nation starts now. i'll also be joined by a pugnacious panel this evening. the former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie, and the pr consultant and former labour aide stella santykiu. as always , aide stella santykiu. as always, as you know, i want to hear from you. it's a crucial part of the programme. email me mailmogg@gbnews.com. but now it's what you've all been waiting for. the news bulletin with tatiana sanchez . with tatiana sanchez. >> jacob. thank you. the top stories from the gb news room. a major manhunt is underway in france after two prison guards were shot dead and three others seriously injured during an ambush on a prison convoy. vehicles were rammed at tollbooths on a motorway at anchorvale in the northwest of the country . anchorvale in the northwest of the country. images on social media showed at least two men in balaclavas carrying rifles near an suv that was in flames , as

an suv that was in flames, as the car appeared to have been rammed into the front of the prison van. local media is naming the suspect as mohammed amara, who's 30 years old and reportedly has ties to powerful gangsin reportedly has ties to powerful gangs in the city of marseille . gangs in the city of marseille. the families of three people stabbed to death in nottingham are demanding the killer is never released. after the court of appeal ruled his sentence won't be changed. valdo calocane killed barnaby webber, grace o'malley kumar and ian coates last year. the 32 year old, who suffers from paranoid schizophrenia, was given an indefinite hospital order. a watchdog is warning dangerous criminals are being freed from jail too early as the government tries to address overcrowding . tries to address overcrowding. chief inspector of prisons charlie taylor has raised what he says are serious concerns about the policy, citing high risk inmates selected for early release examples include a domestic abuser who may have posed a risk to children and a man with a serious drug problem,

and a history of self—harm . the and a history of self—harm. the rate of unemployment is at its highest level for nearly a year, while wage growth is unchanged at 6. there were 26,000 fewer job vacancies in the three months to april, while the number of people in work dropped by 85,000. the chancellor, jeremy hunt, struck an optimistic tone, saying that wages are outstripping inflation. but it could be an unhelpful sign for those hoping for a cut in interest rates. work and pensions secretary mel stride earlier said britain's jobs market remains resilient, but and openai has launched a new model of their artificial intelligence platform, chatgpt, this time one that can teach maths, sing and engage in conversation . the gpt four zero conversation. the gpt four zero is free for all users and will be rolled out over the next few weeks. meanwhile a rival called claude is already available across europe . it's being across europe. it's being developed by amazon backed start—up anthropic.

developed by amazon backed start—up anthropic . the company start—up anthropic. the company says a special method of training means the technology is bound by a set of values to avoid doing harm, like spreading misinformation, bias or election interference . for the latest interference. for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts now back to . jacob. >> well, welcome back to state of the nation and i'm sorry i missed you yesterday. i was trying to preserve and protect the constitution. the conservative party scored 19% in a recent yougov poll, compared to the labour party at 48. and the next election poses fundamental questions for my party. but it all comes down to one thing. one question what doesit one thing. one question what does it mean to be a conservative? as when moses parted the red sea today, the sun has parted. hays and confusion of political fog surrounding this question . the surrounding this question. the answer lies in reuniting the

right . what we need is a big, right. what we need is a big, open and comprehensive offer to those in reform. we had this in 2010 to the liberals, who were hardly our soulmates , but most hardly our soulmates, but most members of reform, not a million miles away from most conservative voters and members politically. so the prime minister should offer candidates election to senior members of the reform party, such as the estimable ben habib richard tice and, of course, the one and only nigel farage. the sun's poll has today revealed that if nigel were to re—enter politics with the reform party, they would reach 16% in the polls just a smidgen just 5% behind the tories at 21. in the same poll, when putting these percentages together, it gets us to 37% to labour's 41. now it's not as simple as that, of course, and you know that. and it doesn't take into account. in addition, it would send such a clear message to the electorate of unity, of purpose. and the message here is that we've

answered the question of what it means to be conservative. it means to be conservative. it means slashing net migration down to the tens of thousands , down to the tens of thousands, because every electoral mandate since 2010 has promised precisely this. it means stopping the small boats and securing our borders . it stopping the small boats and securing our borders. it means leaving the oppressive jurisdiction of the european court of human rights, because the british people have had enough of foreign courts extending their powers to interfere in our sovereignty . it interfere in our sovereignty. it means restoring power to elected and accountable politicians who represent you and taking back the powers of the quangocracy. this is everything from the abr to natural england to the climate change committee. it means rolling back the disastrous green agenda, enabung disastrous green agenda, enabling cheap energy. get on to the falklands in a moment and granting freedom of choice. for british consumers, it means rolling back the unproductive legacy of new labour by abolishing the equality act, which has paved the way for wasteful wokery in both the pubuc wasteful wokery in both the public and private sector. it means building more beautiful homes across the country,

