aid to ukraine and

worry that the two may be linked. i don't have evidence that they are, but i'm worried about it. >> the senator posted his letter on ukraine last night. coming up on "morning joe" -- >> beating donald trump is not enough. we have to have bigger aspirations than that. beating donald trump is the floor. it's not the ceiling. bieth donald trump may get us out of the valley, but it doesn't get us to the mountaintop. what is going to decide this election is not what he does, or what people twho disagree with us do, it's how we are not going to be reactivists waiting for something to happen and suddenly realizing that there's a cause. we have to be activists. >> cory booker in california and as we gear up for the upcoming elections, a new book argues that the country must consider future generations when making today's decision. "morning joe" will be right back.

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thinking ahead in a reckless age. bina, i love the idea of a bit of optimism at the moment. i've been thinking recently perhaps the human species is too dumb to survive because we can't make long-term decisions. you're taking a different take and suggesting we'll be okay. >> that is a very fair question, katty. i would say it is a dangerous misconception that we are too flawed by nature, that humans are incapable of thinking ahead. what my research has shown is that there are a variety of factors, environmental, cultural, social, and also decisions we can make that allow us to think ahead better. when we sort of despair about the fact we're short-sighted we are neglecting both our obligations to the future and ignoring our vast potential to think ahead. >> you're a teacher. you deal with millennials and young students all the time. how can we instill that idea to

them? they are all about immediate gratification. they get everything on a phone or what have you. what do we do to get them excited about participating and looking that far ahead? >> well, i think you're right to point out we're in a culture of instant gratification and certainly texting and our phones and everything else seems to reinforce that culture and certainly among young people. but i'm hearing a lot from young people about their aspirations and their care about the future. there is a lot of interest in climate change and they're concerned about their own futures. they'll be living way longer than us and than their grandparents lived so they have the need to think and imagine futures way beyond their immediate experience now. and we're also in a period of unprecedented change whether you look at our politics or the conditions of the planet. and so i think part of this is trying to wed people's aspirations to look at the future with the sort of immediate reality and distractions in the long term. a lot of the strategies that i point out in the book in the

optimist's telescope are about how you help people look beyond those distractions and measure themselves by more meaningful metrics than they've achieved in the moment. >> you called them heirlooms. >> yeah. i think a lot about that. i got my own family heirloom from my grandfather, an instrument to inspire me to think about my family and what i'm going to be passing on to the future. >> so the situation as i see it, the problem is technology is evolving a lot faster than we as human beings are. i don't know if you can do anything about that. we were just chatting before hand about how do you get young people interested in public service? sort of a double barreled question. how do you do that and also get people who understand technology to go into public service? engineers, data miners, all of that kind of thing which i think government desperately needs? >> so i think -- i'm teaching at m.i.t. and this young generation of students actually, i think,

cares a lot about public issues. in a way i think we're handing them a society in which there are all kinds of public challenges, from public health, from our food supply, to global climate change, to national security issues, global contact issues. they do care but need to understand how it can be applied. when it comes to technology part of the understanding we need to impart is that this is not just about using technology as a quick fix to some of these problems. it's about how you integrate an understanding of the ethical and societal implications of those technologies and your value system with those technologies. that is where it really comes back to, being able to imagine the future and think about future consequences because when we think about using a technology like gene editing, artificial intelligence to solve a public problem we need to think about second order effects and unintended consequences and the vast potential of that. a very concrete example is if you think about gene editing to solve a specific disease, well,

that actually might change the human genetic pool if you do that in the embryos. these are the kinds of considerations i am trying to instill in my students but also about having that capacity to think beyond just the technical aspects of these problems, to think about how we can actually create a society in a culture in which we do see ourselves as ancestors and think ahead about those implications. >> hey, bina, jonathan lemire. i think the takeaway from this interview and perhaps the entire show is katty kay declaring the human race too dumb to survive. but let me go to you here on this. we hear so many negative headlines day after day about a variety of topics whether awe tore tearian leaders or the threat of terrorism but in particular climate change where it seems like every day there is a piece of disturbing news. why should we be optimistic about the human race's ability to combat climate change? >> the reason is because we have a choice. it is not because i believe

we're already solving the problem or things are getting better at the moment. they're not getting better. they're getting worse. we just saw the trump administration propose to roll back methane standards the industry already agreed to. in fact, what i see as the potential and what i see as the cause for optimism by which i mean an engaged optimism in which we act on behalf of the future and invest in it, this is not a curse of human nature. when you look at the research in this area there are so many ways to influence our capital markets, politics, and decision making in our individual lives and families. we can do this. i am skeptical about what we can accomplish in this moment of political and planetary despair but we have choices and that is why i wrote the book to expose what the choices are and galvanize a generation to be engaged optimists like i am. >> bina, one last thing that is sort of the takeaway for us, the older generation, young people

seem to be under incredible stress and worry about things i never worried about. i didn't have that many worries. is there any one or two things we can be doing for the younger generation to keep them motivated and optimistic on a daily basis or things we can think about? >> sure. one of the things you saw with the parkland shootings, the young people that just got so galvanized around gun control and holding their parents accountable is that the young carry a lot of moral authority when it comes to representing the future. and i think part of what we can be doing is to listen to them and give them formal avenues both in governments, councils of young people advising on public issues but also around the dinner table. be listening to what is concerning young people in your life and, also, be offering them tools and examples historically. i talk about the new deal in particular because of the current moment of despair thinking about the dust bowl and the sort of -- the time of the great depression. and how leaders actually had the imagination to think of a future that could be very different from that and to put in the

investment to make the future happen. if you look at the history of the civil rights movement, similarly, time of despair. you had to be able to imagine a different future. i think helping young people to see that there have been moments in history where we have had to imagine something very different than the status quo and very different than what we expect to be happening. >> okay. lemire when we start doing the things we have to do that we know we have to do on climate change i'll have been proved mercifully wrong. thank you very much. that does it for us this morning. chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. chris? thank you, katty. i am chris jansing in for stephanie ruhle. it is friday, august 30th. any minute now we ekts petke to hear from the governor of florida, ron de-santos as his state prepares for hurricane dorian. couple of pieces of worrisome news about this storm which is now a category 2 hurricane. it is expected to strengthen to a category 4 as it barrels toward florida's east coast and to slow