you see that reflected in the market, now up 238 points. that will wrap up this hour for me. i'm chris jansing. ali velshi will be back in the chair tomorrow at 3:00 eastern. and you can always find me on twitter @chris jansing. thank you very much for watching. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in new york. donald trump's visit to the south of france for this year's g7 summit ended earlier today with america's closest allies essentially resorting to a strategy of speaking in soothing tones and sharing warm and fuzzies with the american president to avoid stoking his ire. "the new york times" describes the world's approach to donald trump this way, quote, ever so gingerly as if determined not to rouse the american's well-known temper. the other group of seven leaders thought to nudge them toward their views on the pressing issues of the day, or at least register their differences while making sure to wrap him in a

french crepe of flattery, which he prefers. prp tends to hear what he wants to hear in settings like this and that tale of two summits was on full display as detailed on the atlantic reporting this weekend, quote, there are in effect two different summits under way, one that's happening in president donald trump's mind. and another that is actually happening, like on the ground. there's the summit trump is trying to will into existence and the summit unfolding in realtime. so we will start with the summit in donald trump's mind, where he's a great negotiator and the trade war with china is going really, really well. >> this comes is the back and forth and changing of statements from yourself so that -- >> i'm sorry, it's the way i negotiate. >> so my question, is that a strategy, is it a strategy to call president xi an enemy and say relations are great one day. >> it's the way i negotiate. it's done very well for me over the years and doing even better for the country. >> that's debatable that it's

going well for the country. but undeniable some of america's adversaries are coming out way ahead, with the president going out of his way to excuse the actions of russia and north korea into attack, former president obama, former vice president biden and former senator and secretary of state john kerry. all of that before he was wheels-up for d.c. earlier today and that is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. chief among them, nbc and msnbc national affairs analyst john heilemann, thank you for helming the floor all week last week. >> i didn't burn it down. it's still here. the table is still intact. somehow we got through. >> i saw nothing but all of the love for you. thank you. >> glad you had a nice vacation. we missed you though. >> sounds like i missed a lot. i'm glad nothing else burned down. journalist and resident at georgetown university foreign service, elise, and former deputy national security adviser for president obama bed rhodes

and david jolly. ben, i have to start with you. there's so much madness and lunacy, you have to read some of these stories three, four, five times, read trump's transcripts three, four, five times to see where he lands within a single soundbite. but i want to start with the attacks on former president obama, your old boss. >> why keep repeating what somebody would see as a clear lie? >> it was annexed -- i know you liked president obama, but it was annexed through president obama's term. if it was annexed during my term, i would say sorry, folks, i made a mistake or sorry, folks. and president obama was pure and simply outsmarted. they took crimea during his time. that was not a good thing. it could have been stopped. it could have been stopped with the right whatever. it could have been stopped. >> ben, i will let you fact check all of that for us. there's not a fact to check. but let me put into context what happened once again this morning

before donald trump left the g7. donald trump telling a story for reasons as yet unexplained about russia's not being a part of these gatherings. donald trump still determined to add russia. donald trump still thinking about inviting them to the next g7, i guess that would make it a g8, in the united states last year. but start with just taking on this unbelievable, van tfan tas lie about not only the g7 with russia but where others stand with russia. >> yes, it's the real donald trump corrupt view of foreign policy. the fact is vladimir putin invaded crimea not taking it from the united states but taking it from the people of ukraine, violating international law, violating every principle the g7 was supposed to stand for. the decision to kick russia out of the g8 that i was a part of

wasn't just a decision of president obama's but by far the unanimous choice of every other member of the g7. the reason is simple, one to take a principled stand against what russia did and we also moved to impose sanctions on russia. they're having a profound impact on the russian economy. secondly, most importantly, the g7 is a place, nicolle, where you come together with your allies to make common strategies. it's supposed to be a forum for likeminded nations to get together and figure out how to deal with the threat of climate change, how to deal with the challenge from iran, how to deal with china cracking down on pro democracy protesters in hong kong. russia has no place at that table. russia would be at the table as a spoiler. it says everything about donald trump that he seems to prefer the company of dictators like vladimir putin to the leaders of democracies like angela and emanuel macron, he's creating the crises being discussed at

the g7, whether it's iran resuming it's nuclear program or excelli threats from climate change. so they're moving on from american leadership. they're just trying to prevent donald trump from blowing up that summit so they can actually solve problems. you bring vladimir putin into that equation, and things just get worse. >> i want to get you on the extraordinary nature of what is seeping through in the coverage, which is you and i both know from having worked in white houses, this is usually the tip of the iceberg in terms of describing diplomatic rancor. there's usually a lot more behind the scenes than makes it into the printed coverage from these events but even in "the new york times" coverage, "the washington post" coverage, "the wall street journal" coverage, the atlantic coverage, it's abundantly clear is that they're treating donald trump the diplomat the way you treat food in the campground out west, it goes in a bear box and no one

