ofa of a class based witch victim of a class based witch hunt, why are so many mps privately educated .7 why does it privately educated? why does it even matter? and do the likes of raynen even matter? and do the likes of rayner, lee anderson and other mps from normal backgrounds get treated differently ? plus, a treated differently? plus, a viral video of a professional golfer on the receiving end of some classic mansplaining. but is condescending to is it always condescending to women? could it just be a thrusting male confidence that we women could emulate? and don't forget to have your say . don't forget to have your say. we are proud to be gb news the people's channel. and as you know, we always love to hear your views. now there's a new way of getting in touch with us at gbnews.com. forward slash your say by commenting. you can be part of a live conversation and join our gb news community. you can even talk to me, bev turner or any of the members of the gb news family. simply go to gbnews.com/your or say . gbnews.com/your say or say.

that's all to come in the next hour with two fantastic panellists for a friday night. but first, the very latest news headunes but first, the very latest news headlines with tatiana sanchez. >> bev turner. thank you. the top stories this hour. the former chief executive of royal mail says he doesn't know if money paid by subpostmasters who were wrongly accused of stealing was recorded as profit. adam crozier told the horizon inquiry this afternoon that he assumed the money was accounted for by the money was accounted for by the company's financial team, but admitted he couldn't be sure. he also said he was not aware that lawyers within the royal mail group conducted prosecutions , and conceded that prosecutions, and conceded that subpostmasters should not have been treated thieves . sir been treated as thieves. sir keir starmer says he's confident angela rayner has not broken any rules after greater manchester police launched an investigation over her tax affairs. it's over the sale of her council house in stockport a decade ago.

questions have been asked about whether she paid the right amount of tax and if it was her main home. in a statement, angela rayner said the questions raised relate to a time before she was an mp and she set out her family's circumstances and taken expert tax and legal advice. >> we welcome this investigation because it will allow a line to because it will allow a line to be drawn in relation to this matter. i am fully confident that angela rayner has not broken the rules . she will broken the rules. she will co—operate with the investigation as you would expect , and it's really a matter expect, and it's really a matter for the police . for the police. >> energy minister graham stuart has announced he is standing down from his cabinet role to focus on local issues . the focus on local issues. the beverley and holderness mp said he plans to focus on issues such as making roads safer, broadband delivery and increasing the number of defibrillators in his constituency . justin tomlinson constituency. justin tomlinson now takes on the role of minister for energy, security and net zero. a passenger on a

tram who was involved in a struggle with a knife wielding attacker has been told he will not face criminal charges, police say . kyle knowles, who police say. kyle knowles, who was 32, was armed with a knife when he boarded a tram in nottingham in june last year. he then launched an unprovoked attack on a passenger, causing serious knife wounds. however, the alleged attacker was himself fatally stabbed during the struggle. nottinghamshire police arrested the passenger on suspicion of murder shortly after the tram came to a stop. they've now concluded that he acted in self—defence . a man who acted in self—defence. a man who attacked and killed another man with a serrated hunting knife in a cornwall nightclub has been sentenced to life in prison with a minimum of 23 years. jake hill, also injured four others in just 20s outside the eclipse nightclub , causing fatal wounds nightclub, causing fatal wounds to 32 year old michael allen, who intervened to protect others. the judge praised the victim's bravery, calling him a man of exceptional qualities. 22 year old tia taylor also received a three year sentence

for manslaughter , and 23 year for manslaughter, and 23 year old chelsea powell was jailed for 15 months for perverting the course of . justice. a 23 year course of. justice. a 23 year old man has denied murdering a good samaritan who died as he tried to help a stranger. the 46 year old chris marriott was on a post—christmas walk with his wife and two young children when he stopped to help a woman who was unconscious in the street. he was killed when a car ploughed into a small crowd following a disturbance in the burngreave area of sheffield. hassan jahangir denied the murder and manslaughter of mr marriott, pleaded guilty marriott, but he pleaded guilty to causing his death by dangerous driving . there are dangerous driving. there are serious shortcomings in the bank of england's economic forecasting methods, to according a report by former chair of the us federal reserve ben bernanke. it found staff were using out—of—date software with functions that could be automated, often performed manually . it comes after several

manually. it comes after several of the bank's forecasts were repeatedly inaccurate during a penod repeatedly inaccurate during a period of economic turbulence . period of economic turbulence. researchers have discovered the cause of the brightest burst of light ever recorded . the light ever recorded. the luminous burst of light, which occurred more than 2 billion light years from earth and just lasted seconds, was so bright it was said to have blinded space instruments. the findings, published in the journal nature astronomy , suggest boats likely astronomy, suggest boats likely origin is an explosion or supernova that came after the collapse of a massive star. for the latest stories, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gbnews.com alerts. now it's back to . bev turner. back to. bev turner. >> all right. good evening, steven, and cope with me. bev turner tonight while michelle is off for still the easter holidays. it is just about joining me until 7:00. my panel

this professor of this evening. professor of politics at the university of kent, goodwin, kent, matt goodwin, and broadcast journalist justicea de silva. thank you both much silva. thank you both so much for joining us this evening. now i want hear from you as well. i want to hear from you as well. gbnews.com forward slash. your say, is our new say, of course, is our new comment section that i'll be looking at throughout the show. so immigration, the echr net zero and trans ideology in the past few weeks, there have been various people calling for referendums on all of these major issues. do we need more direct democracy ? do we need to direct democracy? do we need to have more referendums on major issues ? right. matt, let me come issues? right. matt, let me come to you first. this is something that mentioned one of that you mentioned in one of your recent articles on your most recent articles on your most recent articles on your . what brought up your substack. what brought up this topic for you? >> well, i think that particular article i was, i was looking at what could rishi sunak do to kind of bring back all of those disillusioned conservatives. and i've all of the people i've surveyed all of the people who been over to the who have been going over to the reform party. and look, reform party. and i said, look, what would you back? and what would bring you back? and they well, we want a big, they said, well, we want a big, bold immigration. you bold offer on immigration. you know, want migration

