03/16/23 03/16/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> i ahere in ethioa to reafrm a pledge president biden made late last year. as he put it, the united states is all in on africa and all in with africa. amy: secretary of state tony blinken is in africa this week as the united states openly competes with china and russia

for influence across the continent. we will look at how niger has become a criticamilitary outpost for the united states and look at the situation in ethiopia four months after a peace to was signed to end the war in tigray. then we begin our coverage of the 20th anniversary of the u.s. invasion of iraq. >> i am thinking about the invasion and occupation 20 years later, thinking about the incredible destruction and vastatn that iraq and iraq society has expressed. the huge gap between wha actually happened and to my mind, particarly women, have been the biggest victims of the invasion. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and

peace report. i'm amy goodman. the pentagon has released video of what it says is a russian fighter jet forcing down a u.s. surveillance drone over the black sea on tuesday. the 42-second video shows an su-27 russian fighter jet pouring fuel on an mq-9 reaper drone and making a pair of close passes. after the second fly-by, the video glitches before revealing damage to the drone's preller. the u.s. says a collision caused the drone to crash into international waters south of the russian-annexed ukrainian territory of crimea. on wednesday, u.s. defense secretary lloyd austin said he called his russian counterpart to discuss the incident. >> make no mistake, the united states will continue to fly and operate wherever international law allows. amy: russian defense minister sergei shoigu reportedly told austin u.s. drone flights near

crimea are provocative and could le to an escalation between russian and u.s. forces. in moscow, foreign minister sergei lavrov said russia had designated parts of the black sea off-limits tany aerial traffic during russia's military operations in ukraine. >> you have heard representatives of the pentagon and the joint chiefs of staff say the united states will continue to fly wherever it pleases in accordance with international la but if you follow this logic, the space around the united states has the same status as the space over the black sea. amy: in moscow, russian president vladimir putin welcomed syrian leader bashar al-assad to the kremlin earlier today. assad said he welcomed a russian proposal to set up new military bases in syria and said damascus has agreed to recognize russia's annexation claims over occupied parts of ukraine. stock markets in asia have tumbled after credit suisse bank signaled it will borrow up to $54 billion from switzerland's

central bank. the bailout pushed european markets higher after investors fled credit suisse and other financial stocks a day earlier amid fears the sudden collapse of u.s. banks svb and signature might trigger a wider financial crisis. in another sign of turmoil in the banking sector, shares of san francisco-based first republic bank have fallen by nearly three-quarters over the past week after ratings firms downgraded the bank's credit rating to junk. meanwhile, democratic senators elizabeth warren and richard blumenthal have asked the biden administration to launch a criminal probe into whether svb executives violated civil or criminal law ahead of the bank's collapse last week. in a letter sent to the securities and exchange commission and the justice department, the senators write -- "one of the enduring failures in the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis was the inability or unwillingness of the justice department and bank regulators to hold bank executives accountable for behavior that destroyed millions of lives and cost trillions of

dollars of wealth. the nation's bank regulators cannot make the same mistake twice." in texas, a federal judge heard arguments wednesday in a case that could restrict medication abortions throughout the nation, revoking the fda's two-decade-old approval of mifepristone, which is the most common abortion method in the u.s. demonstrators rallied outside the courthouse in amarillo. this is activist janda raker. >> it feels very discouraging. it feels like we have gone back in history. when i was a young mother in 1962, they were just starting to let women take the pill. now we have come to abortions have been legal since 1973 and now they are not. amy: in israel, protesters have blocked streets after netanyahu forged ahead with plans to upend israel's system of checks and

balances by gutting the power of the judiciary. in jerusalem, they were outside the supreme court. elsewhere, protesters took over a tel aviv highway among other disruptions in cities and towns nationwide. it came after netanyahu rejected a compromise proposal to diffuse the crisis put forward by israel's president isaac herzog, who warned in a televised address that israel stands on the brink of civil war. >> who ever thinks a true civil war is a war we will reach has no clue specifically now the 75th year of statehood. the of this is at arms reach. amy: meanwhile, tensions between israel and lebanon rose after israel's army said it killed an armed man who entered northern israel and set off a car bomb on monday, severely injuring an israeli civilian. israel's military said it was investigating whether lebanon's hezbollah fighters were behind the blast. in indonesia, indigenous people

