are unable to cope with it. and this beauty , the poppy. d0 are unable to cope with it. and this beauty , the poppy. do you this beauty, the poppy. do you think this symbol is being undermined? mps today have had to urge brits to wear them with pride and in solidarity with royal british legion volunteers as amid intimidation, threats of violence and verbal abuse . what violence and verbal abuse. what is going on and should there be

a vote in uk parliament whether or not to demand a ceasefire in the israel—hamas conflict? and another day and another bashing for suella braverman? when is there not quite frankly. anyway, she's written an article saying that basically the police favour left wing protesters over the right wing ones and a harsher on the latter. is she right? and of course, you guessed it, many are saying that sunak needs to give her the boot. does he . yes. i'm her the boot. does he. yes. i'm looking forward to robust debate on all those topics . aaron on all those topics. aaron bastani and lord daniel moylan alongside me and of course , you alongside me and of course, you at home. but before we get stuck in, let's cross live for tonight's latest headlines . at 6:00. >> i'm sophia wenzler in the newsroom . labour says suella newsroom. labour says suella braverman broke the ministerial code with an article she wrote

for the times today. in it, the home secretary accuses the metropolitan police of playing favourites with pro—palestinian protesters. labour's national campaign co—ordinator pat mcfadden says that she breached the ministerial code by failing to clear the article with number 10. meanwhile veterans minister johnny mercer says people shouldn't feel discouraged from joining in the weekend's remembrance events in london. >> they're not going to be anywhere near the cenotaph and the metropolitan police are bending over backwards to make sure that everybody who comes up into london, whether you're selling poppies, whether you're attending a reunion or you're going remembrance, going to remembrance, is completely and completely unmolested and allowed on what is allowed to get on with what is a really special, important weekend. this weekend, we spent all making sure can all week making sure that can happen. really encourage happen. and i really encourage people into london and people to come into london and remember in the way we always do this weekend . this weekend. >> israel has agreed to a series of pauses in fighting in northern gaza . the white house northern gaza. the white house says there will be daily four

hour pauses starting from today. it comes after discussions between us and israeli officials in recent days, including talks us president joe biden had with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. the us says it will allow people to get out of harm's way and for deliveries of humanitarian aid at arrests have been made after the cenotaph in rochdale was sprayed with free palestine graffiti across its base. palestine graffiti across its base . greater manchester police base. greater manchester police said poppies were removed from the war memorial on tuesday afternoon and it's currently a crime scene. two male teenagers are being questioned and by police . years of puscar has been police. years of puscar has been found guilty of murdering a school teacher in county offaly. 23 year old aisling murphy was killed while exercising on a canal path in tullamore in january last year. judge mr justice tony hunt told the jury, we have evil in this room . the we have evil in this room. the supreme court is set to give its decision on whether a government plan to deport asylum seekers to rwanda is lawful. the court of

appeal ruled in june that the plan to deport those seeking asylum to the east african nafion asylum to the east african nation was unlawful. the home office challenged that ruling last month. the decision on the challenge is expected to be made on wednesday . former home on wednesday. former home secretary dame priti patel says early in the pandemic there was no ability to prevent coronavirus arriving in the uk through the borders . the former through the borders. the former home secretary made the comments while being questioned at the covid inquiry, where she faced questions about lockdown rules . questions about lockdown rules. dame pretty also made clear to the inquiry that the department for health and social care was responsible for covid laws . she responsible for covid laws. she had lobbied for stricter border controls in the early stages of the pandemic in an attempt to prevent virus reaching the prevent the virus reaching the uk was overruled and the nhs uk but was overruled and the nhs waiting list in england has hit a record high with more people facing delays of more than a year and a half. nhs england found the wait list increased to just over 7.5 million at the end of september. just over 7.5 million at the end of september . officials say it's

of september. officials say it's made up of 6.5 million patients, with some waiting more than for one treatment. the overall list is now nearly 3.5 million higher than it was before the covid pandemic . and the queen has pandemic. and the queen has commemorated the nation's war dead at a ceremony at westminster abbey's field of remembrance. camilla paid tribute and recognised the sacrifices of those who fought and died for their country. in her first visit to the abbey since the coronation, after placing the cross down, camilla and hundreds of veterans fell silent the chimes of big ben silent as the chimes of big ben ran out . this is gb news across ran out. this is gb news across the uk on tv , in your car, on the uk on tv, in your car, on your digital radio, and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now it's back to . michelle news now it's back to. michelle >> thank you for that. indeed. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me the conservative life peer in the conservative life peer in the house of lords, daniel moylan and the co—founder of novara aaron bast .

moylan and the co—founder of novara aaron bast. dani. novara media, aaron bast. dani. good evening. evening, gentlemen . you know the drill, don't you? on this program? it not just on this program? it is not just about it's much about us three. it's very much about us three. it's very much about at home. what is about you guys at home. what is on your mind tonight? there's a lot want to to you about. lot i want to talk to you about. i want to talk to you about these puppies. do you think the symbol is still appreciated symbol is still as appreciated and respected as it once was, and as respected as it once was, as perhaps would argue it as perhaps many would argue it still should what's going still should be? what's going on? need mps to urge on? why do we need mps to urge people with pride people to wear them with pride and not to be afraid? also, suella braverman trouble suella braverman in trouble again. fired? again. should she be fired? that's what some people are calling. they not calling. what are they not calling. what are they not calling quite frankly, calling for that, quite frankly, it like every single day it seems like every single day when trap , people when she opens a trap, people want be fired. do you want her to be fired. do you agree with all that sentiment or not? to kick off with not? but i want to kick off with something a little something perhaps a little different, because we know different, because we all know that is upon us. that winter is almost upon us. i cannot help but notice whenever this happens, we get all of these notifications, don't we, on the papers in the news. this crisis, that crisis , this crisis, that crisis, this hospital struggling, that hospital struggling, that hospital is struggling. and now overin hospital is struggling. and now over in wales, one of the

biggest, biggest hospitals there has announced it's going on to what people call a black alert. it's experiencing a significant and sustained adverse demand on services. of course , this is services. of course, this is because it's getting cold. even the army apparently is going to have to be on standby. winter happens every year. it always seems to take people by surprise in health care . why? in health care. why? >> i don't think it does take people by surprise in health care. and i think the nhs is actually rather good at managing winter, but it does stretch them to limits and some of them to the limits and some of them start moaning and whingeing about it . i start moaning and whingeing about it. i don't start moaning and whingeing about it . i don't know why the about it. i don't know why the nhs in wales is run independent. it's nothing to do with the nhs in england. it's run by the welsh government and it is it is in a poor state. it has been for years and it's very difficult to make comparisons because the welsh government doesn't publish figures that make it easy to make comparisons with nhs in england. but it does struggle and it doesn't surprise me that that's where the pressures are

