fireworks in detroit. the reaction rolling in already today. >> i felt like it was a great opportunity last night to show my heart and my head. >> leading candidates prepared for a pile on. boy, did they get it. not just kamala harris but joe biden. vice president facing fire from every other podium from the moment he walked on stage. >> the vice president has still failed to acknowledge that it was wrong to take the position that he took. >> mr. vice president, you can't have it both ways. >> it looks like one of us has learned the lessons of the past and one of us hasn't. >> mr. vice president you want to be president of the united states, you need to be able to answer the tough questions. >> our team of reporters and analyst here to break it down along with top stories of the day. road warriors in detroit mike medley covering biden campaign. mike hill following senator harris. garrett haake covers cory booker.

let me start with you, where does joe biden go today and how is he feeling? >> hard to over state how much the biden campaign feels better about last night's performance compared to what we saw in miami earlier. he take out strong, took the fight to donald trump right away in the opening statement. as promised and stuck to the plan, made the comparison with kamala harris on health care. when he played the malarkey card, he has come to play. he did learn lessons. much more receptive to krilt simple of his performance and mored interest in learning about his opponent's record to use it in the debate. not to say it was completely flawless performance by any means. what biden m's's tell us, some he was able to introduce about rivals. he's a much better known commodity among voters. those attacks do less lasting

damage to him than they might do to kamala harris. where do we go from here, one indication we know biden feels better we expect to talk with joe biden today. he's going to make a stop in detroit before he resumes his schedule in nevada. i think the debate matchup people really want to see with elizabeth warren potentially in houston next month. also something introduced last night, are these attacks on president obama that were obviously a way for democrats to attack joe biden something that worries him and should concern democrats going forward. >> that's a topic we're talking about later in the show. mike, when do you expect to see the former vice president timing-wise. >> we're expecting to see him just after 11:00 hour. so unfortunately not going to do good live tv in your hour. >> i'm just trying to assess. if he does, we'll see you back for that. to you, senator kamala harris took some incoming. a little bit of a rematch for harris and biden.

at the same time she faced other front. how is she reacting? >> i actually just got off the phone with campaign adviser. sort of for morning after a reflective look at this race and where it's going from here. essentially that campaign adviser telling me, hey, look, kamala harris put her feet into the ground. for the last six months folks in this democratic primary have dragged her on her health care policy saying she's been flip flopping all over the place, doesn't have a defined record. what she showed last night was essentially a willingness to actually defend a plan she's put forward. by the time she gets onto a debate stage, potentially even september, which she may have bernie sanders, elizabeth warren on her left and joe biden on her right, at that point she'll be viewed as the fastball right down the middle. over the course not only on debate stages but over the course of these next five months on the campaign trail ahead of the iowa caucus, she will continue to explain her health care record. last night what you saw was

essentially a firing squad. nine candidates, pretty much the only person that came to her defense on health care was bill de blasio. kamala harris was there. i'll let you listen to the exchange with joe biden. it's a little bit of what you can expect going forward. >> vice president biden and i have a difference of opinion on this. when you look at the plan that the vice president is offering, as many as 10 million people will be without coverage. that's not tenable. >> kamala harris also was hit on her criminal justice record as d.a. and attorney general by not only joe biden but tulsi gabbard. the campaign said there are concerns that will continue to be brought forward about her past record. kamala harris will do her best to explain those. they believe her career as a prosecutor, when you look at it as a whole is a net positive. they say kamala harris will

continue to explain what she did as a prosecutor over the course of time why it's not only good during this democratic primary but during the general election, why it will be a net positive when taking that debate stage with donald trump. hallie. >> somebody who probably feels like they came away net positive, garrett haake is the guy you covered, one of them, senator cory booker, who seemed to have had, based on the analysis we've seen over the last 12 hours or so a pretty breakthrough performance. >> yeah. if this doesn't move the needle for cory booker, it's hard to see what will. they had exactly the debate they wanted. he was able to talk about his record, challenge the vice president on issues of race and criminal justice, which is something he's been telegraphing his desire to do over the last month or so. even when biden hit back, booker was able to parry effectively and come off as the happy warrior especially in this exchange which got a lot of attention last night. take a lte if you want to compare records, and frankly i'm shocked that you do, happy to do that.