slashing the overreaching powers of the labyrinthine planning system. it means implementing supply side reforms that would unleash britain's latent growth and lead to cuts in personal and corporation taxes , whilst corporation taxes, whilst cutting trade tariffs to enable cheaper goods for consumers , cheaper goods for consumers, putting consumers, voters, people first. that is what voting for a conservative government would mean at the next election. if we manage this great offer and it's our only chance of climbing this electoral mountain . for too electoral mountain. for too long, we've ignored our voters because of a fundamental lack of identity. when the largest electoral mandate in british history passed in favour of brexit in 2016, it represented so much more than just leaving the european union, it represented a vote of confidence in the nation state over unelected and unaccountable supranational bureaucracies. it represented a rejection of mass migration , a rejection of the migration, a rejection of the elite who for too long ignored the british national identity in favour of globalisation. the conservative party must represent these people, the very

people who gave us, who lent us their support to give us an 80 seat majority. in 2019, with the help of nigel farage in a conservative government, as a conservative minister with boris johnson probably returning as foreign secretary and welcoming the likes of ben habib and richard tice into our party. as well as pursuing genuinely conservative policies , winning conservative policies, winning the next election suddenly becomes within reach as ever. let me know your thoughts. mail margaret gb news. com. well, i'm joined now by the deputy leader of the reform party, and soon i hope to become tory mp, ben habib. ben, thank you for joining me . we agree on so much, joining me. we agree on so much, don't we, ben? >> we ought to be in the same party. everything you said i absolutely applaud and i'm 100% behind. how could i disagree? you described the landscape that certainly i, nigel, richard and of course yourself pretty suella and a number of others in your

party would wish to see. why wouldn't we? a championing of british private sector taking back control , british private sector taking back control, ditching unnecessary regulations, cutting taxes , taking the burden off taxes, taking the burden off them, working in middle class, getting rid of net zero, which is i've described many times as the economic emasculation of the united kingdom. these are all very common sense. there are even right wing. are they? jacob they're just common sense. you would do this to propel the united kingdom. we've seen what a nonsense. not having borders has made of northern ireland. a border down the irish sea, rather than when it should be between northern ireland and the repubuc. between northern ireland and the republic . a failure to protect republic. a failure to protect our borders to the east. a lack of understanding from jeremy hunt that if you want the economy to flourish, the private sector has to do well. and it's not that we can't afford to cut taxes , it's that we can't afford taxes, it's that we can't afford not to cut taxes. that's where we're at. so i applaud and agree with you 100. but the problem i've got, jacob, is that no

matter what you say, your party doesn't do what it promises. we've heard these promises for 14 years. boris johnson promised a lot of it. by the way, boris is slightly greener, perhaps, than you might like him to be. i think he's pro net zero, but leaving aside net zero for a second, you know, we were promised all of this and we've been promised it again and again and again and i would like nothing more, by the way, than to be put out of politics by a resurgent centre right, pro—british, pro—british people's interest party that necessitate no longer necessitated people like me being in politics. i'm only here, frankly, because the conservative party hasn't been conservative. >> but, ben, i don't want to put you out of politics, because actually, i think people like you who've been successful in business are needed in politics because you need people who are able to make systems operate and to make them work and who believe in things. and one of the things you focused on is the

unity of the united kingdom. and we see with this dreadful judgement of the court in northern ireland, that it is still a member of the european union de facto. and this is absolutely monstrous. >> absolutely. a lot of people have interpreted yesterday's judgement as if northern ireland's court have ruled that the protocol breaches the echr that's not what the court has ruled. the indeed ruled that it's breached european union directives. four of them listed in the annexe, attached to the northern ireland protocol. and that's what happens to a nation when it gives up on its borders. we cease to have coherency at any level. so we've now got a deportation plan. whether or not it works remains to be seen , but it works remains to be seen, but a deportation plan for great britain that doesn't apply to northern ireland. well, what's going to be the result of that? any would be, deportees are going to cross the irish sea to

belfast, aren't they? and they're going to undermine the rule of westminster. they're going to undermine the rule of westminster . the whole rule of westminster. the whole thing is a joke, and we need to get a grip of all of this. and i'm sad to say , jacob, it's your i'm sad to say, jacob, it's your party that has let us down. you know, it's the conservative party, the conservative and unionist party that should really have got a grip of this problem much earlier. >> but what i'd put back to you is that it's because people of your wisdom and sagacity aren't with us and aren't keeping us on the straight and narrow, and therefore the voice of those who are quite left wing is heard unduly , loudly, and we have been unduly, loudly, and we have been led down. this primrose path to undermining the united kingdom . undermining the united kingdom. >> well, one of my biggest concerns in the 2019 general election, apart from the withdrawal agreement, was that i think there were at least 123 candidates. i counted that were standing for the conservative party again for election. that

had voted remain, including famously, obviously, theresa may and i couldn't get my head around how a party that had promised to get brexit done could return theresa may to parliament. you know, it was a kind of contradiction in terms for me , and it sent up lots of for me, and it sent up lots of red flags, which , you know, red flags, which, you know, sadly have been proven to be right. but i would love for you to get rid of your one nation lot. they're the problem, aren't they, jacob? it's your one nafion they, jacob? it's your one nation lot. the lot who think that the prospect of our country is founded in the prosperity of the globe. it isn't the united kingdom must stand for the united kingdom and for the people of the united kingdom. that's who elect us. well, we should learn from america, whose economy continues to grow and has massively outpaced all european economies recently , european economies recently, that thinks of america before it, thinks of the rest of the world. >> thank you ben. i look forward