say construction of the new capital in borneo is pushing them off their land and they fear for their homes and livelihoods as the nation prepares to move its seat from jakarta to the east coast of the island of borneo. nusantara is set to be inaugurated as indonesia's new capital next summer. in 2019, president joko widodo announced the move away from jakarta, which is rapidly sinking into the java sea. this is balik tribal chief, sibukdin. >> there a large forest area which used to be in area of land and livelihood of our people. we are not hoping it will be given back to us, but please do not disturb what we are left with, where we have been living for years. we have had enough. we have had to give in and we cannot let this be taken, too. amy: the indonesian government has pledged to build a sustainable, carbon-neutral city but environmentalists warn its construction will lead to massive deforestation, threatening endangered species. the biden administration has approved a $31 billion merger between canadian pacific railway

and kansas city southern, the first major rail merger approved by u.s. regulators in more than 20 years. the new company, named canadian pacific kansas city, will operate freight rail traffic over more than 20,000 miles of track in the u.s., mexico, and canada. the merger brings the number of major u.s. rail firms down to six. it follows february's derailment of a freight train in ohio that spread toxic chemicals across the town of east palestine. this week, the inter-union coalition railroad workers united passed a resolution opposing the merger, noting that rail industry consolidation has resulted in less competition, fewer jobs, severe traffic congestion, dissatisfied shippers, delayed passenger trains, and serious safety concerns. michigan lawmakers have voted to overturn an anti-union law approved by state republicans in 2012. democratic governor gretchen whitmer has promised to sign the legislation, which will make michigan the first state in

nearly 60 years to roll back a so-called right to work law. since the law took effect, michigan unions have seen a decline of about 40,000 members. 26 other u.s. states still have right-to-work policies in place. in georgia, special grand jurors investigating interference in the 2020 election have heard audio of a phone call trump placed to then-house speaker david ralston, in which the president asked the fellow republican to convene a special session of the legislature to overturn joe biden's electoral college victory in georgia. that's according to new details of the grand jury's probe published in the atlanta journal-constitution, which reports speaker ralston responded to trump, "i will do everything in my power that i think is appropriate." ralston did not call a special session, and biden's win in georgia was ultimately certified despite trump's efforts. in january of 2021, trump was recorded asking georgia's republican secretary of state to find enough votes to overtake joe biden. fulton county district attorney

fani willis said in january a decision on whether to bring criminal charges against trump is imminent. the u.s. senate narrowly confirmed former los angeles mayor eric garcetti as ambassador to india wednesday, more than 600 days after his nomination and despite reports garcetti was aware his former deputy chief of staff rick jacobs was guilty of such harassment. a handful of republicans joined the majority of democrats to secure the confirmatioafter several democratic senators withheld their support for garcetti. earlier this week naomi seligman, former communications director for then-mayor eric garcetti, spoke out against her former boss on cnn. >> creditors can only continue to abuse when you have a powerful enabler and mayor garcetti is a very powerful enabler and he is about to become more powerful. we have a situation where he would oversee 2000 or more employees and he has not shown the judgment is for to become an

abbasid or or even to hold public office anywhere in this country or this world. amy: texas officials announced wednesday they are taking over houston's nearly 200,000-student public school district, citing poor academic performance and mismanagement. it's one of the largest school takeovers ever in the u.s. and comes as an affront to state democrats and many families in houston, where 90% of the student body is of color, primarily black and latinx. it's the latest example of largely white and republican state officials across the u.s. trying to take control over majority-non-white cities. and in san francisco, the city's board of supervisors accepted recommendations for a reparations plan that would offer $5 million to each eligible african american resident, among other measures. it was just one of many steps on the way to making reparations a reality for black san franciscans but offered new hope for the movement, which regained traction following the 2020 uprising for racial justice. on tuesday, backers of the

reparations plan spoke at the board hearing, including black police officer yulanda williams. >> when my parents migrated here from louisiana to san frcisco, it was for hope and a dream that they would be treated fairly and equally. and for them to have had to witness the racial disparity that i received in the city as a peace officer was absolutely atrocious. it is time for you to do the right thing and provide us with a reparations, make us whole, make us important in your lives. black lives matter. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, joined by democracy now! co-host nermeen shaikh. hi, nermeen. nermeen: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: antony blinken has arrived

in nigeria, becoming the first u.s. secretary of state to ever visit the former french colony. blinken's visit comes as the united states is openly vying with china and russia for influence across africa. niger has become a critical u.s. ally in the sahel region which has seen recent military coups in mali and burkina faso. in 2019, the u.s. opened a new drum base in the capital agadez. the u.s. also has about 800 military personnel in niger. the u.s. military presence in niger made headlines in 2017 when four u.s. special forces and five soldiers from niger were killed in an ambush. niger also remains one of the poorest nations in the world. in the united nations development program's most recent human development index, niger ranks 189th out of 191 countries, with only neighboring chad and nearby newly-formed and war-ravaged south sudan below it.

