prime minister. let's face it, the world seems more divided now than ever. so how do you keep pubuc than ever. so how do you keep public officials safe whilst maintaining their contacts with said public? and get this right, nearly 40% of global debt in money is apparently laundered in london and uk crown dependencies . what do you reckon to this then? how much of an issue is it, and what on earth can and should be done about it? and emergency measures have been triggered to deal with prison overcrowding in england. what on earth took them so long and let's talk elections, shall we? should the reform party and the tories do some kind of pact?

indeed, that's all to come in the next hour. there's also lots more to discuss tonight. should you be incentivised with cash to lose weight? and what about children? do you think they should have sex education in schools? primary schools, or should that be banned before we get stuck in, let's cross live for tonight's latest news headunes. headlines. >> michelle thank you. the top stories from the gb newsroom. slovakia's prime minister robert fico is in a critical condition after he was shot following a government meeting in handlova, outside the capital bratislava . outside the capital bratislava. the officials could be seen bundung the officials could be seen bundling the prime minister into a car. shortly after, several shots were heard hitting mr fico in the abdomen. he was then airlifted to hospital, where his condition is now life threatening. one man has now been detained by authorities. the country's president condemned the assassination attempt, describing it as a brutal attack. mr fico won power

for a fourth time last october and has implemented more pro—russian policies. he's pledged to stop military support for ukraine and threatened to veto the country's membership in nato. emergency measures are now in place across england to deal with overcrowded prisons . it with overcrowded prisons. it means defendants in police custody will remain there and won't be transferred to courts for bail hearings. the labour leader used today's prime minister's questions to reference a report saying high risk prisoners are being let out up to 70 days early without sufficient planning . sufficient planning. >> the early release of stalkers, domestic abusers and those considered a risk to children sound like the work of someone who is making the country more secure. >> mr speaker , as i've said, as >> mr speaker, as i've said, as i've said, no one should be put on this scheme if they are a threat to the public. and let me be crystal clear, it does not apply. it absolutely does not apply. it absolutely does not apply to anyone serving a life sentence. anyone convicted of a

serious, violent offence, anyone convicted of terrorism, anyone convicted of terrorism, anyone convicted of terrorism, anyone convicted of a sex offence and crucially, in contrast to the system that labour had put in place, mr speaker , governors and place, mr speaker, governors and the prison service have an absolute lock so that no one is put on the scheme who shouldn't be. >> in other news, four people were arrested and six police officers injured at a pro palestine demonstration in glasgow. protesters blocked the entrances to the thales factory in the city's west in an apparent effort to disrupt the supply of arms to israel . they supply of arms to israel. they demanded a ceasefire in gaza and claimed the factory was directly involved in supplying weapons. claimed the factory was directly involved in supplying weapons . a involved in supplying weapons. a spokesperson for the company said that while the demonstrators have the right to protest peacefully, they will work with authorities to prosecute anyone who threatens their employees . police could their employees. police could make more use of existing stop and search powers as part of new measures to tackle knife crime. the searches were curbed a

decade ago by then home secretary theresa may, after it was found minorities were being disproportionately targeted . disproportionately targeted. £55 million will be invested into developing new technology, which could help police detect suspects carrying knives by scanning them from a distance . scanning them from a distance. new proposals could see schools in england banned from teaching students about gender identity . students about gender identity. the government's review would also see all sex education halted for children under the age of nine. the prime minister ordered the review last year amid concerns some children were being exposed to inappropriate content. reports suggest parents will be provided samples of sex education content before lessons take place . a red notice search take place. a red notice search warrant for an escaped french prisoner has been issued by interpol. 30 year old mohamed amara, also known as the fly , amara, also known as the fly, escaped from a prison van in northern france yesterday , northern france yesterday, sparking a major manhunt. he was broken free by gunmen in an

ambush that killed two prison guards . more ambush that killed two prison guards. more food ambush that killed two prison guards . more food parcels were guards. more food parcels were handed out over the past year than ever before. the trussell trust says it donated more than 3 million emergency packages in the year to the end of march, as the year to the end of march, as the cost of living puts more households under strain. more than a million of those were for children, and the overall total has almost doubled in just five years. the trust is calling on the government to tackle long term deficiencies in the welfare system . now, if you've ever system. now, if you've ever found yourself stuck on hold, how about waiting 800 years? that's how long people in britain spent waiting to talk to the taxman last year. a damning report from the government spending watchdog found taxpayers were on hold to hmrc for around 7,000,000 hours in that tax year. it was less than half that time before the covid pandemic. fewer calls are now being answered and those who do manage to get through spend longer on the phone amid what's being called a declining spiral

of customer service . and some of customer service. and some good news for fans of the comedy legally blonde, it is returning to screens in the form of a prequel series. the character, portrayed by reese witherspoon , portrayed by reese witherspoon, will be bending and snapping her way back to the small screen in a series titled l, with its clever critique of the dumb blonde stereotype. the original film became an instant classic when it premiered in 2001. for the latest stories, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news complex. now back to . michelle. >> hello everybody. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me, my panel, the former mep and conservative peerin the former mep and conservative peer in the house of lords , peer in the house of lords, jacqueline foster, and the co—founder of novara media, aaron bastani. good evening to both of you. you're very welcome. and of course, you are