beginning to show first. but on the whole, the nhs does get through winter it manages it through winter and it manages it , plans for it, it prepares for it , it knows it's coming , plans for it, it prepares for it, it knows it's coming and it's reasonably good at it. >> but then why is why have we got these black alerts? why are people talking army people talking about army potentially standby? potentially being on standby? why being advised why are you only being advised to go, for example, the to go, for example, to the emergency departments if you pretty dying? it's a way of pretty much dying? it's a way of rationing isn't it? pretty much dying? it's a way of rati it's|g isn't it? pretty much dying? it's a way of rati it's frightening isn't it? pretty much dying? it's a way of rati it's frightening people off >> it's frightening people off to extent, yeah. to some extent, yeah. >> you see pay for >> but you see people pay for their pair taxes to able to their pair taxes to be able to go hospital in their hour of go to hospital in their hour of need. and we found this in kobe, didn't we? so many people were absolutely and absolutely terrified. and so with life being with an inch of their life being made terrified. so they made to be terrified. so they didn't go to hospital, then what happenedis didn't go to hospital, then what happened is all their ailments that and that were undiagnosed and untreated lot untreated went on to kill a lot of people. yeah >> the same you've got to >> the same time you've got to accept there are quite lot of accept there are quite a lot of people go to a&e who don't people who go to a&e who don't go in their hour of need. this is also very true. and could be deau is also very true. and could be dealt through gps dealt with through gps pharmacies other things like dealt with through gps pharrso ies other things like dealt with through gps pharrso ies isother things like dealt with through gps pharrso ies is the r things like that. so i this is the difficulty a state run difficulty with a state run monopoly based system monopoly ration based system that some people picked up

that some people are picked up and through it and some who and get through it and some who and get through it and some who and some people who need it find it doesn't work for them . it doesn't work for them. >> any labour supporters out there? one of the things that i found fascinating, so many people campaign, you need laboun people campaign, you need labour. if labour gets its hands on country, it'll sort on this country, it'll sort everything always everything out. well, i always ask then how come when we ask them then how come when we look as daniel look at wales, which as daniel points has run by for points out, has been run by for labour a significant amount of time why is it in such time now, why is it in such a mess? because if labour are the kind of fix, all the people that we are desperately depending on, surely is their showcase surely that is their showcase then? well i think, i think i think england and wales are quite different places. >> you know, the south—east of england is one of the richest regions in the whole europe, regions in the whole of europe, one regions in one of the richest regions in the south wales is rather the world. south wales is rather different. obviously you're right that should right to say that labour should be accountable for their be held accountable for their record there. i think wales is in a state and i think in a bit of a state and i think frankly england's a bit of a state too. going back to what daniel i mean, daniel was saying, i mean, i feel sorry for the army, you know, you've got the home secretary who says you to

secretary who says you have to get involved protest. you've get involved in protest. you've got saying you're got some people saying you're going have to man the going to have to man the hospitals the fire hospitals if the if fire personnel strike, you've personnel go on strike, you've got out fires and got to put out the fires and save the cats stuck up save the black cats stuck up trees. i think it really trees. and i think it really underscores the extent of the problem across public problem we have across public services in this country. importantly doesn't mean services in this country. imp(clinical doesn't mean services in this country. imp(clinical or doesn't mean services in this country. imp(clinical or elective: mean that clinical or elective appointments affected, so appointments are affected, so it's not as bad it sounds. it's not as bad as it sounds. and think what daniel is and i think what daniel is saying about really being saying about this really being messaging, the bat messaging, sending out the bat signal, come to a&e signal, please don't come to a&e with cold winter is what with a cold this winter is what this really about. but this is really about. but finally, would say is finally, what i would say is that 2.3 beds that britain then has 2.3 beds per people. germany. per 1000 people. in germany. it's over seven beds per people. now that might sound very bad. it's good. it's it's both bad and good. it's partly about efficiency, partly a point about efficiency, which don't want too much which is you don't want too much excess capacity. that's our model. the problem is if you have a particularly bad flu season, then can be prone season, then that can be prone to crisis. so it depends on which way you look at it. it's not necessarily about mismanagement, it's about the model we have and trying to optimise for efficiency. >> of the things i thought >> one of the things i thought was interesting was that was quite interesting was that they're in wales

they're asking people in wales to they make peak to help. they want to make peak discharges more effective, more streamlined and all the rest of it. so if you've got a family member and you can help taking them in to free up that bed space, please do so. this comes down to the old problem that down to the age old problem that nobody seems capable of resolving with any kind of real credibility. i know people have tried and failed and had a proposal and then withdrew it and all the rest of it. social care in this country because bed blockers and i don't mean to be rude people because i know rude to people because i know you but people up you know, but people taking up bed space don't need to be bed space that don't need to be there massive issue in the nhs. >> yeah, but the fact that need to be there is an interesting comment in itself because that's actually a change that's arisen comment in itself because that's actuethea change that's arisen comment in itself because that's actuethe wayange that's arisen comment in itself because that's actuethe way medicine's arisen from the way medicine's practised. be the practised. so it used to be the case the nhs that you'd go in case in the nhs that you'd go in for an operation and you'd naturally stay a week, be naturally stay a week, you'd be expected to stay a week even though need though you didn't need to, because part of the because that was part of the treatment doctors were treatment the doctors were watching, were watching, the nurses were watching. you'd be for in a watching. so you'd be for in a week or even two weeks with a gallstone. what's with

gallstone. what's happened with the very much the nhs is it's moved very much to of commoditized form to a sort of a commoditized form of delivery where you of surgical delivery where you go a particular type of go in a particular type of gallstone, say every gallstone is the same, not entirely, but you know mean. you know what i mean. a gallstone operation is a gallstone operation is a gallstone operation is a gallstone operation if you're going to have it or need a hip replacement a knee replacement or a knee replacement, becomes replacement, it becomes commoditize. course you commoditize. and of course you realise a clinician that you realise as a clinician that you don't need have don't actually need to have these hospital for these people in hospital for more afternoon. more than the afternoon. sometimes have them out sometimes you can have them out the so the next day, whatever. so you're trying shorten those you're trying to shorten those times them so it's times and get them out. so it's as the way medicine is as much the way medicine is practised as it is a social care crisis, because previously you wouldn't out. wouldn't be getting them out. you'd in. now you'd been keeping them in. now we get them out. but we need to get them out. but there isn't all we're someplace for go. but why no for them to go. but why is no one fixing this social care issue? why? why it what issue? well, why? why is it what issue? well, why? why is it what is fix in it? the fix in it? is the fix in it? the fix in it? one fix in it would be to say, yeah, you can stay a week in hospital and recover properly. yeah, proper medical yeah, but under proper medical care, do that, care, the capacity to do that, go back to the way it was. >> people will get in touch about they call about what they call convalescent hospitals, cottage

hospitals, whatever they were called. touch called. people will get in touch with say there was that with me and say there was that middle whatever, middle facility or whatever, where demand is now where if the demand is such now that you can't stay in a hospital whether you need to or you don't for a week and you don't need to for a week and you don't need to for a week and you beds that is you need those beds that is undeniable that there a undeniable that there is a problem the social problem in the social care system that we don't have that facility to help those people and one seems do anything and no one seems to do anything about it. >> is t'- about it. >> is true that the >> well, it is true that the government has promised to do somethingto something about promised to do something about it. well on his way to it. he was well on his way to doing something it. and in doing something about it. and in fact, sunak, when he was fact, rishi sunak, when he was chancellor exchequer, chancellor of the exchequer, introduced a special tax, introduced a tax, a special tax, which we are all paying, which was there sort out the social was there to sort out the social care problem. money's care problem. so the money's there. apparently we're all paying there. apparently we're all paying the for it. and i'm paying the tax for it. and i'm expecting the government to get on any moment now. on with it any moment now. that's i say. that's all i can say. >> why aren't they why are they. >> because they've spent it all. they've spent it all catching up on covid. that's why. >> why think there's this >> why do you think there's this real fix social care? real failure to fix social care? >> well, the nhs is really extraordinary. and so much as look, from left, i would look, i'm from the left, i would say was underfunded all

