that wraps us up this hour. i'm stephanie ruhle. i'll see you at 1:00. i hand you off to hallie jackson. >> steph, thank you so much. we start with the democratic primaries double-barrel blast from the past. starting with the front-runner, back on the campaign trail in a big way and bringing in a big hitter after spending a week out of the public eye. a week where not so great headlines did most of joe biden's talking for him. he's now unleashing a six-figure media blitz, leaning on his old boss. >> for eight years, president obama and vice president biden were an administration america could be proud of. >> bringing it very much into the present. within just the last hour, senator elizabeth warren releasing her criminal justice reform plan, calling to repeal a lot of the crime bill, that

senator biden helped write in the 90s. warren is on a roll. we're talking some 12,000 people in minnesota. >> and we build the america of our best values. thank you. >> we have a great team to break it all down. garrett haque is des moines. ali vitale from out in sioux city. we haven't seen or heard much of joe biden in the last week. what's his plan after last week saw a couple of missteps for the campaign. >> reporter: yeah, hallie, biden was on vacation, then raising money. today we will be back spending some of that money, coming back for his sixth trip since announcing his campaign, and going up with his first ad

six-figure. it does a couple of things. fundamentally goes to his main points of this campaign, talking about donald trump front and center. it includes his service in the obama administration. and it does something you don't typically see in campaign ads, at least at this stage of the game. showing polls showing him beating donald trump. talking about strength, him as the one person who could beat donald trump. democratic primary voters seem to be leaning into that. a new cnn poll is out showing biden with one of his biggest leads in the national poll we have seen up 14 points on bernie sanders and gaining from the last time that cnn survey was in the field. that dove tails what we have seen in iowa. the average have biden up 10 points. he has made it fairly explicit. he needs to win in iowa to show strength in the midwest. he is coming back here today guns blazing, hallie. >> that's for sure. somebody else has also been out on the campaign trail, ali vitale, somebody you cover, elizabeth warren. she pulled that really big crowd

of hers overnight, the biggest of her campaign yet. now she seems to be out today with this criminal justice reform plan, very carely taking on the guy that garrett covers, joe biden. >> reporter: you're absolutely right. she will be highlighting the plan in minnesota a little bit later this morning. she doesn't name joe biden when she put out her criminal justice reform plan. >> right. >> reporter: she is taking him on by looking at the 1994 crime bill he wrote. elizabeth warren is in good company in terms of looking at that bill critically all of these years later and putting joe biden squarely in the crosshairs on it. as it relates to her new policy, she wants to repeal the pluck of that crime bill. but she wants to keep certain parts if you talk to folks in biden's world, they have aged pretty well. i'm talking about the violence against women act. warren is not taking aim at that. but the rest of it says she must go. >> when you look at a crowd like the one she drew last night, i know the polls show that biden has a commanding lead over the

field. but kraoeudz like last night, 12,000 people is the biggest she's has ever had and makes campaigns take notice. >> garrett, you know, criticism of the '94 crime bill is not new for joe biden or his campaign. you have to imagine they expected this or something like this at some point, no? >> reporter: oh, absolutely. look, they have been stuck in a time warp on the '94 crime bill since joe biden got in this race. it comes up again and again. it's been at the heart of the criticisms from kamala harris, cory booker, castro to some degree. biden believes it was good work done at a time that it needed doing. but any time you are talking about 1994, not talking about his service in the obama administration, which the campaign feels more broadly echoes this electorate. by the way, you're not talking 2020 and beyond, which of course is what this campaign is all about. >> ali, you talked about the issue of enthusiasm for senator warren. the new cnn poll shows elizabeth warren, listen, she dropped

down, ticked down a percentage point. she is still very solidly in the top tier of biden, sanders, warren. what is your sense translating from the crowds to the poll numbers? >> reporter: hallie, i think that over the course of the last few months as we have been seeing warren slowly tick up third place, second place, she's in the top tier of candidates. really, if you look at the campaign and the way they have been campaigning, they have not changed even with the surges in the polls. it's been policy plan after policy plan. they are ticking through the campaign the way they want to. even if you ask senator warren as i have how she was about the latest spike or latest drop back that she has seen in polls, she is very much staying the course. they look at this as i'm sure many of the other campaigns do. and they have said this about the biden campaign has too it's a marathon not a sprint. we still have a long time to go until people start caucusing or casting votes. really it is a matter of staying

