good evening. i'm chris matthews live on the spin room. that's what they call it, at the win hotel on the loss is strip. the side of the first-ever democratic debate. we have reaction from the candidates, all the sin city spin. after midnight east coast time

tonight, a vegas flair it self. some of the hottest acts out here to talk about politics including legendary singer, wayne newton. he is all for trump. the famous political impressionist, rich little. we also have the best -- the woman who runs the city, mayor carolyn goodman. first, let's get to the big highlights of the debate. bernie slanders land -- great by millionaires and billionaires, getting the crowd reaction and billionaires and how they are ruining the system and house money is ruining a very good democracy. let's hear from bernie. >> it seems to me that instead of tobin more jails and providing more incarceration, maybe, just maybe, we should be putting money into education and jobs for our kids. pearce what this campaign is about is whether we can mobilize our people to take back our

government from a handful of the legionnaires and create a vibrant democracy we know we can and should have. thank you. >> that was his phrase night after night. over and over again he played the eagles of america on the billionaires. he went after casino capitalism. >> part of the casino capitalists process by which so few have select chins and so many have so little i which waltzed, greed and recklessness, no, i don't. >> let me follow up on that, anderson, because when i think about capitalism, i think about all the small businesses that were started because we have the opportunity and freedom in our country for people to do that and to make a good living for themselves and their families, and i don't think we should confuse what we have to do every so often in america, which is save capitalism from itself.

>> wow. heller he clinton challenge sanders when he talked about his support for european socialism. >> we should look to countries like denmark, sweden and norway and learn from what they have accomplished for their working people. >> i don't think we should confuse what we have to do every so often in america, which is save capitalism from itself. and i think what senator sanders is saying only makes sense in the terms of the inequality that we have, but we are not denmark. i love denmark. it we are the united states of america, and it's our job to rein in the excesses of capitalism so that it doesn't run amok and doesn't cause the kind of inequities that we are seeing in our economic system. we would be making a grave mistake to turn our backs on what else the greatest middle class. >> senator sanders? >> i am joined by andrea mitchell, the nation's joan walsh and the chairman of clinton's campaign.

the role of government, i thought i saw tonight a reformer, hillary clinton, against a guy talking revolution who blamed everything on income inequality in this country, on the wealthy. he went from the environment, education, social security. everything was tax the rich more. they are screwing up our system. what do you think happened tonight? >> let me start by saying i think hillary crushed it tonight. she was knowledgeable. she was on her game. she was the most passionate about real people. she talked about dreamers. she talked about women who have -- needs for reproductive health. she took it to the republicans. i think it was a debate, really, that was on the issues. very different from the republican debate. no insults. >> no mention, really, of trump. >> and i think it was a great debate for democrats as a whole.

but i think hillary did an outstanding job. >> did she fill the political center as well as the centerleft? did she fill the party that bernie sanders doesn't try to appeal to? >> i think she appealed to the people who are staying awake at night worrying about their problems. she was really talking right to them about what's going to make a difference in their lives. it was more about dissolutions that she was going to bring to them than it was about some grand philosophical approach other than she's a projection -- progressively gets results. >> joan, i think she went for -- you may not want to say it the way i can say it -- she felt center to centerleft of the party. she didn't really try to catch bernie all the way. she let him have his room out there. >> she let him have his room. it i think she helped him out because she got him to say he supports small business. >> he's moving right.

>> she pulled him right. it was an amazing debate. >> i was very proud of our country. democrats should be proud of their party tonight. >> there was no red-baiting or grabbing the e-mails and trying to hang them on here. was about the issues. senator sanders and hillary clinton -- >> andrea, you whispered to me that this was the biggest moment of the night. let's watch it. this exchange, where hillary slammed republicans on the benghazi e-mails and then shake bernie mccann because he said something in support. >> this committee was part of the republican national committee. it is a partisan vehicle, as admitted by the house republican majority leader, mr. mccarthy him up to drive down my pole numbers. big surprise. that's what they have attempted to do. i am still standing. i am happy to be part of this debate, and i intend to keep

talking about the issues that matter to the american people. but tonight i want to talk not about my e-mails but about what the american people want from the next president. >> senator sanders? >> the secretary is right. and that is that the american people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails. >> thank you. me too, me too. >> enough of the e-mails. let's talk about the real issues facing america. [ cheering and applause ] >> thanks, bernie. >> well, that was pure personality right there. enough already. it was the enough already, and it was charming. >> and it was a moment where he could tap into her popularity. he has said he didn't want to attack her personally. part of it is tactical because he knows she's popular.

he got a standing ovation. a handshake from clinton. i thought there will -- clinton went after him on guns. that was a clear distinction where she really challenged him, and she had him cold. >> let's watch that. this is where we queue it up. not everybody watched it on the other network. hillary clinton didn't has a right hesitate going after sanders on gun control. let's watch this. >> is bernie sanders tough enough on guns? >> no, not at all. we have to look at the fact that we lose 90 people per day. this has gone on too long. it's time the entire country stood up against the nra. senator sanders did vote five times against the radio bill. since it was passed, more than 2 million prohibited purchases have been prevented. he also did vote, as he said, for this immunity provision. i voted against it. i was in the senate at the same time. it wasn't that complicated to me.

it was pretty straightforward to me that he was going to give immunity to the only industry in america. everybody else has to be accountable, but not the gun manufacturers. we need to stand up and say come enough of that. were not going to let that continue. >> all the shouting in the world is not going to do what i would hope all of us want, and that is keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have those guns and end this horrible violence that we are seeing. >> i think hillary got him on that. she was going after him on an issue if you had to make an ideological statement, she was to his left. he wasn't comfortable defending that position. >> exactly. she was vulnerable to fit in her shift, taking a lot of heat for explaining her past comments. 30, 40 comments, praising this trade deal and calling it the gold standard. without reading the text, slamming it and clearly going to the left. >> who was worst?

chafee said he voted against it. >> he didn't know what he was voting for. >> he said it was a new vote for me. tom, the hillary clinton seem most comfortable on the aggression, on the offense when they came to guns. she is really sticking her neck out on guns. >> she's quite passionate about it. i think she sees the violet that it brings across the country. i think she wanted to have a vigorous debate. martin o'malley jumped in on that question as well. he had brought those two people from colorado, whose daughter was killed in aurora. they pursued a company who had sold 4000 rounds of ammunition on the internet and ended up not only losing it because of that liability provision but then got slapped with attorneys playing the internet sales attorneys fees. i thought he was very passionate as well.