very welcome at home to what is on your mind tonight. you can get in touch with me all the usual ways, of course. you can email me gb views @gbnews. com you can go to the website at and get in touch there gbnews.com. slash your sinner join the conversation there. i've got to say you do make me smile, my dear viewers, because i touched on at the start of the programme that i'll try and get to that story today about the under nine. there's been a so—called banned from having sex education and mick as emailed in or he's got in touch on the website saying i wish someone had taught me sex education. michelle, we were four kids down before we finally bought a television . i'm finally bought a television. i'm saying nothing, look, we've seen very dramatic scenes unfolding today, haven't we, on what's has been called an attack on democracy. the slovakian prime minister, robert fico, has just been airing in those headlines. i was being shot, wounded is currently in a life threatening condition in hospital, apparently, these hours are

critical, when it comes to his so—called, you know, survival, etc. now, what i find quite interesting when i look at this is that actually there had been in parliament and they'd been debating his government's proposal to abolish slovakia's pubuc proposal to abolish slovakia's public broadcaster and replace it with something that actually many people feared would be more passive, perhaps, towards him , passive, perhaps, towards him, or not. so i found the actual conversation that they were having quite interesting. but what really i mean, what you're seeing now is you're seeing footage on the screen. you can see him there. he's being dragged. i'll describe it if you're listening. what he was basically doing is after a meeting, he was going on essentially a short walk about to meet people behind those barriers, some guy we know him to be, a 71 year old guy shot, numerous times, actually, at that prime minister. and then you see the security detail there, literally dragging the prime minister into that car. and what you see in there is the exact moment that he did that assassination attempt , i mean,

assassination attempt, i mean, you can see the security detail there. absolutely pouncing on him, i've got to say this, prime minister some would say is potentially quite controversial. many would say he takes quite a pro—russian stance. he was against sanctions on russia. he doesn't necessarily support ongoing military support when it comes to ukraine. and he also, you might be familiar with the fact that he said that britain should suffer basically when it came to brexit, bit notwithstanding, you know, some of that other stuff, it got me thinking, jacqueline, you know , thinking, jacqueline, you know, we're in an election year in this country. you know, people are very , very divided. you've are very, very divided. you've got that added layer of what's going on in israel and gaza, and there's a real fine line, isn't there, with being in public politics, because you need to engage with your public, but also you need to have best endeavours to keep safe as well. >> well, you're absolutely right , and the thing is, all of us, i

think that go into politics, know that you, you could be at risk , but what i would not do, risk, but what i would not do, i mean, this this itself is an horrendous situation that's ansen horrendous situation that's arisen , it's not in isolation. arisen, it's not in isolation. we've seen, you know, presidents . president kennedy, if we go back, quite a long time now and, and others who've obviously been injured or murdered, and we've had our own members of parliament and so i think we try our best to look at the whole security side, which is absolutely right. but we have to have a balance here. and i, for one, i'm not prepared to live in a democracy where, you know, the members of parliament and the representatives are really having to hide behind a hide behind a wall. we do go out there, and we do meet the public, or i did, certainly when i was an elected member of the european parliament. and we canvass and that's what we do. and, you know, i think the vast majority of people are fine in this particular case, we don't

know what's happened. is this a lone wolf? because we do know that situations like that happen , was there a political motivation, as you said, he's a controversial prime minister. but, you know, that's their internal politics. is it linked to terrorism? again, we don't know. so it'll be interesting to see. i think once the, you know, the investigation has come out, i think we'd certainly wish him all the very best. and the people of slovakia, it must be a very torrid time for them. and even the opposition leader is really quite distressed about all of this. but in terms of our own security, we do have good security. we know we can contact the police, if we do feel as though we're under any threat. but in terms of, you know, closing this down, even more and, you know, politicians here hiding away more so, no, i wouldn't support that. >> our ambassador, your thoughts? >> yeah. just appalling really. it is important to think about the political context of where this has happened to slovakia, central europe, relatively new

to democracy, of course, behind the iron curtain until a few decades ago. and i think for me, it asks a question about the politics and the democratic nature of central and eastern europe. obviously, we've seen the previously unthinkable happenin the previously unthinkable happen in ukraine. we've seen viktor orban take hungary in a different direction. poland following suit. and i think for a brief moment, really over the 2000, 2000 and the 2010s, we thought that europe would become more and more similar. thought that europe would become more and more similar . western more and more similar. western europe, eastern europe, central europe, eastern europe, central europe would all sort of resemble one another. and i think that was wrong. and i think that was wrong. and i think we'll see that become more pronounced over time. and so i would be loathe to compare the politics of western europe to the politics of central europe and eastern europe, particularly in the context of ukraine. and finally, mr fico is somebody of a similar political bent to viktor orban, he is a supporter of putin or let's let's put it another way, he is not, in opposition to vladimir putin.

