and you, brothers and sisters, are part of a political revolution. >> the others onstage, o'malley, webb, chafee, all rolling the dice hoping to cash in. good day. i'm andrea mitchell inside the debate spin room where five candidates will meet for the first time in this first democratic debate of 2016. joining me here in las vegas, tonight's host, florida congresswoman and democratic national committee chair, debbie wasserman schultz. madam chairwoman -- >> welcome. >> good to see you. >> you, too. >> this is the first debate. how do you get through this primary season and don't set up a context where whoever is the nominee is going to be so damaged that the republicans are going to win the general election? >> number one, because this isn't the republican primary

where as we saw it play out in the first two debates with 17 and now 15 candidates, they spent the entire debate sniping at one another trying to out right wing one another, trying to out-trump donald trump, talking about kicking immigrants out of the country, taking health care away from americans. our debate tonight, our five candidates are really going to be talking about their different approaches to the same goal which is to help more americans reach the middle class -- >> they disagree on some issues, on guns, for instance. bernie sanders has been against gun laws. hillary clinton, way out in front of barack obama in terms of gun regulation. >> bernie sanders has definitely made it clear that he supports gun safety, he supports background checks. so what tonight will be about is the differing approaches to helping people succeed, helping people be empowered and a more inclusive forward-leaning america so that we can make sure we can continue the 67 months of job growth that have happened under barack obama's administration. >> without donald trump as he points out, he's going to be

live tweeting, he says, without donald trump, without all the fighting, it won't be as interesting. >> we have over 230 debate watch parties all across the country. we are up to 35 nations where there's a debate watch party tonight. there will be tremendous enthusiasm. this is not a reality tv show. our debate is going to focus on our candidates and the very serious issues that americans care about, not, you know, trying to recreate a reality tv show that basically people are tuning in to -- just to watch the chaos. >> what about the man who is not here, the extra podium, the joe biden, will he or won't he. not since mario cuomo in 1991 had a plane on the runway and we didn't know if he was going to actually take off and go to new hampshire and file his candidacy or not, he didn't, has there been so much debate. is he now hamlet in wilmington, not hamlet on the hudson?

>> i think it is obviously a deliberative process one goes through to decide whether to run for president. vice president biden has done this before so he knows what to expect. >> is he hurting the party? is he hurting the party's front-runner, hillary clinton, by dragging this out? >> no, i don't think so. i think all five of our candidates are barreling their way through the democratic primary process. they are each attracting support. this enthusiasm that exists, the crowds that are turning out, the focus on the issues that are important to americans as opposed to the really dramatic extremism that's occurring on the other side gives us an opportunity to show americans the choice that they have. and if vice president biden does decide to join the race, of course he'll be welcome and it will create more interest. >> have you talked to him? >> i have spoken to him many times but obviously as the chair of the party, i'm neutral and would be neutral whether he is in the race or not. >> do you think he's going to get in? >> it is hard to say. only the deliberative process that he's going through will result in the decision he

ultimately makes. my job as chair of the party is to make sure that one, we manage the primary nominating contest effectively. two, that we get the party in the strongest possible position to launch our nominee from philadelphia who will be the 45th president of the united states. >> here's a new draft biden ad done without consultation with the vice president, we are told, airing today. >> my dad never failed to remind us that a job is about a lot more than a paycheck. it's about your dignity. it's about respect. it's about your place in the community. >> what is he waiting for? waiting to see whether hillary clinton falters in the debate, falters in the benghazi committee next week? >> the vice president and his family have just gone through and are still going through the most gut-wrenching horrendous situation that any parent could ever go through in losing a child.