gets it. they're putting him out of reach so he can't mess anything up. just take that on. what do you think when you read that? >> i think it's pretty clear, nicolle, and i know some of these leaders quite well. the fact of the matter is you will recall the first g7 and second g7 even of the trump presidency, they were trying to move him to a place they could reach common ground. they were trying to find a compromised position so they could issue dmcommuniques, forg ahead. but this marks a change on u.s. leadership of the the president of the united states is no longer viewed as the leader of the free world. they're trying to come up with their own agreements and just prevent donald trump from coming in and flipping over the table and blowing up the summit. so what we are seeing is what the world looks like in a post-america leadership situation. the climate change session, probably the most closely watched session in most parts of the world, particularly with the amazon on fire, donald trump

wasn't even there. i mean, if you want a metaphor for u.s. leadership in 2019, it is the empty chair at the table as world leaders deal with the biggest challenge to the future of the planet at the time the amazon rain forest is on fire. so when i look at how these leaders are approaching it, it's not they're even trying to create favor with him as macron once did in trying to build a friendship, they're just trying to prevent him from messing up their capacity to do business together. i think it shows you we're really in a brave new world. >> i'm listening to ben and i'm thinking and remembering how bush was covered and treated when the war on terror policies were under the most sort of -- people think that domestically they were unpopular, around the world they were wildly polarizing. and these were world leaders george w. bush was able to work even in the she post sort of overheated crisis. when the policies resulted in the publics and some european

countries being out protesting all day, george bush could still sit down behind closed doors and deal with poverty programs for africa. he could still sit down and talk about collaborating on the war on terror and intelligence sharing. it is truly extraordinary, and i wonder, one, do you see this the way ben rhodes sees this with america being out of the equation, and who, what do you see as our way back? >> there's no other way to see it then you had president macron taking up the mantel here and it was more less of a g7 but a g6 plus one in terms of president macron taking the lead in those that share likeminded view on climate change and trade war on china, which the fed said earlier this week was hurting the world economy. and i think that's why president trump tried to seem very conciliatory at the end of these press conferences because he doesn't want to get blamed. but it is true american leadership is really absent,

especially when you see what's going on in the amazon burning. and i think tleerdss are saying, you know, they don't know where to go right now. do we need to sit out the next two years or do we need to kind of make a plan for the road ahead without the u.s. as leader of the free world? >> amazing. >> i think it's a scary prospect because we've seen over time when american doesn't lead, the world kind of loses its bearings. so i think you have president macron, angela merkel, others trying to say, you know, maybe we need to have a strategy for moving ahead. i think the only way out of it is to just -- i think what they saw was they're learning how to deal with him, as you said exactly, speaking in those hushed tones. they're learning how to deal with him in terms of let's try to bring him along as much as we can towards our point of view, as long as he doesn't torpedo it, that is a win. i think at this point for

president macron, coming out without a communique, some people would say it's historic for him i think as long as president trump didn't blow it up like he did last year, i think that's a win for him now. >> david jolly, so much criticism justifiably on the media for lowering the bar, i wonder if you see this as the diplomatic version of that, lowering the bar. well, there was no communique but at least he didn't burn anything down as heilemann said. and next i want to ask you about something that's come up from a number of people, the true global threat of an economic slowdown but second, a dire political crisis here at home for donald trump if he's blamed for it. >> to your point, nicolle, i'm not sure it's a lowering of the bar by the press or those covering it, i think it's an acceptance by the international community and press donald trump lowered the bar when it comes to u.s. leadership on the world stage. to elise's point, they felt much more like a g6 than g7. this is a president with each

passing summit that we realize is simply not taking seriously on the world stage. he's not respected. he's not even feared, which was once kind of calling card of donald trump if you will in the unpredictability, at least he was feared. this is a president that merely pl placated. he's the relative at the family gatherings you nod your head and say okay too. he's the families in the south that they say oh, sure, bless your heart kind of thing. he's a president not respected by his peers. among allies, why this is maybe noneventful, it's okay among allies in freedom but it's among communities of nation states that weren't there when it really is distressing, when we talk about his bilateral relations with russia, his comments almost forgiving, if you will, russia's invasion of the ukraine. something condemned by the eu, nato, by the u.n., the united states, g7, canada, every other leading nation. and then where we face a