>> why did you announce on the first day a zero tolerance policy of stop and frisk and hire rudy giuliani's guy in 2007 when i was trying to get rid of the crack cocaine industry. >> mr. vice president there's a saying in my community you're dipping into the kool-aid and you don't know the flavor. you're trying though shift the view from what you created. >> aside from the kool-aid product placement last night, booker had those two moments. the minor gaffe from joe biden who said future cory booker, the booker campaign felt good about. they have been e-mailing supporters with that quasi fake endorsement from the vice president. a number of focus groups, unscientific ratings of the debate that showed a strong performance from booker. i'm waiting to see if he got any boost to his fundraising overnight. he's already qualified for the september debate. you want that boost now. when you go into the next month,

august is a long, hot month with none of these marquis events like a debate to keep interest going. getting momentum out of detroit would go a long way for the cam paper. >> about campaign rallies, a bunch of candidates, including those you three covered getting on the road across the country. you guys, as we show the map of where candidates are headed, heading to detroit and various parts of the nation. so get back on the plane. we'll see you in a little bit. those guys aren't the only ones on the road. cory booker is. joining me now her press secretary. thanks for being on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> you probably heard the conversation with garrett haake, there are folks saying your guy's performance, welsch post in a new op-ed, how do you turn that into dollars and poll numbers before the next debate. >> that's why cory is hitting the ground running. we have an event tonight.

he crisscrosses the country, las vegas, philly, milwaukee, going to all four early states as w l well. to capitalize the momentum out of the debate, make sure we're hitting all the states across the country and making sure voters hear cory's message in person, what he did on the debate stage. >> let me play reaction from one voter we were speaking with in iowa talking specifically about senator booker's debate performance. i want you to listen to this. >> i was most interested to see cory booker and most disappointed in his performance. when he started his campaign, he had a message of being very constructive and running sort of a high road campaign. that's not what i saw on the stage tonight. >> fair to say as that voter seem to perceive that cory booker is ditching the high road strategy. >> absolutely not.

cory is someone bringing power to the message. he's not going to back away from tell the truth when it needs to be told of i think that's very clear on the debate stage when we were talking about criminal justice reform with vice president biden. this is a debate, a debate about ideas, and that is why we are having 12 debates all the way up until next year. it is because we need to hear what other candidates have to say. i think cory's message of unity has not gone away. he's one of those guys that tells the truth that needs to be told. i think you saw that on the dblt stage and why he's the best person to take on donald trump because he's not afraid to shy away from these fights. >> one of the fights he talked about and others on the stage talked about as well was formally president obama and obama pad manages record and policies. senator claire mccaskill out calling that a potentially

dangerous strategy given how popular president obama is in the democratic policy. do you see the risks in that? is that something cory booker will continue to do? >> i don't think he's attacking president obama. there's disagreements with the administration. >> with the policies, sure. >> yeah, with the policies. i think that's what he was talking about. look, cory on the campaign trail definitely talks about how much he misses president obama being in the white house. we now have a president who broadcasts or foreign policy by tweet before even going to his own cabinet officials. i think there's a lot of love and affinity for the obama administration, what they did. there are changes in policies that need to be made. there are communities like newark that are being left behind by this president and presidents before. that's why cory, you know, has said before, donald trump is the floor, he is not the ceiling. we can do better. we don't need to go back to 2012. we need to move forward. we need to go i don't know and we need to look for our future. >> sabrina, national secretary

