without excuse. change that some voices, bernie >> vice president biden, i didn't hear your response when sanders, elizabeth warren and some last night, seem to want to the issue came up of all those try to cleave joe biden from deportations. obama it's turning into attacks you were vice president of the united states. on the vice president. >> mr. vice president it looks there were moments last night it felt like it was nine against like one of us learned the one. lessons of the past and one he was stronger than he was in the first debate, certainly. hasn't. >> you can't invoke president he was able to land some obama in the campaign, do it when it's convenient and dodge punches, he was able to counter attack some of what senator it when it's not. >> so apparently barack obama is harris and senator booker did. running for a third term in 2020. >> got to be a surprise for him. it showed some fight that he was lacking the last time around. i think that mattered since any general election debate with >> barack obama is on the list. >> and he's like what? >> several contenders attacked donald trump is going to involve the president's record last a lot of fight. night vis-a-vis joe biden while but there were moments he stumbled, not in control of the donald trump watches from the white house. eric holder tweeted this, quote, facts, and in the final argument when he tried to give his to my fellow democrats be wary website, he tried to give the of attacking the obama record, text number. it was one of those blunders that won't quiet the criticism build on it, expand it, but that maybe he is too old or lost

there's little to be gained for a step. you or the party by attacking a but think those around him suffered blows. i thought senator booker did a very successful and still popular democratic president. solid job, raised his profile >> barack obama, though, you got some. to think these campaign but senator harris who came in as the obvious alternative, very managers, hey, attack barack uneven as the debate went along and took hits from other obama and obamacare, make him contenders and didn't seem to have an answer for them. seem more heartless than donald >> adrienne, i guess my take trump on immigration. i'm sure polls will show he's away is that biden won by not that popular right with surviving and all the others lost by going after biden democrats anymore. >> to that point a cnn poll last year showed 97% of democrats, instead of the huge fire in front of them that is donald trump. anything else i missed? any other standouts? 9-7 had a favorable opinion of >> i think you're exactly right. barack obama. >> okay. >> and last year 82% of joe biden didn't need to have a democrats supported his pitch perfect performance last night. he needed to do a good job and signature health care law -- >> you're saying 97% of get through it. he did a good job articulating democrats -- >> yeah. his position on defending >> -- support barack obama? >> obama. correct. obamacare, we need to get this >> and 82% of democrats support

obamacare. fixed, tweaks need to be made >> yeah. >> i'm wondering why people who but we don't have to overhaul want votes from democrats spent the whole system. i think kamala harris did a good job. i think cory booker did a good all last night trashing barack obama saying support of barack job last night. he was the only one i saw on obama's signature plan, the stage who really took the battle affordable care act, the to trump. he's the one who wants to greatest step forward toward completely take away your health universal health care in the care. i was surprised that more history of the american candidates didn't try to draw republic, i'm wondering why they that contrast. were trashing that and the i think kirsten gillibrand had defense of that is republican good moments. talking points. michael bennet had some good it is insanity, my friends. moments. i'm not sure, to steve's point, >> i know. if that's going to matter in the especially since overall support long run. of obamacare, remember this, we have to keep in mind that the it's hard to forget -- threshold for the next debate is >> it was a year ago, though. really difficult to achieve for >> it was a year ago, helped a lot of candidates. so we might actually see a drive democrats to record debate in september where you midterm victories. have maybe eight to nine, ten >> those people talking at you candidates on the same stage in one night, which i think we need all the time. >> this was too easy for biden. because i think we need to see >> really, it's kind of -- i'm the tier 1 candidates have that so confused. i'm so confused. debate together on stage. >> i think it's time to whittle you have barack obama, by the

way, for the record, the most it down. >> yes. >> i think the best way to put popular democrat alive, the it is that the vice president held serve last night. i don't know that i'd say he first democrat since franklin won. roosevelt did it in 1932 and probably he held serve. did himself -- didn't do himself a lot of harm, and some of his 1936 and again in '42 and '44, main challengers had uneven nights as well. so i don't see a huge change in to win the majority of the votes, the first to do that, and the poll. you have people trashing one institution that did not obamacare and the sport of it is hold serve yesterday the boston republican talking points. red sox that decided they did and then they're trashing his not want to repeat as world immigration policies which donald trump and the republicans series champions, mike and attacked and used to elect jonathan, what happened? >> i think the red sox were much donald trump as being too like a lot of the people on the conservative. this was sort of -- we were sort stage last night during the of in a never never land last democratic debate. they didn't know what their night in that debate. position was. it was bizarre. so they waited for the trade just judging from what i've seen deadline to arrive at 4:00, they and what i've heard since that knew they had a need for at debate, a lot of the democrats least one bullpen arm, myself or jonathan could come out and do are pretty pissed off saying if equally as well as the people

you're thinking you're getting they have there right now. my vote by trashing barack at a minimum, it was truly obama's legacy, you have another disappointing that they did zero thing coming. >> playing to that 3% that don't in a time of need. like barack obama somehow. >> jonathan lemire, it's like the support as you pointed out you don't have to be a tpoliticl for the affordable care act itself is something at like 83 or 84%. so the president, obama is scientist to know when barack obama has a 97% approval rating popular, his policy is popular. they were getting at joe biden. you don't attack him if you want democratic votes. they knew this man, despite what like wise, if you watched one or happened in the last debate when he took a hit and kamala harris two boston red sox games this year, you know they needed somebody in the bullpen and they sat there and did nothing when rose in the poles, he settled they had -- they have a back in. chance -- had a chance, it's they knew the only way was to go over now, to actually repeat as at joe biden. they climbed hard last night, up world series champions, i guess to barack obama. the other side is they have to like donald trump they're just tired of all that winning. do something. it's not -- he's not above >> the red sox winning has a 97% criticism, joe biden, but you have to be careful how you do it disapproval rating among its fans. so you don't throw out the baby this is a team that won 108 games last year, had their struggles this year, a move or with the bath water who he

two away you get in the playoffs, post season, october served under for eight years. >> you have to attack donald trump. the lunacy of this exercise last baseball, you never know, maybe you're the team that catches fire. if this show was simply talking night was that donald trump's about -- do a post game analysis policy positions were attacked of the red sox trading deadline, less than barack obama's rather than the debate itself. policy -- let's think about this it would be three seconds and give it a grade of an f. again. you have, over the past two >> why are we dealing with this weeks, a man who has done more pain today? >> speaking of pain, let me go to try to start a racial divide to willy. >> i was going to say. in america. >> we have a scenario -- i'm he has made bigoted remarks dead serious. we have a scenario where the new york yankees could end up winning 107, 108 games through against women in the united the year and end up getting states congress, against elijah beaten in the world series cummings, he has time and again because they don't have the pitchers to line up against the done things unspeakable, things astros, the big winners and the indians made themselves real an op-ed said this week even contenders down the stretch. the yankees are a great team but this past weekend in boston proved they're not really lined up to win post season series, gorgeo george wallace wouldn't say. and democrats last night on the maybe they will. but to pick up nobody, no

stage decided their target would be barack obama not donald pitchers in the yankees, i don't trump. if i'm on the stage, i'm saying get it. >> and that was mike barnicle we democrats support universal can tell you that was the health care, republicans are concern at fenway over the against it. we'll figure out how to get weekend, as we watched the there, it's just a debate. yankees give up 19 runs, 10 we have to deal with congress, the courts, the administration. runs, 10 runs. so let's just agree we're on the the yankee's gm was on the phone side of the angels and they're on the side of corporations. but apparently nobody called him >> well, joe -- >> let's talk about donald back, no starting pitching. trump. that's what they should have so the yankees we're the little done last night, and they just don't get the message. >> it was a unique strategy we engine that could. we had the worst day. and the astros got zack greinke, saw unfold last night going after barack obama. they have to be the world series and it opened my eyes. favorites now. i had always thought that is that good playing the coverage of preexisting underdog? >> you're a fraud. conditions was pretty good. i thought taking care of >> disgraceful. all right. we're just getting started this catastrophic illnesses was good. this morning. still ahead we have the other i thought taking care of your kids on your healthcare plan big moments cued up in the until they were 25 or 26 years control room from the debate. of age was pretty good. i liked that. we'll talk about the top take i was wrong.

barack obama is a villain here. aways and what they mean going and the only thing i can forward, and four candidates, conclude after watching them bernie sanders, kamala harris, last night is if hillary clinton cory booker, and michael bennet will be our guests here on and the democrats had given the "morning joe." you're watching "morning joe" same volume of attack, the same we'll be right back. artillery brought to a >> the person enjoying this candidate, as they brought to debate most right now is donald joe biden last night. trump as we pit democrats if they brought that to donald against each other as he's working right now to take away trump in 2016 during debates americans' health care. care there would have been no democratic debate last night, hillary clinton would have been president. instead, i watch all night long in disbelief. this is not just a headache. >> disbelief. >> disbelief as nearly every one this is not just a fever. of them on that stage went after this is not just the flu. joe biden/barack obama. >> barack obama got hammered. it's meningitis b... and you're not there to help. i'm hearing mike talking about while meningitis b is uncommon... protecting pre-existing once symptoms appear, conditions. i'm hearing mike talk about they can progress quickly and can be fatal... letting your kids stay on your sometimes within 24 hours. before you send your teen to college... health care insurance until make sure you help protect them. they're 25 or 26 because some talk to your teen's doctor... about meningitis b vaccination. may not have a job and you want to protect them. i'm hearing about expanding

health care coverage for millions of americans under obamacare. and you know what i'm thinking? i'm thinking it's sad that mike barnicle is leading our show off with a lot of republican talking points. >> it's not republican talking points. >> the republican talking points you gotta start somewhere. i'm a reporter for the new york times. supporting barack obama, it the when, the where bank statements, tax returns, makes me sad. >> see i -- it's out, dozens of copy records of deeds and reports. >> give me a break! what's wrong with you people? 1995 showed that he was bleeding money. you're going up against donald trump, and you're talking about go through it all, understand it all holy sh* defending obamacare as number by number, brick by brick. republican talking points? who is advising you? that's when we realized. that's fraud. >> there's nothing to gain by i built this empire and i did it by myself. going after joe biden who most people think is a nice guy, doing well in the polls, has a right now, congress is working to end surprise medical billing. history with barack obama who everyone likes a lot. that's when patients are hit with medical bills you want to separate yourself in they thought would be covered by insurance. the pack by showing how you but what congress is considering would take on donald trump. would cut money that vulnerabe patients rely on the most. so i don't know where they were last night. also with us, jonathan lemire. that means seniors, children, and americans relying on medicaid would be hurt.

