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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  July 28, 2014 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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reporting, it sort of blew everybody's minds here on the staff and that exclusive reporting and footage is coming up on tomorrow's show and i think you will not want to miss it, so please plan to check that out. that does it for us tonight. we're going to see you again tomorrow night. now it's time for "the last word." ari melber sitting in for lawrence tonight. the may of you of america's largest city addressed a racial crisis head-on today. >> we hasn'ted them to leave him alone. >> arrest of eric garner caught on video by a bystander in his fueled protest. >> we will fight to get justice for eric garner. >> deblasio addressed the death of eric garner. >> a nypd officer placed him in a choke hold. a move that's prohibited by the department. >> we want to build that trust back. >> is this a rogue set of police
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officers? >> he can be heard 11 times saying he couldn't breathe. >> i can't breathe. i can't breathe. >>. my husband was not a violent man. >> garner demanded justice for her late husband. >> he was a quiet man, but he's making a lot of noise now, and -- good evening to you, i'm ari melber. lawrence has the night off. new developments in a story that draws outrage around our nation. eric beganer, unarmed 43-year-old father of six died at the hands of the nypd. the incident is testing the relative lly new liberal mayor new york and celebrated police chief. today they addressed the city together. their first appearance since the mayor returned from vacation last week. mayor deblasio said he's making major structural reforms to address this kind of failure. >> a number of steps have been
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taken aggressively, a number more will be taken. all with a common goal. to keep this the safest big city in america, to constantly seek to be empb safer, to create a real working partnership between police and community, create mutual respect wherever it hasn't been before. to improve the training of our police so they can be ever more effective. >> the mayor spoke for over an hour and touched on tensions that are well known in cities around the country. how police operate in communities of color, how the fear of violent crime paralyzes sometimes our feelings about an open society and, of course, the enduring politics of race. de blasio won the mayor's office by campaigning against the racial profiling of stop and frisk policing and off included his multiracial family in his campaign ads. today he held back from issuing any racial judgments and last week his police commissioner basically ruled out race as a factor here. >> the question of race, again,
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the concept here, i think everyone in this room needs to feel this, if anyone is accused of anything, they deserve due process and democracy. that's true for any individual new yorker. that's true for any law enforcement professional. everyone deserves due process. it's not appropriate to pass judgment on the garner case until all the facts have been looked at. >> i personally don't think that race was a factor in the incident involving this tragic death. that our officers understand the importance of consistent policing, no matter whether the area is black, asian, latino, white. it's the consistency and the equal enforcement of the law. >> let's stop right here because this obviously matters. the officers in this incident are certainly innocent until proven guilty and the mayor does have a careful line to walk, but when it comes to ruling race out as a factor, as you heard the commissioner say just then, does anyone who watched this video
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think the police would approach a dispute with a well-dressed, unarmed white man on wall street the same way? as msnbc has reported, the city did strip the police officer who administered the apparent choke hold of his badge and gun and the nypd ordered retraining for the police force, but if an investigation determines this was, indeed, excessive force and unjustified killing, far more accountability is needed. like so many cities around the nation, this incident wasn't unique. it wasn't a surprise to many people. the main reason it's garnered so much attention is not that it happened, but that it was recorded. so it couldn't be spun or waved away. even though actually the first police report about it did down play the role of the police in garner's death. it's worth noting that thousands of new yorkers have raised concerns about this kind of conduct. 53% of the 5,410 complaints last year were charges about police brutality. but nowadays, sometimes it's a single cell phone camera that's more powerful than any complaint
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or protest people lodge with the government. joining me now, jim cavanaugh, former police officer and atf agent, and, of course, msnbc law enforcement analyst. good evening to you. mark thompson, host of "make it plain" on sirius xm radio. here, michael, editor in chief of "global grind" and documentarian who's been an a advoca advocate. how do you define accountability and success in what the mayor and police commissioner are doing? >> i want to commend the may wror. he came back from vacation yesterday and went right to business. the mayor has taken proactive steps to address this case. i do think as the mayor said, everyone deserves due process under the law, but this police officer has to be charged with manslaughter. he has to be charged for the death of eric fwagarner. this was videotaped. we didn't see the sodomy that happened to another, or that 41 shots that was shot at dealo on the steps in the bronx but saw
