state of the nation starts now. i'll also be joined by my most intellectual panel this evening. gb news is senior political commentator nigel nelson, and the journalist and conservative peer lord goodman. as you know, as always, i want to hear from you. it's a crucial part of the programme. email me. mail blog @gbnews. com but now it's what you've all been waiting for. the news bulletin with tatiana sanchez. >> jacob. thank you. the top stories this hour. sir keir starmer has told gb news there'll be no tax cuts under a labour government until the economy is back on the path to growth. the labour leader says that while he wants to keep the tax burden as low as possible, he also wants to ensure that living standards improve. he said british people deserve to know that future generations will enjoy better opportunities, but that can only be achieved with tangible steps.

>> after we, have said we will raise taxes, we've set out what we will raise and what we'll spend the money on. so what you did hear this morning is that we're going to get rid of the tax break for private schools and use that money for the teachers we need in our state secondary schools. we did here is we're going to get rid of the non—dom status properly and use that money towards reducing reducing waiting lists . the tax reducing waiting lists. the tax burden on people is as high as it's ever been under this government, you know, this has been the tax rising government of all time . of all time. >> in other news, around 16,000 households in devon have been told to boil their water before drinking it for another week after a parasite was found in a key reservoir. the uk health security agency says 22 people are confirmed to have become sick , and as many as 70 other sick, and as many as 70 other cases of diarrhoea and vomiting are under investigation. the tory mp for totnes and south

devon criticised south west water for what he said was slow and poor communication. the company has apologised for the outbreak and is offered £100 of compensation to those affected . compensation to those affected. hospital mortuaries in england allowed bodies of deceased patients to decompose because of a shortage of freezers, inspectors have found. the human tissue authority told how inadequate storage facilities at some nhs trusts and lack of freezer space means some bodies have been left for too long at unsuitable temperatures . unsuitable temperatures. official hta guidance says bodies should be moved into frozen storage after 30 days in fridges, or before , depending on fridges, or before, depending on the condition of the body. the hospitals criticised in the reports following inspections in 2022 and last year, said systems have since been improved and teenagers could be recruited to help plug a shortage of train drivers under new proposals put forwards today . the government forwards today. the government is asking for views on lowering the minimum age for drivers from

20 to 18, which it says would help build resilience across the railway. the average age of a driver is 48 and the workforce is projected to shrink over the coming years, with many due to retire. it's hoped the proposal will set thousands of young people on track to a career in transport. for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts. now it's back to . jacob. to. jacob. >> welcome back to state of the nafion >> welcome back to state of the nation sir keir starmer set out the labour party's pitch to the people today with six key pledges. despite the delivery of a man with a plan. the plan itself leaves an aftertaste of repetition and bland deja vu. delivering economic stability with tough spending rules so we can grow our economy and keep taxes, inflation and mortgages as low as possible . as low as possible. >> economic stability . now this

>> economic stability. now this is the very foundation of economic growth . tough spending economic growth. tough spending rules. yes, to keep inflation, taxes and mortgages low . because taxes and mortgages low. because if you lose control of the economy , it's working. people economy, it's working. people who will pay the price. stability is change and that's why it has to be our first step. >> it all sounds rather similar to its predecessor in tony blair's 1997 manifesto, so the priority must be stable . low priority must be stable. low inflation conditions for long term growth by spending wisely and taxing fairly. government can help tackle the problems. another of sir keir's flagship pledges is to tackle the other most pressing issue facing britain today, stopping the boats by launching a new border security command with new specialist investigators and using counter—terror powers to smash the criminal boat gangs as brilliantly highlighted by the spectator's james heale. there

is very little deviation from the bits of the current conservative government's plans that haven't actually worked. in the absence of an alternative to rwanda . there are no real plans rwanda. there are no real plans to cut migration numbers . ending to cut migration numbers. ending the scourge of people trafficking is of vital importance from both an economic and moral point of view. this is not a separate issue to the unsustainable levels of immigration to which labour has provided no new solution to tackle the cost of living , sir tackle the cost of living, sir keir pledges to set up great british energy, publicly owned clean power company, paid for by a windfall tax on oil and gas gains. the problem here is the same as ever with labour policy . same as ever with labour policy. it is a short term solution. a windfall tax is a one off bill on energy profits, which does not provide a sustainable source of funding for publicly owned provider and therefore cannot hold any guarantee of working in the long term . as the late great the long term. as the late great baroness thatcher put it, garments traditionally do make a financial mess. >> they always run out of other people's money. it's quite a characteristic of them . characteristic of them. >> they always run out of other people's money. those words

should be engraved in stone across the country, perhaps on an headstone of repute . along an headstone of repute. along with blair's pledges to tackle anti—social behaviour, education, education, education style blueprints for 6500 new teachers paid for through taxing private schools. the primary takeaway from sir keir's proclamation to the people is the clear cut absence of originality. radicality ambition and vision. however, it's clear that the labour leader is taking notes from a labour election winner , sir tony blair, rather winner, sir tony blair, rather than the most drastic of losers. his old boss, one mrjeremy corbyn. it's also worth noting that while offering a watered down version of blairism , sir down version of blairism, sir keir just this week met and negotiated with trade union barons the reports claiming he has already been pressuring ed into scrapping certain plans. following these meetings is what keir starmers labour party seems to be offering is a diluted rehash of blairism and recent tory policy , while taking refuge tory policy, while taking refuge in the pockets of trade union

