>> announcer: "this week" with george stephanopoulos starts right now. toxic cleanup. >> are you proud of that, sir? >> a month after the ohio train derailment, angry residents lash out. >> please get our people out of here.

>> pressure builds on president biden. >> mr. president, it's past time for you to make the short trip to east palestine. >> senators unveil bipartisan rail safety legislation. >> it's not the sort of thing that's going to cost a lot of money. >> the fallout with sherrod brown and dan sullivan of alaska. long shot bid. >> i as of today am a candidate for the office of president of the united states. >> joe biden's first democratic challenger enters the race as republicans showcase their party's divide. >> if you are tired of losing, put your trust in a new generation. >> people are tired of rhinos and globalists. this is the final battle. >> with the race for 2024 heating up, jon karl speaks with marianne williamson. rick klein breaks down the state of play. plus, analysis from our powerhouse round table. and -- >> should this be a partisan issue, equality for all people? >> certainly there should be nothing partisan about that. >> a century after the equal rights amendment was first introduced, rachel scott reports

on the latest effort to enshrine gender equality in the > good morning, and welcome to "this week." as we come on the air this morning, ohio is dealing with another train derailment. 20 cars of southern norfolk -- of a noh norfolk southern train derailed. pete buttigieg ha been in touch with ohio's governor. a shelter in place has now been lifted and officials say no hazardous spill has occurred. it comes amid a flurry of transit scares and east palestine's handling of the toxic derailment, and multiple serious close calls that have raised questions about aviation safety. ohio's sherrod brown is standing by, but gio benitez starts us off. good morning, gio. >> reporter: george, the second derailment only adds to the growing problems facing norfolk southern. the ceo is going to face congress one month after the

r and demandinh afteth train derailnt in eapaleste,o,il infuriated with the response. >> do i have to wait until i have cancer or my kids are sick or my grandkids are sick before you guys are going to do anything? >> reporter: and the incident still sending shock waves through national politics. just this week ohio governor republican mike dewine calling on president biden to visit. >> look. he should come. there's no doubt about it. the president needs to come. >> biden responding. >> i will be out there at some point. >> reporter: this comes after furious republican criticism of transportation secretary pete buttigieg for not visiting soon enough. florida senator marco rubio tweeting, buttigieg needs to be fired. >> what i have tried to do is balance two things, my desire to be involved and engaged allowing ntsb to really lead. i'll do some thinking about whether i got that balance right.

>> reporter: democrats firing back, blaming congressional republicans for interfering with regulations, saying they've largely regulate itself.ry to - earlier this week, a bipartisan group of six senators introducing new rail safety legislation requiring rail companies to notify state emergency response officials if teals, incsptions, g iss for brking rules and mandate a two-person crew. it would also require that the wheels on trains carrying hazmat must be scanned for heat every 12 miles. the ntsb says an overheated wheel bearing likely caused the accident in east palestine. ohio senator sherrod brown saying in a statement, it shouldn't take a massive railroad disaster for elected officials to put partisanship aside and work together, and after that heated town hall in east palestine -- >> but you know what?

norfolk is a goliath, and we are not match. >> we are sorry. we're very sorry. >> reporter: norfolk southern ceo set to testify before a senate committee next week. this coming in the midst of other transportation concerns, a series of close calls nationwide prompting the faa to launch an air safety review. last week, biden the faa at his confirmation hearing, saying safety is his top priority. >> we cannot think about doing things the old way, and so i think that a fresh perspective is needed. >> and the faa now says it will hold a special safety summit on march 15th in virginia with leaders from the aviation industry to figure out what is broken and how to fix it. meanwhile the epa has ordered norfolk southern to test for toxic dioxins. the company has started removing about 2,000 feet of railroad tracks to get rid of contaminated soil underneath, george.