for the booker campaign. thanks for being on. >> thank you. >> former national press secretary for hillary clinton's 2016 will came pain, democratic strategist joel payne and republican strategist veteran of three gop campaigns, michael singleton. thank you for being here. a reaction from you from what you heard from sabrina, came out on top last night? >> he learned a lesson from the first debate, it pays to do contrast with vice president joe biden. i expect cory booker to have a moment. >> do you buy he can be the happy warrior, preaching unity, love and go after biden. >> he interlaced with nods of keeping our eye on the prize and talking about the contrast with donald trump. let me say, i think there's a big element in the democratic party today and doesn't believe donald trump is the extent of our problem and wants a conversation about what the governing agenda will be for the

next democratic candidate. i don't think it's bother some at all to see candidates talking about contrast. some of the best performances, booker, castro. both of them had their best moments at the expense of the vice president. i think if you're a joe biden supporter, he was definitely better than he was in miami but still unevenness to that performance. there were answers where he still trade-off. i think the road is only going to get steeper. when he's on the debate stage with elizabeth warren, it will be tougher. >> joe biden stronger or weaker front-runner than yesterday. >> i think it's status quo. i don't think anything game changing for biden up or down. of the last two days, one candidate -- two candidates, cory booker, his arrow pointed up. elizabeth warren left last night, even though she wasn't on the stable, feeling really good. she was of the front-runners the most crisp throughout the two nights. she speaks with a certain clarity and certain command of

policy that really translates to voters. i think what we're going to see is probably a spike over the next seven to ten days in her numbers and her viability. one thing about biden, his entire theory of the case is about electability. electability means you can stand, take a bunch, give it back. despite the fact he was better, i think there's still something to be shown, a lot to be desired about his ability to do that. >> let me ask this, there are a bunch of viral moments at the debate. one with kirsten gillibrand going after the guy in the oval office. >> first thing i'm going to do when i become president, i'm going to clorox the oval office. >> you heard a pause and reaction from the audience in the room. do you think there was a missed opportunity for more candidates to go after president trump. >> i think so. what baffled me, i heard more about the obama years than drawing a distinction between how i am different than donald trump, what i will do that donald trump is not doing, how you're not winning under trump

but you can win under my administration. >> is that why you feel the person who came out best in the debate was the president. >> i did. i heard more about what they didn't like about obama versus what they didn't like about donald trump. >> taking it for granted they aren't for donald trump. >> i understand that. a lot of voters looking to democrats and say we know we dislike donald trump and policy conservatives amongst you guys. tell me what you're going to do to improve my life now that the current guy is not doing. they didn't do that effectively. >> candidates will have a chance to do that in september. not all candidates will do that, they probably aren't on the stage. "new york times" has a look at what seven candidates have qualified, hit the threshold, pull them up on screen. joel and brian we ask you, who on stage at these debates do you think will end up next debate. interestingly you both said the same person. julian castro. why? >> i think he's bringing

something to the conversation other candidates aren't bringing. he was one of the first people to call for the impeachment of the president. that became a trend in the democratic field. last flit on the issue of criminal justice reform, he brought around to the issue of qualified immunity, which is probably over the head of most of the audience but because the rest of the field isn't talking about it, it's one of the hallmark issues with respect to police brutality and civil rights against officers with excessive force aren't accounting for their actions. i wouldn't be surprised if other candidates copy cat it, put out criminal justice and specifically target that issue. >> in this primary two candidates have done the most with the least, beat buttigieg and julian castro. julian castro gets the least speaking time, national profile and he always maximizes it. he never leaves meat on the bone. he's crisp, back to democratic orthodoxy. also he represents major constituency for democrats next

time around. i would argue and i know the castro camp might not want to hear that. of the vp candidates he has shot to the top. every single one of those front-runners he fits with well. >> ten seconds you picked michael bennet. >> i did. you noticed a moderate in the race. democrats too much about the left and battleground many of those initiatives don't poll well. >> we'll talk with you three later in the show. so stick around. we also want to take a live look at the markets trying to bounce back after their worst day in a couple months thanks to a new move by the fed who got the latest ahead. first, a big vote going down in the senate just in the next half hour or so. what we know about the massive budget deal. the one president trump likes but other republicans do not. live on the hill with what to expect as it develops as we speak. o expect as it develops as we speak. if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently.

