guarantee by guess who? the sons and daughters of this audience. >> couldn't really follow -- >> the sons and daughters of what are running? >> i didn't realize we had that much power. >> we're geniuses but the rest of that made no sense. >> i think we're all members of the ilaluminum nati. >> jack is very powerful but he's in control. i don't know if you've seen -- there's a couple of things going down right now. >> what the heck was he talking about? you can't decipher. >> how old's george? >> he's eight. >> by the time they're ten they'll own half the banks in europe. jack, also, he's working very hard right now on coming -- you got to come over-the-top. you got to come over-the-top. you got to finish through and

like right there you got to finish there if you want to throw strikes and a lot of times he comes like that and wonders off. >> sort of like that did. >> we're talking about two things over dinner, one follow through, the momentum taking you down and you go right to the strike zone and two, how he's going to seize the bank over the next six months. >> politely knowing jack. >> jack is extraordinarily polite. but mergers and acquisitions is his thing just kind of the wind up delivery pitch. what about george? >> maybe that's why he's so distracting about the pitching because he's thinking about the m. & a. >> that was an unbelievable performance last night by mr. bannon. >> we're talking about that part. >> i couldn't follow. >> to have him attack mitt romney and mitt romney's mission

nairry work and i think even mitt romney's family and attack one of the most decent men i've ever met in public service just shows you how horrified he is, how frightened he is at the prospect of mitt romney running in utah and getting into the senate. there's such easy tells. last night was more about mitt romney than roy moore from what i've seen and he attacked -- he just attacked everything about mitt romney, how interesting that he's attacking mitt romney's because he was a missionary in the 1960s and you look at the guy that he worshipped, steve bannon, donald trump, five deferments for bone spurs while he's playing

football and golfing and it's -- it's unbelievable. >> well, we have mike barnicle with us and john heldman and alyss jordan, david ignatius and let's continue with that thought. here's more of what steve bannon as -- what he said as he plunged deeper and deeper into alabama's senate race. >> you hid behind your religion. you went to france to be a missionary while guys were dieing in vietnam in rice paddies. not one day of service in afghanistan and iraq. we have 7,000 dead and 52,000 casualties and where were the romneys during those wars? you have the guts to get on the stage with vietnam and you

expect us to believe honor and integrity in his pinky finger than your entire family has in their whole dna. >> so what's mr. bannon trying to do right here? >> i didn't hear a lot of reaction. >> i'm just curious. >> what do you think? what's his strategy there? >> romney is among those who yesterday decided as the rest of the republican party has decided in one way or the other to meekly and sheepishly go along in some way with donald trump having thrown in his lot with roy moore, the republican national committee now is behind roy moore, you got a lot of these senators who called for disowning moore who are now saying, well, i guess we don't have any choice to go along you have mitt romney out there still plugging away and now he's the most prominent large scale

leader still leading the charge. bannon leads him as the enemy du jour. i'm struck mostly about what you said, it's amazing for a person who is the person who claims credit for putting donald trump in the white house to be attacking any one for having not served in vietnam giving donald trump's record on service. >> so donald trump in 1968 stood at 6'2". he played football, tennis, squash, golf. his medical history was not blemished. >> loved golf. >> other than he had a routine appendectomy when he was aged ten and yet willie geist, donald trump got fire deferments, got deferments for bone spurs and the "the new york times" reports that on the day he graduated from college from the ivy league college after getting five deferments on the day he

graduated from college, 40 americans were killed in vietnam on that one day alone and here we have in alabama, steve bannon daring to talk about deferments. >> four of those were for college, one of them were for bone spurs. beyond the hypocrisy, you watch that and you wonder what the purpose was? were you there to elect roy moore or were you there to serve some purpose about you? that was the purest dis tillation of where america's politics have gone. your political opponents aren't just wrong, they're corrupt, they're your enemy. he was talking about a vote for doug jones was a vote for the clinton agenda. he was making up boogie men. it was a bizarre performance. >> and he said it wasn't about

roy moore or donald trump, he's trying to distract but then he makes it about mitt romney and again -- here you have five deferments from donald trump and 40 dead in service the day he graduated and i think what strikes me the most is just how stupid both donald trump and steve bannon think people in alabama are. those people in the audience, they think that they're stupid because those people in the audience are smart people, they know that donald trump had five deferments, they probably even know that 40 people died on the day that donald trump -- >> very smart in alabama. great group. we've been down there a lot. >> that donald trump on the day he graduated from an ivy league college because his millionaire dad let him get into that ivy league college helped him get -- he wasn't really smart enough to get into ivy league college,

just wasn't, his dad gets him in to a ivy league college and on the day he graduates, 40 people die in vietnam. people know that, mike. >> last nice's performance was predictable, he was depressing, he was steve bannon playing a part that he's carved out for himself and it plays to what is happening in our politics, both sides actually but especially the republican side led by president trump and steve bannon and it's their ability to hone in on resentment. they know how to extract resentment -- >> middle east, 98%, i want everybody to breathe this fact in. this guy's coming in out of no are, neither he nor donald trump are republicans. in 2012, mitt romney got 98% of the republican vote in alabama in 2012. >> yes, he also won 60% of the

entire state, democrats and republicans whereas roy moore in his election that year in alabama only won 51%. so based on 2012, mitt romney might be more popular in general election than roy moore. this last night was just a display that was all about steve bannon. he's coming in, he's an outsider, goldman sachs banker lecturing all these alabama people about all the globalists are out to get you. it just is incredible irony to think that people in alabama are that dumb where they don't see through that this outsider is coming down to lecture. >> steve bannon does think, unfortunately, and he's dead wrong that people in alabama are so stupid that they'll let a guy that worked in hollywood with our friend jeff and worked in hollywood for years, worked at goldman sachs and claims to have

made a gazillion dollars off "seinfeld" that this guys going to come to alabama as some favorite son. >> a favorite son. >> yeah, a sort of man of the people when if you ask certainly anybody that serves in alabama what is the greatest -- what's one of the greatest developments in alabama's economy over the past decade? mercedes benz coming to tuscaloosa. the people doing such a great job with mercedes that mercedes actually said it was one of the most productive profitable plants in the world and i think they're now at their second or third class of mercedes cars that they make in tuscaloosa, alabama because alabama does such a good job. his problem is he thinks it's 1962 in alabama and you know why

because that's because he's a yankee that worked in goldman sachs and hollywood. he doesn't know the culture there any more than the guy from wall street would know the culture -- you know, some where else. in north dakota. >> so does he think it's 1962 or does he think it's the primary where it appeared to have worked? a lot of these tactics worked -- >> he thinks its donald trump's america, that's what he thinks. >> well -- >> what is donald trump's america? >> very sad place. >> donald trump's america is actually an america where two out of three americans disapprove of the president, donald trump's america is an america where we have a president who has the lowest approval ratings in the history of this country. donald trump's america is actually where we're moving to a place where one out of three republicans now alyss are saying

they want somebody else to run for president in 2020 other than donald trump. donald trump's america is a place where most americans are offended by donald trump. >> well, and to thread the needle between republicans who want a republican agenda and they want to see success with a republican majority, but they just have -- they aren't sure these days, they don't approve of the trump constant antics that's the needle we need to take a step back. >> all that looking at the camera and pointing and screaming it was to put in the united states senate a man who has been been accused of ped owe fillia, dating 16-year-olds and 17-year-olds and lying at it later and saying i don't know any of these women which is untrue when you hear those stories. that's what he's so worked up

about. that's what the rnc is going back in for, that's what mitch mcconnell are putting their careers on the line for. is it worth it, guys, for roy moore? for roy moore? you want to put all this out on the line for roy moore? >> i'm thinking of so many friends that i've had that i still have, people i still consider friends, david ignatius, who are friends, who have been friends who consider mitt romney their close friends who helped fund his campaign in 2012 and yet now are they going to -- unfortunately i'm afraid the answer is yes, do they continue to stand by a man and his associate who absolutely trashed everything about mitt romney, trashed mitt romney's character, his religion, his

missionary service, trashed his family, trashed his children? is it really -- it's shocking -- very few things should shock you or me about washington any more, this does shock me, how many people just throw away past friendships? >> joe, it's another roundhouse swing from steve bannon, it's a reminder that he's running an insurgency and that donald trump is really the candidate of that insurgency. his base keeps getting smaller but its insurgency against the traditional republican party and its leadership. we heard it as clear as it could be last night. they want to take them down. the painful thing to me is to watch those mainstream republicans who really are threatened by bannon cringe on capitol hill pause they're

afraid that they're afraid of that 33%, they're afraid of that small group that's supporting the insurgency. >> we showed a poll, 31% of republicans want somebody else to run for president in 2020. only 63% of republicans want donald trump to run for president. if that question was asked for democrats about barack obama, one year after he was sworn in the numbers would be in the 90s. if you asked about george w. bush end of 2001, the number would be in the 90s. if you asked a question about bill clinton in 1997 the numbers would be in the 90s. this is -- this is the mirage and this is what i don't understand, this is basic, it is elemental, we've been saying it for ten, 11 months now, he's getting 33% coalition and yet the republican party is destroying themselves and now embracing a man who's been accused of being a pedophile, a

pedophile for a guy who is opposed by two-thirds of americans and for a guy who is opposed by one-third of his own party to seek reelection. >> i think it's important. it's a fact and i'm not saying they're right about this but it's a fact that steve bannon and the people around president trump thought that the day mitt romney came out, you remember when he did that speech in the middle of the primary, march or so of 2016 when he came out at university of utah and gave that very passionate speech opposing donald trump, within donald trump's world that was a good day for donald trump. they all rejoiced. they thought that romney coming out against trump was the best thing that could have happened to them in that moment in terms of what his political profile was. when you look at what bannon is doing, he's replaying that in his mind again, he sees romney as a foil that will help -- roy moore is donald trump in this

moment. he's running what they see as the insurgency outsider, antidemocrat, antiliberal campaign, they're putting aside all of those questions about his past, about his history just as they asked republicans to put aside all the questions about donald trump's character and pe havre and everything else and joe, you look at the normal math and you say there's no reason why -- none of this makes any sense but the reality is, in the republican party right now they all live in the same way that donald trump is obsessed with 2016, a lot of our establishment republicans think about to 2016 and say -- >> they're fighting the last -- >> they are. we doubted him, we never thought he could win, we thought the math didn't make sense for him, but he proved us all wrong and there is obsessed with 2016. paul ryan, mitch mcconnell, all of them are obsessed with 2016 as donald trump is. >> if you step back from the heat of the moment and look at these two participants, donald trump and steve bannon, you see

both of them playing a part in some -- some crazed demonic destructive dream they have about deconstructing america and if you look at the behavior of the trump administration thus far, i mean basically it's to diminish or destroy existing orders, the fbi, the state department. >> middle east peace. >> the federal government? the budget? >> north korea? >> it's an individual dream to destroy the existing order with no thought -- very little thought given to what happens to america. >> and how the depressing that there are -- he has allies on the hill and in the media who are joining in attacking the fbi, and backing bob mueller. i can't believe what i'm reading here. they don't understand that donald trump will leave the stage and chances are good he's probably going to leave the

stage sooner rather than later. >> yeah. >> and maybe that's what they fear that bob mueller is on to something but don't they understand that the day after donald trump leaves town, you got to hear me here, but the day after donald trump leaves town what you said about the fbi will still be around to be read, we'll still be able to archive what you said, we'll still be able to archive what you said on your cable news shows. your attacks of the men and women who serve this country proudly to defend this country and who are on the front lines after september 11th, your attacks in defense of a man who was unworthy of your support will live forever and those words will be words that you will have to eat every day. donald trump's going to leave town, maybe it's in 2020, maybe it's before then.

