♪ welcome back to "face the nation." we want to continue our conversation now with oklahoma republican congressman tom cole. congressman, before the break we've been talking about this vote the house had yesterday to approve the $95 billion package.

there was a decision here for speaker johnson that was an important one. he put his job on the line as we know, there's this movement among house conservatives led by marjorie taylor greene, to oust him from power because of this bill. do you think this is a threat for his leadership? >> i take everything seriously, but i don't. i think it's a relatively small number of republican members, just as in mccarthy's case, eight people. >> exactly. >> but i don't think there's unified democratic support. there was unified democratic support to remove the speaker. i think both sides have seen how dangerous this is, how irresponsible it is, and quite frankly, i think it's unlikely that democrats who supported ukraine -- not as many supported israel as we would have liked, did support ukraine, unlikely to remove the speaker over that.

to be fair, they removed mccarthy after he did what he asked them to do keep the government funded. i don't think that's going to happen in this case. but if somebody wants to do it it's within the rules and they can take their shot. >> you're saying that democrats you trust would protect speaker johnson from being ousted because they wouldn't vote -- >> i don't think you would lose very many republicans. we didn't lose very many republicans in mccarthy. doesn't take many democrats to not vote or oppose it. i don't think we would lose the same number of republicans that we lost with kevin mccarthy. even people that -- >> you wouldn't get to eight republicans. they've gotten to three. >> there's a lot of people that like this speaker, respect this speaker, even when they disagree with him. they know he's honest, a straight shooter. and they've had a taste of what it's like to go without a speaker for three weeks. i don't think they want that again and i don't think they want it close to an election. >> former speaker gingrich says the demons that matt gaetz unleashed going after kevin mccarthy are out there. you can't govern by shooting yourself in the head every day.

how does speaker johnson get anything done? >> he's gotten a lot done. every appropriation bill passed. fisa through, this aid -- >> he has to re lie on democratic votes which he's being faulted for by members of his party. >> every appropriations bill is bipartisan at the end of the day. they just work that way. most of these -- something like fisa ought to be bipartisan. i actually think he's, you know, empowered the center and marginalized the extremes on each side. is there some risk to that? sure. he's got an lot done. people admire him, genuinely like him, all respect him. every single republican voted for him. i don't think that any other person could have done that at the time, other than mike johnson. so the reservoir of goodwill is enormous. i think he's much stronger than the people seem to think. and i think he's demonstrated that by what he's passed. >> first of all, do you think republicans after november will

have the majority? >> i do. >> he could be re-elected? >> i do. i think we're likely to win the presidency. i used to do politics for a living, i guess i still do. the reality is the person who wins a presidency will probably take the house. it's close enough that makes a difference. i think we'll win. i think we will have the house. >> congressman, good to have you here. >> great privilege. thank you. >> in person. we'll be right back. (luke) so... i hear some of you are concerned about the fact that i'm taking over the company. well, rest assured, company's in great hands.

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overnight israeli defense forces launched a deadly series of air strikes on the city of rafah in southern gaza. but there's been an uptick of violence in the west bank. debora patta reports. >> reporter: every ten minutes a child is killed in gaza says the united nations. that's nearly 15,000 children in almost 7 months. paramedics rush to save the injured after another israeli air strike in rafah. for this little girl, it was too

late. her grief-stricken father is inconsolable, and he is not alone. in this room there are only the bodies of children. overnight, at least ten more names added to that endless list of horror, the youngest just 2 years old. our cbs news team in gaza reports that among the dead was a pregnant woman. miraculously doctors saved her baby girl. here, israel defense force soldiers prepare for a mission. but this is not in gaza. it's idf footage of a two-day operation in the west bank city where they say they have been rooting out militants. at least 14 palestinians were killed. the idf pulled out last night leaving this destruction in its wake. it's on a scale residents say they've never seen before. this morning, they were mopping