you never want to precede your child in death or, you know, have your child pass before you do, and deciding to run for president is a difficult decision. so i think that he's doing nothing more than any candidate would do or any potential candidate would do. >> is it too late to get in? >> ultimately that's for a candidate to decide. it's our job as the national party to make sure that we're in the strongest position to get ready, to support our nominee and to manage the primary nominating contest which we have been doing. we have so many opportunities for the candidates to be able to showcase. a couple weeks from now we have the women's leadership forum where four of our five candidates will come to talk about the issues important to women. we are very excited about that. >> what about your vice chair, tulsi gabbard, the congresswoman from hawaii, who says you told her she could not come here today. that doesn't sound inclusive. >> that's simply not the case. the congresswoman was asked to focus on our candidates on the issues that are important to americans to draw a contrast

with the republicans -- >> she says there should be more than six debates. >> we are a big tent party and welcome those opinions. this debate and every debate going forward is about the issues. she is continuing to focus on process which she's entitled to do. we asked if she could focus on those issues and she chose not to come because i guess she can't. >> she says that you said she can't come. >> that is simply not the case. what we said as my staff communicated to her staff is that she needed to focus on the issues and make a commitment to do that, and in fact, she said yesterday in a news interview that if she came, she would be a distraction so she chose not to come. >> bernie sanders told chuck todd on "meet the press" that he's a democratic socialist, not a capitalist. can someone who is not a capitalist be a successful democratic general election candidate against any of the republicans? >> bernie sanders has been talking about issues that are important to americans so that they can reach the middle class. he's turned out crowds in large numbers because he's been focused on closing the wage gap,

on equal pay for equal work, on making sure that our economic system is more fair. any one of our candidates, whether bernie sanders or hillary clinton, jim webb, lincoln chaffee -- >> you don't think that's a sound bite? i am not a capitalist, that's going to play out across the television screens of america? >> andrea, americans are longing to continue the 67 straight months of job growth we have had in the private sector under barack obama. what they don't want to do is go back to the failed policies of the past that got us into the worst economic crisis since the great depression. we have got republicans who are saying on the other side that they want to end medicare as we know it, that want to kick immigrants out of this country, that don't care about equal pay for equal work for women, that want to deny women access to health care. that's the contrast. any one of our candidates is talking about moving our country forward and the republicans are obviously all trying to take our country backward. >> debbie wasserman schultz, thank you very much. good luck tonight. joining me now, democratic political analyst, bob shrum and

nbc political analyst and former republican chairman michael steele. would you like to run, i know you're not in the business anymore, you're at usc, but would you like to run a democratic candidate who says i am not a capitalist? >> i think he would have been better off saying, it would have been more accurate, i'm a social democrat. because the truth of the matter is, he's not in favor of government ownership of industries. the sort of caricature we have about socialism. his strength is his authenticity. his weakness, i believe, is whether or not democrats think he can win this election. that's his challenge in this debate. he doesn't do it by talking about polls. he does it by talking about issues that people agree with him on. he looks presidential and he comes across as someone who can be competitive in a general. if he can't do that, if he doesn't do that over time, then i think it's very very tough for him to get the nomination. >> what are the challenges for hillary clinton tonight, michael

steele, just in terms of all the things that she's been through, the benghazi hammering, the e-mails. has she turned a corner on that because of missteps by republicans, kevin mccarthy, to say nothing of what has been going on with trey gowdy's committee? >> i think one of the first challenges she has, she would not be able to use that sound bite given to her by bernie sanders because it puts the party in a very difficult space. she's running in a very progressive primary against a very very progressive candidate in sanders, bernie sanders. so not being able to take advantage of those types of sound bites, i'm not a capitalist, in that primary which you know would be one used in a general, is a challenge. couple that with the other narrative that hillary has to deal with. how she weaves her way through that conversation. if the moderators are true to form, i expect them to be very direct and very pointed in their

questioning of her. to her credit, she has gotten better at answering those questions about the e-mails, benghazi and so forth and certainly the republicans aided her tremendously the last few weeks with the comments of kevin mccarthy which now gives her not just in this debate, but next week in the hearings as you alluded to earlier with the chairman, the opportunity to play the political victim, a victim of aggressive republican politics as opposed to finding the facts of what really happened in benghazi. >> bob, what about joe biden? is he reaching the point where he's really hurting hillary clinton or whoever is going to be the nominee? >> you know, i think what happened with joe biden was that he decided this summer, this fall, that he was going to go through this process in his own way. he wasn't going to listen to all of us. he wasn't going to listen to the pundits. he was going to make a genuine decision. when he makes it, i think he'll tell us. up to now, he hasn't made it. is he hurting hillary clinton?