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this year and have every year is over a piece of the budget that is so the jet fumes are kicking in with senators ready to hit the road for recess. first they have to vote on that massive budget and debt ceiling deal. senator mitch mcconnell seems all kind of confident but privately republicans aren't down with what he's putting out. the bill is expected to have enough support from democrats to pass. live on the senate floor conversations about it. let me go to capitol hill with lee ape caldweledwell who is th. in 40 minutes there will be a vote and it's expected to pass. >> it's expected to pass.

mcconnell expected to drag it over the finish line because republicans don't love this legislation. mcconnell went to the senate floor this morning to make one final public plea to his members. listen to what he had to say. >> this the agreement the administration has negotiated. this is the deal the house has passed. this is the deal president trump is waiting and eager to sign into law. this the deal that every member of this body should support when we vote later this morning. >> because, hallie, republicans say this bill spends too much money and they say it adds too much to the deficit. we already have at least eight senators who have come out against this legislation publicly. there's a host more who are undecided. so the president is really getting involved as well as republican leadership. this was negotiated by the white

house. they are saying let's support this president to get this over the finish line. we don't want to barely pass this bill but we want a big republican showing. so what does this bill do? it's $2.7 billion. it increases nondefense spending, it increases defense spending. i want to make a point it increases nondefense spending by $10 billion more than defense spending, which is a big problem for republicans, democrats love it. it suspends the debt limit until after the election. the reason that's a big deal is because the debt limit is something that's so contentious it can lead to government shutdowns. it now moves that out of the way. another thing it does, adds $320 billion to the deficit over the next two years. it's a lot of spending for members up here. they are plugging their nose having to vote for this. >> we'll see it happen and then

when they get back i was speaking with one of my sources, watch more conversation about john ratcliffe replacing dan coats. >> absolutely. that's going to be top on the agenda when they return. ratcliffe, of course he's a member of congress but an unknown quantity in the senate in the sense of intelligence. that's going to be a very contentious vote but already the president is pushing this nomination wanting to get it through, hallie. >> lee ann caldwell, we'll check with you at the top of the hour with how this vote is going down. thank you. also a check on wall street. a check of the big board. the stock market bouncing back, up 125 points after yesterday's fed announcement, cutting rates really seemed to spook investors. dow up after news of that 25 basis point rate cut settling in. joining me cnbc economics reporter steve liesman.

steve, thanks for being with us. >> sure. >> i saw you at that news conference with fed chairman jerome powell. >> i was there. >> i heard you grilling him there. it seems like investors are concerned the fed was cap itulating to president trump with this rate cut. how does that play out. >> that's not the preeminent concern from invest issues. the concern is they are not capitulating enough to president trump. by that i mean the president right after the meeting said jay powell let us down again. remember, jay powell was president trump's nominee on this job. >> he's really soured on him. >> dramatically soured on him. criticized the federal reserve and fed chair in a way no president i think ever but certainly in the last 30 years has criticized the federal reserve. the president wanted a series of rate cuts. the fed delivered one 25 basis point rate cut and sort of said we're going to see about the other two here. so that was the reason why the market sold off, because it didn't get enough guidance from

the fed for more rate cuts to come. it may yet happen. you had some weak manufacturing data this morning. tomorrow's jobs report looms very large in this discussion. >> steve liesman, live for us from cnbc. steve, it's always a pleasure to have your business expertise. >> any time. >> turning back to politics after the break. the detroit debate featured a very interesting and rather surprising line of attack aimed at this man. not joe biden but the one next to him, former president barack obama. so is that too risky or will it work? we're talking about it next. r w work we're talking about it next. ♪ corey is living with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of her body.