80% of niger lies within the sahara desert. life expectancy is only 60 years old and the mean education level for its 25 million citizens is only two years. secretary of state blinken arrived in niger after a trip to ethiopia, which we will talk about the later in the program. but we begin now with two guests. here in new york is stephanie savell, co-director of the costs of war project at brown university's watson institute for international and public affairs. she's an anthropologist who has researched u.s. militarism in west africa and beyond. she just recently returned from niger. we are also joined by coumba toure. she is chair of the board for trust africa and an ambassador for africans rising for unity, justice, peace & dignity. she's a writer and activist based in senegal but is joining us from washington. we welcome you both to democracy now! let's begin with stephanie savell.

if you can start off by talking about niger right now, why you believe secretary of state, the first secretary state visit to niger, is there, what is the u.s. interest in niger. >> this is a really significant visit. it is a significant moment. france has just recently pulled out of neighboring burkina faso so it is a moment when western powers are kind of figuring out what the next steps are in the region. niger is one of the last strongholds of u.s. security partnerships in the region, which is increasingly spiraling into violence and chaos led by some of the militant groups affiliated with al qaeda and isis. the u.s. sees niger as one of its strongest allies in this region, which the u.s. positioned as really one of the

latest fronts in the ongoing post-9/11 wars, where george w. bush called the war on terror, contrary to what many americans, this war is ongoing and this is one of the latest france and this visit to niger is a signal in part of how important strategically niger is for the united states. 1 stephanie, could you explain the context of this? how is it that not just niger, but the broader region became such a focus for the u.s. and why the global war on terror now appears to be concentrated there, with a large number of terrorists incidents according to the global terrorism index, almost 50% of all terrorist -- terrorism-related deaths occurred in that region. >> that's right. the region began kind of spiraling into cycles of

violence in 2012, really in 2012 it before then, when mali was politically destabilized in the north. rebels that were formally fighting for qaddafi in libya limited his weapons box and came down into mali where there was a separatist movement. this has led to this spiraling cycle in which these militant groups have been gaining ground bust governments in the region, aided by u.s. training assistance funding, equipment, has been really waging their own wars on terror. the government-sponsored violence has been one of the factors that has contributed to these intensifying spirals of violence. blowback. so a lot of recruitment to these militant groups is coming in retaliation against government

forces that in some cases are indiscriminately targeting certain ethnic groups. so it is one of these situations where there is a lot of poverty, corruption. people feel abandoned by the central government. the government is respond with force, and these situations are just getting worse and worse. 1 coumba toure, if you could also respond to secretary of state blinken's visit to niger and to the region, the first of secretary of state -- american secretary of state to the region. the significance of the visit and what you would like to see come out of it? >> thank you for having me. the first thing i would say is that there is definitely a shift that is needed in the relationship between the u.s. and african countries.

i see with this visit and before, the meeting were different leaders of africa country were invited. that is clearly where we are going. but the truth is in this region, everyone comes for their own interest, the u.s. included. people are there for the natural resources poster people are there for political influence. different nations elbowing for power with total disregard to the people who live on those lands. i believe for a new relationship to really shape, africa needs to be looked at as a continent where there are human beings, not just a place for power again and for exploitation. amy: coumba toure, if you can

talk about the issues that are being faced by the continent, how you see the ukraine war affecting them, issues from energy transition to global health, and how this visit by the secretary of state of the united states is viewed around africa. >> i would say most people on the continent are not directly connected to this visit. the u.s. secretary of state is meeting with a certain level -- it is high level meetings. it is meeting with most of the time leadership that even people on the continent don't always connect with or recognize as such. most people are abandoned by their government. they figure out their lives for themselves.

