>> i martha maccallum in for chris wallace. an eerie anniversary of hundreds of white nationalists prepared to mount a repeat rally, this time in front of the white house, marking one year since the torch marched in the violence in charlottesville. ♪ >> [inaudible] >> martha: the event today is expected to draw thousands of counter protesters. >> we know that we have people coming to our city for the sole purpose of spewing hate. >> martha: while in virginia. we discuss the state of race relations in america and the president's policies with

white house counselor kellyanne conway. then, pointing to growing threats from russia and china, the white house declares space the next battlefield. >> our adversaries have transformed space into a war fighting domain already. the united states will not shrink from this challenge. >> martha: will discuss the plans for a space course and new sanctions on iran, russia and turkey with two key members of the senate armed services' committee, lindsey graham of south carolina and the committee's top democrat, jack reed of rhode island. then. >> i appreciate it. >> two contested races still too close to call. both considered bellwethers for november's midterm grade we will ask our sunday panel how they test trumps power at the bowl. all right now on "fox news sunday." >> martha: and hello again from fox news in washington,

this weekend white nationalists will use the white house as their backdrop as they take to the streets once again. what began last summer as a gathering to defend the statue of robert e. lee devolved into something much darker. the protesters and counter protesters wanted the streets and then a car driven by a suspected neil nazi plowed into the crowd injuring 19 others. today the statue remains behind a barricade. meanwhile, more violence in the city of chicago where they also have seen protests of their own now against the killings in their streets. 20 people were shot this weekend, two of them fatally, three children were wounded, including a 12-year-old girl as the city adds 600 officers to patrol the streets after last weekend's brutal violence and 74 shootings that left 12 people dead. all of this as the president speaks out for unity and faces

new criticism for some of his latest tweets going after nfl players, who are once again protesting during our national anthem. here to speak about all of this, kellyanne conway, counselor to the president and just a moment. but first a peter doocy who is live in lafayette park, the site of today's rally. peter. >> good morning, there's a white civil rights rally planned for lafayette park this afternoon. white nationalist participants plan to meet in northern virginia 15 miles or ten metro stops away from here to then ride the rails into the district. we don't know how many people plan to show up but the permit requested room for as many as 400 protesters. there are also planned counter protests nearby that could draw thousands. today's event is called unite the right to. speakers include a former kkk leader david duke and it's happening here in d.c. because it's organized through jason kessler, was denied a permit to rally again in charlottesville. tensions in charlottesville

remain high for the anniversary of last year's unite the right rally where a demonstration of the removal against a robert e. lee statue devolved into deadly chaos, violence president trump was initially criticized for characterizing like this. >> i think there's blame at both sites. you look at both sides. i think there's blame on both sides and have no doubt about i it. >> the president is not going to be anywhere close to the white house today. he will remain in bedminster, new jersey. last night he hosted a bikers for trump event and the biggest headline there was that he called omarosa, former white house staffer who wrote a book alleging that the president is a racist, a "lowlife." if the president has tweeted this weekend to broadly condemn racism and violence but he has not specifically addressed today's event. martha. >> martha: peter, thank you very much greater joining me now from fox news headquarters in new york, kellyanne conway, counselor to the president. welcome back to "fox news sunday," good to have you here this morning. just be too good to thank you,

martha. >> martha: the president tweeted this week in the eyelets in charlottesville a year ago, we must come together as a nation. i condemn all types of racism and acts of violence, peace to all americans. in a new poll, 57% say that race relations are actually worse under president trump since he became president. so does he need more than tweets to be convincing on this issue, kelly and? >> kellyanne: two things i would say about that, and first is when our first african-american president barack obama left office it was very mixed polling and very missed assessment eight years after he was in office. so this is not unique to president trump in terms of people wanting to improve. i think we should all agree that we always want the nations to improve among people of different backgrounds and different races. secondly, i think you've got to look at president trump's record with respect to men and women of color. the record low unemployment rate

among african-americans, hispanic americans, asian-americans and others is remarkable and it's owing to his policies, his bold leadership that there are so many more people of color who are able to access these new jobs in manufacturing, and professional industries as well in mining as well, carpentry his way up and yet this president is also -- he is trying to give those who are trapped in conventional school systems that are failing the students another choice. the prison reform initiative that jared kushner and president trump have put forth is meant to help all people of all races but we know disproportionately many of our prisons, those are african-americans were languishing in prisons, those who have paid a debt to society and can reenter to have the skilled, education opportunities and indeed make themselves available for the 6.6 million jobs that are out there.