up the damage. israeli soldiers used bulldozers to smash through the area, destroying streets, buildings and infrastructure. the west bank has reached a boiling point. nearly 500,000 palestinians have been killed since october 7th and there are ongoing clashes with israeli settlers which escalated after a 14-year-old settler was found dead over a week ago. the u.s. has imposed new sanctions on west bank settlers and a u.s. official told cbs news since 2022, it's been investigating an idf unit of ultra orthodox soldiers accused of human rights atrocities with an announcement expected this week. the unit is stationed here in the west bank. media reports suggesting it could be blacklisted from receiving u.s. military aid prompted an angry outburst from prime minister benjamin netanyahu, who said any sanctions imposed on the idf

would be a moral low when it is fighting in gaza. >> that was our deborah patta. we're joined by "new york times" white house and national security correspondent david sanger. his latest book "new cold wars" is out now. david, good to see you again. >> great to be with you, margaret. >> where do we begin? the world truly is on fire. and one of the things i like about your book you write, going all the way back to listening to the nixon-kennedy debates, and hearing those candidates hash out america's role in the world, and geostrategy. and this election we don't even know if the candidates will have a debate. meanwhile, the world is on fire. how do the american -- members of the american public need to think about the global competition the united states is in the middle of? >> well, it's a very different competition than what we had in the cold war. you know, those nixon-kennedy

debates were at the height of the moment of a u.s. contest against the soviet union, which was terrifying and nuclear. but there was a simplicity about it. there was a predictability about it. we understood who controlled their nuclear weapons. we understood who controlled ours and knew who to call. the new cold wars are different. we have russia and china coming together in a periodic partnership. i wouldn't say it's a full alliance. we have other players like iran and north korea, as you were discussing with earlier guests, supplying them, becoming sort of what the iranians call an axis of resistance to the u.s. it is a far more volatile, i think far more dangerous period, than we had even then. yet, as you point out, our ability to discuss it as a nation, has somewhat degraded.

you watch those kennedy-nixon debates. put aside who was sweating and who looked young and vigorous, it was a sophisticated argument, largely about nuclear deterrents. i'm afraid we're not having that incredibly sophisticated argument today more than 60 years later. but the vote yesterday, which you've been discussing about ukraine, at the end of the day, turned out to be a fairly overwhelming vote in favor of the u.s. pushing against the russians in ukraine and, perhaps, beyond. >> certainly overwhelmingly yes for democrats. a bit split for republicans. >> a majority of republicans voted against, but it passed comfortably. >> it did. and i -- it is just -- i think it's an interesting point you make, though, in sort of changing how we think about competition with russia and china. we learned friday that u.s. is likely to lose a significant

counterterrorism base in the african country of niger because the government demanded troops withdraw. i think americans didn't know there was 1,000 troops there working in the counterterrorism space. russia is moving in. >> that's right. >> china is getting and carving out a large amount of influence in africa. what are the fronts in the new cold war? >> there are a couple ones. you point out one in africa, one china has been wiring up with huawei equipment and so forth. we are concerned, rightly so, that u.s. in not having a competitor straight on to put in 5g equipment may be losing the opportunity to help bind the continent together. in the book, i take you to the solomon islands a place the u.s. fought for in world war ii, and scored a big victory, but now

has basically moved over into china's camp. there's still some contest under way. but to answer your question more broadly, if you believe that there is something of a new iron curtain coming down, a place where you're going to divide the u.s., the nato nations, against china, russia, iran, others, it's somewhere in that border land between ukraine and russia. and that's why the bill that went through congress was so important. i don't know if it's enough to turn the tide. the ukrainians may have lost so much time and ammunition here it may be too late. had it not passed, that was pretty much by the judgment of the cia director, bill burns, and others, going to be the end of the contest. the russians almost certainly would have surged forward. >> and china has made clear they have a stake in russia winning in ukraine? it is -- >> that's right. >> competition. >> if we had those debates again, who knows if we will, the most interesting --