we are yet to see a type of cooperation or connection with african people that really befit africans, that look at people's health, that look at their education, that look at what people need in terms of mobility. what is talked about is war, arms, training military. and that not the fundamental need for people. yes, right now with the war in ukraine, that also is another power -- i would say power again going on because the truth is right now the u.s. and the eu are looking at african countries to align themselves, you know, against russia. which some of these countries are hesitant of doing because

for south africa, for example, having received support before, for now they are really speaking in the neutral tone. there are other countries also on the continent that are not as quick as jumping in and saying yes to whatever the u.s. and you say. -- and eu say. right now the visit is more about placing the u.s. in front of other powers whether be china, russia, turkey, japan -- everyone has a meeting or set up something to bring african leaders to be with them. nermeen: stephanie, if you can respond to what coumba said, in particular, talk about the different countries vying for influence in the region.

and also the proliferation of small arms across the region, the increase in smuggling, trafficking of small arms and whose hands those arms are falling into, the various armed groups that are fighting in the region now and the role of the u.s.. >> so there are lots of countries in the west african region who are involved in training nigerian forces and providing what they call curity assistance. germans and french and italians. there are also concerns about a russian group that is spreading influence, particularly in mali and there are rumors that it might be gaining a little bit of influence in burkina faso.

they have been accused of committing atrocities. it is surprising. when i was in the airport in the capital of niger, and where the u.s. drone base is based some 100 miles into the deserof the north, uc foreigners around. there is -- i've been working in west africa for 20 years and i have never seen so many western military types, contractors and things -- the u.s. has about 800 soldiers close to niger, but that does not convey aall the numbers of contractors who are coming in to do training and the numbers of special forces operations like the people who are coming in and out. it is really a significant operation, significant for other

countries as well, germany included and others. this region has become a hub for illicit trafficking, not just of small arms but also drugs and people. there's a big migrant smuggling route in the desert of niger. so it is a central point in the desert. agadez for hundreds of years has been his trading post between coastal west africa in the desert to the north. it has been really important on trade routes for centuries. and now a lot of what is going on is these militant groups who are saying they are affiliated with the islamic state and al qaeda are essentially -- a lot of people are saying these guys are bandits. they are criminals who are

donning the mantle of the so-called terrorism to smuggle these goods and profit. amy: i wanted to ask you, professor, in a moment we will be talking about this 20th anniversary of the u.s. invasion of iraq, which really began with the bush administration's going after niger -- or rather going after saddam hussein saying he got uranium from niger. that's how niger came into the consciousness of so many americans. it was a false claim. the late joe wilson was sent there to investigate. he said it was false. talk about how the u.s. has used niger over the years and what effect that had even 20 years later. >> yeah, the u.s. began -- it is

important to situate the u.s. actions in niger particularly in the wake of 9/11, the suhail region became kind of hidden. and not major focus of u.s. counterterrorism activities. there was the initiative that became the counterterrorism partnership. that started right after in 2002, 2003, 2004. and since all of these years, the u.s. has just been channeling a lot of equipment and money for military operations even back before this region had much of a terrorist threat at all, this was what this cohort under the bush administration -- they were acting according to the doctrine of preemptive war. where in the slightest

possibility of a terror attack warranted any kind of prevented action. we saw that happening all over the world. so this is just one region. i have a map i have put together of all of the places, about 85 countries in the world, where the u.s. engaged in some sort of counterterrorism activity. my research in the west africansuhail was asking, what does it mean? how do we zoom into this data point on this map? even though it is kind of a drop in the bucket in terms of the massive pentagon spending on counterterrorism, what does this mean for these countries? a country like niger is getting millions of dollars a year and a assistance from u.s., and that is really significant. that has created this framework that the appropriate way to fight the problem of terror attacks is with a war. historically, research shows there are lots of other ways to

address -- for governments to address terror attacks. you can treated as a policing problem, as a matter of political negotiation so incorporating militants into the legitimate political sphere, addressing the roots of people's grievances -- primarily the fact people are needing jobs, needing to eat, they are furious at corruption, furious at being ignored by government policy. all that this is driving the unrest. if you treat that as a war problem and send soldiers in and start indiscriminately attacking certain groups of people -- again, just like in other parts of the world, we are seeing certain groups of people who already bear the brunt of prejudice, particularly like the full on ethnic group that are traditionally herders and muslim for centuries. they are bearing the brunt of a lot of government policies