say this it was underfunded all the 2010 to 2020. but the way from 2010 to 2020. but it's that since it's it's true that since 2020 it's actually had lot of money put actually had a lot of money put to fundamentally there to it. and fundamentally there haven't improvements haven't been major improvements and can talk about and outcomes. we can talk about long decline takes a long long term decline takes a long time to fix what i would say is i the answer actually is i think the answer actually is more systemic work, which is an ageing we have a ageing population. we have a massive over massive growth in people over 65, over 85. why is 65, over 75, over 85. why is that relevant to this? because if you have the flu or pneumonia at 85, it's a darn sight more important. and of course , important. and of course, existential than if you're 45. so i think that's one of the big issues that that politicians, not just the government , they're not just the government, they're not just the government, they're not being straight with the electorate , but we victims electorate, but we are victims of our own success in so much as people are living longer and longer. there's more people longer. and there's more people who 95, that's going who are 75, 85, 95, that's going to mean quite a big profound shift in how we do health care, particularly around age related conditions. and frankly , we conditions. and frankly, we politicians aren't being honest about it. maybe it's going to take another ten, 20 years. it's as big challenge as climate as big a challenge as climate change in the medium term. what

bigger, in the bigger, bigger, bigger in the medium bigger, bigger, bigger in the me non bigger, bigger, bigger in the me no mention leslie saying how >> no mention leslie saying how come no one's mentioning all of the waiting lists that are out of control now , you're saying of control now, you're saying thanks to the strikes by doctors and consultants . what and nurses and consultants. what do you think to that? >> yeah, well, i was going to mention those because i think that's actually almost more interesting than the annual scares what's to scares about what's going to happenin scares about what's going to happen in the winter, which never normally happen in never normally does happen in the and we through the winter. and we get through the winter. and we get through the winter. and we get through the winter growth in the winter is the growth in waiting which the waiting lists, which is the thing i think is really worrying that the people that people are willing to put up with this and that you've got 7.8 million. that does involve some double counting . it might not be that counting. it might not be that high. it might be 6 million at the moment. from the figures i heard today. but it would whichever those numbers it whichever of those numbers it is, is a very serious number is, it is a very serious number for surgery. why for elective surgery. and why are people to up are people willing to put up with don't why with it? i don't know why i don't think people are willing to put up with it. >> they're not. but but what do you do? >> well, some people self—insure. people self—insure. sure. some people go bupa, some people go and get bupa, some people move away from the system

altogether. other people patiently and put up with patiently wait and put up with it and they live it and suffer. and they live with consequences of what with the consequences of what remains i know remains fundamentally. i know you're going i'm being you're going to say i'm being rude, remains fundamentally rude, but remains fundamentally a nationalised a soviet style nationalised system to provide system that was meant to provide care but doesn't care for everybody but doesn't provide for provide adequate care for everybody at all, does for some, i'm sure, but not for everybody . i'm sure, but not for everybody. >> do you think we need a root and branch evaluation of the nhs 7 and branch evaluation of the nhs ? is it doing what it's supposed to do? mushroomed and to do? it's mushroomed out and out out . do we need to start ' 7 in. again? >> well, it is highly efficient . >> well, it is highly efficient. so in terms of the proportion of our economy , our gdp that we our economy, our gdp that we spent on on health care spent on spend on health care significantly lower than somewhere united states somewhere like the united states or even france and germany and i think what that means is and i use the the use the analogy of the beds, the example 2.3 beds example of the beds, 2.3 beds per 1000 people in germany, it's over seven beds 1000. over seven beds per 1000. i think we have a think fundamentally we have a system which actually very system which is actually very efficient. hugely efficient. it's hugely efficient. it's hugely efficient. problem is it efficient. but the problem is it doesn't provide the doesn't necessarily provide the outcomes you want what outcomes that you want to. what are the alternatives? we often point to united states which point to the united states which whatever your thoughts about the

uk, united states uk, i think the united states has probably most has probably the most dysfunctional system dysfunctional health care system in world. and i think in the world. and i think fundamentally that undermines the capacity for a smart argument around this. i think it works. i think it needs more cash. but what i would say is what i said a moment ago, which is hold on with the scale of ageing and what that means, we can't just say an extra ten, 20, 30 billion will solve it. we need something much bigger for social care. >> judy says . why none of you >> judy says. why none of you talking patient talking about patient responsibility ? i have been responsibility? i have been a nurse for 40 years. i think the insinuation in there is perhaps people are not looking after themselves well they themselves as well as they could. paul says. my wife was in a&e colchester hospital a few a&e at colchester hospital a few weeks army came in at 6 weeks ago. the army came in at 6 am. and helped our soldier did her cannula and the ecg arrived at 9:45 pm. and left at 11 am. the next day. can't fault the staff at all. i know, but do you think it's a bit weird? i mean, i don't know the circumstances, but the army is sticking the cannula in. really? that's a sign a broken society, isn't

sign of a broken society, isn't it? you tell me. gb views a gbnews.com i've got a lot coming your i to talk to you your way. i want to talk to you about poppy. is that about the poppy. is that a symbol that is still respected? why being told wear it why are we being told to wear it with pride? because people are worried violence and worried about violence and people afraid, intimidated people are afraid, intimidated about out sell them. about to go out and sell them. what's you

these rallies, these palestinian rallies on . saturday hi there, rallies on. saturday hi there, michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. >> conservative life peer in the house of lords, daniel moylan alongside me, as is the co—founder of novara media. aaron basta . ani, welcome back, aaron basta. ani, welcome back, everybody . lots of you getting everybody. lots of you getting in touch . who's is thomas says in touch. who's is thomas says michelle, please, can you tell aaron that the nhs is far from efficient ? we're just talking efficient? we're just talking about whether or not the nhs is doing what it's supposed to do. what does it need more of? is it funds? is it people? lots of you say, well, what about brexit? michelle, you've lost loads of

nurse the rest of nurse staff and all the rest of it because of that. are you experiencing the experiencing challenges at the moment? wales and moment? are you in wales and what are you going to do? or you've been asked to respect you know, only know, basically you're only going if you are going to the a&e if you are pretty much dying. that's my words, does that words, not theirs. does that bother do you think that's bother you? do you think that's bafic bother you? do you think that's basic in touch basic good advice? get in touch and me know. want to and let me know. now i want to talk you about poppies. of talk to you about poppies. of course. this year's poppy appeal. this is quite interesting we've interesting because now we've seen instances where are seen instances where people are saying they feeling nervous about wearing one of these out and about . also as well, some and about. also as well, some poppy and about. also as well, some poppy sellers are saying that they have fell intimidated. apparently, there's been some struggles trying to get people to volunteer to sell them in different areas . you've had mps different areas. you've had mps coming out today urging brits to wear them with pride , which got wear them with pride, which got me thinking about poppies. do you think that we still, as a nafion you think that we still, as a nation , respect the symbol? do nation, respect the symbol? do you think it's still got that kind of level of gravitas, particularly with the younger generation as well? well a lot of thought went in a lot of