to you becoming a good tory or remaining a good tory. but being in the same party as me in due course, with me now is my panel, the former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie, and the pr consultant and former labour aide, stella santykiu, stella , aide, stella santykiu, stella, if we were to do this, labour would have something to be worried about, wouldn't they ? worried about, wouldn't they? >> i'm not sure, because i think that the conservative vote is so fragmented that even reform cannot save them. i am not certain that the people who are turning away from the tories are exactly the kind of voters who would go to a reform style party, and that's because a lot of the voters that are leaving the conservatives are , firstly, the conservatives are, firstly, former labour voters in the red wall, secondly, people who are extremely worried about economic inequality and the cost of living crisis and i don't think any of them are convinced that either party will help them. and third, it's all the voters who, as we know, are looking for stability, and they will vote for the safest choice. and the safest choice for them is boring

, keir starmer and rachel reeves. >> well, i'm glad you said keir starmer is boring. poor man. even his own supporters think he's dull , even his own supporters think he's dull, not dull, not dull, just very stable and secure and boring. >> all right. kelvin, well , i >> all right. kelvin, well, i the truth about the matter is it would be a fantastic bet, right? >> it's a roll of the dice and rishi sunak comes from a deal making background . and with deal making background. and with deal makers that is what they want to do. he wants to have a success. what? he certainly knows from that poll and every single poll, is that labour are going to storm home. and the and the remnants of the conservative party won't look anything like their position today. they will be completely done for. so what would be wrong in trying to work out? is there a way we could do a deal? because whatever the deal is, it is going to be ten times better than the current position because the current position because the current position is the destruction for

five years of the conservative party and five years of a labour party, which, if i don't do this very often, if you read the guardian tonight, starmer and co have done a deal with the unions so that the quotes, the workers are going to get more power and it's that kind of stuff which we're going to get every day. so i say to rishi, if he's watching tonight and this is the most interesting debate, i've been involved in with you, jacob, you should think about this. and by the way, it will probably mean you're dumping jeremy hunt as chancellor, which would be a goodidea chancellor, which would be a good idea anyway. >> and how would the labour party respond if this would happen? because the labour party so far has been trying to become more and more and more like the tory party. if the tory party actually became really, properly conservative, that would be quite difficult for the labour party to copy us. >> then i think they would respond with jubilation, because the further to the right the conservatives go, the more the labour party just looks like the centrist, stable, secure party. so i think that if they did anything with the reform party, it would tarnish their image,

because the reform party is and, you know, i don't want to put down the hard work of the of what they've done in the last few years. i think it's very difficult to start a new party, but but they are not a party that looks like it's going to be government. they're not a party that the people would be trusting, let alone the kind of voter who is a loyal conservative party voter would never vote for a third party. >> well, as a loyal conservative party voter, which i suspect you're not, i would say yes , i you're not, i would say yes, i would be very i would be very happy because i am happy because we can't carry on as we are and so that that so, so jacob's solution fantastic . it's big solution fantastic. it's big thumbs up from me. >> well, thank you very much. my panel coming up with half a million visas issued to foreign students last year. is it time to crack down on the racket of british universities ? plus, british universities? plus, could the falkland islands be sitting on vast quantities of oil? a new saudi arabia

? well, in 7 well, in case you ? well, in case you thought i'd forgotten, i am still jacob rees—mogg . and we've been rees—mogg. and we've been talking about uniting the right of british politics. and you've been sending in your mail. moggs. jenny says you are so right. i had a bet with my partner that the only way that the conservatives and reform can sort out this country is to form an alliance. i'm so excited. you must push this forward. get rid of loose cameron's and tobias edwards and go for it. alan, true conservatives have self—esteem and would never lose their values. you get out of life what you put into it. country always first. god save the king. the migration advisory committee today said that the visa route allowing foreign students to stay in the uk for two years after their studies should be retained in its present form. fortunately it's an advisory rather than a mandatory committee, so i urge the home office to reject the committee's finding the graduate visa was brought back in 2019 to attract talented students who

would go on to earn high wages. it has failed to do so. 41% of graduate visa holders earn under £15,000 a year, a figure this committee admitted in its report. they are recruited from countries that are significantly poorer than the united kingdom, with 70% coming from the four nafions with 70% coming from the four nations of india, pakistan , nations of india, pakistan, china and nigeria. the total number of graduate visa holders and their dependents contribute about 10% of total uk net migration and net migration has to come down. but 1 migration and net migration has to come down. but1 in migration and net migration has to come down. but 1 in 60 people in this country arrived within the last 12 months, and this figure is simply too high. and if current numbers continue, it is a mathematical certainty that the nation will change over generations. it always does. but is this a change we are prepared for? are ready for , and have the for? are ready for, and have the infrastructure for? we need to take steps now , and we should take steps now, and we should start by discarding the graduate visa scheme as we did in 2012. well, i'm joined now and delighted to be joined now by vivien stern, the chief executive of universities uk.