in the top tear. one thing i'm interested in, we haven't really seen elizabeth warren take much incoming from people on similar tiers of this race. i know that john hickenlooper and delaney went at her in the last debate. she was also doing that defensive progressive policies with bernie sanders. in this next debate, that's what i'm looking to see. it will go to other candidates like cory booker and khraeuamal harris. >> thanks to the both of you. let me bring in msnbc zerlina maxwell, director of progressive programming at sirius xm, david jolly, msnbc political contributor and senior adviser doug thornell. let me start with you, zerlina. bobbi healthy lead now. he has picked up the double-digit lead over the others in his field, according to latest polling. the enthusiasm we talked about with ali vitale out on the campaign, maybe not translating

as much as she had hoepltd into some of these numbers. >> it is one of my favorite colleges to have visited in recent years. such a beautiful place. what elizabeth warren is doing is she's a serious and substantive campaign. and it is very slow and steady. it takes a minute to warm up but slow and steady through the race. in terms of biden, i think he is a placeholder in this moment. i may be completely wrong and regret saying that later. many of the same indicators that were true of hillary clinton, big leads among older african-americans, big leads in critical states like south carolina. that is true for joe biden. i honestly believe the electability argument we have been working under is incredible. folks are saying, well, other people are more likely to vote for joe biden because he's a

white guy. he was the vice president for two successful terms. and so i will tell pollsters that i support joe biden when i really like kamala harris or when i really like pwaurpb. i'm afraid because hillary clinton lost. i'm afraid if we nominate a woman, we will have a devastating defeat again. if you're a progressive in this particular primary, support who you like. go all in for that person. everybody is on the same page about voting for a democrat no matter who the nominee is. if you like a woman right now, order to win the nomination you have to tell people that's who you support and you have to go out and work on her behalf. that's 80s rant for another day. >> you talk about electability. guess who else is talking about it? joe biden. and joe biden's wife. i want to play that and then get

your reaction to it. watch. >> you know, your candidate might be more health care than joe is. you have to look at who wins this election. maybe you have to swallow a little bit and say i personally like so-and-so better. but your bottom line has to be that we have to beat trump. >> congressman, the "new york times" describes those as extraordinarily blunt terms. >> yeah. but incorrect. jill biden would make a fantastic first lady, accomplished educator in her own right. but the most important poll that came out during this sleepy august was late last week, the fox news poll that got the president so upset. it is because all four or five of the leading democratic candidates are beating donald trump by 6, 8, 10 points. frankly, i think the rest of the field would beat him as well if they emerge it of iowa, new

hampshire or south carolina. so for democrats, if you're a democratic voter, and zerlina's point on the electability, choose whatever direction you want to go. what the polls showed us last week, any one of the candidates can beat donald trump. his negatives are so high. and the contrast between donald trump and optimistic policy-driven democrat, the democrat wins every time. i think if you're elizabeth warren, bernie sanders in new hampshire, if you're cory booker, kamala harris, you need to make sure democratic voters see the fox poll from last week that says any one of us can beat donald trump. jill biden, wonderful, accomplished woman. but she is wrong on this point. joe biden is not the only person that can beat donald trump. >> sanders and warren are right there neck and neck within a percentage point of each other. joe biden ahead of them. but not heading to a meeting that i think you know pretty well. you're at least familiar with for the party's last national

meeting. biden will stay and campaign in new hampshire ahead. smart strategy or not? considering california moved its primary up. >> it is important to the strategy. so is iowa. a new ad is smart because in iowa right now, the airwaves are not clogged like they will be in two or three months. tom steyer and kamala are the only one running ads right now. you have biden with his ad. i think the story of this summer when we're out, past labor day, i think there's two big stories. having gone to what he went through during the debates and the criticism from the press. and the second thing, and i think it's just as important, is the rise and surge of elizabeth warren. and it's not just the policy idea she puts out there. she is the best operation of anyone running right now in terms of staff in ski early