this is a president who's doing all of that and even my former colleagues in the west wing omarosa agreed with much of that when she was there. >> martha: i want to talk about that in the moment. but you look at the disparity in the numbers. one president obama left office, 37% that he had made race relations works. as i pointed out just a moment ago the number for the president right now is a 57% of those believe that he has made relations works. so given the fact that as you point out the unemployment numbers are better for minorities and all of the efforts that the president has made which you just mentioned that are trying to -- there still seems to be that feeling as his critics say that he doesn't want to make america great again he wants to make america white again. can he be more articulate, more outspoken on this issue, one of the other things we talked about this week, the tweets about the nfl players. some people say he's tougher on nfl players and athletes than he is on the movements that we are about to see this afternoon in washington. >> kellyanne: that's just a terrible thing to say.

this president last august 14th said the following. it doesn't get much coverage so i'm going to read it. "racism is evil and those who call violence and its aims are criminals and thugs including the kkk, neil nazi and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as americans. that was the president of the united states, president trump, last august 14 of specifically kkk, neo-nazis, white supremacists after all that before that and after that denouncing racism, bigotry, hatred and violence as he did again yesterday. as for the national anthem, the president made very clear that he believes it's not a big ask to have people stand for the flag and the national anthem at football games and elsewhere and if these professional athletes want to go back into their communities or anywhere they want where they have considerable platforms and in most cases very big popularity, that they should go ahead and make their voices known they are buried on the when people go to

play, it sounds like the nfl's new policy actually agreed with this. if they said were going to be on the field -- there you go. >> martha: limit go back to omarosa. she was in charge of african-american outreach for the white house. she has said that she was fired because she knew too much about a tape on which the president used the n-word. she also has said she heard him call your husband derogatory names as well. did the president to either of those things, kelly and? >> kellyanne: he did not. i've never heard him use a racial slur about anyone. today is two years to the day he asked me to be his campaign manager. i've worked alongside of him for over two straight years without interruption. i have never once heard him say that about anyone and i never heard omarosa complained that she had heard the president say it about anyone either when she was there.

she has contradicted her own account. she told abc news that after she was fired that she had resigned. she is not saying she was fired. she told abc news the day after she was hired that donald trump is not a racist, she also had a very glowing appraisal of donald trump the businessman, the candidate and indeed the president, specifically in trying to reach out to african-americans, helping the hbc, historically black colleges and universities, prison reform. she criticized the congressional caucus. >> martha: you heard what the president said at bedminster yesterday, he called her a low life. which raises an obvious question, why was she ever hired in the first place if the president thinks she's a lowlife? >> kellyanne: it's a low blow to write a book with lies and accusations and insinuations, 30 pieces of silver or a seven figure book, you and your publisher and ghostwriters, all that has changed was this book

deal and her being fired, so i think he probably feels very betrayed and also very disappointed because i always had a very good working relationship with omarosa and the fact is in the west wing i never heard or a single time, not on the campaign, the west wing, even after that -- my husband very strongly said this is absurd all the way around, that the president would not use these words about him. my husband is half filipino. and i just never heard that. and i think that matters. also i think omarosa missed a great opportunity to take credit for all of the wonderful gains the president has made for people of color. whether it's the hbc's, the historically low unemployment numbers, the accessibility of more jobs, the drug reform that i worked on firsthand on behalf of the president, she said have said i'm very glad that all of our labors are bearing fruit, but instead she is trying to