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the death of eric garner. he heard him cry, said, i can't breathe 11 times. they're saying, put your hands behind your back, put your hands behind your back. i can't breathe, i can't breathe. somebody has to be held accountable and not just reprimanded in the police department. >> to michael's point, someone has to be held accountable. yet, we looked at these numbers here. there's a reason why people are skeptical about accountability. 2013, civilian complaint review board received those 5,500 i mentioned. only 5,200 officers disciplined. that's only 3% of officers who received complaints, mark. so people are worried that there won't be justice here. >> and they have reason to be worried. this happens not only in new york, but in cities across the country where there's very little accountability. it's naive even for a democratic liberal mayor of new york to think that he can come in office and not really address this
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issues and address it forcefully. it's also, frankly, a bit concerning. i think you just alluded to this, ari. to hear them discount race, both the mayor and the police commissioner, and to hear them talk about the rights and the due process of the officers involved. to say that i think is somewhat insensitive and cliched. of course, the officers and those involved have due process. that's never been in question. the issue, now, is whether or not eric garner had due process. whether or not he was judged, sentenced, and executed right there on the spot just because of probable cause which he denied the allegation of what he was doing. so, you know, i think that we have to look at this very, very carefully. there has to be accountability. and if mayor de blasio is going to be a different type of mayor, this is going to be addressed any differently. for a change, there has to be some accountability and some type of punishment for those involved in this case. >> yeah. jim, i want you to speak to that
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point, particularly because mark is putting his finger on that gap between what the mayor said, hey, i'm open minded, and what the police commissioner said which is apparently at this juncture, he's already figured out race wasn't a factor. that strikes me as putting a thumb on the scale and that matters a lot in the tone that is set for the police. and i want to read to you something that a lawyer who's been involved in some of these cases told the "new york daily news." he said, "look, there's a culture in staten island where this occurred and particularly the precinct where you break the rules and serve your own interest and don't have to worry about getting into any kind of trouble." jim, that's at least one view of the police conduct there and it's an issue we've seen in a lot of police departments around the country. >> well, i agree, ari. i mean, i think it is true. i mean, are people on park avenue being treated like this in the most minor offenses? i think you can't eliminate race as a factor in the arrest of mr. garner. and i think that what's got to happen now is the talk has got to be walked. the prosecutors have to move on this. i mean, there's got to be an
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action, a charge of manslaughter or civil rights violation. >> in the case where the man's head was stomped on the sidewalk, he should have been arrested on the spot. if a citizen did that to another citizen, we would have arrested them right away on the spot. and i could draw a complaint up on that in 15 minutes. now, in a fatality case, mr. garner's case, i think it's going to, you know, there is a little more time. medical examiner, some facts need to be gathered. a little more interviews. it's a more serious charge. they need to move quickly. people want to see action, not promises. walk the talk. the police are not better than the citizens. >> right. and those questions, of course, are open as to what was the proximate cause of his death. that is different from whether it looks like excessive force. those are things that can be dealt with in the multiple investigations. we mentioned that mr. garner is not with us and not here to tell his side of the story. i want to play, more, though, from his widow remembering her husband. >> my husband was not a violent
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man. not in any way, shape, form, or fashion. he only yelled at me. he didn't yell at nobody else. and he was a quiet man, but he's making a lot of noise now. and i don't want no violence in his name. none whatsoever. because he wouldn't have stood behind no violence. >> powerful words there, michael, from isa garner, the widow. the fact that protest and pressure matters here, but people want it to be peaceful. you've been out there on the streets here in new york. what are you seeing? >> look, far too times we've been to the house of justice with reverend al and families who are grieving over their losts ones. as the mayor said today, we have to fight till the death of us that every new yorker, every american, every person who is being racially profiled in any city across this profile is respected and treated fairly.