states. she's blanketing that state with staff. so that's a really important thing that ultimately they're hoping can turn what we are seeing some in the early polls into actual voters for the caucus night. . >> you know what's really interesting. i think if we had this the day after the first democratic debate, there would be folks who said in six months, three months, after labor day we will be talking about senator kamala harris. the new polling she has had a pretty significant drop. she is down 12 points since june. what do you make of it? do you think her campaign needs to hit the reset button here? >> i don't know that it needs a reset button. but i do know one of the dynamics was happening here, kamala exceeded way over -- exceeded expectations in the first debate. unfortunately, women of color don't necessarily have the same level of entitlement to running for president or being the leader. so we have to have a vision of what that might look like. and at that first debate, what

we saw is a senator who could take on donald trump. a black woman who could take on donald trump. in america's history there have only been three black women, three, that have run for president of the united states. it's important to understand that is a dynamic here. so she overexceeded expectations. the second debate was not as strong. so you saw a dropoff. ive honestly believe we are so far out from the first votes cast and california being moved up to super tuesday, she is still in a solid position in terms of building that obama coalition. so i think that certainly there was a dropoff because of the two debate performances. i think she's a victim of high expectations after that performance and debate where she really knocked it out of the park. >> it is always a pleasure to have your expert analysis on the show. thank you much. lots more to get to over the next 350 minutes or so, including the white house insisting the economy is not

heading to recession. we'll tell you what the team may be doing behind the scenes to avoid a slowdown and what it might mean for your paycheck. also, why planned parenthood is choosing to lose millions of dollars in government money rather than comply with the new trump administration rules. breaking news in new york. the state attorney general, looking at it live right now, announcing a lawsuit against the white house. what's the deal? it's a suit against the administration's change in what is called the public charge rule. we're watching that for you live. we'll have more coming up. l hav! (excited squeal, giggling/panting) gotcha! (man) ah! (girl) nooooooooooooo! (man) nooooo! (girl) nooooo... (vo) quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker, and is two times more absorbent than the leading ordinary brand. (man and pirate girl) ahoy! (laughing)

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we have some breaking news to share with you out of new york where the state attorney general moments ago has announced plans to sue the white house over the change in something called the public charge rule as it relates to immigration. watch. >> we are here today because as the attorney general of the great state of new york, today we are filing a lawsuit to prevent the new interpretation of the public charge rule from taking effect. . >> let me bring in now nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. explain what this means. new york is not the only state moving forward with a lawsuit, right? >> reporter: right. connecticut and vermont are also joining new york on this particular suit. and there may be other states filing lawsuits of their own. the public charge rule has actually been on the books for well over 100 years. and it says that the people can

be denied lawful status to stay here if they would be a public charge. that is to say if they would be, as the original proponents, as they say, a drain on financial resources. they would require public support. the trump administration reinterpreted it to say if someone comes to the u.s. and seeks to have a green card, that is to be a lawful permanent resident, they could be denied the status if they have soft such public benefits as food stamps, medicaid or section 8 housing vouchers. the states are saying this goes well beyond what the law and the constitution actually allow the government to do. the roots of the public charge rule are not that savory. they came at a time when the government was trying to discourage chinese immigration the rule is being enforced in a

way since. the trump administration argues that perfectly consistent with what the law allows the government to do. >> pete williams live for us there here in washington. pete, thank you for that explanation. we have reached out to the white house for the suit. it happened about 14 minutes ago. so nothing yet. we will keep you posted if and when we hear anything we are hearing from the white house on something else, something related to the economy. an official telling me they are not considering a payroll tax cut, at least right now. that conflicts with a couple of new reports that there are some in the administration mohr musing about the possibility. as the "washington post" puts it, the they are talking about boosting a slow economy with concerns about recession potentially going nowhere. with us now, geoff bennett, my colleague covering the white house on the north lawn, white house bureau chief and msnbc political analyst, phillip rucker. thanks for being with us. geoff, bring us up to speed on what the white house is saying.