sell books and settle scores and you've got to be anti-drum for those to be successful. it's very disappointing. >> martha: let me ask you one more question before i let you go on a new topic. august 15th "the boston globe" possessed newspapers across the country to put out editorials essentially attacking the president for his dirty work, this is their quote, against the freak press, how do you respond to that? >> that's what they do every single day. every single day the mainstream media, which now has anywhere from 17 to 20% approval rating that i have seen his anti-comp and they are not just being skeptical, they are being cynical. if they make everything about them. even at these rallies the price covers the part that's about the price. the people here the policies that are about the people and i think that the price, many of them are trying to get the president instead of get the story. many of them as you well know are trying to become the story. if they get to go on late night

tv, that is not journalism and i don't know how people can feel that modern reporting and journalism industry includes people like this that was hired by "the new york times" because she wonders how quickly white people can burn, cancel white people, make fun of white men. you've got marc cavuto from politico last week in tampa saying calling that trump supporters "garbage people" i think if you line them all up to each other they would have a full set of teeth. i'm sure you as a responsible and respected reporter would object to that. they are not -- they are trying to erase this presidency so a democrat is elected president, a very successful month. but many of them are in a dying industry that unlike the trump administration is not very profitable. they try to keep getting wrong and stopping so reflexively

antitrust. good to see you, thanks for joining us. >> martha: coming up next we bring in our sunday group to discuss the racial divide that is in this country and why. plus, do democrats have a pelosi problem? >> will you vote for nancy pelosi? >> probably not. >> probably not. >> that's my answer. probably not. >> i think we need new leadership. ♪ helping cars emit less. making cars lighter, it's a good place to start, advanced oils for those hard-working parts. fuels that go further so drivers pump less. improving efficiency is what we do best. energy lives here. improving efficiency is what we do best. google is bringing its grow with google tour to columbia

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>> [inaudible]

>> martha: protesting last night on the university of virginia campus on the anniversary weekend of the unite the right rally that led to violence here in charlottesville. of time now the sunday group, former press secretary to mice vice president penns, marc lotter. juan williams. lisa lerer and charles hurt, opinion editor for the washington times. thanks to all of you for being today. you have a new book called what the hell do you have to lose which hearkens back to something president trump back on the campaign trail employing african-americans to give them a chance. he got about 8% of the african-american vote, which is not allowed but a little bit more than romney and mccain got when they ran. how do you think the president is doing on this issue? >> i think it's pretty clear that a year after charlottesville the president continues to talk about blacks, about latinos to his white base as a group that she would say black and latinos are dumb,

violent and less patriotic than white americans. i think that's racist kind of language but he uses that. he placed to that tribalism and in a way it's to his political advantage. he seems to think it encourages or stirs up his base of voters to support him, but i think it also stirs up and emboldens the white nationalists, the kkk, the neo-nazis, that's why you see him pulling -- i think quinnipiac is a poll, 55% of americans see president trump as acting in a way that is emboldening -- >> martha: give me an example about how he is called african-americans dumb. >> this week with lebron james. >> why is that because of the color of his skin? >> what he does is he plays to the racial stereotype as blacks has less intelligent. >> martha: he called a lot of people dumb. >> he has here a sort of purposeful intentional lack of attention to exactly the racial stereotype of shut up and dribble. you were just a basketball

player. if you don't have the right to be critical of your president. in the way that nfl players now are viewed as unpatriotic by trump even though they are simply talking about police brutality and exercising strong constitutional rights and you see this behavior by trump by the way a year later after charlottesville being mimicked now by republican candidates, cory stewart in virginia, illinois, california, congressional candidates were holocaust deniers. >> martha: charlie, to what he saying here. >> i think it's an incredibly unfair assessment of president trump. i don't think that he is playing -- when he calls lebron james jump over over recalls dumb, he's not drawing any nexus between his race and being dumb and i think the people that do try to draw some nexus, i think they are the ones who are dragging race into it. i think politics in america over

the past 20 years in the democratic party has been by far the worst of it in the past couple of decades, has used race, religion and gender to divide people and they make the whole problem so much worse and i think that -- i don't think you could possibly deny that democrats have used racial politics at least as much as conservatives may have decades ago. and it is tearing us apart. a year ago today was a tragic event, one innocent person died, to innocent virginia state troopers were killed, but let's put it into perspective. you noted at the top of the show the number of people shot and killed in chicago. the basic weekend. if the media focuses on this stuff, politicians focus on it