>> or even those interviews. substantial interviews with conversations about national security interests of america. i mean -- >> that's right. >> we should. >> and you know, president biden has been reluctant to have, you know, major sit down interviews, at least with the print organizations. but i think if we did have those interviews, i think one of the big questions is, what is your plan to get in the midst of the russia-china combination? the core of what nixon and kissinger were doing in the early '70s in recognizing china, was to prevent russia and china from coming together. >> you also make this interesting point about the dynamic that's so different given, first of all, they're so economically intertwined the united states and china. and also, the business community and technology and the role it plays in this version of competition. a top u.s. cyber official told you companies, not the u.s. government, have all the insight these days. how do we know when an attack is coming? >> yeah. the book opens with the days

running up to the war in ukraine. and while there was certainly lots of indicators coming from america, satellites and signals intelligence and so forth. in the end, one of the key indicators that the russians were getting ready to roll came from microsoft, whose engineers were noticing that malware that had been placed by the russians on ukrainian government agencies were being activated and sent a notice through their channels, which ultimately went to the white house. at the end of the day, what kept ukraine running was some combination of microsoft and amazon, moving all of their data to the cloud and then elon musk coming in and providing starlink so they could communicate to that cloud. >> incredible. >> something we never saw in the old cold wars. >> it's a fascinating read. it's good to see you in person and we'll have to leave it there. >> thank you. pennsylvania's governor josh shapiro standing by waiting for

us. we'll be right back.

we go now to the democratic governor of pennsylvania josh shapiro.

he joins us this morning from abbington, pennsylvania. governor, thank you for sticking with us. we've been having some transmission technical issues. hopefully we don't get interrupted. i'll get straight to it. >> i look forward to the conversation. >> i'll get straight to it, governor. you have been outspoken against the rising and troubling anti-anti-semitism in this country. the fbi director said federal law enforcement is concerned about lone actors targeting gatherings ahead of the start of passover which starts tomorrow. are there known threats in your state? >> there's not known threats right now, and i can tell you that pennsylvania state police, working in coordination with our federal and local partners, are all over this and will let folks know in communities if there are specific threats. we continue to work closely with law enforcement and community leaders to do everything we can to take down the temperature, to

address the rise in anti-semitism, islamophobia, other forms of hate. there should be no place for that here in pennsylvania. of course pennsylvania founding on the vision of william penn, a place that would be a place of tolerance and welcome and peace, a place where people could come together and practice their faith, whatever their faith is. we have a special relationship with that here in this commonwealth where we respect all, no matter what you look like, where you come from or love or choose to pray to. we will do everything we can to make sure everyone feels protected in this commonwealth. >> there should be no place for it anywhere in america. i know you agree with that. let me get to the politics of the moment. president biden won the state of pennsylvania in 2020 narrowly. he spent a lot of time in your state this past week. we've seen in our polling his approval rating among young voters aged 18 to 29 has dropped 12 points since february, 55% to

43% today. how does the president get that back? >> i think the president gets it back doing exactly what he's doing, showing up, talking about his record, addressing things like climate change, which are incredibly important issues for young voters, along with many others, obviously. making sure that young people feel included in the conversation, not just as a vote, but as part of the governing coalition going forward. young people helped propel me to victory as governor. one of the first things i did was start the first ever next gen engagement commission here in the commonwealth of pennsylvania. a place where young people, quite literally, advise me on policy, meet with me regularly, give me their perspective on what's happening in the community. part of the frustration they oftentimes don't feel heard, their voices and votes are taken advantage of come election time. this is a moment where the young people deserve to be at the

table. and the fact that the president is showing up in these communities and talking about these issues that are going to help young people in the future, i think is a really important step. >> so last weekend, donald trump was campaigning in pennsylvania. here's what he said. >> biden has imposed a savage natural gas export ban that's putting countless pennsylvania jobs at risk. he's risking your lives. he's risking your jobs. but he doesn't care because all he cares about is the green new scam. >> he is speaking to real fear among some of your constituents about president biden's decision to at least temporarily put a pause on new natural gas projects. how do you respond to that? >> look, i've been very clear with the white house and publicly i hope that this pause that they put in place is very quick and then we move forward. here in pennsylvania, our energy