it's already too hard for people to get basic medical care with hospitals closing and a shortage of er doctors. steve ratner, and reverend al tell congress we can end surprise billing without shredding the safety net. sharpton. paid for by physicians for fair coverage. and former chief of staff to the look limu. a civilian buying a new car.ug dccc, adrienne elrod. let's go. limu's right. liberty mutual can save you money by the way, we're going to talk by customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. about this week's back-to-back oh... yeah, i've been a customer for years. debates with four of the huh... candidates, bernie sanders, kamala harris, cory booker and only pay for what you need. michael bennet will be our ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ guests all this morning on "morning joe." >> reverend, here's how it's being cleared by the parents. the times called harris unsteady. booker best in class performance. and the former vice president, he is still old, he is still

most people think a button is just a button. nostalgic and still the front ♪ runner until someone can prove otherwise. that a speaker is just a speaker. mr. biden achieved some of the ♪ or - that the journey can't be the destination. goals that eluded him last most people haven't driven a lincoln. night. "the washington post" declared trump the winner. discover the lincoln approach to craftsmanship at the lincoln summer invitation. also bernie sanders and right now, get 0% apr on all 2019 lincoln vehicles plus no payments for up to 90 days. elizabeth warren. and joe biden, quote, he wasn't only at your lincoln dealer. as bad as last time but wasn't plus no payments for let's cowboy up! as good either. exhilarating speed. the wall street journal, biden's woo! performance grew stronger precision control. throughout the night. woo! maximum reliability. access denied. al, let me bring you in and ask [ repeats ] access denied. you about winners and losesers d if it's not xfinity xfi, it's not good enough. if those latte liberals that you for wifi with super powers, get xfinity xfi. keep talking about missed the forest for the trees and decided and go see, fast & furious presents, hobbs & shaw. to attack barack obama and his august 2.

signature health care plan and his immigration policies instead of going after donald trump. >> well, i certainly think the winner overall the two nights probably was elizabeth warren and probably julian castro. last night as i sat there upfront, i began wondering how many republican commercials they were setting themselves up for by attacking the most popular democrat in the world, barack obama. and how they were showing their if you agree with me go to political desperation that in trying to go after the front joe 30330 and help me in this runner joe biden they would sacrifice trying to throw barack obama in front of the bus, which fight. >> that's the moment that jonathan lemire referred to a does not show real stability and moment ago. joe biden in his closing remarks self-confidence. it shows desperation and i don't getting out the text and he went know who is advising them. i think when you look at the to get the website out. actual debate, though, joe, >> that's what he tried to do, biden was able to defend it sort of reinforced a few

himself. he was steady. he was not great, but he other moments in the night when survived. he seemed off his game. and i think he lives to hold on >> he squared off with julio for now in the front runner. but the shots that some of the castro about border crossings others took hurt them in their and others squared off against base. when you sit down and watch him over the obama record on deportation. >> the fact of the matter is you kamala harris having to defend a judge saying that we're going to should be able to do -- if you cross the border illegally you let 1,000 people out of jail should be able to be sent back, that you let stay in their it's a crime. it's not one that -- unconstitutionally, when you >> thank you, mr. vice hear my friend cory booker being accused of you hired rudy president. secretary castro. giuliani's police guy and did >> it looks like one of us has stop and frisk against blacks in learned the lessons of the past and one of us hasn't. newark, this hurts them in their my plan would fix the broken base. so whereas biden may not have legal immigration system because we have a problem with that. added anything, he subtracted secondly, the only way we're going to guarantee these kinds from their base which is very, very bad in politics. i think it was overall a fair of family separations don't happen in the future we need to repeal the law. night for biden. i think some of the opposition what we need is a politician to have some guts on this issue. hurt because it hit them where they hurt. but this whole suicide mission >> mr. vice president your

of going after barack obama response. >> i have guts enough to say his plan doesn't make sense. smells like desperation. i think it certainly shows that >> vice president biden, i didn't hear your response when they were -- that some of them are just not ready for where the issue came up of they are, and that is where you deportations, i didn't hear can take incoming fire as well whether you tried to stop them or not using your power, as you can shoot fire out. influence in the white house. you and i, joe, have built a did you think it was a good idea? career taking shots at people, >> the president is the guy who but we also know how to take a came up with the idea first time shot without throwing our mama ever of dealing with the dreamers, he put that into law. in front of the bus. >> yeah. that we do. wouldn't want to do that. he talked about a comprehensive plan which he laid before the last night, as i saw some of congress saying that we should these candidates doing that, i find a pathway to citizenship for people. think about the conversations he said we should up the number you and i have, about the fact of people we're able to bring that joe biden what he has going into this country. for him is that there is still a lastly he also pointed out that deep well of support for barack we should go to the source of obama. especially in the black the problem and fix it where community. people were leaving in the first place. >> you want to be president of 97% of democrats overall think the united states, you need to be able to answer the tough barack obama did a great job as questions, i guarantee you if president of the united states. i'm wondering, how does it you're debating donald trump he's not going to let you off impact these candidates that are the hook. did you say the deportations are a good idea or did you go to the

president and say this is a trashing barack obama's signature health care achievement and trashing his immigration policies instead of mistake? which one? >> i was the vice president, not donald trump. how is that going to impact in the president, i keep my recommendations in private. the churches in south carolina and across the deep south? unlike you i expect you would >> it's going to have them join say whatever was said privately with him. the church in repent of their >> you had mayor de blasio political sins. that's what it is. i'm saying this to the playing the role of moderator, candidates, you're forgetting going after joe biden with the how hard he had to fight to get questions of deportations under the affordable care act. the obama administration. those of us with access in the another way of getting at joe civil rights community were on the hill fighting to get biden through president obama. something done no other >> i think that clearly one of the points of tension during the president could do. but as one that ran for obama years with those in the president and debated on the progressive community, including same fox stage, the last thing i me that would meet with the would have done is keep president, was the concern about reminding people that joe biden deportation. but i think that the way the was connected to barack obama who's the most popular in the vice president was able to democratic party. handle it was as good as you i would have tried to sever the could expect. ties with he and obama. i think de blasio tried to come in and score there. why would you remind somebody that he was with something that i think julio castro had the best line saying some of us learned, some of us didn't by

90-something percent of the people watching love. owning that maybe they should make them forget he was with have done more, but he learned obama, don't remind them. from that. >> the first major debate of the i think that clearly there was not some kind of nonquestioning night came between joe biden and kamala harris on their proposals for health care. of the policies of deportation it was the first topic of the night. the former vice president was under obama. when you contrast that with what joined by senator michael bennet is going on now with trump in in defending their health care positions both rallying around terms of putting children in their support of obamacare. cages and taking them from the >> the senator has had several arms of their parents, it's not plans so far. a comparison. there's no talk about the fact i think that's where they should that the plan in ten years will have laid a lot of the blame and cost $3 trillion, you will lose time for the present situation your employer-based insurance. on what is going on now on and to be very blunt and donald trump. rather than to keep trying to straightforward, you can't beat president trump with double-talk question obama as some indirect on this plan. way of going after mr. biden, >> unfortunately, you're just simply inaccurate in what you're which i frankly think does not describing. the reality is that our plan help them politically. >> you know, reverend al is will bring health care to all americans under a medicare for quite on the mark there, i would all system. think. your plan by contrast leaves out an enormous amount of time was almost 10 million americans. spent last night in reflecting upon the past. >> the plan, no matter how you not only about the deportations

cut it, costs $3 trillion. under president obama and all of that stuff. but more time was spent on that, second litt than on the question i think a secondly, it requires middle lot of americans want to know. class taxes to go up not down, where are we going? where do you, each specific and it eliminating candidate want to take us, and employer-based insurance to be cut. explaining in detail, what does and what happens in the meantime? >> the cost of doing nothing is decriminalization mean at the far too expensive. border, and what do open borders mean to you? second, we are now paying $3 trillion a year for health and what about health care for care in america. people at the border? there was very little time spent in 2019 in america, for a on that. democrat to be running for it was all a reflection of past president with a plan that does not cover everyone i think is supposed sins amongst the without excuse. progressives towards the obama >> i believe we should finish administration. i don't think it worked. the job we started with the >> i agree with you, mike. another thing i noticed last affordable care act with a night was when people were giving their opening statements public option that gives there were a lot of candidates everybody in the audience a on the stage focussing on their chance to pick for their family whether they want private or biographies, i did this, this is public insurance. what i did when i was governor, it requires drug companies to be this is what i did when i held negotiated with by medicare and this elected office, instead of it provides competition. that is totally different from saying this is what i'm going to the plan that senator warren and do for you. i think that's a mistake for a lot of individuals, you want to

sanders and harris have proposed introduce yourself, your which would make illegal biography, but we have to focus employer-based health insurance on the future. in this country and massively if we sit here and rehash the past we're not going to get raise taxes on the middle class anywhere. candidates can learn, looking to the tune of $30 trillion as joe biden said. back, rewatching the debate last >> the folks i talked to about night thinking how can i have a more forward thinking set of health insurance say their health insurance isn't working proposals on the stage. for them. if we focus on rehashing some of tens of millions don't have health insurance, tens of the immigration issues -- look, millions more they can barely president obama did receive a make work because of the copays, lot of controversy when he was president on mass deportation. but why are we focussing on deductibl deductibles, premiums out of rehashing that when we really pocket expenses. need to move forward? >> also, like what exactly are there's a mythology that all these people are in love with they trying to reveal about joe biden? what were they trying to their health insurance. accomplish, because it didn't >> my response is obamacare is accomplish anything. reverend al thank you very much. working. >> thank you. the way to build it is to get to >> coming up our first obamacare. presidential democratic candidate of the morning. go back and take back all the during the debate, senator things that trump took away. michael bennet stole the provide a public option, meaning every single person in america spotlight from joe biden and would be able to buy into the

kamala harris to argue that the option if they didn't like their conversation should focus on the issues of today, not 50 years employer plan or if they're on ago. he joins us next on "morning medicaid they'd be in the plan. joe." >> this is a different version of the debate we saw the night before, except it was more high profile because of the person defending book and speaking out was the front runner in the race. last night it was joe biden. kamala harris seems to be going back and forth on her health care plan. we talked to her the morning after the debate in miami. i asked her if she's for your brain is an amazing thing. but as you get older, it naturally begins to change, eliminating private insurance, she said i'm not. causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. where is she inside her plan, the details of it, and what's thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain the truth about what she proposes? >> one of the things we've and actually improves memory. learned in the two debates is the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... the health care is the most emotional debate in america, in jellyfish. nobody is happy with their in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown health care but americans are to improve short-term memory. smart enough to know there are prevagen. healthier brain. better life. alternatives, you have the medicare for all camp, pure medicare for all, you have on

the other end, the biden for second, mend it, don't end it. and then you have a bunch of ♪ people in the middle, of which kamala harris is the most applebee's all you can eat is back. visible, trying to weave their now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. way through it and have some version of medicare for all, but you don't have to give up your private insurance. for the average american it was probably unbelievably confusing. i think at the end of the day, the big winners from last night were warren and sanders because i don't think anybody last night had a break through moment. i think biden did okay. kamala harris was a bit unsteady. michael bennet was great but whether that matters or not we'll find out. for the rest of them, i think it was a lot of this back and forth ( ♪ ) and so on. what scares me, as a centrist only tylenol® rapid release gels democrat, we're in a situation have laser drilled holes. where bernie sanders and they release medicine fast, elizabeth warren really stand for fast pain relief. out of the two nights for having strong positions that no one was tylenol®. able to take down. >> jonathan, joe biden's

argument is let's have a public option. if you like your private insurance, keep it. if not, here's a system in place that can cover you. >> the health care fight is the proxy for the larger struggle within the democratiobama-ism o for fast pain relief. has four levels of defenseremium gasoagainst gunk, wear, corrosion and friction. that helps keep your engine running like new. it's fuel for thought.

