-- fromthe sick at the pacifica, this is democracy now! >> children sleeping on the floor. it is unacceptable. it is an offense to the humanity of all of us here at -- of us. as the palestinian death toll in gaza tops 1,300 and israel faces international condemnation for bombing a u.n. shelter, the united states gives israel a new supply of grenades and mortar rounds. and is poised to spend hundreds of millions of dollars more on israel's rocket defense system.

>> iron dome has meant the difference between life and death and i'm deeply proud helped make it possible, and i am proud with his enthusiastic support the united states will more than double our investment inran dome[applause] >>rodome or iron sieve. we will speak to an mit scientist who questions the effectiveness of the u.s. funded billion dollar system. then we return to our conversation with henry siegman, the former head of the american jewish congress and the synagogue council of america. >> if at some point the united states were to say you want to do it, you are on ur own, that could still change the situation because the israelis do not want to have the country live in a

world where america is not there to have their back. >> all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. >> the palestinian death toll has passed 1370. saysealth ministry in gaza the debt includes 300 15 children. more than 7700 have been wounded. 13 people were killed in bombings earlier today. at a news conference, prime minister benjamin netanyahu vowed to continue the fighting. arael would also reject cease-fire that events it from wiping out the tunnels. the tunnels have been used to carry out attacks and smuggled goods. rockets fired from gaza had killed three civilians inside of

israel. israel's military death toll during the assault is at 58. israel drew condemnation from the u.n.. ,t least 16 people were killed all civilians. u.n. security general ban ki-moon called the attack shameful. >> this morning, a united nations school sheltering thousands of families suffered a reprehensible attack. all available evidence points to israeli artillery as the cause. nothing is more shameful than attacking sleeping children. dead and many more are injured. >> the attack marked six time a u.n. school had been struck during an israel offensive. the obama administration but hasd the attack

refused to blame or condemned israel. the pentagon has confirmed an approval to restock israel's supply of ammunition. the u.s. will provide stock including mortar rounds. another israeli bombing killed 17 people near a market. the attack occurred despite israel declaring a four-our humanitarian pause. around 160 people were injured. most died of headwinds. >> all the people that were targeted were hit in the head with the aim of killing them. we are talking about 100 wounded, and a massacre during the truce that they announced. twohe dead included palestinian journalists.

been journalists have killed. remainarts of gaza without electricity or running water after israel bombed the power plant this week. the debt. did the deputy general we for an end. >> how can you run a hospital without clean water. youcan you keep food if cannot have refrigerators -- everything we take for granted is gone. we have a hugely dangerous situation from a humanitarian perspective. i do not think we need more reminders of stopping this horror. we have to see the end of

fighting. chief u.n. human rights condemns what she called israel's deliberate defiance of and -- of international law. protests continue around the world. several were arrested at the israeli embassy in washington, d.c.. we will have more on gaza after headlines. the republican-controlled house has approved speaker john boehner's request to sue president obama. boehner says obama has overstepped his authority, citing executive orders that include raising the minimum wage, expanding lgbt protections, and stopping the deportation of undocumented immigrants who came to the united states as children. but the lawsuit itself focuses solely on the delayed implementation of a portion of the affordable care act -- a law republicans opposed and tried to repeal. at a speech in st. louis, president obama mocked republican opposition. >> so, some of the things we are

doing without congress would make a difference, but we could do so much more if congress would just come on in and help out a little bit. just come on. come on and help out a little bit. [applause] stop being mad all the time. [applause] stop, stop, stop just hating all the time. come on. let's get some work done together. >> today is the last day before lawmakers take a nearly six-week summer recess. in one of congress' few legislative accomplishments, the senate is poised to pass a $16 billion dollar measure to address the veteran healthcare crisis following house approval on wednesday. the bill includes funding for new staff and facilities and allows veterans who face lengthy wait or travel times to seek private care. lawmakers will likely end the current session without a measure to address the migrant

crisis on the mexico border. president obama has asked republicans for $3.7 billion dollars, but a republican countermeasure would allocate less than $700 million. the current session will also end without action on comprehensive immigration reform. immigrant rights groups have organized a march in washington, d.c., on saturday under the banner of "not one more deportation." organizers are calling on president obama quote "to reverse his record deportations and right his policies to expand relief to the fullest extent possible under the law." they also want obama to meet with undocumented leaders. a group of undocumented immigrants meanwhile has reportedly launched a new hunger strike at a detention facility in washington state. the immigrants are said to be fasting for 75 hours up until saturday's march. the northwest detention center in tacoma has seen a number of hunger strikes this year over poor conditions and national immigration policy.

