well, the big story today, the real debt debate. good afternoon to you. happy monday to you. i'm name dylan ratigan and we have a major lineup for you today combining the powers of msnbc, the newly revamped dylanratigan.com and the huffington post to bring you a real conversation a way from the washington talking points. in the show today -- a d.r. exclusive with one of the true conservatives in this nation that i respect. senator tom coburn on the whys and hows behind higs new plan to save $9 trillion and more importantly seek to establish true confidence in america's political and economic problem-solving systems. also today a look at the real dheel would replace the taxes and austerity debate with tree

structuring versus taxes and austerity as it may be the only solution that could not only save america but the world from long-term financial ruin. but it's a debate neither president obama nor republican leadership wants to touch. before we step away, though, for senator coburn, let's look at what the rest of the lawmakers are doing, calling it the congressional two-step. all about political posturing, and getting your members on the record the right way on a bill that will never pass so that you can say you voted the right way before you kick the deficit down the road and go home for recess. the fun dance and nbc's luke russert is kv covering the two-step as we speak. how does it go? >> reporter: dylan, tomorrow house republicans will vote on a cut cap and balance bill that will in fact allow their members to go on the record say they go would no support any type of deficit reduction unless there were massive spending cuts, spending that would never rise above 18% of gdp and also a vote

on a balanced budget amendment and only if a balanced budget amendment was ratifieded could there be an ex-tense of it's $2.4 trillion debt limit. no chance of going through the senate, which is democratly controlled. today president obama issue add veto threat, he will dismiss legislation if it ever made it to his desk. allows house republicans specifically 87 freshmen member, many of whom are tea party backed to be on the record saying they did not want to voted to increase the debt limit unless there was a massivality of spending cuts. what's going on, a march to august 2nd an some variation of this plan we've heard that comes from mitch mcconnell worked on with harry reid allowing president obama to raise the debt ceiling three times between now and the end of 2012, $1.5 trillion in spending cuts we're told. some variation of that plan is looking like what the final deal will be. the challenge will be for speaker john boehner to get to 218 votes, the united states house of presentatives on some variation of this mcconnell/reid

plan. this plan does not sell well with house republicans. a lot saying it's an abdication of responsibility, quote/unquote and even members of the united states senate including tom coburn which said it's a typical washington response that kicks the can downeolving the nation' fiscal problems. that's what's going on here in washington, d.c. as far as timing, dylan, the weekend of july 30th i'm told, that might be a weekend which you should cancel out your calendar and get ready to look at the fireworks near washington. that's the weekend the final deal would most likely go through the house of representatives. anything could happen until then. july 30th weekend could be it. final passage. thank you, luke. away from the congressional two-step and to a real debt debate. the one has goes to the core of our functionality, our macrkets and political system. our next guest not only has a plan, you may not agree with everything he has to say, but you cannot say that this man wants to kick the can down the road or do any special favors

for any special interests. i consider him ap true conservative. in the classical sense of what it means to be a conservative. you're looking at hill. senator tom coburn, oklahoman republican from the finance committee, member of the gang of six from time to time. he joins us for his first interview since announcing his $9 trillion debt plan called "back in black" and it tackles entitlement reform, of course, a core issue, by means testing. you're rich, you have to pay all wait up the ladder and may not collect at much. also raises the eligibility ages in the process. that sort of thought saves you $3 trillion over ten years. means testing, age requirement. now on to the tax code. $992 billion, call it a trillion, over ten years, by reforming the tax code with an eye towards flattening it out. not on the income tax level, per se, but on the loopholes and special favors. this ethanol subsidies. think all the tax dollars given away to special interests

through back rooms in the tax code. coburn outlines another trillion in savings at the defense department including $963 billion in discretionary military spending. look no further than funding both sides of the war a understanding the amount of money that flies around unefficiently. end goal, resapp confidence in the american government and financial system that we can function. by cutting the government by 25% and balancing our budget with ten year. you say the overarcharcharching point, senator, of this proposal, set the delta as they say, set the size of the market. you have a $9 trillion headline. your argument is if we don't have this scale he risk our economic system. can you elaborate? >> yeah. dylan, we don't ever get out of the problem with $2 trillion ors 3ds trillion worth of change. we're like the guy that has six