he's certainly doesn't oppose what's going on really strongly in, in ukraine. and i have to say, if the, if the boot was on the other foot, if there was a pro—ukraine prime minister who was shot in the street, i think we'd be pretty quick to attribute politics to i'm not. that's not a criticism of you. we shouldn't do that anyway. but i think it's interesting how we talk about, you know, the authoritarian, ultra nationalist right, and whatnot. well, this is one of them. and he's just been shot on the street. so it can really happen to anyone. it can really happen to anyone. it can come from anywhere. >> but then how do you stay safe against it then? because ultimately, like we're showing you there he was. you know, you've got those, you know, crowd control barriers or whatever. so the guy was on one side of it. you got the pm there surrounded by security on the opposite side of that , you know, opposite side of that, you know, and you can still do that. we've got to take into account david amess was we've had a rise in this country of islamic extremism, and that has also , extremism, and that has also, you know, affected obviously david amess david amess was

murdered. >> and, so we know that there are pressures and there are tensions , so i don't think it's tensions, so i don't think it's that relevant of what's going on in hungary. i understand the politics of, orban and hungary and slovakia. i was i was in the european parliament before enlargement, and i travelled behind the iron curtain , you behind the iron curtain, you know, for, for many years. so i don't think that's necessarily the, the issue here because they'll all have different points of view and different views on all sorts of things. but i think where michelle is coming from is how do you actually protect those, whether we like their views or not, how do we actually go about dealing with that? and i think we just come back to that fundamental point, there is always a risk, i think, when you're in the public eye, and then we hope our own authorities can do the very best they can, along with support from the public of making sure that we don't get these sorts of incidents here. we have had them and we've got to deal with them and we've got to deal with them and do the best we can. well, it got me thinking because i do, i always whatever goes on, i do try and superimpose it over here

into this country. >> and i kind of look and rishi sunak as well. he's of course, i've got to say he's, tweeted out as well, saying how shocking he has found this incident. but it got me then thinking, you know, if i was an elected politician with the way that the world is and the division and the intolerance and the nastiness , the downright nastiness, the downright nastiness, the downright nastiness that goes on within politics, i think. would i be comfortable doing a walkabout and a meet and greet and all the rest of it? if i was, i don't know, say the prime minister and don't worry, for the sake of the nation, it's not going to happen. you're all safe. but if i was the prime minister, i'd probably want to wear some kind of, bullet proof vest or something underneath my clothes. and then i feel. is that giving in? >> well, look, we've had one prime minister in this country killed. assassinated? it was spencer perceval, i think in the 1820s or in the 1830s. it was somebody who wanted an audience with him. couldn't get it. it wasn't a political extremist. although they killed the prime minister i suppose you could say they were, but it was apparently some every man, some john bull figure who got frustrated, and i would say, look, as i get older,

i buy the argument that actually britain is actually quite a pragmatic, moderate, calm country. not all the time. and temperatures rise. we have our moments. but if you look at brexit 2016, you look at the indyref in 2014. i honestly don't think any other country in europe could have done that so peacefully. the idea that we were having a peaceful, democratic conversation about the potential partition of the uk, i don't think any other country in europe could have done that in a similar way. or are departure from the european union, as we know in france, in ireland, every time something was rejected by the electorate, they they got the same question back until they voted the right way. that didn't happen with brexit. so i do think there's something to commend britain in this regard. we criticise it a lot. we say things are wrong with politics or the economy. i think that's a good thing. broadly speaking, i would say we're very different to somewhere like slovakia. >> and when i just said, you know, bringing it back to this country, if i was going on a walkabout and i put a, you know, a vest on a stab vest or whatever, is that giving? and you said, yeah, it is. you said,

sorry. i was saying, like, if i was in a high profile political position in this country and i was on walkabouts, i would probably put something. now, whether it's a stab vest or whatever, underneath my clothes, you don't need to you honestly don't need to. >> i mean, when i started becoming involved with the tory party and that was during the 80s with margaret thatcher, i mean, don't forget, they tried to blow up a prime minister. that was the ira. yeah, and twice i have been on the i mean, i've fought as i'm the one sitting here that's fought the elections, that's been the candidate that's been on the doorsteps, that's done the pubuc doorsteps, that's done the public meetings and everything. and i guarantee all of the others out there who've done this, whether they local councillors or members of parliament, i think would agree with me. of course, you're aware you're not blase about these things, but the chances of these things, but the chances of these things happening are so tiny. yeah, they are very. and the good thing is the positive thing is if anything positive could have come out of the death of david amess, who was a wonderful, wonderful person and a great member of parliament, was that there's been a greater awareness locally from local police and local activists, and

to try and make sure now that we're looking as carefully as we can, but we, you know, we can all go shopping, we can walk in all go shopping, we can walk in a supermarket. we don't know. we're seeing we're seeing machetes on the streets of london, which at a daily rate of people just running around this country and chopping people up. >> absolutely sickening drive by shootings. >> so in the scheme of things , >> so in the scheme of things, this is a very serious issue. but by comparison to actually what's happening in terms of crime on the streets and knife crime, particularly in london, i think this, this actually is this dwarfs what actually is going on. >> but do you know what i did today? this is not about politics or anything like that. but you say about crime on the street. i did something today for the first time. i was walking through central london, and i consciously thought to myself , put my and i consciously thought to myself, put my things like my house keys and stuff like that in my coat pocket so that they weren't in my handbag, because i've always thought if anyone tries to grab my handbag, they're not getting that handbag off me, thank you very much. and then i thought back to that