your words in trashing the professionalism of the men and the women of the federal bureau of investigation, your words in trashing the intel community, your words in trashing the american judiciary, your words in trashing diplomats in the state department, they will live forever. i've had this conversation with people who have been in the administration's before. nobody mika, ever realizes presidents rent the office. >> yeah. >> they don't own the office, they rent the office. >> they're not king. >> and everybody that gets in there for some reason thinks they will be there forever. >> they think they know something that everyone else doesn't know. we have barely begun this morning, there's so much to cover. still ahead on "morning joe," donald trump jr. is set to testify on capitol hill today as an nbc news exclusive reveals new details about the information he was looking for in a meeting with a russian attorney plus the very latest on the trump's administration plan to recognize jerusalem as

israel's capital. did jared kushner's push for middle east peace just get a whole lot harder? but first, bill karins with a check on those raging wildfires out west. bill? >> good morning. to more dangerous days. we have three fires out there in southern california, the big one, the thomas fire up to 55,000 acres that was in 24 hours. that is an incredibly sized fire. there are 2,000 fire personnel on that blaze and i just saw in "the los angeles times" it reached the 101, it jumped highway 101 and now reached the pacific ocean. no fire line was able to hold it. the winds blew it all the way to the pacific and they're still battling that blaze. there's the creek fire that's 11,000 acres. that's the one that's just north of los angeles and also the rye fire. today we're going to continue to watch this. this is video of the creek fire there. all of this smoke and haze is blowing down toward the los angeles area too creating a lot of problems. 21 structures burned with that one, estimated 150 with the thomas fire and that number of

the thomas fire is expected to go up considerably. here's what we're dealing with weather-wise today. a lot of rain down along the gulf coast, lake-effect snow we're dealing with especially in buffalo and upstate new york. otherwise just cold chillier air is dominating across the country. not a lot of weather issues for your travels today. we'll be right back. you can do it. we can do this? we can do this. at fidelity, our online planning tools are clear and straightforward so you can plan for retirement while saving for the things you want to do today. nana, let's do this! aye aye, captain! ♪ and as you go through life -whoo! -♪ tryin' to reach your goal

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while still signing the waiver. the state department has issued a warning for diplomats in the region to take extra precautions for their safety, starting today. joining us now former u.s. ambassador to nato and former state department spokesman nicklaus burns. he's professor of diplomacy and international relation tez harvard kennedy school of government and in washington, former cia analyst and national security analyst ned price. nick burns we'll start with you and we have david ignatius. what are some of the consequences, ramifications, pluses and minuses of this move? >> well, this is a major mistake. number one, every american president since harry truman has faced this issue and we're the custodian of the peace process, we're the likely mediator. we're not going to get ahead of the israelis and palestinians and make a big determination on

one of the final status issues. number two when the president makes his speech today, 1.6 billion muslims are going to disagree in the arab world and muslim world. it will diminish our be ability to work with them. third, i fear there's going to be violence. we've seen this in the past on this issue of jerusalem. holiest city for jews and christians, third holiest city for muslim. the palestinians are already calling for demonstrations. we'll see demonstrations against american embassies and violence and fourth you have to ask this question, why now? this is a major concession by the united states, a concession that no president has made before. we appear to be getting absolutely nothing in return for this concession, so why when there are -- there aren't even negotiations right now. abbas and netanyahu are not working together, why make this concession now? i would say this is atrocious negotiating behavior by

president trump. >> so david, we've been hearing now since the beginning of this administration that it's jared kushner who's going to bring peace to the middle east who's working on that process right now. beyond this just being a symbolic fulfilling of a campaign promise that donald trump made, what does this do to the peace process such that it is or the beginning of any negotiation? >> willie, there really isn't a peace process to speak of now. what kushner has been trying to do is get some other new developments started. they have an idea about moving in gaza with help from egypt, the uae, other funders and try to make gaza which is always been the messiest part of the palestinian territories something of a showcase for development, they have an idea of working with friendly countries in the gulf, saudi arabia, uae to in some way move toward arab recognition of israel. i think all those moves which

kushner's been thinking about and working on are going to be more difficult because of this jerusalem announcement. as nick byrne said, you don't get much for this. what you lose is the role the united states has played as the mediator, as the broker of negotiations that reserves its own judgment on final status issues such as the status of jerusalem until the end of negotiations. that's really why we've been the convener now for 50 years of attempts to resolve this dispute. it's a significant loss of that negotiators role imbalance. >> ned price, jordan, uae, egypt, what's happening in those capitals today in this increasingly and daily more volatile region? >> i think that's precisely the concern and that's one of the many reasons why it's been reported that secretaries mattis

and tillerson voiced private opposition to this move. this is not an america first foreign policy gesture. this is a trump first move, a move that is predicated on a accuracy political campaign trail promised. this will not make the american people diplomats, military personnel, private citizens safer in the countries that you just mentioned and as we saw the consulate general in jerusalem put out a very stern messages essentially telling americans in that part of the world they should be on lockdown. we have seen similar warnings from the state department. this will lead to violence. the question is what will be the ramifications of that violence and just how deadly it will be? >> the image in my mind as the president is this massive drunk bull and the world is a china shop? >> this to me has more in terms of public diplomacy wrim pli indications than practical

implications just because -- he's actually signing another six month waiver to keep the embassy in tel aviv. he's saying he's moving it but not taking action necessarily by building a new embassy in jerusalem and start that process of shifting operations. so i don't get what we gain other than just inflaming people. >> john, is this yet another example of donald trump doing something signaling that he's going to do something that he doesn't really do so he can fulfill a campaign promise? >> i think it clearly falls into that category where what he's interested in, again, he with always go back to the same touch stone -- he feels incredibly beholden to or -- he's trying to go back to that 2016, what did i do? there's this base of people that put me in this office that overcame all the odds, there are things that he feels are core to those promises that he has to at least look like he's fulfilling.

no one at this date, no one believes the wall will ever get built yet trump continues to talk about the wall as if it's coming right around the corner. this feels like the same kind of thing where he has to pay lip service to it as if he understands or being told by senior people, actually doing it would be foolish or improbable, impossible. >> and the problem, mika, if you look at the warnings from the state department and talk to any dip local mat, it makes everything we do in the middle east all that more difficulty and across the world? >> like we needed that. we got a great panel. everyone stay put because there are developments in the russia investigations which we'll be getting to strayed aheight ahea "morning joe."

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when did the president know that mike flynn lie to the fbi? >> as i said earlier, i referred you back to john dowd's clarification. >> i'm asking for a day. when the announcement was made friday. >> i'm not aware of those specifics. >> nbc news did follow-up with john dowd. >> and what did he say? >> no surprise she gave no answer because she never does

and if she does it's misleading and infuriating because it almost backs up the president's racism or bias or horrific decision he's made. john dowd said nothing. she said follow-up with dowd. they did. and he wrote, this, flynn was first accused and charged last friday. no more questions. so they'll be no answers because he didn't write the tweet, right? >> donald trump jr. is set to appear before the congress today. he's expected to face questions about trump's family financial entanglements as well as his controversial meeting with a woman purporting to be a russian lawyer offering dirt on hillary clinton. >> it comes as a new report is shedding more light on that meeting. according to information could be takened by msnbc, a russian attorney said donald trump jr. asked her if she had evidence of illegal donations to the clinton foundation in a meeting at trump

tower in june of 2016. responding to written questions from the senate judiciary committee, the lawyer, said she did not have the evidence trump junior was requesting and believes he misunderstood the nature of their meeting after receiving an e-mail from the intermediary who set it up promising incriminating information on hillary clinton. political campaigns seek out opposition research on their opponents, the question for donald trump jr. is whether he'll seek allegations that he sought material from a foreign national. that would be illegal. a lawyer for trump jr. declined to comment but referred nbc news to the statement his client released in september about the meeting where trump jr. said he felt he should at least hear them out if they had information concerning clinton's fitness character or qualifications. >> that price, you also have of course done jr.'s father donald

trump himself looking into a camera at a press conference asking the russians to release 33,000 e-mails and trying to get information on the clinton foundation. so this is hardly surprising. >> it's hardly surprising indeed. i throughout the campaign we saw something that could be termed collusion in plain sight whether it was donald trump during the summer asking russia to release those e-mails or donald trump in the final month of the campaign alone referring to wikileaks some 163 times commending his followers to go check out all of the pillford, the documents that the russians had pillford from john podesta, the dnc and other sources. this is not surprising that donald trump jr. was asking natalia about dirt on the clinton foundation. this was a campaign team that was eager to get sort of dirt, any sort of ammunition

regardless of the source including if it came from the russian government. >> right. david ignatius, i'm struck as we go back to this story of john dowd now suddenly saying nothing about this trump tweet. i am struck that once again that somebody in "the washington post" wrote this i believe yesterday evening, struck once again how the trump teams own bumbling around, their own miscues, their own failures put the president and their administration in more trouble? it took them four days to clean up this mess with john dowd first coming out and saying he wrote the tweet himself. everybody knows that's not true and he's going to be talking to bob mueller about that i'm sure. and then the next dayty cobb and john dowd having a back and forth disagreeing whether the president is above the law or not and then finally on tuesday, john dowd saying i'm not going to answer any questions about

this which is actually what any other attorney representing any other white house would have said on saturday? >> my sense is that the lawyers for trump and the white house have a problem which is that they have a very restless client who wants desperately for this investigation to be over and they keep telling him, mr. president, that this is going to be wrapped up by christmas, be wrapped up in january and every week we see new evidence that the investigation's, in fact, broadening, that there are new areas that are coming under scrutiny. i do think as you just suggested that the statements keep trying to explain facts, explain that the president knew that flynn had lied, well except that's not what the president met to say. they're trying to square their positions with the information that they know mueller now has. mueller knows exactly what donald trump knew about flynn and his phone calls because he's

got the testimony from flynn. so they're trying to get their statements so they match more or less with what they know mueller now has and i think that's very difficult for them. >> mike? >> nick byrnes, every day, russia, russia, russia, russia with regard to north korea and syria and the middle east, russia with regard to our election campaign. the newtering of the state department with regard to handling russia now supposedly secretary of state tillerson is having a meeting tomorrow with labroff what's the state department's role or lack there of in forwarding the mission in the world with the aforementioned russia. >> they've been side lined from a budget perspective. we're nearly a year in this administration and you don't have senior officials in the

department. i marvel at what the administration has done on the russia side. the president of the united states is not implementing the sanctions that the senate voted 98-2 this past july. he's not yet implemented. so he's still currying favor, trying to with vladimir putin. i think putin doesn't respect people who are weak, the president would be well advised to put these sanctions forward. they need to feel pressure by republicans. >> what's your instinct on the hold that putin clearly has on trump? what's your instinct on that? >> the generous explanation is that the president is extraordinarily naive, that he has this concept that he wants to be at a summit with putin, the two most powerful leaders and they're really not, that's the generous explanation. the other explanation is being investigated by robert mueller. if there's something there, if there was collusion, if there are financial ties, we'll have to see what the right explanation is but it's not

working for the united states. we're not effective with the russians because we don't have a tough minded president and mike, i'd say if you measure every president from truman to trump, trump's the weakest president towards russia at a time when russia's a major problem for us internationally. >> so ned price, this latest nbc story that mika just laid out, just tells us again that donald trump jr. went to the meeting with the explicit purpose of finding out dirt on hillary clinton not about adoption. you put this together with the plea deal that was struck by mike flynn on friday that it was announced with bob mueller. where are we right now and if you were sitting in the white house in the oval office in particular how concerned would you be specifically? >> i would be very concerned and especially if my name were jared kushner, if i were other senior officials in this white house, i would be quite concerned. let's not forget that jared kushner was brought before the

mueller's team earlier this month just a couple days before we learned, before we got the first indications that michael flynn had flipped and it's quite clear that bob mueller brought jared kushner before his team, before that news became public so he could get jared kushner on the record and we heard these excul tri explanation from kushner's lawyer that it was a brief meeting and they touted that as if the mueller team was not looking at kushner as a target of this investigation. and just days later we learned that michael flynn had flipped. it became very clear what bob mueller's strategy was. they wanted to get jared kushner on the record to potentially catch him in his lies. jared kushner has been at the center of pretty much every episode we have seen here whether it's the trump tower meeting in june of 2016 that we've been discussing, whether it's the meeting in december of 2016 with sergei in which he

tried to establish a back channel. jared kushner's been at the center of this. if i were him i'd be filling very uneasy about where all of this is heading. >> thank you so much to you both. coming up, hard ball's chris matthews joins us here on set and former trump campaign manager corey lewandowski joins the table. "morning joe" is coming right back. i mean wish i had time to take care of my portfolio, but..

well, what are you doing tomorrow -10am? staff meeting. noon? eating. 3:45? uh, compliance training. 6:30? sam's baseball practice. 8:30? tai chi. yeah, so sounds relaxing. alright, 9:53? i usually make their lunches then, and i have a little vegan so wow, you are busy. wouldn't it be great if you had investments that worked as hard as you do?