the u.s. border patrol is facing a civil rights lawsuit for the 2012 shooting death of a mexican teenager. sixteen-year old josé antonio rodríguez was killed after u.s. border agents opened fire on people throwing rocks from the mexican side of the border. rodríguez had ventured out to buy food. he was shot eight times. at a news conference, rodríguez's mother demanded justice for her son. >> there must be justice. intelligent tobe know that they have to pay for what they did. on,ow this will go on and but one day we will have justice. >> shootings involving u.s. border agents have killed 20 people since 2010. countries and africa are employing new measures to cope with the worst outbreak of ebola

in history. sierra leone has declared a state of emergency, mobilizing the army and vowing to quarantine stricken neighborhoods and conduct home searches for sick people. leading the doctor fight against the virus died of ebola himself. nonessential government workers .re on mandatory leave the peace corps is evacuated -- is evacuating hundreds of volunteers from stricken countries. argentina has gone into default on its sovereign debt after failing to resolve a payment dispute with u.s. investors. a recent supreme court ruling sided with vulture funds that purchased argentina's debt for bargain prices after its financial crisis and then refused to cut the value of their holdings, unlike other creditors. a lower court judge then barred argentina from repaying the majority of its creditors

without also repaying the vulture funds. the argentine government has refused to fully repay the vulture funds. it's delivered a $539 million dollar interest payment to avoid the default, but the judge's order bars the payment's release. after failing to meet a midnight deadline, argentina went into default for the second time in 13 years. negotiations are expected to continue in the coming days. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. outrageous and unjustifiable. those were the words used by the united nations to condemn israel after at least 20 palestinian civilians died when the un shelter they were seeking refuge -- shelter was bombed in gaza on wednesday. u.n. secretary-general ban ki-moon said all available evidence points to israeli artillery as the cause. it was the sixth time a un

shelter had been bombed since the israeli offensive in gaza began 24 days ago. the un said it had given the coordinates of the shelter to the israeli military 17 times prior to the attack. according to the united nations, more than 240,000 palestinians are now staying in un shelters in gaza. another 200,000 palestinians have been displaced and are staying with other families. hours after the attack, christopher gunness, the spokesperson for the united nations relief and work agency for palestine refugees broke down during an interview with al jazeera. >> the rights of palestinians, even their children, our wholesale denied, and it is appalling. >> joining us now is christopher gunness, spokesperson for the the united nations relief and works agency for palestine refugees, known as the unrwa.

he is joining us via video stream from jerusalem. chris, welcome back to democracy now! can you talk about what took place yesterday? >> well, we saw huge displacement in gaza. unrwaare now in facilities, 250,000 people, so it is reached great breaking point. we are at the point where eight of our staff has been killed. our facilities are overwhelmed because of the continued displacement and the fact that israel has dropped leaflets, etc., from the sky, and sent text messages, possibly tens of

thousands, hundreds of more -- hundreds of thousands more will be displaced and we could soon find ourselves with hundreds of thousands in the street, no food, no water, and artillery is capable of hitting save shelters. we are saying enough is enough. we cannot be expected to have an absorb theacity to consequences of israeli military decisions and it is time that we acknowledge that we move beyond the round of humanitarian action alone, and we have moved into the realm of political accountability and political action. an international was going to be briefing from gaza today. it is going to be an historic moment, at 5:00 p.m. gaza time, and it is available live streaming through the u.n. website. he's going to tell them council

that we have reached -- the council that we have reached raking point. we know which influence has to be brought about. it is time for israel to end the conflict because the guns need to fall silent. spilled,ood has been and that moment of permanent cease-fire will not come soon enough. the 6 million in israel that have been terrorized. , how doespher gunness the u.n. know that it was israel that attack shelter? >> the word attack is not a word that we use. that implies deliberate intentionality, and that is not what we are saying. we are saying and -- israeli authority shall struck the school. and analyze the