i think this was a place where the democratic party is on the side of gun safety, and i think hillary was just -- >> i want to talk about that for a second. i think bernie was off his strength him out of his comfort zone. hillary made a statement that was hard to dissect. he said, we don't put ground troops, boots on the ground in syria. she said we should lead a coalition to go against isis. how do you do that? how do you do that without troops? >> talking about a no-fly zone to try to protect people who are in serious to be able to remain there and stop aside from barrel bombing people, civilians in syria. i think we are attacking targets in syria with air power we have to get him out and go after him on the ground. that can be done with kurdish

troops, troops from the region. >> really? >> you think that has been successful? >> do i think it has been successful? no. that is what she is arguing. she is arguing that you need to build a coalition. >> help me out here. isn't there a conflict? >> especially when the saturdays and others who should have a stake in sending money to the opposition and not willing to put boots on the ground. it has been a failure. she has been more hawkish on a lot of foreign policies. with a broad base of the left side of the democratic hearty thomas sanders is probably more in tune with them. she has some explaining to do about her role as senator. >> if i am joe biden, and we all like him personally, i would be thinking she did a damn good job defending the centerleft. it i don't think we need another

candidate there. >> that very important audience of one has to be sitting there thinking she great job. >> challenged the socialists. >> she showed where she is a progressive that gets results. i don't see this. she did something that i thought was very interesting. she came in start to fish that she would be the very first president. i thought in a very deft and somemes subtle, sometimes not-so-subtle way. that is another thing he must be thinking about. and i going to get in there and jump on the first woman president? >> was that tactical to remind everybody she would be the first woman president? >> if you look at that stage, it's just the reality. >> one -- >> that was an odd stage. >> not a whole lot of diversity. >> i didn't understand the people at both ends. >> let me ask a question. yahoo news caught him in the

hall. he was quoted, it's been written up, that he said rather tough statement. joe biden, it's time for him to make up his mind. do you want to explain what you meant? you sounded impatient. >> was that tonight? >> yes. >> i was asked a question, the premise of which was, is he going to wait for the benghazi hearings? i said i thought that was probably not the criteria which one would make their mind up on. i think it is time for him to make up his mind. >> okay. the only question i have. back to the debate. >> we are all friends, but at some point he has to make up his mind. >> hillary clinton was surprisingly smart and strong in challenging the ideology. i know you are not supposed to. she challenged the guy and said, we don't want to be denmark. denmark is a little country.

it's not a superpower that doesn't have to defend the west. it doesn't have the historic role we play in the world. it may have an odd to say we should be like denmark and norway. we are americans. >> it is odd. >> it has never been done before. >> he made some good points about we are the only nation that lives without things that other western nations take for granted. >> can i say something nice about hillary? she stood up for the democratic party. thank you. >> the first time she had a chance to get past e-mails and benghazi and show her stuff on policy. >> i think we will see a lot of passion coming out of the bernie sanders campaign. it i think they love what they heard from him tonight. he was talking to them very effectively. thank you, andrea mitchell. thank you, joan walsh. thank you mr. chairman, john podesta, of the hillary clinton for president campaign. i am going to speak to martin o'malley coming up. up. stay with us for this hour and the eastern coast edition of hardball on this wild night in vegas.

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rural and urban. have you been to the eastern shore? have you ever been to western maryland? we were able to pass this and respect the hunting traditions of people live in our rural areas. we did it by meeting with principal, not by pandering to the nra. i have been asked by the nra. >> you have not been in the united states congress. check it out. >> wow. welcome back to hardball. the first democratic debate. you saw a debate moment there. i am joined by one of the people involved from a martin o'malley. everybody would say senator sanders is on the left of the party of all the candidates. you may disagree. but you caught him on gun control. you challenged his positions. >> thanks. i think that's what a good debate is about. it i have a lot of respect for him. a lot of the things that he is saying about big money taking over politics and wall street and our failures as a party to deliver on what people expected, but i disagree with him on this issue.

i know that we are the only nation on the planet that varies as many of our people from gun violence as we do every year, and this sickness has to be addressed. there's comprehensive, common sense things we can do. i was hoping that on the stage tonight but maybe we did to my maybe we can forge a new consensus tonight. >> was he defending the world areas? the big cities are not the finding that. we have guns coming from all around the country because the world states. >> i looked at a report of the guns that were seized in new york, guns that were used in crimes a new york. i looked at the top ten states. many of them were from far away. virginia was one of them. maryland was not on that list. >> anyway, during the debate thomas secretary clinton called you a friend and then mentioned you endorsed her back in thousand 8.

here is a little back and forth. >> you know come up i have to say i was very pleased when when governor o'malley endorsed me for president in 2008, and i enjoyed his strong support in that campaign, and i consider him come obviously, a friend. >> there you have it. she said if you really liked her you would have stuck with her. >> yeah. i know. it's hard to, isn't it? i have a great deal of respect for her. >> better you than her. >> i was prepped to have an oyster eight years ago. >> what has changed? >> the wall street crass is one of those things that has changed. glass-steagall, separating these megabanks that sll have us on the hook. >> separate commercial from investment banking. >> they work for 70 years. when it was repealed, those six biggest banks went from controlling 20%, equivalent of

20% of gdp to over 65%. >> you make a good point there. what do you think of sanders same tonight, senator sanders, that wall street regulates congress and not the other way around? >> i think he made a very good point. it's like having out coupon in charge of the chicago police budget. the way that they have influenced and reduced and made cuts to the sec and the police who should be on wall street, he made a very good point. there were a lot of good points made today. >> please come back to hardball. >> thanks a lot. >> tonight, lincoln chafee was asked about his criticism of hillary clinton's use of private e-mails, which he had called a huge issue. let's wash link. >> we have to repair credibility after we said saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction.

there is credibility out there. anytime someone is running to be our leader and a world leader, which the american president is, credibility is an issue. out there with the world. we have to prepare for it to be done. we need someone who has the best in ethical standards as our next president. that's how i feel. >> secretary clinton, do you want to respond? >> no. >> i am joined by eugene robinson. the former senior strategist for john mccain's 2008 campaign. let's go inside to chief and then steve. who won? >> hillary clinton won. i thought she had a very good night. there was a level of poise and polish that you just didn't see any other four candidates. she has done it umpteen times before. she knew what to expect and how to bring it. she was kind of in control and in command pretty much throughout. she scored some points against bernie sanders on guns, on

ideology and talking about capitalism and how to she is essentially in favor of mainstream capitalism. that's what made this country great. she distinguished herself from sanders in that way. she slammed down o'malley in that clip that you played. and she introduced some new policy positions. it almost is an aside. she talked about a new new deal of communities of color. i think a lot of people will want to hear more about that. i thought she had a very good night. >> good eye for her. steve, how did you see it? >> i thought it was a big night for hillary clinton. that e-mails, the public response, she was in her element, she came fighting off the ropes. it i think she tactically did a couple of the things tonight. first thing she did, she denied an open lane to joe biden. i think that joe biden sitting in the vice presidency residence

watching this tonight can't have any other conclusion that she did a very good job. not sure what his window into the race is. >> i agree. >> second thing she did effectively in this debate was that she denied bernie sanders an opening to make this an ideological contest. there were differences. there were differences on wall street. there were differences on guns between the two, but they were close enough to each other ideologically that i think it's very difficult for her to be exposed in an ideological context, which would be very dangerous for her. she moved to the left effectively enough from the centrism of the clinton presidency, which was a right of center presidency. she has moved to the centerleft effectively. you saw the it seconds of those positions by that debate audience tonight. >> see, now i sort of agree with that. i thought it was between a reformer, hillary clinton tonight, and free enterprise,