thank you for joining executive of universities uk. thank you forjoining me . it's thank you for joining me. it's probably been quite a busy day for you, what does universities uk do ? uk do? >> it has been a busy day for me. i'm on a trade delegation , me. i'm on a trade delegation, today i'm working alongside people from government to promote british exports. and of course , one of the uk's course, one of the uk's strongest exports is education. and we heard from the ministers and the platform speeches how much british education is admired and how much they are influenced by their own experiences of studying in the uk. it's a slam dunk good thing for britain that we have such strong relationships with countries all around the world, because so many people come and study here. >> oh that's brilliant. and lee kuan yew was educated at cambridge and it helped our relationship with singapore for generations . but these many generations. but these many hundreds of thousands who are coming in aren't all lee kuan yew, are they?

>> well, i have to correct you on something that you said in the introduction. the migration advisory committee report, which came out today , did not find came out today, did not find that 41% of students who went onto the graduate route and less than 15,000 in support. how it's in its report. >> so that's there . >> so that's there. >> so that's there. >> let me explain something to you.so >> let me explain something to you. so graduates tend to emerge in the middle of a tax year. and if you look at earnings in one tax year and earnings in the following tax year , and you only following tax year, and you only look at the first half of that, you get a lower figure in fact, what the graduate, what the mac found was that, those people who go onto the graduate route earn a median salary of £21,000 a yeah a median salary of £21,000 a year. that's significantly higher than the home office estimated. and it's broadly , but estimated. and it's broadly, but that's still actually less than the minimum wage, isn't it? >> hold on, hold on. if we want to, if we want to bandy figures, if you hold on, if you work on the minimum wage for 40 hours a

week, for 52 weeks of the year, you earn £23,795.20 a year. so these people who are meant to be these people who are meant to be the best and the brightest globally, are earning 10% less than the minimum wage in their first full tax year. that's not a great contribution. and that helps lower gdp per capita . helps lower gdp per capita. >> so first of all, these are people just emerging for university . and they their university. and they their career trajectories are paying less than the minimum wage . less than the minimum wage. >> uk graduates are eligible for the minimum wage. >> it's a it's a 70 page report. so i'm sure you haven't managed to read it all yet. but the mac finds that in the first year in which a student enters the graduate route, the median salary is 21 k. that's about the same as for domestic graduates. no, it's not, it's 27,000. >> hold on. but that's just not true. it's £27,340 for, domestic graduates, in full time employment after the first year of their employment. so that is ,

of their employment. so that is, is, what, 20 odd 25% more than your figure. so domestic graduates are earning more? >> no. the mac has looked at the data both for uk graduates and international graduates , and international graduates, and they found that the earnings are broadly in line. >> and remember well, the h.s.a is most recent graduate outcome survey and this is actually old. so it will have gone up because earnings have risen. so the hsa is most recent graduate outcome survey says the average is £27,340 for domestic graduates you're going for 21,000. that's massively more so. these graduates are costing us money in terms of gdp per capita. they're not contributing the economy. they are not the best and brightest earners . and brightest earners. >> the graduate outcome survey is conducted 15 months after graduation. what happens to most people ? it certainly happened to people? it certainly happened to me when i graduated, is you start off in your first job. you're maybe not paid that much. you're maybe not paid that much. you probably get some salary progression. >> but you were saying after the first year when i when i quoted

the figure for 41, immediately you said that wasn't a full yean you said that wasn't a full year, you wanted to go full yeah year, you wanted to go full year. now you're saying it's not a full year. you can't have it both ways . both ways. >> let me try and explain it. so in the first year, the median salary salary is 21 k. if you just take a snapshot of the last three months of the first year, that goes up to 20 4k and the still lower than the 27 just being earned relate to whatever figure you're coming up with. >> it's still lower . >> it's still lower. >> it's still lower. >> shows you what it shows you. i can't imagine anybody's enjoying this conversation, but what it shows you is that over time, following the first few months of graduation where people are finding their feet, they're starting what it's showing, what this conversation is showing is that the economic argument for mass migration is bogus. >> the reason people have argued for large numbers of foreign students is that when they earn, they earn significantly more because they're the best and brightest globally. what we have established is that they are

actually earning below the minimum wage age. that's not what we need. that's not good for the economy. >> so we've heard for months from people who are criticising the graduate route that the problem with it is people enter low wage jobs. what the mac report today has done is demonstrated that's really not true. >> they earn less than the minimum wage. >> international graduates are broadly in line with domestic graduates. so it's undermined the key argument. i understand that's not what a lot of what a lot of people wanted to hear, but it's not what the figures show either. >> but thank you very much, vivian. good of you to join me after your busy day with me. now is my panel, former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie, and the pr consultant and former labour aide, stella saint kidou. stella, i'm going to let you go first because you came on this route. so you are living proof that it can succeed. >> can i just say, vivian? well done. you did so well. you did. all of us immigrant graduates proud. and she's exactly right. that's exactly what happens. you leave university . vie. when i leave university. vie. when i left university, at first, i volunteered for a while. i used

