being an expert who believes that if this policy does not happen, the price of goods will increase . please, if you are interested , stay with us until the end of this discussion . thank you. you are watching the above, i want to start with mr. tavakli and directly and quickly go to the basic and main question of the program, why are you against the continuation of the currency policy of 2850 tomans? i am at your service . see, the issue is that independent of the number 28 to 500, this policy of fixing the land price in one number. this

it has been repeated many times in the islamic republic and my works have been seen. fortunately, in the previous series, which was number 4002, a friend named dr. amir sayah, who was also one of your old colleagues , illustrated this and made a film called the documentary 420. he depicted the events that happened in 1996 and 1977. we are witnessing that after 140. one, the removal of 420 tomans dollars, which happened after a while and was replaced by 28 to 500, the same events are repeating themselves. we are hassan khani , let's lay a foundation for talking and arguing, so that if we reach an understanding on those principles, we can move forward with the next discussions . you see, the issue is that there are different components in the economy, and it is definitely not possible to solve all the problems together. we all want inflation to go down

. i, as a citizen, would like energy rates to be low. i definitely want the dollar to be a thousand tomans. i want all of this. i definitely want employment to be at its highest level. can be solved at the same time, the answer is definitely no in the world where we had the issue of inflation after the story of corona, the economies of the world are involved in both inflation and their employment decreased, and to some extent stagnation, but clearly. from the economic rulers, who are mainly the central bank and the governments, they say that our number one priority is inflation, so we accept the recession, the decrease in employment, and the rest of its negative effects, but the inflation rate must be controlled first, after it reaches a stability, then the relevant numbers it seems that there , for example, below two and a half percent are considered. now we will go to the employment stagnation and solve the rest. regarding the issue of land price, i think we should clarify this. let's see if there are any rates for us.

it is important to solve the problem that we want to bring benefits to the people and help the people in this difficult economic situation. it is important for us that the production sector can actually be active and increase employment, so that we don't have so much unemployment. for my part, i would like to answer this question first. i would like your excellency and mr. dr. hasanani to answer this question as well. i think that regarding the exchange rate, priority should be given to a single rate because all the subsequent classes were multi-rate. it has, including rent, including corruption by the way, the sentence is reduction of employment, because many people abandon their normal work, they go to the page of dollars, coins , coins, and the like, all of which are the consequences of multiple rates. now, according to you, it is 28 and 500, because you compared it with 420 and said like it is working, can you give more examples for the viewers, if you have it, it is very clear, now the government is giving 28,500 dollars to some of these goods, for

the discussion of dairy products, for example , it is actually giving it to livestock feed, but we are seeing what we have in the market. let's say that these prices are almost the same as the free dollar market they eat, and it is enough for you to compare 5 years ago or 6 years ago or even the global prices of red meat, white meat, and many other products. . it is traded, on the other hand, even though the government has quotas , for example, it distributes red meat more often in maidin fields , but the volume is very small, and if you look at it , some of them also buy it in other markets, in fact, at the same price. they sell higher, that's why when we look at the price index and inflation, an example it's even easier to say that in 2018, when we removed the merchant supply rate, the inflation index did not change much, the reason was that the prices of many goods

had stabilized in the market, maybe 3 or 4 of the very special goods that had price jumps, for example, edible oil and finally, we saw a jump for them, but the prices of other products did not change much . i want to say that this does not reach the people effectively. now if the next question is what should we do instead, i will definitely ask you about this. may it continue. what is your reason? in the name of allah , the most merciful . dear viewers , i would like to congratulate you on the 10th anniversary of imam reza (peace be upon him) and hazrat masoumeh (peace be upon them), and to serve the dear people , i hope that god willing, the blessings of these two prophets will shower blessings on our dear people and

the country will progress. my dear, let me tell you something about the doctor's orders . see, when we want to talk about economic policies, we have to answer a few questions. let's say how many cases have been experienced by a failed politician, and i don't know, so-and-so dear friend made a documentary, because he made a documentary, so all the words said in that documentary must be true, and let's leave this aside and face this reality. which is the result of the preliminary private function even if 10 times a policy. it was implemented and it was implemented unsuccessfully. maybe the reason for the failure of that policy is the way it is implemented, because all policies are dependent on the path of implementation, so let's not be too hasty in actually judging

the basis on which we want to start. let's say that anyone brought any suggestion, anyone any fact. he suggested a policy, you should answer four questions and in fact , let's criticize his answers. what exactly is the problem in removing width 28 and 500, as well as removing four and 200, which we already talked about a lot , where is the problem ? let's discuss where this problem is. the two policies you proposed are the same policy that the doctor said, removing the width of 2850. exactly what mechanism will solve the problem ? the third question is the implications and effects of your proposal and policy. the only way is the solution optimal ? there is no better solution than this. with worse negative consequences, with