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david ignatius just got off the phone with a source at the white house, unnamed source, who gave you more information aboutiabout israel and jerusalem. what can you tell us? >> we've been talking all morning about what in the world the white house think it's doing. why does it make sense? here is the response. it's pretty much what you would expect the trump administration to say. yes, this is disruptive.

we bds thunderstand that. that's our intention. all these peace processes haven't accomplished anything. we're going to go a different direction. they argue that this will push the palestinians toward the major arab states. that's what they want. they think it's useful. they argue finally that this shows that the administration is strong in its approach to this, willing to do other things that people haven't considered and that that in the long run, is good for thes role as a peacemaker. very different way of looking at this but worth sharing what they think they're doing here. >> and it's their suggestion that if the arab states work with the palestinians to broker peace, this could be taken off the table in the next six months? >> i didn't get into those specifics, joe. there's no question that this administration, as we saw in president trump's trip to saudi arabia, thinks it's very close

to the saudis, uae and expects to have their help. push the palestinians toward them, knowing that they'll be more sympathetic to the u.s. in the long run than they may appear now. >> six to nine months ago, the trump administration was deterred by the palestinian leadership, as you know, from announcing this change. and the reason they did it was because they said if we see movement in the peace process we won't have to make the change. based on your reporting maybe they think now is the time. >> you have a new column in the washington post entitled "kim jong-un wants to join trump's club." lovely. explain what you mean. >> well, what i mean is that after this latest north korean missile test, they fired off the icbm that we think hit the continental united states. everybody took as a worrying sign, and it is. but the north korean response has been to say, we have now achieved our goal of having a

nuclear weapons capability, a russian emissary visited pyongyang and said the united states is willing to sit down. the last thing we want to do is recognize their nuclear status. a lot of diplomats are trying to finess this. one side claims one thing, the other claims another. i don't want to get people's hopes raised that we're on the verge of turning this toward diplomacy but that those straws are in the wind and it's very interesting to read the korean press right now and see these interesting, somewhat different accounts, less belligerent, talking about a pivot that might be ahead. >> david ignatius, thank you very much.

elise, thank you for coming in this morning. days after the original roy moore allegation in "the washington post," george will wrote that national republicans, quote, having made the star of the access hollywood tape president are horrified that roy moore might become 1% of the senate. where do republicans stand three weeks later? george will joins the next next on "morning joe," as well as chris matthews and peggy noonan. we'll be right back. keyboard clacking ] [ mouse clicks, keyboard clacking ] [ mouse clicking ] [ keyboard clacking ] [ mouse clicking ] [ keyboard clacking ] ♪ good questions lead to good answers. our advisors can help you find both. talk to one today and see why we're bullish on the future. yours.

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i think he's going to do very well. we don't want to have a liberal democrat in alabama, believe me. we want strong borders. we want stopping crime. we want to have the things that we represent and we certainly don't want to have a liberal democrat that's controlled by nancy pelosi and controlled by chuck schumer. we don't want to have that for alabama. >> i had hoped that judge moore would resign. in other words, withdraw from the race. that obviously is not going to happen. if he were to be elected, i think he would immediately have an issue with the ethics committee, which they would take up. >> all right. president trump and majority leader mitch mcconnell once again on the same page. welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, december 6th. and joining the conversation this hour, calmness for "the

wall street journal" and political contributor for nbc news and msnbc, peggy noonan. columnist for "the washington post" george will and host of msnbc's "hardball," chris matthews. >> i like the higher octave there. >> the author of the great new book "bobby kennedy:raging spirit." >> what did you say, floating toward the top? >> bouncing. it's different than what we have now. >> it is? >> very different than what we have now. by the way, this reminds me of a scene in "citizen kane" where he brings in all the talent of the world, right? brings them all together. >> we've got peggy here. that does it right there. >> take a look at this. >> irish catholics. you always called her margaret. i thought that was sort of like the tribe. >> i think that's what it was. i think that was us -- i did not

call him christopher, however. he was chris. >> always chris. >> i always liked margaret. >> angels with dirty faces aspect of this, how we went in different roads slightly, politically. >> totally true, coming from the same place and winding up in different arrival areas. >> you know what? who knows, maybe this president brings everybody back to the same place in the end. >> see? >> we shall see. >> one more book here. this is incredible. these are your daughter's photos. is it okay that i plug this? >> be my guest. >> stunning photos born back from, obviously, the final line of the great gatsby and into the past. remarkable. talk about the pictures and how they're taken. >> she's reviving an old technique of tin types and did it with a whole bunch of people, famous actors and actresses at sundance. and turned out there was a real

appetite for them. >> that's fantastic. >> kristen wiig. >> and a good dad you are, as well. >> victoria will. steve bannon, roy moore's -- it is less than one week when voters cast their ballots in a race overshadowed by allegations of predatory behavior. >> it is crystal clear that these women are telling the truth and roy moore is not. this is about decency and not a political party. and anyone who thinks otherwise should be ashamed. i damn sure believe that i have done my part to ensure that men who hurt little girls should go to jail and not the united

states senate. >> while roy moore has the fullbacking of the white house, mitt romney has zero patience for his candidacy, calling it a matter of honor and integrity for the republican party. and steve bannon responded with a personal attack right back. >> you hid behind your religion. you went to france to be a missionary while guys were dying in rice pattis in vietnam. do not talk to me about honor and integrity. you ran for commander in chief. you had five sons, not one day of service in afghanistan and iraq. we have 7,000 dead and 52,000 casualties and where were the romneys during those wars? you have the guts to go on a stage against a man who served in vietnam? judge roy moore has more honor and integrity in his pinky finger than your entire family

has in its whole dna. >> what the -- >> steve bannon goes out and attacks mitt romney, attacks his family, attacks his missionary work, demeans it. and he does it all for a man who had five deferments during the 1960s, including one for bone spurs who, on the day he graduated from an ivy league school that his father probably helped him get into, when he walked across stage to get his diploma, 40 men, 40 boys died in vietnam that very day. my question, actually, out of all of that -- because we know what he's saying about the romneys is utter nonsense, how stupid does steve bannon think that the good people of alabama are that they don't understand that the very person he's doing bidding for skipped out on the draft to go to an ivy league

school and walked across the stage the same day 40 american boys died in vietnam? >> i think that election will be very tough for the country and the world. everybody in the world is watching this alabama election. i think it's because the only way that the republican candidate can win -- he is the republican candidate. that's the heart of this thing -- going after the issue of abortion, a powerful issue down there. and i think he's going to win. the reason i think he's going to win is for an evangelical christian to go into that voting booth and vote for abortion is unimaginable, to vote for gay marriage is probably unimaginable. they can vote to forgive a fellow christian. i think that's how it's going to work. we may not like the looks of it. looking at it down there i think that's what's going to happen. either way there's not a lot of moral capacity around this

country -- moral compass around this country. >> i think what you say will turn out to be true down there. certainly steve bannon showing up down there to make this slashing speech tells you that steve bannon thinks it's pretty much going to happen for moore and he wants to get the credit for it. and he wants his insurgency within the party to get the credit for it. i am struck, as i have been before in his case, by the lack of shyness about making slashing personal attacks on members of what had been his party. and i think all of this is part of the breakup of the republican party. >> but, peggy, he attacks mitt romney, who got 98% of the vote in alabama in 2012, the general election. and all across the country,

people are booing the names of john mccain and george w. bush when they're mentioned at republican club meetings. >> uh-huh. >> it's as if amnesia has -- >> to me, it's part and parcel with what elected trump. people decided i don't like what is. i don't like the way we've been going. >> yes. >> i don't like both parties. i don't like their mess and dysfunction and their separation from our concerns. they don't care about us in the least. so, they're in an ornery mood, still. >> that's the painful truth. >> it didn't go away after the 2016 election. it's still here. >> isn't the outrage you hear on this set and what you heard from steve bannon precisely what he's after? >> sure. >> doesn't he know what he's doing in he mentioned our show during the event last night. he figures this worked for donald trump, hypocrisy be

damned, roy moore's past be damned, as long as you're fighting, you're winning. >> bannon is not a conservative in any sense. he's a central european right winger. the interesting thing they're going to make america again importing -- they don't like imports but they're going to import this doctrine from europe. while the republican party goes full tammy wynette, standing by their man they look ridiculous. a minion on the congressional committee all democrats who received any money from al franken's pact should send it back because al franken is unacceptable. few days after that, republicans are all in on a million more dollars or more tore sent to the sexual predator. why? they say well it's almost like a knee reflex. it's the judiciary. now frankly, i have problems.

the people of alabama are worried about the construction of the commerce clause and the development of the privacy right and all the other matters. the judiciary is just a phrase now. >> yeah. >> but it's to cover up what is essentially visceral and tribal. >> so why? we had evangelicals voting for trump. we're looking at an election in alabama which, yeah, roy moore could win. in fact, i think for political analysts who really follow this, chances are he will. why? >> you know why 2016? you're asking the same question of last year. why did trump carry pennsylvania? a reasonable state, a reasonable state. >> you only say that because it's your home state. >> i know but it's reasonable. my brother, charlie, called me up that morning and said i never have seen more people coming to the polls with walkers. the older people came out because of the abortion issue. they come, in the suburbs, came out to vote against a

pro-choice -- >> immigration. they had seen their country -- they believe they saw their country slipping away for decades. >> these value issues are very powerful with people. they endure. elections are cyclical. values questions are serial. they'll continue to vote this way. you better pay attention to it. it's going to drive a lot of these elections. >> you worked for tip o'neill. >> right. >> pretty tough guy. this is what i don't understand -- willie was talking about this last hour. if somebody came after me while in congress or in the white house, i made sure that it was not worth their while and that they would never want to do it again. and, by the way, most people i knew acted the same way. as willie points out this morning, mitch mcconnell goes ahead and the republicans meekly kind of get back in line for roy moore only to have steve bannon go on the stage, trash them,

with trump's blessing and mitch this morning will be quite like paul ryan will be quiet, just like all of them will be quiet. >> why? >> i don't understand. >> it's political. >> it can't be. >> you punch back. but they don't. why are they -- >> the job of mitt romney will be if he gets back into this -- gets into the senate -- though trump made it pretty clear he doesn't want him in the senate -- will be to play bob corker's role. but the role of the majority leader is not to be the -- the role of the majority leader is to work with the president. they know their role in life and they're playing this. >> but that was tip o'neill's job, too, with jimmy carter. he wrote in his autobiography and he made carter pay for it for months.