economy has powered this nation, and it has done so over many generations. going forward, i think pennsylvania has an opportunity to be the center of the clean energy economy. thanks to the president, we're the only state in the nation with two regional hydrogen hubs. >> just -- >> thanks to the president, we've been able to work together -- >> sorry. you broke up at the beginning. i think you said you've been clear to the white house you hope this is a short pause. does that mean you agree it is costing your state jobs and money? >> well, i think if the pause goes on for a long time it has the potential to cost us jobs. that's why i want this to be as quick as possible. what i went on to say, though, is, we have an opportunity here in pennsylvania to be the center of the clean energy economy. thanks to president biden, we have two regional hydrogen hubs. thanks to president biden, we are capping methane emissions from abandoned wells. we have billions of dollars of tax credits and other resources

coming from the department of energy to help us through a transition. here in pennsylvania we're showing we can both protect the jobs that exist today and create more energy jobs tomorrow. energy is critical to the future of our commonwealth. listen the bravado and bluster of the former president do nothing to create jobs in pennsylvania. he's got an abysmal track record when it comes to that. president biden has a strong record. and we're going to continue to lead on energy here in pennsylvania. >> you mentioned young voters and how key the issue of climate is to them. the biden administration touts the inflation reduction act, the i.r.a., as a green energy bill. although it wasn't named that. but cbs polling shows half of americans have not heard much or nothing at all about what the administration has done. only 14% say they've heard a lot, two-thirds don't know if their state has gotten federal

funds for climate change projects. this seems a real vulnerability for democrats when it comes to young voters. >> let me be very clear. climate change is real, it is serious and we have to address it. joe biden understand that. donald trump has made fun of climate change and denies its existence. there's a clear contrast in this race because of the federal dollars that have flowed to pennsylvania as i mentioned a moment ago, we are positioned to get two regional hydrogen hubs that will help us combat climate change. we're addressing all kinds of infrastructure needs here in the commonwealth, from repairing roads and bridges, to make sure people are connected to the internet, to making sure families which is a minority community in pittsburgh no longer need to drink water out of the lines that contain lead, thanks to joe biden cleaning that up. so when it comes to

infrastructure investments, when it comes to the kind of investments that are going to help spur on a clean energy economy, president biden has been there. now we have to make that case, and we've got to make sure folks understand that and hear that. that's why you run a campaign and that's why you'll see stark differences when it comes to combatting climate change between the policies of president biden and what donald trump has done in the past and wants to do in the future. >> but the messaging needs work, is what you're saying? >> well, i think the case needs to be made. there's a wonderful track record, there's a wonderful body of work. they need to make that case and i'll be helping make that case alongside the president. >> i want to ask about something that has been really damaging your state and that is drug addiction. pennsylvania has -- i'm sorry, excuse me. the number one public health crisis in pennsylvania according to the state, opioids. the cdc says pennsylvania recently saw the highest number of xylazine related deaths in

the country. what is driving the addiction? >> listen, 13 pennsylvanians die every single day from an opioid overdose. it is unacceptable. here in pennsylvania we're trying to come at it with a multipronged approach. first, we have to understand that drug addiction is a disease, not a crime. now we have to invest? law enforcement and i have. we've increased the number of state troopers by 400 and i'm looking to add another 400. as attorney general, i arrested over 8,000 drug dealers. we're not going soft on those who are peddling poisons in our community. we have to make sure the treatment is available. i led a national coalition that ended up holding drug companies accountable. the very people that brought this crisis into our communities and brought $2 billion back to pennsylvania for treatment. >> i'm sorry. >> this is critical stuff and going to require a multipronged approach.

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