awful, horrendous story of that lady at that bus stop in edgware, very recently that fought for her handbag compared with her life. and now i just think, do you know what? i'm not sure if i would be willing to fight for my handbag. and i thought, what an awful state of affairs that i've because i never used to, never used to think like i wouldn't go through my mind, put stuff in a pocket or do this or do that. and it is just a sad state of affairs. >> so there's two there's two levels here, criminals engaging in things like that, obviously very dangerous. it happens relatively frequently. the people, the individuals that are drawn sometimes to political violence aren't actually, particularly intimidating figures . particularly intimidating figures. this particularly intimidating figures . this is from particularly intimidating figures. this is from experts i've spoken to. they're not politically intimidating figures. they might not even be violent in their personal lives. they tend to be loners. they tend not really to have very strong sexual connections with other people. and they tend to be fantasists. let's see what this chap is. i mean, we don't know, 71. we have literally no other details on him apart from that. but the idea that, you know, violent criminals who are very good at intimidating and

even hurting other people, they can actually be quite different characters to the ones that get involved in, in political violence . violence. >> well, to me, it's we're all at home. carol's got in touch and said, i'm sickened, michel, to hear people talking about what this prime minister does or doesn't support and who he doesn't support and who he doesn't align himself with, she says this is absolutely disgusting. she says, i don't care who or what. the man was shot in open air, and she said, nobody deserves a shooting like this. completely agree. and i certainly don't think anyone would suggest that just because you politically disagree with someone, you're fair game, i think. absolutely. on the contrary to that, what do you make to it all? let's talk dirty money, shall we? that's been laundered in london and the uk crown dependencies. what's going on? a huge percentage of it coming our way. why? see you in two.

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry, and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight. lots that i want to go through with you guys this evening. but you know what? do you know how much so called dirty money is apparently laundered in london and uk crown dependencies. 40% of it. apparently, that figure , aaron apparently, that figure, aaron actually stopped me in my tracks. 40% of all dirty money coming in our general direction in some way, shape or form. why do you think that is? >> i thought it was higher. i think historically i think historically it would have been higher. but i suppose there are new kids on the block in in central america, and i suppose cyprus, malta, there's a few questions here that i think are worth raising. firstly britain is not a world power anymore. you know, it cannot change the fate of nations like it could 100 years ago. it can on global tax evasion because of all these

crown territories playing such a prominent role. that's the first thing. often we have these very abstract debates around this or thatissue abstract debates around this or that issue elsewhere. and people say, well, what can we do? not much. okay, well, this is not that that kind of issue. we can actually do a great deal if we set an example here with regards to the crown territories and dependencies from jersey to the west indies. that's the first point. secondly tax evasion and tax avoidance are just such extraordinarily huge issues. and when i hear the word corruption and tax, i'd want to fan the conversation out ever so slightly. evasion is a huge issue, but avoidance as well really does get my goat. so if you look at a great british brand like cadbury or boots, employs people here, pays tax here. it's bought by us private equity. they relocate the tax base to somewhere like switzerland. they lay off the uk employees . awful, awful, awful. employees. awful, awful, awful. and that's business as usual. i think that's corrupt, but we don't think of it as corrupt about that. >> you might not like it. it might be a practice that you would prefer. didn't happen. you

might want to keep that employment investment or whatever within this country. but just because you don't like we shouldn't be letting corrupt. >> sure, we shouldn't be letting people outside the uk buy a british business to lay off british business to lay off british workers to and give less tax. the british taxpayer and the exchequer operate in a closed market then. >> so no, you don't want to do business internationally? >> no, no, ijust business internationally? >> no, no, i just think we should operate more. the americans don't do that, for instance, or the french, you know, i think we are we are far too prone giving our companies away. >> of course it is. what's corrupt about it. >> i think it's deeply corrupt. if, for instance, let me give you the example of cadbury, we own foreign companies not to the same extent. we don't, not to the same extent. if you also look at us ownership of british companies, it's extraordinary. in the last 20 years, it's just it has extraordinary. >> but you're not taking on what's corrupt. >> well i think i think it is corrupt. if you're allowing people outside the uk to buy uk assets to lay off british workers to move the tax domicile of that business, i think that's bad. i think that's actually that's probably worse than what this is. >> well, that can i just come back to go on in she comes. well

let's come back to what we're talking about. we're talking about british dependencies and we're talking about money laundering here. and it's of course, it's not to be. it's not to be sniffed at at all, but i know for a fact , you know, know for a fact, you know, however popular or unpopular we might, might or might not be, we certainly have this government have tried very hard to try and put in place much tougher legislation when it comes to this area. and we've also been deaung this area. and we've also been dealing quite a bit, when we've looked at sanctions and russian money. i mean, london is known as sort of , i money. i mean, london is known as sort of, i don't money. i mean, london is known as sort of , i don't know, as sort of, i don't know, london, whatever. now, and that's been going on for years because we've had massive investment from all over the world. what i smiled at here when i had a look at it was the british virgin islands and the cayman islands, which they're talking about. two gorgeous places. actually, i must i must say it'd be lovely for holidays, but apparently the, the, the ministers there had turned round and said, well, the thing is,

they did look into this . this is they did look into this. this is about getting registers. so everything's, you know, everything's, you know, everything's in the public eye of who owns what. but because of an ecj ruling, she said that could infringe on people's human rights. so what we have is now these arguments that we've had, whether it's on illegal immigration or whether it's on rwanda, whatever it on on the european court of justice, it has spread its tentacles right across to the debate on the british virgin islands and the cayman islands. so that's going to be fascinating to see how that works out. apparently they're now looking into it , to they're now looking into it, to see if they can or they will or to, prepared actually, i think clamp down more on the situation that they're in, but it's quite fascinating when you see that there's actually an ig, an ig judgement on this about the information that they or we would give out on people who are investing in our country or taxpayers as general.

