just lost it. >> reporter: sadly, i meet a lot of people in your situation. there are families that really want to know what happened, and then there are other people who are like, not going to bring him back and i don't want to spend another minute thinking about the murderer. you guys clearly in that first group. you wanted an answer, didn't you? >> oh, yeah, we wanted to know who would do this because we just could not understand who would want to kill eric. >> reporter: the family had pointed detective dimitry ruvin at eric's girlfriend, denise. >> we interviewed denise multiple times. >> reporter: ruvin's interest in denise picked up when he learned from the family that her romance with eric was on the rocks. >> he was with her probably about a year. and then after awhile he was just tired of being, i guess, bogged down by someone. >> reporter: according to ruvin, denise told him that she and eric were talking about breaking up by mutual agreement. ruvin said she also acknowledged

relationship, giving the detective a theory to consider. older woman, younger man. maybe see somebody else. >> right. >> reporter: and that breeds leads to. jealousy leads to murder. >> reporter: while he continued to investigate denise, ruvin building that there was a woman there he'd been dating for just >> that's why we wanted to talk to katrina. >> reporter: katrina ben came down to police headquarters for an interview. she's visibly upset here. just earlier that day, detective ruvin and his partner had told her that eric was dead. >> i just want to start again by saying just thank you. you don't have to be here. thank you, thank you, thank you for doing this. >> i don't care. oh my god. i want to know, too. >> yes.

>> reporter: they wanted whatever leads she could give them. but they began with the basics. >> how did you meet eric? >> i met eric outside, like two weekses after i'd been there. >> reporter: outside their building. >> and he asked me if i was a nurse. because he was starting some kind of agency nursing agency like what i worked for. >> reporter: katrina did work as a nurse for the nih, the national institutes of health. it turned out she and eric had plenty in common. >> i'm a basketball fan and so is he. >> reporter: the relationship friendly. katrina said she and eric had been dating weekly, usually on mondays, ever since. katrina wanted to know about progress in finding her lover's killer. >> we can't really tell you what's going on with the investigation. and the reason is because you're a witness. >> oh, my god! >> reporter: she asked if they could at least say where eric died.

>> well, i think we can tell her where it happened. >> he was killed in his apartment. >> reporter: the interview topic returned to the vibrant eric she knew. >> this guy had so many goals and so many dreams. it's just crazy. it's like he was having the best time of his life. and now he's dead. >> reporter: that explained, katrina said, why he never answered her recent texts. >> did he make any calls on tuesday? am i the only -- am i the last person? can you tell me that? i mean, i don't know if he stopped calling me or if he wasn't answering because he was dead? because i've been depressed and suffering and mad and crying, because i'm thinking he's not talking to me. we've been like this. just to settle my heart, you know? >> i think your heart can be settled. >> reporter: the detectives consoled her but also continued to probe about that last night together. two days before eric's body was discovered. >> i went to his place monday. he stayed with me sunday. >> ok, but monday, you went down to his place to watch the game? >> yes. yeah. >> reporter: but then, she said, the night got strange. out of the blue, eric said he

>> it's like, hey, whatever floats your boat. >> reporter: but she told him that she wasn't interested. she did agree to ride with eric so he could buy weed at a nearby apartment complex. >> i didn't know what was happening. he's never, ever done anything like that around me. >> reporter: they drove up to this building. almost immediately, katrina said the pot dealer jumped into the back seat. >> and it was real quick. i mean, the light was on, the whole deal, whatever they did. and the guy got out. light could even go out in the because i'm thinking, if you're going to do something like this, turn the light out. somebody might see me. i don't want to be identified in >> what'd he look like? >> he was bald, and he had a -- skinny guy, scruffy beard. on. i wasn't trying to look at him directly. i'm not trying to look like i want to know who you are. >> reporter: after driving back to their building, eric and katrina spent the rest of the night watching the basketball

on each other. >> excuse me, if this is too much information, but we had sex for a while, and i went to sleep. >> reporter: a little later, she told the detectives, she was woken up by the sound of eric talking omeone outside the bedroom through a crack in the door. katrina thought she could make out a face. and the man looked familiar. >> she believed the guy to be the drug dealer. >> reporter: the same guy she'd met earlier? >> yes. >> reporter: this was only hours before eric was murdered in his bed. detective ruvin now had another major suspect. >> so we concentrated on the drug dealer. >> reporter: this would prove to be a critical moment in the case, but not for the reasons you think. coming up -- police strike gold maybe in the drug dealer's apartment. >> same kind of gun. >> but struck out with katrina. >> she flat-out refused to give

