we can urgently. otherwise we can expect human rights violations for not building enough wind turbines or solar panels. as the vatican declares , transgender vatican declares, transgender surgery should never be attempted as it interferes with the will of god. leaked documents from the cass review have suggested young people who believe they are trans may be suffering from mental health problems, but can we be surprised by that? the foreign secretary, lord cameron, has met the former us president donald trump at his florida resort. the former us president donald trump at his florida resort . as trump at his florida resort. as my fellow gb news presenter nigel farage suggests , he could nigel farage suggests, he could be the link between a starmer trump leadership . but did you trump leadership. but did you see mr trump's latest eclipsing new campaign video, plus this year's town hall rich list has been revealed, with more than 3000 councillors earning more than £100,000 of your money all at a time of council tax hikes and record breaking debt bills . and record breaking debt bills. is it time to abolish some of these councils altogether ? state these councils altogether? state of the nation starts now.

i'll be joined this evening by my most perspicacious panel, broadcast journalist giuditta da silva and associate commentator at the telegraph, mumtaz ahmed, as always, i want to hear from you. it's a crucial part of the programme. email me mailmogg@gbnews.com. but now it's your favourite time of the day. news from polly day. it's the news from polly middlehurst . middlehurst. >> jacob, thank you and good evening to you will. the top story from the gb newsroom tonight is that the mp, william wragg, has resigned from the conservative party after admitting he gave his colleagues phone numbers and details to a suspected scammer. he'll now sit as an independent mp in the house of commons. last night he resigned from two positions on parliamentary committees william wragg has claimed he was manipulated into sharing other politician personal details as

part of a westminster sixteen scam. he has since apologised, saying he was mortified and that prompted the chancellor, jeremy hunt, to call him courageous for coming forward . arsenal football coming forward. arsenal football club are currently hosting bayern munich at the emirates stadium tonight, despite a terror threat from the islamic state group. that game has just kicked off. manchester city are also in action tonight. they're away to real madrid here. the metropolitan police says it has a robust policing plan in place for tonight's game in london, and european football's governing body has insisted that all of this week's champions league quarter finals will go ahead as planned . despite that ahead as planned. despite that terror threat, islamic state claimed responsibility. you may remember for the last attack in moscow a month or so ago, resulting in the deaths of more than 140 people. the foreign secretary said today. it's in the interests of us security that president putin fails in

his illegal invasion of ukraine. lord cameron also reiterated the uk's support for ukraine in their with war with russia, and urged american politicians to release billions of dollars of extra funding to boost the military there, warning that failing to do so would put western security at itself at risk . speaking in washington risk. speaking in washington after a meeting with the us secretary of state, he said continued support for ukraine is vital. >> put simply, we know what works , we know what they need works, we know what they need and we know what is right for us in terms of what works. we know that if we give the ukrainians the support they deserve, they can win war. they can can win this war. they can achieve the just peace that they deserve. they've sunk 25% of russia's black sea fleet. they've inflicted over 350,000 casualties on russian armed forces, who launched this unprovoked and unjustified aggression. and we know that if we keep on backing them, we can

lead this to the right conclusion . conclusion. >> lord cameron, speaking earlier on today. well lastly, labouris earlier on today. well lastly, labour is set to announce a new crackdown on tax avoiders today in a bid to help fund the nhs. they say the shadow chancellor, rachel reeves, will pledge to raise over £5 billion a year, which labour would use to tackle, they say, nhs waiting lists and fund free school breakfast clubs. the party has said it will also raise £2.5 billion over the next parliament by closing loopholes in the government's plans to abolish exemptions for non—doms. that's the news. for the latest stories, do sign up to gb news alerts, scan the qr code on your screen right now or go to gb news. carmelites . news. carmelites. >> article eight of the european convention on human rights states that everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home, and

his correspondence. there's nothing objectionable this . nothing objectionable in this. theidea nothing objectionable in this. the idea that your property and your is sacrosanct is an your life is sacrosanct is an ancient concept. the ancient british concept. the magna makes it clear when magna carta makes it clear when it says, no free man shall be taken or imprisoned or dispossessed or outlawed, exiled or in any way destroyed. nor will we go upon him, nor will we send against him, except by the lawful judgement of his peers, or by the law of the land. pitt the elder said it when he declaimed one of my favourite quotations. the poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the crown. it may be frail, its roof may shake the wind may blow through it. the storm may enter the rain may enter. but the king of england cannot enter. all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement. both in the 13th century and in the 18th century, the british knew and understood they had rights, and the courts have upheld them. when agents of the state have overreached. unfortunately the european court of human rights

is a political construct that believes itself to be above the law. so in this case, a group of elderly swiss women made a claim that their human rights were being violated by the swiss government because older people are supposedly vulnerable are supposedly more vulnerable to consequences of climate to the consequences of climate change, and that the government wasn't living up to its climate policy ambitions. the judgement argues european argues that the european convention on human rights, article eight, quote, encompasses a right to effective protection by the state authorities from the serious adverse effects of climate change on lives, health, well—being and quality of life. the judgement went on to say that the swiss confederation had failed to comply with its duties. positive obligations under the convention concerning climate change. there had been critical gaps in the process of putting in place the relevant domestic regulatory framework, including a failure by the swiss authorities to quantify through authorities to quantify through a carbon budget or otherwise , a carbon budget or otherwise, national greenhouse gas emissions. limitations in other words, not pursuing green