>> and i mean , if you've got >> and i mean, if you've got eyesight that works and you go to a variety of different cities and you might have even have been with me on one of these lives, i remember doing a live, gb news dewbs& co and the audience, they were talking about the amount of, i think it was, turkish barber shops or some kind of barber shop that had sprouted up, like, i don't know what, on their streets. and, you know, there was many suggestions previously that some of these establishments that are popping upi of these establishments that are popping up, whether it's barbers or whatever, they're not necessarily dealing just in the business of hairdos. yeah. and, you know, when it comes to money laundering, do you think that we need to be, tougher? i mean, you're saying, jacqueline, that you're saying, jacqueline, that you brought in all these legislations or whatever, but whether people can apply then to it? >> yeah, but trying to make sure that it's actually , you know, that it's actually, you know, being complied with. >> but do you think we're tough enough on this stuff? well, you're talking separate. >> that's a separate issue on the barber shops. we know that

there's a black economy, the drugs trade in this country are going to be working. a lot of it's on cash . and we know it's on cash. and we know there's probably cash going all over the place, but equally then money's going abroad and it's coming, you know, backwards and forwards. so it's quite, it's quite complex actually. >> the barber shops get a tough old time. i'm sure some of them are a bit dodgy, but there are so many restaurants, cafes, bars where i live and where i'm from, bournemouth, they open . nobody bournemouth, they open. nobody goesin bournemouth, they open. nobody goes in there for two years. you never see them open. they're closed again. it's far more common than we realise. so that's the first point. secondly, just to go back because that might have seen who's banging on these because i can think i mean i've just got an image that's like like like jacqueline says, that's the black economy that's slightly different. right. so that's, that's that's illegal businesses trying to clean their money, they're still laundering. this is legal businesses trying to basically evade tax by going to different jurisdictions. >> and you but you was also talking about, tax avoidance and that's legal. and i would argue who on earth is going to want to pay who on earth is going to want to pay whether you're a corporation

or an individual, whatever, who on earth is going to want to pay more tax than you legally have to do? >> you know, what do you know who had to pay money to the irs and i think maybe five, six years ago, do you know who had to pay £100,000 to boris johnson because he was a dual national to the united states? the irs chased people around the world to get their money. yeah. in this country we say, well, if you can dodge it, good luck to you. well, the americans don't think that. take the example of starbucks. they have been operating in this country for over 20 years. they didn't pay, i believe, a penny of corporation tax until about 2021 because their tax domicile was in the netherlands. so any profits they're making in this country were being run back through the netherlands. they would they would do all sorts of financial shenanigans to basically not record a profit. starbucks is very profitable in the uk, so they weren't paying taxes on their profits in the uk. this is where and that's the kind of thing i think that's corrupt. but this is where the difficulty comes in because, as you quite rightly say, tax avoidance is not illegal. >> people will have an accountant to make sure that they're not paying tax, that they're not paying tax, that they need not pay, so they can

avoid paying tax. what we're looking at is actually tax evasion, which is a completely different thing. and it is illegal. i do believe, you know, i actually agree with you on certain companies that we know that have been here for a long, long time . that have been here for a long, longtime. but of that have been here for a long, long time . but of course, you long time. but of course, you know, we also have british companies that are registered abroad and then they're trading and they're doing whatever it is around the world and probably reciprocal. you know, it's a similar sort of situation. i don't think there's an easy, you know, we were we live in and we times of open markets and trade which we don't want to close down, take their passports away. but i think, you know, by passports, by the, by the same token, you know of course individuals may whose passports are you going to take off. >> there are people there are people who domicile their businesses in these different jurisdictions. uk nationals, they go live there. they go live in monaco or whatever for 25 years. >> and then they they're only they're only f1 drivers. yeah. >> but because i'm fascinated by what you're saying . what you're saying. >> so they they've benefited, they've benefited from this country. whether it's this educational system or its health care system or just the rule of care system orjust the rule of law, its culture. and then they think they can opt out. and i

think, you know what? there should be costs for that. but there aren't costs right now wholly over one. >> so let me get this straight. i mean it. so you are a fraud going on in this country. >> never mind people hopping to live in monaco. so you reckon that someone they live in the uk and i mean, heaven forbid, i dread to imagine how much tax that they will have paid. >> i don't pay any. they're really rich, don't pay any tax, you know that. >> they will have been paid, not the really rich. they will have been paying more than their fair share. when you're actually look comparatively of tax. so they're paying comparatively of tax. so they're paying into a system. and by the way, they probably when you look at what they're drawing out of that system, they probably put their kids in private education. they probably have private health care. so they probably drawing out of the state very little. so that's what i mean in terms of paying over the odds. so they've contributed massively. they've probably got businesses here that employ people. they they pay all of those kind of taxations. and then they might decide to go and live in a lower tax country wherever, i don't know, whatever dubal wherever, i don't know, whatever dubai, monaco, whatever you want. describe and then you want to take that passport off. >> let me give you let me give