let's be very clear about this, when vice president biden was in the united states senate working with segregationist to impose busing, which was the vehicle we would integrate public schools, had i been in the united states senate at that time i would have been on the other side of the aisle, and had those segregationist had their way i would not be a member of the united states senator, cory booker would not have been and barack obama would not have been president. he fails to acknowledge it's wrong to take the position he took at that time. >> when senator harris was attorney general for eight years in california, there were two of the most is ge gagsist

communiti communities. and she didn't do a single thing against them. >> this is the second time we've been debating what people did 50 years ago with busing when our schools are as segregated today as they were 50 years ago. we need a conversation about what's happening now. >> that is democratic senator michael bennet of colorado reminding everyone last night that this is not an election from the 1970s. and senator michael bennet joins us now. good to see you this morning. thanks for being with us. we'll get to that in just a moment. i want to talk about health care because you took up the cause for the anti-medicare for all argument, which we heard the first night, then from joe biden last night and then from you. you said medicare for all is a terrible policy. why do you believe that? >> i believe that because i don't see any point in taking away american's choice to have employer-based health insurance

and to force them to pay $33 trillion in taxes for that privilege. you know, that is roughly 70% of what we collect over the next ten years in revenue without bernie's plan. so it's virtually a doubling of the amount of revenue the federal government is collecting. the democratic base is not for that. i think what we should be for is a public option that finishes the job with the affordable care act and gives families the ability to make a choice for themselves. >> were you surprised -- senator -- >> i understand -- >> were you surprised, senator, more broadly last night as we were discussing and many democrati democrats were saying last night at the general attacks on the legacy of obama, a man with a 97% approval rating among democrats in the country on immigration and the affordablecare act. >> i think the affordable care

act was his signature accomplishment. i was there for the work i know how hard it was to get it done and defend it against mcconnell's efforts to repeal it. now democrats are talking about repealing it instead of building on it, is nonsense to me. there was talk about the gang of eight, i was won of the people who wrote the immigration bill in 2013, president obama supported that work. i think we'd be better off today had we been able to get that bill through the house, and never could. i do think we have to get focussed on the future, we have to get focussed on donald trump, but we need to make sure that our nominee is somebody that can win states like colorado, arizona, like iowa, like maine so that we can win the presidency and the senate majority as well. >> senator -- go ahead. >> i heard you're in maine? >> no. no.

i'm in main street, washington d.c. >> all right. >> so anyway, i'm glad you brought up what you did about busing. and having debates about what happened in '72, '73, '74. because when it comes to the issue of race, we have an arsonist running through the house right now, this week, setting every room on fire. attacking black congressmen, attacking women of color in congress. there is so much to talk about now, this is beyond what george wallace would do publically, yet people are still trying to fight about what happened when abba was releasing "dancing queen" and richard nixon was in the white house. this is insanity, what's going on here? >> you're making an incredible

point, i think. donald trump for a guy that apparently never read a book in his life has perfected this reactionary racist, arsonist, playbook for running this country. that's why i said last night his racism is enough for every single american to vote him out of office. it should be disqualifying. and we, all of us, not just democrats but independents and republicans as well, have got to come together and figure out a way to close over this guy and close over this racism. i was in a shoe shine shop yesterday in detroit and we were having a conversation with the guys that work there about how a guy like trump could possibly be elected. and one of the guys in the shop said, it's always been this way. and that is such a depressing view of where we are. we have made some progress in this country and for trump to be dragging us backward into this cesspool of racism and division,

this is something we all have to stand up against. and i -- and these issues are real. i mean, as you know, i was a school superintendent but in my district i've seen progress. we've doubled the number of kids of color graduating and going to college, cut the drop out rate by 75%. we've increased the academic growth rates of kids in our district so much that a study from stanford came out last week saying the denver kids, it's as if they have 60 additional school days a year compared to the rest of the state. i'm not saying everything is perfect, we still have huge gaps but we have made progress. as a country, man, we have got to continue to make progress here and we have to get trump out. >> let me ask you one other question while we're talking about the debate last night and we're terribly confused by many

attacks that a lot of the candidates had on barack obama. barack obama also got attacked pretty harshly about his immigration policies, which, of course, were nothing like donald trump's immigration policies. but you know this coming from a swing state, one thing democrats can say after barack obama left office was that he brought illegal border crossings to the lowest point in half a century. and he did it in a humane way, despite all that, donald trump still attacked democrats for open borders. shouldn't barack obama's policy on immigration be something that democrats embrace as they try to win states like colorado, nevada, north carolina, wisconsin and michigan? >> well, i certainly think his legacy, supporting the gang of eight bill in 2013, which i wrote with john mccain and six

other senators, that bill had a pathway to citizenship for the 11 million undocumented people in this country. it had the most progressive dream act that had ever passed, the agricultural provisions that i worked on with marco rubio and others were an immigration bill endorsed by the growers and farm workers union and it had $46 billion in border security. we doubled the number of border security agents. we built 350 miles of fence. we were able to see every single inch of the border, using 21st century technology developed in iraq and afghanistan, not the president's ineffective and medieval law. and we had internal security. you know, joe, today, as we stand here, we still don't know because 40% of people that are here that are undocumented came here and overstayed their visas. we still don't know who they

are. that bill fixed that as well. and it was very clear that to get to a place where we were pulling people out of the shadows, giving them a pathway to citizenship, doing the right thing by the dreamers and the american people and people in swing states lake mine would think it was important for us to think we secured the border so we don't repeat the mistakes over the last decade or so. >> senator bennet, given the number of candidates on the stage last night and the night before, it's not very often that an issue critical to the american families gets enough time to be explained in detail that you specific candidates want to do about a decision. one of those is the american public education system. one of the things you put out there was truly shocking and unknown, i think, to a lot of

americans. it has to do with education and incarceration rate in this country. 88% of inmates in american prisons have no high school diploma. correct? >> yes. >> talk about that. and the mix of race and class and the combustibility of that in the american public education system. >> yeah. i mean, i mentioned last night, you know, when you've got a system of education and one group of kids, through no fault of their own, has no access to preschool. kids drop out of high school or drop out of college in elementary school. it's one of the reasons why i thought it was so puzzling that bernie and others have focused on this idea of extinguishing student debt. one of the candidates said i can't imagine anything that would stimulate our economy more than extinguishing the student

debt. i can figure some things that would be more stimulating. i'm standing in the city of detroit where there used to be hundreds of thousands of school kids. there are now 50,000 kids, because of this legacy of segregation, this legacy of housing, discriminatory housing policy, this legacy of discriminatory court rulings that marooned the children in detroit as well as across america. we have to figure out how to give everybody universal preschool, how to shore up our k-12 system so they're not as inequitable as they are so we don't continue to repeat generation after generation after generation the kind of outcomes that we've had for kids of color and kids living in poverty. this should be a focus of the democratic candidates, not something that comes up in the

fourth debate. >> senator mike bennet of colorado, thank you. come visit us in maine. we absolutely love maine. >> yes! >> let's talk about michael bennet. a lot of people thought he had a breakout performance last night. the big question is, will it matter at this point? >> that's exactly right, joe. he had a great performance last night. i thought he had some really outstanding sound bites and moments on that debate stage. the next debate, candidates have to in two ways, achieve 2% in four national polls or early state polls and raise $130,000 donations from unique donors, which means 130,000 people across the country have to give them a donation. it could be $1, $5, it could be $2700. but the qualifications for the third debate have significantly

increased. so, can michael bennet achieve that? i don't know. a lot of people in america want to see a few more moderates, you know, go forward on this debate stage. amy klobuchar has already announced she's made the third debate i with like to see michael bennet move forward. he has made great points and i think joe biden appreciated him being on the stage because he supported obamacare and made rational points regarding health care. >> thank you very very much. still ahead, we'll talk to two other candidates on the debate stage last night, senators cory booker and kamala harris. "morni "morning joe" is coming right back. orning joe" is coming righ back every day, visionaries are creating the future.

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status quo. you do nothing to hold the insurance companies to task. >> any time someone tells you you're going to get something good in ten years, you're going to wonder why it takes ten years. >> joe biden told wealthy donors that nothing fundamentally would change if he were president. >> i don't know what you do in new york, but that's a lot of money. >> mr. vice president tshs looks like one of us has learned the lesson of the past and one of us hasn't. >> i never heard him talk about any of this when he was the secretary. >> he believed that women working outside the home would, quote, create the deterioration of the family. >> my deceased wife worked. my current wife has worked all the way through. there is no middle ground about my plan. everybody is talking about how terrible i am on these issues. barack obama knew exactly who i was. >> mr. vice president, you can't have it both ways. you invoke president obama more

than anybody in this campaign. you can't do it when it's convenient and dodge it when it's not. >> nothing happened the entire time you were mayor. >> we believe in redemption, joe. we believe in redemption in this party. >> i hope you're part of it. i don't know what's happen except you're now running for president. >> so, i understand -- mr. vice president -- >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, august 1st. wow, the summer is flying by. still with us, we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle, jonathan lameer, steve ratner and joining the conversation, national affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc, john heilmann, msnbc contributor kareem jean-pierre and contributing editor for the women's news website bustle elisia menendez. they all went after joe biden

via barack obama. and it really did not feel like the right focus in terms of when you think of what's been happening over the past two weeks, two years with president trump. my god. >> i mean, let's make this pretty simple for the campaign managers who were prepping their candidates and who will prep their candidates for the next campaign. instead of dough baiting about race and bussing from 50 years ago, why don't you talk about what just happen this had past week when donald trump attacked a member of congress? >> elijah cummings. every person on stage should have said something about elijah cummings. >> exactly, or last week, the week before when he attacked women of color and told them to, quote, go back where they came from. >> good lord. >> you had a crowd in north carolina that sound ed like the were chanting out the same

things you might have heard in nuremberg, when hitler talked about gypsies, yous or it was other people that that regime didn't like and they're chanting "send her back, send her back." talk about that. don't talk about arcane debates. donald trump promised universal health care and then said no, i don't support universal health care. he broke that promise. not only did he break that promise, he has been trying to dismantle the affordable care act bit by bit, piece by piece, trying to gut the health care protections afforded to americans when that legislation passed, whether you're talking about pre-existing conditions, whether you're talking about keeping your kids on your health insurance until they're 25, 26.