debris, including fragments found at the same. in ourconfident enough initial findings to have gone public and to have made a strong condemnation of the serious violation of international law by israeli forces. i think the very fact that he -- that an humanitarian organization is making somethings, that is about how certain of our fact that we are. let's have a proper investigation. accountability, transparency, and proper reporting. the truth will come out. we hope with truth, as is often the case, will come justice. >> i want to turn to mark regev, spokesperson for israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, who was asked about the bombing of the un school by cnn's wolf blitzer.

>> first of all, it is not clear to us that it was israeli fire -- that hit that school. what we do know is hamas forces were shooting at us from the immediate vicinity of that u.n. school. now, if our forces are in the field and being shot at, it is only natural that they would return fire to save their own lives. >> israeli spokesperson mark regev also responded to the u.n.'s finding that it was in fact israeli shells which hit the school. >> first of all, we would be interested to hear and what they say and we will cooperate in investigations. we will be transparent if it was our fault or errant israeli fire. we will come clean. we have admitted what we have made mistakes. the secretary-general of the united nations has been clear -- he said when terrorists put weapons or use a u.n. facility for their military purposes, they are responsible because they are endangering the lives

of everyone that is at the facility. it was clear that our forces were taking fire from terrorists in the immediate vicinity of that school, therefore it is hamas that has turned this area into a war zone and they their responsibility. >> that is israeli spokesperson ev.k reg >> christopher gunness, can you respond? what he seemed -- >> he seems to be saying there were terrorists there that israel the liberally attack, but if the most moral army in the world, which the israeli army has called itself, feels there will be an attack where women and children will be killed, children that slept at their parents side in a safe area, would it not be defensible to allow the principle of distinction to be taking hold,

and for women and children to be allowed to leave the combat zone ? what about the notion of proportionality, the fact that you are attacking militants near an unrwa compound, and the risk is that you kill women and children in large numbers? isn't that something where the rules of war dictate the israeli army should be cognizant of? militantshat a few one near the school somehow shellies artillery hitting that school, seems to me as a citizen of the world, not necessarily an expert in international law, completely unconscionable. the fact that we have seen the quite proper repulsion of the world, given the carnage that we there,, i think says something about the way the

arguments are stacking up. it is fine for israeli spokespeople to say these things, but let's not forget that our compound in january of 2009 was struck with white phosphorus where hundreds had taken refuge. we had all sorts of fine words from israeli spokes people, regev about how heartbroken they were. here we have them hitting the same area. one might also be asking mr. regev about the pinpoint nature onehese strikes because seriously has to wonder about the technology of the israeli army and indeed the methodology behind the targeting techniques. >> christopher gunness, thank

you for being with us, spokesperson for the united nations relief and work agency for palestinian refugees, known as unrwa. back, henry siegman, part two of our conversation with the former head of the american jewish congress. stay with us. ♪ ]music break

this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we continue our coverage of the israeli offensive on gaza, we turn to part two of our interview with henry siegman, the former head of the american jewish congress and the synagogue council of america. what he says about the future of israel and the ongoing assault on gaza may surprise you. siegman was born in 1930 in frankfurt, germany. his family fled germany as the nazis came to power, eventually arriving in the united states in 1942. his father was a leader of the

european zionism pushing for the creation of a jewish state. in new york, henry siegman studied and was ordained as an orthodox rabbi by yeshiva torah vodaas. he now serves as president of the u.s./middle east project. he recently wrote a piece for politico titled "israel provoked this war: it's up to president obama to stop it." democracy now!'s nermeen shaikh and i sat down with him on tuesday. i asked him about israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu's claim that israel is just responding to the thousands of rockets that hamas and other groups are firing from gaza. >> my response is they would not be firing those rockets if you did not have an occupation in place, and one of the reasons you say you do not have an occupation in place is because you do not have a united partner, a palestinian partner to make peace with, and when palestinians seek to establish that kind of a government, which they recently did, bringing