zealotry through fanatical policies such as carbon budgets is tantamount to breaching the human rights of your citizens. echr has officially opened up an entirely novel view of rights. there are reportedly other cases across many of the signatories to the convention, which means the 46 members are vulnerable to these sorts of rulings , too. and these sorts of rulings, too. and this is a fundamental problem with the court . article eight with the court. article eight says nothing about climate change or green policies. but because the court, the court itself has decided to guide itself has decided to guide itself by the living instrument doctrine, it has extended article eight to cover green issues. the idea of a living instrument is that the court can develop the convention by recognising new rights, although they were never envisaged in the original document. this doctrine puts the court above the nation states who agreed to it, or any form of democratic control . it form of democratic control. it becomes effectively a legislative rather than a judicial arm of government. it

is inventing creating law rather than interpreting law . in other than interpreting law. in other words, the court can make up any old rights it feels like, and this is guided by its own political ideology, one of which turns out to be green fanaticism , in this way, the court makes a mockery of rights because it removes that fundamental democratic right of voters to change the law under which they live . that's why it is now time live. that's why it is now time to leave our rights have always come from parliament, not from unelected judges in strasbourg who make up the law as they go along . as lord sumption said, we along. as lord sumption said, we are more than capable of setting up our own updated bill of rights in our own domestic legislation , even if there were legislation, even if there were a democratic mandate for it and that's the point. it's about democracy, our rights must have a democratic mandate. there is no mandate for the right to live in an eco fantastic dystopia , in an eco fantastic dystopia, which is why we should leave the court. as ever. let me know your

thoughts mailmogg@gbnews.com. but i'm joined now. i'm very pleased to be joined now by geoffrey robertson kc , thank you geoffrey robertson kc, thank you very much for joining geoffrey robertson kc, thank you very much forjoining me. the court seems to have taken . good court seems to have taken. good evening. nice to see you. it's quite a leap by the court into further evolution of positive rights rather than negative rights. >> have you read its judgement , >> have you read its judgement, jacob? you've fulminated for five minutes. have you read the judgement? >> i haven't read the full judgement. no. honest no, no, i haven't read the full judgement. >> judgement at all. i've read the reports of the judgement in detail. take two days to read it. so me tell you what it it. so let me tell you what it says. if i may, it says and this was you talk about a political construct. this was a court constructed by winston churchill and his government. his concern , and his government. his concern, and his government. his concern, a government that is i know that i'm well aware of that, as are

all my viewers. well, let's . so all my viewers. well, let's. so it was not a political construct and this is simply a judgement that has taken further the right of individuals to have a government that protects their health. now, we know governments in the past have been held like bull to protect them against murder by police , against murder by police, against torture. and this simply takes the right of private life further by saying it also requires the government to protect individuals against the lack of health that comes from scientifically established threats. and this judge geoffrey, this is this is quite a this is quite a leap to go from saying that we agreed to outlaw torture to saying that we agreed a selection of positive

rights. >> and it's inconceivable that the lord chancellor at the time was instrumental in this would have been , would have been have been, would have been thinking about a living document. it's the living document. it's the living document doctrine that is the court absorbing power to itself, human because because life progresses. >> we have more information. we have a better sense of decency. we don't hang people as we used to know, but we don't hang up. >> but, geoffrey, that's a brilliant point because we don't hang people because parliament changed the law to stop us hanging people. the usual run of british law is that if it's out of date, parliament updates it, whereas these judges have taken it upon themselves selves without any mandate to change the law . the law. >> you're quite wrong to parliament. judges are doing what judges are meant to do. thatis what judges are meant to do. that is holding politicians accountable for their promises to their people . one no they

to their people. one no they don't. >> judges don't hold. hold on, hold on. geoffrey, you know that's not right. judges do not hold politicians accountable for their promises. judge i know i will, but you've just said something very important that judges interpret the law. they don't hold politicians accountable. we're held accountable. we're held accountable by our voters as no judges hold politicians accountable when they lie to their people. >> the swiss government promised to get to net zero by 2050. then it did nothing about it. it didn't produce any kind of policy that was rationally capable of doing that . and all capable of doing that. and all the court said was that it should do that as it promised. it didn't. judges don't legislate. they don't make the law. they decide whether the law has been broken. and in this

case, and in any other case where nations ignore climate change and nations expose their people to ill health, or to the scientist certainty of ill health, then the courts can simply say you're breaching your obugafion simply say you're breaching your obligation to look after your own people. that's all they're not saying how they should do it. they're saying you're just breaching it. and that was their saying. >> they're not saying that the swiss should follow swiss law. they're saying they know better than the swiss government that is accountable to the swiss voters. but thank you very much, geoffrey. oh, thank you. i've got to move on now, because with me now is a great friend of the program director of the climate media coalition, donna mccarthy, donica, as always, thank you for coming i know you will be in coming in, i know you will be in favour of this judgement, but is it right that this is made by

the courts rather than politicians? well, you say that the court today went beyond its remit . remit. >> actually, the european convention on human rights was based on the original based partially on the original bill of rights set up in ancient british history. and secondly, it was actually committed to protecting the lives, the homes and the health of the population. and so therefore, i would argue, as today's judgement goes, to the core of what the convention was about, which is protecting life, protecting health and protecting people's health. and you referred to in your in your monologue to that. cottager having his home invaded by the elements does not the cottager have the right to have its government protect it from the elements, destroying its home and flooding it with rising seas? >>a seas? >> a fundamental difference about negative rights and positive rights. now, i'm quite clear that there are negative rights that the government may notinvade rights that the government may not invade your property , but not invade your property, but there are not this set of positive rights that have been created by the court. those are