whether you're talking about being able to use a public option. it's so many different things, jon heilmann that the democrats could have focused on and, instead, they went after the policies of a man who is sitting at 97% approval rating among democrats. barack obama's policies got attacked more last night than donald trump's. i think somebody, somebody lost. >> peculiar piece of political logic. i saw someone point out on twitter that it seemed asinine. you have this uncomfortable thing where if democrats -- democratic candidates want to

try to take down joe biden they end up, in the process, firing at not only biden but obama. the lost plot is the right way to put it. even compared to the first night of debate, this was a joyless, dark affair. not just attacks on barack obama. what happened to the audacity of hope? what happened to the kind of positive visionary messages that barack obama put forth in 2008 and 2012? this was basically a bunch of democrats who walked on stage with their opo books open and unloaded all night long. the first night you had people who were cent rift democrats who were worried that the party was going too far left. last night created a more comprehensive concern, which is that democrats have, as you said, lost the thread but also are not projecting the kind of

uplifting, positive message, vision for the country that we're going to need in addition to attacking donald trump, you have to sketch out something positive. so the last thing i'll say is i think there are two important big headlines, right? for joe biden, this was a binary. did he survive, did he not survive? a bad debate would have been potentially a mortal wound to the campaign. he cleared that bar. >> yes. >> however he exhibited vulnerabilities that should be troubling to his campaign as they stare down the process of looking at bernie sanders and elizabeth warren on stage in september. and then the second thing is, it was the best performance of the night. clearly cory booker's performance, i think, partly because he not only scored points against biden but did that thing that i said most of them did not do, which is he was able to be optimistic, uplifting and made people laugh on a couple of occasions throughout the course of the evening. booker had the night last night that kamala harris had a month ago and probably will see a

pretty appreciable rise in his numbers over the next couple of weeks. >> mike barnacle, at times it did seem to be a grim affair. again, this is not about subsections of health care legislation that will never be passed into law. this is about your vision for america and, more importantly, this is about how you're going to bring people hope. in what seems to be a hopeless time because donald trump. re-elections are nothing more than referendums on the president sitting in the oval office. and yet donald trump basically got away with everything last night because democrats kept firing at themselves. and i understand. i'm not polyannish here. i understand that the debates are about separating policies but attacking barack obama's policy positions more than donald trump's, that's just politically dumb.

as i wrote last night, it's crazy. you, as a democratic candidate on that stage, would do far better with doubters, grass root supporters, rank and file members of the democratic party by focusing your fire on donald trump. >> yeah. it was certainly an odd strategy last night, joe. one of the more interesting aspects, and jon he. lmann just referenced it by using the word vulnerable. everyone knows who donald trump is, kareen, and everyone anxiously knows we're in a vulnerable moment as a country and it would seem to me that people are looking for someone with a little joy here. >> uh-huh. >> who could bring a smile to your face in telling people follow me. here's where we're going into the future. >> yep. >> i didn't see much of that. >> that's exactly right, which is what joe was saying. there was no hope. there was no vision.

where is the movement? where are we taking this country next? i have to say, too, to what you're saying as well, trump is the real problem, not barack obama. again, trump is the real prob m problem, not barack obama. attacking president obama, who is widely popular within the democratic party, how do you win the primary, democratic primary by attacking him? one of the things that harris did really well in the first debate when she attacked biden, she attacked biden, not obama. so, i think that is not good politics. that does not help the party. and i think there's conversations that could be had about policies of four years ago, of when obama was the president and you could talk about expanding it, building from it, even replacing some of it. but don't do it trashing barack obama. it just makes no sense at all. >> the democrats' choice to go after barack obama last night who are than donald trump will

come in starker relief this evening as donald trump returns to the rally stage. he will be in cincinnati for what will be his first rally since the one in north carolina a month ago, which the send her back chants broke out and unnerved not only the nation but those in the republican party. tonight will be a test for the president, the crowd, republicans to see what happens next. if these chants begin. if they do, what does he do to stop them, does he encourage them? and weighing in on the debate the last couple of days. there's a chance of ugliness at this rally and that's something that democrats missed a chance to highlight. elisia, where do you think democrats fell short yesterday in terms of going after the president but moreover, a second part, we keep saying some of the big winners last night were those the night before. bernie sanders, elizabeth warren. do you think joe biden did enough last night to reassure progressives that if he -- that he would be able to carry their mantle toward the nominee?

would he do enough to energize the left wing of the party? >> i don't know what enough would be to answer that question. i do think the contours of last night's debate were very different than the first night. the first night it felt like the entire debate was framed around the progressive policies of warren and sanders with moderates' argument basically coming to these are fairy tales that never happen. last night you saw more of a spectrum of ideas and remember, you know, i take everyone's point about joy, about vision, about candidates needing to be able to express all of that. but there's also another test, which is are any of these candidates tough enough to go toe to toe with donald trump in a general election, in a general election debate? that's why you see some of them trying out these attacks, showing they can be the type of person who can land those punches, whether or not they succeeded is a different question. also think second tier democratic candidates know this is a make or break moment for

them. they watched senator harris in that first debate, what she was able to do, how that repositioned her in the race more broadly. they were looking for that moment, too, especially as time was ticking down. a lot of them haven't crossed the fund-raising threshold they need to get on stage at that next debate. they were facing a different set of obstacles. >> elisia, let me ask you, did you see anybody last night or the night before that you think is tough enough to take on donald trump on the debate stage and throughout the general campaign? >> i think that's still an open question. >> yeah. >> unclear. i think it was incumbent upon vice president biden to make it clear. hair sbis others had a shakier night. it's different when you're the one receiving the critiques and need to answer them. it's telling that she was receiving critiques from the

more moderate elements of the candidates, from the more progressive. the other second tier candidates see her as the most >> yeah. >> no one walked away fully damaged but no one walked away in a position where they can claim they are clearly the front-runner. >> it's interesting. i think biden's numbers will either hold or get better out of this. maybe perhaps a lot of it was subconscious. people were taking in, watching the whole spectacle. it's the same thing that happened when the whole hugging thing with biden. you know, people who were on attack against joe biden did not take into consideration that he is widely known as a very good man, who has served for decades for the united states of america, who has kept sort of himself grounded and his family grounded through very difficult times. a lot of people know his story.

they know his legacy. they know his service and they know him to be a good man. so, to watch these people picking away at him, trying to find little crevices of areas where he might have weaknesses when the house is burning down. you have trump to go after. i think it will bode well for biden in the long run. >> first of all, no democratic candidate owes joe biden anything. what they do, they're in the race. they owe themselves something. they owe their campaign something. they owe their supporters something. and if they want to do well, if they want to move forward, they need to be seen as a candidate taking it to donald trump and not the candidate taking it to barack obama or even joe biden on barack obama's policies. barack obama, let me say again, 97% approval rating in the democratic party. doesn't make a lot of sense to go after him. one thing we have seen, though,

steve ratner, is that joe biden has shown a resilience in the polls and has surprised me several times already early this election cycle. most people thought, as did i, that joe biden's best day in the 2020 campaign would be his first. and then we actually saw after he jumped in the race his numbers sky rocketing. many people thought, including me, after that first debate, that joe biden's numbers would drop precipitously and also stay low. what we have seen over the past several weeks since miami, joe biden's numbers have come back up. same thing after the hugging dust-up that mika was talking about. expected his numbers to go down. they didn't. in fact, they went up among democrats in several polls. it seems that there is a political resilience in joe

biden and perhaps that's why holding serve, as i say he did last night, maybe all he needs to do through these democratic debate. >> i think that's exactly the point, joe. what i was thinking about before during the previous comments. yes, as you said, joe biden had a tough debate the first time, poll numbers went down. surprisingly to some of us, they came right back up. if you were one of those other nine candidates going into that dough bait last night, you look at that and say the only way i can win is if biden loses, in effect. we have to take down biden. i think that's what led to the distasteful pieces of the debate where to get to biden, they had to go through obama. i don't think they were really attacking obama. they like him as much as we do, but they were using obama's proxy to get to biden and on the whole question of deportations, where were you on these deportations and de blasio

weighing in on it. and you have to keep in mind why this debate was almost nasty in a way and people picking on each other so much is because for most of these candidates that may be the last time the american public sees them on a debate stage unless they break through. you need 130,000 unique donors and 2% of the polls to get on that december debate stage. jonathan and i were doing the math during the break, and it looks like fewer than ten may make that. this was a make or break moment for them and honestly, i didn't see most of them break through. part of also why biden is doing reasonably well is because we're looking at elizabeth warren, bernie sanders, who had very good nights the last night or between them the front-runner, if you add their polls together and biden at the moment has emerged as the centrist alternative.

for some even the michael bennets of the world have not been able to break through. for a lot of people biden may be the best choice we have to take on trump. >> elisia menendez, thank you very much. big night for our next guest. "new york times" described cory booker's performance as, quote, best in class. the new jersey democrat joins us next on "morning joe." s us next on "morning joe." choosing my car insurance was the easiest decision ever. i switched to geico and saved hundreds. that's a win. but it's not the only reason i switched. geico's a company i can trust, with over 75 years of great savings and service. ♪ now that's a win-win. switch to geico.

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the fact is that bills that the president -- excuse me, that the future president here, that the senator is talking about. >> first of all, i'm grateful that he endorsed my presidency already. >> that was senator cory booker, responding to joe biden's slip of the tongue last night. and democratic senator cory booker of new jersey joins us

now. congratulations on a good performance last night and thanks for being on this morning. >> thank you for having me, mika. good morning to you. >> so "the new york times" said you were the best in class. >> best in class. >> that is something -- >> not bad. >> -- no one said about me, especially during my days in school. how does that feel this morning? how do you think the debate went? >> well, it's a very hard format, as you know, two nights, 20 people, ten on a stage. but, look, i am hopeful that i'm emerging out of thrk as i heard you all say earlier, by the time we get to september, it will be a smaller debate stage. we're very far out. i'm introducing myself and felt like it was a great opportunity to show my heart as well as my head. i'm hopeful that there's still a long time to go that we'll get a chance to have more people to understand what i'm about. >> so, there were many

criticisms of the debate last night, democratic debate about the attacks against barack obama's policies. i certainly talked about it on twitter last night some, as did a lot of other trts. just cu democrats. do you think it made sense for so many on the stage to be attacking the affordable care act and your attacks against his immigration policy? >> well, look, at the end of the day, you're right, president obama has been the statesman of our party and has the highest approval ratings, but i don't think any administration, as you and i both know have been in public life, nothing is without criticism. there's substantive issues to discuss. our immigration system is savagely broken. so many things are happening that just aren't common sense. during the obama administration, there were a lot of deportations. having a substantive conversation about that isn't distracting from a great

administration before. it's trying to give a picture of what we want in the future. i try to go back time and time again last night on multiple occasions, for us to keep our eyes on the prize, which is unifying as a party and being able to keep donald trump, and do it in a way that doesn't further divide this country. the way to beat donald trump is not just by trying to say hey, we're trying to beat republicans. i think the democratic party has to be about uniting americans and we can't just talk about what we're against. we have to give a telling vision that can speak to independents and republicans themselves. immigration is that area. you are fans of michael bennet. so am i. he showed in gang of eight there's a way. there's a lot of bipartisan space on this. the problem is we have a president in office engaging in such moral vandalism at the border. >> yes. >> doing things without common sense and make us less safe as a country. that's what i'm trying to get

everybody to refocus on. what we have right now is so objectionable, so unnecessary. there's a lot of room for us to appeal to moderates, independents and frankly republicans on immigration and other issues. >> senator, by the way, just a clarification, we've also been fans of your performances of late, think your running a very good, very disciplined, very tough campaign. wanted to ask you, though, more specifically on immigration, just so you get a chance to put it out there. what are your views on barack obama's immigration policy, on his deportation policy? i know there are a lot of swing state senators that love talking about how illegal immigration in the united states dropped to 50-year lows under barack obama and it skyrocketed under donald trump. i think that would be something that democrats would want to get out there in the 2020 race against donald trump.