hamas into the governmental seek to destroy that. you will not recognize it. there are several reasons for -- the israeli action. a primary one is to prevent this new government from actually , and attempt to break up the new unity government set up by the palestinians. >> why would they do that? why would they want to do that? >> they want to do that -- for the first time, for the first time, four years, i have been suggesting and arguing that they are intent on preventing the development of the palestinian state. to put it bluntly, they want all of it. they want all of palestine. now, benjamin netanyahu said

openly and without any he was not a when politician, he wrote about his opposition to a palestinian state, that israel could not allow that, and he opposed not just palestinian statehood, but agreements with egypt and jordan, and he calls it a step toward stabilization and a more peaceful region. came into office as prime minister, he understood that it is not a smart thing to policy is toel's maintain the occupation permanently. the only difference between his positions in the past and the position now is that he prevent -- pretends that he would really like to see a two state

solution, which as you know is the affirmation that he made in ,is speech several years ago and people said redemption is at hand. to his own people he winked and and it is on record that his father said "of course he did not mean it, he will attach conditions that make it impossible." that was his tactic, to say we are all in favor of it, but only if we had a palestinian partner. in fact they have a palestinian partner that has been willing and able. they set up institutions that the world bank has said are more effective than most states that are members of the u.n. today, and that, of course, made no

difference, and he continued to say we do not have a partner because you have nearly 2 million palestinians in gaza that are not represented. so, the unity government became a threat to that tactic of pretending to be in support of a palestinian state. >> in a response to the piece that you wrote for "political," which was headlined "israel provoked this war," the anti-defamation league writes " hamas has a charter they live up to everyday calling for israel's destruction. hamas is use up the last two years of relative quiet to build up an arsenal of rockets that will blow up israel and have developed tunnels with the purpose of murdering large numbers of israelis and -- seizing hostages.

henry siegman, can you respond? >> i would point out that that is the charter of israel, to prevent the emergence of a palestinian state, and they have built up their army and armaments to implement that policy. thedifference between hamas state of israel is that the state of israel is actually implementing it, and actually preventing a palestinian state, which does not exist. millions of palestinians that live in this position without rights, security, without hope, without a future -- that is not state of israel. the state of israel is a

successful state. an armyng economy, and whose main purpose is preventing the palestinian state from coming into being. that is their mandate. shockingly, they can stand by, even though international law says if you fromccupying people outside of your country you have a responsibility to protect them, and the responsibility to protect the people you are occupying -- the soldiers who are there, ostensibly to watchent the mandate will violence when it occurs, when they attack palestinians in the territories, and they will not do anything to prevent it. they will tell you it is not our job. they will tell you our job is to protect the jews. >> on the question of the support, successive u.s.

administrations supporting israel, i would like to again quote from something you said in a 2002 "new york times" interview -- you said "the support for israel and the united states fails a spiritual vacuum. if you do not support the government of israel, your jewishness, not your political judgment is in question." can you explain what you mean by that, and what implications of that have been in terms of u.s. government supporting israeli government policy? well, what i'd meant by that, and that was an interview quite a while ago -- >> 2002. >> i see. which is not all that long ago, for me, anyway. what i meant by that was something quite simple. jews, and irican suspect for most american jews, israel has become the content of

their jewish religious identification. it has very little other content. service have been at a where israel is not the subject of the sermon. typically, they are -- the sermons are not in the spirit of says myh, you know, who god, is this what god wants from you? your hands are bloody, they're filled with blood. he does not want your fast. he despises the sacrifices and your prayers. -- i cannotstice put you here in the synagogues. what i meant by that is their it tomuch more to judaism and

the meaning that you give to your jewish identity then support for the likes of benjamin netanyahu. , what youry siegman think the obama administration has done since his first administration, and what you think he ought to be doing differently on the question of israel-palestine, and in particular his response to this most recent military assault on gaza? >> i have written about this for years now. it is not all that complicated. it is quite clear that left to , if the united states says to the palestinians -- europe to talk, not to us, but to the israelis -- you guys have to talk, not to left but to the israelis, you have to come to an understanding, that is how peace is made, but we cannot