you a ridiculous i'll give you an example. let me give you an example. so hang on, hang on. philip green, the left. philip. no, it's not philip green. philip green, billionaire. yeah. he made himself he enriched himself by destroying the pension funds of bus workers in this country. he wasn't paying a penny tax on a bunch of dividends. he awarded himself through his wife because he was in monaco. and we give the man a knighthood? no. we should have taken his passport away. >> let's not forget on the left, my little left friend here, the great famous robert maxwell. he was a crook. the great and the pension funds. and the years it took for the pensioners to try and get, to try and get recompense on that. so there are individuals we can all bring up, individuals we can all bring up, individuals ? individuals? >> no, it's not a political point, jacqueline. >> what we are, what we are talking about party, political point in general. what we need is we have is a robust we need a robust tax system that people pay robust tax system that people pay fair tax. i robust tax system that people pay fairtax. i am robust tax system that people pay fair tax. i am with my thatcherite polity policies, basically a low tax, small state politician. i don't want the state taking more tax from you out there or from any of us that waste half of it. half of the

time, the point is, the ultra rich shouldn't pay any tax as much as your money as you, as you can, but we need a fair system to do that. we also need to clamp down. the biggest problem isn't the cayman islands. the biggest problem is the fraud that's within the system and the waste and that's amounting to billions. and that they're areas that we're having to try to tackle as well, whether it's in the social security system, whether it's waste when you're looking at the nhs . i waste when you're looking at the nhs. i mean, when you're looking at great big organisations and because also it's not their money, they're state owned. the waste that comes in, it's not just in the uk. this happens obviously in in other countries. i've lived in four other countries. you know, they all got education and health systems and social security systems and it is a it is a common problem andifs it is a it is a common problem and it's how you then try to deal with that fairly, fairly. but you know, the public, at the end of the day they work very hard. i pay, you know, work for 40 years before you get your state pension and everything like that . but, you know, at the like that. but, you know, at the end of the day that you pay your tax, but i don't see why people

really they're only on a 40. they're on relatively they're not on high salaries, you know, and they pay more than half. well, the ultra rich pay, they're paying more than half they're paying more than half the salaries. >> the ultra rich pay, capital gains they pay themselves selves in dividends. and then they pay 20% tax, not 40. >> a small proportion, basically. yeah. but, of the those employed or living in this country, but they pay a whack of tax for high earners. >> and i'm like, i'm trying not to spontaneously combust on my show. and what. so if people are fine, those are the rules we should change the rules i agree people, so you want so you want to tax, like capital investments and returns capital gains and stuff. you want to tax capital gains the same as income . gains the same as income. >> yeah. i think it should be equalised. >> why? because the money that you're using to purchase said assets is post—tax, because people pay themselves through capital gains. >> so for people watching this, they might be paying 40% on their income. the ultra rich pay themselves 20% because they're earning income not through work, but through wealth, i.e. capital gains. i think those two, i don't think a cleaner should be paying don't think a cleaner should be paying a higher rate of tax than a billionaire who's earning dividends. i think that's

ridiculous. >> yeah, but i mean, you can't it's not like with like just to be clear, you loving the real. >> you have to live in the real world. >> why do you live in the real world? there are many countries where there are broadly equal actually, just to be clear, by the way, these things like your dividend tax and your, capital gains tax and stuff, they're not just random schemes. >> these kind of rates set up for different people. if, to use your example, a cleaner wants to go and invest in something, she's still going to have the same dividend tax as another person would do. >> okay, well, if a cleaner wants to buy, you know, equity in a ftse 100 company, then fine. you know, then we can have that conversation. >> well maybe they do. maybe a very dim view of cleaners. no, no they are. maybe they are having side hustles invested 16 million people in this country have less than £100 in savings. >> they're not investing in the stock market or in the stock market. >> he's underestimating the blue collar sector. there's a lot of wily people who saved up well, bought their houses, bought many people, has. right. >> i've been told. i've been for told two minutes now that i've got a go to a break. so i will pay got a go to a break. so i will pay attention. i'll follow my timings, i'll go to a break.

when i come back. there's lots i want to talk to you about, but

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry. we're still going . we're still we're still going. we're still going in the break arguing about taxation alongside me. of course . i've got baroness, jacqueline foster and aaron. honestly, we could fill a whole hour and then some talking about taxation. very different opinions here. i want to rattle through some more stories though, because lots going on today. let me ask you this. are you overweight ? and if this. are you overweight? and if you are, do you think you should be paid money, incentivised in order to lose it? there was a trial and people were incentivised with up to about £400. that was the most effective group when it comes to sustaining weight loss. aaron bastani your thoughts ? well, bastani your thoughts? well, there's not much money, is it? >> i was expecting somebody to say like 20 grand or something on a minute. >> you two minutes ago you was