what do you think? >> well, look, i was a mayor during that time, as you know, and actually had to run stuff and try to keep a the 287-g pol that we had to put out an announcement that, hey, my local law enforcement officials should not be involved, should not be federalized to help with immigration. and the reason why, and i want folks to know this, it's for safety. right now we're seeing cooperation in cities all across america, between immigrant communities and law enforcement just being butchered. i sat with a 14-year-old talking about her friend that was assaulted, not wanting to call authorities because they were worried that their undocumented parents might have to come in and they would be deported. i have situations now in the city in which i live where there are folks who don't cooperate with the police to report crimes because they're afraid, again, of being deported. we have to have sensible policies that affirm our shared

values safety and security have to be paramount. some of the things happening in the obama administration threaten to tear apart families, american spouse, american children. that doesn't make us stronger. that doesn't make us better. we need to be smart about how we do immigration, keep safety and security center, human rights and what's best for our economy and for our american family. >> it's jon heilmann here. i want to ask you about crime and the exchanges you had with vice president boyden on that subject. you basically are saying, hey, that the vice president has not taken full responsibility for the policies embodied by the 1994 crime bill and, more importantly, for the consequences of it. this is not a thing, from your point of view, that as the vice

president says, that's a long time ago. you made the point on stage last night the impact of this on communities of color is still very intense right now. my question for you today, my question for you is, do you feel like you have satisfaction on that question or there is still more to litigate between you and joe biden over the question of criminal justice and its impact on the after raining american community across crit? >> hey, jon, i'm glad for the wind-up in that question. i'm not looking to sucker punch the vice president. i'm not a hard guy to figure out. if you know me, you know heck since i was in college, i was writing college articles about this issue of mass incarceration. especially then as a young, black managers i was seeing stunning things happen, like folks getting locked up in communities like newark for doing things that people in college were doing openly and without fear whatsoever. we have a savagely broken criminal justice system that, as you said, that's not 20, 30 years ago. people in jail right now, unjustly, for the kinds of laws

that the vice president has bragged about having his name on, and obviously leading. so, look, if the vice president ends up being our nominee, especially communities like detroit where i am, he is going to have to own up to what he did then. and he did it with the iraq war last night. he said i made a mistake, and was just very direct about that. these are the kinds of things with three-strike laws, incredibly long sentences, the time i was in law school and city of mayor in newark as our infrastructure was crumbling, we were building a new jail or system every five days. overwhelmingly, the poor, addicted, mentally ill and black and brown people. so, no, i don't think he has had the courage to look the american public in the eye and say this was wildly wrong, it cost us billions of dollars. it chewed up human potential. if you want to appeal to

live or communities like this in detroit, in a state where we lost by not having the kind of african-american turnout we should have had, god, we have to have leaders that can stand up and speak to the past, the problem of mass incarceration now and bold vision in terms of things like incarceration. >> senator, it's jonathan lamira. last night there was discussion about the vice president and his record, reflected as his status as the front-runner. his position in the polls are so strong on the backs of support of african-american voters. why, sir, do you think you have not caught on with african-american voters? >> i spent my career coming up -- i'm the only person, i think, in the senate, in this race who spent the majority supporting black communities and i'm very proud of that. joe biden has 99% name recognition. when i started this race, i had

about 50% name recognition. barack obama was trailing hillary clinton amongst african-american voters until, really, he beat her in iowa. so, we are still very far out. as a former football player in the pac-10, this is not even preseason yet. we're still in august double days right now. this is really early in the race. for those folks who have watched past races, we've never had a president from our party, someone go on and win the presidency that was leading the polls this far out. the only people we've had to go on and win the presidency who led this far out, not to win the presidency, frankly to be nominated for the presidency were people who didn't win like mondale, gore, secretary clinton, even though she won the popular vote. i'm not worried about the polls right now. what i'm worried about is what often doesn't get talked about, but des moines registrar seems

to notice, elizabeth warren, two of the best campaigns that have organizations on the ground. i'm in the top three in endorsements in those early states like iowa and new hampshire. we're doing exceptionally well in the things that matter, that enabled john kerry, polling at 4% to win iowa because of the organizations. on the metrics that matter this far out we're doing exceedingly well and i'm hoping after performances like last night, one of the top candidates for the second debate in a row. people say hey, who is that guy? i hope more people go to cory booker.com and help us stay on the platform and get to next near when the voting happens in a position to strike and win in iowa. >> corybooker.com. senator cory booker, thank you so much. come back. great to have you on. coming up, still two more democratic white house hopefuls to talk to this morning.

senator bernie sanders will be our guest. but first, senator kamala harris will join the conversation. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. let me ask you something. can the past help you write the future? can you feel calm in the eye of a storm? can you do more with less? can you raise the bar while reducing your footprint? for our 100 years we've been answering the questions of today to meet the energy needs of tomorrow.

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click, call, or visit a store today. if they don't impeach him, it's easier to say, you see? the democrats didn't go after me on impeachment. do you know why? i didn't do anything wrong. these folks always investigate me, always go after me. when it came down to it, they didn't go after me there, because i didn't do anything wrong. conversely, if mitch mcconnell is the one who lets him off the hook, we'll be able to say, sure, but his friend, mitch mcconnell, let him off the hook. >> moscow. >> your term has made it to the big stage, joe. >> if the term fits, wear it. >> it fits too well. it's frightening. >> tightly. it's one of those russian hats. >> lot of russian ties. former u.s. senator now and nbc news and msnbc political analyst joins us, claire

mccaskill. good to have claire on this morning. >> claire, give us your summary of the debate last night. >> i thought it was really hard to watch. it was just a mess. an awful lot of details that voters won't slow down to observe. who attacks de bcht lasio at this point? what was that? this back and forth of attacking everyone, i think it's time to get this down to one stage. i'm ready. and, you know, i eat this stuff for breakfast. i thought overall joe did well. i think he seemed stronger. i think he took incoming better than he certainly did last time. i don't think it changed much. i don't really think the polling will change much at all. and attacking obama administration is just nutty. >> listen, i think attacking the

obama administration is nutty. i'll say it again. 97% of democrats like him. 82% of americans support obamacare, think it's a great idea. you were really playing in the margins when you're bashing anybody for supporting obamacare. but it's the same thing with -- like you said, attacking everybody. even attacking kamala harris because she was a tough on crime prosecutor. that's the sort of thing democrats will want in the general election. people have got to look past their noses. and just on a more general level, claire, it was a joyous -- joyless affair. >> right. >> and people talking about subsection 3 of bernie sanders -- i mean, talk about your vision, your big, sweeping vision for america. where are you going to take america after you wrestle the

white house from donald trump? how will the next four years look better than the bleak four years that preceded it? >> i don't think -- i think the problem, joe, is that you have so many candidates trying to reach the level they need to be to get the next debate. this is about all these candidates trying to survive. they saw what happened when kamala harris went after joe biden in the last debate. they all thought the way for me to get to 2% -- this is what we're talking about here. the way for me to get to 2.5% is to attack someone. that's what's going to make me stand out. this need to try to pull yourself up from 1% or 2% is creating the circular firing squad that nobody wants to watch. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> speaking of u.s. senator kamala harris, she joins us now. candidate for president. kamala, great to have you on this morning. >> thanks for being on kamala. >> good morning. >> we've been a bunch of old

dudes, smoking cigarettes, asking why people can't hit 102-mile-an-hour fastballs under their chin. so, go ahead. tell us how it was last night. >> how did it go? >> how do you think the debate went? >> it was great. it was great. you know, joe, i have to agree -- but i have to agree with you, it was quite joyless. >> yeah. >> i mean, listen. i mean, look, this is just part of the process, right? and the reality of the process is that these debates take place because of the number of people that are in the race. you know, it's a wide stage and there's not a lot of time to talk about very important issues. and, you know, so you see what you see. >> so do you think that when the next debate comes along and we're down to maybe seven, eight, nine candidates, do you think the -- just the entire atmosphere around the debate

itself may change considerably? >> i hope so. you know, listen, the bottom line -- and i think you guys have said it well. and people on the stage said it last night. the bottom line is that this is an election that is going to be about which of the democrats are going to make the most persuasive case about why we need a new president and why the current occupant of the white house should go. and i hope we really do start to focus more on what will be the differences between who we are and the current occupant of the white house and then give the american people, you know, clear options in terms of where people stand on policy, where we stand on what should be the standing of the united states. what should be our mission, what should be our future. what should be the vision of our future. you know, there's so much about this campaign and this election that i believe is going to be a statement about who we are as a nation and, as i said last night, i strongly believe we are better than this. so i hope we can get to that

point of having a real conversation about that, because there's so much at stake right now. and, you know, i'm traveling around the country, spending time in iowa, south carolina, new hampshire and nevada to start. and when people show up at these events and these town halls, they could be doing so many other things. they have big lives. and they come because they are truly invested in the future of our country and they want to have an honest, candid, real conversation about the issues. and that's where we've got to go. my agenda is about what wakes people up at 3:00 in the morning. and that's going to be about their health care. can they get a job, keep a job? can they pay the bills by the end of the month? these are the things that american people hear about. get to a more focused conversation about what our best plan is for that. >> a lot of us arm chair politicians last night and this morning were talking about how democrats were attacking barack obama too much. 97% of approval rating of the democratic party, affordable care act, supported by 82%, 83%

of democrats. >> yeah. >> i asked cory booker about his criticisms of barack obama's immigration policies. i'll ask you. were you criticizing barack obama's affordable care act last night? do you think it was too conservative? and should democrats be more focused on mending the affordable care act and also talking about how donald trump's trying to destroy it? >> let me unpack your question. first of all, barack obama was an extraordinary president and probably one of the best presidents in our lifetimes. what he accomplished to get the affordable care act to come into being was extraordinary. decades of presidents have tried to reform the health care system of america and barack obama actually did it. in his own words he has said it was a starter house. he he has said medicare for all is a good idea.

i talk about my medicare for all plan, it is about building on the success of what president obama achieved, and, you know, when we look at it, there is still work to be done. my medicare for all plan is about saying let's make sure cost is not a barrier to people's access to health care. let's make sure people have an option, private plan if that's what they want. so many people gave me feedback and said i want to know that i also can have a private plan option under your medicare for all system, which is why i came up with our own vision of what it should look like, instead of just, you know, accepting the proposals that exist. >> well, senator harris, joe biden went after your plan. he said it's changed a few times. then he talked about the massive cost of your plan. and that it's simply not feasible, especially given the cost. things will happen that will end up being much more expensive for the very voters who really want

health care coverage. are you worried that perhaps your plan is not going to get the broad support it needs so that you can appeal to people who might be disgusted with trump but don't want something so extreme that they're not comfortable with it? >> you know, mika, i'll tell you, vice president biden and i have a difference of opinion on this. the current -- the status quo is not working. in america today, 30 million people are without access to health care. when you look at the plan that the vice president is offering, as many as 10 million people will be without coverage. that's just not tenable. when i'm traveling this country, the number one issue that people talk about is health care. and it is one of the number one issues that keep them up at night. and it's a very personal issue. people want to know that they have the ability to have options when they go to a hospital, when they go to a doctor. my plan is about saying when you walk in that doctor's office the

first thing you do, you don't have to put down your credit card. you put down your medicare card. my plan is about saying enough. we're going to get rid of the deductibles, co-pays. the insurance companies have been jacking those up for years. we're going to take that profit out of the process. i'm going to allow private insurers to be part of my medicare system but they have to play by our rules and that means addressing the fact that the top eight insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies last year profited $72 billion on the backs of american families. that's just not right. and we have to bring the insurance companies under control. and under my plan, we'll do that. but also giving american people the option to have a private plan or a public plan. >> so, sticking with health care, steve rattner wants to jump in. steve? >> senator, just to follow up -- >> hi, steve. >> hi. how are you? just to follow up on what mika was saying, under bernie sanders' own accounting, medicare for all would cost $3