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detective dimitry ruvin has worked a lot of homicides. but the death of eric somuah angered him more than most. >> you know, he was just sleeping. to kill somebody while they're sleeping is just -- it's horrible. >> reporter: eric's sisters were grateful to have someone as committed as ruvin working their brother's case. >> he is a phenomenal investigator. >> reporter: and now just days after eric was murdered, it looked as if detective ruvin resolution. one of eric's lovers, katrina ben, handed the investigators a >> it didn't make sense to me. because i was thinking, why is he here? >> reporter: katrina told them

how uneasy she felt with the dealer in the apartment. >> it was just a little uncomfortable. he just seemed a little weird. >> reporter: so at just around 5:00 a.m., katrina said she got out of there. >> she said the guy then just came up to her as she was leaving and basically pushed her out with the door. >> reporter: based on katrina's account, the police believed eric was killed sometime in the early morning hours of june 5th. ruvin brought in the dealer for questioning, a man named william woodfork. >> and he was like, i have no idea who that is. never met him before. >> reporter: did you believe him? >> no. i knew eric called him. and katrina's story tied him to eric. >> reporter: ruvin hammered away at woodfork for hours finally getting him to admit he sold eric marijuana the night of the murder. but the dealer balked when ruvin asked why he later went over to eric's. >> and he was like, what are you talking about? he was so adamant about not even

knowing where eric lives. you know, "i'm a weed dealer. i'm not a deliveryman. i don't deliver. people come to me." >> reporter: detective ruvin wasn't about to just take a drug dealer at his word. >> so we end up getting a search warrant for his place. and be recovered a safe from his apartment. and inside the safe was a .380 handgun. it was just like, did he lie? is this our murder weapon? >> reporter: that's the same kind of gun that killed eric. >> it's the same kind of gun. >> reporter: the gun was sent to the firearms lab as ruvin checked to see if he could prove william woodfork was in eric's apartment. but woodfork's dna and fingerprints weren't on the door or anywhere else. you look at the security tape? is he on there anywhere? >> he was never on the security tapes. >> reporter: then the tests came back on the dealer's .380. >> it was not the gun that killed eric. it was the same caliber, but the ammunition was different. so it was just one big coincidence. >> reporter: now eric's dealer

wasn't looking as good for the murder. not only was the gun not a match, ruvin was convinced that the dealer was never at eric's apartment. as for denise, the woman who had been eric's girlfriend, investigators interviewed her three times. she was cooperative and allowed them to look at her phone. >> her phone records put her at home the night of the murder. >> reporter: so they eliminated denise as a suspect. and again, ruvin started from scratch. >> you don't just come in to somebody's apartment and murder them while they're sleeping and expect to get away with it. and i felt like this was my job to find the killer. and i felt like i wasn't doing my job. >> reporter: the detective circled back to the person who pointed them towards the pot dealer in the first place -- katrina ben. the woman who'd been so surprised and distraught by her lover's death. now the cops wondered if she had deliberately misdirected them.

back for another chat. >> did you think he was the one? >> eric? did i think he was the one for me? actually, no. but he was trying to convince me that he was the one. >> reporter: just days before katrina had spoken of eric lovingly, but no longer. >> i knew he was a ladies' man. i'm not stupid. >> at some point i asked her to give us her phone because i knew she exchanged messages. and she just flat-out refused to give us her phone. >> reporter: well, that has to make you sort of sit up and take notice. >> yeah, it was a little odd. but at the same time if it was somebody -- my significant other that was murdered, i think i would do anything to help the police. >> reporter: and she wouldn't do it? >> no. >> reporter: katrina's abrupt change in behavior was strange, even alarming, to the detectives. but all they could do was say their good-byes as katrina

baltimore. >> at this point there was enough weird behavior from katrina ben. we had nothing solid. nothing really incriminating, but it was just something not being right there. >> reporter: the cops had a nagging feeling katrina ben was lying. that pot dealer wasn't in the apartment the night eric was murdered, but katrina was and suddenly she looked suspicious. but suspicions don't make a case. and right now someone was getting away with murder. coming up -- a damaged gun helps a determined detective shoot a bull's-eye. >> it was recovered the day after we found eric's body. and i was like let's just test