situation where macron might be brokering a deal between the united states and iran, when we have a president on the world stage not respected, that's where this becomes something dangerous and something to watch going into next year. >> i watched all of this with the frame you put around it on friday when you opened this show talking about trump, and i will botch it, but the departure lounge and all of his sort of unwillingness and unenthusiasm about being on this trip. can you draw a direct line though to the chaos he sowed last week and exactly what david and elise and everyone is describing, that he is -- again, you can ascribe motive to it and judge it, but the bar's been so lowered basically if he doesn't stromp off and have a toddler-like tantrum, it's the president. >> i think it's worse -- with respect to our esteemed panel today, but worse than anybody's saying.

and i don't think anybody will disagree with me when i say this. i think the thing on friday was like describing a drunk uncle. >> david jolly was inching towards that. >> who's getting drunk in the departure lounge, he rolls in, you're at thanksgiving and you're like keep uncle fred in the corner and don't let him wreck the dinner. but it's not just trump is the drunk uncle or created an absence of leadership. i think what these leaders actually see is he's a ticking time bomb. it's not just that he left an empty chair, though he has. he is someone i think seen by them all now as genuinely dangerous in that he's opposed in a fundamental way -- he's kind of anarchist impulses are threatening to tear down the basic structures that were built in the post world war ii era. where multilateralism, collaboration, all of that stuff got built, so someone like

george w. bush, who you are right, was despised on the international stage by a lot of people. way too conservative, way too right wing. he was a cowboy. he was an idiot. all of that stuff was true but yet it was filled in the construct of he basically respects what those institutions are there to do, which is order the world. and every time donald trump talks about wanting to bring russia back into the g7, he's rolling a stick of dynamite into the international system. i think they're all looking at him like not just like someone who should ignore or if we get out of the dinner without him making a scene, it's okay. they're looking at him like an arsonist who's walking in the door threatening to burn the whole place down. yeah, we lowered the bar but he's right, if you imagine to keep the artenist from burning the house down, that is a victory. because this is how he treats them and talks and kind of things he would like to see going forward. >> ben, i think there's so much

reporting that supports and substantiates exactly what heilemann is saying. whether it's mbs ordering the slaughter of khashoggi and then dr donald trump standing there and saying, wow, i take his version, not the cia. whether it's donald trump repeatedly over and over and over again not just taking vladimir putin's word for it but echoing the most putinesque kind of propaganda here in this country, where people don't even always know where these lines come from, whether it's the russian invasion of afghanistan or election meddling or whatnot. what does the world do with someone so intent on undermining american institutions, american intelligence, american defense structures, american alliances? >> yes. and american-created institutions, not just barack obama's policy but seven years of them. first to just build on what john said, there are real consequences here. sometimes we cover this like a

reality show and you talk the bar's been lowered, foreign policy takes a while for your actions to show consequences. we're in year three of the trump presidency. the global economy could be on the doorstep of a recession because of donald trump's trade policy. we're back on the precipice potentially with a military conflict with iran because donald trump pulled out of the iran deal and precipitated a crisis. because donald trump pulled out of the paris accord and kbav a green light to leaders like brazil's president to start logging the amazon. we have to roll back the democrat we indians going into cash memory, chinese threatening hong kong, all of these things we are seeing now the consequences and disorder and potential conflict and potential economic instability that flows from donald trump's approach to the presidency and to foreign policy. so for these other leaders honestly, i think nicolle, the goal is how do we mitigate the damage? they're self-aware enough to know they can't song these

problems alone without the united states so their trying to get through the next year mitigating the damage and seeing what happens the next election. >> i want to put you in the spot because there's a lot of naval gazing and a story how they will start covering journalists because everything must be attacked before the truth is revealed. i wonder if you think -- and this is a question i have for myself and for what we do every day, are we too timid? are world leaders, are they going the wrong way to coo, koochie koochie coo, and everything at stake that john and ben described? >> i think it's kind of cloud pleasing to do that. i think you have to do what's going to work. if these leaders are finding criticizing him in public is not going to be working, then they need to find another way. so maybe it's what macron was doing at the press conference, kind of giving kudos to trump's