matters for parliament not to legislate on as to whether you have a welfare system , whether have a welfare system, whether you aim for net zero. those are completely political issues , not completely political issues, not the responsibility of the court. the court is there to protect negative rights. you won't be tortured that you won't have unreasonable searches, that you won't you won't be held. won't be. you won't be held. >> you won't be hung. >> you won't be hung. >> well, that was a decision made by parliament. >> it's made by the it applies to every single nation in the council. >> we made it before the court opined on that . opined on that. >> it applies to all of the signatories of the convention. >> but made it before that. >> but we'd made it before that. it made by parliament to it was made by parliament to aboush it was made by parliament to abolish the bill of abolish agreed and the bill of rights as as was created before the convention of human rights and convention of human rights. >> with churchill's inspiration, appued >> with churchill's inspiration, applied europe. applied it to all of europe. after the world war. and i think the core point here. yeah, but the core point here. yeah, but the churchill thing, point is the churchill thing, point is the right to life, the right to home right to health and home and to right to health and climate . if the courts can't climate. if the courts can't intervene when the state is failing threat, failing on the biggest threat, i would the science argues

would argue the science argues and this morning's news that we have gone above 1.6. if the if the courts can't intervene on the courts can't intervene on the threat life in the greatest threat to life in human what is the point? >> well, this is completely speculative. it's not speculative. it's not speculative. it's not speculative. it is. it is because we know that cold kills more people each year heat. more people each year than heat. so what court is saying is so what the court is saying is that actually the climate getting hotter will be more dangerous than it not. they don't know that. well, you don't know that. of course, all the evidence so far is that a slightly warmer climate actually keeps people alive. slightly warmer climate actually keeit's people alive. slightly warmer climate actually keeit's not people alive. slightly warmer climate actually keeit's not slightly alive. slightly warmer climate actually keeit's not slightly warmer. >> it's not slightly warmer. it's degrees. that is it's 1.6 degrees. that is implies it's1.6 degrees. that is implies that that all of we know that the implications of that threaten. >> but you're not going to rainforest. >> it threatens the barrier reef. but we know if those if those close that the barrier reef, we've just heard about this is stronger than ever. no it's not, it's just bleach for the sixth time in seven years. and the scientists say once it goes above 1.5 degrees, which it went last year. >> happened year, >> and what happened last year, we're no, we're still alive. >> fine. listen to the farmers

in britain. >> same rainfall as we had in 1872, whenever was 200% 1872, or whenever it was 200% above highest ever. above average, the highest ever. >> are farmers. there >> and there are farmers. there are farmers today. >> we've had high levels of rainfall. >> no, this is the highest on record, highest record if you record, highest on record if you take months, take one take 18 months, if you take one year the same as some day year above the same as some day in 1870s. highest, highest in the 1870s. highest, highest ever human history was the ever in human history was the rainfall in britain this year. and are human history and there are human history because don't know because you simply don't know there farmers, but there there are farmers, but there are farmers hold hold on, farmers who hold on, hold on, because a fundamental because that's a fundamental fallacy. really important fallacy. it's really important you highest in you say the highest ever in human history. you say the highest ever in hurwe history. you say the highest ever in hurwe don'ty. you say the highest ever in hurwe don't know that record , >> we don't know that record, don't have records going back more 150 years in recorded more than 150 years in recorded human is very short. >> it is very short. but in terms of temperature, it goes back in scientific studies to 125,000 years, which was the hottest year in that length of time. so beyond recorded history and we're in scientific, we're not all fine, but we haven't all died. there are record rainfalls. there are record. so what's this court doing? >> it's saying if temperature goes up, we're die and the goes up, we're all die and the

temperature has gone up. >> we're all alive. the world health organisation, the world health organisation, has very clearly that's clearly stated, but that's they're the who that if we they're the ones who that if we go above 1.5 i wouldn't go above 1.5 wuhan, i wouldn't take world health take the world health organisation serious problem organisation to serious problem having any debate with you. jacob no body having any debate with you. ja> i trust the people. i trust the voters, not self appointed, self—perpetuating judges. anyway, thank donald. it is anyway, thank you donald. it is great fun having you on. coming up, some text has been leaked from the upcoming cass review, which speculates on the causes of transgenderism, and not of transgenderism, and it's not necessarily for the necessarily good news for the gender activists. and don't forget, i'll be to talking one of the people behind the latest revelations of council fat cats making six figures from your

taxes

well, we were talking about the brouhaha around the echr and climate change and lots of male mogs have zoomed in. al says what some foreign court wants is a matter for them. not in our interest to bow to it. sonia you are spot on. i like male mogs that begin by saying things like you are spot on. there is climate change. it's been happening for years. the romans were growing grapes in northumbria. leave the northumbria. peter leave the echr now. and david, why don't they consider the hardship and danger caused by costs which have increased for and food have increased for fuel and food caused by drives to net caused by blind drives to net zero? now, after five years of detailed consideration, the vatican has released a 20 page document entitled infinite dignity outlining the church's views on transgender surgery. the declaration is unambiguous use surgery to change one's biological sex is not to be

attempted. any attempt is viewed as a serious risk to the dignity of the person it quotes in benedict. in its text, and says that human dignity is, quote, a fundamental principle which faith in the crucified and risen jesus christ has always defended, especially when in respect of the simplest and most defenceless people, it is disregarded. the opinion has been echoed by other bodies, spiritual or secular. a major review into transgender children by a leading paediatrician is to warn that children who think they are transgender may in fact be facing mental health problems, rather than beginning the of surgical the process of surgical transition. children instead advised to undergo counselling. well, i'm joined now by joanne lockwood, founder of sea change happen, a diversity consultancy. joanne, thank you very much for joining me. isn't this very important with relation to children that the first response should be counselling , rather should be counselling, rather than assuming that they have made this potentially life changing decision ?