know, we want net migration slashed potentially leave the slashed or potentially leave the european convention on human rights. and my suggestion is, look, one, one such look, actually one, one such offer for rishi sunak could be let's let's , let's let's let's have let's, let's let's really speak to this question about mass immigration once and for all. let's have a national conversation, a referendum on reducing levels of immigration into britain . and i think that's into britain. and i think that's the only thing rishi sunak really could do to try and turn around his fortunes, because what that speaks to actually is a sense that the british public don't feel heard. >> i think possibly more than at any other time. we've had such a disruptive last four years, haven't we, judyta? but what is it at the moment that people feel so frustrated about? is it the fact that we have had unelected prime ministers, maybe . what's going on that people .what's going on that people wish? there seems to be? i think the mood of the nation, and people would tell us at home tonight that we do want to have more referendums on the more regular referendums on the big issues. >> know if it's so much >> i don't know if it's so much about that. i do think it's a knock on effect since what

happened former prime happened with former prime minister where minister boris johnson, where the feel that they the country did feel that they were all clamouring for a certain but was certain outcome. but there was a sort of inaction from people in power. and then question yourself, is the of yourself, what is the value of my if have put you in my vote if i have put you in there to represent me? but when ispeak there to represent me? but when i speak up for an opinion, you do not represent that. but then when think the when you think of the referendums, kind of referendums, you cannot kind of descend where descend into a situation where you who are you have leaders who are effectively in effectively warm bodies in positions let people positions while they let people govern at govern themselves, because at the reason you the same time, the reason you elect leaders is because you believe can find believe they can find a pragmatic middle ground to represent everyone, whether or not conservative not you're conservative or laboun not you're conservative or labour. power, labour. when you're in power, you everyone. you represent everyone. >> mean then, that >> but does that mean then, that there's a sense also that manifestos not been kept to manifestos have not been kept to because it just because we voted? it might just because we voted? it might just be this is because we are be that this is because we are in an election year. so maybe the is clamouring to have the public is clamouring to have their say, it also speaks to their say, but it also speaks to this idea that manifesto promises aren't being met. >> it's always going to be a balancing act, because in every country you have a manifesto that kind of is you waving a

flag saying, this is what i will do on my crusade as leader. but when you get into power, like i said, you have to represent everyone, so you find out what is it i can get through towards that? that manifesto i pledged myself on the closest middle ground without ground i can get to that without alienating effectively other alienating effectively the other side population that side of the population that didn't me. so didn't vote for me. so any leader is always going to get a point that when they then do a like a, they what you like a, they collate what you achieved in achieved during your time in office. how did you meet office. how closely did you meet your markers, knowing that it is impossible meet all of them? impossible to meet all of them? >> think ministers >> do you think prime ministers do do that once they get do wish to do that once they get in office? to keep everyone happy all of the time? >> these big >> well, on many of these big issues we've been talking issues that we've been talking about for example, about this week, for example, you we've gender you know, we've got gender ideology cass review, ideology with the cass review, we've immigration leaving ideology with the cass review, we"echr, immigration leaving ideology with the cass review, we"echr, stopping ion leaving ideology with the cass review, we"echr, stopping the leaving ideology with the cass review, we"echr, stopping the small] the echr, stopping the small boats. think fundamental boats. i think the fundamental problem in many western democracies elites democracies is that the elites who are presiding over the political system also the political system and also the cultural and a large chunk of the media elite to who shape the national conversation don't actually represent the vast

majority of people on these issues. so migration would be a great example . well, we know great example. well, we know that in more 80% of that in more than 80% of constituencies in this country, a majority of people want to dramatically the amount dramatically reduce the amount of immigration into britain. but we also know that the political elites in charge of westminster have been putting the pedal down on that issue, largely ignoring what they promised voters in their the their own manifesto. so the direct democrats would argue, and i'm with them on this one, actually, that when you get a really important issue to voters like brexit our relationship like brexit and our relationship with like migration, i with europe, like migration, i would also argue, what would also argue, like what we're kids with we're doing to kids with gender ideology, view at ideology, which in my view at least nothing short of child least is nothing short of child abuse. and we come back and abuse. and we can come back and talk that. but some issues talk about that. but some issues are so important people, they are so important to people, they actually to be taken out of actually need to be taken out of the daily weekly discussion in westminster. we need to westminster. and we need to decide as community, where do decide as a community, where do we go on that particular we want to go on that particular issue, how regularly, matt, would you have have those would you have to have those sorts of debates to try and keep more of the people happy, more of the time? well, i mean, it

depends. if you look at a democracy like switzerland, they have referendums on much more have referendums on a much more regular think, regular basis. i think, you know, other democracies know, other european democracies and france , they've and netherlands, france, they've had big referendums the had big referendums on the europe question. we've had one on brexit, had one on av on brexit, we've had one on av reform, the election reform, changing the election system. i think it would be very plausible, reasonable for rishi sunak come say, look, sunak to come out and say, look, enough enough on this enough is enough on this question we control our question. we either control our own we don't. so what own borders or we don't. so what i'm going to do is, is take this to the british people and i'm going if you vote for me going to say, if you vote for me in the conservatives, i understand many out understand why many people out there be there would perhaps be distrustful pledge. but distrustful of that pledge. but if me within a if you vote for me within a week, will bring forward week, i will bring forward legislation to give you a referendum on leaving the echr and regaining control of your borders. personally, i think that would be very popular among the voters. he needs to win back. >> would you like to see that, judith? >> judnh? >>i judnh? >> i think that certain things i do agree that certain things have to go to a referendum because they speak fundamentally to the way individuals live because they speak fundamentally to thiprivateidividuals live because they speak fundamentally to thiprivate lives uals live because they speak fundamentally to thiprivate lives every ve because they speak fundamentally to thiprivate lives every day, their private lives every day, like and the gender like the trans and the gender debate i do that