obviously he takes more votes from her than he does from bernie sanders, but i don't think he's hurting her at this point. if he enters the race, though, i think it will reset the entire field. if he enters the race, that next debate will get an even larger audience than this one which by the way, won't have as big an audience as the republican debate did but it's going to have a big audience. in a way i agree with michael. it's hillary clinton's opportunity to reannounce. it's a challenge for her but it's an opportunity, too, because if she's comfortable and convincing, handling those questions on e-mails and the questions i think are inevitable on the alleged flip-flops on trade, if she can then connect her inner wonk with human concerns because she's very good on substance, and if she gives a sense of vision of why she's really in this, what she's for, who she's for, then i think it could be a big night for her. but that's the challenge. >> is there another challenge, too, though, michael, of her being authentically more liberal, further left than she

has been on trade, on keystone pipeline, on wall street reform, and then if she is the nominee, running in the general election, could she end up with a mitt romney problem? >> precisely that. i think that's part of the threat -- the thread she has to work her way through tonight is sort of just as bob said, a reestablishing herself with not just her base but with the country which as the polls have shown, the leading words to describe her is we don't trust her, we don't like her. so she's got to show, i like the way he put it, that inner wonk also compared to her ability to relate to people. if she's able to do that, it will put her in a better position than she otherwise would be in. the other thing i think is important is she can't allow to happen to her what happened to jeb bush. donald trump sucked the air out of the room. she can't allow bernie sanders to do that to her tonight. >> briefly, is there anything else we should look for, any

other unlikely star to sort of punch through tonight? >> well, listen, this is martin o'malley's last real chance i think to punch through. he's got to find his carly fiorina moment. that's what he's going to be looking for tonight. if he does it by going on negative attacks against his rivals, i don't think that will work. he's got to give people a sense of why he's in this, not just because he's young but give some beef to that. what does it mean to make a generational appeal. >> where's the beef. i think i heard that once before. great to see you bob and michael steele, as always. thank you so much, both of you. keep it here on msnbc. complete debate coverage and analysis. chris matthews will have a special "hardball" before the debate. afterwards, we will be here to talk about what it all means. meanwhile, what's hillary clinton's strategy tonight? her top communications director joining me next. (vo) what does the world run on?

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what can you say to the voters of new hampshire on this stage tonight who see a resume and like it but are hesitating on the likability issue, where they seem to like barack obama more? >> well, that hurts my feelings. >> i'm sorry, senator. i'm sorry. >> but i'll try to go on. he's very likeable. i agree with that. i don't think i'm that bad. >> you're likeable enough. >> thank you. i appreciate that.

>> hillary clinton actually won that round with barack obama and went on to win the new hampshire primary. is she looking for that kind of opening tonight against her opponents on the stage? jen palmieri is communications director for hillary clinton's campaign. great to see you. this is another world, isn't it? we are in a maze of las vegas. >> yes. doesn't matter if it's light or dark but it is certainly a maze. >> how is she preparing? >> she thinks this is a great opportunity for her. i think that particularly in recent years people have seen her as the secretary of state and think what she will demonstrate tonight on this stage is that her focus, her motivation, the reason why she's in this race is she wants to be a president who will tackle the problems that keep people up at night, things like how can we afford to pay for college, what's going to make my income rise, what is -- how am i going to be able to pay for health care. that's what her focus is, that's what her motivation for why she wants to be in this race. people will say she has

