peet of work by bob woodward. that's "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> unfortunately i believe we're out of time. >> the vice president ends the suspension. >> the time necessary to mount a winning campaign for the nomination. tonight what this means for the democratic front-runner and the man trying to catch her. senator bernie sanders will join me. and what did exxon know and when did it know it? >> scientific evidence remains inconclusive as to whether human activities affect the global climate. >> i'll ask senator sanders why he's calling for a federal investigation. plus why harry reid is demanding the rnc pay for the benghazi hearings. and the freedom caucus comparing paul ryan to a maid who won't wash windows.

>> if i can truly be a unifying figure, then i will gladly serve. >> the latest on the mutiny in d.c. when "all in" starts right now. after more than 80 days of will he or won't he speculation, and more than 40 years of pursuing his dream of becoming vice president of the united states. >>, jokes beaden took to the rose garden with his wife jill and president obama to tell the world he will not seek the democratic nomination for president. >> as my family and i have worked through the grieving process, i'm said all along what i have said time and again to others, that it may very well be that process by the time we get through it, closes the window on mounting a realistic campaign for president.

that it might close. i've concluded it has closed. >> biden and his family have been mourning the death in may of his son beau. according -- in the months since that column ran, biden has been openly considering a late entrance into the race, though he warned he may not have the, quote, emotional energy to do so. in his 13-minute speech today, biden called for a renewed focus on curing cancer and a continued push for equality for all. an apparent criticism of hillary's assertion, biden made a point once again to say he does not view republicans as enemies, and he surged the democratic not not not to turn his or her back. >> this party, our nation, will be making a tragic mistake if we walk away or attempt to undo you the obama legacy.

the american people have worked too hard, and we've come too far for that. democrats should not only defend this record, and protect had record, they should run on the record. >> a short time ago, i spoke to bernie sanders and asked for his reaction to biden's decision. >> i have known joe biden for many, many years, and like him very very much. we were anticipating running against him, we were anticipating running without him. i think he fought long and hard about this decision, what it means to the family and what it means to the country, and he chose not to. >> you gamed it out, obviously. >> yeah, sure. >> it would be irresponsible not to. is there a policy area, are there a set of policy questions, legislative initiatives, conversations within the party that would happen that won't happen with him not in the race? >> i don't know. i mean, i think in many ways his

record was not totally dissimilar from secretary clinton's. he may be stronger on certainly other issues, but we cannot know what we will not know. so we will see. >> there were not things you were gaming out saying this issue, this issue will sently be front and center of the campaign if he gets in the race? >> no, what we were doing is reviewing hi record to know where he stood and where we stood differently. >> when were you first elected to be mayor of burlington? >> 1981. >> so 34 years ago. joe biden has been in public life for 40 years. he's been an elected person. how hard is it to walk away? how hard is it to say i'm not -- there's going to be a time when no one will have elected me. >> i think it is hard. joe is a passionate guy. he takes these things very, very seriously. he works really hard. i want to repeat what i had earlier.

we seem to have forgotten as a nailed where we were several years ago. we were losing 800,000 jobs a month. they guyed faced terrible obstructionism from republicans, the financial system was on the verge of collapse, running up the largest deficit, and these guys worked together and led the country in bringing us to a place where we're obviously better than we were seven years ago. we still have an enormous amount of work to do. >> there's a tension that strikes me in two things, for you particularly. that has to do with joe biden today, basically being very clear to the field, you have to run on the president's record. to say barack obama is a fine president, i support him, and he did a great job, and also during his time in office, all of these economic conditions for the middle class and working class have not improved. there's a tension between saying he's done a good job -- >> i don't think there's a

tension. it's simply the truth. when we came in, our world, this world's financial sim was on the verge of collapse. 800,000 jobs were being lost each month. we're in better shape, but democrats can't go around saying things are good. the truth is for 40 years, 4-0 years, middle class has been disappearing. huge and grotesque levels of income and wealth inequality. we have a corrupt campaign finance system as a result of citizen united. we have more people in jail than any other country on earth. so we continue to have huge problems, but we should give obama and biden credit for what they have accomplished, and understand we need to go much further. >> that's the question to me. there's two ways to think about the next democratic president, one is continuing on the trajectory that obama and joe biden have laid out, and another is essentially a course correction.