i read his book. okay. well, at least he's honest. >> that was leo diehl, one of the guys working for him. >> it seems the more the republicans back down, the more -- you know, paul ryan. we played a clip of mika the morning that paul ryan endorsed donald trump. she said what are you doing? he's going to run over you. you've got nothing for this. he will never respect you. it was that obvious. and yet paul ryan keeps letting him roll over him. >> well, what they all say is we have to keep our head down and pass our agenda. the agenda turns out to be, at this point, the mexicans are not building a wall because the wall is not being built. obamacare has not been repealed and replaced. the trillion dollar infrastructure program is still a hypothetical. but, they say, they turn to their base and say we've cut corporate taxes a lot. i would like to be a fly on the wall in the room when that

conversation occurs. it all comes down to the agenda, which has shrunk considerably. one thing chris just said about abortion. if the democratic party would give its member ace little wiggle room to support, say, no abortions after 20 weeks, that's 90 some percent of abortions or before that, that would be more permissive than in most european countries. >> i think secretary clinton got hurt on that, by being for late term and defending it. >> her party in the primaries, you mean? she certainly wouldn't have been hurt during the election. i think one of the -- if doug joents loses in alabama one of the big mistakes that he made was going on the air, i think this summer, with chuck todd and chuck todd said hey, abortion, this is alabama. are you for late-term abortion

ban, 20 weeks? you got some cut-off point and twice doug jones -- he gave him two chances. twice jones just gave a speech on i'll never get in the way of women to make the decisions they have a right to make. he was, thereby, defining himself in alabama as radical and extreme in his views. alabama is one of the most pro-life states, they say, in the country. i was shocked by that. i think he would be doing better if he hadn't made that mistake. i think he took the party line planned parenthood i'm doing it your way. >> roe v. wade, i don't know how it came about, all those arguments but it was an exquisite political decision. most people are open to early term abortion. they may have values against it but okay i can live with that. late term has always been the hottest issue politically.

cruel political terminology, this late term thing never got a candidate a single vote and all it did was cause trouble politically. >> what will this party look like, peggy, and why would the party get behind roy moore? why would they tow the line? >> in alabama itself, i think a lot of people don't believe the allegations and reports about roy moore. some of them, because they don't believe anything that's in the press. some of them because it's very convenient when you're for somebody to not believe the charges made against them. look, i think there's two big -- there's so much chatter in america and so much talk and small talk, we're forgetting that there are two big silences going on. one is the democratic party economically and in terms of foreign affairs stands for. they never talk about that. we never hear about it. it's never can considered. the other is what the republican party economically and in terms

of foreign affairs stands for as a party, as opposed to the trumpian moment and trump's decisions, which change, which can can go back and forth. we're doing jerusalem. we're not doing jerusalem. we'll wait six months. you would think during the trump era, both parties would take some time to think of their meaning down the road while he's having his daily national drama. >> george, the initial response people forget now from the white house aim to the allegations against roy moore came from kellyanne conway and her quote was something like no senate seat is worth the life of a child. and mitch mcconnell went in front of the cameras and said i believe the women. they're on the record suggesting and saying pretty clearly, actually, that this behavior is abhorrent and unacceptable. now they've come around a couple of weeks later and support this

candidate. wasn't mitt romney correct that if this man is put in the u.s. senate it will be a stain not only on the republican party but on the nation. you can't go back from supporting a man who, if he makes it into the senate, united states senator accused of pedophilia. >> every republican candidate from coast to coast will be asked, what do you think about this guy? and, actually, the charges of sexual predation are distracting us from something that happened earlier, twice thrown off the bench in alabama for his dislike of the american constitution, his refusal to -- actually theocratic that his religious conscience trumps the constitution. we've forgotten about all that. we've forgotten that before the questions of his predatory sexual behavior came up, he was

disqualified. >> even before that. that's a great point that george makes. even before that, i remember saying there's no way conservatives should vote for roy moore. lot of conservatives online were saying he was unfit because he had been kicked off the bench twice. >> conservatives keep saying the judiciary is all important, judiciary, judiciary. here is a man who has discredited the judiciary. twice. >> let's talk about politics that we're all more familiar with. ask any catholic priest what it did to him when the priest scandal hit. every priest felt vulnerable to the charge where people looked at them, are you one of them? ask the republicans, do you want to be part of that? every cheap shot democrat in the country, and there are a few of them out there, will use it in every campaign. you're one of the crips and the bloods, basically. it's great in the movie three billboards, this woman is so

into a catholic priest. they have a lot in california. if you're a member of the cribs and bloods you're responsible for cribs and bloods behavior. if why your a catholic priest, you're responsible for their bafr. if you're a republican senator, you'll be responsible for them. hit the other side where they're weak. they're going to have a guy in their caucus, meeting with them, giving them committee assignments, having pages and interns and all that responsibility and vulnerability thrown at him. >> fantastic. >> this guy will be walking around the senate and every page will be whispering, hey, any problem with that guy? >> are we allowed to get near him? >> don't you think they'll be talking? >> i was an intern in 16 years old when strom thurman was there. >> then you know. >> i know! >> don't get on the band wagon with that. >> later today, president trump tends to announce that the united states now recognizes jerusalem as the capital of

israel. joining us live outside the old city in east jerusalem, co-host of "morning joe," first look, ayman mohyeldin. what's the atmosphere on the ground there? >> reporter: mika, that's a very good question. it's a very tense atmosphere right now. everything is going to come down really to how president trump delivers this statement. this is, in some ways, a diplomatic crisis, potential diplomatic crisis. that is of the doing of the president himself. it has been a longstanding policy of the united states not to touch the issue of jerusalem or move the embassy here. in the last 24 hours, world leaders are reacting and the mood on the street here is very tense. on one hand you have the israeli side. security has been beefed up. on the other side, palestinian authority calling for massive protests and demonstrations. they've labeled it a day of anger over what could be an explosive decision by the u.s. president to recognize jerusalem

as the capital of israel. going back to the original point it is going to come down to how president trump deliver this is statement. will he be very provocative in the language he uses? will he make it sound like there is no open door for jerusalem to be part of a palestinian state? that has a lot of people here somewhat concerned, particularly on the palestinian or arab streets, so to speak. they don't necessarily have a lot of confidence that diplomatic niceties will be finessed in that speech to find wiggle room to say we'll be committed to the peace process and see where this goes from here. the mayor of jerusalem here celebrations are expected later this evening. we are expecting them to have trump's speech broadcast in various parts of the city. that is something that we're going to see throughout the day. and the israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu saying this will be an historic moment for israel's claims to this city. mika, joe? >> ayman, thank you.

>> george, this looks like it's the latest in the line of donald trump promises. just wait two weeks. i'm going to do this two weeks from now. i'm going to build the wall. it's going to get built. what he did in the military. transgenders in the military. puts out a tweet. >> two weeks. >> here he's not really doing anything other than destabilizing the middle east with this announcement. >> well, he's not disrupting the peace process because there is no peace process, unless you count what jared kushner is doing, the trust fund guy comes to washington, buys a house and says i'm going to fix the middle east next. there is no process to disrupt at this point. and there is something to be said for saying if we're going to have a peace process going forward, let's be clear and realistic about what is not negotiable. and i think it is fair to say that as long as israel say democracy and responsive to israel's public opinion, they're not going to divide jerusalem

period. you might as well say that going in. >> i don't agree. the only hope for peace is to give a portion of east jerusalem, maybe all of t that's what clinton tried to do at the end of his second term. if you don't give the palestinians hope that they can have national integrity and a capital where they believe it should be, you're going to have an unending problem. by the way, deaths are coming now because of this. you can just bet the next few weeks we'll have hell to pay for this totally erratic decision by this president. every party has had the white house since 48 has recognized to be careful over there. i lived over there, right at the damascus gate where that picture was. everything is intricate over there. bethlehem is intricate with the armenian church, catholic church. everything is intricate. the guys with the ultra religious people and the jewish community, arab call to prayer, it's all intermingled and intricately combined. to mess that up now makes no sense. it's not in america's interest.

i don't know whose interest it is. >> when you make a decision like this, a big change, there should be a reason beyond, oh, but i mentioned it in the campaign and i said i would do it. so now i must do it. you make a big change like this, you have to come forward and make the case that it makes something better. that it will improve any situation there, that it will make people safer, that it will add to that decision in any way. without that, it just appears to be another antic decision made without full information. >> a couple more points in alabama. don't think this isn't related to alabama next week. it is related. evangelicals with their crazy ideas about israel which is, i don't know, mythical. they don't understand the situation over there, how tricky it is ethnically and tribally. they don't care because it's a religious belief. trump is playing into that this

week. you watch. >> the first time i spoke at apec in broward county, right after we got elected in '94. it was a hostile audience. they fired one negative question after another. i said, you hate us. but you don't realize most of us from the south, we don't support israel because we think it's the geopolitical right thing to do. we support israel because we think we're going to hell if we don't. so, you guys should like us. we're on your side. we will be with you until the end. >> i agree with what you just said. >> but there is -- this is something. and it's a guy that went to sunday school in marrietta, georgea tuscaloosa, alabama, meridian, mississippi, in pensacola, florida. you know what? you believe it. and i had a professor in college that said would you believe some people even support israel for

religious reasons? and everybody laughed. i just kind of -- >> so you had that moment in 1994, which is just about when apec and other groups started making serious out reach to american evangelicals, as if somebody had told them something is going on there. >> interesting. >> dangerous coalition. >> chris matthews, george will, thank you both for being on here this morning. "hardball," 7:00 eastern time interi like the octave. >> and i gave heidi a new name. pryzbyla. >> every night at 7:00, mika goes, be quiet, be quiet. see what chris has to say. >> he watches. >> i have to -- >> chickens in connecticut? >> i have to watch because if i don't, she'll say you should have seen what chris said. >> you have to watch. you love it. >> can i say something about chris' book? it's like a palate cleanser for

this moment we are in. you can dip into at night. a guy who had serious beliefs that he had to struggle toward understanding and accepting and putting forward. it's about idealism. and i actually think you deliberately put a little plan for the democratic party, you snuck it into that book, saying be human again. >> that sneaker. >> and the other sorbet at the end of the night, victoria will, "born back." >> it's actually amazing. i love it. >> local independent book store. >> good christmas gift. >> incredible christmas gift. few people, if any, had a bigger role in donald trump's victory than cory lewandowski. former campaign manager joins us next. you're watching ""morning joe." we'll be right back.