solutions to those problems, she understands what they are and on that stage, she is the candidate that will be the most determined to get that done and make a real difference in their lives. people have seen her in the last four years as focused on foreign policy and this is what they will see tonight. >> there's a new fox news poll showing she would lose a matchup in a general election against the republicans. how did you get to this point where she is so far behind where she was when she first announced? >> let's talk about the polls. if you look at the polls for the early states, she is leading in every poll except for one, for the democratic primary. she has a big national lead in the democratic primary. we are just getting under way, this is our first debate. we think this is a big opportunity for her to be seen on the national stage talking about the problems that people -- are in people's lives and we know that the republicans have had a sustained campaign, speaker of the house is part of it, majority leader of the house is part of it, of trying to use

the benghazi committee to drive down her poll numbers. even with the sustained attacks she is still -- has a huge lead nationally with democratic voters. democratic voters like her. she's going to have the opportunity to speak to the entire country tonight. we think that's a really big opportunity and i think she will take it from there. but as hard as they have come at her, she is sustaining and doing well and we will -- she's excited to get out there and talk about issues tonight. >> we all know hillary clinton works really hard in debate preparation. does mock debates. bill clinton was here last night, came in with her. what was his role as an advisor in debate prep? >> he's pretty good at this himself. he's had a lot of experience and i think he probably had some advice but -- >> he's not going to be at the debate? >> that's not his plan, no. >> is he leaving las vegas before the debate? >> i'm not really sure what his plan is. he will be watching it on television like most of america.

that's his plan. >> what about joe biden? he takes away more from hillary clinton at this stage, do you think he's going to get in or not? >> i really don't know. i don't think any of us really know. so she's running her race and i think we'll see what the vp decides but i'm confident she's the strongest candidate no matter who gets in this race. she's the strongest candidate on both sides. we feel good about it. >> bernie sanders has been gently criticizing her for not being authentic, not being consistent on trade, some of the other issues which he has embraced all along coming out against keystone right away. does she have the problem of defending the fact that she has been veering to the left? >> i don't think so. let's step back and talk about what's at hillary clinton's core, what is at her core and what has motivated her not just for how she spends her career but her entire adult life is fighting for kids and families. she started the children's defense fund. that was simply about getting

disabled kids into school. she took that fight to the white house when her husband was in office trying to get health care. she got knocked down, she got back up and got children's health insurance passed with the support of congress. this is a woman who has been at this for decades and decades. it is her motivation for why she's in this race. there's no one more determined than her to make improvements in actual people's lives and i think that is what -- that's what people will see and when you see for example on tpp, that i'm sure that issue will get raised, she's talked about her decision to not support this, even though there was a lot of potential there. you can't look at these trade agreements in a vacuum. her focus in this campaign is how did we make incomes rise and when she looked at the totality of congress's failure, republican congress' failure to do things to help working families liking make college more affordable, like raising the minimum wage, she can't look at both the trade agreement and what's happened in congress and say that will make incomes rise so she decided she couldn't support that. but the point is, this is a -- this is decades long of experience in fighting for

people and being motivated to do that and delivering results. i think that is what people will see on the stage. >> thank you. >> it was a pleasure. thanks for having me. back in a moment. coming up, bernie sanders' chief strategist. stay with us. good. very good. you see something moving off the shelves and your first thought is to investigate the company. you are type e*. yes, investment opportunities can be anywhere... or not. but you know the difference. e*trade's bar code scanner. shorten the distance between intuition and action. e*trade opportunity is everywhere. when a moment turns romantic why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction

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i'm joined by senior advisor for the sanders campaign, tad devine, great to see you. did you ever think you would be on this roller coaster? >> well, no. i worked for bernie for 20 years now and i have seen the way he interacts with voters in vermont. it's great to see it playing out on such a larger stage. >> what is joe biden going to do? >> i don't know what he's going to do. i think he can see there's probably real opportunity here but i think for vice president biden, that's a real personal family decision. that's the basis he will make that decision. >> real opportunity because there's an opening because you perceive that bernie sanders' success means hillary clinton is weak? >> i think there was an assumption that this nomination process was over before it began. that assumption i think people realize now is not true. >> either you are a genius, bernie sanders is a genius or hillary clinton is a lousy candidate. >> i would say bernie's definitely a genius. that would be my pick of the three. listen, he had a vision for this campaign and he went out all across america and tested a message. that message about economic

inequality, about a rigged economy, that's being kept in place by a political process that is absolutely corrupt and broken, is a powerful message and is resonating with people. >> does he have a problem especially tonight on the gun issue, given his past record in vermont which is fine as a vermont senator but right now, that is not where the democratic base is or the nation, for that matter. >> i think he has an opportunity on the gun issue to explain to people why he voted the way he voted and where he stands today. he's always supported the assault weapon ban which in vermont is not the easiest thing to do. he supports closing the gun show loophole. he supported so many common sense gun measures for many years. i think tonight's an opportunity for him to talk about that. >> he's let gun manufacturers off the hook by giving them the waiver from any liability. >> i think if people want to talk about that particular piece of legislation and what it would have done to every small gun shop in vermont, he will be prepared to talk about it. anybody who thinks bernie sanders sided with big corporations over ordinary people, he's got a lot to say about that. i'm sure he will. >> he's been very careful not to go on the personal attack

against hillary clinton. is he going to ramp it up tonight? perhaps going after her authenticity because clearly, she is on trade and other issues, veering to the left. >> no. you know, i worked for him for 20 years. i have seen his career before that. bernie sanders is not a guy who does personal negative politics. when he disagrees with people on issues, he will talk about those disagreements. he says he's very happy that she has decided to join him on things like the keystone pipeline and tpp. we will debate those issues and the record but he's not going to go after her in a personal way, no. >> if joe biden were to get into this race, how do you then handle it? you are no longer running for all intents and purposes against hillary clinton. is he comfortable going after joe biden? >> you know what, if vice president biden decides he's going to run for president, it's not going to change a thing for our campaign. many ways, believe it or not, i always believed this about this campaign, we are not running against hillary clinton. if we start running against hillary clinton we are going to lose. bernie is running to deliver a message to people about what's happening in america today and

how we need to change it. we will stay on that same track whether vice president biden is in or out. >> how do you feel when people say bernie sanders is actually not that far from donald trump or ben carson or other outsider candidates, that he's tapping into the same anger out there in america? >> i can't think of anybody who is farther from ben carson or donald trump than bernie sanders. i understand the anger in america about an economic system that is unfair, fundamentally unfair goes across party lines. we have people on both sides appealing to it. what bernie sanders is proposing to do is oh poefpposed to what and carson and all the republicans are planning to do on policy. >> nice to see you again. good luck tonight to your candidate. we are live in las vegas today where labor rules. afl-cio president joining us next. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports."

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nexium can take 24 hours. when heartburn strikes, take zantac for faster relief than nexium or your money back. take the zantac it challenge. we're back live from las vegas as the democratic candidates for president converge for the first debate of 2016. joining me is richard trumka, the afl-cio chairman. hillary clinton made a big play for labor when she arrived here, joining protesters outside the trump hotel. mr. trumka, tell me what you think about what she's saying about labor now and whether or not she is a reliable ally to labor since she only just endorsed the trade, rather came out against the trade deal. >> i think her showing up with workers in front of trump plaza was a very, very important

thing. i think more leaders should do that, stand with workers who are trying to fight to have a better living and to raise their wages. we applaud her for doing that. it was a good thing. >> what do you think about joe biden who has been one of your strongest partners? you were with him on labor day in pittsburgh. what is taking so long about a tough personal decision but at this stage is it beginning to hurt the party? >> well, you know, joe is a good friend and a good champion of labor people. next step in his career is up to him and his family. i think he's just trying to see whether he has the emotional fuel in the tank to go through a presidential campaign. and if he does, i'm sure he'll decide to get in it. if he doesn't, i'm sure he will decide to do what's best with his family but it's his decision. he'll be watching the debate with me and the rest of america tonight. >> clearly, it's his decision but you have talked to him. what is your sense of which way