because they want to get these divisions in a very damaging way but i think if we step back and put it into perspective, race relations in this country are a whole lot better than i think you would get the impression from reading the media or listening to politicians were trying to make politics out about a all of it. i think everyone should calm down a little bit and put this into perspective bring >> martha: a couple interesting voices on that and i want to get thoughts from you on this. democratic chicago, he says that the democrats come here today calling on the president. he said he wanted to help people in chicago and i accept that help. that is number one, we want to receive help from the president of the united states. another voice, kanye west talking to jimmy kimmel had this to say when jimmy kimmel pushed back on his support of president trump, watch. >> the hip-hop immunity, they can bully me because at that

point if i'm afraid to be me i'm no longer me. >> martha: let me go to you on the politics of all of this because when it comes to election time, how will this impact the president with moderates and independent voters? >> it's been so striking about all these sort of incidents with the president is that normally when you have this kind of racial unrest, presidents step in and try to calm the situation down. that is not clearly what this president does. he seems to thrive on this kind of tension and divisiveness, but it really hasn't caused them. a year after charlottesville, republicans are more unified around him. he is still hotly desired most places, a lot of places on the campaign trail. he hasn't really paid a price for what he said in his back and forth about the charlottesville incident a year ago. so i think for the president, for a lot of people around the president about that is that there is no single incident that is going to tank him, or

certainly tank the support. hurting more with independence either. they are not really holding their breath for a katrina moment. that's not really going to happen with this president. >> martha: kamala harris, talking about identity politics, let's watch. >> i have a problem with that phrase, identity politics. because let's be clear, when people say that, it's a pejorative. that phrase is used to divide and it is used to distract. its purpose is to minimize and marginalize issues that impact all of us. it is used to try and shut us up. >> martha: this is the debate we are talking about, mark, your thoughts? >> to charlie's point earlier, democrats have been engaging in identity politics for decades now it is not something that is likely to change anytime soon. in fact, i think because of people like kanye west and others were coming out and

saying i'm going to give this president a chance for the ones who actually took the president up and said what do you have to lose. as more and more people are coming over and saying i look at the unemployment rate that president trump talks about. i look at our increased wages. i see him engaging on the things he was going to do. i will give them a chance the more and more the democrats will have to try to keep those people into their political fold and it's just not something i think is going to work in the long term and when you look at the president's approval rating among african-americans right now it has doubled according to some recent polls about 20%. so it shows that the results do matter and people are starting to think critically for themselves. >> martha: more about the trump politics with regard to this, we will take a quick break, see you in a bit. less than a month after the helsinki summit the work towards common ground is now in the middle of something called economic warfare. so where are the u.s. and russia in terms of our relations really

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>> martha: coming up the trump administration imposes more economic sanctions are russia, iran and turkey. >> sanctions is a way that we can try to encourage better behavior on the part of government. >> martha: we will discuss the effectiveness of this

>> we denounce the order that threatens the whole world with the trade war in order to shake them down. >> martha: turk is president locking lashing out at the united states over sanctions and tariffs that sent that nations currency tumbling and strained relations between the two nato allies. senator lindsey graham and senator jack reed, both members of the armed services committee

join us now and we began with senator graham, welcome back to "fox news sunday," good to have you with us here today. in a "new york times" editorial, he went on to say that the united states -- until the united states starts respecting turkey sovereignty improves and understands the dangers that our nation faces, our partnership could be in jeopardy, which leads to the question, is this still a working relationship at all with turkey? >> senator graham: at an airbase in turkey, it needs to be a working relationship. when he turkey to help us in syria. we need turkey to help us in iraq. they are our nato ally but they have not just pastor bronson in jail, five or six other americans, turkish americans who work for the industry. we will not have a normal relationship with turkey until they let the pastor brunson out. the chargers are complete shams. it's a bogus event, they have nothing to do with trying to