credit cards and tries to open the seventh one to pay the min ma'am amount and the interest payments on the other six. and unless we send the proper signals that restores confidence in our ability to repay our debt, we're going have higher interest rates which will become irreversible in terms of, it will be just like greece. so now's the time to fix that. now the time to set the mark, and if were you to follow everything in this plan, nobody is ever -- has ever done what my staff has done over the last six weeks. look at every iog report, every cbo report, every study don on every government agency and the tax code and make recommendations that are totally backed up. you don't have to agree, but it's a plan that says here's where the government is today and here what to do to get back in it. if you did everything in the plan at the end of ten years we'd knock $2 trillion off the debt and have a three-star

rating and we'd have a growing, vibrant economy. >> the issue you would run into politically, it would seem, is with the democrats who would, i presume, fight you on something like means testing and raising the age on entitlements, and with your own party on tax reform with the grover norquist crowd, who see eliminating subsidies for ethanol as a tax increase. how would you anticipate both of those communities? >> well what i would say is, feel free to criticize this as soon as you put up your plan. as soon as you have offered a way to get our country out of the problems that we're in, then feel free to criticize it, and until then you really don't have any right to be critical of it, because nobody denies the fact that we have a problem. and if you read the last s & p report that didn't say raising the debt limit was enough to keep us from getting a down. grade on our bonds. if you read it. and i take that to mean that you better be about cutting some

significant spending and getting your house in order, otherwise you're going to get a downgrade, and a downgrade is an interest cost for every 1% increase in interest cost, it's at a minimum $147 billion a year in terms of cost to the federal government. so there's $1.5 trillion with 1% increase in interest costs if you don't cut enough. so if you cut 1.5, we get a 1% increase we haven't done anything. so you have to be aggressive. you have to actually get it done. a couple of points. number one is, if you did everything that was in this recommendation, the government in 2020 would still be 63% bigger than it was in 2001. in real term. that's number one. number two is the government as a percent of the gdp would be back down under 20% which has been its historical average. which gives us a manageable debt and an ain't to gbility to get e

problems our kids and grandkids, as well as us, you're young enough, you'll be paying for some of this as well. >> that's why i've worked so hard, senator, to try to impact this as best i can. you and i both know that your ability to solve any problem whether engineer, a medical doctor, whether you're a software engineer, is only as good as your ability to identify where the problem actually is. we've seen a lot of solutions to a lot of problems come out of washington. the problems of debt ceiling, the problem is the uninsured, oh the problem -- whatever the symptoms are. what do you define as the core problem you're trying to solve with this plan? >> i define the core problem as having members of congress here willing to do what's best for the country regardless what it does to their political career. and we've had the opposite side of that and that's why we're in trouble, and until we hold members of congress to that level of accountability, to that level of control, we're not going to solve our problems. so this is a different time.

our country is at risk. the country that we know and love and the lifestyle that we know and love is at risk. you can deny the risk, but the consequences of denying the risk are a disaster for our country. >> define disaster. >> markedly lower level standard of living. financial repression. the worst tax increase in the world. i get hit all the time by the conservative tax people. the worst tax increase in the world is the one that comes through government printing money, inflation greater than what you were earn on your assets and then diminishing the value of your assets by taking it from you. >> what would you say your goal is? you have your staff for six weeks do the level of work you've described. you've put yourself out in front of the world. you're a very senior, high-profile american politician.

you had a lengthy press conference today. you're talking with me, you're going to be talking with others. if you could achieve what you set out to achieve in this process a few months ago and really i presume years ago what would it be? >> just to have people become informed of all the hundreds and hundreds and billions of dollars through hundreds of duplications. have them look at the constitution and say, what's the real role for the federal government? allow the information to become widespread among the american people. 239 american people actually go on our website and read what's in here, they may not like all of it, because all of us will have to participate in the sacrifice. we've actually lived the last 30 years off the next. but if they become informed and they see the ridiculous things that have happened and what we're doing, they'll say, we have to change. and for our own benefit, for those that follow us, we have to make changes. >> senator, if nothing else, and there's plenty else, but if