he's leaning? >> i have no idea. it was a personal conversation about a number of different things and i have no more information than anybody else does. anything i would say would be just as speculative as anybody else. >> would you be comfortable with any of the candidates on the stage tonight as the party's standard bearer? >> well, look, i'll be comfortable with the candidates who are on the stage tonight for a number of different reasons. what they have been doing is going through a real conversation about the economy. look, we have, with an economy as grossly unbalanced as ours, workers want to hear precisely what a candidate is going to do to rewrite the rules in favor of working people. they have been talking about those rules, how they would change the rules. that's what's important to workers out there. not labels, not e-mails, but what you're going to do to make

my life and my children's life better in america. i think you are going to see a conversation about that tonight. we worked very, very hard, the labor movement, to get issues out front so they address the issues that are important to working people. those are now mainstream issues that everybody's debating and we're anxious to see how the candidates handle them tonight. >> when i was at your headquarters and bernie sanders and hillary clinton was going up and seeking your support, there were real divisions there. so far, labor is deeply divided between the two front-runners. >> yeah. our process is really interesting. we have encouraged all of our affiliates to go back, get all the information about all of the candidates, where they stand on the issues, get it to our members, have our members have a real conversation and then find out who our members want to support. they're doing that. some unions are with hillary, some are with bernie sanders, and that conversation's going

on. it will continue to go on. but it's an exciting one and whenever we do endorse, it will be a bottom up endorsement that really speaks for our membership. >> do some of your members have worries about clinton in that she was one of the biggest advocates for the tpp, the trade deal, until she no longer was? >> well, you know, andrea, at least on that issue, i think it's unfair to call her a flip-flopper or anything you want to call her on it because look, here's what happened. the president came out and said we're going to negotiate a new trade deal, it's going to be the gold standard. she said it's going to be the gold standard. that was the goal. the negotiators went off, they brought an agreement back that wasn't the gold standard. now, she had two choices. she could say well, i'm staying with it regardless of how bad the rules are, regardless of what it does to workers, what it does to the economy or the country, or she could be what i

consider a responsible leader to do and that's analyze it and say the agreement you brought back isn't the gold standard, it isn't good, it needs to be changed, you need to protect workers, you need to protect the economy, and you need to do better by the country. therefore, i won't vote for it. to me, that's responsible leadership. i think it would have been irresponsible for anybody, any of the free traders to say we're for free trade regardless of the rules. we don't care how it hurts the economy, how it hurts workers of the country, we're for it. she could have done that but in my opinion, that would have been irresponsible. >> but rich, she said she came out against it, having not read it. she hadn't even seen the text. for that matter, have you seen the text? >> well, we have a trusted advisor, we haven't seen all the text but we know a lot of stuff that's in it, we know a lot of stuff that isn't in it. there's nothing on krecurrency

manipulation. it still has special -- for the corporations and multi nationals to get special treatment. it has weak rules of origin. we know all those things because they're public information and they have reported on some of the things that have been out not only in this country but other countries have reported about it more than we have. we know the agreement isn't the gold standard. we know take it's just a warmed-up version of nafta cafta and that's not the gold standard we were promised. >> rich trumka, we will be watching tonight. thanks for joining us today. >> andrea, thanks for having me on. always a pleasure. we are live in las vegas today. up next, the game change boys joining me here. hillary clinton's strategy after the debate, her next challenge and the benghazi committee.