bosses. in the pockets of trade union bosses . as ever. let me know bosses. as ever. let me know your thoughts, mailmogg@gbnews.com. i'm very pleased to be joined now by an old friend of the programme, the pr tycoon and former labour councillor, kevin craig, kevin , councillor, kevin craig, kevin, first of all, you can be bothered to dress properly before speaking to an audience. why does he dress like a hobo? you. >> you were lying down in parliament with your slippers on. it went viral. >> i didn't have my slippers on. >> i didn't have my slippers on. >> you might as well have. you might have had a pipe out at the despatch box. >> put a tie on. you are. is this is this very cool and trendy? >> you are in no position. >> you are in no position. >> is this a new poll on standards? >> is this a new. you were in your jim jams? is this >> is this a new. you were in yourjim jams? is this a new box? >> is box? >>isthb box? >> is this a new cool and trendy keir starmer? hang on, hang on. >> i tell you, i'm not sure i would have come, jacob, if i'd known i had to sit through that at the start. okay, so i was there today when keir starmer gave his speech. >> did you fall asleep? >> did you fall asleep? >> i thought it was. i found it very moving, very hopeful. some of the other speakers there

today included with your monologue, didn't mention to people the chief executive of boots saying that he a friend of david cameron, welcomes the proposals being put forward by laboun proposals being put forward by labour. and with all due respect , you know, and i want to really sort of, you know, always stay polite with you. it's very rich. some of the things you just said there, when your party, you've beenin there, when your party, you've been in charge for 14 years, growth is i honestly jacob, i can't come again if you don't let me speak, because i will. i will, but the economy. your friend liz truss cost the families that i've been speaking to in ipswich and suffolk central across recent weeks. hundreds of pounds. central across recent weeks. hundreds of pounds . and with all hundreds of pounds. and with all due respect, the british public don't think you're in a position to lecture us. >> well, we're here to discuss labour party policy. indeed. and it's fine for you to make party political points about things have happened in the past. of course it is. and we could go back to where you started it. of course i did. we could go back to the economic legacy that we had in 2010, when the country was bust and there was no money left. but i think that's boring for voters, because what we want to talk about, i hope, is what

the labour party's promising. now, i don't think this is a stupid electoral strategy, but they're not promising very much, are they? that's very cautious. it's very. >> jacob, have you read this today yet ? today yet? >> i've seen this. yes. >> okay. so this is a summary because we know you're busy. okay this these are the first steps. but these are to give a flavour to the british people who by the way, kevin, this is motherhood and apple pie. >> they've lost. who doesn't want to deliver economic stability? who doesn't want to cut nhs waiting times? who doesn't want to launch a new border security command? that's all happening. you failed great british. >> come on now, listen, i watched you earlier today. i think it was when mr farage. right? yes. now i think i know it was. you know, almost shakespearean. you know, that the affection there is between you both, he reminded us. he reminded us that between 1066 and 2010. okay, your guys and girls have let more people in illegally than in that period. >> not illegally. not illegally. illegally, actually . yeah. illegally, actually. yeah. >> so legally illegal. but you haven't got a grip. hold your

horses. you haven't got a grip. >> the bulk of that migration ian was prior to 2019, before we'd left the european union because because the labour government would not apply the restraints to people coming from eastern europe, as you know perfectly well, he told you, i'm well aware of what he said the two years. but the idea you've beenin two years. but the idea you've been in charge the last two years and we can't duck around that. >> the last one of the things i was really good, honestly, just to say a new border security command, i loved it today. the people with special forces, military experience, experience in the police who are endorsing his plan is really heartening because people do care about always find people to endorse your plans. >> it's really a question of whether there is any didn't under jeremy corbyn, because i'll tell you this, i was i was at the lunch for business supporters after the jeremy corbyn defeat. >> it was it was a poor afternoon. you were supporting jeremy corbyn, labour party in my life. yeah. okay. >> so you supported jeremy corbyn, now you're supporting keir starmer. keir starmer

supported jeremy corbyn, didn't he? >> liz truss was your girl. >> liz truss was your girl. >> well i supported boris johnson. are you actually a conservative? >> why don't you join reform? >> why don't you join reform? >> i am, but this isn't about me. it's about the labour party. let's have a clip of what keir starmer said to christopher hope about immigration. >> number three, launch a new border security command. you're not saying stop the boat. >> nobody but nobody should be making that journey across the channelin making that journey across the channel in a small boat. i think that we can smash the vile gangs that we can smash the vile gangs that are running this trade, that are running this trade, that are running this trade, that are making a fortune putting people into boats. gimmicks such as rwanda, which cost a fortune and removes less than 1% of those arriving by small boat, is not going to work. i want to tackle the very real problem with a serious response . response. >> this is exactly what the government has been trying and this hasn't actually worked. because without a deterrent for people to come, all the command and control, all the money given to the french, all the extra resources hasn't stopped people coming. and there's no plan to

stop the boats. the conservative government, which you personify. >> now, tell me about a policy i'm going to tell you. >> i was trying to tell me why you don't like the conservatives no, i will tell you. labour policy. no defence of labour policy. >> defence. i was about to explain precisely that. right. labour policy is to work with our european partners and move resources. let me finish because this is really relevant. move resources into new officials, big recruitment to deal with the criminal gangs. and we did not. how could we work with our european partners? when your friend liz truss said, are the french friend or foe, are you having a laugh? >> we've been working very closely with the french. we've been giving tens of millions of pounds to the french, the belgians and the dutch have been cooperating in stopping the small boats, actually, rather more effectively than the french. this has all been happening . well, i would say happening. well, i would say without rwanda. how do you stop them? what is the policy in rwanda? >> what is rwanda other than a gimme more? what more of you and your colleagues have been than asylum seekers native to rwanda?