nothing else, i complement you on your efforts to try to reframe this debate into the scale and the nature that i agree with thaw it needs to occupy, which is are we going to restructure in a way that maintains and establishes the confidence of the world and our own people in the way we function, or were are going to kick the can down the road? it's a pity there aren't more like you, sir. >> thank very much. it's good to be with you. >> talk to you next time. senator tom coburn, thank you. the plan up on our web properties. i'm sure the senator has ton his. tom coburn is conservative. conservative view, went after $1 trillion in defense. goes after $1 trillion in the tax code. trillions come out of social security and medicare from the wealthy, and from raising the age, we all live longer. that sounds to be like a truly fair conservative world view. you may not agree with it. i might not even agree with all of it, but at the very least,

it's an intellectually hon aeftened informable conservative point of view and i want to bring in another conservative i have a tremendousality of respect for, former new york governor george pataki. governor, a plesh e to see you. >> nice being with you. >> your thoughts on his representation of a conservative view xwa. >> without having seen any of the details of the plan, senator coburn deserves tremendous credit, because what he's talking about is absolutely right. we can't fiddle around the edges as we drive out of a cliff. we have to be serious about it and it has to be high trillions to get this deficit under control, and it has to be across the board. you can't have sacred cows because of any political constituency you can't touch, and senator coburn appears to have done that, and i join with you in giving him tremendous credit, and i hope this isn't dismiss. i hope people take a serious look at 2 and say, yes, we can do, if not all of it, a major part of it. >> you can't touch social security, medicare and from the

conservative stand. point, grover norquist, hang on, eliminate the ethanol subsidies, a tax increase. how does he deal with that? >> both of those, look at those reasonably are not really true. you cannot come close to balancing the budget without looking at entitlements and there's not a person in america who thinks you can. and i think that includes nancy pelosi and harry reid. what i would do and suggest to the media if they're going to start criticizing some of the proposals out there, not just senator coburns, where's your proposal? close is the democrat of leaders in the house. she proposed nothing. >> what about grover norquist and the no tax crowd relative to coburn who says year going to eliminate -- >> i totally agree. if you are raising -- i agree with grover, if you are raising the margin the rates on income tax -- lgts that's not what we're talking about. what we're talking about is the elimination of sdub sdis -- >> the vast majority of conservatives agree getting rid of ethanol subsidies are not tax

increases, getting rid of breaks that shouldn't have been granted in the first place. >> grover norquist doesn't agree. i agree, but there's a political problem here where whether you have -- >> i think there is both an economic and a political problem. the economic problem is, i think you don't raise taxes. >> we get that, but that's about -- he's not -- coburn is not suggesting that. >> he's not suggesting that. and i think the conservative position, reasonably, can be defined as looking to lower the rates, the margin the rates on individual and on corporations. >> what about the sdub skies removal? >> getting rid of subsidies, getting rid of loopholes and some special interest carveouts is fair and appropriate and in the long run economically positive as opposed -- >> by the way, conservative. >> and conservative. >> it's a fair point of view. >> exactly right. >> a liberal point of view, so to speak, i'm giving you some i'm not -- i get confused by -- the words don't make sense any longer.

>> a lot of these were createed by liberals nchtsds and -- >> and conservatives. >> that's where the words almost run out of gas. i don't even know what the heck a conservative is. >> dylan, that's the bigger point. we have to solve this problem, and we can't be looking to divide our demonize or take part of senator coburn's or take part of paul ryan's and demonize it. what the senator just said is 100% right. if you don't have your own plan that has at least $5 trillion,s 4 trillion, you have no right to criticize nap goes for nancy pelosi, harry reid and barack obama, by the way. >> and a whole raft of republicans, too. >> and a whole raft of republicans, too. >> stay with us. i'm not talking about austerity or tax hikes later, i'm talking about a plan no one is talking about pap fundamental shift in the way we run our house. we'll keep the governor noor, plus, karma heaven.