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who better to game out tonight's debate than the original game changers themselves? with me now, mark halperin, bloomberg politics managing editor, john heilemann, msnbc political analyst. welcome both. thank you. mark, first to you. who's got the toughest job tonight on this stage? >> the moderators. you know, i think hillary clinton does. people who say she's got the most to win and the most to lose i think are right. she does have the most to lose. bernie sanders and martin o'malley have the most to gain, particularly bernie sanders. he's done almost everything well so far but this is a different task. bigger audience, face-to-face with hillary clinton and an ability to try to explain to people in the strict format of a debate, not in the long speech, what he's all about. >> to that point, he can say i'm not attacking her personally, then jab her on being a flip-flopper but when it's

face-to-face she's going to come back. >> she's going to come back. interesting, you think about one of the biggest contrasts tonight is the level of experience debating. she of course -- he of course, not only has he not debated at the presidential level but barely debated at the senatorial level. he's done four or five in his whole life. she did 25 and she was pretty good at it. so he's got a lot to gain as mark said, but he's wandering into unfamiliar territory. we have seen a lot of candidates in the past first time out have a hard time. it takes one debate to get with the program. >> flip-flop's not as good for him as just he's with the base. obamacare versus single payer, oppose the iraq war versus support it. take on wall street aggressively versus take it on sort of. i don't think he needs to go to flip-flop. which is more of a character attack. he needs to say here's where i am, where are you. >> where he is is also i am not a capitalist, to chuck todd. is that a good bumper sticker for democrats going into a general election?

>> we have both seized on that since he said it. bill clinton probably seized on it too. in bill clinton's mind, i think hillary clinton but i know bill clinton, in the end he thinks the voters of the party are not going to risk all republican control of washington by picking a guy who says i'm not a capitalist as their nominee. >> john heilemann, you both know bill clinton so well. he's here to be debate coach, whatever, moral support, but he's not going to be out taking any part of the spotlight tonight. >> i think he's also here to enjoy the bellagio. he likes it here. >> eating bean dip. >> he's a big fan of vegas. he has fond memories of the nevada caucuses where he played a big role in 2008. >> what about the other debate prep, the different candidates are going through? if you're coaching and you're not in this job, if you were coaching martin o'malley or lincoln chaffee or jim webb, what are you telling them? tonight's your last chance to shine? >> i don't think it's their last

chance. if hillary clinton stumbles down the road, someone else will emerge. we will see if joe biden's in position to do that. martin o'malley has to show people what he has. one of the big mysteries is why he's not doing better with voters because he's performed pretty well, too. but there's been no space because of all the attention -- >> i think part of the reason not just the attention, is that there's an extraordinarily high level of satisfaction among democratic voters with clinton and sanders. if you have a traditional liberal in hillary clinton, a further left liberal in bernie sanders and the democratic electorate likes the two of them, that's why there's not much space for o'malley. that's what makes it so hard for him. ordinarily you would say this is an opportunity to go negative and try to break through. if he does that he will be attacking two very popular people in the democratic party. >> when hillary clinton did, when she arrived here, she went to the trump hotel, joined the culinary workers trying to organize, to unionize, a non-union hotel. that's basically gold in terms of the party business. >> as tad would say, that's

wicked smat. union, anti-trump right across the street. very smart. you know, the symbolic politics that hillary clinton has played of late has been pretty smart. the problem is, the focus on e-mails and as she thinks now she's basically running against herself. yes, sanders is a threat, biden a potential threat but she's really running against herself. that kind of aggressive, affirmative smart thing, really good. >> she's just personally tweeted, we know when she signs the h it's her tweet, supposedly, to trump, to the real donald trump, glad you'll be watching. it's going to be huge. since he says he's going to be live tweeting. whatever. thank you, mark. thank you, john heilemann with an h. we're back live in a moment with the democratic congresswoman who said she was disinvited to tonight's debate after comments she made here on msnbc. tulsi gabbard joins us next from hawaii. today, jason is here to volunteer

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she says there should be more than six debates. >> we are a big tent party and welcome those opinions, but this debate and every debate going forward is about the issues. she is continuing to focus on process which she's entitled to do but we asked her if she could focus on those issues and she chose not to come because i get she can't. >> she says that you said she can't come. >> that is simply not the case. >> democratic chair debbie wasserman schultz earlier this hour. joining me here in las vegas now, hawaii congresswoman and democratic vice chair, tulsi gabbard joins me. congresswoman, what happened here? she says that it's not the case that you were not told you couldn't come, that she simply wanted you to stop discussing the debate structure and discuss the issues. >> good morning, andrea.