explaining that for the most people don't even have £100. fast forward through the break. now he's saying £400. it's not a lot to lose your mind. >> to lose £20 is going to take you about six months. it's not you about six months. it's not you know, it's a long old time, i don't know how much of an incentive it is. look, it's a pilot. if it works and if it saves the taxpayer money, great. i think it's a terrible indictment on society. if that's. if that's what it takes, i personally find it ridiculous, but. yeah, i'm surprised that it's been effective for so little money. frankly >> are you overweight? and let me ask you this. would it take someone paying you to lose weight ? because, i someone paying you to lose weight? because, i mean, come on, let's be frank. now, we all know it's not great for your health to be overweight, is it? so, jacqueline, your thoughts. i feel really bad because i'm asking you about. are you overweight? and then i'm coming to you, as i'm suggesting. somehow you're overweight. i'm not. but your thoughts? >> no. the thing is, i think what always gets lost in this conversation is also about personal responsibility. we all know what we put in our mouths. there is going to end up somewhere. and, what we've also seen i think over the decades

is, obviously with obviously with the way technology has moved forward, we have now probably a lot of children not doing as much exercise and sports and even adults that they would have done normally . would have done normally. >> what people will say, that's a tourist fault for selling off playing fields and well, that's that's not a that's not an argument at all. >> that's what they'll shout. >> that's what they'll shout. >> i can hear them. >> i can hear them. >> however, however, what i would say is you will get some people and they will have a real issue and they may have a medical issue, it could be unked medical issue, it could be linked to all sorts of things. they've had surgery and whatever. and this is where the this is where the nhs comes in. i think gp's have to be in a position where they can actually say to people, you know, you can't continue like this. obesity is proven to, to basically cause several cancers , basically cause several cancers, one of my biggest concerns actually, is that half the children in this country are obese and overweight. and that's horrendous because if you reverse that, if you saw if you saw a child in a family and they

were literally skeletal, they were literally skeletal, they were looking like they'd never got any food. i mean, we'd have social services on the phone like a shot. you seeing children here who can barely walk you know, ten feet out because they're out of breath and people 90, they're out of breath and people go, oh, well, it doesn't matter. well, it does matter. and i think we have to have a really good conversation about this. it's costing the nhs millions. and to me it's about they come up with and they say, well, we can give this drug or that drug. obesity is not about that. obesity is not about that. obesity should be about how do you prevent it? it's no use sticking a sticking plaster on things or they come up, the big pharma come up with a reply , oh, pharma come up with a reply, oh, you know, we've got this drug. this should be about the source of it. how do we stop it happening in the first place? and this is where i think it may be that families need some lessons. why don't they bring domestic science back in schools so that the youngsters know how to cook? you know, there's a whole raft of things. if you've got patients and you're a gp, send them to weightwatchers. i don't mind if the nhs pays for a

course of weight watchers, but equally the people have to go to weight watchers. it's a very good organisation. people aren't sort of left with a milkshake and they can eat a proper meal. they go, there are things that we can. >> jacqueline fixed it, you've almost come up with all the answers. there you go. if anyone's sitting at home thinking, what do i do? how do i lose weight? i'm struggling with it. there you go. she's giving you more than a few. suggest options, lots of people getting in touch. ian says. can you ask, aaron bastani? does he agree or does he take advantage of duty free shopping when he's travelling abroad? >> i don't waste my money on that stuff now, ian . that stuff now, ian. >> ian, i think you got him there. did you waste my money on that? you see that? ian ian says we all avoid paying tax if we could do legally. and he says , could do legally. and he says, absolutely. he indulges, he says in things like duty free shopping. barbara says michelle, you and jacqueline are trying to justify why, tax avoidance. i'm not trying to justify anything.

i'm just trying to be honest. honestly, if you could legally pay honestly, if you could legally pay less tax, would you do so? i'm not talking about illegal tax evasion, am i? i think that most people would try and pay as little tax as they could, then why would you pay more tax than you need to? and by the way, if you need to? and by the way, if you do want to be in that and you're shouting at your screen that you would, off you go then because you can do a voluntary overpayment to hmrc, you can do it now because i've got a break coming up. you can use that time productively over pay voluntarily if you are in that latter camp after the break. there's much i want to squeeze in. but i also want to ask,

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. the conservative peer in the house of lords, jacqueline foster. alongside me, is a co—founder of novara media. aaron bastani graham has been in touch and said, i'm on the side of aaron bastani. his ethical values are much needed if britain is to

clean up its corruption . aaron clean up its corruption. aaron says. thanks, dad, ian's michelle, you are always on the side of the tax avoiding rich can you tell me how much money do you actually think is enough? well it's not for me to tell anyone how much money they want and need. a lot of people are very happy earning minimum wage that supports their lifestyle and they are very, very content. other people want different things. you know what? i do support an open society with opportunity where you can achieve whatever you want. that's what i applaud anyway. look, you might have seen the front page on some of the newspapers this morning. now, what they're saying is sex education will be banned for children under nine years old. good. what took them so long? what do you make to this, jacqueline? >> well, i say the same thing. what took them so long? we've been this sort of, went a bit sort of pear shaped, particularly during covid. there were lots of things actually started to happen within the education system, etc. which we then came to the fore and then

we realised what was happening in many schools, i think that, nine is a perfectly reasonable time for children to start to be introduced to this. i mean, we had evidence where we had six and seven year olds who were being asked whether they were , being asked whether they were, male, female or bisexual, which was ridiculous . we've had this was ridiculous. we've had this entire stonewall agenda, of course , which has been, you course, which has been, you know, throughout the public sector and also the education and health system and, and it was about time that this was actually, sorted out. so i am very happy that our children need to be children. and when it is an appropriate time, they are then introduced into the sort of education that they'll need and information that they'll need to grow into. very well, you know , grow into. very well, you know, happy and healthy adults. aaron, i do find it rather strange that we're teaching children in year seven, i.e. they'll be 11 years old about pornography, but we're not teaching them about contraception until 13. >> i think if they learn about pornography at 11, they'll probably get a hint as to as to