instincts on china, which are not completely ridiculous, and saying but we really think it should be this way and try to kind of maneuver it. to john -- >> and you look good in that seat and i think we're going to go and do this. >> you look good in the suit. i think we have the perfect tie for you. to go with john's drunk uncle, these leaders are in the front seat with him and want to make sure he's not going off the cliff. i don't think it's about ignoring him but about mitigating the damage. >> don't let him grab the wheel. >> don't let him grab the wheel and, listen, we talk about why trump doesn't understand why he's not winning the trade war with china. these countries know china will be able to wait him out. he says this is how i negotiate. well, he's not looking at how the chinese negotiate. this game of chicken could end very badly, not only for the u.s. but for the rest of the

world because china is not balking. i think what we are trying to do and what the world is trying to do is trying to move against his worst impulses and trying to say this is not a bad idea, this has wisdom, whether it's china and getting tough on them on trade or whether it's the arctic and trying to get more influence or maybe not buying it or getting into a war with denmark is a good idea, or maybe saying to the ally, we have common interests, let's help develop it. and kind of trying to -- not koochie coo but trying to subliminally bring someone along to your way. with president trump they found its flattery and it's not criticizing him in public. i think the problem is the last person in his ear is the one that gets the influence so everyone wants to be the last person in his ear. i don't think that just bindly

criticizing is going to work here. >> david jolly, before we go, i have to get to you on a little bit of marketing. donald trump slid back into svp of pr for the trump properties today and said -- he's talking about having the g7 at his golf club. he said with doral we have a series of magnificent buildings. we call them bungalows. they each hold 50 to 70 very luxurious rooms with mag any of septs views. we have incredible conference rooms and incredible restaurant. it's such a natural, everything but the thread count, huh? >> you know, the perfect person to look into the ee moll umentes ramifications is elijah cummings, chair of the house oversight committee, who will return to session in september and they should look into it. very quickly, nicolle, on what we're talking about. we will be fine among our allies. they know how to deal with donald trump. the concern is among those with adverse security to us, russia,

iran and others. what do they do in what may be the final 14 months of an administration to manipulate or extract concessions not because they may want to take aggression on the world stage but when i saw the president being wooed by macron on iran, what about a donald trump these reaching for legacy and takes a bad deal because he needs some deal rather than no deal before he leaves his first term? >> and we won't really know what's in the last deal. so there's that. >> it will look a lot like the old deal. >> exactly. thank you very much for spending time with us. former congressman joe walsh said he's sorry for what he said and why he thinks he can now beat trump. and we show the new democratic primary locked in a three-way tie. we will show you what it means to the three front-runners. does crowd size matter? if you're elizabeth warren,

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i think it's a weakness not to apologize. i've helped -- i've helped create trump, there's no doubt about that. the personal ugly politics, i regret that and i'm sorry for that. and now we've got a guy in the white house, george, that's all he does. >> that was former gop congressman joe walsh, who is testing the power of an apology there. he's counting on forgiveness from some people who view beating trump as more important than just about anything else. walsh announced over the weekend that he's running for president on a single core message, that

donald trump is unfit for the office he holds. it's an argument made by just one other ee lenlected official can count. when he was in the senate, bob corker of tennessee said trump did not display the confidence the west wing required. corker retired in 2018. trump's erratic behavior is now well documented. but not one of the nearly two dozen democrats running for president has made trump's fitness a central message in the campaign. enter joe walsh. >> we have someone in the white house who we all know is unfit, someone who lies virtually every time he opens his mouth, someone who places his own interests above the nation's interests at every single turn. we cannot afford four more years of donald trump, no way. >> joining us now former republican congressman joe walsh. thank you for being here. >> good to be here, nicolle. >> i started with the apology

because i think for a lot of people, i think that's your only way in. >> yes. >> i think it's atoning for some of the things are going to be inconsistent with it. so talk to me about the spirit in which disparaging comments were made about president obama, muslim men. >> absolutely. we were divided before trump and you can argue it got divided. i got ahead of myself and personal a lot. i wanted to fight about policy and ideas and i got personal and hateful about barack obama because i got so into the fight. it occurred to me after trump got elected that the demonizing i did of people led to him, because that's all he does. it's probably been the most difficult thing i've ever said, to apologize for voting for him and to apologize for creating him. nicolle, i don't want to give myself too much credit but i think i created him because i

engaged too much in his personal demonization. man, that guy lives on that bs. >> i guess i want to nail down when he lost you. for me when he came down the stairs and called all mexicans rapists and murders and talked about megyn kelly -- i was never available to him as a reporter who worked for the bush family. why were you even available to him to begin with? >> that's a good question. i supported rand paul in the primary. once won the general i supported him because i didn't like hillary. i didn't like trump but he wasn't hillary. when he got elected i tried to do the good trump/bad trump thing. give him a pat on the back when he did something good, attack him when he did something bad. i'm on conservative talk show radio, all they want to hear is the seanty b hannity bad. the guy walks on water. to be honest, i didn't pay that