>> let's hear more from ohio senator sherrod brown. appreciate you coming in. i want to start out. do you have any update on that derailment yesterday? >> yeah. last night i spoke to congressman kerry, governor dewine, the sheriff in clark county. they're pretty satisfied with norfolk southern's response there. i'm not entirely satisfied because i want to know if there is some -- there are some sort of remnants of something that might have been in those cars. those cars are mostly empty, but i want to know if there are any contaminants left that might be in those cars all the way into springfield. this train was over 200 cars, which is 50 more cars that the east palestine train. the railroads got a lot of questions they've got to answer and they haven't done it very well yet as you know. >> let's talk about the situation in east palestine. we heard gio say the epa has now

required them to test for dioxins. that was 27 days after the derailment. are you satisfied with that timeline, and what's the situation on the ground there now? >> people are still concerned. my couple of trips in the last two weeks i've made to east palestine, and the railroad's still not answering all the questions. keep this in mind. this railroad -- this -- norfolk southern has done huge stock buybacks. two years ago, $3 million. this year they were about to do an even bigger stock buyback. they backed off after the rail crash, after the derailment, but at the same time a third of their work force, they've laid off a third of their work force. so it's clear that their greed and incompetence takes precedent over making workers safe, and keeping the community safe. the governor said this hazardous material will come into ohio and they don't have to notify the state that they're here.

they don't have to notify local fire departments. i have been to the fire station in east palestine. they have one full-time chief and the rest are volunteers. they're not trained to deal with hazmat. the railroads continue to deal with holding back information. they continue to enrich their executives at the expense of public safety and public health and lay off workers and compromise on safety. so the fact, ohio's now had four derailments as of yesterday, four derailments in the last five months. east palestine was the most serious, but we still have questions about these other derailments too. >> but how would the bipartisan legislation you introduced this week prevent disasters like this? >> well, it does a number of things. first of all, it requires notification you're coming into the state, carrying hazardous material. you're going to notify the governor's office who will then notify local communities.

we know that wheel bearings have been the cause -- overheated wheel bearings and not doing the inspections well. that will change. we want minimal crews. the railroads want to be able to drive 150, 200 cars through a community with one one engineer in that car, one person, one staff person because they keep laying off people. we want to increase the fines. the fines were safety have averaged about $10,000 over the last few years to norfolk southern and csx and the other big railroads. that's pennies on the dollar. it's no incentive to make it safer. we will significantly up those fines, and again, we want to see more inspections. these inspections because they've laid off so many workers, they're really just cursory inspections on the rails, on the coupling of the

cars, on the locomotives. when you lay off a third of the work force, you clearly are compromising the work that those workers do, and they simply can't keep up with the safety inspections. the bill i've introduced with senator vance, we have two other republicans and two other democrats. as you said at the outset of the show, it shouldn't take a rail disaster to get us working together like that, and that's what we're going to be doing. >> the chair of the committee that oversees transportation is signaling opposition and calling it burdensome regulation. are you sure it's going to pa pass? >> i think our chances in the senate are good. i make no predictions in the house. i can't believe -- keep in mind who has the influence in the house of representatives. the big railroads have weakened safety rules or resisted safety rules for years. i'm hopeful there are lobbyists that they've given a lot of money i assume to house republicans. i don't know about that chairman in particular, but i'm very concerned about the power of the railroads to beat back safety regulations, be you you would think a disaster that happened in these east palestine would have gotten their attention, and

east palestine is mostly a republican community as the whole county is, but this shouldn't happen. they want this fixed. they don't care aout partisan politics here. they care that this corporation continues to weaken safety rules, continues to be immensely profitable while undermining public help, public safety for their workers and for the communities that they -- that they drive through with their 150, 200 rail car trains. >> finally, senator, you're bucking a trend holding statewide office in ohio. you're up for re-election next year. are you concerned that president biden in the state of ohio might be a drag on you? >> i don't think a lot about that. i've spent much of the last three months before this train derailing going to round tables in wilmington and elyria and ravenna, and it's going to make a huge difference, and one of the ways it's effect canned to