it's not just the "post", others are reporting, yeah, maybe this is being considered, but the white house is saying, huh-uh, no way. >> reporter: we talked before, hallie, how a strong economy is key to trump's re-election bid. having a recession happen on his watch could be political kryptonite. as you mentioned, they are dismissing reporting that they are active live considering cutting payroll taxes to boost consumer spending by way of a statement. it says this. as larry kudlow says yesterday, more tax cuts for the american people are certainly on the table, but cutting payroll taxes is not something under consideration at this time. there is a phrase at the statement that caught our eyes. the more tax cuts for the american people are certainly on the table. take that with a huge grain of salt. as many people remember, just before the 2018 midterms, president trump repeatedly promised a 10% tax cut for the middleclass. after the election, he dropped it. never to be heard of again. meantime, the president is still

pressing the fed really bullying the federal reserve chairman to do more to stimulate the economy. i have to tell you, the main takeaway from business leaders and economists is the administration has got to find a way to reach some sort of trade deal with china to really stem that uncertainty before this trade war reshapes the economy in a way that runs counter to the president's overall goals, hallie. >> phil, even as this discussion is happening inside the white house about the possibility of some tax cuts, which officials have now confirmed, is even that an indication that, yeah, they are concerned despite posturing about the possibility of an economic down turn down the road. >> that's absolutely right, hallie. a great concern inside the white house that belies the president's public declarations of confidence in the economy. >> right. >> reporter: that is why there was a scramble taking place. yesterday there were discussions about the payroll tax cut and other measures. my colleague, damian poletta, reported that, and the white house put out that statement to

say it was no longer under consideration. but it was being discussed yesterday. a number of other measures are being talked about because the white house is looking for some way to shore up this economy, to stave off a downturn. as geoff was just saying, it would help protect the president politically as he heads into the re-election campaign. . >> let's talk about the politics piece of this. phil, i know you remember this, and geoff brought it up as well, the president a year ago talking about the possibility of tax cuts. here it is. >> reporter: yeah. >> we will continue to cut your taxes, cut your regulations, and raise your incomes like we have been doing. >> we passed a massive tax cut. >> we will soon follow it up with another 10% tax cut for the middleclass. . >> we're going to be doing a 10% tax cut for the middleclass. we're starting the process already with kevin brady. >> okay. those have not materialized. here we are a year later. very few americans would be

unhappy about getting their taxes lowered, phil. is this a political strategy on the part of the white house based on your reporting? >> reporter: certainly back to the midterms it was a political strategy to make a false promised. it never materialized. there was never a tax cut under consideration last fall during the campaign season. there potentially could be something now because of the economic problems. but it is less of a political move to sort of make people feel excited about their taxes. and more of a real measure to stave off a recession. because there are so many more of negative indicators that we could possibly be heading towards a downturn. they are trying to figure out what the government can do. >> really quickly, if there was a tax cut proposed, any appetite on the hill or would that be d.o.a. in the house? >> reporter: dead on arrival, you're right. it would likely go nowhere. funds, medicare, social security, two major programs that democrats care a lot about. economists who studied the 2017 tax cut say it never really

materialized in terms of investment and overall growth. so it would likely to go nowhere. >> at the north lawn, you have a way with words, my friend. thanks to the both of you. i appreciate it. up next on this show, an nbc news exclusive investigation that is blowing up online right now. and we've got the guy who spent months working on it. how the single biggest spender on pro-trump ads is linked to a spiritual group in china the government there calls a cult, and that's just part of it. government there calls a cult, and that's just part of it meown, we'll inform them that liberty mutual customizes home insurance, fo. your turn to keep watch, limu. wake me up if you see anything. [ snoring ] [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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so overnight we are getting new reaction from russia warning that the u.s. is at risk of reviving an arms race. that's because of this missile launch sunday off the coast of california. the first time in more than 30 years that the u.s. military tested something like abandoned war era inf treaty earlier this month. joining me from the pentagon, courtney kube. what else are we hearing from russia? >> reporter: well, they are not happy about this test. but think about where it came from. the united states has been saying russia has been in violation of the inf treaty.