it sounds to me like you're making the latter case. >> i am. what i am saying is, look, i'm a agreed personal friend of the president and the vice president. both wonderful people and i think they've done a damn good job, but i personally believe given the crisis we face right now, with the power structure in america, we have corporate america and the koch brothers and the corporate media. so much power on top, we need a political revolution. we need to mobilize tens of millions of people to begin to stand up and fight back and re-claim the government which is now owned by big money. do i think that that was the work -- was that the goal of the president and the vice president? not really, i don't think so. so i think we have to go further. i think we need to stand up to wall street in a way that the president and the vice president have not.

i think we have to move toward making public education, higher education tuition free for public colleges and universities, and i think you have to tell the billionaire class they are going to pay their fair shar of taxes. >> we have you in new york, the rare occasion to talk to you face-to-face, and we'll take later in the program about your calling for a task force to investigate exxon. much more on that later in the program. this afternoon hillary clinton called joe biden, according to her press secretary. she tweeted, he's a good friend and greatman. a poole out yesterday showed biden with 15% support. the bick question now is where that support goes. right now there are only two candidates in the race with any appreciable support, hillary clinton and bernie sanders. on the surface at least biden's decision would seem to benefit clinton more than it does sanders. the lead over sanders was 20 points with biden in the race, 25 points when biden was left out as an option. joining me now is howard dean,

and mucher chair of the dnc and gerb mcintosh. governor dean, let me start with you. are you relieved by this decision that you're not going to have to be one of many people as a hillary supporter herself, out there basically going after joe biden, which would have inevitably been where this ended up? >> no, i don't think so. i'm not relieved. i'm relieved for joe. i think he made the right decision. he can now leave politics now he did almost more than anybody else serving as a great vice president, and you can be proud of that record. >> i've never trashed bernie sanders, i'm not going to trash joe biden. i don't think that's how we win general elections. i wasn't ever thinking i would be out on the campaign trail trashing joe biden. >> so, jess, how much do you think this came as a surprise inside hillaryland? >> i don't think anybody anticipated it.

>> that's my sense, too. >> i think if anybody said they knew what was going to happen this morning, we took an informal poll, and it was literally split. so i think this was a decision he made on his own terms, with his own consult, exactly as it ought to be. it frankly surprised the heck out of everything, which is nice and refreshing. >> do you buy the -- one of the -- the poorly understood aspects of what happened with hillary clinton's numbers over the summer was that a significant portion of the softening of her numbers had to do with the fact that biden was suddenly being included in polls. do you buy the standard conventional wisdom, which is that ultimately it is now a race, there is for now between biden's absence helps hillary clinton? >> i think if you're tracking one person's poll numbers over a large am of time and you all of

a sudden introduce a third viable candidate, everyone's numbers go down. so we saw that happen. we didn't always see that put in the right context. we've seen his numbers compared to her numbers, compared to her numbers before she was a candidate. all of that is not the way you track polls. i think we are still see a very tight contest. i think that democrats are largely really happy with those choices. we saw that coming out of the debate last week. i think democrats are excited about the conversation that's happening. it's a substantive one, which i know can be tough for people who want to cover something that's comparable with what's happening on the -- but what we are having is a substantive conversation about agendas and the way to take the country forward, with slight differences, and i think what we're going to be seeing for the next few months. >> governor dean, let me ask you this question. i just asked bernie sanders this.

sometimes you watch a guy who is 88 years old running for another term in the senate, and you think to yourself, you know, there's a lot of things you could do. i imagine there's a lot of books i want to read, places i want to travel. it doesn't seem pretty addictive. part of what it felt like we were watching, aside from the mourning process, was also him reckoning with not being a politician for the first time of his adult life in 40 years. >> it is pretty addictive, but i'm happy to tell you there's a real life after politics, and i'm enjoying mine. >> you're a liar. >> no, i'm not. >> i'm just kidding. >> there's a time and place for anything. i view my place as being a cheerleader for the next generation. i think hillary would be a great president. i don't think there's a single thing that byrne juries sandest said that i disagreed with. so, i mean, i'm a happy guy.