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we've had 20 years in this city of a bad relationship between the police and the black community and latino community. that has to change. if this is not another wake-up call, then what will be? >> mark, how do you come down on that? how much pressure should be on -- one of the interesting things to be clear, reverend al has been a leader on this a long time, but so far he's been working more constructively trying to have some sort of alliance here with the mayor in trying to get to some sort of solution. where does pressure fit in, though, if there aren't fast enough actions on accountability? >> well, i understand reverend sharpton's position. before bill de blasio became mayor, he attended every national action rally i attended. practically every saturday. i think a lot of us held our noses, probably including reverend sharpton, when he appointed brag. we're going to try to work with this. i think now what this has exposed is what we've really
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always known about bill bratton. what upsets us about the new mayor, this is his first real test. >> right. >> i believe that this will make or break this de blasio administration. again, it's naive to think this wouldn't have come up with bratton in office. we know this culture of policing, targeting people of color has been going on, as michael said, for several decades now. so i think the accountability has to be ramped up. it has to be confronted and, again, if the mayor does not respond effectively, if bratton does not respond effectively, this could really spell doom for his administration. >> all right. mark thompson, jim cavanaugh, michael skolnik, thaunk you for joining me tonight. "the new york times" editorial board, end the prohibition of marijuana. what does that change? conservative columnist george will is going totally against the republican party and
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thinks it's actually humane to welcome some 8-year-old immigrants to the u.s. we'll tell you why. mayor adam o'neal, a story lawrence has been reporting on, finished his walk to washington, d.c., trying to convince north carolina's republican governor and republican legislature to back off and simply take that obamacare medicaid expansion money. is anyone in washington listening? he'll be here to tell us about it. did you know, your eyes can lose vital nutrients as you age? [ male announcer ] that's why there's ocuvite to help replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite has a unique formula not found in your multivitamin to help protect your eye health. ocuvite. help protect your eye health.
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the white house announced monday to help ukraine tonight. vice president joe biden told the ukrainian prime minister the u.s. would give almost $7 million in reconstruction aid to parts of eastern ukraine. meanwhile, things continue to grow tense with russia. the obama administration now claims tonight that the russian government violated the intermediate range nuclear forces treaty when it recently tested a new long-range cruise missile. that's a treaty that gorbachev and reagan signed in 1987. up next, "the new york times" now says it favors complete legalization of pot.
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>> the old gray lady is going senile. "the new york times" shocked many of us this weekend with an editorial that was pro-pot. >> when the noo"the new york ti editorial board called to legalize marijuana, a clear shift in how americans view politics of pot. >> and the paper put the pot crusade on the level of america's most embarrassing constitutional amendment. "repeal prohibition again" the paper thundered. recalling that it took 13 years. the u.s. to come to its senses and end prohibition. 13 years in which people kept drinking. otherwise law-abiding citizens became criminals and crime syndicates flourished. it has been more than 40 years since congress passed the current ban on marijuana, inflicting great harm on society just to prohibit a substance far less dangerous than alcohol." the "times" writes. 35 states loosened mare juan ij laws in some way, decriminalizing or allowing medical use. a recent pew poll shows views on
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marijuana are significant he evolving over the last quarter century. 54% support legalization today versus the 81% who opposed it in 1990. meanwhile, the obama administration's office of national drug control policy responded directly to that "new york times" editorial tonight writing, "we agree the criminal justice system is in need of reform and disproportionately exists throughout the system, however, marijuana legalization is not the silver bullet solution to the issue. policymakers cannot ignore the basic scientific fact that marijuana is addictive and marijuana use has harmful consequences." joining me now, vikas, member of the "the new york times" editorial board that wrote that piece, and cari white, co-founder and co-executive director of the brotherhood sister soul. good evening, gentlemen. >> good evening. >> you were part of this editorial. have the office of national drug control policy respond to you. why was it important to do this, and were you leading or following?