trillion a year. that point was made by joe biden a couple of times and michael bennet pointed out 70% of our total tax revenues and will have to be paid for somehow. that's fact one. fact two is even your plan would eliminate private insurance at the end of ten years. so the question is, are the american people going, as much as we want better health care, as much as we need to improve the aca, we all agree on that. are the american people going to vote, the majority of them, for a democratic candidate when it comes to a $3 trillion price tag and eventual elimination of private insurance? >> my plan doesn't eliminate private insurance. it actually allows private insurers to compete in my medicare for all system. they have to be certified. they have to comply by the rules, such as bringing down costs, such as stopping the plans that tell people where tho see their doctor, giving them more choice and bringing down cost. the private insurers are part of my plan. in terms of the overall cost,

steve, right now we're spending $3 trillion a year on health care in america. over the next ten years, it's estimated we'll spend $6 trillion. the cost of doing nothing is far more expensive, and the bottom line is that people in america today, millions of people, are without access to health care. we have to fix this system. we have to agree. access to health care should be a right and not a privilege of just those who can afford it. >> hi, senator. you gave a great, impassioned speech about impeachment. if you were in front of nancy pelosi, what would you say to her toward moving toward impeachment inquiries. >> i'm not trying to move nancy. i think nancy is very smart, and i would never tell her what to do. my position is that, you know, having read the mueller report,

seeing that there are clearly at least ten very specific acts of obstruction of justice that were not indicted simply because there's a department of justice memo that says a sitting president cannot be indicted, tells me -- and if you read the report, but also if you read the memo from the department of justice, you'll see that it makes explicit that although the department of justice may not act, there is room and a place for congress to act. and so my position is that congress should act because there should be accountability and consequence. the beauty of our system of democracy is that we designed it in such a way that there would be checks and balances. that there would be no branch of government that has excessive power and certainly no branch of government that can abuse their power. and so if this case, specifically, where there has been clear acts of obstruction of justice, congress must act to ensure there will be those checks and balances. so i do support proceeding with

a process toward impeachment because, listen, i've seen people go to prison for far less than the evidence we have right now in terms of this president. >> senator harris, first of all, you have a great laugh. i wish i heard it more. but secondly, i want to talk to you this morning not as an old newspaper columnist but as a voter. as a citizen of a country that i love very much. my wife and i have a bunch of kids. we've had kids treated for cancer. we have a special needs daughter. and we have grandchildren. and for the first time in my life, i am worried about my grandchildren. i'm worried about the changing culture of this country in terms of what the president is doing to divide us, continually, every day, and i want to know from you if you became president of the united states, what can you do to help alleviate my worry about

my grandchildren growing up in this great country? >> yeah. so, mike, what you are expressing with such candor, what i'm hearing around the country. people are really worried. i was recently doing -- i was with a group of people in iowa and it was right after the president made the comments about members of congress and telling them to go back where they came from. and it was my time to speak after a woman spoke who talked about the effect that the president's words had on her children. and it made me so mad. because we cannot have a president of the united states who consistently makes statements to your point that are about dividing us instead of recognizing that we have so much more in common than what separates us. and words that are actually scaring children. so i'll tell you, and i promise

you this. i promise you this. when i have that microphone as the president of the united states, i will always use it in a way that is about lifting people up and certainly not about beating them down. the president of the united states has such an incredible power in that microphone she holds. and it is the power to inform our country about perspective, about who we are and how we think about issues through the lens of who we've always been. we are so much better than what we have seen out of this president. he has a fragile ego. he takes things to the lowest common denominator, and, frankly, what we see is someone who does not understand that a sign of strength is not who you'd beat down and marginalize. it's who you'd lift up. this president doesn't get that. i do. >> senator kamala harris, it's always great to have you on the show. thank you so much, and congratulations. >> thank you.

coming up -- he wasn't on the stage last night, but senator bernie sanders' policies and proposals were still brought up by some of the candidates during night two of the second debate. ahead on "morning joe." you try hard, you eat right... mostly. you make time... when you can. but sometimes life gets in the way, and that stubborn fat just won't go away.

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in 2019 in america, for a democrat to be running for president with a plan that does not cover everyone, i think is without excuse. >> vice president biden, i didn't hear your response when the issue came up with all those deportations. you were vice president of the united states. >> it looks like one of us has learned the lessons of the past, and one of us hasn't. >> you can't have it both ways. you invoke president obama more than anyone in this campaign. you can't do it when it's convenient and dodge it when it's not. >> so apparently barack obama is

running for a third term. >> got to be a surprise for him. got to be a surprise. barack obama is like, what, wait? >> and democrats are out in force to stop him. several contenders attacked the president's record last night vis-a-vis joe biden. while donald trump watches happily from the white house. former attorney general under obama, eric holder tweeted this. to my fellow democrats, bewary of attacking the obama record. build on it. expand it. but there is little to be gained for you or the party by attacking a very successful and still popular democratic president. to that point -- >> but didn't you -- hold it, though. barack obama, though, you got to think these campaign managers said, hey, attack barack obama and obamacare and attack barack obama. make him seem more heartless than donald trump on immigration. like, really, i mean, i'm sure

polls will show that he's not that popular, right, with democrats anymore? >> right, to that point, a cnn poll last year showed 97% of democrats -- 97% had a favorable opinion -- >> oh, favorable opinion? okay. >> and last year, 82% of democrats supported his signature health care law. >> oh, they support -- oh, so you're saying 97% of democrats -- >> yeah. >> -- support barack obama? >> obama. correct. >> and 82% of democrats support obamacare? >> obamacare, yeah. >> okay, so, well, i'm wondering why people who want votes from democrats spent all last night trashing barack obama saying support of barack obama's signature plan, the affordable care act, the greatest step forward toward universal health care in the history of the american republic, i'm wondering why they were trashing that and

the defense of that is republican talking points. it is insanity, my friends. >> especially since overall support of obamacare, remember this, it's hard to forget -- >> it was a year ago, though. >> it was a year ago. >> helped drive democrats to a record midterm victory. >> talking at you all the time. it's -- >> this was too easy for -- >> willie geist, it's kind of -- i'm so confused. i'm so confused. you have barack obama -- by the way, for the record, the most popular democrat alive, the first democrat since franklin delano roosevelt did it in 1932 and 1936 and '40 and '44 to win with a majority of the votes. obama, the first to do that. and you have people trashing

obamacare and the sport of it is republican talking points. and then they're trashing his immigration policies which donald trump and the republicans attacked and used to elect donald trump as being too conservative. this was sort of -- we were sort of in a never, neverland last night in this debate. and i've just got to -- just judging from what i've seen and heard since that debate, a lot of democrats that are pretty pissed off and if you can get my vote by trashing barack obama's legacy, you got another thing coming. >> must have been four-dimensional cherks flying that 3% that don't like barack obama somehow. it was extraordinary. and the support as you pointed out for the affordable care act itself is still at something like 83% or 84%. so the president obama's popular. his policy is popular. but they were getting at joe biden. they knew this man despite what

happened in the last debate when he took a hit and kamala harris rose in the poll, things settled out and he has a commanding lead. the only way in, the only way to climb is to go at joe biden. they climbed pretty hard last night and climbed up to president obama. and that's not sitting well, i don't think this morning, with i with a lot of democrats. the other side is they have to do something, right? he's not above criticism, joe biden. but you have to be careful how you do it so you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater and go after the president he served under for eight years. >> eight years. >> mike barnicle, you have to attack donald trump. the lunacy of this, this exercise last night was that donald trump's policy positions were attacked less than barack obama's policies. i mean, let's think about this again. you have over the past two weeks a man who has done more to try

to start a racial divide in america. he has made bigoted remarks against women of color in the united states congress, bigoted remarks against elijah cummings. he has time and time again done things that were unspeakable, said things as "the new york times" op-ed described that even george wallace wouldn't say and yet in that same week, democrats on the stage last night, mike, decided their target should be barack obama instead of donald trump. if i'm up on that stage, i'm saying, okay, here's the deal. we democrats support universal health care. republicans are against it. okay. great. we'll figure out how to get there because it's just a debate. we're going to have to deal with congress. we'll have to deal with the courts. we'll have to deal with administration. so let's just agree, we're on the side of the angels and they are on the side of corporations. >> joe -- >> let's talk about donald

trump. that's what they should have done last night and they just don't get the message. >> joe, it was a pretty unique strategy that we saw unfold last night going after barack obama. and it certainly opened my eyes. i had always thought that coverage of pre-existing conditions was pretty good. i always thought that taking care of catastrophic illnesses was pretty good. i always thought that taking care of your kids and your health care plan, until they were 25 or 26 years of age, that was really good. i liked all of that. whoa is me. i was wrong. barack obama is a villain here. and the only thing i can conclude after watching them last night that is if hillary clinton and the democrats had given the same volume of attack, the same artillery brought to a candidate as they brought to joe biden last night, if they had brought that to donald trump in 2016 during debates, they would have been no democratic debate last night. hillary clinton would have been

president. but instead, i watched all night long in disbelief, in disbelief as nearly every one of them on that stage went after joe biden/barack obama. insanity. >> barack obama got hammered. and, mika, i'm hearing mike barnicle talking about protecting pre-existing conditions. i'm hearing mike barnicle talking about letting your kids stay on your health care insurance until they're 25 or 26 because some may not have a job and you want to protect them. i'm hearing about expanding health care coverage for millions and millions of americans under obamacare. you know what i'm thinking? i'm thinking it's sad that mike barnicle is leading our show off with a lot of republican talking points. >> no, it's not republican talking points. >> the republican talking points supporting barack obama. it makes me sad. >> see, i -- >> give me a break. what's wrong with you people?

you're going up against donald trump and you are talking about defending obamacare? republican talking points? who is advising you? >> because there's nothing to gain by going after joe biden who most people think is a nice guy and is doing well in the polls and has a history with barack obama who everyone likes a lot. you know, you want to separate yourself from the pack by showing how you'd take on donald trump. i don't know where they were last night. but also with us, white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst john rattner, host of "politics nation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. >> this guy writes republican talking points. >> and adrianne elrod. >> here's how the performance is being scored by the major

papers. biden cleared a low bar but was not particularly fluent. the times called harris unsteady. booker best in clasper formance. and more on the former vice president. he is still old. still nostalgic and still the front-runner until someone can prove otherwise. far from perfect and rarely exactly steady. biden achieved some of the goals that alluded him last time. "the washington post" declared the winner as trump. the debater. also bernie sanders and elizabeth warren, even though they weren't on the stage. the losers, kamala harris. she was at times halting. and joe biden, quote, he wasn't as bad as last time, but he wasn't good either. and this from "the wall street journal." biden's performance which grew stronger throughout the night may help silence some questions about his viability as a potential nominee and a key foil of mr. trump. al, let me bring you in and ask you about winners and losers and

if those latte liberals that you keep talking about missed the forest through the trees and decided to attack barack obama and his signature health care plan and his immigration policies instead of going after donald trump. >> well, i certainly think the winner overall the two nights was elizabeth warren and probably julian castro. last night, though, as i sat there up front, i began wondering how many republican commercials they were setting themselves up for by attacking the most popular democrat in the world, barack obama. and how they were showing their political desperation that in trying to go after the front-runner joe biden, they would even sacrifice trying to throw barack obama in front of the bus which does not show real

stability and self-confidence. it really shows desperation. and i don't know who is advising them. i think when you look at the actual debate, though, joe, biden was able to defend himself. he was steady. he was not great, but he survived, and i think he lives to hold on for now being a front-runner. but the shots that some of the others took hurt them in their base. when you sit and watch kamala harris having to defend a judge saying that we're going to let a thousand people out of jail that you let stay in there unconstitutionally, when you hear my friend cory booker being accused of, you hired rudy giuliani's police guy and did stop and frisk against blacks, this hurts them in their base. so whereas biden may not have added anything, he subtracted from their base which is very,

very, very bad in politics. so i think it was, overall, a fair night for biden. i think some of the opposition hurt because it hit them where they hurt. but this whole suicide mission of going after barack obama smells like desperation. >> up next, we'll show you exactly how the health care debate pitted democrats against each other. plus, steve rattner breaks down the three different corners where the party finds itself on that critical issue. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. i used to book my hotel room on those travel sites but there was always a catch. like somehow you wind up getting less. but now that i book at hilton.com, and i get all these great perks. i got to select my room from the floor plan... very nice... i know, i'm good at picking stuff. free wi-fi... laptop by the pool is a bold choice... and the price match guarantee. how do you know all of this? are you like some magical hilton fairy?