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he's a good guy. he's a friend of mine. i think it's time now for a different kind of campaign. i'm really proud of him. he did a great job. we're going to go a little bit of a different route. >> joining us now, donald trump's former campaign manager, corey lewandowski, co-author of the book "let trump be trump," inside story to his rise to the presidency. jumping off the title, corey, do we really want to let trump be trump? >> you know trump. do you really want to let -- >> come on. >> i came to the trump organization before he was ever a candidate. what i saw at that time was a man who had been successful at almost everything he has attempted, which was television, books, new york real estate and what my job never was -- and i don't think anybody's job should be -- is to try to change somebody to make them who they're not. i saw my role as campaign manager as a person who was on

an amazing race horse. one of the greatest winners of all time. and i wanted to give him the chance to be successful, put him in play. >> what about now? so what about now, now that he's in the white house? where he undercuts himself all the time? shouldn't he listen to advice once in a while? should he be disciplined? >> joe, he listens. what we saw a few months ago was president trump cut a deal with chuck schumer and nancy pelosi to take the debt ceiling issue and move it down to the end of the year. now we have to deal with that issue. that was a bipartisan issue which, by the way, members of his own party didn't support. >> he decided out of the blue to insult chuck and nancy. >> that didn't blow apart then. what happened now is it should be the obligation of the leadership of both parties when the president has a meeting at the white house, to come and listen. i can never remember a time when barack obama was president, when paul ryan or mitch mcconnell said i'm not coming to the white house to at least have a conversation. and, joe, you know d.c. better

than anybody. the hyper partisan nature, you have to be able to at least sit down in the room and have a conversation. >> sure you do. it's hard when you have a president that insults people all the time. >> i want to ask you about the campaign, though. i want to ask you -- and i hope you'll tell the truth. >> always. >> okay, because i know the truth. so this is a leading question. how do you feel -- willie, what month is this? >> feels like december. >> it's december 6th. big day tomorrow. december 6th. how do you feel december 6th, 2017, seeing paul manafort, getting in the trouble that paul manafort is getting into, and would you like to say anything to donald trump's children who ceremoniously dumped you? they pressured their father into it and got somebody who is now probably going back to jail. how do you feel? >> look, i write about this in the book and i'm very candid. being fired on june 20th of

2016, right? i write about this in the book. i thought it was the worst day of my life. i'm fired from a campaign where i helped steer a candidate, win 38 primaries and caucuses, more votes than any candidate had ever received and i'm unceremoniously asked to leave the campaign and i didn't even know why. >> by the children. why? what did they have against you? >> you know what? they wanted to take the campaign in a different direction. they brought in the great delegate hunter, the guy before the fax machine was the last one to be involved in a contested republican convention 1976. they bring the dinosaur out and say here is the great delegate hunter. here is what we now know about paul manafo trchlt. and what we should have known ahead of time. he was under a fisa warrant and after he left the campaign, he was under a fisa warrant. his activity of ten years preceding his tenure at the campaign put him under indictment under mueller and very likely he's facing a number of serious charges, under house

arrest. we saw the story that he was trying to collude with some russian to try to write an op-ed against a paper. paul is a bad guy. let's not kid ourselves. justice will happen. that's how the system works. >> what does it say about the people who pushed you out for him? what's it say about the kids? >> what's it say about the president? donald trump's judgment was at that moment donald trump accepted that advice and embraced paul manafort at that moment. he's basically a criminal. >> because his kids said so. >> you can look back at any number of employees who probably didn't work out the way that people wanted them to. if you could do it all over again right now, would paul manafort have been brought into the campaign? absolutely not. did he have a specific role at the time to go and manage the delegate selection process, those 1327 people to make sure that trump would be the republican nominee? sure he did. no one else knew how to do it. >> and, peggy, the kids wanted

michael flynn, too. >> love michael flynn. >> what job do you want, ivanka said. >> let me throw a few quick ones. first of all, you've known him for years. you know mr. trump very well. tell us how you view, you know, people in washington and new york talk a lot about is he sane, is he fully stable? does he have a mature mind? is he all functioning there? so there's that. second thing, do you have any regrets about helping to elect him president? and what will the meaning of his presidency be? what is the purpose of this presidency? >> look, when you look back at what the candidate was talking about, his performance on those debate stages, the american people saw donald trump and they saw a fighter. they voted for him on election day. >> we get that. >> nobody is arguing. >> questioning his ability to perform. that's what he has done his entire life. do i have any regrets? no. i spent almost two years of my life away from my family, my

young kids, to go and do something, change the direction of the country because i thought it was the right thing to do. i believe it's the right thing to do. the alternative of four years or eight years under the clinton kabul again was unacceptable to me. everybody knew she was going to be the democrat and i wanted to bring somebody in washington to help them get them there. the staff did one-tenth of 1%. he did 90% of the work. peggy, in 30 years they've lied to us in washington, republicans and democrats alike have increased our deficit, made our nation less safe. i wanted to see an outsider, not the same politicians who had been there forever do and say -- >> that's great. i get that. willie, doesn't president trump lie all the time? i'm just curious. >> he has and people who represent him have before. corey, if you were still working for president trump, would you have advised him to endorse roy moore for the united states senate? >> here is what i think. the political operation in the white house needs to be

significantly overhauled. the president has gotten bad advice. i'm very critical. >> bad advice on roy moore? >> in general. >> how about tweeting? >> tweeting is one thing. roy moore is a different -- let's get back to the policies of why donald trump was elected, starting with health care. i think it was a strategic, fundamental mistake. >> it's hard to get past the policies when you have somebody -- >> but joe -- >> when you have somebody that the republicans say is a child molester. >> joe, the president has to deliver on his campaign promises. that's first and foremost. the people of alabama will decide. >> let me put it another way. do you think it's a good idea to have roy moore in the united states senate? >> look, let me tell you what would happen. >> yes or no. >> we have a thing in new hampshire called street justice. i don't know roy moore, the women who have accused him. i would let the voters decide who they want. we need to apply that standard across the board for everybody, which means elected officials who have been accused of doing things, groping women and being inappropriate while in office,

not before they were in office. so let the voters decide. should al franken step down because he was fondling women while they were asleep? i think that's a disgusting thing. i don't see the call for that amongst the democratic party. should the republican and democratic members of the house who settled lawsuits with taxpayer money -- >> we're talking about a case in front of us right now. the president of the united states has used the power of their office to say yes, roy moore, who has been accused of pedophilia, whether or not you believe these women, said this man should be in the united states senate despite that. do you agree with that? >> that's not for me to decide. that's for the people of alabama. >> you're okay if he's elected? >> i didn't say that. >> if the people of alabama say it's what they want it's good to have him in the senate? >> we have to be very cautious between someone being accused and someone pleading guilty to a crime. people under the law have an opportunity to have their case

heard. it should be litigated, adjudicated. if roy moore committed a crime, he should be held accountable. >> you don't take the women at their word? >> that's not what i said. >> what's the difference there? >> if someone has commit aid crime there's a process. that person should be allowed due process. al franken said yes, i did grope women while they were asleep as a joke. here are the funny pictures. it's not funny at all. where is the outcry? where is the outrage from the democratic party that a member of their u.s. senate, who is supposed to be representing the people of this great country, 100 u.s. senators, the best we can do is have a man who publicly said i'm groping women while they're asleep and still have the right to serve? >> you do speak the truth. you write honesty in your books. i'm asking you from your gut. you mentioned your kids. how do you feel about roy moore being a united states senator? >> i don't know roy moore. >> you've heard all the stories. >> i have. >>. but you're asking me to make a

determines on women i've never met, a person i never met. >> read the paper, corey. >> it's fake news. >> "the washington post" stories about roy moore are fake news? >> i don't know but i saw a story that mueller investigation subpoenaed deutsche -- fake news. >> corey, you're drifting into -- i'm asking you about a specific case. do you think roy moore should be a united states senator? >> i don't have that vote. it's not for me to say. >> your political adviser, corey. >> i am. >> would you advise the president to endorse roy moore or not? if you were in the white house right now, advising donald trump, what would your advice to him be, endorse or not endorse? >> look, the president makes his own decisions. what i would say is -- >> here is a way to put it. if you were looking for a senatorial campaign to advise and someone said roy moore wants you, would you join that campaign right now?

>> look, i wouldn't do that. and let me just say -- let me be very clear. there are people who -- i've been one of them, willie -- who have been accused of things and the media had an outroar over it, that weren't true. i had the opportunity finally to be litigated about it. the damage that people do by making accusations and the media hype around that is very, very serious. all i ask for is sometimes, just sometimes we need to let the justice department do their job and litigate this the way it should be done. >> final yes, there's a line in here. steve baninform on laughed when he first heard donald trump was running for president. >> true. >> bannon was not a believer? >> i don't believe that anybody was a believer in 2007, eight, nine, 12. >> has he been a destructive force around the president? >> he wants to take the republican party in a direction that is not beholden to the establishment. what that means for steve is moving the party away from the mitch mcconnells of the world

and moving it closer to the mike lees and ted cruzes of the world. >> is steve bannon using donald trump to promote himself, try to get traffic back up at his website? >> i don't think so. i think he has a pretty high profile on his own, a big job as director of breitbart news. >> are you concerned about some of his racist comments in the past, his push for white nationalism, what happened in charlottesville? >> i know steve. i've never known him to be a racist. >> any concerns about what he does? >> i don't judge steve what he does. what i do judge is people have to live with and make their own decisions. i'm not accountable to them. i'm accountable to me and my own family. i try to be the best person i can be. i had a small seat, front row seat for an amazing campaign. i'm a kid from lowell, massachusetts, who grew up poor, didn't go to an ivy league school and had the privilege to be part of something. to this day, know that the person who was elected, the

president of the united states, offered me an opportunity to come into the oval office, a place i thought i would never have a privilege to be, and see an amazing building where world decisions are made every day. the book about this is the greatest country in the world, guys like me, guys like you, who didn't grow up with privilege, had an opportunity to do things that they never thought they could do. >> it was an amazing campaign you led. is it an amazing presidency? >> it will be. >> is it the candidate you were pushing for? >> texas reform has to get done. if you don't follow through on the promises you made on the campaign, you can't be a success. tax reform is the first one to get done. >> the book is let trump be trump: the inside story of his rise to the presidency. corey lewandowski. >> dodging questions of the

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when did the president know that michael flynn lied to the fbi? was it when the announcement was made friday or that? >> again, i'm not aware of the specifics. but i would refer you to john dowd for that specific question. >> any plans to pardon general flynn, mr. president? >> thank you very much. >> any plans to pardon general flynn, mr. president? >> thank you. >> thank you. >> joining us, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of virginia. former senior fbi official. and aide to both jim comey and robert mueller. and until last month served as acting administrator of the d.e.a. until he stepped down in protest of the trump administration. he's now a law enforcement analyst for nbc news. great to have you back on the show again. >> thank you for having me. >> a lot of attacks towards bob mueller from not only republicans, but also,

unfortunately, from some newspapers and outlets that i've read my entire life attacking bob mueller's integrity. what's your read on that? >> two thoughts. one, he doesn't care. he pays no attention to this. it doesn't matter. he is mission-oriented. and he's going to do his job. number two, attacking bob mueller's integrity is absolutely fruitless and silly. i work for the man. i know the man. i know mike knows him too. unimpeachable integrity. and i would stake my own reputation on that. >> chuck, when you saw last week that michael flynn had reached a plea agreement with bob mueller, what did you think exactly? did you think that then general flynn has something to provide bob mueller? it was a plea deal, or what was your reaction to it? >> probably. not everybody has something to offer. and you often see cooperational language in almost every plea agreement. but it's hard to imagine that general flynn doesn't have something to offer.

he was, you know, close to the major players in this case. and so i'm confident that they are spending lots and lots of time with the general. probing what he knows, asking a bunch of questions. we'll see how fruitful it is. but you can bet, willie, that they're going to ask lots of questions. >> chuck, the president and one of his many efforts at undermining agencies and people has tried to undermine the fbi, the federal bureau of investigatio investigation. as a former u.s. attorney and working for the fbi, your view on the fbi being in tatters. >> it's not, mike. and here's how i think about it. this is a thing that's been around for more than 100 years. it will be around for many hundreds of years more. it attracts the best and brightest men and women in the country. their service-oriented. these are exactly the people you would want living next door to you. and here's another thing that i can offer, because i can't prove sitting here that it's fine.