debate 100. but i do think that you open floodgates with you open the floodgates with certain when you certain issues for when you have extremists within the population, because there's always on the one hand, always there's on the one hand, there's conversation about there's a conversation about everyday people feeling that i can't with this community. can't deal with this community. i threats by that i feel under threats by that community referendum, community and a referendum, basically an basically gives you an opportunity power in opportunity to wield power in numbers to oppress them in a way that would only basically would cause a flare up, effectively a quote unquote, civil war. >> never lived in a time >> we've never lived in a time when everything is so binary, like so much division like there is so much division now, could list five topics now, we could list five topics where you have to feel this where you you have to feel this way, and feel this way, way, and i would feel this way, and this maybe would good. and this maybe would be good. then referendum culture, then in a referendum culture, can just push back you can i just push back on you a little on that? little bit on that? >> because when you look at issues we're doing to issues like what we're doing to kids puberty blockers and kids with, puberty blockers and medical transitioning, or when you look at immigration or when you look at immigration or when you stopping small you look at stopping the small boats, the, elite class boats, much of the, elite class would say, well, this is divisive. this is, you know, driving a wedge down, down the country and splitting 50% from 50. i'm a pollster. i know what people think about these issues. and on many of them. and this is

what worries elite on many what worries the elite on many of it's 75, 80% of people of them, it's 75, 80% of people saying, you know what we shouldn't call pregnant mothers, pregnant persons. you know what? we shouldn't allow 16 year olds to change their gender without medical supervision. you know what? levels of what? we should reduce levels of migration because they're too high. you know what? we should do whatever need do do whatever we need to do to control our borders. so the control our own borders. so the reason think the elites don't reason i think the elites don't want to open up this conversation like they did with brexit they know they brexit is because they know they will lose big debates. >> could that be the truth? >> could that be the truth? >> so. i think >> i don't think so. i think it's halfway. think there it's halfway. i think that there should be more referendums when it comes to social issues. the trans conversation a very it comes to social issues. the trans (issue sation a very it comes to social issues. the trans (issue sation you're 3ry it comes to social issues. the trans (issue sation you're talking social issue when you're talking about and structural about political and structural functionality. that is something that is obligated that the government is obligated to take the lead on. that's why you're in that position. so i think you have to delineate like tax, maybe how you structure the nhs. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> because with every individual, my life is very different to yours. when you talk about finances how we talk about finances and how we deal those practical deal with those practical realities. social things are realities. but social things are

more because you have a more unifying because you have a larger swathe of people that can feel the same way. >> social things are often >> and social things are often it's that distinction between the public and the private. actually, social things are often closed doors. but actually, social things are of1a1 closed doors. but actually, social things are ofta way, closed doors. but actually, social things are ofta way, maybe ;ed doors. but actually, social things are ofta way, maybe that'sors. but actually, social things are ofta way, maybe that's the but actually, social things are ofta way, maybe that's the stuff in a way, maybe that's the stuff that difficult to have that is difficult to have a referendum on, because surely that's the as individuals, that's the stuff as individuals, we in control of. anyway >> well, i think there are questions that are existential for community for the national community and our a our relationship with a supranational institution like the eu was one such question, because it fundamentally it was about who are we? it was the biggest question a country can ask what is our identity? and in the same way, questions like, you know, should we should we reduce migration? do we reduce migration? how do we control borders? net zero. control our borders? net zero. should we have more police on the streets? so should we reform our net zero policies? these are these are fundamental questions about national community. about the national community. and that's look the and i think that's look the message of brexit. beverly, i know you know this . and many of know you know this. and many of the people watching was that people actually they want to have voice in politics. have more voice in politics. they want they don't

they don't want less. they don't want more quangos. they don't want more quangos. they don't want unelected bureaucrats. want more unelected bureaucrats. they more of a voice to they want more of a voice to affect the decisions that affect their lives. right. so let's lean into that. let's have more democracy, which doesn't sound party political. >> it doesn't. >> it doesn't. >> but and therefore maybe it maybe right, in terms of the fact that it is just a very small elite, we could call them the globalist elites who want to retain the power and the control of the little people. >> and the last time they opened that can of worms with brexit, it didn't go the way that they thought it might go. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> but then you also have to realise that a lot of the time, the reason it's kind of there's a duality that every individual has where i know i feel, has where i know how i feel, i know what want, i do defer know what i want, but i do defer to you because i know you know more. the minutiae of more. all the minutiae of actually a country, actually governing a country, the that goes above the stuff that goes above the heads population, heads of the general population, and to our and we don't want to spend our time thinking that. so we time thinking about that. so we defer to politicians. >> i'm not sure about that. >> oh, i'm not sure about that. >> oh, i'm not sure about that. >> just on that, just on that.

so one of the popular ideas after have after brexit was let's have let's go rule of the let's go back to rule of the elites. the problem with elites. now, the problem with the elite class, as we've seen this week the cass review, this week with the cass review, is actually what? they're is actually guess what? they're not they're not not as competent and they're not as driven as they like as evidence driven as they like to think about to suggest. let's think about foreign policy. the forever wars in afghanistan , the in iraq, afghanistan, the catastrophic failures in libya, in syria. let's think about inequality and their failure to reduce levels of inequality in this country, or to just control our borders . this country, or to just control our borders. i this country, or to just control our borders . i get very nervous our borders. i get very nervous when people say, well, you must hand over trust and faith in the expert class when, as we've seen again this week, you know, with the cass review, the expert class basically abdicated their responsibility and i don't want to zoom in on that specific example too much. but one of the most shocking things in britain this me was the this week for me was the revelation that many experts were to even were refusing to even participate with that review, were refusing to hand over data and evidence because they put dogma ahead of evidence. >> they put profit ahead of evidence as well. because i

would say in that situation, it was the pharmaceutical companies that didn't want collaborate that didn't want to collaborate with some of the cass review because because lot the because because a lot of the children were effectively guinea pigs children were effectively guinea pigs which, which does pigs in that which, which does sort tie this issue as sort of tie into this issue as well, if the public are well, because if the public are voting on these fundamental issues, also can take away issues, it also can take away some of the power from the people who might be funding various lobbying groups. >> because the >> indeed, because take the echr and i'm taking i'm going to look at it from two perspectives. when a lot of people talk about we do not need a he keeps saying a foreign governing our a foreign body governing our functionality. fine functionality. okay, that's fine . what you have to understand is that when you listen to the discourse in other countries, a lot say uk has lot of them say that the uk has to very mindful that even to be very mindful that even though you have and though you have legacy and influence and prestige, the uk is a small island. that legacy and prestige was built on affiliations and partnerships and coalitions with other countries around the world. if you continuously , continuously you continuously, continuously make moves that make you look like you think you can stand alone against a governing body