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we're back to talk debt. our entire mega panel joins us with special guest former governor pataki from new york.

we've heard from senator tom coburn and both of us and your thoughts on coburn's decision to up the ante so to speak. tax code, loophole, eligibility, a trillion out of defense aing if you don't go for the if you $9 trillion you're not engaging the problem. your thoughts? >> i don't think our number one problem is the debt, it's jobs. with that said, i applaud senator coburn for talking about cuts in defense. i applaud him for realizing we have a revenue problem in this country. we talk about spending in terms of gdp of this country. well, in fact, our revenue is far lower relative to its natural baseline, relative to gdp than our spending is higher. that's simply a fact. at the end of the day i would rather see a jobs program, but i appreciate at least there's some measure of a moncome of honesty we have a revenue problem. >> a sensible discussion, which

is what the american people want and deserve. the most interesting poll, 80% of americans want republicans and democrats to work together, to talk the problems through. only one in five americans think deficit reduction can occur through spending cuts alone. they seem to be holding rest of america hostage and that's going on in congress at the moment. an absolute disgrace and betrayal of the american people. >> what sam was saying, governor, there's this sort of framework that comes up, either talk about the debt or talk about job. we all know the decline in jobs create as decline in revenue which then creates more debt. your view on reconcile be job creation and revenue creation with job cutting? >> the joint about jobs being a critical priority for this country is absolutely right, and you don't create jobs in the private sector by raising the taxes on small businesses, by raising the marginal income tax

rate or boy not dealing with the deficit. they're very much interrelated. >> how do you match? senator coburn -- >> take a look how you match the two. respectfully you're wrong, about 20% holding hostage. 24r50e69 at least on the conservative and republican side, toomey's plan, ryan's plan. where's nancy pelosi's plan and barack obama's plan? one more point. >> there's a plan out in. people's budget. cutting $5. trillion over the course of -- >> in the senate, that's not republicans. >> the plan -- >> 97 -- >> listen, i'm not a democratic senator. you asked is there a plan out there to do it. there is one. >> let's break this back in two. chew off one thing at a time. let's stick with jobs and debt now and come back for democrats and republicans later. >> a solution was laid out will. it's not the president's budget voted down 97-0.

that couldn't be scored by the cpo, because it was so vague. what is out there is the bowles simpson bipartisan support that cuts $4 trillion out of the deficit, raises revenue by close to a trillion dollars but at same time it's raising revenue by closing loopholes and getting rid of subsidies it's low, the margin's individual income tax players to 23%. it's low aring the corporate rate to 22%. that's going to create jobs. that's going to get small businesses to hire and it's not a narrow band of conservative republicans holding the american people hostage. it's the president's bipartisan report that he threw in the waste basket when he came out -- >> so the -- >> let me ask you-ish wait a second. it's not a bipartisan report. it wasn't ratified. needed 14 votes, never got it. it's two men's report. >> six senators, three democrats, three republicans. >> no, no. stick to politics. hang on sam, hang on a second.

what the governor is asserting, right or wrong, is if you go in and cut tax rates while simultaneously reforms entitlements while simultaneously cutting defense, while simultaneously cutting loopholes, you may be able to reduce the deficit and create jobs. you awe glee with that. >> i don't believe. >> if you don't, why not. >> the reason i'm not hiring people, any business leaders i don't have extra dollars in terms of taxes. there is no demand. if i own a bakery i'm not going to hire another baker unless i know there's people coming in to buy more cakes and that's not happening. >> so you would raise taxes on businesses to pay -- i. would raise taxes -- >> ultimately to create jobs? >> that is somewhere in line so we are no longer at a 60-year low in taxes. we have all of this extra capital that is sitting in the hands of people who are simply -- >> the question is -- we all knows numbers.

20% of people unemployed. we need nurses, infrastructure, policy, the question is how do we marry those things to actually create work? quickly and i have to take a break. >> i did. i took office. i had multiple billion dollar deficits and everybody said, you can't just cut spending. you have to raise taxes. i cut taxes, cut the sizes of the government, and turned it around to the point where when i left office we not only had multiple billions in surplus, record investments in education. >> and what was the key to your success? >> create an economic climate when the private sector yes, we can invest, it's worth the risk and reduce the size of government to point it was sustainable with low e capital. it worked. >> i don't know what you have run -- >> a leverage level. the key is a leverage bubble. >> speaking of the leverage bubble we'll come back with the panel. the real deal to tackle our massive debt, is it what you