to represent people on social security tribunals . i'm sure you security tribunals. i'm sure you would. you would acknowledge that this is a very nice thing to do. and then after that, i was working on very, very low paying was working on very, very low paying jobs. i was giving debt advice in a debt advising community centre. and this is what a lot of other graduates do, and this is what they do, whether they are british or foreign. now, universities depend on foreign students. if we want to reduce the number of foreign students. my question is, is the government going to fund universities so that they continue to have the same standard of teaching that has made the united kingdom the bright example of education that we are? >> the question i would ask there is, do all the universities have this high standard of not all of them? >> if a university is just giving mickey mouse degrees , giving mickey mouse degrees, then sure. >> and hasn't there been a problem with the weaker the university, the more likely they are to take foreign students who then view it as an easy way of getting into the surely, surely there is a way to reform

universities and to make sure that universities that are credible are only the ones that remain open rather than just. you see, i don't disagree with that. no. >> look, 100. i mean, there's one going on right now. all universities are goldsmiths college , where my daughter got college, where my daughter got first right in the most tremendous trouble , loads of tremendous trouble, loads of academics being laid off. university of kent because they didn't do computing, engineering , high end maths. what they did was english. mickey mouse . was english. mickey mouse. degrees, as you say there, there is no there isn't. the 40. so the main thing, the thing that made me laugh about this report was that obviously you need to bnngin was that obviously you need to bring in 40,000 a year. it's a lot of money to be paid. nine area students are down because nigeria itself is flat on its back at the moment. it's by having all this oil. so they sent less less thing. the other good thing to emerge about this was that the number of dependents had collapsed literally by 100,000, which helps towards us having a more stable population in our country. so i'm sure you'd be in

favour of that stellar of dependents, the dependents not coming and only coming with phds effectively. >> i do think that there are cases where, yes, people bringing too many dependents is a problem. yes, i do agree with that. >> and we need to get immigration under control. >> we need to get some integration across. but i still believe that we are locking in decline by by not allowing for by not allowing universities to recruit, foreign students because the global market of universities is increasingly, increasingly competitive and, and education is one of our proudest exports. i agree with vivian on that. so this is what i'm worried about. >> but we want to export it to genuinely the best and the brightest. and that may be in the low ten thousands. it's not going to be well into the 100,000 plus tens of thousands. but this is just an arbitrary number the way that you're going to justify we've got to control migration. yes, we can have it has so many additional costs,

infrastructure and so on and so forth. >> okay. so you're going to not let universities recruit as many students as they have capacity for, which means that their income is going to decrease, which means that their, their, their , their their, their their, their their, their quality is going to decrease , quality is going to decrease, not their quality, not their quality, just not an influx of people who are looking at our country in a rather different way than the way that you have achieved. >> always, i'm afraid we have to move on. but thank you to my panel coming up, vast oil reserves have been discovered in the antarctic, so surely it's time to get drilling in the falklands. and should civil servants be

well, we were debating student visas and the male mugs have been coming. firing in. elizabeth says it's a left wing lie that education is a british export. we import the students, we don't export them. and many never leave. and gary similarly

says, apart from these graduate salaries being lower than uk graduates, they should be going home after graduating rather than staying here now. the falklands may have become the most valuable property on earth . most valuable property on earth. well, possibly it has after russia has discovered a vast oil reserve in the british antarctic territory, around 500 billion barrels worth of crude oil , ten barrels worth of crude oil, ten times the north sea's output, have been discovered in the weddell sea. and if you've heard of the weddell sea before, you're ahead of me. it's in the east of the antarctic peninsula, andifs east of the antarctic peninsula, and it's very much in the uk's territory. however, in antarctica, boundaries are simply claims rather than lines to show ownership. therefore, making this discovery provides the perfect excuse for putin to tip the icebergs of geopolitics . tip the icebergs of geopolitics. any drilling for this oil would represent a breach of the international treaty that has stood in place for decades, banning all activity relating to mineral resources other than scientific research . the russian scientific research. the russian geological agency ross geo , has geological agency ross geo, has insisted that the surveys taking place to announce this discovery

are simply of a scientific nature, but aren't experts right to see the concerning side to this? if putin proceeds well, i'm joined now by seb kennedy, the founding editor of energy flux news, so thank you very much for joining flux news, so thank you very much forjoining me this much for joining me this evening. seb putin has been carrying out scientific surveys and has discovered all this oil . and has discovered all this oil. if there's 500 billion barrels of oil, somebody's going to get it out, aren't they? >> well , are they really, jacob? >> well, are they really, jacob? i mean, let's let's think about this. first of all, this is a very high level, this. first of all, this is a very high level , speculative very high level, speculative estimate, which is subject to a great deal of further work before you can clarify exactly how much is held in place , how much is held in place, recoverable reserves tend to be just a fraction of the reserves in place that are identified . in place that are identified. there are all sorts of constraints to getting oil out of the ground, which means that