this as you know, george, the exposure to these football field-sized burn pits in iraq and afghanistan, tens and tens of thousands of ohio veterans were exposed to these, and we actually -- we wrote a law that's taking effect where we list 23 illnesses that could come about from this exposure. if you are a veteran and you have had exposure with those benefits and you present with any of those 23 illnesses, you automatically get care at a va or a va hospital. i want to talk about what we're doing in east palestine. if people two, three, five years from now end up with bronchial illnesses from breathing the air or drinking this water or exposure to the soil, we've got to keep testing, then norfolk southern is going to pay for that by taking care of their health care, whether it's two or

five years down the road. the way that the va is taking care of people. >> thank you for your time this morning. >> sure, george. thank you. and we're joined by republican senator dan sullivan of alaska. thank you for coming in. >> it's good to be on the program. >> i want to start with this railway safety legislation. >> sure. >> do you think this is something you could support? >> we're going to have hearings this week, and on the rail safety issues, i'm actually glad that senator brown and senator vance have put forward some good bipartisan legislation. you know t key issue from my perspective, not just on trains, but certainly on aviation is i agree with senator brown it shouldn't take a disaster to have good oversight legislation to make sure that we have a safe rail system, but really importantly that i have focused on, george, is a safe aviation system. you've probably seen there's been several near misses. we have had three hearings already on the commerce committee just in the last six weeks on aviation safety, but we

need to be proactive, not reactive with regard to these kind of public safety transportation issues. >> what is going on here? we cover this every day on "good morning america." it seems like we have a close call two or three times a week. you had president biden's nominee to head the faa up before the senate this week. that position has been vacant for nearly a year. is that hampering aviation safety efforts? >> i think it absolutely is, and they needed to get a nominee up. it was a tough hearing for him. he's somebody who served in the army honorably, but doesn't have a lot of experience with regard to aviation safety. so we'll see what happens, but we need a qualified head of the faa, and again, we need to be on this in terms of safety now. americans take for granted that their aviation safety, flying in america, is the safest place to do it in the world, but from my perspective, these are huge warning signs that you're talking about, what we have been talking about. i think it's been six near

misses in the last two months. on this.hy we have had hearings- >> what are we learning from the hearings? why is this happening? >> one of the big things is we need much more aggressive focus on updating their focus, and infrastructure. that's come out in the hearings, and i think that's something that we need to make sure -- again. proactively, what we don't want to have happen is some kind of airplane disaster, and then congress is then writing legislation to deal with it after, you know, good governance is about proactively getting in front of these issues before they happen, not waiting as senator brown said. >> you heard senator brown lay out a tough bill of particulars against norfolk southern. the ceo will be appearing this week and testifying. what do you want to hear from him? >> i want to hear some of the issues that senator brown raised and some of the issues in particular to laying off of workers, but it's going to be overall -- it's not just going to be him. it's going to be government officials as well on what is happening. as he said, there's a number of

train derailments that happen across the country. several, and we need get to the bottom of why these are happening. >> i want to ask about the situation in ukraine right now. you have been pretty vocal in that we should be sending f-16s. president biden is saying it's not necessary. his administration is saying it'll take too long for them to get there. what's your response to that? >> this is part of an unfortunate pattern with this administration with regard to weapons systems for ukraine. if you look at it, every time there is a new weapons system that's been proposed, they oppose it. think about it. himars, stingers, tanks, patriots. >> they have sent those though. >> they've sent them only after being pressured by congress. it took patriots nine months. on the f-16s, i hosted several ukrainian pilots last summer in washington, d.c. we were pressing for f-16s. i sent a letter to the secretary of defense, to general milley,

the chairman of the joint chiefs. it looked like it was moving forward well within the ident gets off that entagon. helicopter a couple of months ago and says no, and then last week the national security adviser says we're not going to do f-16s for now. that's exactly the wrong approach, george. for now. they need these weapon systems now, and this has been a pattern, an unfortunate pattern by this administration, delaying critical weapons systems until we pressure them. they finally get them there, but oftentimes it takes too late. >> i want to ask you about this as well. president trump appears to be the republican front-runner right now, but he's facing serious investigations on at least three fronts, georgia, new york -- new york city, and of course, the special counsel as well. here's what donald trump said about that yesterday. >> can you take this moment to assure your donors and your supporters that you're in this race to stay no matter what