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case. >> reporter: unfortunately, what wasn't next to eric's photo on ruvin's desk was any hard evidence against katrina ben, the woman ruvin thought knew more than she was telling about eric's murder. he decided to take yet another crack at his suspect, and along with another detective, ruvin paid katrina a visit up in baltimore. >> for the most part, her story remained the same. >> reporter: but katrina was also on guard and defensive. >> don't go there with me. >> don't go where? >> no, i feel like you're trying to be sarcastic. >> reporter: instead of focusing on the detectives' tone, katrina should have paid more attention to their clothing. the detective secretly had a tape recorder in his pocket. >> and that's when i asked her about owning any guns. did you own a gun? >> no. >> have you ever fired a gun? >> no! >> reportermed with a warrant, ruvin searched katrina's apartment but did not find a gun.

he seized her phone and computer, but cops didn't find anything incriminating. there was no gun registered to her anywhere? >> no. >> reporter: and no sign that she'd ever owned one at any point in her life. >> that's correct. >> reporter: ruvin kept going. >> i subpoenaed her bank records and credit card records. just to see if she purchased any ammunition somewhere. >> reporter: but you didn't find it? >> no. >> reporter: ruvin didn't stop there. he kept looking everywhere. he even went all the way to katrina's home town in mississippi, where he learned something interesting. >> i talked to her dad, who said that he had guns, multiple guns in the house and that katrina had shotguns before. so we knew she lied. >> reporter: but that is no criminal offense. still, ruvin was certain he could eventually find something concrete, and he kept looking. weeks passed. then months. >> i think that's probably the toughest thing about this job is

if it goes unsolved for a while -- >> reporter: you feel like you're letting the family down. >> right, exactly. and especially families that do stay in contact with you. >> reporter: eric's family was eager for answers. they were not shy about letting ruvin know that. >> he gets probably daily phone calls from each one of us, and he was so patient in just explaining -- >> reporter: detective ruvin never said to you, hey, maybe like one of you could call me and tell the other people? >> no. >> never. >> and you look at your phone and you're like, you don't even want to answer them because you have no news. it's the same that it was last week. we think we know who did it, but we can't prove it right now. >> reporter: may 2013. the one-year anniversary of eric's murder approached. and frankly, the investigation had come to a standstill. ruvin wasn't just angry. he was frustrated. he needed to make something happen.

had killed eric, and he knew a lot of handguns just like it were already in police custody all across the d.c. area. he decided to examine all of them. it was an immense task. he began in montgomery county. >> so i decided to look at all .380s which had been recovered in the past year. >> reporter: which was about how many? >> it was about 60 guns. >> reporter: ruvin combed through the records for each of those guns, most seized by cops in traffic stops or drug busts, but none matched up. until ruvin read the second to last file. it was handgun number 59 out of 60. it was a gun turned in by a tourist from montana who had spotted it lying by the side of the beltway, d.c.'s most traveled road. the only reason the man saw it was because he was parked in d.c.'s famous bumper to bumper traffic. >> it was recovered the day after we found eric's body. it was a short distance away

and i was like, let's just test this gun. this gun makes sense. >> reporter: this seems like succeeding against unbelievable odds. >> one in a million. >> reporter: the gun was a mess, missing most of its components, and it looked as it might have been run over after it hit the pavement. but the barrel -- intact. using spare parts, the police firearms lab reassembled the weapon and test-fired it. the result -- a close match to the bullet that killed eric somuah. and on the gun, a serial number. from it, ruvin learned something else. where was it originally sold? >> it was sold at a pawn shop in columbia, mississippi. >> reporter: why was that a big deal? because that little pawn shop was just a few miles down the road from silver creek, mississippi, which was the hometown of katrina ben.