thought went into this in the 1990s, actually, because i think they realised john major's government realised that most of the who actually the people who actually remembered dying out . remembered were dying out. >> one thing back in the >> there's one thing back in the day where most people knew somebody who had either fought in the war or they'd lost somebody in the war or whatever, either fighting or bombed in their house or whatever it was. and that day was a day of particular remembrance, not just for as a whole, for the nation as a whole, but for the nation as a whole, but for people known . by for the people you'd known. by the you're getting to the the time you're getting to the 1990s, you're getting to the stage where obviously nearly everybody who remembered the first was first world war was was was dying and numbers . so dying out. and large numbers. so in there was a slight in a sense there was a slight reinvention. often thought of reinvention. often i thought of the way which remembrance the way in which remembrance day is . we had the introduction is seen. we had the introduction of having the two minute silence on armistice day itself. the on on armistice day itself. the 11th of november, which is now treated. i see in the newspapers as an ancient tradition. but i can assure you dates from the 1990s, lot of our ancient 1990s, like a lot of our ancient traditions, maybe, so on. so traditions, maybe, and so on. so there slight reinvention there a slight reinvention on. and i the thing is a and i think the thing is a little bit vulnerable in that sense has to be

sense because it has to be reinvented continue to be reinvented to continue to be relevant at a time when the memories are now largely gone. of both the world wars . of both the world wars. >> see, i've got to say , i wear >> see, i've got to say, i wear my poppy >> see, i've got to say, i wear my poppy almost as a sign of gratitude for the freedom and the lifestyle that we're all able to lead because the sacrifice that people give, i'm not sure that i remember particular individuals to your point, as you say, but it is just a gratitude from my perspective. where are you on what daniel was just saying? >> well, i think paradoxically, young people and kids are are more prone to receiving this stuff than the average person because, of course, they're in these big institutions, schools. they're they're in school assemblies. they will be told all manner of they'll be all manner of things. they'll be all manner of things. they'll be a collective service. there was when i was child. i presume when i was a child. i presume that still happens. so in a way, they're the of they're exposed to the kinds of rituals you're talking about, lord which you lord daniel, which i think you know , i think it could be

know, i think it could be overplayed that they're forgetting those things and so on the last post and whatnot. so i think there's that what i would is about would say is about the gratitude. think right. gratitude. i think that's right. you know, really been you know, it's really been brought focus for me, brought into focus for me, particularly russia, ukraine and the know, the possibility of, you know, a war on the continent. and we are very fortunate country. very fortunate in this country. it's cliche and i heard it it's a cliche and i heard it obviously repeatedly as child, obviously repeatedly as a child, you granted. we're you take it for granted. we're surrounded hard surrounded by water, quite hard to invade . there is generally to invade. there is generally peace and prosperity across europe regardless. and there has been for my entire life, for all of our lives and that may not be the case forever . it probably the case forever. it probably won't be. so i think that's right about about the gratitude and not that peace , and about not taking that peace, that prosperity for granted. do you think that there's this sense because i've noticed so this poppy, was knitted for me by a viewer, actually. >> thank you, susan , if you're >> thank you, susan, if you're watching. but when i wear like the paper ones, like that, they move around, they slip around , move around, they slip around, sometimes they fall out. whatever and people so angry whatever and people get so angry . we say, like, if my leaf has the audacity to slip around, if

i've not been paying attention, i'm tossing, you know, turning left, right. people getting left, right. people are getting so like , dare you be so angry, like, how dare you be so angry, like, how dare you be so disrespectful ? your leaf is so disrespectful? your leaf is not there. or somebody is not not there. or if somebody is not wearing one, how dare you not wearing one, how dare you not wear then what do you think wear one? then what do you think to of pressure around poppies? >> well, look, i think people have strong feelings about it because it's important. it matters . but think, yeah , matters. but i think, yeah, hectoring somebody in terms of what they should and what what they should wear and what they generally doesn't they should do generally doesn't work a strategy. i say that work as a strategy. i say that as on left. the as somebody on the left. the left very good at hectoring left is very good at hectoring people can you from people. i can tell you from experience not particularly experience it's not particularly productive. i think just explaining the explaining to people the importance commemoration, importance of commemoration, look, wear look, you don't have to wear a poppy to look, you don't have to wear a poppy to have reverence and respect for the people that passed away for freedoms. if passed away for our freedoms. if only it was that easy. so i think i think it's i think it's a bit bigger than simply wearing something to respect those that matter. much. something to respect those that ma'do. much. something to respect those that ma'do you much. something to respect those that ma'do you think. something to respect those that ma'do you think we give enough >> do you think we give enough time this period? because one time to this period? because one of viewers, is of my viewers, keith, is pointing out so many of the causes now have a month. so you have month for pride. have

have a month for pride. you have a for this. you have a a month for this. you have a month that, month for month for that, a month for this. we have like this. should we have like a proper full month of remembrance? >> no. perhaps we should have proper non full on weekends for everything else and not have a month of this a month of that and the month of the other for our identitarian politics. this is one of the few things that isn't identitarian, right? it's meant to be bringing people together should focus on together and we should focus on the value of that and not carry on worrying about identitarian stuff. >> helen you make interesting >> helen you make an interesting point . i might touch point as well. i might touch briefly on this in one of my other segments of the show. you say for some red poppies can be seen as glorifying war. she says. how come more people don't wear white to poppies symbolise peace? there you go. interesting point. speaking of peace, after the break, do you think the uk parliament now should put it to a vote about whether or not to call for a ceasefire? also as well, i want to talk to you about suella braverman, what she's been saying. she's in

trouble

radio.

>> hi there michelle dewberry seven conservative life peer in the house of lords, daniel moylan and the co—founder of novara media, aaron bastani, alongside me, we've just been talking about poppies. >> about the leaf >> stuart says about the leaf conversation . originally, conversation. originally, the poppies not have leaves. poppies did not have leaves. they were added at a later stage. poppies in the field do not have leaves, says stuart . not have leaves, says stuart. let's have a look. what you guys are saying. lots of you saying that you wear white poppies because you believe in peace . because you believe in peace. someone here, victor, saying the original idea of the poppy was to give ex—military who had been wounded a job making them to help bring them back into society . all of that has now society. all of that has now been forgotten in one of my viewers as well, making the point that actually this is not just about people that have died in the very historic wars many people are fighting today and are still getting harmed. that is claire that just made that

point. so thank you for that. graham says . michel, the british graham says. michel, the british legion says it doesn't matter how and where you, poppy, how and where you wear your poppy, just as long as you do. lots of people that helen's point my viewer from earlier saying about what about wearing for poppies peace. which leads me nicely onto my next subject, because the snp now submitted an amendment to the king's speech. basically, they want to see an immediate ceasefire in the israel—hamas conflict . right now israel—hamas conflict. right now there's a few divided opinions on this, not the least within the labour party, but on this point specifically about whether or not there should be a vote in parliament matter. where parliament on the matter. where are you on that? >> well, it's a vote in the house of commons. and of course, >> well, it's a vote in the hithey of commons. and of course, >> well, it's a vote in the hithey want�*nmons. and of course, >> well, it's a vote in the hithey want�*nn have and of course, >> well, it's a vote in the hithey want�*nnhave aid of course, >> well, it's a vote in the hithey want�*nn have a vote course, >> well, it's a vote in the hithey want�*nn have a vote in urse, if they want to have a vote in the house of commons, they should have vote in the house should have a vote in the house of voting the house of commons voting in the house of commons voting in the house of commons voting in the house of commons is what what the house commons it's a house of commons does. it's a democracy. someone wants democracy. so if someone wants to and the to propose something and the speaker of house commons speaker of the house of commons is see that put to is willing to see that put to a vote, that's a good thing. and