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it was the first topic of the night as it was two nights ago as well. the former vice president then was joined by senator michael bennet in defending their health care positions, both rallying around their support of obamacare. >> the senator has had several plans so far. no talk about the fact that the plan in ten years will cost $3 trillion. you will lose your employer-based insurance and to be very blunt and to be very straightforward, you can't beat president trump with double talk on this plan. >> unfortunately, vice president biden, you're simply inaccurate in what you're describing. the reality is our plan will bring health care to all americans under a medicare for all system. your plan, by contrast, leaves out almost 10 million americans. >> the plan, no matter how you cut it, costs $3 trillion. secondly, it will require middle class taxes to go up, not down. thirdly it will eliminate employer-based insurance. and fourthly, what happens in

the meantime? >> fircht st of all, the cost o doing nothing is far too expensive. second, we are now paying $3 trillion a year for health care in america. in 2019 in america, for a democrat to be running for president with a plan that does not cover everyone, i think is without excuse. >> i believe we should finish the job we started with the affordable care act with a public option that gives everybody in this audience the chance to pick for their family whether they want private insurance or public insurance. it requires the drug companies to be negotiated with by medicare, and it provides competition. that is totally different from the plan that senator warren and senator sanders and senator harris have proposed, which would make illegal employer-based health insurance in this country and massively raise taxes on the middle class to the tune of $30 trillion.

as joe biden said. >> the folks i talk to about health insurance say that their health insurance isn't working for them. there's tens of millions of americans who don't have health insurance. tens of millions more who have health insurance they can barely make work because of the co-pays, the deductibles, the premiums, the out-of-pocket expenses. there's this mythology that somehow all these folks are in love with their insurance in america. what i hear from union members and from hardworking middle class people is they wish they had better insurance. >> my response is, obamacare is working. the way to build this and get to it immediately is to build on obamacare. go back and do -- take back all the things that trump took away. provide a public option, meaning every single person in america would be able to buy into that option if they didn't like their employer plan or if they're on medicaid, they'd automatically be in the plan. >> steve rattner, this is a different version of the debate we saw the night before except more high-profile because the

person defending obamacare and the person speaking out against the elimination of private insurance was the front-runner in the race. two nights ago it was delaney and bullock. last night it was biden. kamala harris seems to be going back and forth on her health care plan. we talked to her the morning after the debate in miami. i asked her if she's for eliminating private insurance. she said, no, no i'm not. where is she inside her plan, the details of it, and what's the truth about what she proposes. >> one of the things we've learned is health care is the most emotional issue, the most important issue in america. nobody is happy with their health care but americans are smart enough to know there are a variety of alternatives, some of which make sense. there are three camps. the medicare for all camp. pure medicare for all. you've got on the other end the biden which is mend it, don't end it, make some changes and fix it. and a bunch of people in the middle of which kamala harris is the most visible, trying to weave their way through this and

have some version of medicare for all but you don't have to give up your private insurance. and to the average american it was probably unbelievably confusing. i think at the end of the day, the big winners from last night were actually warren and sanders because i don't think anybody last night really had a breakthrough moment. i think biden did okay. i think kamala harris was a bit unsteady. michael bennet was great but whether that matters not, we'll find out. for the rest of them it was a lot of this back and forth and so on. what scares me in a way as a centrist democrat is we're still in a situation where bernie sanders and elizabeth warren really stand out over the two nights for having strong positions that no one was able to take down. >> and joe biden's argument is, let's have a public option. so if you like your private insurance, keep it. if not, here's a system in place that can cover you. >> and the health care fight is the proxy for the larger

struggle to win the democratic party. is it obamaism with incremental changes or sweeping change that elizabeth warren and bernie sanders and some of the voices last night seem to want to enact. and to do that, to try to cleave joe biden from obama, it's turning into attacks on the vice president. and there were moments last night where it felt it was 9 against 1. and he did. he was stronger than he was in the first debate certainly. able to land some punches. we knew he was able to counterattack what senator harris and senator booker did. he was eviscerating de blasio. he showed some fight he was lacking the last time around that mattered since we know in a general election debate with donald trump is going to involve a lot of fight. there were other moments where joe biden still stumbled and seemed a little not in control of the facts. a couple random moments where he'd cut himself off by going anyway and stopping talking and when he tried to give his website, he tried to give the

text number to sign up. one of those blunders that won't quiet the criticism that maybe he is too old or lost a step. but i think those around him also suffered some blows. senator booker did a solid job yesterday. certainly raised his profile some, but senator harris who came in as the most obvious alternative, though a strong start, certainly was very uneven as the debate went along and took some hits from other contenders and didn't seem to have an answer for them. from health care to immigration, the candidates clashed over how best to reform the system with joe biden's stance on the issue again in the spotlight. "morning joe" is back in a moment. grab some pens.

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if you agree with me, go to joe30330 and help me in this fight. >> that's the moment that jonathan lemire referred to. joe biden in his closing remarks getting out the text that he meant to give out the website. >> that's to send a message to

if you want to send your text alerts. it reinforced a few other moments where he seemed a little off his game. >> joe biden squared off with julian castro over the issue of decriminalizing border crossings. other candidates also challenged the former vice president over the obama administration's record on deportation. >> the fact of the matter is you should be able to -- if you cross the border illegally, you should be able to be sent back. it's a crime. it's a crime and it's not one that, in fact -- >> thank you, mr. vice president. >> secretary castro, please respond. >> first of all, it looks like one of us has learned the lessons of the past and one of us hasn't. my immigration plan would also fix the broken legal immigration system because we do have a problem with that. secondly, the only way that we're going to guarantee that these kind of family separations don't happen in the future is that we need to repeal this law. what we need are politicians that have some guts on this

issue. >> mr. vice president, please respond. >> i have guts enough to say his plan doesn't make sense. >> vice president biden, i didn't hear your response when the issue came up with all those deportations. you were vice president of the united states. i didn't hear whether you tried to stop them or not using your power, your influence in the white house. did you think it was a good idea or do you think it was something that needed to be stopped? >> the president came along and he's the guy that came up with the idea, first time ever, of dealing with the dreamers. he put that in the law. he talked about a comprehensive plan which he put on -- laid before the congress saying that we should find a pathway to citizenship for people. he said we should up the number of people that we're able to bring into this country. lastly, he also pointed out we should go to the source of the problem and fix it where people were leaving it in the first place. >> you want to be president of the united states. you need to be able to answer the tough questions. i guarantee you, if you are debating donald trump, he's not going to let you off the hook. so did you say those

deportations were a good idea or did you go to the president and say this is a mistake? we shouldn't do it. >> i was vice president. i am not the president. i keep my recommendation to him in private. unlike you, i would expect you'd say whatever was said privately with him. that's not what i do. >> so reverend sharpton, mayor de blasio turning and playing the role of moderator going after and following up again and again with joe biden on the question of deportations under the obama administration. another way of getting at joe biden through president obama. >> no, i think that clearly one of the points of tension during the obama years with those in the progressive community, including me that would meet with the president, was a concern about deportation. but i think that the way the vice president was able to handle it was as good as you could expect. i think de blasio tried to come in and score there, but i think julian castro had the best lines

saying some of us learned, some of us didn't. by owning that, maybe they should have done more and they should have, in my opinion. but that he had learned from there. i think that clearly there was not some kind of nonquestioning of some of the policies of deportation under obama. when you contrast that with what is going on with trump in terms of putting children in cages and taking them from the arms of their parents, it's not a comparison. and i think that's where they should have laid a lot of the blame and time for the present situation on what is going on now on donald trump, rather than to keep trying to question obama as some indirect way of going after mr. biden, which i, frankly, think does not help them politically. >> coming up on "morning joe," he was not on the stage last night, but bernie sanders' presence still loomed large. the senator's signature issue

medicare for all is dominating the debate in the primary. he joins us next to talk about that and much more. senator bernie sanders straight ahead on "morning joe." for your heart... your joints... or your digestion...

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tonight, half of the american people are living paycheck to paycheck. and yet 49% of all new income goes to the top 1%. we have got to take on trump's racism, his sexism, xenophobia and come together in an unprecedented grassroots movement to not only defeat trump but to transform our economy and our government. >> that was bernie sanders'

opening statement on the first night of the democrats' second presidential debate. and the independent senator joins us now from vermont. bernie, i'll tell you what, it seems as if the democratic party has come to you, even though you weren't on the debate stage last night. you had "the washington post" calling you and elizabeth warren the winner. it does seem like this debate in the democratic party, running for president, now centers around all of the issues that you brought to the table in 2016. >> well, joe, thank you very much. i take that as a compliment, and i think what that suggests is that the ideas that i have been talking about are the ideas and the needs of the working class and middle class of this country. when you lay out to the american people the fact that over the last 30 years, the top 1%, joe, have seen a $21 trillion increase in their wealth while

the bottom 50% have actually seen a $900 billion decline, people understand it doesn't make sense. and people understand there's something really wrong that we are the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all people as a human right. that we pay, by far, the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. that after we bailed out wall street, 10, 11 years ago, they continue to rip us off. people do want a government not controlled by wealthy campaign contributors but a government that represents all of the people and an economy that works for them, not just the 1%. i think people are catching on, but that is where we have to go. >> and donald trump, of course, when he campaigned in 2016 actually talked about how the rich were getting richer. the poor were getting poorer.

he talked about how the system was rigged against working class americans, and he got a lot of working class americans who used to vote democratic in youngstown, ohio, and mccomb county in kenosha and racine, wisconsin. got them on his side. how do you, how do the democrats win those working class union members back in 2020? >> well, that is a great question, joe. and i think the future of america depends upon us coming up with that answer. and i think the first thing that i hope many of the people who voted for trump understand is that he is a pathological liar. and it gives me no pleasure to say that. but that's what he is. he says anything that comes to his mind that he thinks will get votes, but he has no intention of carrying through on his promises. you will remember, of course, that he promised the people of michigan and wisconsin, pennsylvania, the people of the country. he said i'm going to guarantee health care to everybody.