ruvin just couldn't buy that as a coincidence. so he took another trip down to mississippi. this time to track down the gun's original owner, which was harder than it might sound. >> this gun had multiple, multiple owners. it would take me 30 minutes just to persuade somebody to talk to me. >> reporter: why? because in mississippi you sound like a stranger? that's so weird. >> possibly sound like a stranger. also, nobody wants to talk about guns. they always think that i'm there to get them in trouble. >> reporter: it was a lot of shoe leather, and ruvin still didn't have a solid ling to katrina. >> it would take some persuading from me to even have people talk to me. >> reporter: but slowly the persuasion paid off. >> and each would tell us, yeah, i had it for a year. and then i pawned it at this pawn shop. >> reporter: after interviewing six former owners of the gun, ruvin arrived at a pawn shop that bought and sold it sometime around 2003. >> so the owner, he was like, we keep our records in diaper boxes

in the back of the shed. and the rats were eating on them. so we decided to just send them to the atf. >> reporter: ruvin offered to come look through those diaper boxes. the response from the atf? thanks, but no thanks. >> the atf agent was just saying, just let us take care of it. so we left mississippi really with nothing. >> reporter: ruvin returned to maryland, wondering if he'd hit another dead-end. he wondered for about a week. it was late june, now more than a year since eric was murdered, when an atf agent called back. >> we found these diaper boxes. we found these records, and we're faxing a receipt. so i was waiting by the fax machine. the fax came through. i looked at the name, and it was katrina ben. she was the last purchaser of that handgun. >> reporter: and you've got her. >> oh, yeah. it was pretty incredible. i was literally jumping up and down. >> reporter: now he just had to

you decide. >> and if i was going to do something like this, it would be -- it wouldn't be like this. it wouldn't be stupid. coming up -- was katrina ben a monday night girl? >> a girl who you do not take out, you do not show off and you do not introduce to your friends. she had her purposes.

murder? eric somuah had been dead

murder. but his family, bound together by grief and faith, felt a kind of serenity. >> i believe that there were certain people that were destined or ordained, i would say, to work this case. detective ruvin, outside of his normal business hours, was very determined. and he persevered beyond what a normal detective would do. >> reporter: the family didn't know it yet, but that perseverance was a aut to be rewarded. detective ruvin had an arrest warrant for katrina ben. she was living back in mississippi, which is where the cuffs went on to her wrists. >> you have the right now and at any time to remain silent. >> reporter: but katrina ben did not remain silent. not at all. >> and if i was going to do something like this, it would be -- it wouldn't be like this. it wouldn't be stupid, you know. >> how would it be?

>> i think it would be planned out. >> reporter: ruvin had dropped presented to katrina. >> so you're still saying you didn't kill ericic >> of course not. >> okay. did you -- do you own a firearm? >> yes. >> okay, what kind of firearm do >> a .380. >> reporter: remember, katrina had told policicshe didn't own a gun, hadn't evev fired one. >> why didn't you tell us that last time? >> because you never asked if -- i didn't kill anyone, so there's no need for me to say i have a gun. i mean, you never asked. you asked me, have you ever held a gun. have you ever fired a gun. >> reporter: it was simple, they told her. she murdered eric. >> it was your gun that killed him. that's a scientific fact. >> reporter: the question was why. >> there has to be a reason.

there has to be a reason. and if there isn't a reason, then you're going to go down, i'm telling you, as the most cold-blooded person that we've spoken with because you're so good. it's going to look horriblbl it's going to be bad. >> i'm just going to have my day in court. >> i'm telling you -- >> reporter: but katrina wouldn't give it up and asked for a lawyer. the detectives put her in lockup and ruvin stepped outside to call eric's family. >> i was just like, you know, thank you, god. they're going to get this woman. >> reporter: getting a conviction was ultimately the responsibility of montgomery county state's attorney john mccarthy. even with gun, which gets you an arrest and into a courtroom, this was pretty far from an ideal case. >> absolutely. to sell this to o jury when you are basically saying that she felt so betrayed after a three-week relationship that she was driven to murder, that's a little bit of a tough sell. >> reporter: mccarthy assigned

attorney jessica zarrella. at stroo -- at trial she gave katrina a nickname that few would envy. why did you refer to katrina as the monday night girl? >> it was used in the context of a girl who you do not take out, you do not show off and you do not introduce to your friends. she has her purposes, but those purposes are relegated to monday nights and not the more high-profile saturday and friday nights. >> reporter: this was the prosecution theory. katrina learned, maybe from eric's phone, that she was far from the only woman in eric's life. jealousy and anger did the rest, and katrina shot eririwhile he slept. >uman emotion fuels m mt homicicis. >> reporter: what i keep thinking of is sort of "fatal attraction." an insignificant relationship on one side and a very significant relationship you ask the other person. >> obviously, he made a misjudgment when he became intimately involved with her. and the sense of betrayal that e felt is what fueled this homicide. >> reporter: and, said