topple the government. >> martha: i think in terms of the pastor brunson question in this back and forth between turkey and the united states over operation to overthrow the government in turkey, which is what he is so angry about, it's interesting to see that relationship, these are pinned on the return of these individuals, which is a way that we haven't really seen presidents work in the past. do you think this is going to be successful? is brunson going to come back and is there a possibility to repair this relationship? we also know that turkey wants to buy defense weaponry from russia. that's also something we don't want them to do. >> senator graham: this relationship needs to be repaired. it's an turkey's interest to have a good relationship with the united states and its and our interest to have a good relationship with turkey. i would like to one day do a free trade agreement, i would like to get them out of russia's orbit, pull them back into our sphere of influence, where they should be. but it will never be a normal relationship until pastor

brunson is out of jail. he had nothing to do with the uprising in 2016. the employees at the american embassy are not trying to overthrow the turkish government. in 2016 the military turned on the turkish president. i can understand his concerns. that's being blocked from russia, the premier mental defense system, we need to reset this relationship in the best way to do it is let pastor brunson come home and start ove over. >> martha: when the president left for helsinki he talked about all of the meetings that were ahead of him and at that point he said putin might be the easiest of all of them, that he wanted to find some common ground with the leader of russia. now we've got a situation where there are sanctions due to the poisoning that happened in the u.k. and dmitry medvedev is saying who they are in economic warfare at this point. is it fair to say the president has put the goal of finding

common ground with russia to the back burner at this point? >> senator graham: i think russian behavior has dominated the relationship here. i don't mind trying to have a better relationship with russia, they just need to act better to achieve that goal. they did, they are directly involved in killing the british citizen, the poison that was used in britain to kill this former soviet spy, soviet member who became a spy, came from russia. they are meddling in the 2018 election. i'm 100% certain they are continuing to meddle in our elections. we continue to disrupt the 2018 elections who i introduced hard-hitting sanctions. i applaud the administration for hitting russia based on what they did in britain. he will never have a better relationship with putin. i appreciate the president pushing back. >> martha: are nonforeign policy question with regards to

bruce ohr, department of justice official who worked under sally yates just a few offices down, he's becoming a much more central figure in what looks to be the initiation of this russia investigation. what do you know about that? >> senator graham: he is the number for a guy at the department of justice. his wife worked for fusion gps, the firm hired by the democratic national committee and the clinton campaign to find dirt on term. the hard christopher steele, a former british agent who went to russia, a bunch of political garbage. here's what i would tell the american people. both were campaigns or investigated by the fbi and the department of justice in 2016. when it came to the clinton campaign, she got a pass. the criminal investigation of the clinton campaign was a joke. when it came to the trump campaign it was corrupt, it was biased and i think unethical. bruce ohr should not have had any role investigating the trump campaign because his wife worked

at fusion gps. the fbi agent in charge of the clinton campaign hated trump like clinton and also started the counterintelligence investigation against trump. when it came to dianne feinstein, they went to her and said there's a chinese person working on your staff that we think may be tied to the turn dough my chinese government. when it came time to -- they never did the same for trump. these investigations against trump were corrupt at the court. they gave clinton a pass, bruce ohr was at least unethical. we need a special counsel to look at all things department of justice and fbi when it came to the trump investigation, particularly the counterintelligence investigation. >> martha: i've got one more minute with you so i'm going to circle back to north korea for a moment. the white house has really never explained the discrepancy between the president's tweet which says that there is no longer a nuclear threat from north korea and john bolton's

assessment that the agreement really has not yielded any progress at all. you said at one point that the president could potentially receive a nobel prize for what he was doing and north korea, so what do you say now? >> i think we need to be patient. north korea is going to respond appropriately, or they will go back to the same way of doing business. president trump has no place to kick the can when it comes to north korea. he would use military force to stop the measure programs, the nuclear program and to the orion's, watch what's going on with iran, do you want to be next? i appreciate the president withdrawing from the nuclear agreement with iran and try to tow us back economically. this is a religious theocracy. if you don't think trump will turn on you if you try to play and, watch what's going on in north korea. >> martha: always good to talk to, thank you very much. joining me now from rhode island, senator jack reed, the top democrat on the armed