much attention to him. i thought he would make a few jokes and that was it. but every time he opened his mouth and he lied and he lost me for sure at helsinki when he stood in front of the world and said i'm with putin, he's my friend, i don't like my intelligence community. that was it and i have never, ever gone back. >> what do you think the best and most effective way, because the idea of his fitness -- >> he's nuts. nuts. >> the truth is that whether people say it disparagingly or affectionately, anyone who comes in contact with him comes away saying he's crazy but this is a hard story to cover and hard attack to make. what are sort of your proof points? >> he's a psychopath, he lies every time he opens his mouth, he's the big of the narcissist we ever had in that office and that's saying a lot, john. at every turn, nicolle, he's put his own interest ahead of the country's interest. like a 5-year-old child he did not want what russia did to come

out so nothing took away from his election. he's done that at every turn. we were attacked. maybe i'm naive, i only served two years in congress, but i can't believe a bigger republican hasn't stepped up this year to say it. i think, john, you said it last segment, this guy is a clear and present danger. nicolle, maybe i'm a flawed candidate, i probably am, but my god, no one else has stood up. this is madness that anybody is even thinking of keeping that child in the white house. >> what do you think it says though that 85% of republicans still approve of the job he's doing? >> i think his approval is soft. i think there needs to be an alternative. a lot of the polling also shows 50-some percent of republicans would like to see a challenger. there are a lot of republicans who left the party, you know that. we need to bring them back. the slogan of our campaign is be brave. man you got to be nuts or be brave to do what i'm doing. nicolle, it's a serious slogan in that i believe most every

republican privately believes what i'm saying publicly. they're afraid to say it. i know my former colleagues feel that way. we want them to be brave. >> bob corker said it, and he said it over and over again and developed close relationships with then secretary of state rex tillerson. he actually held hearings to try to limit donald trump's nuclear authority, first time in american history i think arepub tried to strip nuclear authority from a key executive. why do you think more republicans aren't willing to do what bob corker did, atrade to do something and say something? somewhere they're afraid. >> of a tweet? >> mean tweet, primary challenger and i'm not getting re-elected and that's palpable in the members i have spoken to, nicolle. they also made a bet, and this is disappointing, they think trump will lose in 2020, all of these republicans. they want him to lose. they say we will hang on for two years and he's gone and everything will be back in normal. >> they have gorsuch and

kavanaugh. >> be it will not be done. many hate the republican brand because of trump. >> so many dissociative situation when i worked for the bush campaign were comments around race, your manner suggests you're sensitive to race. how do you help heal in a lot of people's views the most dangerous part of trumpism? >> i'm obsessed with race. i'm pretty outspoken. i push the envelope. i have a podcast with a black radio host in chicago and we talk about racism. i think america is afraid to talk about the issue. sometimes i push the envelope too far, and i have, but i am so excited to lead a dialogue on that, on the issue of race. i work with a black pastor on chicago's south side, there's an

opportunity here for republicans to get black votes u. b, but noh this guy in the white house. >> why do you think you can get farther than the 16 republicans did that ran against him? >> because i'm going to hit donald trump, i'm going to punch him in the face every single day. >> on tv? >> on tv, radio, i'm going everywhere. >> if it doesn't work out, will you vote for the democrat? >> i will never vote for donald trump again. >> will you vote for the democrat? >> i don't know, that's the best honest answer i can give you. i don't think so. >> if you think he's mentally unfit. i said months ago i would vote for any of these candidates, i would vote for their automobile. i think the most intellectually honest thing to do, and i believe you believe what you're saying, is to say the best person to beat him will be the nominee of the other major party in this country. so i'm going to try to take down his numbers. this is a political strategist thinking, i'm going to try to pull down his numbers, raise attention around his fitness,

find a few cats and dogs, maybe stick corker in a bus and drive around iowa, only a handful of people made this argument but if it doesn't work out i will throw my weight and vote and support and listeners behind the democratic nominee. >> trump can't win. >> is that a yes? >> nicolle, it's grab my hand, i could be brought there. i'm a tea party conservative. the democrats' ideas, many scare me. >> if you believe it's an emergency, pay more in taxes to get rid of the crazy. that seems like the most intellectual honest place to go if you believe what you say. >> i'm almost there. i am. because that's the fight. and that's a better fight. i would rather sit down at the table with elizabeth warren and talk about free college tuition. this guy is destroying the country. i agree with you. i can be brought there. >> congressman, i want to come back to the topic nicolle raised a second ago and focus on a little more. you know, you've apologized for helping to spawn trump, you apologized for going too far. look, what nicolle said i think