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>> i leave the question of whether we are leading or following to others. i think it was important to do this because the states clearly moving. it was an important issue for us to take an issue on. we've long supported medical marijuana in new york and other states and given what's happening in colorado and washington which have legalized and alaska and oregon who are going to vote on legalization this year, we felt like it was time for us to take a bolder stand on this issue. >> and your deliberations, did you discuss what portion of the editorial board has used pot? >> no, it didn't come up. >> why not? >> i think, you know, probably quite frankly most probably all of us have used marijuana or most of us have used marijuana in the past, but that is not germane to the discussion. i think a lot of -- you can ask the same question of the board members as to how many of them have children. most of them have children. what do they think about that? i don't think it was a question about personally what we, our experiences with marijuana, it
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was more of a policy discussion. >> let me tell you whew i think it's relevant, cari. it's because for many people who are affluent professional and particularly white americans, the data suggests that the choice to use pot may become a fond memory or a sidebar. yet for many young black and brown men, as you've pointed out in your work, it can be life changing. while the rates of usage are similar acro croscross racial l know african-americans are almost four times as likely to be arrested and in our criminal justice system, that arrest can trigger a whole lot of problems in the rest of your life. >> that's right. it's a misuse of police, a misuse of law enforcement, and it has a disparate impact on people solely because of their race and the community they're born into it. just a few statistics to give you an idea around this. last census, 2012, around these issues saw 650,000 people were arrested for marijuana in the united states. 250,000 for cocaine and heroin. so, number one, where is law
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enforcement utilizing its resources? number two, in new york, 87% of those arrested for marijuana possession are black and latino, though we know racial groups use it according to their percentage. the result of those arrests, what are framed in terms of your last report by commissioner bratton as a broken window approach is something that results in people not being able to access their housing if they live in public housing. not being able to access money for college in terms of scholarship. often not being able to have jobs such as being a barber. there are long-term effects around misdemeanor arrests and this is particularly focused on black and brown men and it's a part of the general policing approach that reveal s itself i a specific way but interconnected to the first story you explored. >> i think that's fair and we know the '96 welfare reform act took food stamp and welfare benefits off the table for tokes for one pot arrest. i want to play what former senator clinton said about this. she says she needs more evidence. take a listen.
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>> i think we need to be very clear about the benefits of marijuana use for medicinal purposes. i don't think we've done enough research yet. on recreational, you know, states are the laboratories of democracy. we have at least two states that are experimenting with that right now. i want to wait and see what the evidence is. >> do you want to wait and try it? you said you'd never smoke. >> absolutely not. no, i didn't do it when i was young, i'm not going to start now. >> is she right, do we need more evidence? >> well, you know, one of the problems with what she's saying is that the federal government has actually been the biggest road block to having more research on marijuana. it's incredibly difficult for researchers to get access to legal marijuana to do their research. a lot of the projects don't get approved, don't get funding from the government or other sources. it's kind of like saying, oh, yeah, let's study it, we don't have enough information so we
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can't make it legal, but we won't let you study it because we think it's a terrible substance. >> right. in terms of moving on this issue, do you think it works better as a federalist, local, let the states expand kind of thing? or do you think it's important to point out all these justice issues? >> i think both have to happen at the same time. one, we have to see there's an incoherent policy now if you have 37 states who have articulated some form of legalization or some form of de-crim and others that have not. this other issue that's very important, you saw it in the interview with former senator and former secretary of state clinton is that there's almost this humor around the issue. >> yeah. >> it's problematic because the results of the enforcement around marijuana, the disparate results, there's nothing funny about it at all. it has resulted in the tragic effect on the lives on literally hundreds of thousands of people that continues today. here in new york city, that continues every single year. 30,000 to 50,000 people arrested a year for marijuana possession. and i would just point out that the district attorney of
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brooklyn, law enforcement has gotten ahold of this issue, has refused to prosecute cases for misdemeanor marijuana arrests because he sees the arrests, themselves, as questionable, and the district attorney of manhattan, cy vance, went to albany to advocate for a change in the law. this framing that it's either a funny issue or on the other hand it's only an issue of certain elements of society is problematic. >> you're hitting on an important point, it's your culture experience and privilege that shows how you feel. this is something i did in college, or changed my whole life because i got grinded in a criminal justice system that's very hard on any drug offense whatsoever. thank you both. >> thank you. coming up, george will shocks his party by saying the u.s. should, yes, welcome immigrant children. the outrage. that is next. and later, how things got more difficult for one of hillary clinton's potential democratic challengers, if either of them are democratic