changing decision? >> thank you jacob, and i appreciate the vatican jumping in on this discussion as well. so yeah, i wholeheartedly agree that we can we need to do right by our young people, our children, by ensuring the services are there to support them. and that includes a multifaceted approach, including counselling, including support for parents, including support for parents, including support for teachers and people who look after young people. and that's where i think they've been let down over the last 5 to 10 years, where our resources have not been provided to adequately support young people through counselling , through their counselling, through their gender identity, through the conflicts they face on a daily basis. so i think, yes, counselling is critically important in looking after our young people . but that's not to young people. but that's not to say that affirming their gender identity, affirming their their concerns shouldn't also be considered. but in partnership with counselling and support. >> but isn't that quite risky

with people at such an early stage in their lives who may find that this isn't actually what they really want to do? and there's the risk of taking steps that are quite hard to reverse. yes, if you act too quickly , yes, if you act too quickly, it's certainly risky. >> if the medical professionals , >> if the medical professionals, the counsellors are not available to support those people through that journey. and many people successfully and have successfully gender transitioned at a young age, but for decades and decades, this is not a new thing. what is a new thing is that the medical professionals, the healthcare professionals, the healthcare professionals are not funded well enough to be able to keep up the demand. that seems to scare people. >> but is it all about funding? because the numbers do seem to have risen recently, and it's hard to understand why that should have happened. except for there's been an element of propagandising about it to try and encourage people to decide their own gender, which may not be the best thing for children

to do, i don't think there's a societal pressure to persuade people to change their gender, it's become socially less stigmatised and i say less not not removing the stigma in the same way we talked about in the 70s and 80s about people being 93v- 70s and 80s about people being gay. people were worried about people catching gayness or inheriting it, or discovering because they could be gay. they could be gay. and i think we've been through that lesson of section history of section 28 and the history of that. and there's still this perception that being transgender, being trans, being non—binary in some way, you're broken and need to be prevented by from breaking yourself, affirming people's gender identity can be immensely validating and immensely relieving. some mental health pressures that they've spent all of their lives so yeah, there's plenty of track record here where many young people have successfully transitioned in the past and continue to do so with the right support. well thank

you. >> thank you very much, joanne. thank you for joining >> thank you very much, joanne. thank you forjoining us. this thank you for joining us. this evening. with me now is my panel evening. with me now is my panel, broadcast journalist judnh panel, broadcast journalist judith da silva, an associate commentator with the telegraph mutaz ahmed, judy, this is obviously a very sensitive issue, but the issue, joanne raises is about affirming, and i wonder whether that is the right thing to do with children or whether actually they need to have clear counselling first to see what the real position is, i think that the when you're deaung think that the when you're dealing with a group that's marginalised and has a sentiment that being living, their true being, their true self is something that they've had to fight to get. there's a there's a hyper sensitivity when it comes to any discussion around the topic. but i do see that if you're more pragmatic in your understanding of what this is endeavouring to do, it's saying that if you have a child that says, i do not believe that i'm in the body, i should be in, the first question could be why? what made you feel this was the

remedy to whatever mental state you existing in? and when you are existing in? and when you are existing in? and when you have the when you pursue the question why, you begin to understand the stimuli they've been to that led them on been exposed to that led them on a path to feeling this was the only remedy or the best remedy they believe they have. it's they believe they have. so it's not it's anything not saying it's anything anti—trans, it's saying the anti—trans, it's saying that the road a decision that road to making a decision that fundamentally challenges the biological blocks of biological building blocks of human existence is of such gravity . it cannot be put in the gravity. it cannot be put in the hands of a child. >> and that's a very fair point, isn't it, batus that you want to, question what is happening, whether there's outside societal pressure . i thought joanne's pressure. i thought joanne's point, comparing it with homosexuality in the 1970s is an important one, that people have been very nervous about discussing this because of the history around discussions of sexuality previously. >> i think there's more, you know, we should be frank here. if i had said two years ago that these children identifying as trans had mental health issues , trans had mental health issues, i would have been thrown out. i

would have been called disabled list and transphobic. and it turns out now, if the reports are correct, there are quite a lot of them have serious mental health issues. quite a lot of them are neurodiverse, quite a lot of them i think are the research has shown, have autism and so on. and this is it looks as if it is an outlet. right. and some people have argued there is an element of social contagion. right. and there is an element of trendiness and so on.and an element of trendiness and so on. and the problem i have with the affirmative approach is we're talking about children here. an affirmation is promotion. often for children. >> and that's really important that i think mccarthy's point that i think mccarthy's point that two years ago, the floodgate would have opened and that jk rowling has played a very important role in allowing people to discuss this in a more rational way and say, do children need counselling? are there underlying causes that are