from the and the trump administration have been vocal about that. other partners, allies, including nato, have come out and said russia has been in violation. back about six months ago, the united states announced they were giving russia six months to come back into guidelincompliane u.s. would withdraw completely. it means not just developing and tefpting but not deploying the missiles, which russia has been doing in violation of the treaty. we saw over the weekend the first time the u.s. launched a ground launch conventional cruise miss well a range of 500 to 1500 kilometers, which the treaty said the u.s. could not have any missiles that launched at that range. in fact, the pentagon was telling us this launch was in california. it flu just over 500 kilometers and it hit its target. >> the pentagon is also not going to stop these tests because russia says these are regrettable. >> absolutely. this is the beginning of these

tests. the statement from russia saying this could be the beginning of an arms race. that's exactly what the international community has been concerned about all along with the u.s. withdrawing from the inf treaty. there was a real effort by nato, the secretary-general and by others to try to convince russia to come into compliance and to try to find a way to revive or fix the treaty. but the u.s. withdraw october 2nd. >> thank you for being with us. appreciate it. >> reporter: sure, thanks. >> we want to share an nbc exclusive months in the making. it is a wild one. like seriously wild. we're going to cover crazy stuff inside the fever swamps of the internet. a conspiracy-theory loving, donald trump-adoring outlet you may never have heard of, but it is huge. it is getting bigger. wait until you hear who is behind it. we're talking about the epic times. it is an organization based out

of new york, kind of small in size, but definitely not in reach. it has one of the biggest social media followings of any news outlet, any of them. we're talking more than 6 million followers on facebook. videos reach a ton of eyeballs. 3 billion views on facebook, twitter. that outranks every traditional news outlet. it comes in 11th, 11th among anybody creating videos at all, not just news people. it is really visible, really out there. it really likes president trump. epoch spent 11,000 pro-trump ads in the last six months. put that in perspective. that is more money on pro-trump ads than anybody other than the campaign itself and more than candidates spent on their own. that engagement has made the epoch times a key component of the president's re-election campaign. the president's own facebook

page has posted content at least half a dozen times this year, with several articles written by members of the trump campaign. so who is behind the opoch times. ? it is a chinese spiritual community. they are to take down the chinese government. ben, listen, you have been working on this with our colleague for some five months now. you call it one of the strangest stories you have ever covered. >> reporter: yep. >> talk us through some of the other headlines here. >> reporter: sure. so this is an organization that says it is deep state and this cabal led by hillary clinton that has taken over the world. it is this spiritual group that believes president trump is about to issue in a judgment day. he's helping accelerate towards judgment day where all

communists will be sent to hell, which can be in their eyes people like hillary clinton or jackie chan. they will be sent to hell. and everyone who is sympathetic to it, will be sent to heaven. and they think pretty much every project these guys do has to do with that. it includes the epoch time. you have seen ads for this dance troupe. they do that too. it is about making sure this judgment day, which is 30 years later, by the way, is about to come. >> the folks behind the epoch times were not the most forth coming. what did thief at the to say? >> reporter: they put out a story that said our questions were inappropriate. their response was retweeted by devin nunes in the months since then. they have a lot of ties to major figures on the right. they spent 40 minutes talking to lara trump.

. >> it is not just lara trump. it is other people. conservative lawmakers. they have all had conversations with the epoch times. >> reporter: yeah. there is a mysterious photo of president trump being handed a manila envelope. it is weird. the president's facebook page sent out six epoch times stories. i can't stress how large this is. they are much bigger than us on facebook, much bigger than any traditional news organization on facebook. and on youtube as well. they buy all of this ad space, spend millions of dollars on this place. and they get in front of people's eyeballs. they dwarf traditional coverage. . >> explain why people should care about what they are doing and who backs them. ben hurley talked about how it is so rabidly pro-trump and

talked about the devout practitioners who are behind the epoch times here. >> reporter: they have beliefs that are very specific, right? they don't believe in taking medicine. they think it has to do with your karma if you get through a disease. that's the reason he says he left. they are based on a compound in dragon springs, new york, upstate new york. we don't know where all of this money is coming from. we straight-up don't. we treatied for months. it is being spent on facebook. free flyers in the mail to mostly older people talking about the deep state with a chart about how hillary clinton and her, you know, gang has taken over the world and stuff like that. so this is really -- again, i want to stress this. traditional media and media like this are on the same plane now. we are in the same space. and they have a more sensational, more interesting story to tell, even if it's largely not true. >> even if it is riddled with