across the region. we are seeing this war on terror , the consequences of this mentality that has been introduced and supported with all of this money and weapons and political rhetoric over the years. we are seeing the consequences of that play out. nermeen: coumba, you spoke earlier about the different countries in the region because of the resources in the region. if you could explain what those resources are -- energy reserves, gold, etc.? and also the impact of the climate crisis in the suhail region, which is reportedly heating at 1.5 times the rate of the global average. close yes. if we start with niger, it is uranium. the issue is uranium. what is everybody so interested in a small country that is

deserted? it is not because -- the issue is always about resources and it always has been for the whole african continent stop and it is not something new. you take it back all the way from slavery to colonization to this day, countries of the western sphere, whether europe, u.s., canada countries have come to africa for the resources. today, they may resources that people are looking at our -- our mineral resources, arms, technology and for energy. what i really want to convey is it is about time that we look at the lives of people, that

cooperation is about supporting small farmers that produce food that helps people live healthy lives. it is about looking at health systems, not supporting big pharma but looking at health systems that actually touch people. and we really want to build peace? it is not about arming and rearming as much as possible people and excluding the majority of populations. we need different relationships between our countries and the u.s., and part of it needs to come people to people. i am here traveling in the u.s., just came from selma, alabama, that has been tornado struck. for 30 years, there is been connection between regular

people in west africa and people in the u.s., mainly from the african-american community. we need to get at the bottom of this relationships back with respect. the world has been functioning on white supremacy, valuing what lives and profit is the core of the day needs to be done and we need to change that. amy: coumba toure, thank you for being with us, chair of the board for trust africa and an ambassador for africans rising. writer and activist based in senegal. stephanie savell is co-director of the costs of war project at brown university's watson institute for international and public affairs. she's an anthropologist who has researched u.s. militarism in west africa and beyond. just back from niger.

next up, we'll get the situation in ethiopia four months after the piece still was signed to end the war in tigray and just after secretary of state blinken has just left there. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. as we continue to look at u.s. secretary of state antony blinken's trip to africa, we turn to ethiopia. on wednesday, blinken met with ethiopian prime minister abiy ahmed and other top officials

including leaders from the northern tigray region. blinken praised the four-month-old peace deal that ended two years of fighting between government troops and forces in tigray. he called for accountability for war crimes committed without casting blame on either side. >> the conflict was absolutely devastating. hundreds of thousands, killed. widespread sexual violence against women. millions forced to flee their homes. many left in need of food, shelter, medicine. hospitals, schools, businesses destroyed. the cessation of hostilities agreement is a major agreement and step forward, saving lives, changing lives. amy: during his trip, blinken announced $331 million in new u.s. humanitarian assistance for ethiopia. to talk more about blinken's trip there, we are joined by tsedale lemma. she is a journalist and the founder of the addis standard,

an english-language monthly news magazine based in ethiopia. she is joining us from germany. welcome back to democracy now! talk about the significance of this trip and what is actually happening in ethiopia and in the tigray region. how is this deal holding up? >> thank you. thank you for having me. u.s. is one of the major blockers of the peace deal that was signed in november between the tigray officials -- the argument is really not going according to what was stated in the document that was signed previously. it is very important secretary made this trip to push for implementation of this agreement. we are not saying so much --

neeen: could you explain what were the terms of the agreement that you say are not being met? >> the terms of the agreement, most importantly, are the establishment, the normalization of relations between the two gray state and the federal government and the establishment of an interim government in tigray between the united states, which is behind because [indiscernible] it is holding the budget. the government is holding the budget and civil servants not

been paid as we speak. it is been more than two years. they need to put pressure. other implementation of the peace agreement, the full restoration of services in the region, telecommunication and banking, also restored. not close to what is needed on the ground. humanitarian access is not fully implemented currently, so it is important peace agreement is complied by both parties. nermeen: you mentioned the u.s. was one of the main brokers of this agreement. who were the other parties involved and how can the agreement be implemented? >> the other parties involved are the african union itself -- established a monetary

mechanism. you seem initially heavy weaponry by the tigrayan forces and they have hinted that over to the federal gernment, but -- [indiscernible] forces still occupy tigray. this report from the verification mechanism has not surfaced so far yet. the other parties of the african union itself. there is a need for this verification mechanism to follow what has been implemented and what has not been followed through by the parties, particularly the federal government which has the responsibility of evacuating