services committee. thank you very much for being with us. as we look around the world, what we see is sort of a very broad spectrum of tariffs and sanctions as we were just discussing against turkey, iran, russia, also china. you said that you felt the tariffs against china or the right move one president trump put them in place. now china is pushing back with punitive tariffs against the united states as well, which some people are concerned could, down the road put a dent in the positive gdp growth that we have seen. here's the president talking about what's going on with china at bedminster this week. >> we are in a little bit of a fight with china right now. we want them to do well. >> martha: or do you think this is heading senator ? >> i think the president's approach has been dissed coordinated. he has imposed sanctions on a range of countries.

i don't think he has a strategic plan. i think he's essentially just lashing out and when he doesn't get his way he will invoke more sanctions. he's got sanctions against some of our closest allies like the canadians, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. i think if he had a more focused approach to china, if he indicated what he wanted changed specifically rather than just generically we are going to punish you until you stop doing everything you're doing doing. i think, again he has to be much more focused. >> martha: you did say it was a good idea for him to put the sanctions in place and i think a lot of people look at the trade imbalance, that they have a similar reaction. he's not wrong about how the united states has been mistreated in these deals. so doesn't that require a bit of patience at the table? >> senator reed: it requires patience but it also requires a consistent plan. it also requires cooperation with our training partners.

rather than going in with a concerted effort, unified effor effort, he has created issues among all our major trading partners and as a result china is able to in in a way isolates and diminish the effect of our sanctions, the effect of our policies. in the tariffs i think are less critical in terms of chinese tariffs and our tariffs. i think the real issue at stake here is the way that the chinese do not allow our companies to participate fairly in china to own companies, to protect their intellectual property. a more focused approach by president trump on those i think would be helpful. >> martha: that's clearly what the president is going for here. he's talked about it quite a bit in terms of intellectual property. so again, doesn't require patients and in the midst of the dealmaking to sort of wait out the tough part of this because that's a negotiation and do you think ultimately that it will draw them to the table? >> senator reed: i think it

requires patience obviously. but i think it will also require sort of a more systematic and calibrated approach. it's been sort of a wild ride with the president in terms of sanctions he's imposed. not just with respect to china. think he'd be in a much stronger position if he had a unified trading block working with him against china. he doesn't have that. and again, the question is in terms of patients, who has the patient's? i think the chinese seem to be indicating that they are not going to quickly succumb to these tariffs, these protectionist measures the united states is imposing greater it could a long process and they might have the ability to wait us out. again, this is going to show effects in our economy eventually and those effects i think will take away from the growth we are seeing. >> martha: let me switch to iran right now. the snapback sanctions are now in place. the deal is not something that

the united states is participating in anymore and as a result of that we saw some fairly aggressive moving up of the timetable for iran to carry out its military exercises that it does over the course of this week. your reaction to that end where you think that situation goes next? >> senator reed: you are right, they have moved up their annual exercises. they have conducted a ballistic missile exercise. the one thing they haven't done which i think is appropriate and i think we cannot ever allow if they have not been interfering interfering -- that has to be something that is absolutely nonnegotiable. i think a problem we have is after withdrawing from the jcpoa we have lost the support of our european allies. in fact the europeans are going to lengths to try to cushion the blow to the iranians and again you are into a situation where what's going to happen with interneuron.