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besides people on stage in detroit there was plenty of tuck about people not on stage. not donald trump, somebody else else. somebody maybe a little more surprising to hear about. >> president obama. >> obama. >> barack obama. >> president barack obama. >> thank you, barack obama. >> obama. >> barack obama. >> came under attack to get to his record to get at joe biden. is that risky. former under president obama, be wary of attacking on record. build on it, expand on it, but

there's little to be gained for the party by attacking a very successful and still popular democratic president. let me bring back executive director of demand justice and former press secretary fof hillary clinton campaign. also michael singleton and democratic strategist joel payne. joel, is eric holder right? >> eric holder represents a lot of folks concerned about what they felt like was an attack on obama legacy. i don't feel that way. i think there are no sacred cows in a primary. every generation of politicians builds on politicians. cory booker executed that message very well saying the obama legacy is there and it's to be respected but can be built on. that's fair game for people to talk about. bill clinton they talked about his legacy. george bush, republicans talked about it, that's the nature of politics. >> cory booker, no sacred cows, here is cory booker talking

about that. watch. >> i don't think any administration, as you and i both know who have been in public life, nothing is without criticism. >> i agree with my old boss eric holder any democrat running would be a fool to base the idea around running against barack obama but i don't think that's what you saw on the debate stage last night. i think one of the examples people are thinking of is the immigration exchange. >> yes. >> you think how that arose it was asked by cnn moderator, pointed question to joe biden if obama record of 800,000 deportations in two years was something he was proud of and would seek to add to that number. joe biden started off his answer saying he thought that was too many himself. you know what that was not a criticism new on the debate stage. you look at 2009, 2011, a huge backlash to the deportations under the barack obama

administration. barack obama one of the top five presidents of all time but the immigration record was a high point of controversy and part of the action that happened in the second term on dreamers was because of the agitating that happened from the immigration community. >> it still did put joe biden in a position, a corner, to defend the record on the on administration. >> i think that's an opportunity actually. >> go ahead. >> you think about something like obamacare. that's something i think joe biden can really talk about from a standpoint of we worked really, really hard to pass obamacare. brian and i were there. we remember. we got not a lot of sleep. a bill that was supposed to take six weeks took six months. ted kennedy passed away. democrats had a supermajority. they had to use every bit of political capital to pass that legislation of i think something biden can use as a point of distinction is to talk about how hard that was and how democrats should not underestimate. >> come back we'll talk about joe biden defended himgs on the other issue immigration.

>> the president came along, he's the guy that came up with the idea first time ever of dealing with dreamers. he put that into law. he talked about a comprehensive plan which he lay before the congress saying we should find a pathway to citizenship for people. to compare him to donald trump i think is absolutely bizarre. >> if you're a republican watching that, what do you take away? >> if you're viadvising donald trump, border. compassion, that's who we are. to have this notion you should decriminalize illegal crossings is absolutely absurd. tell that to people in the country having issues, local leaders, statewide, federal officials say we don't have enough money for these things but somehow we have enough money to let practically anybody into our country. it's absurd. look, you can debate how many people should come in. that's a legitimate debate to argue.

but to just compare president obama and his record on deportation being horrific is absolutely wrong. it is lathesulatolates a lot of say i'm compassionate, i want people to come in but we need a structure on doing so and a limit on how many people we let in. >> people asking like there was attacks made on barack obama. i think if barack obama were asked he'd probably agree. health care, barack obama himself in 2018 gave pa speech he thought medicare for all was a good idea the democrats should be talking about. i remember joel was there in 2016 hillary clinton made similar arguments that vice president biden is making against singer payer and talked how bernie sanders was risking gains we made under affordable care act. no less official than david axelrod called that misleading at the time. said acting to build on aca to move towards single payer was not something that would undo barack obama's signature accomplishment. >> go ahead. >> primaries are laboratories. these are healthy discussion