happens with those investigations? >> they've weaponized justice in our country. it's a disgrace, and i think people are very angry about it. >> so you'll stay in the race? >> oh, absolutely. i will. i won't even think about leaving. >> what's it going to man for the republican party if donald trump insists on running even if indicted? >> well, look. that's a hypotheticals right? we'll see if that plays out. i think what's happening though within the republican party right now, in terms of presidential candidates is healthy, right? we don't -- we not only have president trump, but we have a number of other, i think very qualified candidates who are throwing their hat in the ring. i think you'll see some others throwing their hat in the ring very soon, and i think having a good, competitive primary with a new generation of republicans by the way, is healthy for our party. it's healthy for the country, and i plan on supporting the nominee who wins the republican nomination. >> so you'll forth donald trump if he's the nominee, even if he's indicted? >> that's a huge hypothetical right now on the indictment issue. we'll see if that plays out, but right now my plan is to report -- is to support who becomes the nominee.

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those with fragile egos who refuse to acknowledge reality. >> we will cross the finish line. we will dismantle the deep state. we will demolish woke tyranny, and we will make america great again. >> some scenes from the conservative political action conference, cpac, traditionally kicks off the gop primary, but most of trump's challengers have chosen to stay of his own turf. rick klein is here to break it down. lots of jockeying. not a lot of engagement. >> it's striking when you think about what happened just four years ago. at this exact date four years ago in 2019, there were already 13 democrats lining up to take on former president trump. notably president biden was not among them. he waited another four weeks, but this time around for the republicans, it is different. they think that biden is very vulnerable, but you won't see that many candidates get into the race. only two so far in donald trump and nikki haley. we heard from larry hogan of maryland. he is not running. now all eyes will be on these other candidates, the potential

candidates. some of them may get in later this spring. ron desantis of course is one we'll keep a close eye on. he did not go to that cpac gathering. this is a maga-friendly, trump-friendly gathering. he will be at the reagan library in iowa later this week and a lot of people will be looking to see what he does in the later legislative session and if he gets in to challenge trump. >> on the democratic side, marianne williamson is a message candidate more than a serious contender. >> yeah, look, george. there's no reason for people to think she's going to be the democratic nominee, but there is reason to think things could get interesting or she could mix things up. only 31% of democrats said they wanted president biden, the incumbet president to be the nominee next time around. 58% saying someone else would be their choice. whether it's williamson or not is another question, but the calendar question, these are the states that kicked things off

four years ago. it's a familiar list for us. democrats though are doing something different this time. they're adding a few states into the primary process. they're putting south carolina first. they're adding georgia and michigan, two big, diverse states that delivered for joe biden last time around in the primaries, but here is the big wrinkle. new hampshire, george, has a state law that says they have to be first in the primary process, and if they jump the line as the state law would suggest they would, it might mean that new hampshire gets penalized and might even get delegates, but it could get a lot of attention. marianne williamson says she'll have a dozen events in new hampshire this week alone, and four years ago in the new hampshire primaries, joe biden came in fifth place. >> rick klein, thanks very much. just before she announced, marianne williamson sat down with our chief washington correspondent jon karl to talk about her long shot challenge. >> why do you want to be president? >> i want to be president because this country needs to make an economic u-turn, and the

system that effectuates and perpetuates that kind of income and opportunity inequality is not changing itself. it tweaks itself every once in . there's incremental change, but the devastation, the ubiquitous economic despair and devastation that is produced by this socioeconomic system is not changing and it's not going to change if we continue to elect the same old same. >> you have been called by i think "the associated press" the longest of slong shots. >> i would also bet they said hillary clinton was a shoo-in. >> i don't know if they used that language. >> you know exactly what i'm saying. the system is now saying i'm unserious, i'm not credible or i'm a long shot is the very system that protects and maintains this idea that only those whose careers have been entrenched within the system that drove us into a ditch should possibly be considered qualified to lead us all of that ditch.