not just about gender but relate to neurodiverse city autism and so on? >> i think when it comes to word of affirmation, it comes to how it's applied . because when it's applied. because when a child presents with a problem this profound and that dogmatic parental approach might be counter productive, it's a question of recognising that there is an issue that they are battling with, that they feel this is the remedy. so you have to approach, have a discursive approach with the child where they as joanne said, i'm they feel, as joanne said, i'm in environment where i don't in an environment where i don't feel will be judged or made to feel i will be judged or made to feel i will be judged or made to feel that they're made, to feel that is something wrong that there is something wrong with me. i present with an issue that a myriad that could have a myriad of remedies and i'm by remedies to it, and i'm by having conversation that makes having a conversation that makes me comfortable enough to be me feel comfortable enough to be open, i get to a final open, i may get to a final conclusion where feel this is conclusion where i feel this is not way i have to go, but not the way i have to go, but when immediately approach it when you immediately approach it where have to be where they feel i have to be combative hold position, where they feel i have to be comiistive hold position, where they feel i have to be comiis where hold position, where they feel i have to be comiis where that position, where they feel i have to be comiis where that wordyosition, where they feel i have to be comiis where that word ofition, that is where that word of affirmation comes means affirmation comes in. means recognise who has recognise the person who has this and treat them in this issue and treat them in such way they feel such a way that they feel they're being included in the

process, finding solution. process, to finding a solution. >> such an extreme change bound to unhappiness, though >> such an extreme change bound to extentappiness, though >> such an extreme change bound to extentap does s, though >> such an extreme change bound to extentap does indicate| to some extent it does indicate a happiness because a level of happiness because you're saying who you are is not who you feel you should be. >> definitely . but then at the >> definitely. but then at the same time, it's also , i say same time, it's also, i say like, for instance, like the when she brought up the issue about being gay, if you are, you are. it's a question you're now dancing and dancing between nature and nurture. are certain nurture. there are certain things. certain people things. there are certain people that not that just are not that are not that just are not conventional. and you have to recognise that. okay. >> you very much. my >> well, thank you very much. my panel the noble panel coming up next, the noble lord cameron met former us president donald trump today. but his gloriously but did you see his gloriously self—parodying video? self—parodying campaign video? plus, can you guess how many local councillors are earning? they're not local councillors. local council employees are earning six figures they earning six figures as they increase council taxes.

well, we've been discussing the

vatican and trans issues, and you've been sending in your male mugs . but actually, on the mugs. but actually, on the previous section, because jeanette says, does sunak have the backbone to leave the echr? please don't let us have a labour government here. here. jeanette. and elizabeth says, dear sir jacob, the science underpinning and climate underpinning carbon and climate change rigged as it's based change is rigged as it's based on modelling. well, we all know that modelling economics circumstances so circumstances is hopeless. so before we get into the diplomatic details of lord cameron's visit to donald trump's florida resort earlier today, there was a certain campaign video i wanted to show you.the campaign video i wanted to show you. the former president is known for his online presence, which perhaps reached its peak back in 2017 when he tweeted the words despite the negative press coffee, it sparked a national debate as to the meaning of the word, a word you don't find in doctor johnson's word, a word you don't find in doctorjohnson's dictionary, as doctor johnson's dictionary, as far as i'm aware, and whether he meant to type it intentionally or in light of last or not. but in light of last night's sale eclipse, donald trump's may trump's social media team may have surpassed the previous high

of . coffee. oh my god, there it of. coffee. oh my god, there it is . is. >> oh my god i >> -- >> well, i think m >> well, i think it's absolutely brilliant. i'd love to see david cameron replace donald trump's face in that final picture as the silhouette against the sun. but on a slightly more serious matters , away from coffee and matters, away from coffee and solar eclipses, lord cameron met the former us president earlier

today. it's the first time a senior government minister has met trump since he left office back in 2021, and it comes at a crucial time, months away from the us presidential election. while support for the war in ukraine begins to lag among us republicans and the ukrainian counteroffensive against the russians isn't going as we might like it. there are fears on both sides of the atlantic that a second trump presidency would leave ukraine isolated and nato unsupported, increase europe's vulnerability. while my panel is still with me , giuditta da silva still with me, giuditta da silva and mutaz ahmed mutaz . this is and mutaz ahmed mutaz. this is very important, isn't it? because david cameron said some pretty fruity things about donald trump in the past? >> yes , he called him a fool and >> yes, he called him a fool and stupid and so on. and donald trump remembers these things. he doesn't forget , it might be doesn't forget, it might be argued that the trip was counterproductive , because it counterproductive, because it would have angered and reminded the mega lot that this man was against trump. he's now for ukraine. and the way they triangulate things that means

ukraine is also bad, and they should go on blocking this funding, but the realistic the, you know, in the real world, trump i think a lot of people are realising is likely to win, and ukraine may soon run out of artillery and then of funds and trump would be more likely to negotiate. with russia claiming territory in europe. and that undermines all our sovereignty. so i think it's getting pretty desperate now , but it's come a desperate now, but it's come a bit late. it's the reality of politics, isn't it, that one minute you're rude about somebody and the next minute you're in coalition with them as david cameron found with nick clegg years clegg all those years ago. >> and that grown up politicians deal with that usually. donald trump has historically been deal with that usually. donald trum|sensitive orically been deal with that usually. donald trum|sensitive ,rically been deal with that usually. donald trum|sensitive , sonlly been deal with that usually. donald trum|sensitive , so this)een deal with that usually. donald trum|sensitive , so this must quite sensitive, so this must have made it quite awkward. first meeting. >> i awkward on the surface, but i think what you're looking at now is a very different trump. it's a more seasoned trump. and

also he'll realise that based on the tests he's withstood the past few years, he's got a different a more holistic perspective of what what the challenges are and would be when it comes to cameron. he is one of the most seasoned diplomats that uk has . of the most seasoned diplomats that uk has. no matter what has gone on before, he can always see the bigger picture, whether you like him or not. even the rhetoric around him being the architect of brexit, people recognise the value holds as recognise the value he holds as a politician him a politician and him going forward, what gone forward, despite what has gone before, is a show of pragmatism. whether is in or not whether trump is in or not a relation, a diplomatic relationship must be sustained with whoever goes into power, and learning. the lessons from 2016, where everyone put their bets on clinton and then you had no relationships with the trump administration. make administration. you cannot make the twice, he the same mistake twice, he season, but he's jarring. >> there something wrong with >> there is something wrong with david tone, which is david cameron's tone, which is that us provide these that the us must provide these funds. the us has to back ukraine. the us is a big country with its own interests, and to be honest, they don't really