but i invite people to go into any federal courthouse in america. those doors are open to the public. and watch the fruits of the fbi's labor. watch an fbi special agent testify at trial. listen to what she says. look at the cases that she puts together. and you can do this in spokane, you can do this in tacoma, you can do this in albany and you can do this in birmingham. you can go anywhere in the country and look at their work. and they are good. they're not in tatters. >> so, chuck, the mueller investigation is taking place in a deeply charged political environment. maybe half the country is hoping, find stuff and get this guy. get the president. the other half is thinking, it's all political. it's all nonsense, it's the deep state. it's the swamp. do you know if inside mr. mueller himself and the people around him have a sharply sensitive sense of how they must

really comport themselves in a way that is judicious, inarguably fair-minded. that they cannot be looked at as a political operation? that some political charges made against them have, i think, damaged them a little bit. the texting fellow and the people who have made contributions to democratic candidates, et cetera. what is the feeling inside mueller's operation about the charged nature of the world into which they will one day send a report? >> well, they know they have to drive down the middle of the road. they're not saints and they're not perfect. but they are judicious and they are fair-minded. and i think what you saw when bob mueller removed that one agent from the team is exactly that. an attempt to drive down the middle of the road. the other way i think about it, in the end, this isn't going to

be decided by what half of america thinks or what half of america doesn't think. if they go to trial, the only people that matter are the 12 jurors sitting in the box. those are the people who are going to decide a matter in the end. and there's no question in my mind that wherever they try the case right now looks like would be the district of columbia. they'll find 12 fair-minded jurors. so i'm not worried about obtaining a fair outcome. and i'm not worried about the people who are involved in the process. these are good, honest, decent people, and they're trying hard to do a difficult thing. >> all right, chuck rosenberg. thank you so much for coming back on the show. still ahead, steve bannon's campaign appearance for roy moore. turned out to be a tour de force on who he's against. we'll play more of bannon's attacks against mitt romney and his children. plus, the editor-in-chief of "time" magazine is here with their choice for person of the year. and the reasoning behind their pick. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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this post war, rules-based, international order that all the huh fa-lutein people in the "wall street journal" and on "morning joe," those geniuses, right? right? every day they're on that -- they fail to understand, that's an inextricably linked network of commercial relationships, trade deals, capital markets and security guarantee by, guess who? the sons and daughters of this audience. >> couldn't really follow exactly -- >> the sons and daughters -- what, our sons and daughters are running? >> i didn't realize we had that much power. >> we're geniuses, right? but the rest of that made no sense. >> i think he's saying we're all members of the illuminati. >> well, i know my son jack is very powerful. >> yeah. >> he's 9. but he sees in control -- i

don't know if you've seen -- there are a couple things going down right now. and well you can read about it in "the financial times." >> can't decipher. >> how old is george? >> george is 8. >> by the time they're 10, they're going to own half the banks in europe. there's no doubt about it. and jack also, he's working very hard right now on coming -- you've got to come over the top. i always tell him, you've got to come over the top. because where you go -- you've got to finish through, and as you get it -- right there, you've got to finish there if you want to throw strikes. because a lot of times he comes like that. and wanders off. >> yeah. >> like over there. >> sort of like that did. >> we're talking about two things over dinner. one, follow through. >> yeah. >> right? let the momentum take you down and you go right to the strike zone. and two, howie is going to seize deutsch bank over the next six months. >> politely, knowing jack. >> jack is extraordinarily polite. but, like, mergers and

acquisitions is his thing. kind of the -- wind up delivery pitch. what about george? >> so distracted with the pitching, because he's thinking about the m & a. >> no, no, no. that just comes to him automatically. >> that was an unbelievable performance last night by mr. bannon. i know we're going to play more of. >> we're talking about that part. >> i couldn't follow. >> to have him attack mitt romney -- >> yeah. >> and mitt romney's missionary work. >> leave us aside. >> and i think even mitt romney's family. and attack one of the most decent men i've ever met in public service. just shows you how horrified he is. how frightened he is. at the prospect of mitt romney running in utah and getting into the senate. i mean, you can -- there is such easy tells. he's -- last night was more about mitt romney than roy

moore. from what i've seen. and he attacked -- he just -- attacked everything about mitt romney, which how interesting that he's attacking mitt romney because he was a missionary in the 1960s. and yet you look at the guy that he worships, steve bannon, donald trump. five deferments for bone spurs. while he's playing football and golfing and -- it's -- unbelievable. >> well, we have mike barnicle with us. and national affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc, john hallman, former aide to george w. bush, white house state department's elise juniorman. columnist david ignatius. and let's continue with that thought. here's more of what steve bannon, what he said as he plunged even deeper into alabama's senate race. >> you hid behind your religion.

you went to france to be a missionary while guys were dying in rice patties in vietnam. do not talk to me about honor and integrity. you had -- you ran for commander-in-chief. you had five sons. not one day of service in afghanistan and iraq. we have 7,000 dead and 52,000 casualties. and where were the romneys during those wars? you have the guts to go on the stage of a man that served in vietnam, and you expect us to believe honor and integrity? judge roy moore has more honor and integrity in that pinky finger than your entire family has in his whole dna! >> so john heilemann, what's mr. bannon trying to do right there? >> i didn't hear a lot of reaction. >> no, i'm just curious. what do you think? what's the strategy there? >> romney is, among those who yesterday decided as the rest of the republican party has decided, in one way or another,

to meekly and sheepishly go along in some way with donald trump having thrown in his lot with roy moore, the republican national committee now is behind roy moore. you've got a lot of these senators who called for disowning moore who are now kind of saying, well, i guess we don't have any choice but to go along. you've got mitt romney, who is still out there plugging away, fighting the good fight against roy moore. and i guess he is now the most prominent large-scale national republican leader who is still leading the charge against roy moore. so bannon sees him as the enemy du jour. i'm struck mostly by what you said, joe, which is amazing for a person who is the person who claims credit for putting donald trump in the white house. >> right. >> to be attacking anyone for having not served in vietnam. given donald trump's record on service. >> defying logic. >> so donald trump, in 1968, stood at 6'2", athletic build. played football, tennis, squash,

golf. his medical history was not blemished. >> loved golf. >> other than he had a routine appendectomy when he was age 10. and yet, willie geist, donald trump got five deferments. got deferments for bone spurs. and the "new york times" reports that on the day he graduated from college, from an ivy league college after getting five deferments. on the day he graduated from college, 40 americans were killed in vietnam. on that one day alone. and here we have in alabama steve bannon daring to talk about deferments? >> yeah. four of those are for college, for president trump. one of those was for bone spurs. beyond the obvious hypocrisy of that point about military service, you watch that rally and you wonder what the purpose was. were we there to elect roy moore if you're steve bannon, or were you there to serve some purpose that's about you? and to me that was the purest

distillation of where american politics has gotten that i have seen. which is that your political opponents aren't just wrong, they're evil. they're corrupt. they're your enemy. >> well, and -- >> this is where we are in steve bannon's world, and he was talking about a vote for doug jones being a vote for the clinton agenda. there is no clinton agenda. she's at home in the woods in chappaqua. there is no clinton agenda. he was making up boogie men. it was a bizarre performance. >> well, and he said it wasn't about roy moore. it wasn't about donald trump. he's trying to distract. but then he makes it about mitt romney. and, again, you have -- here you have five deferments from donald trump. and 40 dead in service. the day he graduated. and i think what strikes me the most is, just how stupid both donald trump and steve bannon think people in alabama are. those people in the audience. they think that they're stupid.

because those people in the audience, they're smart people. they know that donald trump had five deferments. they probably even know that 40 people died on the day that donald trump -- >> and their -- alabama, very smart. great group. down there a lot. >> that donald trump, the day he graduated from an ivy league college, because his millionaire dad let him get into that ivy league college. helped him get into that -- wasn't really smart enough to get into ivy league college. just wasn't. his dad gets him into an ivy league college, and he's a playboy there. and on the day he graduates, 40 people die in vietnam. people in alabama know that, mike. >> well, you know, last night's performance was predictable. it was depressing. it was steve bannon playing a part he's carved out for himself. and it plays to what is happening in our politics. both sides, actually. but especially the republican side, led by president trump and steve bannon. and it's their ability to home

in on resentment. they know how to extract resentment. >> yeah, but middle east. 98% -- i want everybody to breathe this fact in. here this guy is coming in out of nowhere. neither he nor donald trump are republicans. in 2012, mitt romney got 98% of the republican vote in alabama. in 2012. >> yes. he also won 60% of the entire state, democrats and republicans, whereas roy moore, in his election that year in alabama, only won 51%. so based on 2012, mitt romney might actually be more popular in general election than roy moore. this, though, last night was just a display that was all about steve bannon. he's coming in, he's an outsider, goldman sachs banker, lecturing all of these alabama people about how all the globalists are out to get you. it just is incredibly -- incredible irony to think that

people in alabama are that dumb, where they don't see through that this outsider is coming down to lecture. >> steve bannon does think, unfortunately, and he's dead wrong, that people in alabama are so stupid that they'll let a guy that worked in hollywood -- with our friend jeff quantnice at the firm, worked in hollywood for years, worked at goldman sachs, and claims to have made a gazillion dollars off of seinfeld. that this guy is going to come to alabama, mika, as some, you know -- >> favorite son. >> yeah, a favorite son. a sort of man of the people. when if you ask certainly anybody that serves in alabama what is the greatest -- what's one of the greatest developments in alabama's economy over the past decade? mercedes-benz coming to tuscaloosa. the people of tuscaloosa doing such a great job with

mercedes-benz, that mercedes-benz actually said it was one of the most productive, profitable plants in the world. and i think they're now at their second or third class of mercedes cars that they make in tuscaloosa, alabama. because alabama does such a good job. so, you see, his problem is, he thinks it's 1962 in alabama. and you know why? that is because he's a yankee who worked at goldman sachs. he's a yankee. he worked in hollywood. and he's just pretend -- he doesn't know the culture there. any more than a guy from -- wall street would know the culture. you know, somewhere else. >> so -- >> in north dakota. >> does he think it's 1972 or does he think it's the primary, where it appeared to have worked? i mean, a lot of these tactics worked. >> no, he thinks it's donald trump's america. >> well. >> that's what he thinks.