that looks after a whole, a whole swathe of countries, then you're alienating yourself and isolating yourself, and then you have to deal with consequence . have to deal with consequence. >> although i suppose the obvious comeback to that would be if you look at the uk, be that if you look at the uk, we are a member of the g7, we're a member of nato, we've just signed are falling signed aukus. we are falling over to sign trade over ourselves to sign trade deals with other countries around the world. this particular echr is particular issue of the echr is really about are we a self—governing, independent nafion self—governing, independent nation that control our own nation that can control our own borders, that can control who's coming in and who's going out, that can deport foreign criminals who are murdering and raping british, people ? or are raping british, people? or are we not? and i think that question to go back to the referendum point, this is as as existential as you can get for nation. >> but do you see how specific you got with describing the problem lines, which anyone would agree with? but what the rhetoric around it is about deaung rhetoric around it is about dealing in numbers cut 700,000 down to 100,000. that doesn't go into the minutiae of the

individual people who ought not to be here, and those who have a valid right to apply to be here and stay. when you deal using big numbers and overall policy to govern something that should be isolated on a case by case basis. you're conflating the arguments. and that's why people get of frustrated about it, get kind of frustrated about it, where those just want where those those who just want to reduce, like just to see numbers reduce, like just make a policy, protect our make a policy, just protect our borders. those who are on borders. but those who are on the receiving end of the the receiving end of what the brunt of that will why am brunt of that will say, why am i being like a war criminal? >> what as thomas sowell once said, immigration is one of the only issues which is talked aboutin only issues which is talked about in terms of how to help people break the law. >> and that's what this conversation always reduces itself to, is how do we itself to, which is how do we help people break law? help people break the law? actually, british people help people break the law? actlthere british people help people break the law? actlthere are british people help people break the law? actlthere are thinking people help people break the law? actlthere are thinking pe0jnuts out there are thinking it's nuts that we've got 118,000 people entering illegally, entering britain illegally, which services, by which the security services, by the way, which we tend to forget, have said is a direct security threat to the country. it needs to be monitored. >> and i think just in terms of this referendum debate, though, one interesting is

one of the interesting things is how the stats recently, how what was the stats recently, matt, about the percentage of immigration thought immigration that people thought there compared to what there there was compared to what there actually wasn't it the actually is? well, wasn't it the people ? i think it's10% actually is? well, wasn't it the people ? i think it's 10% the people? i think it's 10% the average estimate. >> you voters in this >> if you ask voters in this country estimate net country to estimate what net migration the average migration is, the average estimate 70,000 a year. now, estimate was 70,000 a year. now, of reality is it's of course, the reality is it's 700,010. yeah. now, as you're right, actually, the echr issue won't fix legal migration. right. so that's about government policy. but in terms of doing what we to can defend our national borders, to deport people who break the law, leaving the echr, i think will be the next logical step in this debate. okay, our viewers are loving you two tonight, by the way, and i'm this new way, and i'm loving this new gbnews.com forward slash your say system, tony has said governments don't like referenda. they'll always reflect of the people, reflect the will of the people, which invariably at odds with which is invariably at odds with what establishment what the ruling establishment has for has decided is best for themselves, and keep their bums on green benches for long on the green benches for as long as possible. keith makes as possible. and keith makes a good point. why not a good point. why not have a referendum at same as good point. why not have a refielection at same as good point. why not have a refielection covering|me as good point. why not have a refielection covering the as good point. why not have a refielection covering the current an election covering the current social immigration,

social issues like immigration, climate change, zero, so climate change, net zero, so that elected, cut that any elected, cut organisation is government is required to enact . right. keep required to enact. right. keep your messages coming. great start guys. thank you so much. now next how much of your salary do you spend on rent. because the latest statistics are absolutely staggering . this is absolutely staggering. this is dewbs& co on gb news with

bev turner. welcome back. dewbs& co with me. bev turner keeping me company until 7:00. professor of politics at the university of kent , matt goodwin politics at the university of kent, matt goodwin and broadcast journalist judith silva . now, journalist judith da silva. now, before we get back to the show, we've got some breaking news. we're to go live to gb we're going to go live to gb news political editor christopher got christopher hope, who's got some, information about some, latest information about this story . good this angela rayner story. good morning. good morning. you see, i'm on in mornings , i'm normally on in the mornings, chris, i automatically say that. good you, chris. nice

good evening to you, chris. nice to see you after midday. right. what's happening with angela rayner and this capital gains tax furore that can't escape i >> -- >> that's lam >> that's right. and good evening, bev, and good to see you to know it's not it's not just capital gains tax. it's also confusion about whether she was living at this address, that she in the house that she sold back in 2015, under pressure all day labour backed her, but she put out a statement just now , put out a statement just now, just before 6:00, saying that she will now sit down with the appropriate authorities, including the police and hmrc, to set out the facts and draw a line over the row over this home in manchester. and, crucially, she says she will resign bev if she's found to have committed a criminal offence . i will say, as criminal offence. i will say, as i said before, if i committed a criminal offence, i would of course do the right thing and step down, she adds. here the questions raised relays relate to a time before i was an mp, and i will set out my family's

circumstances and take an expert tax and legal advice. i look forward to setting out the facts with the relevant authorities at the earliest opportunity. that's advice she had already taken, and so far, sir keir starmer has refused to ask to see. of course, sir keir starmer and others in labour are backing angela rayner as things stand. but this means i think it does raise the temperature in this story. it means that if the police do, find criminal wrongdoing and that would be relating most likely to whether she was telling me the electoral register in an address she wasn't living in at the time. if that's the case, she will resign. >> what would that mean for the labour party and sir keir starmer? christopher >> it would be very, very damaging. angela rayner consistently polls very, very highly. she's well regarded by, labour voters and activists. i think even , some people who think even, some people who voted for the tory party in 2019 and a red wall, they look at her

and a red wall, they look at her and like her and like her honesty and transparency and this whole saga has caused damage to her. i think politically, she hasn't done many interviews. she's been quite hiding, hiding away and not being out, out, fronting up as as well as she would have done.i as as well as she would have done. i think she's a chance here to draw a line. the problem she's got is how long it will take. a police investigations can take months, and it could be that this whole issue raises its head on the eve of a of a likely general election , as i see it in general election, as i see it in late november. if that happens, he could have quite a bearing on that campaign. we'll wait and see. is quite secure, see. she is quite secure, though, bev, because she's elected by members of the labour party. so sir keir starmer can not sack her, she's there because she's voted in by party members. so it would be up to her to resign were she to go. of course, as things stand, has been making very clear, she maintains she's done nothing wrong at okay wrong at all. okay >> all right. thank you.