it's what keir set out today which is already being done. >> there is nothing new in that. >> there is nothing new in that. >> there is nothing new in that. >> the government has not deployed the resources, the money and the focus, and keir starmer has made a career out of tackling serious criminals. >> that's what he did well, defending them as well from time to time. perfectly reasonable thing for a lawyer to do. but it didn't just attack them when he and he attacked a civil servant. >> the cps, he prosecuted more journalists than were being prosecuted in iran at the time. >> he loved prosecuting journalists. >> you can't have a ding dong with me about being political. when you do, you do that sort of thing. i'm just telling you that the man was made a knight by the by the queen for his services at the cps, cracking on crime and l, the cps, cracking on crime and i, who grew up surrounded by crime on a south london council estate, can't wait. i really hope he gets a chance to show the british people that we haven't managed to get to is that labour is for sensible electoral reasons, being very cautious and not actually announcing proper policies. >> this is it's promising. >> this is it's promising. >> this is inspiring. >> this is inspiring. >> this is inspiring. >> this wouldn't inspire the lettuce that outlasted liz truss

i >> -- >> see, but you have to say that, jacob, because, you know, because there's nothing in it. but i don't understand. and you people are not listening like kevin. >> i think this is unlike you because what i honestly what i don't understand is why don't you don't admit that this is, in fact, the intelligent electoral strategy? you're ahead in the polls. why give hostages to fortune? >> also, we haven't got the books. we haven't got sight of the books. the economy. >> that's what harold wilson said. no, no, that's back to the 1960s. >> all in there. and i'll tell you, we need hope in this country. >> kevin is taking us back to the 1960s, but it's always a pleasure to have him on the programme coming up, can you guess how much the covid inquiry is costing you every day and for what? plus a petrol car is the newest endangered species

told. well, we've been talking about starmer and the labour party,

andifs starmer and the labour party, and it's extraordinarily exciting . six point plan. and exciting. six point plan. and mary says starmer is not blair mach two because he's so bland and boring . starmer is more and boring. starmer is more miliband the second. buyers beware . sir bob says if the beware. sir bob says if the private schools are forced to close , the children will go to close, the children will go to state schools. that will cause more costs , which will probably more costs, which will probably be more than the extra tax raised. just the usual smoke and mirrors from starmer. well, bob, i think you're absolutely right on that. i think they haven't worked out the cost revenue properly and robert says the only part of starmer today that i believe is that they won't lower taxes. yes, i fear that's likely to be the truth. the covid inquiry is getting out of control in both cost and time scale. it's now on track to become the most expensive inquiry in history, with a daily costs reaching an average of £300,000 for the last year. and that's of your money. it's now projected to cost a total of £200 million. not be a surprise. if we were to set up a post inquiry inquiry into why it costs so much pointlessly to

pontificate about whether we lock down early enough . but it lock down early enough. but it was practically doomed from the start because its terms of reference too broad and seemingly missed the most fundamental question of all were lockdowns necessary or proportionate? well, i'm joined now by my most intellectual panel now by my most intellectual panel, gb news senior political commentator nigel nelson, and the journalist and conservative peer lord goodman. nigel £300,000 a day. i mean, this is a self sucking lollipop for the lawyers, isn't it? >> well , except that i lawyers, isn't it? >> well, except that i mean, pubuc >> well, except that i mean, public inquiries are expensive. so i mean, the saville inquiry was one 185 million, although that did go on for 12 years. we hope this one won't go on for quite so long. this is the, you know, probably the biggest event in all our lives. and it seems right to me to hold a proper pubuc right to me to hold a proper public inquiry, don't do it on the cheap. make it wide ranging, come up with the answers we need to. >> but other countries have done their inquiries much faster and come out with the basic recommendations. shouldn't we be

learning from that? because by the time this inquiry is reported , it will have lost its impact. >> well, we'll get the first report towards the end of the yean report towards the end of the year, and so and there'll be other reports that reports till the final 1 in 2026, which is about right. the whole point is to learn lessons from this, that all we had, we were using the same mitigations they've been using for the last 700 years, right at the beginning until the vaccine came along. so it's social distancing, lockdowns, masks , quarantine for masks, quarantine for travellers. yes. an italian word from the black death. it goes back. it goes back a long way. so we have to find out if we can do this sort of thing better. should this come at us again? >> well, you see, this one worries me that better seems to be to lock down earlier, whereas actually lockdown caused as many problems as it solved and it was a terrible failure to differentiate, doing enormous damage to children who didn't need to be locked down in the first place. >> well, you're on your point about lockdown. there are arguments either way. i'd like to pick up what nigel just said