>> what is donald trump's america, mika? other than -- >> very sad place. >> donald trump's america is actually an america where two out of three americans disapprove of the president. donald trump's america is an america where we have a president who has the lowest approval ratings in the history of this country. donald trump's america is where, actually, we're moving to a place where one out of three republicans -- >> i don't disagree with this. >> now, elise, are saying they want somebody else to run for president in 2020, other than donald trump. donald trump's america is a place where most americans are offended by donald trump. >> well, and to thread the needle between republicans who want a republican agenda and they want to see success with a republican majority, but they just have -- they aren't sure these days. they don't approve of the trump constant antics. that's the needle that i wonder

how we thread. still ahead on "morning joe," president trump keeps a campaign pledge about israel. sort of. he's recognizing jerusalem as that country's capital without actually moving the embassy there. we're going to ask -- >> it's going to happen in two weeks. or six months. >> fantastic. >> or actually, may never -- it's not going to happen. >> we'll ask a long-time diplomat what it means for america's role in the region. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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amid protests and the threat of violence, today president trump is set to announce that the united states now recognizes jerusalem as the capital of israel. but for the time being, the president will delay moving the embassy there. instead keeping it in tel aviv. u.s. officials tell nbc news that the president recently expressed, quote, serious frustration that he would not be following through on his campaign promise to move the

embassy. that led to his inner circle to come up with ways for the president to appear to follow through while still signing the waiver that keeps the american compound where it currently is. the state department has issued a warning for diplomats in the region to take extra precautions for their safety, starting today. joining us now, former u.s. ambassador to nato and former state department spokesman, nicholas burns. he's professor of diplomacy and international relations at the harvard kennedy school of government. and in washington, former senior director and spokesperson for the national security council, former cia analyst and msnbc national security analyst, ned price. nick burns, we start with you. and david ignatius. what are some of the ramifications, pluses and minuses of this move? >> well, this is a major mistake. number one, every american president since harry truman, republican and democrat, has faced this issue.

and we're the custodian of the peace process, likely mediator. all have said, we're not going to get ahead of the israelis and palestinians and make a big concession, big determination, on one of the final status issues. number two, when the president makes his speech today, 1.6 billion muslims are going to disagree in the muslim world. it will diminish our world to work with them. third, i fear there's going to be violence. we've seen this in the past on this issue of jerusalem. holiest city for jews and christians, third holiest after mecca and medina. the palestinians already calling for demonstrations. we're going to see demonstrations against american embassies and violence. and fourth, you have to ask this question. why now? this is a major concession by the united states. a concession that no president has made before. we appear to be getting absolutely nothing in return for this concession. so why, when there aren't even negotiations right now.

mahmud abbas and netanyahu aren't working together. why make this concession now? i would say this is atrocious negotiating behavior by president trump. >> so david ignatius, we've been hearing now since the beginning of this administration that it's jared kushner who is going to bring peace to the middle east, who is working on that process right now. beyond this just being a symbolic, fulfilling of the campaign promise that donald trump made, what does this do to the peace process, such that it is? or the beginning of any negotiation? >> you know, willie, there really isn't a peace process to speak of now. what kushner has been trying to do is get some other new developments started. they have an idea about moving in gaza with help from egypt, the uae, other funders. and to try to make gaza, which has always been the messiest part of the palestinian territories something of a showcase for development. they have an idea of working with friendly countries in the

gulf, saudi arabia, the uae, to in some way move toward arab recognition of israel. i think all those moves, which kushner has been thinking about and working on, are going to be more difficult, because of this jerusalem announcement. as nick burns said, you don't really get much for this. what you lose is the role the united states has played as the mediator, as the broker of negotiations that reserves its own judgment on final status issues, such as the status of jerusalem until the end of negotiations. that's really why we have been the convener now for 50 years of attempts to resolve this dispute. and it's a significant loss of that negotiators' role imbalance. >> ned price jordan, uae, egypt. what's happening in those capitals today in this increasingly and daily more

volatile region? >> mike, i think that's precisely the concern. and that's one of the many reasons why it's been reported that secretaries mattis and tillerson voice private opposition to this move. this is not an america-first foreign policy gesture. this is a trump-first move. a move that is predicated on a crass political calculation and crass political campaign trail promise. this will not make the american people, diplomats, military personnel, private citizens, safer in the countries that you just mentioned. and as we saw, the consulate general in jerusalem put out a very stern message essentially telling americans in that part of the world that they should be on lockdown. we have seen similar broad warnings from the state department, warning of violence. this move will certainly lead to violence. the question is, what will be the ramifications of that violence, and just how deadly it will be. >> yeah. i mean, elise, the image in my mind is the president is this massive drunk bull, and the world is a china shop.

>> this to me seems to have more in terms of public diplomacy implications than practical implications. just because this isn't -- he's actually signing another six-month waiver to keep the embassy in tel aviv. he's saying he's moving it. but not really taking action, necessarily, to build a new embassy in jerusalem and start that process of shifting operations. so i don't get what we gain, other than just inflaming people. >> coming up on "morning joe" -- >> i will tell you, this is owned as a toy by jeff bezos, who controls amazon. amazon is getting away with murder tax wise. >> these massive tax cuts will be rocket fuel -- [ laughter ] little rocket man. rocket fuel for the american economy. [ cheers and applause ] he is a sick puppy.

>> president trump is no fan of amazon's jeff bezos or kim jong-un. both of whom could keep him off the cover of "time" magazine. all three in the running for person of the year. we'll reveal the big winner, straight ahead on "morning joe." so, that goal you've been saving for,

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in a moment, we'll bring in the editor of "time" magazine for the 2017 pick for person of the year. but first, let's go to bill karins, tracking wildfires in california. bill? >> good morning, joe and mika. another dangerous day and this continues through friday. yesterday the thomas fire was burning up to 150 structures and they have set off the record. they think that number is going to go up considerably when the final count comes in. this is some of the pictures from that destruction when 27,000 people were evacuated because the winds were fanning those flames. about one acre a second. it's up to 55,000 acres is that thomas fire. let me go and show you this map here. the southern california fire. we have the thomas fire here, the huge one and then the creek fire. here is los angeles, santa barbara, in the hills north of ther there. there is a new brushfire starting to move quickly, near a

highly populated area. we'll keep our eyes on that. as far as the other weather concerns across the country, rain along the gulf coast, could get some snow in west texas. and it's going to be a chilly rain today in the south coast. or the gulf coast. up to the north, the cold air coming into minneapolis and chicago. and this time of year when you get the cold air coming into the great lakes, that means we're going to kick off our lake-effect snow machines. our snow totals will be highest off the northern portions of lake michigan. and during the day tomorrow, our band set off lake erie and lake ontario, will dump the snow in the snow belts on the plateau and also south of buffalo. some areas could get up to 18 inches of snow. and then, by the way, thursday that cold continues. it looks like a very cold middle of december. but not too much snow. at least not yet for eastern half of the country. up next, "time's" person of the year! wait until you see who it is. or who they are. keep it here on "morning joe." so, that goal you've been saving for,

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you've got to love that music. joining us now, "time" magazine's editor-in-chief, edward belzenthal and kyra pollack here with the magazine's 2017 person of the year. the silence-breakers. that's a big one. we're going to talk about that. also with us for this conversation, the chief content officer at hers t magazine's joanna coles. where do we begin? why this one? i think i can answer for you. but go ahead. >> it was a tough year of so much disruption. but in the end, we were just overwhelmed by the velocity and sweep of this social change, which is moving faster certainly more than anything i've seen in my lifetime. >> and kyra, let's talk about who we see on the cover. we went through it so i know

you're all read in, and why. >> yeah. >> ashley judd. >> ashley judd, the voice of the weinstein -- she was the first person to come out on the record. taylor swift, who we all know, who went to court and testified against a radio deejay. susan fowler, from uber, and she wrote an incredible blog post talking about the harassment and the toxic environment in -- at uber. adomma ewu, california lobbyist, organized an open letter that 147 women signed and she said to us, you know, how can you call 147 women liars. it was about the masses that so many women at once. >> and finally? >> and we also have -- you know, it was really important to us to report not only the famous and the notable, but also the unknown. the women that represent a much larger swath of the culture. this is a strawberry-picker from

the fields in california. and, you know -- and then there's also one more person in that picture. >> ooh. >> on the bottom right. >> okay. >> it's an anonymous woman. >> oh! you see an arm there. >> you see an arm. she's also represented of a much bigger swath of women who can't come out for fear of reprisal, for fear of their lives. and she represents -- she is from a small town in the south. and she came -- she also is a representative. >> and joanna kohl's, are we witnessing a sea change. >> i think we are. clearly a watershed moment. and how unbelievably validating for the women on the cover of "time." these are people who tried to tell this story. ashley judd, for 15 years, and not being believed. and there's a huge story in the "new york times" this morning about harvey weinstein and the extraordinary lengths he went to to stop people writing about him. and all of the people that kind of knew. and yet it went on. and i think now we're at places

have got to change. and you see millennials who make up 25% of the work force now say we're not going to put up with any more. so the validation of people who complain, the whistleblowers is huge. >> show the pictures of everybody again, if you could, alex. so the question is, how -- we certainly have heard from a lot of people who have been harassed by famous people and media and in had politics and hollywood. how does this movement spread to middle america, where people who aren't working for the rich and famous get just as much justice from somebody that's harassing them in alabama? >> a lot of the women we interviewed were really inspired by the celebrities that came out. it validated their own stories. you know, a maid at a hotel. and, you know, it's -- it allowed them to have their own

voice and to really speak truth to power. and that -- we found that weinstein story and the people that came out in that story really validated a lot of other people's story across the country. and it's amazing that the weinstein story was two months ago. >> yeah. >> eight weeks. >> that's amazing, right? >> that is amazing. >> and that it took 15 years to write that story. that people knew this was going on and no journalist could get to the center of it. and the two female reporters at the "new york times" who finally broke the story, and "the new yorker" but the extraordinary lengths people went to to stop the stories from coming out is incredible. >> we have been having a lot of discussions on the set, and the guests we bring on, talking about sexual harassment, how it hit close to home here at nbc and talking about culture. and also very, very carefully trying to go into the gray area. there are obvious black and white cases. and all -- the enabling around

those cases are not only worth being looked at. it is absolutely the top priority that we take a look at culture of enablement. but doing a blog for the know your value website, about how we are witnessing a sea change. i'm just worried it turns into a tsunami, that washes away all of our progress if we're not careful. >> well, clearly, there are different categories of it. and you could probably argue that harvey weinstein is in his own, and clearly there are criminal investigations going on. and he may end up going to jail. and that's different to someone patting your ass in the office, unpleasant though that is. and to your point about people getting justice. i'm not even sure if people want justice when you're actually in the environment. what you want is for the harassment to stop. because you want to be able to go to work, do your work, and leave without someone making it unpleasant for you. and also every time you go in the room, thinking, oh, god, is this the day where i get whatever. you just want to go in, do it

and leave. justice is the icing. but i think people want to work in harassment-free zones. and that's what we all have to work towards. >> i think joe raises an important question that we spent a lot of time on in our package, how long-lasting and how far-reaching is this? so much attention in our business, entertainment business, very high-profile world. will it reach the middle of the country. will it reach very far down the org chart. what happens to women whose incomes depend heavily on tips and the ability to push away feels more constrained and the threats greater. and i think we don't know a lot of the answer to -- it's been sweeping and astonishing on the coasts and in the worlds we leave in. but there is still a lot to go. >> but when you see the consequences and the consequences are swift and people are losing their jobs, that is a deterrent. and i do think people will think twice about doing it. >> one of the ironies, as you look down the list here, is that the number two choice is

president trump, a man himself who has been accused of sexual harassment and assault by some women. what was the debate like inside the "time" conference room as you tried to figure out whether or not he ought to be number one or whether the me too movement should be? >> well, i'll just say, before the president tweeted on friday, we had already wrapped our cover shoot five days before that -- the cover we just presented. >> so it was complete nonsense then, him saying you called him. >> we always reach out for an interview, being the person of the year is not contingent on an interview. and we seriously, of course -- we always consider the president of the united states. always a strong contender to be person of the year. >> so what was that debate like between number one and number two? >> we start this process at the end of september. and the debate between donald trump, kim jong-un, xi jinping, this movement was vigorous. this movement hadn't started yet. by the end of october, we were really all just overwhelmed by

the velocity and sweep of this. >> and it continued to present itself in real-time. like, every day. so it's not a story that's passed. it's still happening. i also want to say that it's interesting when we think about the middle of the country and the world, you know. me too has spread to 85 countries in the first week. but also, the generations that have not come up through the work force yet. i think it's really interesting, the women that we profile, they are from all socioeconomic backgrounds. they are unknown, they are known, and they are of all different ages. and, you know, susan fowler, 26 years old, an engineer at uber. she wrote a blog post. very straight forward. it crossed a line, that behavior. and taylor swift, same thing. there is no emotion to it. they just said, there is a line that is crossed. this is not acceptable. and i think what happens to the 15-year-olds, the 5-year-olds, that are all coming up?

i mean, that's really where you're going to see the social change. and, you know, we were talking -- a couple months ago, we did a story about the glass ceiling-breakers. the women that are firsts. and you have madeline albright, who is the godmother of the first. she has her glass ceiling broach on when we interview her. and then you have monet davis, the first girl to pitch a shutout in the world series. and when we asked davis about the glass ceiling, she was like, what's the glass ceiling? >> exactly. >> and it was like she literally had never heard the term before. and i think, you know, when -- it just echos for me personally in the same story working on it, to be on the set with these shoots and interviews, it's the same kind of thing that the generations -- different people have different ways of acceptance, you know? and so it's something interesting, i think. >> well, incredible issue. edward and kyra, thank you very much for joining us for in this morning. >> thank you, guys.