christopher, greta, let me come to you first, because this actually ties in perfectly with the issue that we're going to be debating anyway, which is whether from , let's whether politicians from, let's call them class call them working class backgrounds, school backgrounds, state school educated , are given different, educated, are given a different, level of tolerance, let's say, than the classic eton public school boy set, because she has definitely been, under the cosh with certain areas of the media, let's say, in terms of this particular story, in a way that i don't think necessarily some of the boarding school, public school boys have. >> i think it works both ways, because i always say that there's this weird , catch 22 in there's this weird, catch 22 in politics where it's a dirty game. i expect all players to be squeaky clean, which is impossible. but then from as far back as when we were learning in school about gladstone and disraeli, there's always para political discourse about on socioeconomic lines, on class lines. it's part of the playing

field. when you're in politics, who you are, where you came from and do you have a right to be here? but what you've seen over time is that being of being working class, being blue collar really the needle when it really moves the needle when it comes voters because they see comes to voters because they see themselves in you. so it's it works against the posh elite because people think, like we've said, that has been mentioned this evening. you're out of touch. you don't represent me. you look down on me. you deign to represent. >> why aren't there more people like politics? like that in politics? >> because almost like what >> because it's almost like what happens when you're like when they are bred for they say people are bred for politics or bred for power. it's something you kind of commit to very early on on a knife, or your parents commit to what you'll find is that with working class or lower middle class people, don't have the same people, they don't have the same stability financially their stability financially from their parents or grandparents. for that plan to be put in action when it needs to be, so that by the time you're now in the playing field, your pedigree is already be already pre—polished to be entering that gaming landscape. >> we can of name them

>> we can kind of name them matt, can't we? the famous politicians that weren't from the right the tracks. the right side of the tracks. john prescott is what? the john prescott is the what? the really famous lee anderson really famous one. lee anderson and lee anderson and tony blair put prescott in there, arguably for the reason that greta was saying, because tony blair was kind of ish and he appealed kind of posh ish and he appealed to, you know, your sort of hedge fund managers. and yet, john prescott, we're seeing the footage here, the famous footage of him, which really played into that stereotype that he was a thug like, you know, dragged up from streets. he was there from the streets. he was there to offset the blair public school cabinet, which was huge . school cabinet, which was huge. >> well, working class politicians are so noticeable in this country because there are so few of them. and if you look at what's happened in the house of over the last 30, 40 of commons over the last 30, 40 years, the data on mps, the years, from the data on mps, the share of mps from working class backgrounds has collapsed to a historic low. i believe there's only 7% of mps, are from working class backgrounds. meanwhile, the number of mps who belong to

the number of mps who belong to the university class, who belong to the more elite university class oxbridge or russell group, university cities has never been higher. the number of mps who have always been in politics have always been in politics have been local. councillors have been local. councillors have been, political party media officers has never been higher. so westminster has become more like an insular club, if you like. but, you know, it's not just politics, it's media. much of the media to creative industries, cultural institutions. i've written about this before. if you're working class , if you haven't gone to class, if you haven't gone to university, if you're not from london, if mummy and daddy aren't very rich and well off and connected in london circles, and connected in london circles, and if, god forbid, you also happen to hold cultural, culturally conservative views or anti—establishment views, then look, i mean, the deck is stacked against you in a, in a in a whole array of institutions. >> this, this current shadow cabinet at the moment, which might end up being our government, only 13% of them went to private school. starmer went to private school. starmer

went to private school. starmer went to a grammar school, which then actually became a private school. while he was there. but doesit school. while he was there. but does it matter? >> judita it doesn't matter because it's it shouldn't matter , but it does matter because it's kind of like when they say when you get in the ring, how good are your gloves? >> because at the end of the day, whoever you're picking to be leader is going to be getting into the ring with the best of the best the world. so do the best around the world. so do you pedigree, the you have the pedigree, the preparation and basically the wherewithal to represent the country against anyone who's put in the ring with you? and that's what it's it is the deck is stacked against them because you don't have the input the don't have the input and the infrastructure made available to you to begin to be cultivated, to occupy these kinds of positions and the expectations of you you're in them. of you when you're in them. >> you could be as >> but you could be as intelligent as. >> yeah, but let's just >> yeah, yeah, but let's just remember, profound remember, this also has profound consequences, because who represents trickles represents you then trickles down into the policies that affect your daily lives into the decisions that shape our

country. so there's a wonderful i mean, i've written about this on substack, but there's a wonderful book called diploma democracies, which has shown how across the west, as legislatures have with, have become filled with, you know, , university know, elites, university graduates from very privileged families that tend to share the same values, that tend to see the world in the same kind of way. what's happened is that the policy , the policy process and policy, the policy process and all of the decisions coming out of parliaments, around, around, around democracies around those western democracies have the interests of have reflected the interests of that elite class at the expense of everybody else. so what do we need to do? we need to get more working class voices into politics. we need to get more non—graduates into politics. you can't challenge the system unless back the unless you go back to the beginning, are you? unless you go back to the bngou're, are you? unless you go back to the bngou're, arequipped to the >> you're ill equipped to do the job at of the job because at the end of the day, no one's saying that you can't come. who you not can't come. who are you not stepping for? the job is stepping up for? the job is because they don't feel equipped to and always to do it. and i've always said like, there's difference like, there's a difference between local between west minster and local governments. matters more governments. it's matters more to the everyday person who who's with who's on the with you? who's the boots on the ground? those should be more