about trying to learn lessons to make things better, which i think what you should be trying to do, whether you think there was too much lockdown or too little. my query about it is the same as yours. if you want an inquiry to find out how to do things better, why can't you do what sweden did and have an inquiry that lasts? i think it was two years in sweden's case. nice and shorter. lessons learned inquiry. if you want a kind of circus that's looking at who is to blame, do that afterwards and take a long time overit afterwards and take a long time over it because you think that's necessary. >> vie it doesn't really matter who was to blame that people were dealing with something they'd never come across before and were doing their best? inevitably >> how you can possibly say that? i mean, we love inquiries about who was to blame. the iraq inquiry was about. i mean, just correct me if i'm wrong. it's about the third or fourth into iraq . it's about the third or fourth into iraq. it's part of about the third or fourth into iraq . it's part of the way we iraq. it's part of the way we seem to do things here. we're a centralised country. the media and mps mix in westminster. we're very london focused and we have this culture that likes

blame. >> but iraq was a specific decision made by a government, whereas covid was something that hit the world. and inevitably when it first hit, people didn't know, for example, that ventilators weren't going to be particularly useful. >> i wonder if that's a bit of argumentation. of course, iraq is a specific war and covid is a specific event , but hey, specific event, but hey, government's got to make decisions about both. so you end up with these inquiries. >> so perhaps we should now know the number of inquiries that we have. reduce them. now the bloody sunday inquiry was different because that was needed for part of the peace process, for reconciliation , we process, for reconciliation, we had an inquiry into the global financial crisis, which was done by joint lords and commons committee chaired by andrew, now lord tarry with the archbishop of canterbury, on it. it did its work very quickly . it came up work very quickly. it came up with some proposals for reforming banking, looking to the future, wasn't that a rather better model than this very heavily lawyered approach ?

heavily lawyered approach? >> well, i mean, it depends which way you think is best to do the inquiry. which way you think is best to do the inquiry . vie, lady do the inquiry. vie, lady hallett thought this was the best way of doing it, it goes further than things like lockdowns. and so on, because we're talking about bereaved families want to know what happened to their loved ones, whether things, whether the restrictions on them was necessary in the first place. so it is so wide ranging. it's not just about about lessons learned, it's about actually giving some kind of closure to people who who lost people. >> i just wonder whether if you give these things to judges to do, they will always involve lots and lots of lawyers, because that's what judges do. and if it isn't the best way of getting to, to the truth, well, the counterargument, i suppose, is that mps are too partisan to do inquiries properly. >> i don't agree with that. i think it's a shame if you're going to take the process of inquiry away from westminster, as it will give mps even less to do on a cross—party basis, and it's likely to make them even more partisan.

>> it's a pity we didn't learn from tory, because tory did. the first major parliamentary inquiry , i think, since the inquiry, i think, since the marconi inquiry, because that had been politicised for obvious reasons, and that bringing it back to, admittedly a political inquiry, but one of cross—party consent and eminence , this consent and eminence, this seemed to me a much cheaper and better way of doing something thatis better way of doing something that is of its nature, political. >> depends who's doing it. i mean, most of your viewers won't know or have heard of andrew tory, but he's a pretty depoliticised in the best sense of the word dry, impartial figure. and i've no doubt he did his inquiry very well. >> well, thank you very much to my panel. now, we're joined earlier than usual by the great patrick christys who has spent today in cambridge with our former home secretary, suella braverman. >> not here to get into a fight. i'm not here to debate necessarily. i'm coming with a sincere intention to engage . but sincere intention to engage. but it is quite surprising that the

college authorities have allowed this kind of , college authorities have allowed this kind of, occupation to college authorities have allowed this kind of , occupation to take this kind of, occupation to take place. >> what was what would be your your your main question to some of the individuals? >> i'm really keen to hear what your message is to israel . your message is to israel. >> well, the two of them have been visiting the pro—palestine encampment that has sprung up at the university and trying to find out just what these protesters want. and i'm joined now by patrick himself. patrick, this must have been a fascinating visit. how did the pinkos students bearded sandal wearing cope with our one and only forthright, clear thinking? suella? >> well , it's suella? >> well, it's a suella? >> well , it's a really, really >> well, it's a really, really fascinating interaction, actually, because suella braverman is probably public enemy number one to these people. all right. not just for this, but also for her, backing and pushing of a much tougher rwanda plan than the one we've got now. these are the kind of people that make tiktok videos about us slamming us. so we thought as a channel, all right, then we will present you with

then we will present you with the woman that you absolutely hate. this is your opportunity as young hardcore revolutionaries to have it out, to have a say to, to make this your moment, you are going to have to tune in between 9 to 11 to find out exactly what happened. but suella braverman and i spent about half an hour walking up and down, not one, but two encampments there at cambridge university. she wanted genuinely to know some answers to some very serious questions. what are your demands? what do you think about israel? what would you say to hamas? all of this stuff? just asking very bafic this stuff? just asking very basic questions to them. can i just say as well, basic questions to them. can i just say as well , no, top just say as well, no, top politician. she is a top politician, no, top politician and no other real serious news outlet wants to go and have this kind of direct interaction with these protesters. and it is very revealing. >> yeah. well and i bet they saw how charming suella is because is she is an incredibly decent good person and talking to her privately, her great charm comes across. and i hope that came across. and i hope that came across to some of the students. >> what is absolutely, well,

quite hilarious actually , is quite hilarious actually, is they don't know how to handle her. all right. because all of this toxicity, all of this, you know, kind of student echo chamber, she shouting and all of this stuff that goes on. all right. when they are confronted with the reality of someone and given an opportunity to talk to that person . well, i don't i that person. well, i don't i all, i'll say is i don't think they covered themselves in glory. jacob. >> well, people must definitely tune into that. and thank you, patrick. coming up, our petrol cars are about to go the way of the dodo. plus, is it time to let thames water go bust