whatever, market system, and a guy who kept calling for a revolution. a structural change in power. i thought she filled the role that put joe biden wanted to play tonight. therefore he may not be necessary. your thoughts? >> steve schmidt is right. it's that centerleft position that she occupied very effectively. she said, look, we are not denmark. we are not going to be denmark. we are the united states of america. denmark's solutions are not all the right ones for the united states. i think that will strike a chord with people. she just knew what she was doing on that stage. she really did. she knew when to inject a bit of wind when chafee brought up the e-mails. she just said no. that was probably the biggest laugh of the evening. she knew when to be kind of

tough and pointed. look, i think a lot of republicans looked at that performances and said, okay, wow, this is what we are likely going to have to deal with next year. and its formidable. >> i think they will prefer to run against denmark after tonight. anyway, now for some low lights of the evening, if you will. lincoln chafee offering a somewhat that response to a question about a previous vote he made in the senate. he said he was too green to think. let's watch. >> governor chafee, you have attacked secretary clinton to being too close to wall street. you voted for the bill that made thanks bigger. >> that was my very first vote. i had just arrived, my dad had died. >> are you saying you didn't know what you are voting for? >> i just arrived in senate. i think you get some takeovers. it was 95 -- 92-5.

>> what does that say about you that you're casting a vote for something you weren't sure about? >> i think you are being a little rough. i just arrived. i had been there in my dad had died. i was appointed by the governor. it was the first vote. >> jim web spent a large part complaining about not getting equal treatment. equal time. here he is. >> people are going back and forth here for ten minutes. >> secretary clinton, respond. >> first about rushed out. yes, you will be next. she was directly quoted. >> i have been sending over here for about ten and it's. i will say this -- >> you are over your time. >> you have let a lot of people go over there time. with respect to the financial specter. i know my time has run out could i have been speaking of changing positions on how this debate has occurred. it's frustrating because on the somebody mentions by name i can't be in the discussion. >> you are wasting time. if you would finish your answer. >> i'm trying to set a market so maybe we can get under it more.

it hasn't been equal time. >> i have a great guest here. bernie sanders joining us from the debate. we are in the spin room, a postmodern reference to anything. i was telling everybody i thought you won. it all these guys are arguing with me. i thought you had a constant theme tonight, which was the role of huge running american politics corrupting the system and the need for some kind of redressing and the whole thing. it was a constant thing. can that win the election? >> the fact that the wealthy are getting richer, the fact that almost all new income and wealth in this country is going to the top 1%, the fact that now as a result of citizens united that the winners and millionaires are spending huge amounts of monies to elect the candidates of their choice, that is the issue. how do we create an economic system which works for the middle class, not billionaires?

how do you create a tickler system where everybody can participate equally and the coke brothers can't spend $900 million? >> i know the game they play and you are not playing it. they don't know about pacs him of the superpacs. they don't know anything about it. do you think they are part of the corruption? hillary has got one. >> more than one am actually. >> is that corrupt? >> i think it is correct. >> >> it she corrupt? >> she is doing it. >> no. you are not. >> i have put my money where my mouth is. it i have said no. i do not represent the billionaire class. i don't want to take their money. superpacs are distorting american democracy, undermining american democracy. >> didn't obama start this, saying i'm going with the money because i got more? >> everything leads to everything else. the point is that right now the system is corrupt.

we have to overturn citizens united. in my view, we have to move to public funding of elections. that's my view. >> everything you stand for is what i have believed for in the '60s it's familiar. >> i know i'm older. >> i'm not getting cynical. everything you said would be called classic politics. you can't engage in class politics. a bunch of kids, people our age. gung ho, loving what he said about billionaires. what has changed in the last couple cycles that now it's fair game? people think there is something wrong with the billionaires calling the shots? >> what has changed? >> there are more billionaires. >> the reality of american life. we are seeing the proliferation of millionaires and billionaires. they are all over the place. meanwhile, the average worker is working longer hours for lower wages. we have more kids, higher percentage of childhood poverty than any other country.

people are saying enough is enough. we need a system, a political system, economic model that works for all of us and not just very top. >> why don't more people get -- adelson out here at the venetian making billions. he has this little bird chirping for him, marco rubio. >> that's right. >> who will sing his sister need tiffany to get his sweet money. >> why are these people. >> he offends people as a sock puppet. doesn't that bother people? >> it should. one family spending more money than the democratic hearty. >> how many democrats are making tons of money giving them to the democrats? >> you said that wall street regulates congress. i thought that was your best line. i thought your most powerful line tonight was congress doesn't regulate wall street. most people believe that. >> of course. it's true. >> why are you not leading the

race? >> if i was sitting here with you five months ago you would have said, you are a nice guy, but you are a fringe candidate. admit it. >> yeah. >> okay. >> i would have said half of it. >> i am not a fringe candidate. we are winning in a few states and gaining. i think we are doing better and have a real shot. >> you used some great language in rousing your people. you used revolution. that used to scare people. we are not going from a pure market system where money rules to something different. >> yes. i think we see some models out there. yes. >> you cannot say denmark again. >> i'm not going to say denmark. >> denmark it's going to give you trouble. >> honorary citizenship or something. >> it's one country that really likes us. >> i think everybody knows, it's not complicated. everybody understands there is something wrong when we are the wealthiest country in the

history of the world and very few people know that because they are working longer hours for lower wages and can't afford to send their kids to college, can't afford childcare. the people of this country, in my view him understand that we have to take on the big-money interests. we need millions of people to begin to stand up and fight back. that is what my campaign is about. >> after all this obama care, we will end up with a single-payer system at some point. it's simple and most efficient. >> that's right. >> where does the financing -- you are probably a paperboy pretty start as a paperboy and have your first job at a drugstore. by the time you are 65 or 70 you have worked 50 years for your medicare. how do you do it if you have health care for everybody their whole lives? where does that money come from? >> first of all, it comes from you not having to pay for private private. >> that works financially? >> we are spending our dysfunctional system is the most

expensive per capita in the entire world. >> i agree with that. >> perfect. i should probably go out. >> you got to go. this is part of the spin move. thank you for coming. >> thank you. >> i think he got a lot of applause for his people. there was a difference between him and secretary clinton. everybody else disagrees with me. thanks. up next, trump and the gop reacts. he is tweeting like a bird. this is hardball, the place for politics live from vegas and the first democratic debate. ,, ♪ ♪ ♪ the beautiful sound of customers making the most of their united flight.