care who lord cameron is or what he does . and the mainstream he does. and the mainstream republicans in america back this bill they wanted to go through. the problem is the maga republicans who already dislike david cameron . i don't david cameron. i don't understand the logic in sending the man they really dislike to convince them. >> it's the optics of eating humble pie, because he's showing that i am willing to do what needs to be done for something i am, i'm saying, is a greater good. he's showing optically the importance of ukraine, that it's greater than the humiliation of having to go cap in hand to a man that you were so derogatory about. >> and that's a good point, because he's gone to pay homage to the trump resort in florida. he's not having a meeting with trump in washington when he's having other meetings. this is very much a supplement going to see somebody he wants something from. >> something very similar was attempted , with when boris attempted, with when boris johnson was foreign secretary with the iran nuclear deal. he flew over there, he met trump with other foreign secretaries.

they literally begged him to stay in. and it didn't work. >> but trump was right on that. it was a terrible deal. and it was a very good thing that trump pulled out of it. >> i agree with you. the iran deal was terrible, and he was right on that. thinks he's right on that. he thinks he's right on that. he thinks he's right this, which is that right on this, which is that ukraine isn't you know, russia isn't immediate threat to isn't an immediate threat to american whereas american sovereignty, whereas china does he really china is. and does he really think he just want think that or does he just want to try and use leverage to get, nato to up its spending, which he's been successful in so far? >> i mean, one of the things that happened since he first attacked nato is that nato states have increased their expenditure. >> indeed, because one thing you you whether like him you must, whether you like him or give trump for is or not, give trump credit for is that does know how to shake that he does know how to shake the system seismically enough that people to one. the system seismically enough that attention people to one. the system seismically enough thatattention and le to one. the system seismically enough thatattention and two, one. the system seismically enough that attention and two, take pay attention and two, take action. and sometimes, like they say, a clock is right say, a broken clock is right twice a day. sometimes he's very rebellious. actions can move in a positive direction when it comes to the action of a collective . that what has collective. that is what has happened it comes to nato happened when it comes to nato spending defence. again,

spending on defence. and again, when what, david when it comes to what, david cameron has done, i really do applaud it because he understands again , the language applaud it because he unpolitics. s again , the language applaud it because he unpolitics. you're] , the language applaud it because he unpolitics. you're dealinginguage applaud it because he unpolitics. you're dealing with|ge of politics. you're dealing with a an ego, with an axe a man with an ego, with an axe to grind, doing, going to mar—a—lago, meeting him on his turf. you're showing that i'm willing to myself on your willing to humble myself on your on your say so in order to get to a point where there is a dialogue between us. >> okay. am i reading too much into little election clip, into that little election clip, which i thought showed a very different donald trump, a donald trump who's willing to laugh at himself, which never thought himself, which i never thought i would ever see. and i thought that showed a donald trump who's actually much more businesslike. >> he's a bit more like >> he's he's a bit more like that on campaign trail, so that on the campaign trail, so i had to watch quite a few of his speeches, and he does make jokes about himself much more often now. he more relaxed. i think now. he is more relaxed. i think there's a sense of he's still up against the wall, that he stopped caring , basically. stopped caring, basically. >> but i see i see ego. that's trump saying that i have the power and appeal eclipse the power and appeal to eclipse the sun. is, that is ego sun. that is, that is ego through and laughing at himself.

24 trump. anyway, thank 24 karat trump. anyway, thank you my panel coming up next. you to my panel coming up next. >> finally, be showing you >> finally, we'll be showing you how wasted how your money is being wasted on employee on fat cat council employee salaries . plus, how do you feel salaries. plus, how do you feel about abolition of vowels, about the abolition of vowels, particularly you in particularly if you live in aberdeen

? well. 7 well. welcome ? well. welcome back. in an age characterised by chronic mismanagement at local government level, one might expect a little contrition from local authorities. perhaps in the form of reduced salaries to council chief executives, or more transparency in the way money is spent. more transparency in the way money is spent . yet, money is spent. yet, extraordinary though it may seem, councils still persist in paying seem, councils still persist in paying bloated salaries to unelected officials over 3000 council workers earned six figures of vastly wasteful exercise, but hampshire council stands on the podium, even though it's warned that it faces

bankruptcy . it has though it's warned that it faces bankruptcy. it has a though it's warned that it faces bankruptcy . it has a director of bankruptcy. it has a director of culture, community and business services who was paid a total of £651,158 in one year, nearly five times more than the prime minister so how do they find the cash to sustain these handouts ? cash to sustain these handouts? well, from you, of course, council tax continues to rise as local leaders seek to raise money from the people with all the zeal of king john the first time, some households are having to pay over £5,000 a year, which would have been a fifth of the total exchequer revenue under the not lamented king john as councils reached breaking point. perhaps need a modern perhaps we need a modern day magna to in check magna carta to keep in check such arbitrary practices. well, i'm joined now by elliot keck, the head of campaigns at the taxpayers alliance, the think tank behind these revelations. thank you for coming in. every year. thank you for coming in. every year . this thank you for coming in. every year. this gives you a fantastic report to point out the extravagance of councils which are going bankrupt. how do they justify it? >> well, you picked up on a few