my qualification is not that i know how to perpetuate that system. my qualification is that i know how to disrupt it, and that is what we need. >> disrupt it how? >> the first thing you can do is you can cancel all college loan debt. >> biden just tried that, and the court stopped it. >> he tried, yes, and some people think if he just canceled the entire thing and he'd done it immediately, it would not have given his opponents the opportunity to wage the kind of battle against that that it has. >> there are rules how to accomplish things. you have to work through congress. we don't have a dictator. >> there are many things that the president can do without working through congress. i don't see myself as running against joe biden. i see this campaign as challenging a system. >> you do have to beat biden to. >> yes, i do. yes, i do, and i plan on pointing out not with any kind of negativity on a personal level -- i have no interest in taking shot hots on any personal level to this president. he's a nice man.

>> you endorsed bernie sanders when you got out of the race. >> i sure did. >> you called elizabeth warren -- i think you said she is a legend. >> she is. i love those people. >> both people said biden deserves re-election. >> that's their opinion. >> are they wrong? >> it's not about -- no, no, no. this is a democracy. this is not about what i think is wrong. obviously i believe the american people should be offered an agenda for genuine, fundamental economic reform, and it should be the voters who decide. it should not be the dnc that decides. it should be the voters that decide. that is what a democracy is. >> do you expect that biden will debate you? >> he certainly should debate me. it's called democracy, and i'm running as well. >> and what about this notion of taking new hampshire out of its -- out of its position? you're going to new hampshire. >> i can tell you that new hampshirites are not happy about that. >> will you be competing in the new hampshire primary? >> of course, i will. the dnc should not be rigging this system. they don't even pretend anymore. they've not even covert about their -- their swaying the primary scene.

they're very overt about it. >> that's what's going on? they're rigging the system for biden? >> they even admit that, jonathan. >> do you think biden is too old to run for re-election? >> i'm not going there. i don't think age has any place in our thinking. >> will you endorse him if he wins the nomination? >> i will certainly endorse the candidate who i feel can beat the republicans, absolutely. >> if he's the democratic nominee, will you endorse him? >> i will do whatever i feel i can do as an american to make sure that the neofascist threat that is represented by some aspects of the republican party does not win in 2024. >> in a blog post talking about possibly running for president recently you said, change is inevitable in this country. we are either going to have a peaceful revolution or a violent one. what do you mean? >> excuse me.

did you not cover january 6th? >> yes. >> what is happening in this country is people are experiencing vast amounts of economic fear, anxiety. when you have this much economic anxiety, and millions and millions of people experiencing that kind of desperation -- >> do you think january 6th was economic -- >> i did not say that, but i think the election of president trump in many ways was just as i feel the support of bernie sanders -- bernie sanders and donald trump both said to the american people, i understand your rage. i understand your upset with an obviously economically rigged system, and that is what the democrats need to offer in 2024, a president who isn't just saying, oh, it's going well, to millions of people for whom nothing like that is true, but rather we understand that you are living at the effect of an unjust, economic system, and we are going to change that. >> thanks to jon karl for that. the round table is next. we'll be right back.

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is he calming the concerns of democrats at least in the house? you have so many in the public who don't want him to run. >> in some ways you are hearing a lot of congressional democrats actually want to support biden. i think there was a little bit of hesitation before the midterms, if they went badly for democrats, there would be much more emphasis to try and see if there were options, but right now when you talk to those congressional democrats, you say, who else could it be? the interesting thing biden said in that clip is we as democrats need to talk about selling this. these messages, things that we were able to do, and if they know that we did it, then, you know, that could be a better victory for 2024, and it's interesting only because, you know, biden's not getting a lot of credit for the legislative things that have passed and things that have become law, and i think biden is trying to make sure that democrats are there, and also because they're talking to the constituents all the time saying, biden did this. it wasn't just us democrats in congress. biden did this as well.