then people can express their view. be voting. i'm view. i wouldn't be voting. i'm not of commons, not in the house of commons, but if to the house of if it came to the house of lords, i wouldn't be voting in favour a motion because favour of such a motion because i wouldn't vote for any concession the concession to hamas at the moment, while they're holding concession to hamas at the moment,hostages. y're holding concession to hamas at the moment,hostages. that's lding innocent hostages. that's absolutely for absolutely the first step for me. they know where these hostages an hostages are. they're an organised body. they could release that's organised body. they could relea they that's organised body. they could relea they should that's organised body. they could relea they should do. that's organised body. they could relea they should do. i that's organised body. they could relea they should do. i have:'s organised body. they could relea they should do. i have no what they should do. i have no sympathy or talking to anybody who's any civilian who's holding any civilian hostages. yes the hostages. so it's a yes to the vote, ceasefire vote, but a no to the ceasefire from you. >> em fm- w- e on it? i think >> where are you on it? i think he's right. >> they're entitled to have a vote. but know the vote. but we know from the early day put forward day motion that was put forward by you by richard burgon that you wouldn't 100 by richard burgon that you wouldnvoting 100 by richard burgon that you wouldnvoting for 100 by richard burgon that you wouldnvoting for a 100 by richard burgon that you wouldnvoting for a ceasefire. people voting for a ceasefire. and think this to me and i think this to me underscores point, and i think this to me under:is»res point, and i think this to me underris no point, and i think this to me underris no political point, and i think this to me underris no political pointin which is no political party in this major political this country, no major political party, party party, neither the labour party nor for nor the tories will call for a ceasefire until washington does. because of brexit, we've had a conversation country conversation in this country about control, about taking back control, making all making britain great again. all these things. the fundamental making britain great again. all theseis|ings. the fundamental making britain great again. all theseis|ingthe he fundamental making britain great again. all theseis|ingthe bigundamental making britain great again. all theseis|ingthe big questionsal making britain great again. all theseis|ingthe big questions on truth is on the big questions on foreign policy, the party, foreign policy, the uni party, which the which is to say the establishment within both labour which is to say the estathe hment within both labour which is to say the estathe tories within both labour which is to say the estathe tories haven both labour which is to say the estathe tories have on oth labour which is to say the estathe tories have on foreign)ur and the tories have on foreign policy a great deal of consensus which is nobody in this country determines our foreign policy. instead it's set by washington

andifs instead it's set by washington and it's not said, it's not mentioned. if joe biden did a press conference in an hour saying i'm demanding a ceasefire. keir starmer would come out 90 minutes later saying i demand a ceasefire. rishi sunak would be half an hour later and i think that says something quite extraordinary. mary actually quite mary and actually quite profoundly worrying about the state of our politics that a country with what, the fifth, sixth largest economy in the world, a storeyed military of our own , doesn't act our own, doesn't act independently of a country thousands of miles away . thousands of miles away. >> do you agree with that, that we don't essentially have our own ideas when it comes to foreign policy? own ideas when it comes to foreign piaaron hasn't said >> well, aaron hasn't said what the do they're the snp would do and they're the ones mean, ones moving the motion. i mean, that's our eyes that's what we're all our eyes are focussed on what the snp was doing. >> they're the party right precisely. >> called for a for a for >> biden called for a for a for a consensus. mean there's an a consensus. i mean there's an element in what what element of truth in what what aaron says because peace aaron says because our peace and security the last 60 or 70 security over the last 60 or 70 years has depended on being very close to the united states. and you don't depart from united you don't depart from the united states there's a very states unless there's a very

compelling so . compelling reason to do so. doesn't mean to say we always slavishly them. we went slavishly follow them. we went through we went through in my childhood, we went through the vietnam war. we never we never fought in vietnam. we never fought in vietnam. we never to vietnam never sent soldiers to vietnam from country, though from this country, even though the americans would have been thrilled we'd the americans would have been thrill< so. we'd the americans would have been thrill

country owes ed miliband. we should shouldn't have done should we shouldn't have done that. americans have that. the americans would have would we'd would have gone ahead if we'd given support to do given them the support to do that. have influence that. so we do have influence and a degree of control. and i find it some of the angles coming from i quite coming from the us i find quite interesting because there was talk the package . talk about the aid package. >> i think it's about 12, 14 billion something, but then billion or something, but then there's of focus on there's been a lot of focus on one the security speakers. he one of the security speakers. he was saying that they will give to israel , they will back israel to israel, they will back israel and there's no red line, as he said that a little while ago . said that a little while ago. and then reclassified it and then he reclassified it again . i don't know. i think it again. i don't know. i think it was yesterday something like again. i don't know. i think it was ywhere ay something like again. i don't know. i think it was ywhere he's something like again. i don't know. i think it was ywhere he's basically|g like that, where he's basically saying for israel is saying the support for israel is unconditional. the unconditional. there's the money, there's the things. no red clarified again. so is red lines clarified again. so is there nothing that israel could do that would make you you worry, withdraw support and all the rest of it. and the answer came back no. yeah. what do you think that? think to that? >> it's i think it's >> i think it's i think it's outrageous. actually, just >> i think it's i think it's ou pickeous. actually, just >> i think it's i think it's ou pick up;. actually, just >> i think it's i think it's ou pick up both actually, just >> i think it's i think it's ou pick up both of :tually, just >> i think it's i think it's ou pick up both of your.y, just >> i think it's i think it's ou pick up both of your points, to pick up both of your points, really , we have to start really, we have to start behaving independently of the united states because they don't

face the downsides of the mistakes they make . so when iraq mistakes they make. so when iraq isinvaded mistakes they make. so when iraq is invaded in 2003, what does it do? it creates calamity across the region, creates refugee is the region, creates refugee is the same with afghanistan , the the same with afghanistan, the same with libya. where do those refugees go? they go to europe . refugees go? they go to europe. they don't go to the united states . when we go have a face states. when we go have a face off with putin, whose energy pnces off with putin, whose energy prices go up, it's not america's , it's europe's. so this idea that we have to be in hock with the americans each and every time, no , because of geography, time, no, because of geography, because of their energy resources is don't to resources, is they don't have to face downsides of the face the downsides of the choices make. we do. it's choices they make. we do. it's very easy to make choices very easy to make these choices for well very for fracking. well it's very easy all these easy to make all these choices when actually when you don't have to actually have to be subjected to any of the of the pitfalls and time after time, europe is facing those. and our leaders don't do anything about it. finally, on this point of the gazans, israel could could displace 2.5 million gazans. where are they going to go? egypt. gazans. where are they going to 90-7 egypt- eqypt gazans. where are they going to go? egypt. egypt said private ali. we will send them to europe. america is not going to