what contraception does. but anyway, i was surprised that children are taught anything before the age of nine anyway. you know, it's shows how out of touch i am now. i have a daughter. i suppose i'll be learning these things a bit more. >> keen viewers of dewbs& co will have heard me rant previously about a situation in scotland where you've got an lgbtq whatever they call them, charity. that's it's supposed to be working with age 13 plus operating in primary schools . i operating in primary schools. i do say often this world, ladies and gents, there's absolutely gone mad. june says. absolutely. this kind of stuff should not be taught to children under the age of nine. paulo says. this is all absolutely key, and he reckons it should be started, at about six years old. he says that's what they do in holland. and he says our approach in this country is backward. do you have any kids, paul? i'd be fascinated to know the answer. >> holland, well, jacqueline's having none of that. >> you can hear her probably chuntering away in the corner. she's having none of it. and she says she doesn't agree with holland's approach. you guys can fight it out amongst yourselves

at home. because before i go, i want to ask you this. do you think the tories should make a pact with reform uk, say, in the next election, jacqueline? >> absolutely not. >> absolutely not. >> oh, why? >> oh, why? >> well, because reform. reform. have a place. nigel farage had a place where the, you know, ukip and we've obviously they've contested elections and the brexit party and we do have similarities in some of our policies, and have done, you know, over the, the last, you know, over the, the last, you know, 20, 30 years, but by the same token, they're not the tory party, we are completely different. and i'd, i don't think it's in anybody's interest. aaron >> well, he's right that, extraordinary measures are needed right now. you're seeing polling for the tories below 20, reform around 15. so if you were to pull reform out of the race, it may save 100 plus tories, i suspect nigel farage will wait for the carcase of the conservative party after the next election to make his next move . move. >> craig. sorry. sean says the conservatives are now a liberal party why should reform bail out

those clowns? he says. ian says the tories only hope of staying in the game is to join forces with reform . speaking about that with reform. speaking about that weight loss situation , dean says weight loss situation, dean says gym membership should be free for everybody that way nobody has got an excuse. really? is that what you want to do? pay for that, malcolm says, speaking of money laundering, my wife was involved in it once. i left a fiver in my jeans pocket. boom boom, aaron, that's all i've got time for jacqueline boom, aaron, that's all i've got time forjacqueline . thank you time for jacqueline. thank you to all, sir. thank you to you guys at home. don't go anywhere. farage up next and i will see you tomorrow night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar , sponsors of weather on gb news. >> evening. welcome to your latest weather update from the met office here on gb news. sunny spells for many tomorrow, but there will be some heavy showers across the south yet again. northern scotland may well see the highest

temperatures as low pressure dominating down to the southwest, and this weather fronts provided a thicker zone of cloud across central areas . of cloud across central areas. that rain from that weather front, though, is tending to peter out , as front, though, is tending to peter out, as are front, though, is tending to peter out , as are the heavier peter out, as are the heavier showers we saw earlier. just a bit of rain just returning to parts of the east coast as we go through the night. for many it will be a dry night, quite murky and misty on eastern coast, and some fog is possible across parts of the south as temperatures generally drop to about 10 to 12 celsius. any mist and fog in the south should be clearing away, so generally out of the way by the time we get to the morning rush hour. but quite a lot of cloud across east anglia and parts of the southeast, where there may well be 1 or 2 showers, some of that rain feeding into lincolnshire as well. generally a fine start for wales. most of northern ireland as well, and a good part of scotland again, dry and fine with sunny spells, the breeze coming in from the north sea, so the east coast will be chilly, but again northern scotland in the sunshine. we'll see those temperatures really jumping up through the course of the day . through the course of the day. it's going to stay fairly dull and cool though. in northeast

england some outbreaks of rain here and we'll see a bit more rain coming into east anglia, lincolnshire then across the midlands during the afternoon, the potential for some quite heavy showers breaking out across the midlands, southern england and south wales, some torrential downpours are possible in the brighter spells in the south 20 degrees, but the highest temperatures likely to be across parts of scotland. in the northwest, 2324 is possible cooler on the north sea coast, with that breeze coming in which is still around on friday, again turning things misty at times. again on friday we'll watch the showers developing across parts of england and wales, especially again . some heavy ones are again. some heavy ones are possible, but they'll be very hit and miss a good part of the day will be dry and bright and in the sunny spells it will feel pretty warm once more. bye for now . how. >> now. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good evening. the conservative government say they want a ban on sex education and relationship advice for kids at primary school. yet wasn't it them that brought this in in 2020? are they being hypocrites? maybe but the subject matters. what is the appropriate age? 50 mps sign a letter to say we should take palestinian refugees. but wouldn't that just mean a whole load of pro—hamas people coming into britain? and today , may we begin this today, may we begin this programme's countdown to the 80th anniversary of d—day, and we ask the question, why do so few british youngsters seem to know what really happened? but before all of that, let's get the news with tatiana sanchez . the news with tatiana sanchez. >> nigel, thank you and good

evening. the top