i think we have great candidates. i am very much hoping we're going to win the presidency. if we don't, i think this country will go in a very bad direction. >> you, of course, had joe biden in our 2016 fantasy draft, so i extend my condolences. >> if you had told me i was going to get more points off donald trump than joe biden when i played that, i would have told you you were insane. >> see, politics is unpredictable. thank you both. >> thanks. >> thank you. coming up, more from bernie sanders, i'll ask about the allegations with exxon. >> plus house democrats consider resigning. later paul ryan falls sort of getting a critical endorsement from the vaunted freedom caucus. those stories and more ahead.

a great reminder of just how earlier we are in the nominating process and how much everything could change comes from an article written in august in "the washington post." he notes on this day, in the year before the 2004 election, general wesley clark was the top of the democratic field, leading by five points. on this day hillary clinton, you may have heard of her was way in front of everyone else, including the current president, by nearly 26 percentages point. rudie giuliani would stay in the lead for another 78 days. in the 2012 cycle on this day, the poll was the one, the only herman cain up by half a percent.

foreman hillary clinton will testify before the house select committee on benghazi. the committee has become a full-on political spectacle following the seeming admission by kevin mccarthy that the point was to dry down hillary clinton's poll numbers. that was echoed by richard hannah. trey gowdy pushed back hard saying republicans who aren't even on the committee should shut up and stop talking. four debt people are, but you're not. ahead of tomorrow's testimony, everyone wants in on the act. donald trump says he was disappointed with gowdy's recent comments. >> the hearings, i was looking forward to all of them, but with all that's happening, i'm surprised he pivoted away so much from hillary. actual le we want to discussion other people.

it soundened lying had was sort of pulling away from going after her. >> presidential candidate and gowdy ace fellow south carolinian tweeted -- he's leading a legitimate investigation on benghazi. stand with trey. but now democrats led by senate minority leader harry reid, dib durbin, chuck schumer and patty -- quoting the letter to reince priebus, due to the political nature of the committee, we believe it is inappropriate. to financial the operations. two democratic members, and linda sanchez have suggested that if republicans continue on the same course, they may. will reconsider how much longer their participation makes sense. joining me now, adam schiff, he,

congressman, this whole thing, you know, it seems to frankly political, but the role of the democrats also seems sort of preposterous at this point. it's coming -- you basically said it from the beginning, you joined reluctantly. is this a gimmick? why not quit now? >> well, first of all, i don't think donald trump has to be worried. the committee began about hillary clinton, it's currently about hillary clinton, as long as it goes on, it will remain about hillary clinton. that's what the committee was formed for. no, it hasn't been any change or any surprise to us, we have had this debate frankly since the beginning of this committee, whether it makes sense for us to continue because we are on the committee, we've been able to set the record straight, when

the misleading leak after misleading leak, the most egregious of which was the amazing one. he shied a 13-page letter says hillary clinton had endangered the lives of other but using a private e-mail to mention a confidential classified source. only for you to go to the cia and say, is there anything classified in this e-mail and have them say, no, there isn't. what's more, this source isn't classified. so we were able to debunk that latest curlous athat's what we're wrestling with. and that was kind of a classic attack of the committee, which like all the other taxes

are versus misleading. we've had 53, 54 interviews. these are staff conducted interviews, the members by and large don't attend. in fact chairman gowdy missed about 47 of the first 53 interviews himself, he didn't think it was worth his attending. so they can attack me for not attending, but their own members haven't attended. in fact the chairman hasn't attended these interviews. ing itly the few he's attended have been those mostly focused on secretary clinton. the chairman says we should judge the work of the committee

not based on his os membership and leadership are saying, and even the own investigator has said, but by the committee's actions. frankly those actions are the most damning of all. >> what's the tipping point? we'll have the big spectacle tomorrow, there's all sorts of expectations in either direction. are you looking for anything? is there some sort of thing that crosses the threshold where you resign or the democrats resign en masse? >> this is not something where individuals i think are going -- through our leadership of when it makes sense or whether it makes sense to continue participating, but here's a dilemma or here's the situation, rather. that is we don't know where this committee is going after tomorrow. the committee said we were going to do ten or a dozen interviews this year. they canceled all of them except the one with secretary clinton. so we have no idea what's coming next.