have to take them. we do. and yet our politicians don't act independently of us interests because we say western interests. mean american interests. we mean american interests. we mean american interests. people that interests. and the people that have for that are have to pay for that are europeans , and include britons europeans, and i include britons in that. don't about in that. we don't talk about this, i don't why . this, and i don't know why. >> do think that's fair, >> do you think that's fair, that turning blind that everyone's turning a blind eye, the that eye, perhaps to the point that aaron's geography matters, >> well, geography matters, and we're exposed different ways, we're exposed in different ways, but economy . i mean, but it's also economy. i mean, actually, the that actually, it isn't the case that some of these middle eastern refugees make their way refugees don't make their way to the because quite refugees don't make their way to tilot because quite refugees don't make their way to tilot them because quite refugees don't make their way to tilot them through; quite refugees don't make their way to tilot them through latine a lot of them do through latin america, there america, actually. and there is a there well . a route through there as well. and it is true that the americans have better natural resources they've resources because they've actually them by doing actually exploited them by doing fracking allow our fracking. and we don't allow our companies to do that. so we could do things better and be more united states if more like the united states if we and by the way, we tried harder. and by the way, we tried harder. and by the way, we have a plan to stop the boats, which know more boats, which we'll know more about middle november. boats, which we'll know more aboit middle november. boats, which we'll know more aboi mean, middle november. boats, which we'll know more aboi mean, the ddle november. boats, which we'll know more aboi mean, the day november. boats, which we'll know more aboi mean, the day that ovember. boats, which we'll know more aboi mean, the day that we mber. >> i mean, the day that we actually stop those, you just said, oh, yeah, you the uk said, oh, yeah, you know, the uk is surrounded and is surrounded by water and therefore quite difficult to invade. don't think it's very invade. i don't think it's very difficult to invade the caravan, stop dinghies coming , but

stop a few dinghies coming, but don't us diverted onto stop a few dinghies coming, but don' topic. us diverted onto stop a few dinghies coming, but don'topic. you us diverted onto stop a few dinghies coming, but don' topic. you justiiverted onto stop a few dinghies coming, but don' topic. you just said ed onto stop a few dinghies coming, but don' topic. you just said you nto that topic. you just said you don't support the ceasefire. so what next move what do you think the next move should i think the i'm should be then? i think the i'm afraid israel has to keep up military pressure until until hamas . hamas. >> the outcome of this is that hamas, as organisation to hamas, as an organisation has to cease exist . cease to exist. >> let me just push on that, though. keep up though. when you say keep up military pressure, just military pressure, you mean just continue bombing gaza? >> not saying >> no, i'm not saying necessarily gaza because necessarily bombing gaza because bombing isn't bombing isn't eventually to bombing isn't bombing isn't eve these( to bombing isn't bombing isn't eve these people to bombing isn't bombing isn't eve these people out to bombing isn't bombing isn't eve these people out there to bombing isn't bombing isn't eve these people out there is:o get these people out there is going to be i'm not going to have to be i'm not a military person. probably going to to be other things to do to have to be other things to do with that involve closer contact and direct contact in order and more direct contact in order to get the hamas military isolated at and eventually out. but hamas can't continue to exist as an organisation . it's exist as an organisation. it's not just a poison to israel and to gaza and in the middle east. it is a poison and a threat to us. it has to cease to exist and the israelis, i think, are entitled to do that. >> with what? because, well, i don't know what you replace with, but. >> isn't always the case >> but it isn't always the case that you when get rid

>> but it isn't always the case th.something| when get rid >> but it isn't always the case th.something| whe it get rid >> but it isn't always the case th.something| whe it getsjet rid of something bad, it gets replaced something worse . replaced with something worse. so there are people there are many millions many, many millions of palestinians actually would palestinians who actually would like to have a half decent government and are in government and who are not in favour of hamas. and there are people but people in the west bank, but israel is doing things as israel is doing bad things as well. should not be well. israel should not be colonising the west bank and settling west bank and the colonising the west bank and settlitg west bank and the colonising the west bank and settlit has. west bank and the colonising the west bank and settlit has. andst bank and the colonising the west bank and settlit has. and i'veink and the colonising the west bank and settlit has. and i've i,( and the colonising the west bank and settlit has. and i've i, davidthe way it has. and i've i, david believe, open letter. believe, has an open letter. i don't has legal don't believe it has a legal a proper legal basis for doing that. really to that. and it needs really to think that because the think about that because the only if the only only way netanyahu if the only way israel can assemble a government using its rickety proportional representation system and an argument system and what an argument against pr the israeli knesset is , if they can't assemble a is, if they can't assemble a government without giving license to extreme groups to go and settle other people's land in an occupied territory which they have no legal title to, then they really need to think about electoral reform, i think, as a minimum. >> well, what as a minimum. >> well , what do as a minimum. >> well, what do you make to it all? where are you that all? where are you on that topic? a lot to come. i topic? there's a lot to come. i want to bring you into the conversation after the break. i can tell you you're really

divided . keefe says israel divided. keefe says israel absolutely needs to push on. ian says it's not up to the uk government to call anything . we government to call anything. we should not have a ceasefire , should not have a ceasefire, says tony. that is basically adverts for hamas . and john says adverts for hamas. and john says we simply follow the us like lapdogs. i'll tell you after the break as well, i want to pick up about suella braverman. she's in trouble again. when is she? not quite frankly, she says that the police standards police have double standards when how they police when it comes to how they police protesters right protesters from the right versus from the left. what do you think

hi there, michelle dewberry. till 7:00 tonight, lord daniel moylan alongside me, as is aaron bastani from novara media . lots bastani from novara media. lots of you guys getting in touch on some of the topics that we've been talking about today, whether or not there should be a ceasefire. steve, you did make

me chuckle because in the break you said it really baffles me how many people in this country that for a ceasefire or that call for a ceasefire or anything else, quite frankly , anything else, quite frankly, think that hamas is going to stop and pay attention to them. well never say never. that's what i say . well never say never. that's what i say. i'll tell you who's in trouble suella in trouble today. suella braverman and braverman when is she not? and i mean that seriousness, mean that in all seriousness, because opens her because every time she opens her mouth, really seem to mouth, people really seem to lose their minds and be calling for her sacking. well, today it's all kicked off again because she did an article in the times newspaper. there's been this whole kind of argument about whether or not that was a sanctioned article or not. apparently not. but the gist of it was she's saying that during the protest, the police essentially have double standards. so, for example, dunng standards. so, for example, during the covid protests , during the covid protests, people were kind of if you did something that you shouldn't have been done been doing, the police were on you like really, really on you. then flip over to the black lives matter the blm. black lives matter protests and the police basically allowed people to break the rules instead of

arresting them, taking the knee in solidarity is their double standards in policing? >> yeah , but i don't think it >> yeah, but i don't think it works quite on the basis of equality because actually the right don't march . right don't march. >> there are very few right wing marchers, so you can't say the police treat right wing marchers one way and they treat left wing marchers the other way. in one way and they treat left wing m straightforward er way. in one way and they treat left wing mstraightforward comparison in one way and they treat left wing mstraightforward comparison .1 a straightforward comparison. but what does happen is that as far of the left wing far as a lot of the left wing causes concerned , in the causes are concerned, in the interests what they call interests of what they call community relations, as the police in on a consistent police invite in on a consistent bafis police invite in on a consistent basis , representatives of groups basis, representatives of groups which are very often allied and sympathetic with those who are marching on the left so that everything can be smoothed out in advance. and so it's all kid glove stuff, whereas the moment you look like anything like white working class, especially if you have an england flag , i if you have an england flag, i mean a cross of saint george anywhere near your person , anywhere near your person, you're treated as if you are a threat to the peace just for that. and i think people feel that. and i think people feel that very, very strongly, increasingly strongly. and i thought this was actually quite