representative class, representative of working class, blue because blue collar people because you're in trenches you're there in the trenches with everyday, everyday population and that will then be a on effect at the top a knock on effect at the top because like say , when it because like you say, when it comes an election, you comes to an election, if you don't have the soldiers don't have all the soldiers marching in the same direction as party falls apart. as you, your party falls apart. if they are the working class and are the representation if they are the working class anthe are the representation if they are the working class anthe people, 1e representation if they are the working class anthe people, 1e re|willentation if they are the working class anthe people, 1e re|will speak1 of the people, they will speak to the leadership. >> issue there, and i >> the only issue there, and i agree with you, is, as we saw with brexit, there is enormous class prejudice in this country and when of the and when many of the institutions, the civil service, government prominent government that many prominent newspapers, many prominent journalists, the reason they struggled things struggled with things like brexit it was brexit is because it was overwhelmingly driven by ordinary working class people. and so when they were using words like gammons and bigots and thickos, most of those people , by the way, having gone people, by the way, having gone to oxford, studying ppe, living in london, oxford, cambridge, what that reflected to me , at what that reflected to me, at least as somebody from a pretty ordinary working class background, was this enormous amount of class prejudice in this country that we see playing

out every day, every week. i think many of the institutions they have need to ask themselves why aren't there more normal, ordinary people in those institutions? need reform institutions? we need to reform the in this the institutions in this country. basically country. we need to basically open them up to a much wider array of perspectives . array of perspectives. >> your state school educated, so am i. you're privately educated . and did anybody ever educated. and did anybody ever say to you you should be a politician ? politician? >> when did my standardised >> when i did my standardised testing, it that all go testing, it was one that all go into stock and into this . into stock and into this. >> stocks and shares, stocks and shares. >> but the last thing we need are more bankers in politics. >> yeah, but how about you matt? >> yeah, but how about you matt? >> did anybody ever say to you. because, listen, our inbox is very much wants you to stand as an mp listening to you tonight. >> of >> it's interesting. a lot of people the, substack that people on the, the substack that we've they say the same we've got, they say the same thing because for lots thing because i think for lots of who are watching and of people who are watching and listening, we can all sense the same thing, right? is that same thing, right? which is that our politics and national conversation represent the values, tastes the values, the tastes and the priorities of this priorities of 10% of this country. so on a whole array country. so 90% on a whole array of issues are feeling as though they're not even in this

conversation at all. and i feel that when you turn on, you know, the media in the morning and so on, and you look at the decisions coming out the decisions coming out of the house commons sometimes house of commons and sometimes on in and when driving on the way in and when driving into britain's newsroom, i put on programme on radio four. >> but you something like that's an ironic point, detached from most i think most people that i know. i think it's because what it's ironic because from what everything said , the everything you've said, the glaringly solution is glaringly obvious solution is what call affirmative what americans call affirmative action. because when you think about a lot of politicians, we would call positive discrimination, basically. yeah, because as things like a ppe from oxbridge, that's kind of like the bread and butter of most politicians in westminster. it's like a rite of passage to getting there. if you had a quote unquote affirmative action policy in universities like oxford and cambridge for people from lower income families, because they're exceptionally intelligent in state intelligent people in state schools and gave them access to that, then you're starting to offset the imbalance. >> better yet, why don't we even move away from this assumption that people dominate our

that people who dominate our national life don't have to have gone to university? i mean, there is a discussion beyond that, which earth are that, which is why on earth are all our institutions all of our institutions dominated by elite graduates? why can't just have some why can't we just have some normal, people? normal, ordinary people? most most this country, most people in this country, remember, to remember, have never gone to university , right? university, right? >> that's when i say goes >> that's when i say it goes back to the expectations of playing in the global field. there are certain levels of conversation styles conversation and certain styles of discourse discipline of discourse that the discipline that drummed into you by that is drummed into you by higher education prepares you for. do you want the best kind of politician representing you or you? or don't you? >> we've got to take >> we've we've got to take another break, i'm afraid. but you're all giving me time you're all giving me a hard time saying johnson didn't saying that boris johnson didn't get for partygate. i get told off for partygate. i know did. i know that, but know he did. i know that, but i think it's a little bit more complicated than that, right. next we're going to be talking about salary about how much of your salary you rent. the you might spend on rent. the figures unbelievable. this figures are unbelievable. this is

gb news. welcome back. dewbs& co with me. bev turner. this friday evening. now, 1 in 5 tenants are spending over half of their salary on rent, with an estimated 11.6 million people privately renting across the uk. this means that roughly 2.3 million tenants are spending over half of their pay before tax on rent. how now have we got here? matt goodwin well , we got here? matt goodwin well, the short answer is we have a housing crisis, which nobody in politics is really prepared to deal with head on. >> rents are going up because demand is massively outstripping supply. so on the one hand, we're not building enough houses and we're not easing planning to build those houses. but secondly, let me say something controversial. i've said on controversial. i've said it on this channel before. we've got way people coming into way too many people coming into the just going to the country. i'm just going to give one stat. last year we give you one stat. last year we built 180,000 in this built 180,000 homes in this country. target built 180,000 homes in this co300,000. target built 180,000 homes in this co300,000. if target built 180,000 homes in this co300,000. if you target built 180,000 homes in this co300,000. if you atarget built 180,000 homes in this co300,000. if you at allet is 300,000. if you look at all of credible estimates of of the credible estimates of what we need to build going forward, to up with forward, just to keep up with demand this ever growing demand from this ever growing population, need

population, we're going to need to build 550,000 homes every yeah to build 550,000 homes every year. we are not even coming close. so if these rents are high, beverly, just these rents are high. just just wait five years. >> is that the problem? >> is that the problem? >> that is that is partly the problem. >> but then also remember that this is the knock on effect of the pandemic, because you had a penod the pandemic, because you had a period where landlords had tenants in homes that weren't paying tenants in homes that weren't paying rent and they couldn't evict they're evict them. so now they're heaung evict them. so now they're healing and also healing from the hurt. and also with release of the kinds of with the release of the kinds of restrictions were put on restrictions that were put on rent on landlords, rent increases on landlords, they're recouping costs, they're kind of recouping costs, retroactively. because retroactively. and also because you've got a situation where people who are working don't earn enough money to buy homes, they have to rent for longer. and while they're renting, they don't earn enough money to put money away to save for a home. and so now you've got what was what's was originally what's what was originally thought. people in their 20s, singletons, it's singletons, they rent. now it's families are renting for longer. >> well, since lockdown , since >> well, since lockdown, since the pandemic, rent risen by the pandemic, rent has risen by 29. that's huge. and i know what