killed eric, she quickly ditched the gun and began playing the part of the concerned lover. but she couldn't keep her story straight. >> lies upup lies upon lies to bury the truth and that ultimate truth in this case was that gun. >> reporter: the crux of katrina's defense was that she had no reason to kill eric because she just wasn't that into him. >> eric was a great guy, but i wasn't even trying to be with eric like that andndto be honest, he would tell me he was in love with me, i never believed him. >> reporter: what's wrong with the argument that, you know, this was a woman who discovered there were other women in his life and she got incredibly jealous and angry and that tipped her over and she killed him. >> it just doesn't work for ms. ben. >> reporter: karl-henri gauvin was one of katrina's lawyers. >> we have to look at the timing in which these two parties were intimate with one another, a matter of weeks. and so to say that the relationship was at such a strong level that she would become jealous or irate to the point where she would murder

somebody doesn't resonate with the time in which they were together. >> reporter: as for that gun, katrina's attorneys argued that the traveling nurse had long since lolo track of it. they said someononcould have stolen the gun alolo the way and used it on eric. >> reporter: she shifts from one residence to another from state to state because of her profession. she may have left the gun -- she was unaware, rather, of where the gun may have been. >> reporter: jurors were not swayed. it took them just six hours to find katrina guilty of murder in the first degree. >> there's no doubt in my mind that had she not been convicted of this crime, katrina ben was just as likely to encounter someone else who disrespected her in the same way that she felt eric did and -- >> reporter: with the same result. >> visit that ultimate consequence which is take his life. >> reporter: the real jaw dropper came at sentencing when

katrina addressed the courtroom. >> she stood up as if she was giving a eulogy ofofy brother. telling us i'm sorry for your ss and all this stufuf it was like a slap in the face. >> she was talking about the murders as though she wasn't even there. you killed this person. you're the reason why we're here. it was just unbelievable. >> reporter: the judge s stenced katrina ben to life plusus 20 years. >> justice has been served today, and what you have sown into the life of our dear brother, cousin, nephew, friend, you will reap bountifully with life in prison. >> reporter: n n three years after saying goodbye to eric, his large loving family still feels the pain of that loss. >> we do remember eric every day. all the good times we had. it's unfortunate that we have to think about the day that he was

to the day that we actually closed the casket. >> reporter: what they want to do is warn other families to watch out for the other katrina bens in the world. > pray and continue to pray that, even in doing this, that it will bring awareness to other people out there about certain types of people and just being very cautious and being aware. >> reporter: so the lesson is be careful who you get close to? >> be very careful. very aware. very important. >> that's all for this edition ive. >> so you'll say that but you won't say -- he doesn't think paul ryan is. he doesn't like his stance on the bt limit and tarp. >> i have said consistently throughout that the question of house leadership the question of house republican conference. >> i want to move to foreign policy, afghanistan decision by the president. in favor of it? >> well, listen, it's a recognition that what the president has been saying for years, that al qaeda is decimated, was never true.

that it was political spin. the reality is we live in an incredibly dangerous world and sadly the failures of the obama/clinton foreign policy have made the dangers great. >> if you become president you'll keep this policy in place of keeping those troops in afghanistan? >> it will depend on the mission. i don't believe we should be engaged in nation building. i don't believe we should be trying to transform foreign countries into democratic utopias, trying to turn iraq into switzerland. but i do think it is thth job of ourur military toto protectctthis country. to hunt down and kill jihadists who would murder us. >> syria. priority, assad out of power or isis? >> isis, isis, isis. >> so basically table the assad discussion? >> look, we have no businene sticking our n ne inhat civil war. a there are a lot of politicians, including hillary clinton on the left and including quite a few of the republicans running for president on the right, who want us to get into the middle of that civil war.