forces from the sovereign land of tigray. amy: i want to talk about the issue of genocide. in late 2020 one, blinken said the u.s. would decide whether the crimes committed in northern ethiopia constitute genocide. the state department, according to a recent piece in foreign policy, the state department drafted a declaration in 2021 the ethiopian government's atrocities in tigray constituted genocide according to three u.s. officials familiar with the matter, but it never released that declaration. your response? >> yes, i think some of my colleagues on the ground tried to askhis question to the secretary of state, and i think his response was very vague. secretary blinken said -- he was

the first highest level official to meet. this report relearning the designation of genocide shows it. i think the u.s. is trying to leverage dipmacy over the issue of human rights. i don't think the west will come forward to publish -- designated what happened in tigray as genocide requires them to follow through. they're currently more focused on security. if you'll be up as opposed to a competing power -- ethiopia as opposed to a competing power. the region is experiencing

competition. wanting to have their prime minister on his side. i don't think they will be releasing this report. nermeen: before we conclude, if you could give us a quick ground on the war, what led to the situation and the commission of this effectively what has been called a genocide? >> the war started in november 2020. september 2020, tigray went ahead and holding a unilateral election for regional council members. after that, the relationship between tigrayan officials and the federal government, they were --

that election was a watershed moment that really put the final nail in the coffin. in november, two month after tigray held elections, so that is that the heart between the two and the outbreak of the war was also aided and abetted by eritrea. eritrea has historically been against the tigrayan dominating political party previously before the prime minister came to power. abiy ahmed was unhappy they held elections for local counsel. the two came together and the war broke out in november. after that is for the history

books. very tragic and hunting to the point now we have report that designated western tigray as genocide. amy: tsedale lemma, thank you for being with us, journalist and the founder of the addis standard, an english-language monthly news magazine based in ethiopia. next up, we begin our coverage of the 20th anniversary of the u.s. invasion of iraq. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. 20 years ago today, peace protests walked the globe, held across the world urging the united states to halt its

imminent plans to invade iraq. there were over 6000 candlelight vigils held march 16, 2003, as part of a day of action called by the late archbishop desmond tutu of south africa and others. three days later, yes president george w. bush announced the invasion of iraq have begun. he spoke march 19, 2003, in washington, d.c., was already march 20 in iraq. >> my fellow citizens, an american and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm iraq, to free its people, and to defend the world from great danger. on my orders, coalition forces have become striking selected targets of military importance to undermine saddam hussein's ability to wage a war. these are opening stages of what will be abroad and concerted campaign. amy: president bush is justified

on the false claim iraq's formally u.s. back dictator saddam hussein was secretly amassing wmd's, weapons of mass destruction. over the coming days on democracy now!, we will look at how a devastated iraq. today we're joined by nadje al-ali director of the center , for middle east studies at brown university where she's a professor of anthropology and middle east studies. she's also the author of several award-winning books on the u.s. invasion and occupation of iraq, including "what kind of liberation? women and the occupation of iraq." welcome to democracy now! you're joining us from providence where you are professor at brown. you been looking at this in your own history for years. talk about what we should understand 20 years after the u.s. invaded iraq. >> the invasion had a

devastating impact on iraqi society. i have been trying to document the gap between the rhetoric of liberation and bringing human rights, democracy, particularly in relation to women's rights, to iraq and the reality of what happened in the aftermath. with putting it against the historical background of 13 years of the most comprehensive sanctions that a country ever experienced -- i think that is really important. that when we think about the devastation and destruction of iraqi society, it started with the sanctions regime the second of august 1990. in my mind, the biggest losers in the postinvasion scenario has been women. the very same people that actually president bush used them as a symbol as the midwife of the new iraq, as he used to say, and while it is true women

have initially in the aftermath, there was some hope, there was quite a bit of mobilization of mushrooming of women's rights organizations, what we have seen systematically since 2003 is an erosion of the concept riots in the acts -- to education, to labor force that women actually had during the regime -- i am not supporting the atrocities of saddam hussein, but the fact 2003 invasion led to greater gender-based inequality, ship to greater social conservatism, led to lawlessness from destroyed infrastructure, health is in shambles, education is struggling. everyday life has become really