you're saying about there was some houses which couldn't be rented out, but was that really the case? i think it was because even when i moved into my new flat, when we were looking, the number of stories where agents were like we when they do were like we have when they do your financial check, you need to least be earning to have at least be earning almost three times two and a half to three times what the rent is, because previously their had been there for their tenants had been there for six eight months and weren't paying six eight months and weren't paying rent and couldn't be evicted. >> so now the landlords are kind of getting retroactive payback, right? >> and and perhaps being >> and yeah, and perhaps being greedy, greedy. greedy, being greedy. >> but i think fundamentally we have got a crisis here that is so big. and politicians on both the left and right are putting their heads in the sand. i mean, ihave their heads in the sand. i mean, i have i have to come back to this point, you know, if you wanted to get a flat in london, as you know, on average you're competing with, they think, between 30 other people. between 20 and 30 other people. many by way, are many of those, by the way, are not britain. i think we not from britain. i think we need to about having some need to talk about having some sort principle of national sort of principle of national preference the housing sort of principle of national preferen la the housing sort of principle of national prefereni don'tie housing sort of principle of national prefereni don't think sing sort of principle of national prefereni don't think houses and

market. i don't think houses and flats should held in offshore flats should be held in offshore trusts offshore companies. trusts by offshore companies. i think that's all that stuff think that's all of that stuff needs be looked at and needs to be looked at and changed. but more fundamentally, needs to be looked at and changewe're: more fundamentally, needs to be looked at and changewe're: more to 1damentally, needs to be looked at and changewe're: more to be mentally, unless we're going to be building 400,000 building another 300, 400,000 homes the homes every year for the foreseeable while running homes every year for the foreselevels while running homes every year for the foreselevels of while running homes every year for the forese levels of migration,jnning homes every year for the forese levels of migration, we're| these levels of migration, we're not going to fix this crisis. so here's a simple thing i would say to every politician in westminster. you can have available affordable housing or you can have mass immigration. you cannot have both. >> great way to end because we going to talk about mansplaining next. that wasn't mansplaining. that was that was a very succinct answer. that was brilliant, right. mansplaining. maybe it's just a show of strength from men who are more confident than us women. we're going debating dewbs going to be debating that. dewbs & on

gb news. six dewbs & co with me. bev six dewbs& co with me. bev turner keeping me company until

7:00. professor of politics, university of kent. and professional pollster matt goodwin. and broadcast journalist judith silva. journalist judith de silva. i love this show. it's fizzy friday, everybody. so cheers. don't give me this in the morning on britain's newsroom >> i need it after this week. i mean depressing stories all round. >> it's been a it's been quite the week matt. you're right now we're talking about mansplaining. have you ever been we're talking about mathelaining. have you ever been we're talking about mathe receiving ave you ever been we're talking about mathe receiving end you ever been we're talking about mathe receiving end of] ever been on the receiving end of a patronising man trying to help you? well there's one clip. it went viral. it was around a little while ago, but it's making the rounds again. now it's professional golfer georgia ball, practising great ball, who was practising great name golfer . and this name for a golfer. and this is what happened . excuse me . you what happened. excuse me. you what happened. excuse me. you what you're doing there? >> you shouldn't be doing that. you should be right through. >> swing and follow through. not >> swing and follow through. not >> you're doing too slow on the way up and then back . way up and then back. >> okay, i'm going through, i'm going through a swing change at the minute, so everything i'm doing there is you coming back

too slow. >> you know, i've been playing golf for 20 years. >> what do you need to do? is follow through a lot quicker than what you're doing there right now ? right now? >> yeah. so, i mean, i'm going through a swing change. so with that, i'm just making everything up. no. >> if you're listening on the radio, this is professional golfer georgia ball who's practising her swing. when a guy off camera has basically come and said you're not doing that properly, you need to do it slightly differently, and she's being polite to him in her being very polite to him in her scouse accent. here she goes. she's a great right. she's got a great swing. right. so this this brought up this issue of mansplaining . and i issue of mansplaining. and i don't know, maybe maybe we give men a hard time judita what's going through the mind of a man who sees a professional golfer and decides to give her some tips? >> i mean, because even though because people were saying like, oh, is it so bad to explain? >> but look at the execution. she's done her swing and he goes , what you need to do is make that he would not execute

that a man. he would not execute it that way. that's where the mansplaining comes in, because the to think that the entitlement to think that you to stranger you can go to this stranger because what seen is a because what he's seen is a pretty girl playing golf. so it's oh, sweetheart, it's like, oh, sweetheart, you need this better at need to do this to be better at what you're doing, because i know, but maybe we can learn something from men doing that. yeah, it's the yeah, that's why i said it's the execution. there's way to have execution. there's a way to have gone and say, like, oh, gone there and say, like, oh, i just was watching your swing. could just be like, could i just say and be like, oh, yeah, sure. let her invite your suggestion and then give it. >> but what i mean is, sorry, my question rubbish. what question was rubbish. what i mean maybe as women should mean is maybe we as women should do explaining do more women explaining like there's behind that there's a confidence behind that man can do that man saying, oh, i can do that better you love him. go on. better than you love him. go on. are a mansplainer? matt i'm are you a mansplainer? matt i'm not sure. >> well, you know, if you were , >> well, you know, if you were, i would like a golf lesson off george arbour. >> yeah, i would like her to teach me how to play golf. because i really want learn because i really want to learn to if you're watching to play golf. if you're watching georgia, me on twitter, but georgia, dm me on twitter, but the in all seriousness, i think in of in in the world of politics in westminster, i think it is slightly in that most, slightly different in that most, most the women know in that

most of the women i know in that community very confident, community are very confident, outspoken, and it maybe it's less it might be less prominent than it might be in , but that's the kind in sports, but that's the kind of instinctive reaction. i think also, has a very strange also, golfing has a very strange culture to it as well. i think it is very, you know, it's all about the clubs and the bars and the, you know, all that the, you know, all of that stuff that it. it's sort of that goes with it. it's sort of very heavy. very male heavy. >> does in your life then >> does does in your life then in the, in the circles that you move in. >> have you ever had a woman come to you in a professional come up to you in a professional environment and say, matt, i think, know, when you do think, you know, when you do your thing, you're not your polling thing, you're not quite questions quite getting your questions right. i haven't. right. you i haven't. >> all the time. >> well, not all the time. i mean, i have a lot of women who say things like, i read your book i read substack, book and i read your substack, and 80% of what and i disagree with 80% of what you isnt and i disagree with 80% of what you isn't that different? >> because that's not mansplaining. is it, like, just just say so if they came to you and said, i read your book, you got it wrong. you needed to do it like this. yeah. is it something about the delivery? >> because just saying to you, i suspect >> because just saying to you, i susp> i mean, i definitely i definitely have received a lot