things, which is really interesting. firstly, we haven't had the magna carta mentioned today in the context of the town hall. richard tice there's a couple things you couple of other things you mentioned. firstly the increase in of people on in the number of people on on high high high salaries and high remuneration packages, despite the seen the fact that we've seen inflation busting, tax inflation busting, council tax hikes and also the importance of transparency. actually transparency. and actually this year we've actually year we've we've actually reached milestone reached a sad milestone for where the first time, over 50 councils failed to publish councils have failed to publish their accounts, councils in their accounts, 59 councils in total. that's really, really total. and that's really, really troubling means, you know, troubling that means, you know, almost about of councils almost about a sixth of councils have failed to publish the key document that shows taxpayers and how they're and residents how they're spending their money and what they're spending it. >> so does that there may >> so does that mean there may be more than the 3000? because with find with these documents, you'd find other paid? other people similarly paid? >> given there's >> absolutely. so given there's an nine per an average of nine people per council actually council that we've actually looked we've been able looked at that we've been able to if you extrapolate to look at, if you extrapolate that across of the that across the rest of the councils, you're probably talking about somewhere in the region which make region of 3600, which would make it comfortably as it it comfortably the record. as it is, the highest is, it's only the highest since 2015. 2015, we didn't 2015. but in 2015, we didn't have problem. most councils have this problem. most councils published accounts on published their accounts on

time, want affected time, but if you want affected people, don't you have to pay the gang rate . the gang rate. >> and if councils are competing with the private sector, somebody earn £150,000 in somebody could earn £150,000 in the private sector, would want to 150,000 working for council. >> i think it's a very fair point. and listen, where councils bosses that are councils have, bosses that are providing services at good value for money without increasing council tax or without increasing council tax any more than necessary . increasing council tax any more than necessary. i think than is necessary. i think they have good for that pay have a good case for that pay packet. i think we need to remember that when we're talking about the public about working in the public sector, than just sector, it's much more than just the already higher the pay, which is already higher than sector, in than in the private sector, in the public sector, you have access a pension scheme access to a pension scheme normally benefit pension normally defined benefit pension scheme to scheme that is unavailable to almost everybody in in the private sector. >> that seems to where >> and that seems to be where the really figures come the really high figures come from. the figure i quoted was from. the figure i quoted was from somebody who left the service council, service of hampshire council, got salary or a year's got a year's salary or a year's pay off, and then £400,000 in pension. >> yes. which is absolutely extraordinary. and that's why we campaigned for a cap on these exit payments. and it's a reason

why the public sector pension bill is now at about £26 trillion. these are pensions . trillion. these are pensions. you know, people are not paying into them. they're not going into them. they're not going into a defined pot, which then grows and then pays out over time. essentially, what happens is you join the council, you get put this defined benefit put on this defined benefit scheme you retire, you get scheme when you retire, you get given this guaranteed pension of often 75% of your often around 70, 75% of your final earnings. absolutely final earnings. it's absolutely extraordinary i think extraordinary. and i think that's area government that's one area where government can take some action. can actually take some action. >> and if we were to do something about these very high payouts, it's actually the pension to pension level we need to be looking because for looking because frankly, for senior senior jobs. as senior people in seniorjobs. as jeremy said recently , jeremy hunt said recently, £100,000 is effectively the going rate. yes, but in the private sector, nobody is getting £400,000 put into their pension. yeah, absolutely. >> and i don't think we should belittle councils or pretend that they're not important. all of your viewers will know exactly how important their local council provide local council is. they provide social care, provide social care, they provide education, potholes , education, roads, potholes, really important. they provide potholes. >> well, you might say that, but i potholes.

i think potholes. >> yes, yes, provide them. >> yes, yes, we provide them. yeah. and so they do they, they carry enormous responsibilities. they with very large they often deal with very large budgets. very budgets. these are often very important they have important roles. but they have access to a level of additional benefits that are unheard of in the private sector. >> some them very good. >> some of them are very good. when was selected as the when i was selected as the candidate for north east somerset, there was a man in baynes who was paid £300,000, but saved taxpayers but he'd saved taxpayers 18 million. one year. you but he'd saved taxpayers 18 millicthat's)ne year. you but he'd saved taxpayers 18 millicthat's worth ar. you but he'd saved taxpayers 18 millicthat's worth it you but he'd saved taxpayers 18 millicthat's worth it when you think that's worth it when you can see that they're actually making contribution , but that making contribution, but that it's this vast swathe of pensions that are long time liability for the country that we just can't afford and needs to be reformed. >> and an unfunded liability critically. and again, to go back to the previous point , you back to the previous point, you know, we want good people in councils. we want good people delivering good services. but most people in the country feel their council been their council hasn't been performing to standards performing up to standards recently, though councils recently, though some councils are the of the >> it's one of the bits of the pubuc >> it's one of the bits of the public there are public sector where there are payments into funds. >> it's better than areas >> yes. it's better than areas such as the and the civil such as the nhs and the civil service, but it's still a level