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i'd like to act. we've got a humanitarian crisis on the border. then it has to be dealt with. >> but you're not willing to commit -- >> we're not even on recess, chris. we're here right now and ready to work. we're going to do our job this week. >> remember when house republicans said thousands of immigrants fleeing to the southwest border was a total emergency, a crisis, now there's only four days before the house gives itself a vacation and doesn't give much time to pass a
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border bill. house republican leadership will present a border bill at their weekly meeting tomorrow, but they'd have to file the bill by tomorrow in order to vote on it before they give themselves this august recess. if they leave town for a five-week recess without a bill, maybe this wasn't such a crisis after all. we should note, though, one conservative is making waves with a humanitarian stance on this humanitarian crisis. >> welcome to america, you're going to go to school and get a job and become americans. we have 3,141 counties in this country. that would be 20 per county. the idea that we can't assimilate these 8-year-old criminals with their teddy bears is preposterous. >> amen, george will. one of his fox colleagues didn't line that or didn't get it. >> he implemented some simple math that made it sound like it was not a big deal. >> right. >> he made the primary point. it's illegal. you have to get in line. that what he said is insulting
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to everybody who legally emigrated, including my wife, who had to fill out a lot of pap paperwork and wait a long time to get in line. so george, george loves baseball. he writes books about baseball. see him in the stands. i think he's a chicago cubs fan. not sure. what if i bring a family to your luxury box and demand that they sit there in front of you and they haven't paid? no big deal, right? only 162 games. there are plenty of seats. no, you would have me escorted out. people wait in line, george. he applies that being against this is against immigration. no, it's against illegal immigration. he was trying to score sense points, points of compassion, and it failed. >> now, actually it is legal for some of these minors to stay. it is in fact the bipartisan 2008 law that lets more migrants from certain distant countries get asylum. you don't have to like it, greg, but should know it's -- now joining me, steve schmidt, republican strategist and msnbc
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political analyst, and sonya, a pulitzer prize winning journalist and out thor author bestseller, "enrique's journey." good evening to you both. sonia, let's start on this point, legally and morally, the idea as you've written this is a refugee crisis as much as it is an immigration crisis. what does that mean to you? >> i think many of us are strongly against unlawful imgrace, but there's a difference between people who come here as economic migrants to better their lives and these children. i just went back to honduras a few weeks ago to this neighborhood that i hadn't been in in a decade, and what i saw was appalling level of violence because of these narco carcarte all this cocaine that used to come up the caribbean corridor, we disrupted that by spending $8 billion to disrupt this movement, but it just simply went inland. a lot of these flights from colombia are landing in places like honduras and it's created a
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real battle amongst cartels to control this turf. and children in these countries like honduras have been caught in the crossfire. they are the new foot soldiers that these cartels are recruiting, and so i saw children who are 10, 11 years old who were being threatened multiple times, schools that were being controlled by these cartels. and i think that these children are not primarily economic migrants like i saw a decade ago. children who are coming to reunify with a parent. their primary motivation is i have to get out of here, or i am going to be killed by the cartels. they've threatened me multiple times. and i saw this, you know, with many children that i interviewed in honduras. and so i think we need to draw clear distinctions, and i see this as an extraordinary moment in american history. in the '90s we allowed 40,000 haitians in. after castro, we allowed 125,000 cubans into the united states. there are moments when people are fleeing for their very
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lives. and we have to take a stand and say, we will protect these people from harm. just like we call on other countries to do this. >> right. if there's a politics to this, steve, it is that the politics of asylum should be different than the politics of immigration. because it is by definition an emergency status for certain people. >> absolutely. look, let me step back for one second and just address something that greg on fox was talking about that i think illuminates so clearly how broken our immigration system is. we should not have an immigration system that who gets in the country is predicated who gets on line where. like it was a rolling stones concert. there should be preferential treatment for entrepreneurs, highly educated, will drive economic growth. at the same time, we have to be cognizant of the moral only fwags th obligation this country has to protect those who have no other place to go to be protected.