>> so you're no on the no-fly zones, none of that stuff? stick to just isis? would you woo with the russians? if they are helping with isis, would you help? >> of course we shouldn't partner with the russians. look, this is a great example of the utter failure of the obama/clinton foreign policy. this void in power has let putin step in there. there are a coupleeundred cubansnsright now a major cuban general fighting in the syrian civil war. you've got iran, you've got general suleimanny in bed with the russians so you now have russia, cuba and iran all arm in arm and anyone who believes russia is fighting aainst terrorism, i've got to a bridge to sell them. >> they're propping up assad but you said you're okay with that. >> i don't think we should prop up assad, either. but here's the problem. you have people who view foreign policy -- youuook at some of the republilin, for example, w w supported hillary clinton's disastrous libya policy. toppling qaddafi? qaddafi was a bad guy but you

libya is an absolute chaos and war zone where jihadists are battling back and forth and here's, chuck, the way we should answer -- >> would the middle east be more stable todayy if you had the strong men? >> of course it would. of course it would. >> qaddafi, saddam, assad? if they're strong men, they keep stability? >> it wasn't even close that libya under qaddafi was better for u.s. interests than the chaos now than that is allowiwi hadist to gain strength. >> what about iraq under saddam? >> it wasn't even close. >> do you think iraq would be more stable today under a strongman like saddam? >> based on what we know now should we have gone into iraq? of course not. it was based on the belief they had weapons of mass destruction at they would use against us. . >> you u re a believer in using the debt limit for leverage. what do you want republican leadership to do with the debt limit? >> what i'd like to see on the democrat limit is republican leaders fight for something. for pete's sakes, anything. are there a lot of reports right now that johnhn boehnererefore he steps down a a speaker intends to

cut a deal with nancy pelosi to raise the debt ceiling and to fund all of obama's agenda. >> and what would what will you? >> for the next year and a half he's got the votes. >> isn't that how democracy works? he's got the vovos? i meaea this is how i i works. >> you're right. and if he does it he will be the most effective democratic leader in modern times. >> there's a lot more to my interview with ted cruz. you can see the complete interview on our web site, "meet the press" nbc.com. coming up, not one but two republicans have said the benghazi committee hearing was inspired to hurt hillary it's one of the most amazing things we build and it doesn't even fly. we build it in classrooms and exhibit halls, mentoring tomorrow's innovators. we build it raising roofs, preserving habitats and serving america's veterans. every day, thousands of boeing volunteers help

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we are back. however much hillary clinton may have helped herselflft tuesday's debate, the main event this month will be her appearance on capitol hill befe the hose bebghazi committee this thursday. both sides are attempting to work the refs ahead of time. here's part of an online video the clinton campaign released in an attempt to discredit the committee. >> and here's an excerpt of a highly controversy anti-clinton ad that ran during the first democratic presidential debate. >> dear hillary y clinton, i'd

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welcome back. with the possible exception of the debates, no moment of the campaign has been more highly anticipated than this thursday when hillary clinton testifies before the house select benghazi committee. and make no mistake -- one way or the other this is about the campaign. republicans say they want to get to the bottom of the attacks in benghazi in 2012 on that september 11th day when four americans were killed. democrats say the committee is a partisan effort designed to discredit clinton by focusing just on her e-mails. either way, it could be a turning point in the race for 2016. >> i will do my best to answer their questions, but i don't really foe what their objective is right now. >> hillary clinton is trading one stage for another. >> any reaction to the benghazi ads?

>> not since president gerald ford defended his pardon of f richard nixon -- >> the purpose w w to change our national focus. >> -- has an active presidential candidate had so much on the ne in an appearance fore congress. but clinton can now quote house republicans when she tries to argue that questions about her handling of the 2012 benghazi attack that left four americans dead arereow nothing more than a political witch-hunt. >> this whole effort was set up for political partisan purposes. we now know to politically in a partisan way go after me. basically an arm of the republican national committee. a partisan arm of f e republican national committee. >> i iwas house majority leader kevin mccarthy who gave clinton her first assist last month. >> everybody thought hillary clinton was unbeatable, right? but we put together a benghazi special committee, a select committee. what are her numbers today? her numbers are dropping. >> this week an assist from

>> this may not be politically correct, but i think there is a big part of this investigation that was designed to go after peopop and an individual, hillary clinton. >> the committee's republican chairman trey gowdy tried to clean up this mess with a 279-word statement saying that "commentators and sometimes even members of your own conference offer thoughts on matters on which they are not f filiar." >> if they don't focus on the words that people who are not on the committee use, focus on the actions of those of us who have been on the committee. >> on top of all that, a former republican committee staffer, air force reserve major bradley politska is adding fuel to the fire, claiming he was fired after the octoberive turned to hillary clinton. >> i was trying to conduct a thorough non-partisan investigation. >> a statement from the committee says those are false and he was terminated for cause.