a carefully considered article thought this was actually quite a cathatly considered article thought this was actually quite a cathat she)nsidered article thought this was actually quite a cathat she wrote �*ed article thought this was actually quite a cathat she wrote today. cle thought this was actually quite a cathat she wrote today. and and that she wrote today. and it's very interesting that the people who are furious about it are not saying that she was wrong . they're saying wrong. they're saying she shouldn't it , wrong. they're saying she shouldn't it, which is shouldn't have said it, which is a different of a very different type of argument . don't these argument. they don't like these things exposed . things being exposed. >> and i agree with >> i read it and i agree with you. i think it was a very considered article. it probably won't of you to won't surprise many of you to know that i agreed with an awful lot what she was saying. lot of what she was saying. where are you on it, aaron yeah, this idea that white people with england flags are policed very harshly . harshly. >> i mean, if you just remember the scenes from the european championships final and what was it, 20, 21, there was a gentleman with flare coming gentleman with a flare coming out backside . thousands out of his backside. thousands of in london. you of people in london. you probably remember the england italy . i remember well. it italy final. i remember well. it was policed lightly . i will was policed very lightly. i will have have to slightly have to i'll have to slightly correct you there on that, daniel. >> p a p- daniel. >> a right wing march. >> it wasn't a right wing march. >> it wasn't a right wing march. >> look, lots >> no, no. but look, it was lots of people were being policed of people who were being policed club. policed . club. yeah, but it was policed. it a very light it was policed in a very light touch way. and i think that's

true with some of these protests too. i agree and concede too. and i agree and i concede your about the community your point about the community relations. on relations. what i would say on suella is she talks a suella braverman is she talks a lot . she doesn't seem to do very lot. she doesn't seem to do very much . she talked about , lot. she doesn't seem to do very much . she talked about, i much. she has talked about, i think, a reasonable distinction in the treatment of people who were anti—vaxxers, anti—vax protests , ice and the blm protests, ice and the blm protests, ice and the blm protests in 2021. she's spoken about that. i think that's a reasonable point to make. guess who attorney general in who was attorney general in 2021? suella braverman so it's almost like she's had no say oven almost like she's had no say over, but it's almost it's almost general. >> she's the legal adviser to the government. >> she's she's the home >> she's she's now the home secretary she's one of the most powerful politicians the powerful politicians in the country. she's country. it's almost like she's a a pundit when in a journalist or a pundit when in fact, you're one of the fact, no, you're one of the people command us. one of people who command us. one of the major levers of power in this country. >> that is the point. she does not command. >> well, she does because the police, the metropolitan police service is answerable to the home not command the >> she does not command the police, only it's also to police, not only it's also to the mayor. >> and does command >> and she does not command the police operational level. police at an operational level. and of course , what we've seen and of course, what we've seen is government havering about

is the government havering about whether should be tried to whether it should be tried to command the police to do something and a something and backing off. and a lot of people would say that was the to that you lot of people would say that was the leave to that you lot of people would say that was the leave these that you lot of people would say that was the leave these decisionsj lot of people would say that was the leave these decisions to should leave these decisions to the man charge on the ground . the man in charge on the ground. raleigh two sides to that argument. but i don't think it's fair to say that she is the most powerful person. she could snap her not saying her fingers. i'm not saying that. would would that. and the police would would ban these marches. >> question. she is >> here's a question. she is always headlines . what >> here's a question. she is alw¢she headlines . what >> here's a question. she is alw¢she accomplished s . what >> here's a question. she is alw¢she accomplished as what has she accomplished as a politician? tell me. the politician? you tell me. the good fareham have good people of fareham have voted person in repeatedly. voted this person in repeatedly. what accomplished voted this person in repeatedly. wh well, accomplished voted this person in repeatedly. wh well, that :complished voted this person in repeatedly. wh well, that is»mplished voted this person in repeatedly. wh well, that is that shed voted this person in repeatedly. wh well, that is that would to >> well, that is that would to be take time on a short be take too much time on a short show , a short of the show, a short segment of the show. a top one. show. give us a top one. >> give the top one. she >> just give me the top one. she she is, i am sure, going to be successful a matter of days successful in a matter of days in court when they in the supreme court when they give judgement on the give their judgement on the rwanda deportation policy and should they put that in place in an imaginative and effective way and see it being and we'll see it being implemented . some of the things implemented. some of the things that says she is for now. that she says she is for now. the issue is how do we as a society police groups that insist that there agenda trumps

any notion of the broader public good as defined by the public, not by activists? that's what she's saying about when it all comes to down even handedness . comes to down even handedness. she talks about she doubles down, she stands by her definition and description of these marches have been hate marches . she says that don't marches. she says that don't believe the marches are merely a cry for help for gaza. they are an assertion of primacy by certain groups, particularly islamists , she says. do you islamists, she says. do you agree with her on that? >> no, i think it's nonsense. i know many jewish people have been on protests yesterday been on these protests yesterday or the day before. you had alex chalk, of colleagues chalk, one of our colleagues in the did agree the cabinet. did agree with that. frankly. said are that. frankly. he said there are many these many good people on these protests. protest, protests. like any protest, there'll it's there'll be good and bad. it's i think it's naive to say that there are no bad people on these protests, but i think protests, of course, but i think on saturday we'll be seeing a very protest, than very large protest, larger than any . the idea that you any so far. the idea that you have half a million islamists on the streets of london is frankly ridiculous. think that the streets of london is frankly ridic is)us. think that the streets of london is frankly ridicis reflected think that the streets of london is frankly ridicis reflected think polling that is reflected in her polling with public. think about

with the public. i think about 16% of electorate approve of 16% of the electorate approve of the and i can the job she's doing. and i can see why. all she does is play to the press the cameras, do the press releases , and in terms of action releases, and in terms of action and execution, not do much. and execution, not do very much. >> there was a labour >> i saw there was a labour graphic that was put up on twitter. i think i've got it. i can just show it to you . i can just show it to you. i thought it was pretty ridiculous, really. look ridiculous, really. and i look at it and i think, really, is this level at this the kind of level look at that you're that spineless. if you're listening not watching, listening, not watching, it's wibbly on s wibbly wobbly. sunak on the s and then suella grinning away on the bottom. there and i think it's really ridiculous. and i must confess, the only match i've ever been on is a fast one to the bar to try and get in before last orders. i'm not a protester. i don't to take the streets, but i know that many people are really very , very people are really very, very frustrated and angry now , by the frustrated and angry now, by the way, if they have the audacity to want to defend aid our country or if they're patriotic or if they want to defend the senator or have traditions respected , then they are respected, then they are regarded as far right. and i