hard. not only for the thousands and thousands of iraqis who have been displaced internally or have become refugees and neighboring countries are come to europe or to the u.s., but people who stayed behind. me, the story of the past 20 years is a story of destruction, devastation, corruption, incompetence, but also a story of resilience. iraqis are not just passive victims. when i think about the 20 years, i'm not just thinking about the u.s. and the u.k. and their responsibility, i am also thinking about corrupt iraqi politicians, sectarian militia leaders, criminal gangs who have been terrorizing the country. while they have been facilitated by the invasion, they also have to take responsibility. it is a very complex picture. i think one of the things that

we have seen is there is a new generation of iraqis who is really trying to turn things around. it's a large-scale protest mets over the past few years -- movements over the past three years. so there is hope but what we have seen is a tragedy that has been unfolding and that was definitely not necessary. although i don't think there is a good invasion, i think in addition to the invasion, the u.s. did everything wrong that it could have done in the aftermath of the invasion. nermeen: professor, could you elaborate? what did the u.s. to after the invasion that was wrong? >> well, most notably, the disbanding of the military and all of the sudden we have million plus young men on the street without jobs, with arms, that contributed to the creation of militia and lots of grievances within this element

of population. the other thing is to go into iraq and think of it in sectarian terms, so the professional authority that was established by the u.s. was all based on so many sunni, so many shia, christian, kurds. that contributed to the sectarian division in iraq. aside from the fact women's rights -- the first thing that was dropped off the agenda. in the aftermath of the invasion when there was an explosion of lawlessness and chaos and gender-based violence, you have had u.s. military personnel who were approached by iraqi women's rights activists and were told, well, we don't do women. so despite all this rhetoric of,

yes, we are contributing to the liberation of women, the opposite took place. they turned a blind eye when we saw the measuring -- mushrooming of gender-based violence. it is very important process of coming to terms with the past 35 years of brutal dictatorship, but the way debaathification ended up working, it alienated a large portion of the population and contributed to the sectarian division. we know i says is -- isis is one side of the occupation. nermeen: professor, you mentioned to look at the context of which this took place.

it came after 11 years of these brutal sanctions against iraq -- more than 11 years, i think it was 13. >> 13 years. nermeen: 13 years of sanctions. just prior to that, iraq having emerged from an eight year war with iraq. if you could talk about both of those views? >> we really need to think more carefully about the 35 years because in the 1970's, iraq was, despite being a dictatorship, it was flourishing economically. there was the push for women to enter the labor force, education. there was welfare state. things started to get worse during the 1980's. the war with iran. during this period, every man between the ages of 15 and 65

had to go to the front. women during this period became superwoman because saddam hussein is some point came out in 1985 and said, every good iraqi woman should have five children. at the same time, while women were under pressure to produce the future soldiers of iraq, you would find them in all kinds of jobs. when i was visiting iraq during that time, i'm so women working at petrol stations, driving trucks. women built up many of the jobs that were previously held by men. so not a good situation but a situation where women to play an active role. after the invasion of kuwait in august 1990, we had the onset of sanctions. although the idea was the justification was to contain saddam, it had the opposite effect. saddam controls the limited resources.

it was during this time we saw the incredible shift in terms of increased poverty, saw the feminization of poverty, saw that all the welfare services the state provided like free childcare, free transportation to work, a robust health care system and education system -- all of this eroded during this period. i remember my aunt telling me during this time, she said the first gulf war in 1991 following the invasion of kuwait, bridges were destroyed but sanctions destroyed our society. you cannot recover from that. amy: professor, if you could -- we just have a minute, if you could end with what you want to leave people with on this 20th anniversary of the war. >> well, i think for people in the u.s., it is high time to

rethink u.s. military interventions in the world, but also time to think about responsibility, accountability, and possible reparations. i also want to end on a note, as i said the young generation of iraqis are trying to go -- live beyond the impact of the occupation. there is lots of creativity and resourcefulness and positive energy. so i have some hope. but i think for people, especially in this country, it is high time to really rethink u.s. military involvement and also policy more broadly, not just in iraq but the middle east and the world generally. amy: nadje al-ali is the director of the center for middle east studies at brown university where she's a professor of anthropology and middle east studies. her books include "what kind of liberation? women and the occupation of iraq." in fact, there are still 2500

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