of generosity that is not found almost anywhere the private almost anywhere in the private sector . sector. >> and we must have a discussion at some on the discount at some point on the discount rates to pensions, rates used to fund pensions, which certainly which is almost certainly wrong. yeah. and that we're either heavily overfunded or heavily underfunded, where they're, where they're funded, but that the pay as you go ones are the biggest burden to the taxpayer. >> and that's >> yeah, absolutely. and that's how absolutely >> yeah, absolutely. and that's how figures absolutely >> yeah, absolutely. and that's how figures of absolutely >> yeah, absolutely. and that's how figures of the .olutely >> yeah, absolutely. and that's how figures of the 3106..y enormous figures of the 3106. when you're looking at actually you're it down by the you're breaking it down by the remuneration package. the salary is a reasonable is a reasonable chunk. but for the most egregious cases, the 650,000, you're looking primarily at pensions the drivers. pensions are the big drivers. >> well, very much, >> well, thank you very much, elliot. now for britain. yes. you correctly , aberdeen, you heard correctly, aberdeen, the rebranded name given to financial institutions standard life aberdeen three years ago, has provoked continued ridicule as people struggle to pronounce this alternative name for the famous scottish city. the removal of the words, vowels , removal of the words, vowels, undoubtedly a rather rum decision has now been defended by the firm, which has accused

the amused of corporate bullying that includes el—sisi pays. the supposed victims have taken great umbrage at the understandable laughter generated by the chain, and have reiterated their confidence in aberdeen , though perhaps they aberdeen, though perhaps they may be right. perhaps this criticism is overdone. who are we to pose as puritans and judge and scorn the ever changing developments in the english language ? a briton may merely be language? a briton may merely be ahead of its time and its enlightened decision to make the vowels go extinct may simply be a cause of natural selection. in the great literary leap in darwinian devolution, very much a case of what the victorian naturalist might have called survival of the consonants . i survival of the consonants. i think peter brunner, the chief investment officer, or as he probably prefers pietrabruna, deserves to be the wt. dup of the uk, well, that's all from me. up next, it's patrick christys patrick, have you got, a lot of vowels coming up in your program? >> i think. no more than usual, jacob, but i have thoroughly

enjoyed your show. and look, your fellow mps are plotting to replace rishi sunak. i reveal which man they want. are rwanda now laughing at us, video footage reveals violent thugs coming across the channel. we go live to calais and nigel farage joins us live at 930 to reveal what trump really thinks of david cameron. >> well, patrick, i hope you'll tell those who are plotting just to grow up and stop plotting that changed prime that we've changed prime minister many times, minister already too many times, well, not my job to tell well, it's not my job to tell them. to tell them that, jacob, maybe you should. maybe you should on message. should pass on the message. >> that's coming up after >> that's all coming up after the i'll be back the weather. i'll be back tomorrow to clock. i'm jacob rees—mogg. this been state rees—mogg. this has been state of know what of the nation. and you know what the to be like the weather's going to be like in it's going to be in somerset. it's going to be simply fine. fabulous. all day. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello. good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update. well, it's going to be a

dry and clear night for most of us across the uk. there's a chance of frost tomorrow , but it chance of frost tomorrow, but it will also be a fairly bright start. that's this ridge of start. that's as this ridge of high pressure is moving in for this evening. it's a brief, settled interlude between weather so there will settled interlude between we more so there will settled interlude between we more rain so there will settled interlude between we more rain to so there will settled interlude between we more rain to come here will settled interlude between we more rain to come one will be more rain to come on wednesday, but for time wednesday, but for the time being, it's to be a dry being, it's going to be a dry night and a clear night. so plenty of starry skies and that's going to allow temperatures away temperatures to fall away much more have done more quickly than they have done of so it's going be of late. so it's going to be a colder start tomorrow with a risk of frost across eastern areas of scotland, northeast england but everywhere england as well. but everywhere is going to be on the chillier side to start the day away from the far west, where we'll see the far west, where we'll see the rain move in quite quickly tomorrow morning. northern tomorrow morning. so northern ireland, heaviest ireland, seeing the heaviest rain but also rain first thing, but also cloudy some fairly cloudy skies and some fairly persistent across parts of persistent rain across parts of wales, southwest. it's wales, the southwest. but it's into scotland, west and scotland into scotland, west and scotland in where the rain in particular, where the rain will quite persistent will turn quite persistent through as well parts through the day as well as parts of district. we could of the lake district. we could see 60mm rain falling through see 60mm of rain falling through the but going to be a the day, but it is going to be a warmer day so that cloud and rain is bringing with it milder

air. that stays with us for thursday as well. and on thursday as well. and on thursday is the chance of thursday there is the chance of seeing brighter spells, seeing some brighter spells, particularly and particularly across northern and eastern country. eastern areas of the country. across south, we're more across the south, we're more likely to see some drizzly rain come through the day. come and go through the day. friday once again looks like it should stay across southern should stay dry across southern areas, more rain moving should stay dry across southern areathe more rain moving should stay dry across southern areathe northyre rain moving should stay dry across southern areathe north and|in moving should stay dry across southern areathe north and temperatures into the north and temperatures rising to the teens rising to the high. teens >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> as 9 pm. i'm patrick christys tonight . terror at the christys tonight. terror at the football. isis threatened to strike. plus, what you're seeing

on your screens now. violence on the beaches are thugs coming across the channel and. yeah. should we have a referendum on trans also , rwanda's sold off trans also, rwanda's sold off housing for illegal migrants. are they just taking us for a ride? also tonight i'm going to be talking to nigel farage. what does trump really think of david cameron? i've got all of tomorrow's newspapers today with my panel. it's tory mp andrew rosindell. gb news, contributor and broadcaster albie amankona and broadcaster albie amankona and author amy nicole turner. oh yes. and i wonder if you can tell what might be wrong with this woman so interviewed for a job earlier this week. >> the interview went so well. every question she had, i had a great answer for it. i used to work in recruitment. i know how to interview. >> get ready britain, here we go. the rwandans are laughing at us. next