think it's really an awful thing. i think it's really annoying. frustrating a lot of people, the media do it all all the time, i'm ashamed to say. actually i even saw a tweet from gb news yesterday doing the same thing . i think it's a lazy trope thing. i think it's a lazy trope and it only gets applied to one side, i.e. those on the right. it never the definition of the few . the minority never gets few. the minority never gets appued few. the minority never gets applied to the other side. but let me ask you specifically about suella braverman. do you think she should be sacked ? think she should be sacked? >> wouldn't dream of >> oh, i wouldn't dream of advising the prime minister how to his cabinet. i don't to compose his cabinet. i don't think she pretend he's think she should pretend he's not listening. think she should pretend he's notandening. think she should pretend he's not and tell|. think she should pretend he's not and tell me, think she should pretend he's notand tell me, you think she >> and tell me, do you think she should >> and tell me, do you think she shoshe's >> and tell me, do you think she sho she's nothing >> and tell me, do you think she shoshe's nothing that >> she's done nothing that nothing sacking nothing that justifies sacking her? that i can see. certainly not article which i read not in this article which i read thinking i would hairs thinking i would have the hairs on back of my neck of on the back of my neck sort of bristling with horror. and it turned out be very moderate turned out to be a very moderate and sensible article. but do you think causing problems think she's causing problems now because she's coming out with very statements, very bold statements, whether it's it's it's hate marches, whether it's this, the other, and this, that and the other, and people saying is people are saying that she is causing the party.

causing divisions in the party. >> undermining >> she's undermining rishi sunak. that reason sunak. and it's for that reason i think the country is looking to the government leadership to the government for leadership and government and it looks to the government collectively and it looks to the government collect the! and it looks to the government collect the prime minister. do just to the prime minister. do you think she should have cabinet you said she she's done >> well, you said she she's done nothing . i would just nothing wrong. i would just remove and she's done remove a word and say she's done nothing that applies nothing wrong. and that applies to frankly, since to the tories. frankly, since we've of covid, we've come out of covid, nothing's like nothing's happened. it's like the autopilot and the country is on autopilot and my it's autopilot my worry is that it's autopilot plus this kind constant plus this kind of constant stream of public relations and press releases from this, this person clearly , frankly, person who's clearly, frankly, let's be honest, launched a leadership bid for when or if the tories are in opposition for the tories are in opposition for the next general election. there is no way to run a country of 68 million when the million people when you're the home not good home secretary it's not good enough. sacked, enough. i'd say be sacked, but what replaced what would she be replaced by? i mean, question. what would she be replaced by? i me sean question. what would she be replaced by? i me sean says, question. what would she be replaced by? i me sean says, canjestion. what would she be replaced by? i me sean says, can iastion. what would she be replaced by? i me sean says, can i just1. what would she be replaced by? i me sean says, can i just say how >> sean says, can i just say how inspirational suella braverman is? how forthright views of exactly what i think the majority supports and wants their politicians to be like? have the courage of your convictions and then the electorate might , as he says, electorate might, as he says, understand who they are. truly

be voting for. i think aaron's point is a good one because i do think as well she talks, talk tough talk. she really does have language that a lot of people will get behind. of course, it goes without saying. a lot of people will be turned off by her language but you tell language as well. but you tell me you love suella, you me if you love suella, if you back you're telling me if you love suella, if you bac that you're telling me if you love suella, if you bac that speaks|'re telling me if you love suella, if you bac that speaks for telling me if you love suella, if you bac that speaks for you, 1g me if you love suella, if you bac that speaks for you, what me that she speaks for you, what is primary achievement in is her primary achievement in her role that you hold up as the best one that you must connect with? darren said it's a fabulous strategy. if you fire her, she's brilliantly positioned for her leadership bid after the next election. if you keep her, she can undermine sunak at will. do you think she wants to be the leader? >> i have no idea at all. she did stand when there was we were last given a vote. we're not often given a vote in the conservative party as to who should be leader of the party. but the last time were given but the last time we were given a was a candidate. but a vote, she was a candidate. but she terribly with she didn't get terribly far with the says. the mps, karen says. >> i don't with much >> i don't disagree with much that for that suella says, but for goodness sake , to aaron's point, goodness sake, to aaron's point, when more than just

when will she do more than just talking actually take some talking and actually take some action? bernard says , well, she action? bernard says, well, she can't put her words into action because she doesn't have the support it. i'll end on support to do it. i'll end on that note, aaron. thank you very much for company. that note, aaron. thank you very much for company . lord much for your company. lord moylan. you for yours. moylan. thank you for yours. thank especially to thank you. especially thanks to you don't go anywhere, you at home. don't go anywhere, nigel farage. up next, tonight . nigel farage. up next, tonight. >> good evening. a bit of a chilly start tomorrow, but for most it'll be a fine bright day with sunny spells, some heavy showers, particularly in the south early on, we've still got low dominating the low pressure dominating the scene. still spinning scene. so it is still spinning up. showers and up. plenty of showers and particularly tonight as the isobars squeeze together across south wales and south west england. it's going to get very windy . so further heavy showers windy. so further heavy showers to in here, the showers to come in here, the showers elsewhere tending to ease off. some lively ones around right now. fairly dry now. but turning fairly dry through the night for much of the midlands. england, the midlands. eastern england, northern and northern england, scotland and northern england, scotland and northern ireland where we've got the light winds, the clear skies and light winds, there frost across there will be a frost across parts of scotland. further south, holding up at 5 or south, mostly holding up at 5 or 6, but quite a wet start to the

morning for south wales and southwest england. heavy southwest england. some heavy showers through here. showers moving through here. they will move through and then get into the south—east for a time before tending to disappear, lunchtime. disappear, before lunchtime. showers through the day across northern scotland and some for northern ireland. and later on we'll see a few developing over north—west england and north wales. for a chunk of wales. but for a good chunk of the it's dry and bright the country, it's dry and bright day tomorrow. good spells of sunshine. cool side. sunshine. on the cool side. temperatures in single temperatures mostly in single figures, or the figures, maybe 11 or 12 in the south. certainly a cold start to the weekend, more extensive the weekend, a more extensive frost across northern britain the weekend, a more extensive fros1a|cross northern britain the weekend, a more extensive fros1a|crosfog»rthern britain the weekend, a more extensive fros1a|crosfog patches ritain the weekend, a more extensive fros1a|crosfog patches asiin the weekend, a more extensive fros1a|crosfog patches as well. and a few fog patches as well. but they've gone, most of but once they've gone, most of us having a fine day on saturday, still a few showers in northern scotland with a bit of a breeze and some rain down to the late on that'll the south—west late on that'll spread, and spread, enduring sunday and again sunday. some frost and again on sunday. some frost and fog early

on >> good evening. it's that woman suella again. a big article in the times today where she says the times today where she says the cops are not being even handed. >> they're being biased in terms of how they deal with protests. we'll ask, is she right? of how they deal with protests. we'll ask, is she right ? fewer we'll ask, is she right? fewer of us are wearing poppies this year and there are also fewer people out selling them. this people out selling them. is this because being bullied or because we're being bullied or is big cultural change is there a big cultural change taking place in our country ? and taking place in our country? and joining me on talking pints greg ainsworth. he was a royal marine , fought in afghanistan, went on to become a bodyguard to the beckhams. so he's got some great stories to tell. but before all of that , let's get the news with of that, let's get the news with sophia wenzler. >> i'm sophia wenzler in the gb newsroom . labour says suella newsroom. labour says suella braverman broke the ministerial code with an article she wrote for the times today. in it, the home secretary accuses the metropolitan police of playing favourites with pro—palestinian

protesters . labour's national