he signed this into law. >> the first challenger, you got marianne williamson out there, but you've got these bigconcern about joe biden and his age. >> you know, i think the president has tried to address that in many ways by basically being present. i just want to say something, and i was struck by this notion that the white house is now going out and recruit people -- high-profile democrats to go out there and try to help the president and vice president deliver the message. i hope that works, but the best messenger is the president himself. he has to go out there. he has to show that he's ready to finish the job, and if he's able to do that, this -- the president will be re-elected. >> chris? >> i look and i welcome it because he won't be able to do it. you know, i love this idea that he's talking to people about, you have to sell it. the white house sells it. president sells his accomplishments, and then the members of congress follow

along. they all read out of the same himmal, but the himmal has to be written by the president, and i want to remind everybody, george. remember the 2020 campaign. it was not a campaign. joe biden did not go and do ive, six stops a day on air force one, traveling all over the country. >> sounds like a smart strategy, didn't it? >> it was one that was necessary. four years later, he's not going to be able to do that. thank god we won't have covid to stop people from doing normal, hand to hand campaigning, and if he can't do that, or if he does try to do it, i think the results are going to be very, very problematic for democrats up and down the ballot. >> it may or may not, but you are absolutely correct, and this is the concern from democrats is that including those congressional democrats he was reaching out to is this has to come from the top down. it's not unusual to recruit people to spread your message. it's unusual to sponsor people, when we all do it together. the governor is correct in they benefitted enormously, and it gets lost in hindsight, the way

they were able to campaign in 2020. while donald trump is not doing very much, let's say he's the nominee, he still is more active than biden historically or they're facing a much younger nominee, and that's something democrats are worried about. >> deja vu all over again, donna brazile. joe biden and donald trump. >> so far that's the story. let me say something in the defense of the president. leading up to covid, joe biden was out there. he was out there connecting voters in all of the early states and a very vigorous campaign, and rick pointed out he had numerous competitors. today for example, he's down in selma, alabama to observe the 58th anniversary of bloody sunday. i don't think this is an issue of joe biden being in the house or outside the house or campaigning across the country. it's really an issue of can he connect with those voters and

the coalition that he pulled together in 2020 in order to win over 306 electoral votes? >> there's a piece we can't mention. he is clearly running for re-election based on the policy moves he is make. anyone who is doubting that, i don't know what they're looking at. he is facing backlash from progressives in his own party. it's not just on messaging, but it's on policy. it's immigration policy. it's on the d.c. crime focus. he's being praised for immigration by jim jordan and tom cotton, neither of whom are normal republicans. >> he's more concerned about crime than d.c. statehood. >> the to your point, that is very hard, and that is a key example. i mean on wednesday, biden tried to tell democrats we can do this together and he told senators, i'm actually going to go and allow this vote to happen. i'm not going to veto it, and he did not say that to house democrats. that has caused a lot of anxiety and mistrust to the white house

and biden himself because at the time of that vote, he said, yo know what? d.c. should be able to make their own decisions. i'm not getting involved in this only to go back, you know, to counter those republicans' attacks on democrats being soft on crime. >> let me start this. covid started in early march of 2020. we shut down on march 12th of 2020. i don't know what vigorous campaign you were looking at, but by that time, he had come in fifth in new hampshire, he had come in fourth or fifth in iowa, and then he had come back and won south carolina, and was engaging, and then campaigning stopped. there was no vigorous campaign for march forward. he was in his basement in

wilmington, and doing rallies in front of people in their cars blowing horns. give me a break. we know what that campaign was. i'm not saying he could have done anything differently. he couldn't have, and he chose not to also strategically, and it turned out as you said, george, to be smart, but it's four years later. let's not just even say the 2020 joe biden. the 2024 joe biden at 82 years old, is he going to make five or six stops a day? is he going to do the campaigning you know happens at the end where you start on the east coast and you go -- you just chase the sun all the way to the west coast? how articulate is he going to be? how forceful and strong is he going to be? those are all valid questions for any person who's 82 years old, let alone somebody who's had joe biden's history of gaffes. >> look. don't underestimate joe biden. that's all i'm going to say, and when it comes to joe biden putting together his operation, his team, and his strategy to win, i have -- i have every confidence that the president will do it.