interfere. we cannot tell israel what to do. own devices, there will never be state, -- own devices, there'll never be a palestinian state, and i have serious doubts that we have not gone beyond the point where a palestinian state as possible. the settlements is to not make it possible. >> the jewish settlers. >> the jewish settlers have achieved the irreversibility of a settlement in terms of a vast infrastructure that one has put in place. a leftistere were government, a so-called leftist government that came to power, it would not be able to do it because of the upheaval that would be necessary to create such a state. there is only one thing -- two things that could happen that

could still produce a palestinian state. is because the united states remains absolutely essential in terms of israel security, its continued success at some point- if the united states were to say -- have now reached a point we have been with you through thick and thin, and we have and many have criticized the u.s. and the international community that we have double standards, and correcting things of israel that we do not expect from the rest of the world. we do have double standards, but it works the other way around. we grant israel privileges and tolerate behavior that we would not in other allies. we might say there is nothing we can do to change that, but we do

not give them billions of dollars, and we do not go to the vetosecurity council to efforts by the united nations to prevent that bad behavior. so, we have double standards, but it works the other way. if the united states were to say to israel there are common values that underlie this very special relationship we have with you, and these privileges that we have extended to you, but this cannot go on, you cannot do that when those values are being undermined. are doing today contradicts american values. we are a democratic country. we cannot be seen as aiding and abetting the suppression and ofmanent disenfranchisement an entire people. so, you are on your own. america sending

planes and bombs, but the issue is america removing itself from being a collaborator in the policies, and a facilitator, making it easy, and providing the tools for israel to do that. if at some point the united what is saido say in hebrew, so far, but no further, you want to do it, you're on your own, that would change -- that could still change the situation. the one thing israelis do not want to do is have the country live in a world where america is not there to have their back. and, the other possibility, which i have also written about, is for palestinians to say ok, you won. you have all of it. our struggle is no longer to push the border to maintain a

border when nobody's going to come to their help because international opinion does not mobilize around those issues, but this is a struggle against what looks and smells like apartheid. we want citizenship -- full palestine, andf make that the struggle. if palestinians were to undertake that kind of a struggle in a credible way where the israeli public would see that they really mean it and they're going to fight for that in a nonviolent way, not by , i am convinced, and i see no public that contradict that believe, that they would say to the government wait a minute, that is unacceptable for us. we cannot allow that. we do not want a majority arab

population here. i have talked to palestinians to move in urge them that direction and there is a growing movement on younger palestinians in that direction, hope may yet help. it has to be a serious moment. where they are ready to accept citizenship and fight for it and fightle state of his -- for it in a single state of israel -- is it possible for the israeli public to say this we cannot want, and we have to have a government that would accept. >> why would prime minister netanyahu, who has said he supports a two-state solution, created a situation that makes it virtually impossible, since it leads to this second possibility, which is a one-state solution, to the

possibility that he does not want, a majority arab country. israel believes that a one-state -- i said earlier and our conversation that he never speechhat he said in his , that he embraces a two-state. it was total -- totally contrived. and simple english, he lied. thatreciated the fact several weeks ago, two weeks ago i said -- he did not say lied, but he said there would never be a truly sovereign palestinian state. so, it is quite clear now, and one of his friends, the former editor who now edits "the times headline" had the

"finally, now we know it." he never meant it. he is back in the fold and he will never allow a sovereign palestinian state. now, what will he do with a majority arab population? with the head, then it -- minute has proposed -- .> that means jewish home party >> and that party is everywhere. what he has said is we will solve this problem of a potential apartheid in israel in the following way. we will allow certain enclaves where there are heavy

populations -- heavily populated by palestinians in the west bank, and those enclaves will be assigned by our military. be shelved or become one of those enclaves, so they are not part of the population of israel. israel, the rest of which is over 60% of the west bank, -- we will have shed 2 million palestinians from gaza, another 1.5 million that live in the cities and the more populated urban areas in , and you say there

are 50,000 palestinians, we will ila, them citizens, and vo apartheid. that is the plan. he might have to settle for less than 60% of the west bank, but essentially he thinks he can solve this problem, this demographic bomb, as it has been described, in this manner. >> you also expressed in an interview with "the jewish daily forward" in 2012 a concern that if israel continues on its which ipath in 2012, think is safe to say continues today, that israel not be able to exist for either another 50 years. could you explain what you mean? why could it not exist in the form that you described?