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we're some shameful chapters in this country. 1930s, ship coming from europe full of jewish refugees trying to escape adolf hitler, turned back. many of those refugees did not survive the war. send me your tired, your poor, your hungry. these aren't just empty words. they mean something. an awful lot of these children qualify under any classical definition of political refugees, and they're escaping a region plagued with violence, caused very directly by the policies and the neglect among many administrations, both republican and democratic. as we look around the world, but often not to what's happening on our southern border. this issue has nothing whatsoever to do with the immigration bill that's languishing, stalks congress, and has little chance of being passed. to the great detriment of the republican party's ability to compete in the future, i believe.
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but when we look at this issue, and i do believe that any sovereign country has to have control of its borders. has to be able to determine who's going to come in the country. we've had a de facto amnesty in this country for a very long time. what to do about the people who are here illegally. we have to deal with that. what we do with children who are arriving on our border. who are -- who meet every classical definition of refugee. is we need to have an administrative process that adjudicates this under the rule of law. and determines who is an economic migrant and if they're an economic migrant, they need to be returned, but if they are a refugee, that classical definition, they need to be let in, consistent with the charter of our country. >> right. that is bipartisan agreement there. i think if the republicans leave town here after asking president obama to go to the border, visit the border and they don't fund the money to send some of these immigration judges to the border and some of those border patrol to help process this, i do think it will be a moment of extreme
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and noticeable hypocrisy, steve schmidt and sonia, thank you both for joining us tonight. and coming up, the republican mayor of bell haven, north carolina, will join us with the latest on his efforts to get the gop in his state to expand medicaid and save his town's hospital. and next, "snl" actually predicted one of today's big political announcements. hey pal? you ready? can you pick me up at 6:30? ah... (boy) i'm here! i'm here! (cop) too late. i was gone for five minutes! ugh! move it. you're killing me. you know what, dad? i'm good. (dad) it may be quite a while before he's ready,
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serve manwich. and wait til they come up for air. [ laughs ] [ male announcer ] hold on. it's manwich. the president so disparages these cats in public, but in private, there's a whole lot of cuddling and purring and tummy tickling with the one who feeds him. see, for them, politics isn't a passionate cause. it's a moneymaker. it's a business. >> it's a business. that was sarah palin in denver a week ago complaining democrats use politics as a money-making business. some certainly do. one week later, the former politician turned pundit announced this new business. >> this is a news channel that really is a lot more than news. this is a community where we're going to be able to share ideas and discuss the issues of the
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day. most importantly, i want you to talk directly to me. that's what i'm most anxious about, hearing from you. >> she's using the word "news" loosely there. and if hearing from sarah palin makes her anxious, tina fey and "saturday night live" predicted this entire sarah palin network. >> the time has come for the sarah palin network. >> hello, my fellow americans. it's me. you know, ever since i won the silver medal in last year's vice presidential election, i've made it my goal to connect with as many people of this great nation as possible. there's so much more. man in a helicopter with a sniper rifle versus wild. so you think you can make me fill out the census. dateline: to catch a levi johnston. i'm sarah palin. good night. he state.
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i keep thinking of the issue of a 25-year-old mother of three who has cancer and can't get
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treatment because she doesn't have health insurance. even though she has a little job she works. maybe works at a past food place. i think everybody in america would like to see that person get cancer treatments. when you look at the real world, i think most people are in favor of other people having health care. that's what we are talking about. i hi this is an issue that's par above politics. it is a personal issue. we immediate to be talking about people and have democrats and republicans working together because really this is an issue i think 90% of the people if they totally understood the issue had would be supportive. >> what you are talking about looking at it from that human perspective and look at a program like medicaid and saying we don't want to cut this up red and blue, this is a program that's supposed to be national and available to americans around the country and following your work on this has been interesting. thanks for spending time with us tonight. >> thank you for having me. up next, things did get harder this week for one of hillary clinton's potential presidential challengers. thank your sacrifice
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government our job is not done until we cleaned up the legislative corruption in albany. so i am appointing a new independent commission led by top law enforcement officials from all across this great state. to investigate and prosecute wrongdoing. the politicians in albany won't like it but i work for the people. i won't stay fighting million we all have a government we can trust. >> it turns out the politicians that didn't like the commission may have also included the governor himself. when he formed the commission cuomo said it would be independent and could investigate anything. anything they want the look at they can look at anything. the attorney general, the comp troller. any senator, he said. in an explosive new investigative article "the new york times" reports that cuomo's office cracked down on the commission as soon as it got anywhere near the governor's office. "the times" reports the top aides requested the commission withdraw subpoenas issued that worked more the governor. cuomo defended his administration by clarifying,
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quote, it is my commission. i can't interfere with it because it is mine. it is controlled by me. he rolled out a new defense to "the times" report saying his team offered, quote, advice to the commission and his work was a phenomenal success. not everyone agrees. quote, for days, mr. cuomo has been thrashed in newspaper editorials and on radio and television shows over what had been one of his signature issues cleaning up albany. mr. cuomo was on "the daily show." one of the most powerful investigators in new york also looks unimpressed. he seized the documents from the commission and said that his office has the pierless must pleaded to finish the job. >> we have the documents and we have resources and we have the wherewithal and we have the kind of fearlessness and independence that is required to do difficult public corruption cases. >> joining me is a political report employer the new york times. covered albany for five years.