remember that, joe? to everybody. and then he works overtime -- he works as hard as he can to actually try to repeal obamacare and throw 32 million people off of the health insurance that they have. trump said i am going to come up with a tax plan that is not going to benefit billionaires like myself. we're not going to benefit the rich. it's going to be for the working class. 83% of the benefits of his plan go to the top 1%. he said, and i know you remember this, he said i, donald trump, i'm a different type of republican. i'm not mitch mcconnell. i'm not paul ryan. i'm not going to try to cut medicare, medicaid and social security. take a look at his budgets. he proposed massive cuts to medicaid, medicare and in fact, to social security. so to answer your question, we've got to do two things. first, we have to expose them for the liar and the fraud that

he is. that he has more billionaires in his administration than any president in american history. but second of all, and even more importantly, we have got to take a vision to a working class in this country that is struggling. a working class that is worried that their kids for the first time in the modern history of america will have a lower standard of living than they do. what does that mean? it means that we fight for a health care system that guarantees health care to every man, woman and child without any deductibles. without any copayments. without any premiums and we save the average family substantial sums of money on health care. it means that we significantly lower the cost of prescription drugs. joe, you may or may not know, a few days ago, i took a trip to windsor, ontario, in canada with about 15 people who are dealing with diabetes. we purchased insulin in canada

for one-tenth of the price being paid in the united states. how unbelievable is that? and the reason for that, of course, is in this country, the drug companies can charge us anything they want for any medicine they want because they own the united states congress. >> okay, senator -- >> and the american people -- >> go ahead. sorry, joe. >> this is not joe. this is mike. >> hey, mike. >> let's stick with that. you become president of the united states, okay? january 21st, 2021, medicare for all. you can't implement that in a single day. so a lot of people who voted for you would have employer-based health policies. and they like those health policies. let me tell you the problem a lot of people, i think, have with these policies. they are great. they give you a lot of comfort when you look at the policy, when you read about the policy

until you check into a hospital and then -- and then you walk into a casino when you are dealing with the pharmaceutical conglomerate. so on your first day in office, forget implementing medicare for all, what can you do about the pharmaceutical lobby? >> that is a great question. and let me answer it by saying this. i wrote the amendment that says that the american people should have the right to be able to take advantage of the lower cost prescription drugs in canada. but what the drug companies were able to do is put a provision in my amendment that said, well, yeah, but that has to get fda approval which is fine with me before we can implement the program. and, of course, no president has had his fda approve the fact that we can, of course, reimport perfectly safe medicine from

canada. so what i will do is have my secretary of the hhs, health and human services, and the head of the fda make sure that the medicine coming in from canada or any other country is, in fact, perfectly safe. not a hard thing to do. you are dealing with huge pharmaceutical industries. you can follow the product from its development in the factory to its warehouse back into the country. >> right. >> and when you do that, we can very substantially lower the cost of prescription drugs on day one by having pharmacists and distributors bring that product back into the united states. >> bernie, as you know, this is clare. i was with you on reimportation and negotiating and medicare. and those are things you could get done very quickly. i also remember the first two years of this administration and how the 60-vote margin saved this country. we were able to stop some of the crazy stuff that this president

was trying to do by having a 60-vote margin in the senate. a woman's right to choose, some of the things they wanted to do to the immigrant population. so let's assume for a minute that the 60-vote margin stays because there's a lot of senators on both sides, as you know, that want that institutional protection for the minority. where are the republican votes right now? you know these guys as well as i do. name a few names of the people that you think might be willing to vote for your health care plan and do away with employer-based insurance. >> well, let me make a couple of points, clare. for a start, as you also know, very major pieces of legislation have been passed with 51 votes through a budget reconciliation act. and as you obviously know, the vice president of the united states would be my vice president, would be sitting up there as president of the senate

to interpret senate rules. so i think you got to do two things. i think we need filibuster reform so that so some senator cannot have a staff member telling the senate that they're going to require 60 votes. you'll have to be on that floor. and you're going to have to be talking and talking. now i don't want the senate to become the house. i really don't. i think it's important for the opposition, conservative, progressive, to be able to make the point. but you make the point by standing on the floor. i was on that floor for 8 1/2 hours. that's what you got to do. but second of all, budget reconciliation gives you the opportunity to pass major legislation with 51 votes. and the third point that i would make, clare, i think the ideas that i am talking about, whether it is taking on the greed and the corruption and the illegal activity of the pharmaceutical industry, whether it is guaranteeing health care to all people through a medicare for all single payer system, i think that those ideas are popular.

and i think once we rally the american people, which is what i intend to do as president, i'm going to run the presidency differently than anyone else. i'm not only going to be commander in chief. i'm going to be organizer in chief. we're going to go out to kentucky. a very, very poor state where people are earning low wages. can't afford health care. can't afford insurance or pharmaceuticals. and we're going to rally the people there to tell their senators to stand with ordinary americans and not with wealthy campaign contributors. >> hey, senator. it's jonathan lemire. the last two nights at the democratic debate, sort of spirited debate between the idea of the obama-era plus versus the sweeping new big ideas. the reinvention of the party, if you will. you, of course, side on the idea of big ideas. the big green deal and medicare for all. my question is how precisely are you going to pay for all of that? >> good. okay. very good.

and we have very precise methods and programs to pay for it. let me give you a couple of examples. in terms of medicare for all, we start off with the truthful premise that we're already spending twice as much per person on health care as do the people any of other country. we spend twice as much as the canadians do. and when you are in canada, if you have heart surgery, you're in a hospital for a month, you walk out without paying any bill at all because health care is a human right. so we're starting off in the advantageous position of already spending a huge amount of money. what we do is we shift the payments away from premiums, away from co-payments, away from out-of-pocket expenses because of the huge deductibles that many people have. the high cost of prescription drugs and the incredible

complexity of the system. it is driving doctors crazy. it is driving patients crazy. it costs us hundreds of billions of dollars a year when you have hundreds of insurance programs, each one with different deductibles, premiums, co-payments, and networks for doctors. you have a simple plan. and what you do is you put that into the tax base. we have brought forth a variety of ideas that -- how you can pay for it. obviously, we'll pay for it in a progressive way. when three individuals in america own more wealth than the bottom half of the american people, yeah, we are going to ask the wealthy and large corporations to significantly contribute to the needs of the american people, including health care. second of all, i do believe that we should make in the year 2019 or 2020 public colleges and universities tuition free because everybody knows that in a competitive, global economy if we want our kids to go out and get the decent jobs, they need a

higher education. and i am very proud to tell you that in california right now, you got los angeles, san francisco, their community colleges are now tuition free. tennessee, community colleges are free. new york state moving in that direction. new york university medical school, tuition free. so that idea is gaining a lot of traction. but the bottom line is, we need to do that and we also need to cancel student debt, which is so oppressive for so many people in this country. how do i pay for that? i will tell you how i pay for that. we impose a modest tax on wall street speculation that raises $2.4 trillion over a ten-year period. so i think if you look at what i want to do in terms of education, we do pay for it. >> hi, senator. so medicare for all, over all, is very popular. but when it comes to public

opinion on totally getting rid of private insurance folks are just not there. how do you change public opinion on that? >> let me respectfully push back to you a little bit on that. there is just the poll that came out i believe yesterday on i believe it was you gov. they asked the question, the difficulty of polling is obviously how you phrase them. if you phrase the question to say, would you be supportive of expansion of medicare to cover all of our people where you have freedom of choice, which my bill does, in terms of the doctor or the hospital where you are, no copayments, no deductibles, no out of pocket expenses, but you will pay more in taxes, the answer is people will support that proposal. i hear every single day from insurance and drug companies, people love their health

insurance companies. that is not true. people do not love their health insurance companies. in fact, importantly, every single year 50 million americans lose the private health insurance they have. if you leave your job today, joe, or mika, or clair, you'll end up with a different private insurance program. if your employer says, you know, guys, we're paying too much, i'm shifting policy. we're getting a different company. you lose your private insurance company. if you quit your job you lose your private insurance. 50 million americans every single year are in that position. when we have medicare for all, you will have far more stability than you currently have. for medicare for all we'll expand benefits for seniors to include dental care, hearing aids, glass, which are not

currently covered. very important for the seniors. >> bernie, always great to talk to you. congratulations on what everybody is considering to be a very successful second debate. congratulations and looking forward to talking to you soon. >> all right. we'll be right back with a look ahead to tonight's trump rally in ohio and give you our final thoughts on a very busy news day. we call it the mother standard of care. it's how we care for our cancer patients- like job. when he was diagnosed with cancer, his team at ctca created a personalized care plan to treat his cancer and side effects. so job could continue to work and stay strong for his family. this is how we inspire hope. this is how we heal. we love you, daddy. good night. i love you guys. cancer treatment centers of america. appointments available now.

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launching vicious, anti-semitic screeds. [ chanting ] send her back. send her back. >> jonathan, that is of course the chants of north carolina that got so much praise from neo nazis, white supremacists, fascists after the last donald trump speech. donald trump speaking tonight in cincinnati. you're going to cover it and be there. what are you expecting? >> that's right. tonight will be his first rally since that moment where the chants of send her back broke out about somali born senator omar who is of course an american citizen. there will be a lot of scrutiny tonight. will the president incite it if he goes after the congresswoman once more or perhaps elijah

cummings? if the chant does come out dozen president trump do anything to stop it or simply bask in it? >> with that thought what might happen tonight, we'll find out, obviously, your thoughts. i don't want to say final thought. that's like, you know, your thought today. >> today. well, this week we saw many -- we saw two debates and many candidates are going to have their last presidential debate. but the race is still fluid and we have a long way to go in this presidential cycle. >> final thought from me is let's watch that budget vote. there was a real divide in the republican party. should be today. you know, there is a real divide in the republican party. they are going to places on spending and debt and deficit the republican party would never have gone. even a few short years ago. so watch that vote. you'll have a lot of republican defections. mitch mcconnell's -- wait -- moscow mitch will have his hands full today. >> that name seems to be catching on. >> it's going to be a few days of course if we see any polling

out of the last two debates, i think there is a sense joe biden delivered enough of what he needed to do to sort of at the very least answer some questions about his first performance in the debate but, still, there is a sense among some he is not as strong as they would like and is only going to take more heat from the left, warren and sanders, when they are all on the same debate stage together for the first time next month. >> once again, my final thought is the red sox are going forward with no help. we should have gotten help yesterday by 4:00 p.m. no help. i'm terribly depressed. >> go cards! >> if they don't care, then why should we? anyway, it's been a great show today. great having everybody on. it's going to be interesting. all eyes on cincinnati tonight. we'll see if the president continues his race war or decides to be less abusive to people of color. that does it for us at "morning joe." stick around. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now.

>> thanks much. i'm stephanie ruhle. it is thursday, august 1. here's what's happening now. as the "new york times" describes it, the love is gone. in part two of the second democratic debate, the candidates focused their fire on current front-runner joe biden with his former boss, the hugely popular barack obama taking a whole lot of fire himself from health care to immigration. the contenders unleashed several attacks against the former president's policies and then some. >> you good? >> mr. president,