>> which form? >> the way you describe the four. >> certainly, it would not be existing as a jewish state, and neither as a democratic state. ?> because >> for the same reason south africa could not claim it is a democratic state. >> do you see israel as an apartheid state? >> if they were to implement ben plan, absolutely. i do not know if technically it is apartheid, but it would certainly not be a democratic state. it would lose its right to call itself a democracy. >> i wanted to ask about media coverage. in a comment to close "face the nation," sunday, the host bob

schieffer suggested that hamas forces israel to kill palestinian children. children middle east, find themselves and barked with a terrorist group, who uses children to build sympathy for their own cause. last week i found a quote by golda meyer, one of israel's early leaders, which might have been said yesterday -- we can forgive the arabs for killing our children, she said, but we can never forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. >> that was the host, the journalist bob schieffer on "face the nation." you knew prime minister golda meyer. >> yes, i did. i was not a friend of hers, but i knew her. i thought then and now that it is an embarrassingly

hypocritical statement. this statement was made by a woman who also said palestinians -- there are no palestinians. i am a policy in -- imho have any and. -- i am a palestinian. he did not want to kill palestinians, and that is what pains you so much, you not have to kill them. you can give them their rights, and you can and the occupation. to put the blame for the occupation and the killing of innocent that we are seeing in gaza now on the palestinians, why? they want a state of their own, would choose wanted and achieved -- what jews wanted and achieved? i find that less than admirable. there is something deeply hypocritical about that original statement, and repeating it on the air over here as a great

moral insight. henry siegman, the former head of the american jewish congress and the synagogue council of america. he recently wrote a piece for "political" wrote israel provoked this war. part democracynow.com for one. back, iran doma or ?ran said -- how effective stay with us. ♪ ak]sic bre

>> this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. just hours after it condemned the shelling of a u.n. school in gaza, the united states confirmed it was providing israel with fresh supplies of ammunition to replenish its stocks. meanwhile, u.s. congress is working to provide funding for the iron dome missile shield.

on monday, u.s. national security advisor susan rice reaffirmed the obama administration's support of iron dome at an event organized by the conference of presidents of major american jewish organizations. >> in recent weeks, and on average, more than 100 rockets a day have been fired at israel. iran doma has literally meant -- iron dome has meant the difference between life and death, and i am proud that president obama has helped to make it possible, and i am proud with his enthusiastic support the united states will more than double our investment in iron dome in in the u.s. media, news 2015. anchors, pundits and politicians have extolled the efficacy of the iron dome in deflecting the barrage of hamas rockets that put israeli lives at risk. >> iron dome is working. it has minimize casualties and fatalities. >> red flash as it intersects the rocket. this defense system is proving hugely successful. >> rockets were coming through

the sky. you see rockets come across the sky and interceptors come up and explode the rockets. >> the iron dome antimissile system did its job tracking the ,issiles, hitting them head-on destroying them. >> as we gazed overhead, we saw the interceptor missiles, the iron dome system, doing his job. at least three of those rockets shot down just a few moments ago . >> our next guest says exactly theopposite, suggesting iron dome is more of a quote "iron sieve." he has just written an article in the bulletin of the atomic scientists called, "the evidence that shows iron dome is not working." theodore postol joins us now from boston, massachusetts. he is a professor of science, technology and national security policy at the massachusetts institute of technology.

he is also a physicist and expert in missiles, missile defenses, and other aspects of modern warfare theodore postol, welcome to democracy now! civilians have died, yet you are saying iron dome is not responsible for the low casualty rate for israelis. why? >> well, the low casualty rates are due to an extremely effective system of early warning and sheltering. there are shelters all over byael that have been built the government. people have shelters in their homes by law, and there is a warning system that tells you that a rocket might be traveling in your direction. so, all you need to do is get and even iflter, the rocket hits your house, you will not be killed. now, if you do not get into a shelter and the rocket hits your house, and, for example, enters the room where you are sitting, you will be killed.