i want to say something. huge mistake by the president. >> mistake? >> absolutely. let me tell you why. i sat down because chris christie told me about this a couple of months ago. the d.c. code is old. it was written in 1901. in some areas, there are no penalties for sexual assault. there's only three months when you beat up a police officer. so while i understand that some republicans want to show they're tough on crime by beating up on the district of columbia, we deserve statehood. we deserve to get it right, and this was a process that took 16 years. it was evaluated by a criminal justice expert. council and the d.c. residents and all of a sudden, marjorie taylor greene and a few others have decided this is the issue where they want to pick on the district of columbia. there's a reason he didn't open his mouth and say something in that house caucus, and that's because the congresswoman in her

80s too would have said, hell no. this is about state rule. the d.c. council. let the mayor and the council work this out. the president should in the be engaged in d.c. affairs. >> could he afford to have the crime issue front and center? >> it should be front and center. we have a crime issue in red and blue states and cities. when i red the cdc report of one-fourth of teenage girls have considered suicide. we need to have a conversation about mental health, about crime, and look at the wholistic approach and not pick on one city. >> i agree with that by the way, and the crime issue has to be front and center because if anyone saw the interview with the fbi director this week, but he said that crime through the roof across the country, and that he's dealing with state and local law enforcement officials who are throwing their hands up at how bad things are right now in every section of this country. so this is not something that's going to be able to be handled by passing the d.c. crime bill. do i think he should be doing what he's doing?

i do, but the point is it's not going to take the issue off the table. i understand what you are saying that it would make it even worse. >> it doesn't make it wrse. >> it doesn't get rid of the issue for him. >> i think that's totally fair. we've talked about joe biden. let's talk about the man you've covered for the last several decades. >> how old do you think i am? i feel older than i was. >> you hinted at this in your first answer and i can't figure this out. he's the front-runner and popular at cpac, and that's clear, but is he running a real campaign? >> he has serious people running this campaign. there's a difference in how it's put together from 2016 to now, be you you are correct. we have seen someone who got attention in 2015 because he was

doing these rallies and he seemed very in your face and everywhere, and some of that is how omnipresent in media. he's not anymore.phe's not on f anything like that.pi suspect p not seeing big rallies is his age. we talk a lot about biden's age. donald trump is not young. number one, number two, i don't think they have the money they once had on that campaign. those rallies are incredibly expensive, and they are trying to chase news cycles. they've done that somewhat effectively. i want to hit on that. yesterday he said that he will not, and you played this earlier in the show. he would not drop out if he is indicted which is a very real possibility in two different states and by the federal officials. that gets us into very uncharted territory, not normally. we've seen people who are under investigation before, but not this scenario, and not with the backdrop of the january 6th riot. >> how many times does that come up normal when you are talking about donald trump? >> you combine him saying that with some of what he talked about in his speech yesterday, and i think people really need to watch for how he is going to intentionally incorporate an indictment. >> chris, he seems to think, at least he says and his team say he'll be able to use the

indictment that he's being persecuted. is that realistic? >> what else is he going to say? if you get indicted, you got to say that or else it's a death nail, right? that's what he's going to say, but you saw the scenes at cpac. that room was half full. >> yep. >> okay? let's not pretend that cpac is cpac anymore. it's tpac. it's trump pac. it's not cpac any longer and only the most desperate people showed up at cpac to even speak other than trump or people within trump's orbit. the fact of what's going on here is the reason i think the rallies are not going on, maggie, is not just because of the money although i think that's a factor. i don't think the rallies would be nearly as big as they were before. >> that's absolutely true, and it was true before. >> what got him upset on january 6th? >> the crowd side size. >> what got him upset on january 20, 2017? the crowd size. he measures that as an example of his power and authority, and