in fact i think the majority has no idea what's coming next. i suspect that in an effort at least to try to minimize the impact of the admission and others, they'll go through the motions of some other hearings to show that it wasn't just about secretary clinton, but we don't know, frankly. i'm not sure they know, either. >> congressman schiff, thank you. >> thanks, chris. after members all out begged for paul ryan to run, it looks like the freedom caucus will not endorse him. that's ahead.

the leader of german,just told the leader of israel basically what you said was wrong, the holocaust was our fault and our fault entirely. that followed a speech by benjamin neddenia hue to the 37th world zionist congress, where he said, quote, hitler didn't want to exterminate the jews. he said it was a palestinian leader in jerusalem who gave hitler the idea. >> hitler didn't want to exterminate the jews at the time. he wanted to expel the jews, and he said if you expel them, they'll all come here. so what should i do with them? he asked. he said, burn them. the account was roundly condemned, one saying with this netanyahu joins a long line of people he would call the holocaust deniers the ultimate pushback contain from german

chance lore merkel. we know that responsibility for this time against humanity is german and very much our own. bear in mind netanyahu's comments were made against the backdrop of series of killings between palestinians and israelis. the comments were also made just hours before netanyahu's trip to germany where he tried to walk back the quotes. hitler was responsible for the final solution. he made the decision. but according to an israeli paper netanyahu said the purpose of the adeck dote was to highlight the long-standing existence of palestinian incitement against jewels. so in his rush to create the most monies true rhetorical

enemy he could, history was just collateral damage.

you've dealt with the freedom caucus for a long time. so what do you think the chances are that they will acquiesce to paul ryan's demands, or requests as he puts them. >> i think paul ryan would make a great speaker. but this decision is up to the members. i thought last night went well. hopefully by the end of the we'll we'll have a nominee. >> he's right. the decision whether to is up to the house members, especially the members who make up the freedom caucus, the group of roughly 40 hard-line republicans who essentially pushed boehner into early retirement. he -- in a somewhat strange announcement if a set of conditions are met. those conditioning which are lengthy included an endorsement from the freedom caucus and all major caucuses, restriction on

how much time he would spent from hi families, and rules changes. at least ten of those members are none too pleased lie walter jones. >> well, all i could say is i didn't know what the event was tonight. if i knew it was a paul ryan rally for speaker of the house, i wouldn't be here. fox news tweeted that congress man huelskamp says ryan set up unacceptable conditions. and another quote -- it's like interviewing a maid for a job and she says i don't clean weans, i don't dough floors -- it's running people the wrong way. ryan met with members behind closed doors. to win their endorsement he would neat spore of at least 80% of the group's 40 members. moments all one said while the majority supports the caucus there are not enough votes for a formal endorsement.

>> a supermajority of the freedom caucus has to agree to support paul ryan. a supermajority. there was not an agreement on the preconditions, and we're going to continue to work to change what's happening in the house. >> that's why this is not an endorsement. it's a super majority, but -- support. >> so a supermajority means two thirds. >> because it requires an 80% threshold. he's got to decide whether that's sufficient. this is not about crowning a king. this is about working together and making sure that every member feels like they're empowered. >> joining me, representative mike at burgiss, republican from texas. my understanding is you are not yourself a member of the freedom caucus, but you have friends who are?