conspiracies and pushing false information and disinformation out to people. yet it seems to be getting traction in conservative circles. do you see that changing at all or no? >> reporter: absolutely no. they have so many weird, hidden things. the senior staff here was creating a youtube channel on the side. it was pushing the theory that hillary clinton people are pedophiles trying to eat babies. they got 33 millionub section oe same group. we don't know how sprawling this is. we spent months on this. we are not at the bottom of it. the point is to create something else. >> i urge folks to check out your piece on nbc news.com. it is one of the most read articles of the day. thank you for coming on to talk about it. wild indeed, my friend. >> reporter: thank you, hallie. up next, a major new development in the fight over women's reproductive rights. planned parenthood's new stand

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the first survivor of alzis out there.ase and the alzheimer's association is going to make it happen. but we won't get there without you. join the fight with the alzheimer's association. got a little bit of breaking news coming to us out of italy creating real uncertainty in one of europe's biggest economies. the italian prime minister just announced he is going to resign. he's been under pressure since his own interior minister called for a no-confidence vote against him earlier this month.

now in the last few minutes while talking with the italian senate, conte will formally hand in his resignation today to the president, who will have to decide if he wants to call early elections or try to put together a new coalition. we are keeping an eye on what's happening here at home. in the eyes of some, president trump maame now be able to say he defunded planned parenthood. it is now giving up government dollars. the rule now bars federal family program title x for referring women for abortions. the money also went to services like affordable birth control, pregnancy tests and std screenings. in a statement, the acting president and ceo of planned parenthood says, we believe that the trump administration is doing this as an attack on reproductive health care and to keep providers like planned parenthood from serving our patients. health care, the statement goes on to say, shouldn't come down

to how much you earn, where you life, or who you are. congress must act now. people's lives fend on it. joining me now washington most partial reporter focused on health care, paige winfield cunningh cunningham. thank you for being with us. >> of course. >> this is the late e. in years-long fight over changes to title x. is this being perceived as a victory for president trump >> reporter: absolutely. he made a lot of promises to anti abortion folks this win their confidence in 2016. this idea of defunding planned parenthood was one of those promises. but, you know, he really failed to do that in the first couple of years of his presidency. what congress was trying to do was strip planned parenthood of medicaid dollars. they weren't able to do that. they were trying to do it through a repeal of obama care. they decided to go after the title 10 planning dollars and

put out new rules very similar to stricter regulations put out under the regan administration pack in the 80s which said if you don't comply with these restrictions on abortion, then you won't be able to receive these grants. and so rather than comply planned parenthood announced it will withdraw from the program. it is the largest provider of title x services, serving 40% of low-income women who benefit from title x. >> it is a lot of sfgss. it is birth control as well more broadly. let me pull up this map. for women in 105 counties across the united states, you talk about the reach here, 34r57plan parenthood is the only full-service birth control clinic in their area. how will this affect those who relied on the program >> reporter: the administration is trying to make the argument that other health providers would step up and provide

services. but, you know, this is a last-minute thing here. the grants were awarded earlier this year. and planned parenthood said they are withdrawing from the program. it is a real question where the grant dollars will go. $60 million in grant funding. >> yeah. >> reporter: and i have asked the administration where that money will go. they haven't answered that question either. so a lot of this stuff is kind of last minute and i think to be decided. so it could leave women in some areas who go to their local planned parenthood clinic to get birth control. it could force them to find an alternate location. >> the statement we just read talks about pushing congress to do something here. what are the hrepl shraeufb options for lawmakers? >> reporter: well, it's hard to think that this congress with republicans in charge of the senate would try to do anything to thwart a rule put out by the administration. i think advocates are probably hoping just for a change in

administration in 2020. because of course a democrat-led administration could reverse this rule. we have seen this happen before. the regan administration put out a very similar regulation. it was upheld by the supreme court. then president clinton reversed it. so that's probably their best option at this point. they are also fighting it in court. that remains to be seen. they could have some successful there. but all of that is going to be playing out through the rest of the year. >> paige, thank you. >> reporter: of course. >> the acting director of planned parenthood will join stephanie ruhle and ali srel city. the push to remove president trump from office is getting new momentum. the member of leadership who is now announcing support for impeachment investigation. and just what house speaker nancy pelosi is going to do. r nancy pesilo is going to do. announcer: fidelity is redefining value with zero account fees for brokerage accounts. and zero minimums to open an account. at fidelity those zeros really add up.