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iraq vote, e-mails, et cetera. in the trans -- the trade deal is a disaster. she is always for it. reacting to the debate, there is no star on the stage tonight adding, can anyone imagine chafee as president? no way. that was cheap. trump read tweeted a user's on it that says hillary clinton is a criminal. i feel bad for the other candidates, especially the noncriminal ones. it was announced today that trump will host "saturday night live" on november 7th coming up. i am joined by mr. vegas him of the legendary singer, wayne newton. i wish i saw more of him. he is placing his bets on donald trump. that earned him a personal thank you to from him saying, such a doesn't surprise. so nice. thank you very much. tonight was not a great night for trump, but he did get a few references. my thoughts for you is, this

show business thing, the fact that he did apprentice all those years and the fact that he is a prime time nbc all those years. what does that give him? >> it gives him a major as in terms of dealing with what is going to resonate to the public. when you are doing those kinds of shows, of course, if you mess up, they just want you to redo it and here are the facts concerning that. when you have that kind of background, like someone i know, seated next to me, you are able to take those questions and turn them to your advantage. donald is brilliant with that. >> what is the essential thing that you think has made trump the republican front-runner? he is beating the heck out of people like bush going nowhere. people like governor of texas and wisconsin. he is knocking them off one at a time and has never held office. why is a guy who has never held office killing the

establishment? >> the reason that is happening. >> you are in establishment guys. >> i am an establishment guy. the reason that's happening is people are so sick of politics as usual. you saw some of that tonight. >> yeah. >> it was politics as usual. when the chips were down, they called hillary out, the other candidates, you know. >> why do you think they were building her up? >> i think that it's because. >> you think she's been on many? "d" the democratic party is more important than this election. the republicans haven't figured that out yet. >> your party is having a problem picking a leader. >> well -- >> they have a candidate named trump, but they haven't been able to pick a speaker. >> what you just said is the true crux of it all. this time we have to pick a leader.

it i did not see one up there tonight. >> okay. >> there are some among the republicans, leaders proven. >> you like trump all the way, right? >> i like trump. i like brush. i like carson. i like the lady. i think she's great. >> fear arena. >> yeah. i think that the country is ready for somebody who is simply telling us the truth and not, well, i voted and then i voted and then i wrote this. >> is it okay for a guy like adelson out here, a zillionaire, that he can pick a candidate like marco rubio and say he's my man and have millions of bucks? is that a good system? >> if you remember, he also picked a candidate in the last election. >> newt gingrich. >> and spent millions of books, and it didn't work. i think that attitude is underestimating the intelligence of the american people a little

bit. >> we agree on that. >> thank you. >> that beautiful women, cathleen, your wife, the camera can't get over there fast enough. thank you. it should get over there. i am joined right now by michael steal, former chair of the rnc and howard fineman, editorial director of the huffington post. first michael steele, from the rnc chair, who won tonight? >> i think it was very clear that hillary stood amongst her rivals in a big way. in many respects, she just moved herself further to the left. she tried to prove her as a progressive to make sure that she created that distance between her and burning and basically say to the base writ large that, hey, it's okay. i'm one of you too. i don't think that will sell in large number. she did what she had to do tonight. >> let me go to howard. we heard a couple things.

you heard it from me, which hillary stood up against a left wing purity. i do believe in free-market. i do believe in middle size business and the american economy benefiting the american people, benefiting for the market system. we don't need socialism here. pure socialism. at the same time it was said tonight that she effectively co-opted to the left because she said, basically, i am not so far from bernie to be going to bernie. >> i'm not sure i agree with that. here's what i think happened. >> which part? i think you are adversarial. >> i think that hillary won the inside political game here. basically she showed joe biden that there's no room for him to enter the race. >> yeah. >> she reassured her donors and her supporters that she's on her game, that she said prepared, that she's top policies and knows how to deal with bernie tactically and on issues, as you

say, by calibrating to the left and so forth, being a reformer and not a revolutionary. bernie sanders tonight, i think moran the outsider game. he reinforced and strengthened himself as an outsider candidate. ideologically different from donald trump except from there mutual agreement about taking on bad guys. for donald trump that is big government, immigrants, the chinese. for bernie sanders, it's wall street and the big banks. your producer, chris, one of your producers, showed me a fascinating fever chart of this debate in terms of google searches. the intensity of interest in bernie sanders as reflected by the google searches outstripped every other candidate by a factor of 2-1. what that shows me is that the

intensity of interest in his message is it enough to win a general election? as a democratic socialist? i don't know, but there are two worlds that are talking past each other here. hillary solidified her world. bernie solidified his. the rest don't matter on that stage. of more confrontations to come. >> well that's good to affect who shows up in the caucuses and primaries. there is a model here. it is mcgovern and muskie back in at '72. she has the mcgovern here. lookout, muskie. thank you. up next, what will tomorrow's headline say about tonight's debate? stay up late with us tonight. eastern time, of course. the best of vegas after midnight coming here. this is hardball's coverage of the first democratic debate live from vegas. today is my view that when you have three largest banks in america are much bigger than

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are you a progressive or moderate? >> i'm a progressive, but i am a progressive that likes to get things done, and i know how to find common ground, and i know how to stand my ground, and i approve that is every position i have had. >> looking back to hardball. live from las vegas for the first democratic debate.

heller clinton forcefully defining herself. it was a long and tough debate. who were the winners and losers? what is the headline tomorrow morning in the newspapers? old question but a great one. the three major dailies, ashley parker with the times and heidi priscilla and joining us robert costa. i don't think we have a journal person here. we will survive. your thoughts about the headline? everybody thinks hillary held her own. there wasn't a loss. some people thought she did better than that. >> study night for secretary clinton. appealed to her base and reassured donors. bernie sanders remains a favorite. he connected and had a tough exchange on guns. otherwise really connected on the economic issues on the banks. >> you think he's the favorite? what do you mean? >> when i am out on the campaign trail, base voters want to hear more about breaking up the banks.

they want to hear tough rhetoric on wall street. to the donor last, hillary clinton came right at them. bernie sanders is with the soul of the party right now. >> wow. let me go to ashley. what do you think? >> exactly as you said. >> what's the headline? >> hillary won by not actively losing trade she did not let her character and credibility get impugned. she was able to attack bernie sanders in a way she has a before without elevating him to her level. >> i thought she did that well. i think she challenged him on every point. i thought she kept with him in terms of philosophical purpose, but she wasn't willing to say she was against capitalism. she challenged him. >> she didn't allow a lot of daylight between herself and the other candidates on the stage, including early sanders, on the most important issues to progressives. she went on the offensive. you could see her physically lunging forward as bernie was asked about this position on the guns issue. >> that was a good opportunity to get to his left.

>> absolutely. i think it was effective. he didn't have a great issue. he said, i'm from the vermont. people think of does differently in vermont. >> what i thought watching the debate was that sanders was a extremely effective in a unified theme. every issue, whether it was climate, social security, student wishing costs, it tied into wealth, the billionaires. he does that with a very strong accent of his, billionaires, billionaires, billionaires. they are the problem. i think it was a populist message. in the old days people would have said that is class politics. nobody is saying that anymore. your thoughts? >> we keep hearing about the evolution of secretary clinton. she was polished and steady tonight. . is so was senator sanders. i have been covering him for a year. didn't off the campaign with this kind of appearance and presence on a national stage. he has developed as a candidate. we see him turning back again and again to a strength.