? well, we were talking about the covid and other inquiries and the extraordinary cost of them. and the male mugs have been winging their way in. and phil

says this is shameful. covid inquiries a waste of money. the money should be spent on british people. roads schools, hospitals. the outcome of the inquiry would tell us what we already know. and graham says graham's very poignant message. actually, no inquiry is going to get me back . a year of lost get me back. a year of lost earnings or leave. the mental torture endured over something that was clearly harmless from the off. well thank you as always for the male moggs keep sending them in. now, i hate to say i told you so. it's rather tiresome thing to say, but the cornish crackdown on second home ownership has come back to bite them. despite their efforts to prevent the sale of new homes to second home buyers. rents have in fact gone up and so have prices, and it's made it harder for first time buyers to get off the property ladder, according to mps are now quietly lobbying the government not to drop the furnished holiday lettings relief as they come to terms with just how much of the local economy relies on income from second homes. while my most intellectual panel is still with me, paul, shouldn't we just let free markets operate? because

people who buy second homes take an enormous amount of income to the areas that they go to ? the areas that they go to? >> well, i was wondering if you'd had this discussion with your conservative colleagues in cornwall, because when i did my research before the programme, as nigel i liked to do, i found out, as far as i can see, your colleagues were very keen on these restrictions. i think there is a bit of a difficulty here that was in the story i read about it, which was there was a quote from someone who knows about the market and it seemed to be pretty robust, who said, well , the local mps don't said, well, the local mps don't want more houses built because it'll bring the price of property down for owners. so there's a question about what do you actually want? you can't both want the owners to be satisfied with high prices and then complain. high prices are keeping younger people locally out of the market. >> that's absolutely right, though. i find most of the objection to building from mps is because local people are campaigning against a loss of some form of amenity, rather

than a narrow price restriction. >> yes, but the effect will be if you don't build, there will be there will be a supply and demand issue and young people locally won't be able to get their homes by and large. yes i agree with the view you're putting, but nigel, isn't this fundamental that in areas of the country where there are second homes, there are very often an area that's high in tourism that have a seasonal population. >> they need the wealth that is brought in by the second home owners. >> yes, but also the local people need affordable housing. so i mean, the way to tackle thatis so i mean, the way to tackle that is to build more houses. i mean, it's pretty simple and affordable houses. the holiday homes . i mean, one of the things homes. i mean, one of the things the report said, although it's talking about wales, is the markets are totally different. houday markets are totally different. holiday home owners want something overlooking the sea that comes at a premium price. so you're talking about half £1 million upwards. what local people want is a £270,000 home next to a school, next to shops ,

next to a school, next to shops, and for local amenities. so you can do both so, so you could do both. yeah, and when it comes to down the, to the local economy, the whole thing is as long as as long as it's not to the detriment of the people who live there. that's fine. but it depends where you are, doesn't it? >> the local economy in many of these areas is tourism, and you can't have tourism unless it's easy for people to stay there. so you crack down on holiday, lets you crack down on second homes, and then there's no economy left in these places . economy left in these places. it's such bad economics. >> no, but there are ways of doing it. the last time that that i holidayed in the west country, i was on a farm where where there were a lot of houday where there were a lot of holiday chalets. these weren't homes for, for, for, local people and it didn't interfere with local people at all. it was catering for the tourist trade . catering for the tourist trade. so it can be done. the question is whether the home owners are moving in, take them over, use them as airbnbs, as happens, say, on the kent coast. and as a result , there is not enough

result, there is not enough housing for people who live there. >> but really what you want is more of the free market, not less. >> i think you want more, more homes, but the free market would provide homes. well, just on the point, not just on the point about tourism for a moment, i'm sure what you say is absolutely true. i'm not from cornwall, but i would think there will be a view down there among some people at least, that they don't want an economy that's completely dependent on tourism . completely dependent on tourism. >> and you do they have. >> and you do they have. >> well, if you had had that argument put to you, about the parts of brexit britain that voted for a different sort of economy and one less reliant on migration, you wouldn't simply say, well, you've they've got to put up with what they've got. >> no, but tourism is something that they've had for a very long time. it's not new. >> i know i'm simply putting view. >> all right. unfortunately we're going to have to move on. but thank you to my panel. well, i was delighted that the government took the sensible decision to delay the 2030 petrol and diesel car ban to 2035. there is still work to be