>> i think that's correct. thanks for having me on. i always enjoyed being with you. >> i enjoyed it too. >> i realize i'm your favorite texas republican, so i acknowledge that. >> let me see if i understand this correctly. there's 435 members of the house of representatives. >> that's correct. >> the current republican majority, if i'm not mistaken is 247 members? >> that's right. >> so we're down to 247, because the majority guess to decide who the speaker is. there's a how freedom caucus that is 40 members that needs to be to 32 members, if i'm doing this math quickly on the fly correctly. 32 members to endorse, and there's somewhere around the threshold of 29 to 30, so we're talking about two or three house freedom caucus votes will deny the endorsement which will mean that paul ryan will not be speaker. is that correct? >> you will have to ask the individuals involved. my understanding was the requirement there be an endorsement by the tuesday group, constitutionalitiy economiee and free.

i'm a member of the tuesday group and member of the study committee, a member of the texas delegation, and paul is meeting with us tomorrow morning. so we'll see where all that goes. people around here, they're good vote counters, and they generally can tell the way things are going to go. >> what was your reaction? from the outside, and i have no dog in this fight for a variety of obvious reasons. the whole thing looked to me like watching two people talk themselves into a relationship, that is going to clearly end in tears later on. paul ryan doesn't seem to want this job. >> no, he does not. >> so why -- isn't this a bad idea for this person to take this job when he clearly doesn't want it? >> chris, i've lost you. hold on for a minute. >> you got me back there, congressman? >> i'm sorry. i'm back with you. >> he doesn't want the job. >> i've lost the audio.

>> we may have to take one second to see if he can test his audio. i could spit out my theory of why this was a terrible idea. basquely paul ryan cease said i don't want the job, members are holding essentially hostage the entire republican party have said they're not that thrilled about them. they went through the count of ten of them. ultimately the structural conditions that have produced the i think it's fair to say failed speakership in many ways of john boehner are going to carry over to paul ryan, no matter how charismatic, hoe well liked, how affable, bright and industrious, fellow members of his caucus may think he is. we have it back? so congressman, why is this not a terrible idea, if paul ryan doesn't want it and some influential people in that caucus don't want him? >> well, paul has a national stature, having been our vice

presidential nominee in 2012. i think many people look to representative ryan as perhaps that figure with national stature that can bring some unity to the conference. it's a tall order. i don't know whether he can do that, and as he as stressed time and time again, he has his dream job right now. he's the chairman of the waist & means, he's looking forward to rewriting a tax code with a republican president next year, so in many ways he has only down side from taking on this job. at the same time he recognizes his responsibility to the country, and my understanding is he came to a decision sometime this past week that if the conference wanted him, he would serve in that capacity. >> and you would support him? >> again, he's coming to meet with the texas delegation tomorrow morning. i'm anxious to hear what he has to say, but i've always had a lot of regard and affect for representative ryan.

i was one of the 13 people who endorsed his pathway to prosperity when many told me not to do that. i thought it was a bold statement to get out there and say we are going to reform things from tax code to entitlement. >> thank you very much. paul ryan has given them until friday to decide. meanwhile, john boehner said he's -- with the floor vote for speaker of the shows slated for the following day. they reported that they have a supermajority in place to support him, but not enough to actually formally endorse him. joining mess is charlie dent, republican from pennsylvania. says a no-go on paul ryan or a go?

>> i think that remains to be seen. paul ryan said yesterday he wanted three particular groups within the conference to endorse him. the tuesday group, which i'm a cochair of, the republican study committee, as well as the freedom caucus, it sounds as if what i just heard, that they have not endorsed them, but there seems to be some support. the question for paul ryan is not whether or not he can win the speaker's chair. i think he can do it. the real question is what does he do once he wins? that's the issue. we have to change the underlying political dynamic that got us into this situation. paul ryan is a really smart guy. i support him. he knows that the first thing he's going to have to do is work on a debt ceiling agreement, he's going to have to work on a budget agreement, and an omnibus appropriation bill. we know all of these measures are going to require some level

of bipart sal collaboration and participation. i suspect some of the members who were critical of john boehner and kevin mccarthy will also be critical of paul ryan and may try to undermine him. that's my fear for paul. that's why paul has been guarded or hesitant in wanting to accept this position. we need to hear from paul ryan to see how he feels about this decision of the freedom caucus. i don't know how he'll take it. >> can i get your response to that matt salmon quote about you're try to hire a maid and the maid will only work certain hours. i found that such a strange metaphor. number one, we're talking about speaker of the house of the united states. people talking about this job in this way that just seems completely ahistorical. this is a job for i think it's safe to say hundreds of yours in other republic, people have done anything in their power to attain.