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that goes back to a much bigger issue. a whole host of contracts, that were entered into during better times that unfortunately have to be rewritten. >> that was mohamed el-eran, the trillion dollar money management firm pimco. we sat down for a 30-minute pod cast with him posted on dylanratigan.com. we all know the sdet fuddly pro wrestling. a real debt deal would involve real debate, like the one we're having with senator tom coburn.

perhaps a global debt restructuring of global obligations many of which people like mohamed in our view will never get paid. think about the way we operated following world war ii. where we gave germany forbearance as opposed to deal wig germany after world war i where we sought to squeeze blood from a stone. we did this after the civil war in this country. we did this with latin america in the '80s. is it time to really get into a conversation about restructuring debt, housing debt, government debt, global debt at this point? with us is our specialist william kohan, author of "money and power ". governor pataki, sam still with us. how would he racket to a restructuring proposal. >> dylan, i give you credit for a deal i had not heard before. you're proposing oust court

restructuring. forget if you could put the u.s. government into federal bankruptcy court and ge down that path, but while you try to have people give discounts to their debt out of court, very, very painful. so would goldman sachs agree to this in the first instance? of course not. no one is going to. >> i wouldn't say no one. no bank and china won't, but there's plent of people on the other side that will. can i state my case? you think i'm crazy. that's fine. it's because i'm from the adirondacks. these things happen. a couple of statistic. unemployment rate and gdp numbers after world war i where we basically left all of western europe on the hook for all of the debt. numbers, abomination. you see the job numbers. 5.8 million. end game was germany pnting their currency decides we won't use the marc, use currency and

take it from there, circa 1939. after the war, all this hard thing about restructuring debt maybe isn't as hard as we thought considering the past six year, do brent woods, the marshall plan, all things that happened after world war ii and the result in productivity, as we all know, was an average gdp growth between 1945 and 1960 of 4% and 14 million jobs. governor pataki, i recognize the, offensive nature of asserting a need for a restructure, but is it not the only realistic solution when your liabilities go to $70 trillion. your reality and the swaps market is at $600 trillion and the underlying available revenue is either through taxes or austerity, totally inadequate in order to pay off the debts quota? >> totally unrealistic and i

think there are solutions. this is not a lost cause. you just heard someone propose a $9 trillion solution. there are many others advanced and put out there and could be done. there's simply a lack of political will in washington. there's not a lack of solution, and to tell the world that the u.s. has become a third world nation like argentina. >> the u.s. is a -- the whole world might be. >> china doesn't appear to be to me and there's no reason with we can't get our finances in order. >> i want to invoke churchill. you can always count on americans to do the right thing after they've tried everything else. i think on this one, you are going to get there. i think america is actually going to get there. whip the huffington post, it was wonderful and lovely. very utopian. >> i don't think it's utopian. thing is, this is my fear. maybe i'm wrong, sam. but i believe that a lot of people in the 1930s telling the germans there's no way we can restructure your debt, no way to

restructure global debt. you're crazy, how can you possibly have this conversation? after six years and millions of people getting killed, they're like, hey, does anybody want to have that debt restructuring conversation here? maybe we can -- i guess -- >> until 2006. the uk, still writing out checks to america. >> i guess what i'm saying -- >> until five years ago. >> given a chance between a multimillion person massacre and restructuring debt, i choose debt restructuring, but that's just me. >> i personally, again, return to the fact we are revenue starved in way we haven't been in over 60 years. interesting to me, talk about restructuring debt, when you talk about cutting medicare, talk about raising the retirement age, when you talk about cutting social security or raising the retirement age, that's in fact what you're doing. >> i know. i'm well aware. >> on a contract you had with those people and you are raiding money that has been in the system. >> true. >> talking about it in a different way. you can look at the idea of not meeting those obligations as

something as -- when you talk about cutting social security nobody has a -- >> over here? >> it's a very create everybody ideverybody -- creative idea. august 2nd, may be coming, have you checked the bond market lately? it's going crazy. flight to safety. until you have a real default, which may be coming august 2eneden, talk of restructuring -- >> it's prima sure. >> premature and admitting that the u.s. can't pay its debts, as if it were gm is, you know -- gm looks good now, too, but it's after it shed billions and billions of liabilities. >> i agree with sam. america is paying its debts right now, governor. >> of course it is. >> but doing from the least politically represented people. it's paying its debts by taking away the smallest amount of assistance for its poorest people. it's paying its debts by seeking to restructure things like medicare and social security. it's paying its debts through the 20% unemployment created in the housing -- in the employment