so, the sheltering and warning is very critical for saving lives. even the israeli government has made this point, because there are veterans who the israeli government does not recognize as deserving. they do not protect them. these are nomadic arab peoples. the israeli government argued against providing them with all of, simply because the people have to do, according to the israeli government, is lie down on the ground if they know that an artillery rocket might be coming in, and if they know that, -- do that, their chances of being a casualty will be reduced by 80%. that is the israeli government itself saying that. civile reason that this defense is so effective is first

the artillery rocket warheads to 20ot very large, 10 pounds, and the second thing is people have adequate warning to take shelter. that is extremely effective. let me give you an example of how dramatically effective early warning can be. in world war ii, during the bombing of london, there were v1 v2 rockets being used. v2 rockets hit without warning. cruise missile. it was called a buzz bomb because it had a pulse jet motor that made a buzzing sound. v1's did the same amount of damage, but the chances of being killed when it hit the ground where 60% lower.

reduction in --ualties is describable describable to the fact that a few hear the buzz bomb overhead, it's motor will turn off and dived to the ground, but you have seven seconds between the motor turning off and the warhead hitting, and just getting to the ground increases your chances of survival by a factor of 60%. >> so,o what is this -- what is the so-called iron dome doing? of theave videos contrails, the smoke trails left by the iron dome market -- motor, that indicate the geometry of engagement between the iran dome interceptors and the incoming artillery rockets. for example, if you see a contrast that ends with an

explosion of an iron dome, and the contrails is traveling parallel to earth, this means that the iron dome attempted to engage an artillery rocket from what it calls side -- from what it is called -- from what you call side-on geometry. the probability of destroying the artillery rocket warhead is essentially zero for all practical purposes. we also see iron dome's chasing artillery rockets from behind. the probability of destroying and a teller a rocket warhead from the geometry is also zero. occasionally, very occasionally, intercept iron dome during a vertical trajectory. way when i have

a nonzero chance of destroying the warhead. >> how often have these rockets been destroyed? >> we do not know exactly, but my guess is maybe 5% of the time had it might not even be that good. ?> 95% of the time they miss >> it looks that way, yes. >> if you're watching television in the united states, it is universally accepted that it is the reason for the low casualty rate for the israelis. >> let me remind you that in the 1991, thef interceptor rate of the patriot missile defense over israel and asdi arabia was reported 96%, even higher, and we analyzed the information that we obtain from television videos, and when we were finished, the among all informed

technical people was that the intercept rate of patriot was probably zero. so, people look at these explosions in the sky, they associate this light shall with successful intercepts, and what they are saying is the explosion of the iron dome warheads. >> u.s. defense secretary chuck hagel wrote a letter urging congress to approve israel's request for an additional $225 million in u.s. funding to strengthen the iron dome. what is the company that benefits, or the military contractors getting the money? >> the american company that will benefit the most -- companies in israel also benefit -- is the raytheon corporation, which is out here in massachusetts. >> so, that is where the money goes?

>> well, a large part of it will go. i have not been able to find any information on how much will be paid to raytheon for each intercept. >> do you think the money is well spent, professor postol? >> i would not spend money on an interceptor that has a near zero chance of intercepting and artillery rocket. the interceptor probably costs well in excess of $100,000 per interceptor, and it is maybe achieving a 5% rate. maybe. it could be lower. against rockets that cost $1000 or $500 each. the cost exchange issue is fine if you are israeli and the doctor -- dollars on not coming out of your pocket, but in the case of an american system, i would certainly not support such a system. >> how can there be such a distance between what you claim

and everybody else -- the israeli government says 85 percent to 95% success rate. is a lying? rocks that has been sleight-of-hand -- >> there has been a sleight-of-hand on the part of the israeli government. in all fairness, there are reasons that could be justified in warhead -- warfare. you could be lying because it into the population thinking they are defended, but it's a double-edged sword. if the people think they are being defended, they may not take shelter, and in november of 2012, three people were killed on a porch because they were out dome supposedly successfully intercepting. >> we will continue this conversation after the show. , thankor theodore postol you for joining us. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed

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