now the committee, which house speaker john boehn never wanted -- >> i see no reason to break up the work that's been done and take months and months and months to create some select committee. >> -- but agreed to under duress to pacify conservatives is itself under scrutiny. i'm joined now by two members of the committee, republican mike pompeo of kansas, republican and democrat adam schiff. congressman pompeo, this has been a tough ten days for the credibility of yououcommittee anks to the mccarthy statements and hanna statements. do you feel as if the committee's credibility is under investigation? >> chuck, this isn't about the committee, this is about the american people. we've been working since may of 2014 to get them the answers. there ararfour americans that t were killed. our first ambassador murdered since 1979. we're going to -- this week we'll speak with former secretary clinton, we've conducted dozens and dozens of interviews. we will ask her the same kind of fact-centric questions we've asked other witnesses. we have an obligation to hold

we reduce the risk that something like this could ever possibly happen again. >> one of the questions i have is what's taking so long? i say this because the benghazi committee is longer than watergate, longer than iran-contra, other events. i thininwe have a whole thininon screen here about how many different select committees took less time,ncluding the warren commission. why is this taking so long? >> you mentioned watergate. mr. schiff actually compared this committee to watergate in a "new york times" op-ed. but this is worse in some ways. right? secretary clinton tried to hide every one of her e-mails, she e destroyed d ,000 of them, and now we have an fbi investigation of those very e-mails. what's taken us so long is that the democrats on the committee and this administration have played hide the ball and have denied us records the american people deserve and that our committee needs to complete our investigation. we would have bebe happy to move more quickly, but we'v'vmet with struction all along the way. >> before i get to congressman schiff, one more question for you. you talk about all the different

why haven't you called the following witnesses: general carter hamm, samantha power in the white house now and an ambassador to the u.n. you could haha called her. the former cia director at the time, general petraeus, he hasn't been called. former defense secretary leon panetta wasn't called. why haven't these people been called before your committee if this is about benghazi? they were all there at the time. >> chuck, we're not done. you mamathink this investigation ends on thursday, but let me asre you that it does not. we began in may and we are going to ctinue. this on thursday is just one more step along the way. we may well call many of the folks that you identified there. we still have many witness, many documents that we haven't seen. as recently as last thursday we received christopher steven's e-mails. how on earth could other committees have worked effectively when they didn't even have those e-mails? we don't have them. no thanks to the democrats on the committee who opposed us all along the way. >> congressman schiff, when you joined the committee you sai

you wereilling to look at this in the big picture. you have accused the republicans of not take it seriously. it's in your power. if you don't think they're taking it seriously, why haven't you come up with a witness list? why hahan't you decided, youou know what, i don't like what they're doing? if you think the investigation needs to go in a more serious direction, you can do it, and you haven't done it. >> chuck, i have and i've tried. in fact, the first two hearings this committee had were hearings i proposed to look at the arb recocoendations and how they're implemented. i requested ways we coululspeed up document production which were rejected. we requested witnesses to come before the comttee and you know what they did? they interviewed these witnesses without telling us because when they did interview the witnesses they didn't corroborate the republican conspiracy theories. the reasons, t tanswer your question, chuck, about why we haven't brought in the defense secretary as they said they would, why we haven't brought in the cia director or any of these witnesses for a hearing is because they're not running for president. when richard hanna -- >> couldn't you have asked for this? don't you have power? >> we could ask fofoit.

no, we don't. we don't. >> and you can't bring these people in? you can't invite them yourself? >> we can't set up a hearing, we can't issue a subpoena. we can't even vote on a subpoena. chuck, we asked the republicans at the beginning, let's establish rules for the committee. let's establish rules so we can vote on subpoenas. you can have the majority vovo, whatever. they wouldn't even establish rules. why? they want to run this the way they want it. they want to be able to go after secretary clinton. >> but hang on, isn't -- aren't they justified in the fact that if it wasn't for the benghazi committee we would haven't known about this private server. we would haven't known aboutut these e-mails, and it does look like somebody is at least trying to make it harder to get informatio ish't that the point?6 >> no, the point is what do we know about benghazi that we didn't know when this investigation started? what can we tellllhe families? what canane tell the american pepele about these core conspiracy allegations, that there was a standdown order or that there was a gun running or that the secretary interfered