done because it's not as good as it sounds, because still in place is the zero emissions vehicle mandate, which forces carmakers sales to be at least 22% electric this year, with that mandate rising to 80% by 2030. so while on the surface, the policy shift represents a pro—consumer position , when you pro—consumer position, when you scratch beneath the surface, government policy is still in practice, forcing people to buy electric cars that they don't want. one of britain's biggest dealerships, vertu motors, warned that electric car sales are stalling, which means manufacturers are risking fines of £15,000 per car sold over the mandate , which inevitably leads mandate, which inevitably leads to costs being passed on to you . to costs being passed on to you. another net zero tax? well, i'm joined now by the ceo of eva england, james court. joined now by the ceo of eva england, james court . james, england, james court. james, thank you for joining england, james court. james, thank you forjoining me. can't thank you for joining me. can't we just let consumers decide what type of car they want ? what type of car they want? >> well, i think if you look at the figures, if you look at the car sales that are growing, electric vehicles are growing

quicker than petrol cars. and if you look at plug in hybrids, they're going up even faster. so consumers do want this. i think this was never about consumers. this was about trying to get manufacturers to shift their where their trajectory is going. and we can see that the companies that have done that so kie, are a great example. they're reaping benefits. the companies that are lagging behind are claiming special, special interests and trying to drag this target back because they haven't got to grips with they haven't got to grips with the change that not just us, but europe and america are making , too. >> but that doesn't really answer the question, because if, as you say, consumers are so keen on electric cars, then car manufacturers don't need to be fine to produce them. they're commercial enterprises. they want to make money, they will produce cars to meet the market. and there's £15,000 fine potentially is to stop consumers having what they want. it's to make petrol cars more expensive. >> i think a lot of car manufacturers would be quite happy making petrol cars from here on in. we have got climate

targets, the climate targets that we have to meet and some companies have to be nudged into that have to meet implies that there's some overarching order that we've got to do it. >> this is a matter of government choice. it's policy choice. and voters should be free to vote for parties that can do different things, surely. >> and i think at every election we've had for quite some time now, those that are proposing climate changes have been the overwhelming majority in parliament. 2008 climate change act was passed with, i think, only five mps dissenting on it, and that was nearly 15 years ago. so we in 2008, we signed up to 2008. >> there were there were no costs. so it was an easy thing to vote for then. and that's the problem. the costs from these targets are suddenly beginning to hit people, and consumers don't want to pay £15,000 for an extra car . extra car. >> well, it's not £15,000 for an extra car. what i've been reading is that evs are going to be cheaper . they're reading is that evs are going to be cheaper. they're going to have to start slashing prices. >> that sounds. this is the this is the penalty.

>> this is the penalty that you may have on selling a petrol car. and so £15,000 extra that the price will have to go up for the price will have to go up for the manufacturers to sell it . the manufacturers to sell it. >> if you're wanting to buy an ice car, if you're wanting to buy an ev car, then by the sounds of it, they're going to be making some pretty good cost savings for us by the end of the yeah >> but then the market will lead people to buy electric cars and you don't need this penalty. i don't understand why you're not willing to take the risk with the market and let consumers decide. if you think ev cars are so good, because across the economy, we're seeing that you're going to have to move, some, some, some of the old companies and some of the old keep on saying something that's more clear, but you don't have to. this is a policy choice where 1% of global to. this is a policy choice where1% of global emissions, we're trivial, don't make any odds. we can just go on with petrol cars forever. >> well, so jacob, i was actually working on cop and had the great benefit of having a number 10 that was fully behind that. and he put cars . boris that. and he put cars. boris johnson put cars right at the

centre that it was the uk showing massive global leadership on this, and we've already seen last year with manufacturers coming, coming in and trying to get, a foothold of evs. let me put this to you. >> we've got europe's leading anybody . anybody. >> europe and the uk have held their economy back because they've got much higher energy costs than the rest of the world. china, india, russia , the world. china, india, russia, the united states, united states pretends to do this. and then really doesn't, energy costs electricity costs uk $0.44 per kilowatt hour against $0.17 in the us. we're just crippling our economy for an ideology . economy for an ideology. >> well, if i can get back onto electric vehicles, i think if you can see what china are doing and america are doing, they are desperately trying to grapple for this next wave of manufacturing. so i put it that we can either be the last country in the world that is going to sell a petrol or diesel car, or we can try and move our manufacturing base to one that is going to be secure and is going to help those jobs that

we've already got, as well as being an area for growth. for us, there is no future. >> thank you, james, thank you very much. >> i would let the market decide rather than regulate, but that is a disagreement between us. but thank you for coming on the program, next we're going to be talking about thames water and should it go bust from 9 pm. on a special patrick christys tonight, former home secretary suella braverman comes face to face with the gaza protest camps at cambridge university. >> vie what's your message to the palestinian people ? find out the palestinian people? find out your views and what you're protesting about. i'm really keen to hear what your message is to israel. >> has anti—semite ism become endemic in british society? braverman is on a quest for answers. >> i'm coming with a sincere intention to engage what we're seeing on campus here at cambridge is a certain kind of thuggery, intimidation and harassment . harassment. >> i'll also interview suella live in the studio to dissect it all. who won when suella confronted the students? find

out on patrick christys tonight, 9 to 11 pm. be there

i >> -- >> well, -_ >> well, we were talking about second homes and petrol cars and the extra costs that may be put on them. and you've been firing in your mailbox. adam says if the uk were not increasingly overpopulating itself every yeah overpopulating itself every year, the existing housing stock would be near adequate for harmony. which is a good point. we've got to take into account migration having an effect on housing. and pete says very few people want an ev. ask us very referendum are another one of those excellent the more plebiscites the better. now some of you may think this is a dry topic, but the situation at the crisis gripped thames water is flowing like a broken tap. they are hardly flushed with success today , a key board member has today, a key board member has stepped down as the troubled