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he seems to be putting speaker nancea pelosi in a position where she focuses on congressional investigations instead. joining me now kasie hunt. kas, what is behind this here. ben said i support moving forward with an impeachment inquiry which will continue to uncover the facts. what is behind this? >> couple things hallie. it is important to remember there was a split in nancy pelosi's leadership. she is definitely under pressure to move forward on impeachment inquiry. ben lujan is in her circle on the leadership team but he is running for senate in new mexico and facing a primary challenge and that, the person he is running against is running as a progressive and this has really turned into a litmus test for

progressives. i think some of this can be explained by political circumstances and, you know, nancy pelosi has been very up front with her democratic members saying from a political perspective, you do what you have to do. you come out against me, you go right ahead. her interest is in protecting her majority and she realizes that different pieces of her majority have different demands from their own constituents. she has shown a willingness in the past to take the heat on their behalf. when they needed to go out and attack her in 2018 she said, go ahead. just win your race so you'll put me back in charge as speaker of the house. i think you have that going on here. >> lujan does have good relationship with freshman lawmakers and i wonder if this means that he will have some sway and some influence there moving forward with them. >> excuse me. >> no, that's okay. >> i do think that that is

possible since he, as you point out, built these relationships. >> let me let you catch your breath because i want to read what he had to say. he cited the mueller's report. he said, what is evident is that president trump issed ed advoca his responsibility to defend our nation from russian attacks. this is in line from what we heard on the 124 others on the house democratic side that have come forward. >> it brought the caucus to where it is and i think there are some real questions about, you know, how pelosi may handle this if this starts to get even worse for her, which it could. >> kasie hunt, thank you. coming up next hour, now that president trump appears to be backing away from background check legislation we're talking with chris murphy about passing any gun reform. here, we'll be right back with what our sources are saying.

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populism. you were talking about what is happening in italy and a lot chaos. for trump, this is an interesting predicament because he road a wave and running for re-election under the premise he is good for the economy. if there is a recession, that harms his case there. at the same time, he prepped his base for scapegoating others for an economic crisis. so, even if there is an economic collapse of some sort, it might not matter to trump's base. he might actually be able to convince them that it is not his fault. >> the sources you are talked to concerned that scapegoating could, in fact, inflame some of this right wing fervor that we're seeing. >> we could see back sliding not only in the u.s., but europe. obviously, in the uk things are not going as well either with tensions linked to brexit. we've seen him try to blame jerome powell and the media. the media is to blame for a

potential recession. we'll see some more democratic backsliding, that is what my sources say, yes. >> that is your look at the nra and new funding stuff. what are your sources telling you? >> a lot of frustration within the group because of very sizable expenditures that the nra made flying hair and makeup artists around the country to do hair and makeup for the wife of nra ceo. i would be the first person to go after the hair and makeup mafia. ia what frustrates is instead of using local talent, they were spending big bucks to fly people around so that they would be able to work with the nra ceo's wife. what we learned a long-time board member of stock car racing fame has resigned from his post. i got a copy of the resignation letter he sent and in it he alludes to the way the nra has been wading into culture war issues saying the nra needs to focus on the core mission of the

second amendment rather than hints at bashing the media. >> sounds like a crisis point for the nra. thank you for being on and filling us in on what your sources are telling you. that wraps it up for me. i'm headed to the white house. craig melvin. >> we'll see you then. thank you. craig melvin msnbc world headquarters in new york city. the stakes are higher. that is part of the message joe biden's team is rolling out today making the case that he is the most electable and it comes just as the leads in a national poll. >> we have to beat donald trump. joe biden is the strongest democrat to do the job. no one is more qualified. plus, backing down or hitting pause? the new report that the president is retreating from his pledge to pursue stronger background checks despite his insistent he is not. so,