i think there's a strong feeling that the hardliners will take more and more power, that they will begin to marginalize those people and i think using the term moderate in iran is not particularly accurate but those much more sensitive to world opinion will be marginalized and the hardliners will take over and the iranians have the ability through proxies particularly to interrupt, interfere and in fact cause us harm in iraq and syria and throughout the region. i think the biggest problem here is that we do not once again have a world standing with us against the iranians and they will try to divide and conquer, separate the europeans from us and continue to do that. >> martha: i want to ask about the space force, a lot of attention, even some rating this week. but it's a serious proposal on the part of the president that he wants to start this six the branch of the military. mark kelly, the former astronaut told me the other night that he

thinks it's a bad idea, that it's a waste of money and it's redundant. buzz aldrin also weighed in and said he thought it was a huge giant leap for mankind. he's very in favor of it. how about you? >> senator reed: i think we have to reorganize our space forces because our threats are now in multiple dimensions but i think creating a separate service with all of the infrastructure is not the way to go. we in the national defense authorization act authorized a sub unified command that i think would begin to pull together these different strands. every service has some sort of connection to space. i was a paratrooper for several years. if you are on the ground you need gps to give you directions and guidance. if you are at sea you need space assets. this is not a one service dimension and i think creating a separate service would just add bureaucracy without effect. what we have to do is unify our

current efforts. one of the good models for this is a joint special operations command which is multiple services, seals, rangers, green berets, air force, special operators. they operate very unified that there's no service with all the paraphernalia and bureaucracy. that's the direction was at her. >> martha: senator, thank you sir, good to see you. coming up we will bring back the panel undiscussed by bruce orr is now becoming a more central figure and how the russia investigation.its legs in the first place. and rudy giuliani speaks out. ♪

>> the reality is he doesn't

need to ask a single question on obstruction, he has all the answers. the president is not going to change his testimony, so stop the nonsense. if you are to trap him into perjury because you don't have a case. >> martha: rudy giuliani on the back and forth over special counsel robert mueller's interview for a the president. good to have the panel here. mark, let me start with you, your thoughts on rudy giuliani's tactics here and is he trying to convince the president not to sit down with robert mueller do you think? >> probably to a certain extent during the president has said on multiple occasions he'd be open to the idea. his lawyers have pretty much unanimously said they are not. a message in both directions. for the special put counsel to prepare but it's probably not going to happen and secondly to the president reiterating that they don't think it's a good idea. >> martha: what's the impact if he sits down or if he does not? >> this is more of a p.r. strategy than a legal strategy. i feel sometimes like i'm having

breakfast with rudy giuliani he is on my television so much. but that may be the right way to go. in the end this could go to congress. if democrats take the house this could be impeachment. this will be a political fight and i think the president's team is setting it up that way. when all the presidents lawyers still want him to testify but they also -- or do the interview but they also don't wanted to look like he doesn't want to do the interview because that might look like he's hiding something. this whole back-and-forth is a way to stretch out the argument, make it look that maybe the president is or is not -- make it look like he has and dry out this whole back-and-forth for as long as possible. >> martha: i wish we had a crystal ball so we could see how this ends. jay sekulow with his other attorney also came out this wee week. he said basically we didn't accept the offer from a special counsel that they presented in terms of the parameters for those questions. which leads to the question once again, when you hear all of thi

this, lots were rudy giuliani and jay sekulow. we have to wonder the message -- >> what more is donald trump going to say? has answered all of -- do you agree with rudy giuliani's point there? >> i do. the problem is he walks in some something unintentionally or unintentionally intentionally that's not true on a completely unrelated matter and it ends up being a perjury trap. the president has -- it's not like he's been quiet about this stuff. he has opined about every aspect of the investigation, the people involved in the investigation. if mueller would just be satisfied with an interrogation via twitter that he would have all of his answers. >> the fact is the president keeps changing his stories on the trump tower meeting for

example so we don't know exactly, we can't say that we know exactly what he thinks but we do know that this week he tweeted that jeff sessions, the attorney general should get active an end the so-called witch hunt in the president's terms. i think what this is about is picking up on what lisa was saying, it's a public relations campaign by giuliani and jay sekulow to say to people you can't trust the fbi, you can't trust the robert mueller special prosecutor investigation. and as a result, listen to me, this is what the president had said explicitly. don't listen to the press, that's fake news. listen to what i say, that's what's going on and i think he's speaking to his base in that regard. and a lot of this really in my mind blows down to a diversionary tactic if we are thinking in terms of war strategy. >> martha: let's take a look at the bruce ohr part of the story because he's been sort of a back player in all of this but according to some new investigative reporting it appears he may have been a lot more central to the investigation in the beginning