i don't think he has it anymore. he's the front-runner, there's no doubt. he's an incumbent president running for renomination, not re-election. he's the front-runner right now and ahead in the polls, but there are a lot of indicator here that he's not what he used to be in most respects. donna will try to resuscitate him right now because her lifelong dream is she knows the only republican joe biden can beat is donald trump, so go ahead. i'll stop now. >> you have 30 seconds. you have 30 seconds to tamp it down. >> this was classic trump. one hour and 45 minutes, and the best line was, in 2016, i said i was your voice. i'm your warrior. this was classic trump. >> i mean, come on. all he wants to do is hurt the people who he thinks screwed him in 2020. i don't think that's a forward-looking message about truth for the american people. >> now he's going after rhinos and that's okay with me. >> that's the last word for right now.

up ahead, ahead of national wednesday, rachel scott talks about the supporto revive the equal rights amendment. stay with us. wednesday, rachel scott talks about the support to revive the equal rights amendment. stay with us. in classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, scness, he, sherg, fever, and upset stomach.

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50 years ago would pass in congress after a bipartisan push from leading female legislators like shirley chisholm. >> if the woman's movement is to be successful, you must recognize the broad variety of women they are, and the depth and range of their interests and their concerns. >> reporter: but it was never ratified. determined resistance from conservatives like phyllis schlafly stopped the movement in its tracks, just three states short of the 38 needed to become official. >> i have every confidence because the majority of women simply don't want it. >> reporter: the era remained frozen for years. brought back to life amid the me too movement, a record number of women running and winning seats in congress and fears after the supreme court's landmark decision to overturn roe versus wade. in 2020, virginia became the 38th state to ratify the era, following nevada and illinois. >> for the women of virginia and

the women of america, the resolution has finally passed. [ cheers and applause ] >> reporter: now a new push is under way to secure equal protection for women under the law. >> each week that goes by without the era is a week where we allow, we, congress, we allow injustice and inequity to thrive. >> are you surprised that we are still having this conversation in 2023? >> states have met the threshold of ratification. the only thing standing in our way is the arbitrary deadline set by congress in 1972. >> reporter: the senate this week holding the first major hearing on the era in decades. >> here we are, a century after its first introduction, 2023. it's time to get the job done. in fact, it's long overdue. >> reporter: the language of the proposed amendment is simple, stating equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or

abridged by the united states or by any state on account of sex. supporters say the consequences would be far reaching. >> the equal rights amendment in and of itself is a principle and a promise of equality. it means a stronger economy. it means more of us have protection from discrimination. >> reporter: it's a fight being closely watched by this woman who is fighting a federal lawsuit against washington, d.c. ems alleging gender discrimination and demanding equal pay. >> this is the same story everywhere you go, especially with women who are in a profession such as firefighting, police, you know, where men dominate. >> reporter: the wage gap, a long held rallying cry for women. >> we come here as women who earn 58 cents for every dollar earned by men. >> reporter: in one of several areas, advocates said the era would shore up. >> imagine a world in which men

and women could paid for the same work. >> reporter: the battle still break down along party lines. >> congress has no power to go pack in time and resurrect an expired constitutional amendment like the era. >> people who are pushing politically to pass this are hanging their hat on it. it became law, every pro-life measure in this country would fall. >> reporter: senator lisa murkowski, one of the only republicans on board, hoping this latest push builds momentum. >> what has happened in this state should not die here in the senate. we still have a long ways to go when it comes to achieving equality for women. >> should this be a partisan issue? >> equality for all people? certainly there should not be nothing partisan about that. >> reporter: in the house, republicans refuse to take up the bill. democratic congresswoman ayanna pressley hopes to keep the fight alive. >> i'm dismayed we still have to fight, given the contributions of women as defenders of our democracy and all the contributions that we make to civic life, to culture, to our

economy, and so it's long past time. >> reporter: for "this week," rachel scott, abc news, washington. >> thanks to rachel for that. we'll be right back. washington. thanks to rachel for that. we'll be right back. with the freestyle libre 2 system, know your glucose level and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. manage your diabetes with more confidence.

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