the real estimate could be, you know, just 10 or 20% of that, this is an extremely pristine, high value, part of the world. and it's extremely inhospitable . and it's extremely inhospitable. jul very, very hard to, to develop and work in those conditions, and who would finance it? which, which bank or financier would put their money into antarctic oil drilling? >> if it's 10 or 20, that's 50 to 100 billion barrels of oil. so it's still a huge amount. and this was said when the north sea began to be explored, wasn't it, that it was enormously technologically difficult and that technology develops and mankind himars ingenuity is very considerable. and so the ability to overcome technical barriers , to overcome technical barriers, particularly, depending on the price of oil , means that it's price of oil, means that it's going to be attractive for somebody and risk capital is always available. >> yeah. you're right. always available. >> yeah. you're right . and that >> yeah. you're right. and that thatis >> yeah. you're right. and that that is the big risk is that

technological advances make this possible, in tandem with, the declining availability of conventional resources , which conventional resources, which we've seen has given rise to much harder to develop resources such as shale in the us, and there's also the very worrying possibility that non—aligned states would , use their, their states would, use their, their states would, use their, their state funds to , to bankroll state funds to, to bankroll antarctic oil drilling. and that will be an absolute disaster, frankly. >> why would it be a disaster ? >> why would it be a disaster? it would provide more cheap energy. it would help my constituents to heat their homes. it would make our economies grow. this is surely good news. >> is it really, jacob? is that what we want? do we really want to have a kind of a military backed land grab driven by a desperate push for fossil fuel resources? i mean, if anything, military backed that there are very legitimate, long standing claims to areas of antarctica. >> they're well established . >> they're well established. >> they're well established. >> they're well established.

>> they are only claims there's a treaty and the non drilling moratorium in place , which is moratorium in place, which is not up for renewal until the year 2048. if anybody was to break that then it would open the floodgates to a real resource rush in the antarctic, which is the polar opposite, excuse the pun of what we should really be aiming for right now. >> right. thank you. i love bad puns, so i'm very grateful for your last answer. thank you very much, seb. i'm now joined by my panel much, seb. i'm now joined by my panel. the former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie, and the pr consultant and former labour aide stella santa kidu, kelvin. there's gold in dem der hills. i mean, this is just very exciting, isn't it? >> i think it is exciting. my question would be that that that agreement is being held since 1959, in which nobody would come in and just march in and grab minerals of any kind out of out of the out of antarctica. my question is , putin and the question is, putin and the chinese have proved to be no followers of rules. and so i

wonder what would happen? would we end up, would we end up with a war going on out there and if we did, is it possible ? look, we did, is it possible? look, i'm taking the liberal position on this. is it possible that the people who signed up to the 59 agreement could, in fact, actually agree to actually mine the area? >> it seems to me that if you can get an agreement in 1959 with the old soviet union and with the old soviet union and with mao, you can probably edit that agreement even with the people we're dealing with today , people we're dealing with today, to change it so that you can begin to drill earlier and you can work out how to share the resources you might have. >> you may have a point. jacob. i'm not sure. i'm not sure exactly what would happen, but i do agree. it's not like russia is exactly playing by the rules. and now look, i don't think that gas and oil is ideal in any in

any, in any sense. but coal right now, 22% of the world's energy . and if we are serious energy. and if we are serious about fighting climate change, we need to get off coal completely. now, if we don't drill there, then we will continue to be dependent on russia, and russia is going to continue to be able to threaten our national security. and if we want cheap, clean british energy in the future , then the only way in the future, then the only way for us to get there is from getting cheap energy right now, which is going to help our economy grow . economy grow. >> and that seems to me to be absolutely right. >> the other, the other great news about this is wouldn't it be absolutely fantastic if the falklands right, which everybody laughed at us, you know, why are you fighting for this piece of rock? 6000 miles away? right? turned out to be an absolute gold mine. and that the people who were sitting there gnashing their teeth would be the argentinians. it cheers me up no end, i hope. i hope that that they do find, bags of oil within

they do find, bags of oil within the six miles of the falkland islands. >> but it does undermine the argument that you used to be made that we were at peak oil, and we were never going to be able to get any more oil again, and it was always going to become more expensive every time, every time this is said, somebody finds oil somewhere. >> and so look, a 500 billion barrels of the stuff obviously is a fantastic find and would keep us going for ten years. so i'm massively in favour of it. if for no other reason it would keep the just oil protesters very angry. >> i just don't want to us be dependent on an autocratic country that have no interest in tackling climate change. if i trust one country vie to drill oil that is definitely. i would put my money on the uk rather than russia or any other autocratic regime. >> well, nicely said nicely. basically said rule britannia, with which i agree, thank you to my panel . coming up next, should

my panel. coming up next, should civil servants be wearing rainbow lanyards ? plus, have you rainbow lanyards? plus, have you ever wondered why politicians repeat slogans over and over again? have you ever wondered why politicians repeat slogans over and over again? it's because no one's listening