toss have right now. the democrats are very similar to where republicans were five years ago. these are essential issues to talk about. there was a really smart discussion about health care over the last two nights. i'm excited about that as a democrat. >> do you risk turning off people who love barack obama, such as african-americans, who democrats really need in key battleground states such as a pennsylvania, such as a michigan. do folks look at some of those candidates and say why are they talking about obama versus trump. i don't get this. there's sometimes a disconnect in d.c. on how regular people view these things. >> whoever the nominee is, barack obama will be out stumping in battleground states, joe biden, elizabeth warren, even bernie sanders. >> showing how popular barack obama is of americans, many think he's the greatest president -- you put him in the top five, a lot of people say -- >> second most popular obama. >> thank you for that conversation. appreciate it, guys. see you after the next debates. coming up so far joe biden,

the guy we've been talking about is way ahead in the polls among african-american voters. with the second debate is he going to hold onto the lead. we into to voters in flint, michigan, joining us live with that reaction next. >> what do you think about joe biden? >> joe biden is cool. i think we need fresh blood. i think we need fresh blood. [beep] you should be mad your neighbor always wants to hang out. and you should be mad your smart fridge is unnecessarily complicated. but you're not mad, because you have e*trade which isn't complicated. their tools make trading quicker and simpler. so you can take on the markets with confidence. don't get mad. get e*trade and start trading today.

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picking the potential democratic nominee, african-american voters among whom joe biden has the edge at least right now. after the detroit debate, does that last? let me bring in msnbc coordinator tremain lee. he's in flint, michigan. you had a watch party with folks there that had really big concerns, right? tell me what you heard? >> hallie, i'll tell you what, thank you for having me first of all. concerns would be putting it mildly. there was a blend of frustration, some concern but also some anger. as you know folks here in flint have dealt with some very serious issues in terms of not just the fallout from the water crisis but the political fallout as well. they simply can't truths their politicians and they refuse to. they have been lied to time and again. they are meeting these candidates now skeptically. i believe sound from folks i spoke with last night. let's take a listen. >> i keep hearing joe biden, joe biden. i don't think they are coming to our community but i haven't -- i respect joe biden was the vice

president to president obama, he was his vice president, but i wasn't really aware of criminal justice. >> i'm hearing them pick at each other, trying to prove points that really don't matter to make people look bad, trying to demonize your opponent to look better, that's the oldest trick in the book. >> reporter: one thing i heard time anagen, it's about the economy as much as it's about race, as much as it's about environmental concerns. one gentleman said you know what, if my belly is full, my children aren't eating consistently every day, what difference does any of it make. they want substance, tired of smoke and mirrors, they want solid, core issues being addressed. >> you're in the state of michigan, did not see a huge turnout among african-american voters in 2016. president trump won that state, not by much, fewer than 11,000 votes. what do you think it's going to be talking to voters there that's going to bring people out to vote come 2020.

>> i get the sense they want people to come to the community. often we hear about this mythological working class voter in the midwest. there's a default to white. when we say that we're talking about white. there are black working class voters, their fate and the fate of their families have gone with the whims of policy. they haven't seen a joe biden here, even though he's leading. they haven't seen a bunch of folks on the ground. meet where we are. come talk to us, get concerns and real deal. >> health care is one of the big ones you heard about, one of the big ones we heard about on the debate stage, too. >> that's right, without question. especially coming out of the water crisis. one woman said about medicare, there's an exception you give it to folks not of a certain age or impoverished. give it to folks, long-term ramifications. it's still heartbreaking talking to residents children's iqs are forever diminished because of

the lead, attention span, connection to criminality because of lack of impulse control because of the exposure to lead let alone those that died to legionnaire's they can't pin back to the water crisis. everyone here needs the truth. they need real answers and health care is monday top concerns. >> tremain joining us live, thank you for being with us. i appreciate it. coming up on this show, we're going inside the mysterious death of one of the world's most hunted terrorists. nuances and questions about osama bin laden's son. what led to his death. who was involved? why are officials say a whole lot of nothing. we have the latest, live from the pentagon from the reporter who broke this exclusive story next. e reporter who broke this exclusive story next i switched to miralax for my constipation.