suddenly things are so dysfunctional that he's comparing it to a low paid service job? >> well, i find it ironic that some of the members who represent a minority of the house republican conference have made demands on the speaker candidates, but when paul ryan, who is running for speaker, makes demands on the members, the same members find it troubling. so you can't have it both ways. i'm also concerned, too, that a small minority members of our conference on the one hand would have veto power over who should be our next speaker. >> yes. >> yet at the same time they are insisting that we enforce the hastert rule, which is really not a rule, but the notion that a majority of the majority should -- they want hassered rule forcedsh but they want to maintain a veto over the speaker. >> that's a great point. >> it's a bit disengenous.

>> that's an excellent point. thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. bernie sander feels that exxon should be held accountable for the alleged climate change fraud. [ horn honks melody ] well, well. if it isn't the belle of the ball. gentlemen. you look well. what's new, flo? well, a name your price tool went missing last week. name your what, now? it gives you coverage options based on your budget. i just hope whoever stole it knows that it only works at progressive.com. so, you can't use it to just buy stuff? no. i'm sorry, gustav. we have to go back to the pet store. [ gustav squawks ] he's gonna meet us there. the name your price tool. still only at progressive.com.

2015? you mean we're in the future? >> well, there are no flying cars, self-drying jackets or hoverboards, real hoverboards today we learned one huge support of the -- screenwriter bob gael told that biff tenon was based on none other than donald trump. asked about the uncanny resemblance to trump, he specifically cited a scene where biff assistants in front of paintings of himself. we. what the film makers could not have known is 2015, trump would parlay his real estate power

into political power, just like biff today. >> just one thing -- got bless america. >> we are going to make america great again. >> fortunately in the real 2015, america has not turned into the dystoppian wasteland that biff presides over in the movie. at least not yet. [female announcer] if the most challenging part of your day

is the staying awake part, sleep train has your ticket to a better night's sleep. because when brands compete, you save during mattress price wars. save up to $400 on beautyrest and posturepedic. get interest-free financing until 2018 on tempur-pedic. plus, helpful advice from the sleep experts. don't miss mattress price wars at sleep train. ♪ sleep train ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ proponents of the global warming theory say that higher levels of greenhouse gases, especially co2, are causing world temperatures to rise and burning foss the fuels is the reason, but scientific evidence remains inconclusive as to whether human activities affect the global climate. >> more or less the party line at exxon throughout the '90s and beyond, but last week a blockbuster new report from inside climate news shows the company had a different approach to climate change years earlier.

as far back as the 1970s erickson's own scientists were researching. one expert reportedly telling the company's management committee in 1977 -- there is general scientific agreement the most likely manner that mankind is influencing the environment is carbon dioxide reveal. later it curtailed the research on carbon dioxide, and instead, as has been widely documented, started funneling money into groups lie the american petroleum institute and global climate coalition. they did that to spread denial and doubt about manmade climate change. in a recent bur view, a response american for exxon mobil disputed the report and insisted his company does not bankroll climate denial. >> we don't fund those groups as the science has become clearer, we're more committed than earn to researching --

>> we don't or we didn't fund them? you got out of the funding business in 2009 or some such, but for 20 years before that -- >> i'm going to finish my thought here, bob. >> please clarify this. are not funding or did not fund them? >> we are not funding. >> okay. so who cares? >> i love bob sdpla coming up, the presidential candidate who is calling the department of justice, bernie sanders joins mess next.

bernie sander just wrote a letter to loretta lynch calling for a task force to investigate exxon mobil. a short time ago i got a chance to speak to the senator and ask him why. >> there is evidence that suggests way back in the 1970s exxon's scientists did studies and told the leadership of exxon that climate change was real and potentially very, very dangerous. that's what they told them. exxon took in this information and then proceeded to spend tens of millions of dollars on organizations whose job in life was to deny the reality of climate change. if all of that is true, that happens to be against the law.