aloha from hawaii. i can't say much more than to say that that's just not true. i was on your network, msnbc, talking on "meet the press daily" about how we do need more debates. the same thing that i have been saying now for several weeks. and the very next day got a message saying that if i'm going to continue talking about that, that i shouldn't go to the debate. it's not surprising to me that she is saying things that aren't true. about a month ago, shortly after i called for more debates, the chairwoman said publicly that she had communicated and consulted with vice chairs and officers of the dnc prior to making her decision, both about the number of debates as well as this retribution policy of the exclusivity clause. the fact is, there was no communication or no consultation with the vice chairs and officers, of which i am one, so

it's unfortunate that she continues to say things that aren't true but what i would like to focus on is the issue of democracy, the issue of freedom of speech which is really the core principle here in my call for more debates and in my call to get rid of this retribution policy that punishes these very serious presidential candidates from going out and engaging the american people across the country in different forums and different debates if they do so outside of the six dnc sanctioned debates. >> congresswoman, do you think that she wants to limit the number of debates because she's trying to favor hillary clinton over her less well known challengers? >> i'm not going to speculate as to what her motives were. again, all i can say is that i and other officers were not included in that conversation prior to the chairwoman unilaterally making the decision to limit debates to six, and to punish those who step outside of those lines and talk to communities and participate in debates that are so-called

unsanctioned by the dnc. i think it's wrong. and i think it doesn't represent the democratic values that our party should be standing for. >> can you continue to work as a vice chair of this party in this situation? you have just called her a liar for all intents and purposes. >> you know, i know who i work for. i work for democrats across the country and i'm doing my best just to do my job to represent the views of people, of democrats, who are saying hey, look, we want more conversation. we want more debates. that's really what is at stake here. you know, i had a chance yesterday to spend some time here in hawaii at the punch bowl national memorial cemetery of the pacific, where i looked out over this lawn where thousands of our nation's sons and daughters are laid to rest who literally sacrificed their lives for freedom of speech, for democracy, for this great process that we have. so these are principles that i take very seriously and principles i think that should

be continued to be upheld, that we should encourage this engagement, we should call for more debates and allow for the american people to have more access and more information before they make the very important decision of who our commander in chief should be leading us going forward. >> congresswoman tulsi gabbard, vice chair, one of the vice chairs of the democratic national committee, thank you very much. thanks for joining us from hawaii. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports" from las vegas. tomorrow, we will be back live in las vegas, complete debate coverage to wrap it all up. remember, follow the show online on facebook and on twitter. my colleague thomas roberts is next on "msnbc live." busy. thinking of new ways to make treat time fun. that's how we came up with new friskies pull 'n play. with tender string treats cats can eat. that part was their idea. lucy always thought strings should be edible. chloe thought the same.

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usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. ♪ good afternoon. i'm thomas roberts. today on "msnbc live" the big democratic gamble tonight, the first democratic debate in las vegas. who's going to emerge the winner? it is the first time candidates on the left have appeared together to frame their

presidential case before an increasingly progressive democratic base. >> i think you have a right to organize. you have a right to safe working conditions. you have a right to a living wage. >> i don't represent the interests of corporate america and i don't represent the interests of the billionaire class. we don't want their money. we're going to do it on our own. >> five candidates will be on that main debate stage. there is no happy hour debate like the gop and there is no vice president joe biden, who is still reportedly considering a run. it is former secretary of state hillary clinton and senator bernie sanders along with two former governors, maryland's martin o'malley and rhode island's lincoln chaffee as well as former virginia senator jim webb. with a number of different story lines, how will hillary clinton weather questions about her private e-mail i have so and those e-mails while she was part of the president'