markets after bailing out the banks and refusing to restructure the housing debt. we are restructuring our debt but doing it on the weakest and least politically -- >> we're spending ourselves into oblivion and have just seen the growth of entitlements like obama care, massive increase in spending, unsustainable. dylan, you've been paying a lot of attention to president obama because you create add brilliant straw mat, millions of people dying on it's streets. restructuring. >> no. i did that for your benefit. listen, i put on a little show -- >> sam is -- >> millions dies in the streets i. would be against that a. tremendous amount of pain out there, now, and -- >> of course there is. >> and reflect -- >> nice of you to say so there there's a big difference between retiring at age 65 or 67 or health care at 65 or 67 and you would have people go to sbint

insurance so wealthy in the country don't have to pair their share of taxes. >> mime time is out. sensational. i appreciate you coming in and xpoepzing yourself to the mads in and driving the mads in and same to you, sam, what i mean i feel i've been part of one the more interesting and compelling debates on debts i've had since i started this debate on the show. that's a testament to the four of you and i appreciate that. thank you all. what's the book title? >> "money and power." >> come on, people. we invite you to take time to check out the podcast with pimco. it's occupy on dylanratigan.com right now and also check out our blog, the real debt deal up this afternoon on the front of the huffington post. we can solve our debt problems but it needs to begin with an honest debate. we'll give senator coburn points for trying to get that done today. up next -- high, thought we'd see the day when southern

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coverage of america's

longest wars in both afghanistan and iraq have fallen from the papers of national news. a group of dedicated war journalist, still putting their live on the day every day to try to keep america and the world inform pd in total, 170 journalists have been killed in afghanistan and iraq since the u.s.-led invasion. now the world's deadliest area to be a member of the press, despite the so-called end of combat operations. an with us now is al jazee reporter on the ground in iraq. aung irof "hue to avoid being killed in a war zone." the essential survival guide for dangerous places. and rosie, how much of a barrier to cover good war coverage, how much of a barrier to good war coverage has the failure to prepare to cover the war been?

>> well, i think that it's the biggest obstacle right now in everything that's going on this year is safety. because, really, that's the only obstacle. there is so much news out there, and whether we can actually get to it is the biggest problem. >> if we are not able to cover these wars, what do you see as being at risk? if the people of the world don't have this information, what's at risk? >> well, you can see that without journalists on the ground, what you've got is a lot of mixed, jumbled up information coming out of these areas. actually find out what the real truth is, what you end up with is a whole bundle of propaganda. so it's really important that there are people on the ground to work out what's going on on either side. it's really only been getting journalists inside syria, inside yemen that has helped us dissect

exactly what's going on and it's really vital. >> at the end of the day we have seen 170 killed since the two u.s.-led wars begun. you published this book, "how to survive in a war zone." what would you say are the key messages in this book for journalists or anybody else in the war zone so that we continue to get in information, but we stop losing people's lives? >> really, this book is not only for journalist, it's also for ngo workers, doctors, and also just for people who like to travel in places that are a little off the beaten track. the main lesson i learned in interviewing so many people when i was doing the book, were the local. if you listen to the locals and they tell you how to do things inned proper way to fit in and not stand out, and don't think you know better than them. they've been there for years and are going to be there for years

and never think you're prepared enough. there's always another book or up in, article you could read, some kit that might be able to save your life or somebody else's life or perhaps just give it away if you don't need it when you get in. you know? >> is there a common mistake, those who come under assault or god forbid, those who have been killed, have made? >> i think probably the commonist mistake everyone would admit, thinking they know better than what's going on in front of it. i've done it many times and learned as a 22-year-old you can't beat the odds at which the locals established. so if you're heading into riot then the person driving your car says this feels a little touchy, it's probably a good idea not to go pushing through into the rioters as i did several times and get myself into very close and horrible situations. >> it almost sounds like you have to find a way to manage whatever your own adrenalin or your own desire to get closer to