>> that's what i thought too. ashley parker, thank you, thank you heidi and robert. this is hardball's coverage of the first democratic debate. we will bring you another live our of this wild night in vegas with more candidates tonight, the best analysis in the best of vegas, including rich little. this you will love. the top oddsmaker in las vegas to tell us who he's betting on in 2016. that's coming up right after this. ♪

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♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews live again for another hour from las vegas. we have much more on the just show in vegas tonight. all the highlights and low lights for the first democratic presidential debate. the top oddsmaker in this town will tell us who he's betting on for 2016. as all at the corner of the showcase between the reformer and the race. race that i would call that hillary clinton and the guy talking revolution, actually using that word, bernie sanders. how did they do tonight? what about joe biden watching from his home in washington? did he see anything tonight to tip his decision whether or not to jump into the race? shortly after the debate the began, clinton and sanders clashed on the question of, i love this, capitalism. >> i think we should look at countries like denmark, like

swinging and norway and learn from what they have accomplished for their working people. >> i don't think we should confuse what we have to do so often in america, which is save capitalism from itself. and i think what senator sanders is saying certainly makes sense in the terms of the inequality that we have, but we are not denmark. i love denmark. we are the united states of america, and at our job to rein in the excesses of capitalism so that it doesn't run amok and doesn't pause the kind of inequities that we are seeing in our economic system. but we would be making a grave mistake to turn our backs on what to the greatest middle class in the history in the world. >> senator sanders? >> powerful report. hillary clinton challenged sanders on his gun rights. >> is bernie sanders tough enough on guns? >> no, not at all. i think we have to look at the fact that we lose 90 people a day from gun violence. this has gone on too long and is time the entire country stood up

against the nra. senator sanders did go five times against the brady bill. since it was passed more than 2 million prohibited purchases have been prevented. he also did vote, as he said, for this immunity provision. i voted against it. i was in the senate at the same time. it wasn't that complicated to me. >> that's a good line. one of the most talked about moments was this exchange about hillary clinton's e-mails. >> this committee is basically an arm of the republican national committee. is a partisan vehicle. [ applause ] >> as admitted by the house republican majority leader, mr. mccarthy, to drive down my pole -- poll numbers. big surprise. that is what they have attempted to do. i am still standing. i am happy to be part of this debate. i intend to keep talking about

the issues that matter to the american people. tonight, i want to talk not about my e-mails but about what the american people want from the next president in the united states. >> secretary is right. and that is that the american people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails. >> thank you. me too, me too. >> enough of the e-mails. let's talk about the real issues. >> thank you, bernie. thank you. >> that was like jumping over the net in a tennis game, wasn't it? congratulate your opponent. it i am joined by casey hine, host of roasted live, john rolston, and the daily mail's first test is chambers. let's talk about a couple of them. it also could be possible that ernie sanders roust his troops and built his party.

>> i think they both had standout moments tonight. there's no doubt that when he said the thing about her e-mails, that was a standout moment. one person you didn't mention is martin o'malley. i don't think he showed up tonight. what he should have done tonight to stay in this race. >> you say stay in the race. >> to stay in the race. he needed to have some standout moments himself. he didn't really have those moments. i think the voters were probably looking for them. >> o'malley tried to do that early on and contrast himself. he jumped into the gun debate and said he was the alternative to hillary, not bernie sanders. it he didn't do what he needed to do. i agree with francesca. i think ernie roust his troops. i don't think he expanded his base. >> even with a bigger audience on tv tonight? 5, 10 million people watching tonight. >> i don't think he showed anything that would sway people from thinking hillary clinton is the best choice for the democrats. she towered over everybody.

>> first of all, let's remind everybody it's 100% democratic audience tonight. we are dealing with people who want to cheer. they just waiting for went to cheer. your thoughts about the hillary cloud you went to in a room here, and there was a sanders room. >> of sanders and hillary clinton had conference rooms filled with supporters. bernie sanders's room a little less organized than hillary clinton's. everybody sprawled out, a lot of robin hood costumes, pretty classic bernie sanders. they flew in some nurses from around the country. i think that the words not white much of a looming mood but a little bit of concern. there was a lot of cheering after the wall street. >> what turned on their coast? >> gun control. i spoke to supporters in the first commercial break her in the debate we said we straight up do not agree with bernie sanders on this issue. i think you saw from hillary clinton a pretty calculated move and play. >> you know how they say to use a bayonet in battle?

if you go in, squeeze it. turn it a few times. she turned it a few times. >> and she was waiting for that. >> that was the first time i ever used a bayonet. >> very accurate it. she knew that guns were the issues that she could really divide bernie from her. she did it very well. you showed in the answer there. it was a very good answers. >> it was fortunate a came up so early on. i think it set the tone for the rest of the debate. >> for bernie's fans, we will play it in moments. he hammered one of his campaign's main themes, inequality of income and going after the inner class. here is how he answered the question about his political philosophy. let's watch. >> you don't consider yourself a capitalist, though? >> do i consider myself part of the casino capitalists process, by which so few have so much and so many have so little? by which wall street's greed and recklessness record this economy?

no, i do not. i believe in a society where all people do well, not just a handful of leaders. >> francesca. i think it makes -- i think i heard the word billionaire more times than i have ever heard. it was never once used nice. >> i think he wanted to use it more ace on what he said toward the end of the debate. it hillary clinton was trying to position herself to the left of her stance, that is the one movement i would point to where it's kind of hard to beat left. >> this is a very successful night for her. you are saying she thought she moved left enough to keep up and co-opt the crowd. i think she helped center well enough on the philosophical debate about free markets to keep joe biden out of the race. do you think she did both? that's a lot of bandwidth. >> i simply. i'm not convinced that this debate is what joe biden was waiting for to get into this race. >> what is he waiting for? the deadline for georgia is the 20 ninth of this month.

at some point he can't get in the race. >> that's true. we talked about this. getting into the debate -- getting into the race before now means that he would have had to debate. i don't think he wanted to be on that stage with all of them. i don't think that her having a bad night would keep him out either. >> outside of any personal considerations that we can't get inside his mind or his heart and what he's going through. if there are no personal considerations, there is nothing he could have seen that would say, okay, i'm jumping in. >> there is one personal consideration called ambition. he has wanted to be president since he was 28 or 29. >> of course, yes. he has been running for president since nineteen eighty 8. >> since he ran for the senate at the age of 29, before it was legal to be a senator. >> i am talking about -- >> what about just after getting into the race? >> the reality is, if he was waiting for a moment of weakness, or if this debate would you rate a setting where all of a sudden pundits were

saying hillary clinton is so weak that there is a significant open, it did not happen. she absolutely did. that chatter about how biden needed to make this decision and get it over with is only going to increase. >> i think he will look late now. hillary clinton was asked about her evolving position on key quality positions. it's water. >> plenty of politicians evolved on issues, but even some democrats believe you change your positions based on political expediency. you are against same-sex marriage, now you are for it. you supported the trade deal dozens of times, even called it the gold standard. now last week you are against 8. will you say anything to get elected? >> i have been very consistent over the course of my entire life. i do absorb new information. i do look at what's happening in the world. take the trade deal. i did say when i was secretary of state three years ago that i hoped it would be the gold standard.