of criticism, substantive criticism , from women, but i criticism, from women, but i haven't interpreted that along the lines of them being women. it's just criticism that i've received for things that i've said, whereas i think probably i'm going to come back to the other side of the panel. i think probably the way which it's probably the way in which it's delivered. that video delivered. and that video was a bit cringe. >> because when you look >> yeah. because when you look at the dynamics, she's a professional golfer. >> but that as the >> but we knew that as the subtext. in that moment subtext. but in that moment you're golf then you're playing golf and then from the back just hear what from the back you just hear what you to be doing. is that you need to be doing. is that already yourself as already positions yourself as a position authority, that position of authority, and that is the platform which you say is the platform on which you say where mansplaining from, where mansplaining comes from, where mansplaining comes from, where down on on where i'm looking down on you on a and i'm better than a point and feel i'm better than you and you require me to be better. >> what is interesting, though, is the point that you made because research there was some. >> one of the university did some research onto this, and they found that when women were mansplained to, they took it as a criticism of them and their ability vie, whereas when men were similarly condescended to

or were talked down to, they didn't when they were questioned, they didn't take it as a slight. yeah. and that's all credit to men. >> no, it's power dynamics. because when you exist in a situation where based on just biology and physicality, men are physically stronger, you are a woman is not seen as a threat no matter how she approaches you. we have to constantly, existentially navigate a sense of potential threat and whatever situation you're in with a man. >> i had a conversation with a female friend about this recently who made that point explaining how different it is for women to navigate almost every social situation, and having having a daughter, being very conscious of the things she's going to have to experience along those lines. the one thing that makes me nervous, though, about mansplaining and this is probably the where i get probably the bit where i get cancelled never appear on gb cancelled and never appear on gb news ever again. >> oh, that won't happen. we have to. >> we? we also have to be careful to create a climate careful not to create a climate and people and a culture where people become about what become so anxious about what they and cannot say that we

they can and cannot say that we never have any meaningful conversations like, conversations at all. like, i could feel myself in this conversation holding back, thinking, on a thinking, well, hang on a second, what's what's correct? what what scary ? what is, what's what is scary? >> had to do was say like, hi, what's your swing? could i possibly something? possibly suggest something? okay, sure. >> and actually, it >> and actually, maybe it wouldn't >> and actually, maybe it wotwell , and know what? >> well, and you know what? >> well, and you know what? >> it is sexist. because >> because it is sexist. because there no woman splaining. we there is no woman splaining. we need to have woman splaining and mansplaining, do mansplaining, right? i might do a monday morning. mansplaining, right? i might do a be monday morning. mansplaining, right? i might do a be back monday morning. mansplaining, right? i might do a be back on monday morning. mansplaining, right? i might do a be back on 930. day morning. mansplaining, right? i might do a be back on 930. thank)rning. mansplaining, right? i might do a be back on 930. thank you g. i'll be back on 930. thank you so much, judith and matt. up next, lee anderson. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar, sponsors of weather on . solar, sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> good evening. here's your latest gb news. weather update from the met office. showers for many of us this weekend, but towards the southeast something a and that's a little bit drier. and that's because we have high pressure dominating over the near continent. further north though, a frontal system is pushing its way through and that's going to bnng way through and that's going to bring further outbreaks of

bring some further outbreaks of rain parts of rain across some parts of scotland into northern england as we go through the night. also, strong gusty winds also, some strong gusty winds and few showers the and a few showers towards the northwest scotland, but northwest of scotland, but elsewhere largely we go elsewhere largely dry as we go through early hours of through the early hours of saturday and some clear saturday morning and some clear skies. despite skies. but despite these temperatures huge temperatures not dropping a huge amount a touch cooler than last night, a relatively night, but a relatively mild start on saturday nonetheless. first thing, could be some first thing, there could be some murkiness, some low cloud, perhaps around english channel coastal otherwise, coastal parts, but otherwise, particularly towards the south—east, going to be south—east, it's going to be a largely fine day. a decent amount of sunshine, a bit more cloud rain across cloud and some rain across northern parts of northern and western parts of england wales. nothing heavy england and wales. nothing heavy here. downpours, here. the heaviest downpours, likely of scotland , likely across parts of scotland, could be some gusty winds here too. temperatures will be down a nudge compared to today, but still a little bit above average for the time of year into sunday. and it is going to be a fresher for all us. there fresher day for all of us. there will be plenty of showers piling in across parts northern in across parts of northern ireland particularly ireland and particularly scotland. some heavy, some thundery hail thundery could be some hail mixed further east mixed in further south and east across the bulk of england and

wales. it's actually looking like dry with some like a largely dry day with some decent more showers to decent sunshine. more showers to come through monday come as we go through monday into is going into tuesday, but it is going to be noticeably fresher than it has been of late. >> by by looks like things are heating up. boilers heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> welcome to the andersons rail world. got a cracking line up tonight. got bill etheridge, former ukip mep matthew stadlen, political commentator . is our political commentator. is our left in the corner. is going to

be going head to head with benedict spence. we're going to go back in the day with former wilfred emmanuel—jones . we've wilfred emmanuel—jones. we've also got glamour model danielle mason. but first let's go to the . news. >> good evening. the top stories this hour angela rayner says she'll step down if it's determined that she committed a criminal offence over her tax affairs . it's over the sale of affairs. it's over the sale of her council house in stockport a decade ago, questions have been asked about whether she paid the right amount of tax and if it was her main home. in a statement, angela rayner said the questions raised relate to a time before she was an mp and that she's taken expert tax and legal advice. sir keir starmer says labour welcomes the investigation. >> we welcome this investigation because it will allow a line to because it will allow a line to be drawn in relation to this

matter. i am fully confident