whatever it is, is, with the advice of those of the locals who might be telling you that's a bad idea? >> yeah, that's certainly true. there's a huge -- a difference between what you think you should get to your boss and what you're able to get to your boss on a day-to-day basis as a ju journalist and realizinged perhapsers. when you stick to the locals and what they enable you to do with their billient knowledge and bravely for being there all the time can you actually get more in that slow, patient way in terms of information rather than pushing through like a bull and then finding that all you're getting, your meeting resistance the whole way along. >> which is ironic, because pushing through like a bull is frequently a desirable characteristic in a reporter. >> indeed. thosed kind of show and tell

pieces that tend to get replayed over and over again while all the slow and steady work that brings the really delicate pieces of information doesn't tend to get played over and over again on channels like ours, al jazeera. it's -- it's a shocking and difficult balance to work out, but at the end of the day, you have to look out for the lives of the people around you and your team and most importantly, the local journalists facing the day to day scenes and difficulties for instance in jordan this week we saw an uprising, just doing it on a peaceful citizen and now four police officers have been arrested for what they're charged with excessive violence against journalists. it's something they're faced with all the time, these local journalists who are there and they have to come meet with that policemen the next day. foreign journalists fly in and just leave, it doesn't really matter to them. >> rosie, a worthwhile undertaking to say the least.

congratulations on the book. "house to avoid being killed in a war zone." congratulations. >> thank you. >> and the essential guide for dangerous place is. catch her on al jazeera. a little delay in the interview, we are, believe it or not, just live to doha. a break as we set up for the evening. on "hardball," chris has his take on the latest partisan politics playing out on the debt debate. before we get that, keli goff what it takes to manage a household and for that matter an entire country.t 34 mil on pounds of mail every day. ever wonder what this costs you as a taxpayer? millions? tens of millions? hundreds of millions? not a single cent. the united states postal service doesn't run on your tax dollars. it's funded solely by stamps and postage. brought to you by the men and women of the american postal workers union. ♪ of the american postal workers union. having the right real estate agent on your side

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time for "the daily rant."

the time on the floor is yours. >> thanks. the recently i found michele bachmann speaking. her willingness to take in foster children. these mothers expressed admiration at her ability to manage a household with that many children in it. mothers pointed out and the would no better than i do, running a household with small children is no easy feat. with one child or two, certainly not eight, how many children the bachmann family had in their home at any given time. the moms i spoke to pointed out the organizational skills to manage a home and family of that size arguably make michele bachmann one of the most experienced managers in the gop presidential race. did i mention i was speaking to a group of progressive moms? while thez women don't have michele bachmann white house worth fri a policy standpoint, their comments represent a powerful observation of what kind of work, accomplishments and experiences we place value on as a society. often succeeding at the most important jobs such as being a good parent and a good person

carries very little social cachet. when meg whitman threw her hat in the political ring with record-breaking campaign for california governor, she bought into front-runner status largely on the status of her professional accomplishments and more impressive wallet. by multiple accounts like many of hur successful male counter parts he success came as a price and her home life suffered. why is that more qualified than a woman who might not have ricin quite as far as fast because she was biz investing in her children and in the case of balk maub, other people's children, too. male candidates it can be fascinating what pass for relative experience? tom delay worked in pest control. a lobbyist jost but i'm going going to make it. his successor den e hastert was a high school wrestling coach. not meaning they weren't qualified and also not that

michele bachmann is qualified for the nation's highest office but i am saying if herman cain can be considered a serious contender for president base on a record of running several pizza joints why shouldn't a woman who not only worked as a lawyer but manage add home raising more than 20 children be considered a serious contender as well and not dismissed as a flake. >> are you arguing that michele bachmann as a flake is tied to her experience or to her policy? >> i think a little of both and i think we've seen this before if you're an attractive woman. cuts both ways. sarah palin and michele bachmann have gotten more break because they are attractive women but i argue they're not taken as seriously. is sarah palin that much intellectually inferior to george w. bush or michele bachmann to herman cain? that's been made. >> i agreeshgs but idiotic poli