it was just finally negotiated last week, and in looking at it, it didn't meet my standard. >> do you change your political identity based on who you are talking to? >> no. i think what most people that i know, i have a range of views, but they are rooted in my values and my experience. >> are you a progressive or moderate? >> i am a progressive, but i'm a progressive that likes to get things done, and i know how to find common ground and how to stand my ground. i approve that in every position that i have had. >> that was so nuanced, so center goal. i am a progressive just like him, but i know how to get things done. i am not someone in the middle. i stand for things but can work with the other side to get things done. that was pretty sharp. >> right, but -- >> i think it has pulled very well. >> i will say that the line of questioning that anderson cooper took there is exactly what is animating a lot of these bernie sanders supporters. when he asked her if she change

her position over and over, they cheered. they were chanting all throughout this debate, bernie said it first, talking about these progressive issues progressive issues. when she answered the question question come i am a progressive could someone shouted, yeah, as of this week you are a progressive, but not previously. >> francesca, does that her people? >> she didn't deny in that answer that she actually changed her position. she said she has taken on new information and part of the reason that she changed her position on the trade issue is because now that she has seen it -- >> does anybody believe this? >> that she ching position because of that? said "b" substance on policy. do you believe the people in the world think that she has shifted after all these years of being for the trade pact and all for the cadillac tax and taking other positions that she somehow has become more of a lefty? do you believe that is richard trumka, the file cio? >> well --

>> to her political benefit. >> but -- >> she justin say the experience was getting the phone call from richard trumka. >> not once has she shifted toward a position that might cause her trouble with a democratic situates the group. all of them have been toward adding support for the usual crowd. >> she has learned the lesson that she needed to learn in 2008. when she ran against barack obama. >> what was that lesson? >> look who's in the white house. >> where would she disagree? >> i think she was the person in that race at the time. president obama was running on -- >> don't put iraqi in the politics. it is fundamental. people against that war are against it imprintable. i don't know what group in the democratic artie benefited from it i being against the war.

all the money and push in the congress was to get into another dodd damn war. it always was, same with the gulf war or the push is always to go to war. >> back on the issue of trade, you asked me about richard trumka. i just wanted to insert that the afl-cio has not made an endorsement yet in this race. i do think that she is very concerned about a joe biden getting in. i do think she is trying to get that and/or cement, which we gave her 13 million votes from democrats, potentially. she changed her position on trade because now that she has seen what is actually in the deal, it doesn't mean her standards. >> is anybody going to change their policy and positioning after this? >> political position as far as this? >> hillary saying i have to fine tune. >> i think that -- >> is this her night? >> i think she comes out feeling like she is prepared for this the way she has needed to prepare for this. it i took my swings and am filling the role that we have

all been waiting for her to step up into. there has been this undercurrent. every time we criticize her for her e-mails and something comes along. they say she is still likely the most likely next president of the united states. >> she needed to reassure people tonight. >> hillary land will be an enthusiastic move. >> i think they will. they won't even be faking it. >> already smiling. >> we have had them come in. the guy. the bernie people think they won. >> yeah. sanders did have a good night. he stepped up and did what he needed to do. it's clear that he will be in this race for a while. >> will the race be tighter after this? between bernie and hillary? >> i don't think so. >> i think it will be tighter by three points. thank you, casey hunt. exactly three points. thank you. i'm going to speak with former u.s. senator, lincoln chafee, about the debate he was just in

tonight. later, the top vegas oddsmaker predicts winners for the nomination and the 2016 election. that's all coming tonight. don't go to bed. this is hardball's coverage of the first-ever democratic debate live from las vegas.

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good evening. i'm chris matthews live on the spin room. that's what they call it, at the

former governor from rhode island, lincoln chafee. thank you very much. you were talking about what's going after you for switching parties. the republican party, i think you were dead right. it is in a northeastern party any more at all. >> for the sergeants and chafee be smack and chatted and rockefellers. even eisenhower problem winning the welcome in the party. >> he switched to independent and got elected governor. now you became a democrat. where are you? i thought hillary was a reformer. i thought bernie sanders was talking revolution and real structural change. that was the term for the for the '60s, structural change. that is serious business about not depending on markets as much as other actions. where are you in that spectrum? >> i am in favor. the only candidate in favor of obama's trade deal. i have been -- >> democrats used to be a free trader, the kennedy browns. >> i think clinton and nafta.

>> how do you continue a campaign that looks like -- i am responsible because i see it as a hillary versus bernie fight right now. i think it will be an interesting fight. i wonder other people are winnowing. >> no, no, no. in 2,004, john kerry was nowhere in december, nowhere. then he won iowa and new hampshire at the end of january, a month later. >> he had the troops, though. >> you can say what you want. >> i saw that and i what. >> he was nowhere in december, though. we are only in october. >> you think you have a shot. >> history shows that if you hang around, anything can happen. john kerry is the most recent example. i guess gary hart, the 1984 race after monkey business. different things happen. >> how long are you going to be in this race? >> as long as i have money. >> how long do you think you can make it?

>> the less i have, the more i have to drive and walk. >> thank you. thanks for coming on. good luck. thank you, lincoln chafee. raoult has endorsed bernie sanders and joins us. congressman, there has been a debate about who won. people were telling us, bernie won in some kind of pole that was just taken. what is your thinking about tonight? >> i think bernie did well. i think bernie had to stay to the message. he introduced the messenger to the people, and he did that. the issues that came up that were difficult for him, he handled. i felt that he did well. he was up on a stage as more than and equal with everybody else. four months ago he wasn't a beat on anybody's radar. now he is formidable. now he is there. i feel very good about how he did and the fact that his message got heard by a lot more people today.

>> would you make about the words he used? his words, not the socialist label. i think that was dealt with. words like, we need a resolution? he said to me that we need structural change. that is a shift away from the market system. we have to get more like denmark and the northern european countries with their social democracies. will that spoke the american center? >> i don't think so. i think bernie also talks about -- we talk about structural change, ending institutional discrimination. those kinds of concepts are about humanizing our government and how we do business as a government. it is not about usurping and changing a system to the point that we don't recognize it. it's about -- we are in a situation now economically and in terms of social divisions in this country that there is a need for structural reform and trained.

institutionally, and the way we invest in the people in america. that is what bernie has been talking about. you cannot continue to have this economic divide. this concentration of wealth and pretend that we are not going to make the situation economically in this country for the future generations worse than it is now. >> you have probably been working on tax bills since you got to the house and know about these issues on finance and how they get to be. is there enough wealth at the top that can be taxed, taxable income, money to get your hands on, is there enough to pay for a universal health care system that makes it a right to the american people from birth to death. cami pay for tuition of public colleges? cambium our social security checks? and you do all that with the wealth that you can actually tax at the top? >> once you create fairness in the taxation system in which the middle class and working folks and the poor don't end up having

to pay the vast majority of the taxes in this country, you shift the burden. shifting that burden, you also asked people to pay their fair share. the top 1%, corporate america, has done really, really well in possibly some of the worst economic times in this country. to ask them for the sake of the nation and the american people to balance that and to pay for the investments we have to make for the future, i don't think that's too much to ask to expand social security, to make sure everybody gets health care. that's the humanizing aspect. i think the american people have come to a conclusion that the way the system is now, it's rigged. number two, that they are spinning their wheels economically. their family's future doesn't look that good. >> that was a message tonight. >> it's resonating, and it's a good point. >> i thought that was the message. he got across tonight.

thank you. anyway, former los angeles mayor, with us right now. he is a clinton supporter. well, you know i have had this debate. there are some who have said hillary won. all the producers and all the guests basically, robert costa hedging from the post saying hillary won. >> nobody asked me a question about prefacing that this was a strong night for hillary clinton. i thought she had a strong opening statement, a strong closing statement, compelling and progressive vision for the future that rewards work and invests in people, stands for the notion that we ought to have health care for all, that we ought to invest in preschools for kids. >> that was a big thing with her. >> family lead come on college affordability. she showed a passion tonight that some people haven't seen and have criticized her for a lack of.