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help stop the clock on further irreversible joint damage. talk to your rheumatologist. right here. right now. humira. there is a growing mystery this morning about the death of osama bin laden's son. u.s. officials staying very tight-lipped as nbc news addition into the government's role what happened. hamza bin laden was his father's heir apparent, set one day to take over al qaeda. the details surrounding his death are very unclear. first to break the news exclusively here on msnbc about

hamza's death. this is tough from a reporter's perspective. there's a lot we don't know, i lot we can't say, and a lot of questions about what happened to his son. >> the key questions are the basic questions of reporting. that is where, when and how did he die? how does the u.s. have confidence that, in fact, he's dead. we know very little about that. we have a sense he's been dead for some time according to u.s. officials and they have only just recently confirmed that. we still don't know exactly what role the u.s. government had in that. was it a prominent role? u.s. military involved? none of that is clear, hallie. we're still trying to dig into those details. >> hamza bin laden was being groomed to follow in his late father's footsteps and eventually take over as the next generation's leader of the terror organization replacing el

zawahiri. the most militant of bin laden's sons died sometime in the last two years but confirmation of his death came only recently according to three u.s. officials. it's unclear what the u.s. government's role may have been in his death. president trump not revealing any details. >> do you have any intelligence of bin laden's son being killed. >> i don't want to comment on it. i don't want to commenton that. thank you very much, everybody. hamza was just 7 years old when his father declared holy war on the united states. appearing in an al qaeda video soon after the september 11th attacks. followed by a series of video and audio after his father and brother killed by u.s. navy s.e.a.l.s in 2011. his rising influence noticed on a global scale. saudi arabia revoking his citizenship, the u.s. state department announcing a $1 million reward for information about his where about. so hallie, it appears as if

hamza bin laden was groomed to take over the terror organization that his father built years ago. he was raised in jihad. just 7 years old, as i said, when his father declared a holy war against the united states. . but the one thing he didn't have was any kind of war time or operational experience. that was something that he would have had a hard time with taking over al qaeda. he was never really a fighter, hallie. >> courtney kube, as we look at that wanted poster there. i know you're working on more good reporting. we'll see you back here if you get it. thank you. >> thanks. we'll be right back with what our sources are saying as we hear from lawmakers on capitol hill this morning with a stake at what went down in detroit. watch. >> senator, what hopped do you think -- >> well, i can tell you that after two nights of debates i have got a great deal of respect for those who are in the running. >> i hope that the next debate will focus more on donald trump and how he is destroying our democracy.

>> what unites us is much greater than what divides us. i think that gets lost when you have these -- well, what should we call them? spirited debates. l them spirited debates it's just the way things are. when you're under pressure to get the job done, it seems you have to accept the fact that some equipment will sit idle, or underutilized. but it doesn't have to be that way. that's why united rentals is combining equipment, data, safety and expertise to help your worksite perform better. united rentals. a better worksite is here. what's going on? it's the 3pm slump. should have had a p3. oh yeah. should have had a p3. need energy? get p3. with a mix of meat, cheese and nuts.

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this may well be the most fiscally irrelevant response able thing we've done in the history of the united states. the federal government is currently spending nearly $2 million every minute. don't let anybody fool you, this is a spending problem. the annual deficit this year

will exceed $1.2 trillion. what is irresponsible is recklessly indenturing our children and our grandchildren. >> that is senator rand paul a couple minutes ago on the senate floor. taking a look live now at senator chuck schumer. we're just a couple minutes away from the vote on that major budget deal. senator rand paul is clearly a no along with other republicans. the president's trying to get everybody in line. he's getting out his whip count, i guess you could say, on twitter. we'll be watching that vote as it goes down here in d.c. we're also looking at what our sources are saying. betsy is joining us. also joining me, nbc news intelligence ken dilanian. we have a theme, it's all the things going down in the i tell world. betsy, what are you hearing from your sources? >> that's right. what i've confirmed is that a former, very significant aide to ex-house committee chairman devin nunez has received a major