>> but why can't -- that just seems like doing a terrible thing, but why would that be against the law? if we know this thing is true, and we're going to pay money to -- >> that's a violation of racketeering legislation. it is very similar to what the tobacco industry was convicted of, and why they paid a huge settlement. it wasn't that they were selling a product that caused cancer and killed people, it was that they lied. they had evidence within the industry to say their product was causing serious health problems. what did they do? they public and said, no, i'm dr. jones, smoking cigarettes is great to you, they lied. that's the crime here. if it is true, and we want the attorney general and a task force to investigation, they are breaking the law. >> obviously a u.s. senator -- the justice system works in a -- obviously. they're asking for an investigation. >> and here's the significance and the importance of this.

i happen to believe, obviously that climate change is real, one of the great planetary crises we face. but when you have people like the koch brothers and exxon, mobil today, it slows up the world from aggressively addressing what is an international crisis. this is serious stuff. >> do you anticipate we'll see a lot of fossil fuel dollars flowing into this next election? >> do i anticipate that? let me guess. koch brothers are on record as saying they will spend in $900 million in this campaign cycle. they make most of their money through fossil fuel. and certainly the other oil companies will not be far hind. this is something i want to point out. on this particular area, in many cases, most of these guys deny the reality of climate change, or they say we're not sure.

how do you think that happens? it happens because the republican party is significantly funded by the koch brothers and the big energy companies. and the day after some republican says i read this stuff here, i think climb change is real, we've got to do something, their funding is gone, and they'll be primaried. >> it's interesting. i was listening to tim dickinson who wrote a piece about the house freedom caucus. he pointed out they're opposed to some of the big funders on certain issues, some of the trade stuff they have made some noise about. one place where they're really aligned is on fossil fuels. there's really just a shocking amount of unanimity there. >> i'm trying to think where is the exception to that rule, but i would 99% guarantee to you that any republican who said climate change is real, we have to take bold action to transform our energy system, that person would be primarilied by big energy money and likely defeated.

>> lindsey gravm obviously has managed to survive, though he's not doing particularly well in the polls. do you think that essentially the is turning. >> you're not from a statement like kentucky, right, where they really have kind of a death grip. do you think their power is ebbing in any way? >> i think public consciousness is growing. people are seeing it with their own eyes. california with the droughts, they're seeing it in the southwest and other areas in terms of forest fires, which are worse and more numerous than used to be the case. a heat wave in pakistan. they're seeing it with their own eyes, and people irsaying we better do something about it. >> you've spend a career talking to voters, and when -- it occurs to me part of it is you're talking to someone in iowa with in a diener, who is watching jobs leave their town.

is this something that comes up when you're doing -- when you're doing campaign events? is this front of mind for voters? >> i think the issue of climate change is on the minds than the pundits think. i think it's growing. the evidence and what people are saying it's so real, i'm worried about my kids and grandchildren and what kind of planet they will be living in. >> you do hear that? >> absolutely. absolutely. younger people absolutely, you're seeing it more with older people as well. bernie sanders, brooklyn native, here in his home city of new york. >> thank you very much. that's all this evening. a rye minder, tomorrow is a big day on the capitol, as secretary clinton testifies. we'll be covering it live all day. and then this friday, hillary clinton will be sitting down for an exclusive interview with rachel maddow, her first interview since joe biden decided not to run and her first after her testimony to the committee.

you don't want to miss it. "the rachel maddow show" starts in and out. >> you're keeping me nervous. >> i think it will probably be the greatest interview in the history of american journalism. >> and if it isn't -- i know, thanks, man. vice president joe biden will not succeed barack obama as president of the united states. vice president dick cheney did not succeed george w. bush as president of the united states. vice president vice president al gore did not succeed bill clinton as president of the united states. the last time a vice president did succeed the president, who he served alongside in the white house, was george h.w. bush, who won one term as president to