>> she jumped him on guns. >> and she was strong. she was strong throughout. i thought she was illiterate, strong, authentic. this was a good night for hillary. >> you think she mastered the charge or put on the charge that she shifted positions for political reasons on trade and other issues? >> i think she answered it pretty well. that was one of her strongest moments during this debate. mr. anderson isn't easy, wasn't easy on her, but he was very good tonight. she was very good as well. >> let me ask you about the democratic nomination, is there somebody else like biotin that might come in? i think he would be discouraged after watching her tonight. unlike a lot of progressives, she held the center pretty well. she was a reformer without been a revolutionary. i don't think she stared anybody, whereas bernie, with his attack on rich people all the time over and over again, people thinking maybe a little more radical then we are ready for.

it i think, but i'm not sure. maybe they are ready for him. >> i think she had a clear, compelling and progressive you. >> she pushed out -- >> practical, one that could get the job done. one of the reasons why she has the support across the board, particularly among working people and the middle class and among communities of color, is because she has had decades of a track record. she doesn't just get up and debate. she was great tonight. she has a track record to demonstrate that she can get the job done. >> what did you make of her new, new deal? >> i heard that. i thought that was great. she was strong. he consistently throughout the night. >> you will be the next governor of california, right? that's what i hear. >> let me just say, talking about hillary much she was very strong tonight. i think she agrees that the vice president needs to make his own decision.

she clearly is the candidate the republicans fear the most. >> i think so. >> it to see you. >> governor. just kidding. the great mayor of los angeles for many years. a big hillary guy. what happens in vegas is on hardball tonight. the mayor of las vegas once we next. this is hardball, the place for politics. i am live from vegas, the first democratic debate. >> let's just take a minute here and point out that this committee is basically an arm of the republican national committee. it is a partisan. [ applause ] >> vehicle, as admitted by the house minority leader, steve mccarthy. big surprise.

♪ >> welcome back to hardball. we are still in the spin room. everybody has been through here. in case you missed it, just moments ago i spoke with bernie sanders when he came off the stage tonight. he was on message, calling the system corrupt because of the money and citizens united. let's watch. >> i think the system. >> is she correct? >> she's doing what she can within the system. >> that you're not. >> i have chosen to put in a sense my money where my mouth is.

i have said, no, i don't represent the billionaire class. i don't represent corporate america. i'm not going to take their money. superpacs are distorting american democracy and undermining it. >> he also went after the proliferation of billionaires. billionaire is a bad word tonight. it was used over and over again by the senator him and it was never meant kindly. here he is. >> what has changed is the reality of american life. you see a proliferation of billionaires and millionaires you can remember, somebody is a billionaire, wow. now they are a dime a dozen. they are all over the place. the average worker is working longer hours for lower wages. we have more kids, a higher percentage of childhood poverty. people are saying enough is enough. we need a system, a political system, and economic model that works for all of us. >> politics is all about performance on the big stage, you might argue. las vegas knows a thing or two about that. i am joined by folks who run this town, current mayor, carolyn goodman and her husband,

oscar goodman, former mayor. what a tagteam. tonight was a big night. you had the marquee and the big debate tonight. a big picture of hillary. it looked like a fight card. >> absolute best for our community. we are worldwide. everybody is focusing on us because of this great debate. we are so excited and thrilled and can't wait for the final debate and all the rest of the debates that will come back here. >> the old adage that las vegas is not a place that do serious business. nothing is more serious. >> everything is so yielded and brilliant and beautiful. everything is perfect. >> it's not a bad thing to be a billionaire. >> we are about constant innovation and change. every time you come back, i hope you see something new and something better. >> i wanted to see rickles, but he is not on until this weekend. >> please stay. fabulous shows. >> i hear the sinatra show is unbelievable. >> he is phenomenal.

>> rich little is going to be on. >> he's here. >> great for the show. who won tonight? >> i believe it was as expected, but i think they did very well him all of them. >> what a political statement, as expected. >> wait a minute. i am ready to see somebody new jump in, because i think it was expected that the people were looking at hillary. she did a really commendable job. >> yeah. >> each of them had great points. what i wonder about when you talk about free education, who's paying the faculty? who is paying the operating expenses? where is this money -- >> how is it like to have your wife succeed you in office? thinking of the clintons, i think they would like to do that. >> i miss being the mayor every single moment of every single day of my life, but it's better sleeping with her. >> that's he ever call you and say, what should i do? >> absolutely not. >> after 53 years, my mother

said, don't. i love that bernie sanders comment. my mom said, find yourself a rich guy, and i got myself a hard-working, wonderful companion, and here we are 53 years later. and a dynasty, actually. >> the next debate, with all due respect, sweetheart, i know what the problems are. everybody who watches these debates has an interest in what they are doing. i haven't heard one solution in any of the debates so far. >> no solutions. >> nobody is telling us how to reduce the debt, how they will take care of the mentally ill, how to fix the criminal justice system. they throw the ideas out. i don't have to hear that. i'm going to watch the ball game from now on. >> the former philly guy, chase utley, up or down? >> oh, jeez. let's put it this way, i am a tie cobb fan, so i'm with him. >> he was not a nice guy. anyway, i like chase, but i have

a problem with this. thanks to carolyn goodman. what a charmer. what a charmer. you too. former mayor, oscar goodman, who built this place! up next, the line on these democratic candidates, who's going to win it? within the last hour, senator bernie sanders addressing his supporters in a watch party right here at the win hotel. let's watch. >> there was one candidate up there who said that health care should be a right of all people. >> [ cheering and applause ] >> i want to thank the nurses. [ cheering and applause ] >> i want to thank all of you. what you are trying to do, others and sisters, it ain't easy. we are trying to make a political revolution, change the power structure in america.

[ cheering and applause ] >> so that it is the middle class and working families that can influence what goes on in washington and not just a handful of billionaires. [ cheering and applause ] >> this is going to be a club party. they've got the money, but we've got the people. [ cheering and applause ] >> we are going to put together a grassroots campaign, the likes of which no one has ever seen. [ cheering and applause ] >> i have to go to the spin room. thank you all.