>> 2017 person of the year is the silence-breakers. up next, a new harvard poll finds millennials are the largest generation in the u.s. electorate and overwhelmingly democratic. we'll talk about the implications of that, next on "morning joe." son who loves the finer things, this holiday season, i've asked for a luxurious new buick suv. ( ♪ ) fingers crossed. ( ♪ ) ring in the holidays with buick. get up to 20% below msrp on most 2017 luxury suv models. that's almost $7,400 on this buick enclave leather. experience the new buick this holiday season for remaining 2017s.

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you can do it. we can do this. at fidelity, our online planning tools are clear and straightforward so you can plan for retirement while saving for the things you want to do today. -whoo! while saving for the things was supposed to be a wake reup call for our government?sh people all across the country lost their savings, their pensions and their jobs. i'm tom steyer and it turned out that the system that had benefited people like me who are well off,

was, in fact, stacked against everyone else. it's why i left my investment firm and resolved to use my savings for the public good. but here we are nine years later and this president and the republican congress are making a bad situation even worse. they won't tell you that their so called "tax reform" plan is really for the wealthy and big corporations, while hurting the middle class. it blows up the deficit and that means fewer investments in education, health care and job creation. it's up to all of us to stand up to this president. not just for impeachable offenses, but also to demand a country where everyone has a real chance to succeed. join us. your voice matters. you went to france to be a missionary while guys were dying in rice pat eaties in vietnam. >> i was up to my knees in rice

patties, slugging it out! >> you have the guts to get on a stage with a man that served in vietnam. >> i did not wash my buddies die face-down in the muck so this trumpette -- can waltz around -- >> vietnam, man. >> there is a literal connection, dude. >> there isn't any connection. >> oh, my god. pretty good. >> made my day. >> joining us now, director of polling at harvard's institute of politics and founder and ceo of social sphere, inc. very good to have you back on the show. >> so mika and i are always asked, as everybody else is always asked, what's going on? why has america turned in this direction and are we doomed? i said, listen, it's like the matrix. they're going to look back on donald trump as an anomaly. but an anomaly of the worst kind. demographics is destiny. this will forever be remembered as an anomaly that represented

the death cry of an aging white america, dead and buried forever. >> i think -- >> your polling shows it. >> it does. it shows a couple significant things, joe. number one, two-thirds of this generation, the largest generation we've been talking for a long time in the history of america, now it's the largest generation in the electorate. because every millennial, beginning in 2018, will be eligible to vote. so there is more of them than baby boomers want. two-thirds of them have significant fear of their future. and like you said, i think what we will see in 2020, counter to populism, will be a millennial-centric movement, where they will turn this fuel, turn this fear into fuel and tip over every institution that doesn't bring them in. >> wow. joanna, we've had a lot of discussions about millennials. just this -- >> we have, mika. we have. well, my great concern is that according to your poll, too, only 34% say they will definitely vote. so none of this matters. if you can't motivate them to get to the ballot box. and if i were in silicon valley,

i would be spending a huge amount of time figuring out how people who can pay for everything online can vote online, too. otherwise i fear they will not express themselves. and what happened in brexit, and we saw what happened here,brexi what happened here too, but 85% of people over the age of 65 voted for brexit and only 34% of millenials voted. >> that's right. we can see what happens when they do vote. virginia happens. we had twice as many young people vote in virginia than they did eight years ago and we know what happened. >> so we're talking about them being more engaged. now we're looking at how they'll be engaged. you have almost two-thirds in your poll prefer a democratic majority to a republican majority. is that broadly reflective of where millenials are in their politics? are there many more, twice as many democrats among millenials than republicans? >> no, more skbnindependents th either party. in 75% of the 18 to 25-year-old millenials are not strong supporters of either party. given the choices today, as you

said two-thirds to one-third prefer democrats. democrats are more motivated this year for sure. >> so the fuel that you're talking about, the fuel that millenials feel, you mentioned the phrase tipping over institutions. what institutions would they be intent on tipping over that haven't been tipped over already? >> i think government. i'm tracking from southeast asia throughout europe, potentially here in the u.s. to have basically kind of a -- we've been talking about kind of the wolf being at the door. this is a moment where i think we need some more top-down leadership to engage people on these generational issues. tax reform is a great example. gun control is another example. this is a two-thirds/one-third skbr generation. they can raise a billion dollars online if they had some leadership and i think it's coming. >> donald trump since elected never really popular with millenials, but what support he had even among young republicans, he's lost 12 percentage points in this poll.

he's at 25%. >> where i think most of that deficit comes from, joe, this is just in the last six months, it comes from his performance on race-related issues. that was the -- it's the lowest mark overall and specifically among young republicans. that's where they give him the lowest ratings. >> do you have any sense, john, and i know it's not in your numbers so i'm going to put you on the spot. but the willingness of some millenials to actually be engaged to the point where they run for office? because that to me is the next step. it's one thing to get in the process and to vote, but they want to have somebody who looks like them, who thinks like them, who sees the world like they do. >> who needs a mental health day like they do. >> perhaps. but do you hear more millenials want to get engaged in the process? >> i do, especially from millenial-minded service members. there's one in texas and maybe a dozen or so young men and women who served in the military who are now turning to public

service. seth moulton in massachusetts is another great example of that. there were three or four potential heads of state in europe in their late 30s, early 40s. >> and justin trudeau in canada who's very appealing to them. >> so over the past 70 years or so, after -- 75 years after the west and the world defeated naziism, we grew up, i think all of us grew up with an overriding fear of the soviets, of the cold war, of fallout shelters, of what was coming. your poll shows that the majority of millenials think the greatest threat comes from inside the country. something -- remember that famous abraham lincoln quote about the great empires of europe couldn't take a drink from the ohio river unless we gave them permission, but we can destroy ourselves from within. seems like millenials are channeling lincoln here. >> and that was a major

objective of what our students want to understand is what are our values and what are our threats. we found, again, two-thirds to one-third young people believe the greatest threats come from inside, not outside the country. we had over a thousand individual responses. we followed up and found out that includes donald trump, includes a sense of disharmony in america, racism in ourselves, for allowing this to happen. >> so they're looking within. >> they are. >> not just at the president. a lot of millenials i speak to are just beside themselves about this president. >> and they're the most racially diverse generation too, right, so they personally take on -- i mean it says they have a 22% -- trump has a 22% approval rating for race relations, how he handles them, and they feel it personally. >> almost eight out of ten people consider race a serious concern. seven out of ten african-americans in this country, 46% of hispanics are very concerned about feeling under attack on an everyday

basis in this country. >> looking at all these numbers, what does this mean about what the state of the democratic party is, joe? because it would -- it seems like the table is set. >> i think it's the state of the parties. i think the parties are dying. they really are dying. the republican party is dying. alabama will be a death blow. the democrats somehow remarkably have no cogent answer, no program to put this back in. i mean our children grow up with these. they want to buy something, i'm not going out, i'm just going to go to amazon and buy whatever i want to buy. why in the world do we have to choose between democrats and republicans when you have -- >> alexa, give me a president. >> alexa, give me that. give me that. the framework is being blown to pieces. it's only a matter of time. i would be shocked if we didn't have an independent president in the next ten years. shocked. >> why would this bow the only

industry that doesn't transform over the last dozen or so years because of technology. >> so what you're seeing is disruption in the political process and probably the god of starbucks, howard schultz, will ending up running. everybody says he's going to run. >> and on paper things look so good for democrats, but again only one in three young people believe the democratic party cares about them. >> were you able to pick up in all of these surveys, the combined surveys that you've done, are there one or two nagging fears that millenials live with? they might be different from the fears that we older people live with. >> i think the overall fear is tied, mike, to kind of the feeling that there's just not equal chance for everyone to work hard. essentially getting back to the american dream. i don't want to use the term political rigging because that's a little political almost partisan term now, but the idea of fairness is all young people are looking for. if they do well in school, they want to have an opportunity to

get a job in the city or town they care about and work through that process. inequality is something that connects democrats as well as republicans. >> your point about millenials being more independent, i think would extend -- i'm not a millenial, i'm older. i think i'm generation x, i never know. but i think it extends even a little older where people look and say why would i blindly go down a ballot and vote for someone based on an r or d next to their name. i'm going to take measure of the candidate and if it lines up with enough of my beliefs i'm willing to vote for that person. so what kind of a candidate do you think these millenials you talk to are looking for? let's say in 2020 in a presidential candidate? >> yeah, because they don't need an r or d, they're used to getting what they want. >> kind of the unbundling of politics i think is what they're looking for. they're looking for someone who empowers them. so think about three or four different kind of characteristics, one of which is who actually asks people who they think to create a policy or platform potentially online by the best ideas of everyone.

second is one who inspires them to actually talk to their friends and neighbors to have a conversation about politics. they may not agree with your position but to encourage civil discour discourse. we took away the names of the presidents but we shared key statements from everyone. two-thirds of millenials agree with what bill clinton said in the '90s and what obama said during his presidency. one, we're a nation of immigrants. we need to have a civic reawakening in this country or we'll lose the american dream. >> and they sort of had that candidate in bernie sanders, right? did you ask them about bernie sanders now? >> we haven't asked them about sanders in a little while. clearly he was the millenial candidate by far last time. we'll see what happens in the next couple years. >> let's move around for final thoughts. mike. >> john, thank you. >> thank you, john. >> well, we were talking about fears that millenials have. i keep wondering the more you talk to people, a lot of people

wonder if the country is suffering so much damage right now, will we ever be able to repair the damage that's being done today. >> willie. >> i worry. >> we're six days away from that election in the state of alabama. we'll be down there. >> we're going to go. >> on election day. i think as we've all said the last several weeks, the people in the media, the people in new york and washington are presuming because of his past that roy moore will lose are mistaken and that this race is up for grabs right now. it's a coin toss. >> i think this race is going to be -- it is going to be a deciding moment for the republican party. obviously it will help democrats if roy moore gets elected. but that might be a short-term gain because, again, talking on the topic of millenials and voting, i think it's only a matter of time until there is a massive disruption in american politics and parties get blown to pieces. >> it's an incredible time. i'm looking at "time" magazine's person of the year, the silence breakers. i do think we're witnessing a sea change.

i hope there will be ripple effects, ripples across the water all across corporate america, not just in the big fancy businesses and that it's not a tsunami and blows back and hurts women. >> just very validating for people who have been complaining about it for 10, 15 years and weren't listened to, nobody believed them, now to be believed, huge. >> you have five seconds. >> i think the counter to populism is this cover and we'll see the same thing happening, voice of the people is coming. >> that does it for us this morning. thanks for being with us. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. thanks, joe. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, a capital move. hours from now president trump will recognize jerusalem as the capital of israel, fulfilling one part of a key campaign promise. >> we will move the american embassy to the eternal capital of the jewish people, jerusalem. >> and right now israel prepares for violence