with security and the fact is, chuck, after 17 months, $4.5 million, we have nothing n n to tell the families. apart from that there was a private e-mail sver. that doesn't tell us anything about benghazi. and let me say this, too, when richard hanna talks about what the republican conference views this investigation, he can speak to the view of the conference, but when kevin mccarthy, who's part of the leadershsh, talks out the motivation to go after clinton, he is part of the leadership, he is in the room when the committee is formed. and finally, it's not just what these people outside the committee are saying. but when a republican whistle-blower is saying this is how they're executing the strategy to gogofter clinton and we see that exececion when these hearings you mentioned with the defense secretary, when the cia director, with samantha powers, they're all canceled, when the only hearing we have is with secretary clinton, it shows the committee is doing exactly what these republicans ararsaying. >> i'm sorry. you want to chime in, go ahead and then ron fournier wants to ask a question. >> facts matter. what mr. schiff said is false. the democrats haven't asked for

a single witness. i've ask him to name the witness that he wrote us a letter and ask for that witness. nonoa single interview has been conducted without democrats or democrat staff participating. >> that's just not true, mikik that's just not true. >> the fbi will sort out the server. we'll see if she violated the espionage act. our task is to solve the riddle of the four americans killed. >> ron. >> congressman pompeo, your party y omised to run a non-partisan non-witch-hunt campaign. that's been proven to be false. congressman schiff, your party candidate promised us what she did with her e-mails was above board and didn't jeopardize or potentially compromise u.s. secrets. we know that is false. what is either party going to try to do to restoto some modieum of credibility to a system that should be based on trust? both of you have been lying to us. >> with reality to the committee, it's too late. there's too o ch water under the bridge. >> no, in respect to secretary clinton and in your party when are you need to stop pretending what she did was above board and when are you going to stop pretending she didn't --

>> the secretary has been the first to admit the use of a private server was a mistake. >> she says it was above board, board. you think it's violated policy? >> that is the job of the go after her and the democratic party committee, they can go after jeb bush for his use of a that's not our job. >> you think her e-mail server violated federal policy? yes or no? >> i ihink what she did wawa lawful at the time and a mistake. >> was it against federal rules. itlearly was to anybody reading the rules. was it to you? >> the rules allowed her to use a private server as long as she preserved her e-mails, which she did. was it desirable? no. it wasn't. i think she's recognized that. >> what about the witch-hunt? you promised it would not be a a partisan committee, but your party is admitting it was partisan. >> i couldn't disagree with you more. i think folks will see that on thursday, and i think they'll see in the the final report as well. they'll see chairman gowdy and our committee has run a fact-centric effort to do the mission, to hold someone accountable for whatatappened -- >> congressman, how long for this final report?

of 2016? is it going to be after the election? >> that's a great question, andrea. maybe mr. schiff can answer that for you. we'll complete our task -- >> let me just follow up -- >> the reason there's no question is that we don't know what we're lookiki for. we can't put an end date on it because we don't know what this committee is supposed to look for. apart from damaging hillary clinton, it has no reason for existence. >> if the reason for existence is to find out did hillary clinton -- did hillary clilion make a grievous error in not following up security complaints, how could she tell the various investigating committees that that was below her, that it never reached her that could be a legitimate reason. but why, then, do you call sid blumenthal and houmamabedin and all of these other personal aides s d non-aides? why have you focused so much on e-mails and not on the central question of why was the security failure at that consulate? >> well, we have focused on the central failure. we have focused on the security issues, and you'll see lots of questions about that o o thursdayay

issue. we see now the former secretary relied on mr. blumenthal for most of her intelligence. >> that is factually not correct. >> that is correct. most of her intelligence? >> ms. mitchell, look at the e-mails trails. you will see. that is factuall\ not correct. i'm as tough on this issue as anyone. >> alex, quickly. >> since this is about benghazi and four lives that were lost under hillary clinton's watch, what should she have done to prevent the loss of those four lives? what should she have done before and when they actually were threatened? should she have done more? >> let me talk to before. the arb fromomanzania made it very clear that the secretary of state was supposed to personally review security at high-threat areas. that is not hand it down to a deputy or an undersecretary or that arb in the late 1990s said the secretary of state, himself

or herself, was supposed to take