water company tries to keep its head above. you know what, michael mcnichols, who represents the canadian pension fund omers , has resigned with fund omers, has resigned with immediate effect in a move widely expected to signal a wider exodus as investors look set to ditch their stakes in britain's biggest water company. in any other industry , thames in any other industry, thames water would be allowed to fail. the shareholders and bondholders should take a haircut and pay the price for their effectively greed. the company could then be sold on to new owners who could run the business competently . run the business competently. it's my view that all nationalisation will achieve is to move the bulk of thames water's £14 billion of debt onto the state, and therefore you, the state, and therefore you, the taxpayer. well, my panel is still with me. nigel nelson and paul goodman. nigel, you would actually nationalise water . actually nationalise water. >> i would . i think, public >> i would. i think, public utilities and public services ought to be in public hands in this particular case, the government is standing by to nationalise thames water should it go bust, i hope they do so. but then the taxpayer would have

to take on £14 billion worth of debt. surely one of the reasons labour labour decided to pull away from the idea of nationalisation. but this is a basket case. but this is why i'd suggest, even if you want nationalise it, you should let it go. >> bust first and then and then buy it off the receiver with you there rather than let's get it on the cheap. >> but i mean, what they've been doing that they've been giving dividends of 7 billion over the over the last 30 years, they've given dividends after borrowing against assets. so they've got the extra money. they're not, they're not capable of running a water company. so let's let them go . go. >> and they took on the cheek and they took a lot of index linked, debt on, which has had a bad effect on them because it led to a very high interest rate. they got used to low interest rates and became very comfortable with a badly misjudged balance sheet. >> and they won't and they won't invest on the infrastructure they need to do to make the whole thing work properly anyway, because they don't any longer have any cash flow to do it, to afford any further investment. but i mean, the

directors were happy to take their dividends , but they're not their dividends, but they're not not so happy to invest in the company. >> and macquarie did very nicely about this because they got out at the right time and sold it on to other people. the one argument that people have come up with against letting it go bust is that would deter other foreign investors that i think this is bogus, because foreign investors know that some investments they make are badly run and lose the money, and they don't run away from the whole country unless they've been fiddled by the country, by some regulatory change, which isn't the case here. >> just picking you up on that point. i think it would be a mistake for anyone to think, and i think investors don't think that every privatised water company is like thames water, and they appear, as far as i can see, to have borrowed very unwisely. therefore what happens in the last resort if they go bust , which i in the last resort if they go bust, which i think they should be allowed to do, is the state comes in nationalises, picks up the problem and then sells it on, which would seem to me to be, in this case, the right

thing to do. >> the states do it. why can't it just be done by the receiver in an ordinary way? who would carry on running the company and would sell the assets? >> if you have the receiver involved, the state surely is involved. >> no, i don't think so because the receiver is normally a firm of accountants who does this auctions it off. and really interestingly, you then get a lower asset base for ofwat to set the return on assets, which would actually reduce water pnces would actually reduce water prices rather than increase them. >> someone has to have the ultimate responsibility for picking thames water up. if it if it goes bust and is allowed to. >> but we have a perfectly proper structure for insolvencies in this country, which doesn't mean the state taking ownership. so why don't we just follow the normal structure rather than needing state? >> my argument would be even if it did, it would be a temporary measure before you, before you put it back, before you then sold it on just in other other cases, because you won't just want to talk about thames water, you will want to look at the system as a whole. i think the problem for nationalisation is

rather like the problem of nationalising railways, and it's generally a problem of investment. you've got to go to the treasury and get money, and you're competing against more popular obvious causes. a lot of people don't wander around saying water needs more investment. they want more money to go into the health service or stopping immigration or whatever. so i think the big benefit of bringing the private sector in, as a rule, is you get more money for investment . more money for investment. >> that's the fundamental point, isn't it, that the cash for investment , if it's investment, if it's nationalised, is competing with building a new hospital . and building a new hospital. and when you say to people, do you want less sewage going into the rivers or in your hospital, most people actually want a new hospital. >> yes, they would. and if you're looking at a priorities, i understand that. but in this case, that had we not privatised in the first place, we'd never have had the investment that we have had the investment that we have had. >> we would we would have had £7 billion to invest that went, went into shareholders pockets. well up to a point because thames water, to be fair to it, has invested in the mega sewer

thatis has invested in the mega sewer that is one of the biggest engineering projects that's been going on in this country, which has cost many billions, but they're still leaking 250 olympic swimming pool size. >> yeah, but water every every day. >> but the government would be leaking more because actually stopping leaks that stop stopping leaks that stop stopping stopping leaks is not a good economic investment because the water itself is virtually free. the cost is in capital. >> well, but we still don't want it all flowing, flowing, all flowing out, do we? >> okay, well finally today marks the 81st anniversary of operation chastise , more operation chastise, more commonly known as the dambusters. wing commander guy gibson led 617 bomber command on that famous mission. the primary aim of the operation was to destroy three dams in the ruhr valley, the industrial heartland of germany, principally the mohne dam that was used to generate electricity. the thinking was their destruction would seriously disrupt nazi war. production was an amazingly successful and brave effort thanks to the inspired technical expertise of barnes wallis. and