is true for a lot of people, the president is stone-cold racist and so are you. i can sit here and read off tweets, barack obama is a muslim, barack obama's born in kenya. i have tweets using the n-word not that long ago and for a lot of people the notion that anybody who is exhibited -- you can apologize for various things, apologizing for burping at the table or using the wrong fork with your main course is different from offering some kind of genuine recognition that not just i said things that are offensive but i'm a racist. i have said racist stuff. there's no way someone who has -- to many african-americans looks like as much of a racist as donald trump has the moral standing to challenge donald trump. >> yeah, and i wouldn't call myself a racist but i would say, john, i've said racist things on twitter. there's no doubt about it. and an apology is not enough. when i said barack obama was a muslim, that was a horrible thing to say. and i said it because i was so disgusted with obama's policy towards israel, that i went a

bad, ugly step. the sandy hook moms, i took a cheap shot against them three years ago because they were suing gun manufacturers, an issue i disagree with. so i took a bad, cheap shot against them. i've done that. but, john, again context, i probably sent out 40,000 tweets in the last six years, no excuse, you and i could sit down and find 200 to 300 you would say walsh, what were you thinking? all i can do is own them and explain them and apologize as sincerely as i can for those that deserve an apology. >> i will just add you have a lot of work to do to try to make a distinction people i'm not a racist but i said a lot of racist stuff in public. >> that's not fair because we have a short show. you said i said the n-word in a tweet andy to make a point. they wanted to change the name of the washington redskins so they said redskins was the new n-word. that's bs. the redskins doesn't equate with

the n-word. that has an ugly history. to make the point i wrote down the n-word in a tweet. to make the point it's not nearly what the word redskins is. >> you get the combination of calling the president muslim and born in kenya, et cetera, et cetera, this paints a picture that makes people doubt your moral standing to take on someone's who's primary is racism. >> john, maybe you and i disagree with this and i never got into the birther stuff. i said obama is muslim and i will get down on my knees. i don't think trump is a racist. all trump cares about it himself. he there throw out racist and bigoted stuff. that's all he cares about. i don't know if he's a racist. >> what else do you need to know? >> he's a racist, bigot, xenophobe, he's everything, nicolle, because he will use everything to just simply advance his interests. >> i want to get my friend david jolly in here. he made the decision to leave the republican party. and i just want him to get a

chance to jump in. >> hey, david. >> i guess congressman here would be my question for you, and i will just admit it and i think a lot of viewers will agree with me when i say this, thank you, john heilemann. i come down and heilemann's approach to this, i find a hard time accepting you might provide redemption for nevertheless trump republicans but the republican party at this moment. this is a critical moment we need somebody to draw stark contrast to donald trump. to your candidacy and how we evaluate candidates, nicolle asked why didn't you know when he came down the elevator and called mexicans rapists and criminals? i think one of the hard conversations within the republican party is those of us who have decided to leave, those of us who created much more distance between this president and this party than you have, we kind of feel like we made the right decision at the right time. when donald trump is gone and every republican that remains silent, and i'm talking about paul ryan, mitch mcconnell, jeb bush, all of those on stage, who

remain silent, that is a moment where we get to judge their discernment and their discretion and their own judgment because if you're asking to be in the oval office where your judgment has to be in a moment's notice, something the american people can trust, how do we trust your judgment if you weren't saying these things two years ago and just saying them now when you decided to run for president? >> hold on a minute, david. then what do we do with the people who left trump two months after he got elected? or the people who left trump six months after he got elected? or the people like me who left trump after helsinki, do we just say they're not on our side. we don't want their help and their support because they weren't there at the escalator, is that what you're saying? that doesn't seem fair. >> no. >> let me say this and it's all yours. >> sure. >> it would seem to me we would welcome converts at every stage along the way if we think they're againgenuine.

david, if you don't think i'm genuine, it doesn't matter where i came across. john heilemann, if you think i'm racist, it doesn't matter if i challenge trump. i either convince you that i'm not or convince you i'm genuine or not but that's your call. >> go ahead, david. >> congressman to your point, it's not my place to say whether you're being sincere or not. i would say you have a compelling there to somebody who said i have seen the light. the question is, is it compelling enough of a narrative to run for president of the united states, or is it compelling enough of a narrative to simply say within the republican party, we have to have a family meeting and change our brand. the party suffers from a brand crisis right now, and whoever emerges in the future can't have the baggage you seem to have in this moment. i think you're going to hear from a lot of voters. >> how about somebody in this moment who had, as you have rightfully identified as some baggage, and is trying to redeem himself or moved beyond that baggage? trump's voters were my voters. trump's voters are my listeners. i moved away from them.