more positive consequences. if we reach a consensus and talk about these four questions, it seems to me that we will reach an agreement and reach a place where we can actually continue or delete 2850. to conclude , why do you agree with 28 and 500? because no one has answered these four questions. what exactly is the problem of 28 and 500, mr. tavakli, i am greeting you, mr. doctor, thank you very much for actually framing the discussion, this will help us to move on the right path. let's get to the answer and this problem is very clear, the point that exists. we have an asset , we have an economic parameter called the exchange rate, which is currently in the market at the rate of 56,700 tomans, 58,000 tomans , and based on this rate, many goods are also priced, from cars to imported parts to materials. first of all, different companies

are using the multi-rate of the dollar as the basis of the price, and the fact that we have another place in another shop in another part of the market , we give this at a different rate . because you are an economist yourself arbitrage opportunity is completely clear to you, it means someone buys it in the cheaper market and sells it in the more expensive market. sometimes this is very direct, it means it is a standard product that is bought here and sold there. please, how soon did you get your answer, mr. hassan khani, does that mean we can have a dialogue with each other at the same time ? no, we can have a dialogue with each other

, but i don't want to bother you much , mr. doctor. the rate policy of the central bank is the rate that is in the market in the alleys. it can be exchanged. it's true . it's a fact. we can't see this fact. no, yes, i understand. i'm waiting because the sound is delayed . i want your sentence to be concluded. i'll answer later . well, now that this fact exists, now that this fact exists, you, this fact, this rate. you want to move the policy of the central bank towards that market rate or you want to bring that market rate down. in both cases , please tell me the solution of the mechanism to solve this problem, mr. doctor

the answer is very clear, if it is from a single rate, it means that we have only one rate in the economy, these two rates will move towards me. let's say that number is not 28 and 50, not 42,200 tomans and not 59,000 tomans, that is one number. there is something between these that the market will determine, which may determine this number today, for example, 51,000 tomans, which means that when we remove that pressure from the width of 42,200 tomans and 28 tomans, that demand will come to the market at the supply market rate. if he does, a part of that demand will be removed altogether and it will cause the demand to decrease. on the other hand, because the others also know that all that currency has entered the market , do you know which part will be removed ? if you are in fact, yes, i would like to ask you if you are in favor of

asking a businessman. now your field of work is the stock market, but you must also be in contact with traders . ask a businessman who, mr. trader, do you think, if the offer is free, it means that we are 28 and if we delete 500, you think it's better for yourself than mobile and car do you import, or do you import gold, or do you import flour, do you know what will answer you ? a businessman is naturally looking for profit, my priority is to import flour and speed, mr. doctor, you see , a businessman is a businessman looking for his profit, you are a businessman, and naturally, we should let him do his job, mr. doctor, not only about being a king, but also about the central bank , about the banking system, that is, the banking system. it should make a profit. if you read the literature, which you must have read, they say that an economy is healthy if the bank makes a profit in that economy. that means the bank should take deposits and profit from here give, on the other hand, lend and get the interest. these

rates must be equilibrium rates and the bank will make a profit. if your economy moves in a direction where this businessman, who is the bank here, does not make a profit, your economy will surely be doomed to failure. we also have this discussion, maybe you will understand that sir, if we do this pricing and, for example , free the market, some goods are not economically viable . will the government come and do this with a preferential rate? the answer is no there is another solution, because your second question was discussed, and it came back that if you do not agree, what is your solution to solve this problem ? it has been successful and it is being mentioned in policy books, this experience of iran is being taught, that is, i want to say that we are not behind in all fields, in some fields. we really have valuable experiences for the world, that is the discussion of the targeting of subsidies, followed by the payment of

cash subsidies. now the government wants to benefit the people reach it instead of giving this benefit in the form of a price subsidy, i.e. a product that costs 50,000 tomans or 45,000 tomans for 28,500 tomans, sell the dollar at the market price . give the benefit you want to the market in the form of a price subsidy. fortunately, the system leaves people's pockets. it is also available, it means that now the government has all the people's bank accounts to pay the subsidies, now what is the point, maybe you will say that it does not matter, the government wants to finally give the benefit to the people with a benefit of 28 tomans, instead of giving, for example, money, the same dollar. 28 give them the money to buy the goods. my answer is that despite the fact that these two ways seem to be the same from the point of view of mathematics, they are not really the same. there are also those who use that money , for example, this restaurant in the street