♪ hardball on vegas. welcome back to hardball. we are in las vegas. the bookies are expect him millions of dollars in bets to be placed on this presidential race around the world. is the smart money on hillary clinton are bernie sanders? what are the odds after tonight? i am joined by jimmy for cairo, the most legendary bookmaker in las vegas history. joan walsh of the nation, newly of the nation. let me go to jimmy. where do you see this race? >> first of all, thank you for having me on. it's a tough act to follow. if you want some winners, asked oscar. he is in there more than i am. he is quite a character.

what you saw tonight was a softball debate. nothing really has changed. you don't under or overreact after one meeting. it's like march madness, hillary is the favorite. she had a pretty easy first round of it. it's a shame that webb and chafee won't be around for the second debate. you have to move hillary up a bit because she did win. bernie sanders was heard radiused pep rally adviser of the night when he gave her the e-mail. what he said about the e-mails. you have to make her a little bit bigger of a favorite, but everything changes if biting gets in. if he gets in, he is the second favorite. >> i don't know where you get these polls from. i don't know who makes them up.

i always hear scientific. >> the national poles, or we wouldn't put them on. they are usually quinnipiac or one of the major poles. >> don't put down my poles. i like my polls. >> i am in the casino with all these cross-sections coming for the weekend. you get a cross-section of what they are talking about also. he is leading the poles by some things heard it will be very, very close if he enters. i have the 2-1 favorite that he will enter. >> it's talk about this seriousness of betting. there were people at carnegie, caltech, university of pennsylvania economists who agree and approve it that gambling and the way that people bet on an election is a better bet than looking at the polls. if you look at where people are putting their money in a very capitalist system, that will tell you who is winning. do you believe that? when you look at the books, do they show smart money in these elections?

>> absolutely. money changes everything. it changes the odds when you make a bet in las vegas. a lot of people, william hill's, the biggest operation over there, they take in a lot of money on rubio. they had him 11:1 about a month and a half ago. he is down to 5:1. the true test is, people put their money up. i have always said that if we can allow betting on the election, we would have the biggest turnout ever because i have always said if you have a monetary investment in it, you will definitely go vote. money has a lot to do with it. >> i'm sure george washington, the founding fathers, would agree with you. all we need is more money in politics. i'm just kidding. thank you for coming on. it's great to have you want you sound like a smart guy. >> my pleasure. >> let me get back to this again. people do follow politics. who's going to win, very good leading indicator that people will vote for. >> people like winners.

if hillary is perceived as winning, that helps her tonight. ernie did very well. martin o'malley did well. he jumped out of that bottom tier of 1%. but i don't know that he did enough to make a real difference, but he will be on the next stage good i'm not sure the other two will or should. >> hillary clinton did a great job of wrapping tonight. >> yes. >> i don't think bernie did. hillary was cool, slickness, charming enough, certainly, and chased, little bit. she drew the line with the guy, filled the center and a bit of the left. >> yep. >> she really wanted to have a performance that said, you cannot come in to joe biden. that is what she did. bernie roused his people were people who were already roused. i don't know if he expanded the base or not. >> bigger audience tonight. he picked up about three points. >> you are an outlier on that. we would have should have asked jimmy what odds he would give. >> we will see. i will be patient.

what matters is not who says who won it. it's how this innings are afterward compared to how they were before. that's how i know al gore blew it act in 2,000 because he was way ahead going in against george w. bush. people like the board george w. bush. i know it was a mistake. >> people had none of that problem. she was really approachable. she was funny. she was warm. it she took complements. she took the help from bernie sanders. >> he have a did better bait one-on-one? our debates, 2. 5 hours of excelsior? >> this was a much better debate because you got it down to five. you need to get it down to two or three. that is why we hang on every syllable of the three residential debates at the end. >> i thought anderson cooper did a great job. very, very well-prepared. he asked fair, tough questions and followed up. that is what a debate should be. >> he led with the right questions. i thought bernie was very strong.

he hit the billionaire thing very early and the incarceration and climate change, all the big issues very strong. hillary was very good tactically. she adapted to the terrain. she enjoyed the fact that he backed her up. she still has to face the e-mail thing. you are not protecting her. unless it explodes, she's in good shape. >> kevin mccarthy helped her on that front. she will continue to face questions. we know that. she got a chance to talk to the democratic base. we had ace ball going on. lots of things. i think the base got to hear her talk on mostly undirected by the e-mail scandal, nonscandal. >> i think hillary clinton and bernie were more like in the same political party then donald trop and jeb bush are. >> absolutely. >> donald trump isn't in the same universe. >> the democratic party made sense tonight.

>> and they were having a real debate. >> we should be proud. if you are a democrat, be proud. thank you. we will be back again in february. joan, you are sticking with me. >> all right. coverage continues with rich little. we will be here to meet many people, perhaps. no surprise that hillary clinton got the most airtime tonight. 31 minutes. bernie sanders 28 minutes. lincoln chafee got the least, 9 minutes. there were portioning each according to their ability. much more hardball live from vegas right after this.

we are back from us vegas. nickname the man of 200 voices. rich little has impersonated american politicians for decades. he is still a fixture out here in vegas. he also lives and is a native of canada. didn't have a political affiliation until he defended ronald reagan. here now with his reaction of the 2016 field is comedian rich little. the nation's joan walsh is here. >> chris matthews, my gosh. i have met everybody now. >> have you really? >> funny thing that happened. >> you can't do me, though. >> funny thing happened to me in the lobby, a couple came up to me and said, oh, my gosh, can we get a picture? sure. they handed me the camera. >> no. >> yes. >> now you know what it's like. let me ask you about some people.

bill clinton, what would he think butt. >> well, you know, i want to campaign for hillary, but i think she's mad at me because i phoned her and she didn't it up. then i sent her an e-mail and she erased it. >> dr. been carson, slow talking fella. >> ben carson has 8 tiny, little voice. he talks kind of like, you know, i want to be president he has its indoor work and you don't have to lift anything heavy. you know, and i'm going to solve all the problems in america, and, you know, plan my mistakes very carefully. >> he has that little thing, jimmy carter without the accent. >> mystifying slow talk. maybe i have been doing it all wrong. >> he kind of talks like not much energy there. actually, i would rather do johnny carson.

>> i love johnny. >> politicians are like diapers. they should be changed regularly and for the same reason. >> okay. >> so what do you think? >> this thing about the up-and-coming election is i hope people voice -- vote for the people with the best voice. that's all i care about. >> that's usually the case. jimmy carter had the worst voice. >> mccarter, you know, sounded downhill like this, you know. hot damn, jimmy carter was great. when i was president of the united states, i was also a peanut farmer. i met a deal with them and said, you give us all the energy that the oil that our country needs and i will give you all the nuts. then if you cut off your oil,

will cut off your -- >> can you do mr. trump get? >> trump is going to be hard to do. >> is he? >> it's a tough voice to do because he talks 40 miles an hour with gusts up to 120. when there's nothing more to be said, he's usually singing. ronald reagan, i think, would call him agent orange. yes. >> what about hillary? >> welcome i don't do hillary, but neither does bill. >> let's move on. we can't. this is a late night show. we will take that back. rich little, what a charmer you were until then. thank you. and you, joan walsh. this has been hardball's coverage of the first democratic debate. many people think hillary clinton won tonight. it i am chris matthews in vegas. our coverage continues after this.

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>> tonight on "all in," this is a people's campaign and you, brothers and sisters, are part of a political revolution. >> it's debate night in america. >> we should have a good debate that uses accurate information. >> eight years later, hillary clinton returns as the democratic favorite. and faces her first real test as front runner. >> that's my goal. that's what i'm fighting for. i'm going to stand up for that. >> tonight debbie wasserman-schultz had, and more from las vegas.