i don't know. it's an interesting -- >> listen -- go ahead, david. >> congressman, quickly, one thing i will say is going to be very intriguing about your candidacy that we not see from bill weld, you are coming from the right. i imagine when it comes to the agreement and wall and obama care, all of these other issues, you're coming at trump from the right where weld is coming from the beginning. >> yes. nicolle? >> i think what's important to get on the record at the earliest point that you can is what are your proof points to your commitment to the cause? i think what david is speaking to is for a lot of people who took trump on when there were 17 republicans running and he was one of 17. it became more daunting as he emerged. the kinds of attacks of people who were once in the republican party get from the right from people in positions like yours are vicious. you're about to get them. so let me put on my strategist hat, i think if you really believe in this cause, and i will come back to this, the

intellectually honest place to land after prayer or thought or talk with your family is say i'm so committed, i will support elizabeth warren or bernie sanders. i worked for george w. bush and john mccain. that isn't about their policies. that's about my belief about donald trump. i guess i would ask if you're ready to say today right now that you would support elizabeth warren or bernie sanders to keep donald trump from being re-elected? >> i'm almost there. i can't support trump. i know you want a better answer than that. for two years i have been in conservative talk radio, 95% of the people who listen to me love donald trump and i criticize donald trump every day. i'm not coming to this game today. maybe running for president is a fairly audacious thing to do to apologize and try to redeem myself but david, john, nicolle, how come nobody else has stepped up to make the moral case? >> they're going to get yelled at by the three of us. i hope we can keep having this conversation. there's a lot to talk about. i'm telling you, if you sort of marshal all of the evidence,

david brooks wrote in 2017 about a group of republican senators with medieval trump because he displayed early signs of alzheimer's. if you look at the reporting of this trip, reporting on the speech, the rally where he forgot what he said. i'm not a doctor but if you want to make that case and do the work of putting together all of the evidence, it's a compelling case to republicans i'm old enough to remember who used to care about the person who served as commander in chief. >> and rule of you law. nicolle, thank you. when we come back, can joe walsh break through about trump's fitness? a new national poll shows two progressives in a tie with biden. th biden. like the old "tunic tug". you know it, right? but i don't have to, with always discreet. i couldn't believe the difference. it's less bulky. and it really protects. watch this. the super absorbent core turns liquid and odor to gel, and locks it away.

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joining our conversation in progress, a.b. stoddard, associate editor for real clear politics at the table, and op-ed contributor recall reyes. i have to get you first on joe

walsh. >> no, no, no, 10,000 times no. >> no as what, no as a trump attack dog? >> no to everything joe walsh. >> you don't want him in the conversation? >> no. look what's he's talking about is being in the political fight before he got personal, that he got into the fight, that maybe he stepped out too far, that does not excuse, as join pointed out, that is no excuse for islamophobia, birtherism -- these racist comments. you can't just say that's the political game, that's what we all do. i'm not buying that. second of all, who is his constituency? if you are disturbed by trump's racism and bigotry, impulsive, reckless behavior, he's not going to be your guy because he endorsed it before trump was president. if you're cool with trump's racism, bigotry and impulsive behavior, you're just going to vote for trump. i don't see anyone in the republican party being a natural constituency for this gentleman. >> a.b., it does beg the question, why isn't anybody else

making the arguments he's making with in and out it would appear to be vast reporting now around trump's impulsitivity and erratic public performances? >> i just feel completely differently about the table than joe walsh. i don't think he's pretending he's going to win the party's nomination. the wholly own capacity of republican association. he has 80% approval rating in the party, trump does. this is an exercise in wearing down republicans who continue to abide trump, who have abandoned all of their principles, which is why it is effective joe walsh comes from the right, instead of joe weld, the left of the party. if he continues when he gets off this welcome tour and stops apologizing for his tweets to talk about the deficit, the debt, what the party used to do in terms of sticking up and fighting for limited government, free trade and on and on. in addition to trump's fitness,

i think he can actually depress republican votes and that ultimately serves the cause of helping to defeat donald trump, whether he sits out the democratic nomination or doesn't vote for the democrat in the end at all. and i do think that he is trying to put country over party. he's over party. he's admitting he's a reformed tribalist. i think he should be given credit for that. he's running because he thinking trump is unfin and a threat to democracy. i make the argument about conservative policies, because i think it would help depress some republican vote, but i think he's running on something that's not a policy agenda, and i think that he's admitting that, you know, in the past he was a fierce, bare-knuckle partisan, and he's given that up. i don't know how thhe doesn't hp the cause of defeating donald trump. but to underscore your