needs meat or rice to do its work , it needs other goods, and it actually gets it at that subsidized price , but the price in the shop actually leaves it in the menu for the customer, it is not based on that number at all it is based on the price itself or we had many cases that i think were experienced in the previous government. i now emphasize that you should watch that documentary. more than that, i want to say that it was documented there, this was the story of a person who used imported sugar at the rate of 420, in his own words. it does and does export candy at the market price of 15,000, for example, and then it becomes a sample exporter, that is, the government's goal is that the subsidized price of sugar reaches the household to support the household, but some parts of it are used. they mix snow with water because the businessman is looking for profit he does and in fact he makes money and sells and makes a profit and the profit only comes to that person. pay attention . this is the benefit of a special person. this is the discussion that

i want to pay attention to. well, mr. asenkhani, let's not skip a discussion, an important question. you are unanswered. how many reasons do you have for saying that we should move you with this order for the time being and for how many years ? it seems to me that they will never succeed, they cannot join the execution. defensible mode to remove width the points that mr. doctor said are highly critical, so your only reason is that if we have a preferential rate, we give it because we want to do justice. let's do

it in order to be able to defend the people's well-being and people's livelihood. mr. bigoran, you see, in the economy, there is a difference between rate and price . there is a big difference. what is the difference? you can get us for that, you can get him you can subsidize the reduction of welfare that is created for the consumer, but when you move the price of the currency or the exchange rate , all the economic relations will not be moved according to the land price. you can say that because i changed the exchange rate, so i will give cash subsidies to the people for 5 times the price of goods . besides, mr. tavakoli, i am surprised by you since 1989 that in those books you mention the success of iran. they are teaching, did you hear the criticism of what happened in rome in 2009 until today

, look at the year 2009 when yaran was targeted by the government to the people. fish 45. the dollar used to give subsidies. how many dollars can you give subsidies to people? the price of a refrigerator in 1995 was actually, for example, 5 million tomans . this 5 million tomans was probably equal to a worker's salary for one or two months . buy the side refrigerator . see the work of mr. rafai. there is a detailed discussion about the welfare effect of policies in the economy . now, i don't know if your field of study is economics or not, but if it is economics, please pay attention to the fact that cash subsidies are expensive. making and paying cash subsidies does not necessarily preserve the welfare of the household in this process, and definitely

if you ask my people, even people who have no economic studies, they will admit that if you raise the price of land, we will give cash subsidies to the people for that. definitely, people's welfare will decrease not only in that first period but also in the following periods and in the following periods . for how many years this policy of preferential width should continue and now we are at 28,500 tomans , how long should we continue with 28,500 tomans? look, i am with

you for the future as long as there is an economic war and as long as there is an economic embargo in the country, we are inevitable. we should provide a certain amount of preferential rate for the people. for basic goods , this rate can be adjusted according to the inflation, according to the realities of the economy, but the principle of preferential rate, the principle of payment of preferential rate cannot be applied in our country because the difference in the price elasticity of demand for goods different cannot be removed, mr. tavakli, a very important point , mr. hassan khani points out, it is the issue of people's livelihood and the issue of inflation, which they say, if this width is 285 let's do hazb this donation, which has a serious effect on people's livelihood and inflation, how will it be compensated? first, let me state very clearly that i am a citizen and in the world of citizenship, i want the dollar to become a thousand tomans, why 28,500 tomans first ? if we are arguing here that there should be a single rate, the exchange rate and friends

infer this to an increase in the exchange rate, which i completely disagree with . the number reaches 58 thousand tomans, if the dollar becomes a single rate, the equilibrium number of the single rate in the economy will appear. it is something between these two numbers, maybe that number is, for example, 48. it delivers to the people at a cheaper price, which i confirm. yes, the government delivers some of the goods to the people at a lower price, including bread, including energy including some expensive goods that have become known as basic goods, does the government benefit from this? it cannot reach the people in any other way. i want to emphasize this point that yes , there is a way. now, the government 's number can be multiplied and

divided. the dollar is selling 28 to 500 goods per year . mr. governor of the central bank said that last year it was 18 billion dollars or the pr of 18 billion dollars . let's see how much the number can be divided by, for example, 50 tomans. this is that if we explain the same money to the people in cash, pay attention , it doesn't make a difference to the government, why doesn't it make a difference , because it is finally paying 28 dollars and the government is spending, for example, 18 billion dollars, now instead of 280 tomans, it is 50 tomans in the market. for sale or 48 tomans sell ​​it in the market at a price that cannot be sold in the single price market , and take the profit without going to the treasury in a separate fund, the same targeted fund of yarna . and in the same way, he should explain to the people, be sure to give cash, what is going to happen , the prices will definitely increase on the other side, after all, the product that the government has is selling at 28 tomans per dollar, if