if you haven't watched watched the film, i would encourage you to. and finally, as you will have seen on nigel's show , world have seen on nigel's show, world war ii, veteran 99 year old dorothea baron is raising money to take our heroes back to normandy for the 80th anniversary of d—day. normandy for the 80th anniversary of d—day . on screen anniversary of d—day. on screen now is the code to donate, please do so generously. anyway, that's all from me up next, it's patrick christys patrick, you've got suella. but what else have you got on the bill of fare this evening? >> i've got a tear in my eye after that. jacob, i tell you what, i was absolutely fantastic. it was rousing. it was magnificent. i'd follow you into battle. but yes, we've got suella, but, from the, from the protest that we had there at cambridge. i've also got suella in the studio. okay and she's going to be debating a revolutionary communist believe it or not, we've made that happen, who is apparently behind some of these protests? i'm also going to be talking to an nhs whistleblower as well, revealing the shocking level of mismanagement in the nhs. so we're going to be talking about that, and you're going to be heanng that, and you're going to be hearing from kevin spacey, the

hollywood superstar. >> well, that's going to be very exciting. fireworks between suella and a revolutionary communist. that's after the weather. i'll be back on monday at 8:00. i am still jacob rees—mogg, and this has been state of the nation. and as usual, the weather is going to be absolutely glorious in somerset, though, my brilliant producer wants me to say it'll also be quite nice in yorkshire as well, and we have a lot of back and forth on which is god's own county. but you all know it's somerset . it's somerset. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> good evening. it's time for your latest gb news weather update brought to you by the met office. there will be a few showers around tomorrow, but also some decent warm sunshine before that. a largely dry night ahead once the heavy rain that is affecting central parts at the moment clears away towards the moment clears away towards the west. the low pressure driving the rain is making its way westwards across the uk and as it clears away, it will take

the worst of the heavy rain with it. so for many it is going to turn largely dry overnight, although across some parts of nonh although across some parts of north wales, northern england, perhaps into southern scotland, there will be some thicker cloud here and that cloud could bring some outbreaks of rain elsewhere . there will be some clear skies but temperatures not dropping a huge amount. most places holding up in double digits. we do need to watch out for some mist and fog first thing, particularly in the south—east. i am expecting a few patches to develop overnight, but they should largely clear quite quickly as we go through the morning tomorrow. some brighter skies across other parts of southern england and wales. thicker cloud, though for northern england and wales, and this bringing some outbreaks of rain even into parts of southern scotland. sunny skies, though, for northern ireland and the rest of scotland, albeit towards the far northwest towards the outer hebrides. here some thicker cloud could also be bringing some outbreaks of rain first thing tomorrow morning. otherwise, as we go through the day , the thicker cloud across day, the thicker cloud across some northern areas should break up a little bit. so some brightness breaking through here and elsewhere. there will be some decent sunny spells, but

also a few showers to watch out for. they should be generally fairly hit and miss in nature, so many of us will avoid them. do watch out for some heavier ones across parts of scotland, temperatures likely to be a little bit higher than today for many of us, a low 20s quite widely, so feeling pretty warm in any sunshine into the weekend. and on saturday, watch out for some hefty, showery rain spreading its way across southern parts . elsewhere, there southern parts. elsewhere, there could be a few showers to watch out for, but they don't look like they'll be as frequent or as intense. perhaps fewer showers on sunday, but still, the chance of some, especially towards the south. then monday is looking mostly fine. see you later . later. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers. sponsors of weather on

weather. for. on. >> good evening. the top stories this hour. a damaged air valve

on a pipe in a field containing cattle has been identified as a potential source , leading to potential source, leading to small traces of parasite in a local water network. thousands of households in devon have been told to boil their water before drinking it for another week, after a parasite was found in a key reservoir . the after a parasite was found in a key reservoir. the uk health security agency says 22 people are confirmed to have been become sick with 70 other cases of diarrhoea and vomiting under investigation in southwest waters. chief customer officer says it's possible that cattle manure caused the contamination in. the company, has apologised and is offering £115 of compensation to those affected . compensation to those affected. sir keir starmer has told gb news that there'll be no tax cuts under a labour government until the economy is back on the path to growth. the labour leader says that while he wants to keep the tax burden as low as possible, he also wants to ensure that living standards improve . he said british people improve. he said british people deserve to know that future

generations will enjoy better opportunities. but he says that can only be achieved with tangible steps wherever we, have said we will raise taxes , we've said we will raise taxes, we've set out what we will raise and what we'll spend the money on. >> so what you did hear this morning is that we're going to get rid of the tax break for private schools and use that for money the teachers we need in our state secondary schools. well, you did hear is that we're going to get rid of the non—dom status properly and use that money towards reducing, reducing waiting lists. the tax burden on people is as high as it's ever been under this government, you know, this has been the tax rising government of all time , rising government of all time, hospital mortuaries in england allowed bodies of deceased patients to decompose because of a shortage of freezers. inspectors have found the human tissue authority told how inadequate storage facilities at some nhs trusts and lack of freezer space means some bodies have been left for too long at

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