well, we've been discussing the falkland islands, potentially having lots of oil. and ian says not only must we develop oil and gas, we should negotiate with argentine president miley, who is desperate to grow his economy. we have to do the same. so bury the hatchet, set up joint ventures, get these resources out. i hope you don't think me unpatriotic, but actually i broadly agree with that. richard. if the islands are sitting on oil, then we need to reinforce the garrison immediately. that's also a good point. civil servants, as we know, are seldom in the office. but when they do venture into the workplace, they are often seen proudly carrying rainbow

lanyards. these turn out not to be for the nhs or in support of leprechauns, but in promotion of lgbt estimate . bay, formerly a lgbt estimate. bay, formerly a gb news presenter and now the minister for common sense, promised yesterday to ban the practice, saying civil servants should be leaving their political views at the building entrance. reports today suggest, however, that the wording of the actual guidelines makes no specific mention of lanyards, so we may continue to see a pick and mix selection of fashionable woke causes hanging over mandarin chests for some time to come . well, with me now is my come. well, with me now is my brilliant and pugnacious panel. kelvin mackenzie and stella santiago. stella, what colour lanyard do you wear? >> oh, i used to wear a red one with my union when i used to work in parliament, because i'm very proud. >> unite member. having said that about rainbow lanyards, i think there should be no problem . there used to be a time when people working in the civil service needed , needed to hide service needed, needed to hide the fact that they are gay or lgbtq or whatever other identity they held. and i think it's a

thing to be proud about that in the uk, it is so normal to be gay that you can wear your rainbow lie—in lanyard and go into work. now, when it comes to equality and diversity , equality and diversity, policies, if something is a complete waste of money, i'm all for not having it. every measure needs to show some kind of value, but i don't think that any serious prime minister should be allowed to name check cancel culture. in a landmark speech to the entire nation . so speech to the entire nation. so you know what? it's very sad. the uk used to rule 25% of the world, and now we're sitting here discussing rainbow lanyards i >> -- >> that's quite a good point, isn't it? >> it, it. well, it's a point, i think i think the issue about this is if somebody wants to be boastful about their sexuality or, or their endorsement of , of, or, or their endorsement of, of, of sexuality is not necessarily their own unashamed , not their own unashamed, not boastful, just unashamed.

>> yes. >> yes. >> but they want to they want to do it. i don't see why that has to be included in a security pass to get into a building, to be included in a security pass to get into a building , for pass to get into a building, for instance, off air. i learn that jacob, right when he's in the house of commons, does not wear his security pass. and what happens, jacob, why don't you . happens, jacob, why don't you. why don't you wear it? are you are you just being bloody minded about it? >> because i'm a member of parliament by virtue of the constituents of north east somerset. not because some bureaucrats give me a bit of plastic and the right of unhindered attendance at the palace of westminster for a member of parliament or peer dates back hundreds of years. i'm a security guy, right? >> i'm a security guy. and i say to you, in the middle of a lot of problems within security in the country. after all, the prime minister has just spoken about it. i say to you, right, mr rees—mogg , where is your mr rees—mogg, where is your security pass? >> say to me, mr rees—mogg , you >> say to me, mr rees—mogg, you know who i am. you know, i'm a member of parliament and therefore you shouldn't stop me on my way. >> i don't know who you are. >> i don't know who you are. >> i don't know who you are. >> i knew i introduce myself and

i will show my pass to somebody who is new to the palace of westminster and say hello . but i westminster and say hello. but i only expect to have to do it once. >> okay, so what is your relationship with these security guards? >> extremely friendly . >> extremely friendly. >> extremely friendly. >> oh, it is extremely, extremely. okay, going back to the argument, going back to the argument, look, i don't think that the wearing the multicoloured , thing is, is the multicoloured, thing is, is the end of the world. what i, what i can't understand is if you want to do that, why don't you wear a badge and why doesn't the le. your own badge, rather than have to have the government then produce your own lanyard? >> someone handed it over to you. like what does it matter? like it probably costs peanuts. it's really not important. >> what would you draw the line on for a civil servant? if a civil servant wore a lanyard saying vote conservative, just oil. >> yeah, just oil. >> yeah, just oil. >> that is political. >> that is political. >> stop oil, just stop oil. >> stop oil, just stop oil. >> but that is political. what what the linear the rainbow lanyard. the rainbow lanyard , lanyard. the rainbow lanyard, the, i mean, i would be okay with someone saying something about their religion, saying

like that. >> muslims are posting . like that. >> muslims are posting. i'm a proud. >> i would wear my, my, my cross. i would wear my christian cross. i would wear my christian cross to work. >> would you be happy with free palestine if they were wearing a lanyard that said free palestine, in the civil service? maybe i wouldn't do it right now because i think it would be very awkward if they did it right now. >> and isn't it in a way better to be clear and say, you mustn't have lanyards that express a view because you are a civil servant and you are meant to be. >> i think the success of the lgbt movement is such that it's no longer a political statement. to wear something with a rainbow colours . colours. >> to be frank, i thought it had changed during covid to be for the nhs anyway that they'd taken over the rainbow, and that it had become the nhs symbol. i love the nhs. love the n hs. >> love the nhs. >> the whole point about surely the whole point about the civil service is that it's supposed to be neutral on all matters, the rainbow and sexuality. surely not part of going to work. i