promotion within the national security council within the white house. he's senior directorate for counterterrorism on the nsc. that puts him in a role that's been historically challenging and important. you're very much in the nitty-gritty of intelligence and terrorism. this is a controversial guy. cash patel is the name of this official. while he was working for nunez, he worked for people that many people saw as a project to undermine the russia investigation. they thought patel was the tip of the spear for nunez for trying to discredit the ic. the fact that now he's workday in and day out with intelligence officials is something that has some folks a little concerned. >> what does it is a to you about the message it sends with his promotion inside that community? >> there's a lot of speculation about it but without a doubt it appears to be an echbl of someo example of a political ally on capitol hill becoming powerful in the white house. what also is important very early in the trump administration sources told me that pa trel tried to get a job

on the national security council but it didn't pan out. after that he went on to be a weapon for president trump on capitol hill and now we see him in this important role. >> ken, you got your hands on a letter, right? >> that's right. from four leading senators asking the president of the united states to authorize an investigation into white house security clearance practices. and they are not holding their breath for that to happen. >> not surprisingly, right? >> exactly. this is one of those stories that in any other presidency would be getting a lot of attention. i fear that it kind of gets lott in the noise of trump era. what we have reported, nbc news, is that jared kushner, ivanka trump and 30 other people have security clearances after career employees in the white house thought that they should not have them. so those career employees were overruled. in the case of jared kushner and ivanka trump, by the president of the united states him speflt and course congressional democrats want to know what's the deal? why? what were the problems and the issues? how is the white house making these decisions? >> and they asked the inspector general of the intelligence community to investigate and he came back and said, i'm sorry, i

can't investigate that. that's entirely a presidential function. i can only look at it if president trump asks me do that. hence the letter from these senators to trump yesterday saying, mr. president, we want you to authorize this investigation because we think you guys are doing the wrong thing with security clearances. >> seems to me implausible that president trump is ever going to authorize that? am i off base here? >> i think you're not. the white house has had no comment on this. >> ken and i were working on this story together yesterday and i reached out to the white house and they didn't want to say anything about it. but how do the democratic senators get the information they need if the trump administration is not going to play ball? >> they don't unless there are whistle blowers that come forward as some did to us and talk to them offline about what was going on in that office, they have no way to get that information. >> great reporting. i know it's the posted now on nbc.com? >> that's right. >> betsy, you're on the daily beast? >> that's right. >> love it. two superstar intel reporters, rock stars. thank you very much for being with us. think that does it for our show here. i was told to look at my email,

chuck schumer on the senate floor is laying the groundwork to try to avoid another government shutdown. that's it. chris jansen picks it up now in new york. >> government shutdown, thank you so much, hallie jackson. i'm chris jansen in for krail craig melvin here in new york. pulling no punches, joe biden is back on the trail today after taking hits from all sides in last night's bruising presidential debate as candidates piled on the former vice president, they also took quite a few shots at his former boss. that strategy raising quite a few eyebrows this morning. plus, on to the next for some democrats on that stage last night and tuesday, this was the end of the debate road. we'll break down who's a lock and who's contemplating their next steps. and, snatching back the spotlight. president trump hitting the trail today with another rally, but it's his first since that alarming moment when the send her back chants rang out.

what will we see tonight? let's begin with a fallout from political attacks or as our team put it, everybody was kung fu fighting. democrats at last night's presidential debate in detroit went after each other it seemed, far more than they went after president trump. senator kamala harris who had such a strong first debate found herself much more in the line of fire this time. but it was front runner joe biden serving as the main target after a seemingly cordial start. >> mr. vice president, there's a saying in my community you're dipping in the kool-aid and you don't even know the flavor. >> in 2007 you became mayor. you had a police department you went out and hired rudy giuliani's guy, you engablinged in stop and terrific. >> in 2019 in america, for a democrat to be running for president with the plan that does not cover everyone, i think is