point, a.b., donald trump won by a very slim margin of white republican men and women in a very small number of states. you don't need to lose a lot of them, but you do need to lose some republican supporters. there are all sorts of movements whether it's former gang members come in and help kids off the street. a former trump-like political meathead, if you will, with all due respect, maybe you need to speak their language to make the blunt, non-elite arguments about trump. >> i think he admits he has a radio show full of people who voted for trump and wrestling with whether or not they still support him. i think he comes from a place where he really understands the trump voter. he's asking them to not risk another four years for reason that surpass party, that are about him being a threat to the

country and wanting to -- again, i don't joe why we're trying to make him into the perfect candidate. he's admitting he's not, and look, no one else will do it. after our break, the rock star versus the rock. we'll explain, next. ersus the rk we'll explain, next. eal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you.

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like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. eliquis, the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor if eliquis is what's next for you. brand-new pollings shows a potential shift 2349 democratic race for president. it's the first policy with a three-way tie among bernie sanders, elizabeth warren and joe biden. it's monmouth universe showing biden down, it's another sign of a surge in warren enthusiasm. her town hall in seattle yesterday attracted 15,000 people, her largest crowd yet. what do you think? >> i think this is another warning sign for joe biden, which at this stage of the --

remember that first debate when kamala harris went after him. that was a gift to him. you cannot coast through this. you've got to wake up. i feel like being the so-called inevitability candidate, on the one hand there's obvious advantages, but it's a dangerous place to be, because it's fluid. we're talking about someone to lead the troops, you want someone to inspire the troops. right now all the excitement seems to be with the most progressive candidates. i think joe biden, we haven't seen his full potential, but polls like these give him reason to step it up. >> a.b.? >> i do think its fluid, and i do think it's a serious warning sign for joe biden, who continuing to make missteps, misstatements, and is facing a lot of challenges in his campaign, a lack of excitement. elizabeth warren's juggernaut in term of how much support she has on the ground with very engaged

primary voters. that said, she still doesn't have non-white support really. she hayes college educated white people. in primary states like iowa, she will do very well. i'm assured by party establishment people that this really is early, though it feels light, and when they dig into the polling, voters find them a lou of choices, that means we don't really know where this will go. i'm stubbed to see bernie sanders doing so well. i think that's an indication that we're not entirely sure where there will look at thanksgiving. >> a.b., such a smart point. i always love the reminders of how much we miss. the national media misses so much of what happens on the ground for these campaigns and these candidacy sits. while the sanders campaign isn't all sort of above ground, there is sort after movement. i was surprised to see him tied with warren and biden.

it's important to poll out this pooh has a five to seven-point margin of error, the biden campaign a pushing back vigorously, david, your thoughts? >> elizabeth warren is in a very good spot in iowa. she may very well might overtake joe biden. for bernie sanders, it comes down to new hampshire. we don't often talk about bernie sanders. he has a very loyal constituency, but as biden falls, all of a sudden sanders is now in range. warren and sanders have a real competition in new hampshire. whichever one comes out on top in new hampshire is looking good to be the foil to joe biden. >> it's hard to war game this all out, but if you're joe biden, to be losing that altitude in a respectable poll has to make you nervous. especially -- once that starts

to get chipped away, that becomes a self-if you filling prophecy. the other point, nicolle, they put everybody in the same bucket. bernie sanders' coalition is a middle class and down coalition. hers is an upskate college coalition. they are both progressively on that side. they could both go very deep into this nomination fight. the sanders movement is strong, durable. she's obviously got a lot of momentum, but they were not taking votes away from each other. the problem is if you look at the cross-tabs, bernie sanders is starting to take away votes for joe biden. >> he's work -- >> he has a working-class candidates from the left who is chipping away at some of his support. he's got a lot of issues coming

from a lot of directions. >> elizabeth warren's crowd on the stump is so good. >> i said it while you were away last week. every race there's a candidate like the lightning in the bottle campaign. this campaign right now looks like the lightning in the bottle camp. she has something you can't buy and you can't steal. >> my thanks to raul, john, a.b. and david. i'm so happy to be back. thank you for watching. "mtp" is necessary and starts right now. "mtp" is necessary and starts right now. \s the president changes his tone again. he embraces russia, and tows his own golf resort as a place for next year's global summit.

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