mean, it's neutral . mean, it's neutral. >> it's neutral. exactly as you say. it's no longer. >> it is not. it is not neutral. >> if you're saying, i was surprised that you put the argument that you were actually saying in the lanyard , i'm gay, saying in the lanyard, i'm gay, surely what you're saying is i support lgbt, but which is therefore you can't. that is political . political. >> you can't do that. well, there we go. >> and finally, do you ever wonder why politicians repeat the same old slogans? time and time again? perhaps you're bored of hearing about sir keir starmer's upbringing, or that rachel reeves mother's frugality plays in a central role in her desire to grant all power in the treasury to the abr. she wrote to me about this, as you may remember well, a new poll may have just found the answer of those questioned. only 18% of people knew the prime minister's father was an nhs doctor, and i wouldn't have been one of them because i thought his father worked in a pharmacy and only 11% knew sir keir starmer's father was a toolmaker. so in other words, while many of us thought these sorts of things were over repeated, did i

mention my father was editor of the times and in my view, an extremely distinguished one? it seems most of the electorate simply aren't concerned with such matters, which in my view shows the wonderful wisdom of my brilliant, glorious voters in the whole of the british electorate because they care about the future, not the past. a person's policies, not parentage, aren't we lucky to live in such a glorious democracy? and that's all from me. up next is patrick christys patrick. what's on the bill of fare this evening? >> oh, loads. >> oh, loads. >> it's homes for hamas. is the bbc news show, isn't it? homes under the hamas? no, not really. it's labour's policy to resettle palestinians. it's labour's policy to resettle palestinians . universities are palestinians. universities are a racket for illegal immigration. i'll be talking about that as well. nigel farage is live. he's responding to what he said about the world health organisation and we should pull out of it. and paul burrell is on to talk about meghan and harry's charity being delinquent. >> right. well, some of that sounds interesting. you must ask nigel whether whether he wants to join the tory government. that's all coming up. i'll be back tomorrow at 8:00. i'm jake

rees—mogg. this has been saved. nation. the weather in somerset is going to be absolutely fantastic. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hi there. welcome to the latest forecast from the met office for gb news. low pressure remains close to the uk for the next 24 hours and beyond. that means further showers at times, but it's not going to be a complete washout. there will be some drier and sunnier interludes. some places will avoid the showers for long penods avoid the showers for long periods of time. that low pressure is sitting to the southwest. that's where we'll continue to see showers feeding into cornwall and devon overnight, but otherwise drying up nicely across northern ireland, wales into the midlands , southern england staying largely dry in the far northeast of scotland in between areas of cloud, some outbreaks of rain , cloud, some outbreaks of rain, but some drier interludes as well. many places under the cloud staying at 12 to 13 celsius but cooler there as we begin the day for northern ireland. for southwest and west

scotland, some decent sunny spells. first thing, and actually for many places it's a bright day. but there will be this zone of cloud and outbreaks of rain from east anglia into the east midlands, northern england , the far south of england, the far south of scotland keeping temperatures suppressed and some low cloud hugging the north sea coast of scotland and northern england . scotland and northern england. elsewhere, sunny spells and a few showers and it's a similar theme as we begin thursday. this zone of cloud edges north into parts of northern england, southern scotland and then eventually northern ireland. either side of that showers will develop, but the far north of scotland, the far south of england, stays dry and sunny on thursday. friday. further sunny. spells and showers . highs of 21 spells and showers. highs of 21 or 22. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good evening. the top stories from the gb newsroom. a major manhunt is underway in france after two prison guards were shot dead and three others left seriously injured during an ambush on a prison convoy. vehicles were rammed at tollbooths on a motorway at anchorvale, in the northwest of the country. images on social media showed at least two men in balaclavas carrying rifles near an suv that was up in flames. the car appeared to have been rammed into the front of the prison van. local media is naming the suspect as mohammed amara, who's 30 years old and reportedly has ties to powerful gangsin reportedly has ties to powerful gangs in the city of marseille . gangs in the city of marseille. a new report says there's no widespread evidence a post—study visa for international students is being abused. the government's migration advisers say the visa attracted students to the uk and should remain , to the uk and should remain, adding the graduate visa route is not undermining the integrity

and quality of the higher education system. the committee's report says if it were scrapped, universities would lose income from international student fees and have to cut courses . the have to cut courses. the government has said it's considering the findings and would respond in due course. it introduced tougher rules for international students this yean international students this year, which it said aimed to help slash migration . the prime help slash migration. the prime minister is calling on shoppers to back british produce as he hosts the second farm to fork summit at downing street. labour says the conservatives have dnven says the conservatives have driven farmers to breaking point and have pleaded a new deal and have pledged a new deal. sorry, they say, will put money back into their pockets. but rishi sunak told members of the food industries that britain must reduce its reliance on fruit and vegetables from overseas . a home vegetables from overseas. a home office minister says the good friday agreement should not be read so creatively as to cover migration issues. it's after a judge at belfast high court ruled that parts of the

government's illegal migration act