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this has become a big story for governor cuomo. what did he go wrong here according to "the times" report? >> he set out to investigate corruption. as you were saying in the intro it can investigate anybody. when it came knocking on his door, he had his top aides telling them to back up. it really raise it is question of what was the point of the commission and said over and over again it was way to build energy for reform. at the end of the day he traded it for a budget deal. and made a lot of people wonder how serious he was about battling corruption when the people he's battling against on corruption are also his partners in deal making in albany. >> the reporting by "the times" and other accounts suggests he may have wanted to play around with the idea the commission would help squeeze or pressure legislators. that alone seems a little like a bad idea whether or not it is
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technically improper. the commissions are sort of created. yet, he was attorney general himself. shouldn't he know better than anyone can't just set up a hunt like this? and expect to make it stop the moment you don't like it? >> before he was a.g. and after he was a.g., he was also master of political strategists and understands power. what i think you didn't quite expect was on have this kind of have this blow newspaper his face. he has been in hiding for five days and finally came out and gave a set of responses on the questions that will baffling. he changed again his explanation about why he set this up and who had the power to investigate who. when your answer is to bang will and say, you know, it is my commission. i can do whatever i want, it is not going to be persuasive to voters or the reporters for that matter. >> now he's got the u.s. attorney as i mentioned in control of the documents. does that mean that there might be a federal investigation of
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his sort of investigation? >> well, as far as we know, the -- the attorney for new york has not ruled out investigating the second floor but that said, it seems that the main focus of -- it is to try to keep the investigations going that were halted by the kind of unceremonious ending of the commission by the governor. so what we have basically is a pile of leads about how law make weriousing their campaign donations, what they were trance acting on the side in their part-time jobs as lawyers and consultants and businessmen. it is kind of a treasure rove for my prosecutor. i think what the feds are saying is that if andrew cuomo's commission isn't going to follow up, then they will. >> politically, does this tell us anything in your view as a political reporter about andrew cuomo? he is someone that's rumored as
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potential presidential aspirant if hillcally clinton doesn't run. >> i covered him for a long time. he is a very shrewd guy. the one thing that you do see from time to time, gets too clover for his own good, he gets in these word salads about who has the right to do what. he argue as lot of things and gets tied up. that's what we have seen in some of the appearances, you know. it is my commission. i can't interfere with it. you know, you can get -- you can get in too deep with the political operative side of your brain when the governor's side of your brain may tell you to go in a different direction. i'm not really sure what the long-term impact of this will be. in the past, he has shown that as long as he delivers on fundamentals that are important to new yorkers on the budget, on economic growth, on development, they aren't hugely concerned
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about shenanigans in albany. we talk about citizens united and money gushing through politics. this is a story you have to look thank you for joining us, you get tonight's last word. if you want to get in touch, e-mail me. tonight, we are all in. deadly escalation and more carnage in gaza. new controversy over today's explosions near gaza's main hospital. and new questions about the origins of this war. >> hamas terrorists carried out thursday's kidnapping of three israeli teenagers. we know that for a fact. >> tonight, i'll talk to a reporter casting serious doubt on that claim. then the crisis at the border. >> should we change the law?