origins then we may have realized. let's take a look at this quote from a hole. it's has a close review of these new documents shows just how closely associate deputy attorney general bruce ohr, who reported to sally yates maintained contact with fusion and in particular it's a primary source. christopher steele, before, during and after the election. i want to pull up some of these communications between christopher steele and bruce ohr. this is who they are perceived to be between. this is july 1st. this is just before operation cross fire gets underway. steel wanted to give him urgent info -- you are looking at january 31st. but let me tell you one thing first. before that happened they communicated on our favorite business tycoon. we don't knows that necessarily who that is what you can surmise perhaps who that might be based on this.

that was on july 1st that he had urgent information he wanted to give to bruce ohr on our favorite business tycoon. then, flash forward to july 31st. at this point bruce ohr is talking to christopher steele according to these reports and he is talking about checking to see if he is okay. let's put the january 31st 1 back up on the screen now. the reason he wants to know if bruce ohr is okay is because sally yates has just been fired that day. he's trying to figure out if his connection -- this is after the fbi has fire christopher steele. christopher steele now no longer works for the federal governmen government. so he says just want to check with you that you are okay. able to help locally as discussed. along with your bureau colleagues. he says according to these reports i'm still here and able to help as discussed. i will let you know if that changes. then move forward to this cryptic message. if you end up out though,

meaning bruce ohr if you were to lose his job as sally yates did, i really need another bureau contact point number who was briefed. we can't allow our guy to be forced to go back home that would be disastrous. they are trying to investigate who our guy and where back home might be in all of this but let me talk with you. >> christopher steele is like kojo. you can't kill him. he keeps coming back. and what these messages reveal is that he was coming back even after president trump had been sworn in and he's worried about bruce ohr being removed and who will be his contact person at that point? it undermines the credibility of the fbi and the doj obviously. but it feeds all of the questions that without all along about how both the launch of the

investigation originally into trump collusion -- alleged collusion with russia, but also whether or not there was sort of a vendetta or something. at all levels of the department, some effort to try to thwart the president and a true norm everybody whether you are democrat or republican, it should be very alarming. >> martha: that is the question, whether or not there was some sort of concerted effort between the doj and the fbi and christopher steele, who was hired by the hillary clinton campaign to keep this fire burning, to figure out what they could dig up perhaps on president trump. nellie ohr, i just want to point out, bruce ohr's wife works for fusion gps which we didn't mention before. >> correct. let me offer a different point of view, you had christopher steele as a former spy, well-respected spy across the globe who thought he had

information. remember the fbi did not disclose that they had an ongoing investigation of donald trump before the election. here comes christopher steele and he says they are getting rid of obama era justice department officials. who can i talk to in the government if i discover added solid information? i think there's not much here to the story except that it feeds donald trump's efforts to discredit the fbi, to discredit the justice department and justice department officials and to suggest but somehow there's a grand effort against him. but there's no putin team. this is a nothing burger. >> martha: want to ask you quickly about the midterm outcomes this week. what do you think are the implications? >> i never put a lot of a lot of stock into special elections in the middle of summer before people are going back to school.

great that we're winning that race and we will continue to do so. i think the bigger message is to republican officeholders and candidates. get out there, do your job, raise money, knock on doors, do not count on the fact that the president, vice president and rnc can come in at the last minute and help you because we may have to be in a lot of different places. you don't want to be in the outside looking in. >> martha: a lot of energy against nc pelosi, your reaction to that? >> i think republicans see that as a way to get republican voters who may not be crazy about the president, independen independents, they can get them against pelosi. >> martha: we will be back with a final word, thanks to the panel.

♪ >> martha: a live look at lafayette park across from the white house where there is a planned white nationalist rally today one year after charlottesville. keep it here for the latest on the rally and the expected counter protests this afternoon. i will see you tomorrow night for "the story" back in new york city at 7:00 p.m. eastern on fox news channel. that's it for today. chris is back next sunday. have a great week and we will see you next "fox news sunday." ♪

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