it is imported now at 50 tomans per dollar, the price will definitely increase, but be sure. the sum of this increase in the consumption basket of the householder will be much less compared to the cash subsidy that the government can give , because the price in the market will decrease at all. it can be found because when we determine the price , the consumption is controlled. for example, in your normal situation , you may have to consume 100 units of a product . when the price goes up a little, you do 95 units . this decrease in demand actually helps in this. let me tell you about my government's experience of the last one or two years . it has been asked several times with non-scientific methods. now i don't want to say a word that, god forbid, will hurt my friends, because this is the national media and everyone can hear it. he wanted to help , but he couldn't do it. do it

giving the poses to namoya, sir the people between here and the card they draw say they want two loaves of bread, three loaves of loaves, four loaves of loaves, we are sure how many loaves of loaves have been bought, but the market changed it in a very short time. i don't know if you prepare loaves for your own home. i do it myself to find out about the floor of the market . when you want to go to the bread place and buy it, then your side gives you stone instead of navad or bigger bread , but because there is a defined bread model in the machine , what does that mean? that is, he is telling the government that i have consumed 3 units of flour, of which he has consumed one unit of flour, and those two units at the end of the month. it can be collected into 5 sacks and sold at a free price

to a sweet shop. another example where the government wanted to prevent corruption or help but failed to do so is what became known as rented gold. people must listen, but maybe it can be helpful to express it in the national media. it was like that we had the discussion for several reasons. due to the presence of dollars, many exporters are not willing to sell their dollars at the rate that the government says. tomeni is expensive, from labor to raw materials and finally, the central bank came and made a decision and said, "okay, now that you don't do this , you won't give me dollars. do something. give me this gold, if someone from the place of his dollars. gold will enter the country. i agree that instead of fulfilling the territorial obligation, you should deliver the dollar . this

was a very beautiful and meaningful speech for merchants and businessmen. on the other hand, since gold was not subject to pricing, it could be sold in the market and the gold in they sell it in the market , which is practically equivalent to the same dollar, for example, 50 tomans. let me tell you this last tick to conclude that some time has passed since this story. everyone was happy. after a while, they realized that the amount of gold that is entering the country is very strange . stranger, we don't see so much gold on the floor of the market, tracking losses. to understand that there are a number of people who rent gold in the tehran market, they go to a number of exporters and say, sir, come to the border and present this gold as imported gold, in exchange for your land, the dollar will remain with you. also, keep the border, gold was expressed as an export width, one person would borrow his gold, then lend it to the next person, and since the gold is nameless, the same cycle would repeat itself. in fact, one unit of gold crossed the border 10 times. it was entered without the gold actually

entering the country. due to the good actions taken by the government, the exchange rate of wheat imports has decreased a lot, and now there have been violations that are actually being carried out by the plan executive, but for the sake of expediency, for the reasons they have , naturally, they are slowly dealing with these things. and reduce this the joints will definitely take action, which is not the subject of our discussion at all, mr. doctor, i

do n't want to ask just one question. this is the minimum statistic that i have, very well, now a statistical authority should confirm what we have followed up with these numbers, the figures have not been achieved . you can ask the person in charge of the project. 2850 let's go back to 2850 , see on january 8, 1401, mr. farzin came on tv and said, sir, i want politics. execute

28 and 500 to basic goods. first of all, this sentence is wrong . this sentence is incorrect. anyone who is familiar with stabilization policy knows that this is not called stabilization policy. when you give a preferential rate to a group of goods to a selected group of goods, it is not called stabilization policy. it is politics. stabilization is another thing. now let's go back to the same policy that mr. farzin announced. if mr. farzand wants to stick to this policy that he announced and actually wants to act according to the promise he made , he should make some arrangements for this path first. his arrangement is to come and say yes, sir i want to sell this group of goods in a certain period of time , just as mr. bozor, installed, this is a correct point, mr. bozor, we cannot act on one rate in the same way indefinitely

. we must have flexible policy. yes, but because of the logic of the era, the government should come to work and prevent the inflation jumps in different ways, in fact, stop the imbalance of the banks, stop the budget deficit , so that we can reach a stability and a peace. he talked about the horizontal policy . well, until july 1402, we didn't know at all which of these hss are going to get 28 and 500. so the start of this policy is the right start. it didn't exist, which means it had some defects. the point that mr. tavakoli says is that mr. central bank came and said, "well , i don't know. you don't want to bring gold. i will buy gold from you. this is the weak point of central bank. if an exporter exports according to the instructions for clearing the land obligation that in mehr 2017 , it was actually announced that the exporters should return their supply to the official economic cycle with a certain price, so do not consider these as the weaknesses of the central bank, considering that

this is actually the efficiency, not the inefficiency of the policy , the policy is another thing, another thing.