what he said about grand jury testimony when he was called. watch. >> i presented maybe two to 300 emails and text messages to them. i had them with me luckily in chronological order. they put two or three into evidence. i asked them are you going to put the rest of them into evidence? they said no. they said there is a legal issue with them. i said what is the legal issue? he said hearsay. >> dana: talk about that for a moment. >> there is no hearsay in the grand jury. in fact, the grand jury can investigate rumors and all that stuff. the hearsay rules apply at trial, not in the grand jury. bob is right about that. there was no reason on the basis of a hearsay objection not to put -- you could put newspaper articles in front of the grand jury. no reason not to put that information which may have been very important in front of the grand jury. >> dana: he also felt the

prosecutors weren't asking him questions and that he would say things that the grand jury would basically hurt the prosecution's case so they didn't ask him questions. i will say them anyway. the indictment came down. >> but dana, important point on that. something he said along those lines hits me like a thud. i have always been puzzled why it is the way they structured this indictment was the grand jury narrowly indicts on the business records. no recitation in the jury indictment. at the same time bragg puts out a statement that is a statement of fact. not a grand jury document, just bragg's document and his big recitation about the theft of the election and all that stuff. i wonder if they didn't put -- usually the prosecutor puts the statement of fact in the grand jury, in the indictment as

context for the charges. i wonder if bragg did that document separately because after costello's testimony he didn't think he would make his story fly with the grand jury. i think that's very possible. >> bill: okay. this is a guy, right, working in new york as the lawyer, right? so he meets with cohen. there is a hotel on park avenue for our viewers at home called the regency. michael cohen likes to go there a lot apparently. that's where they met. and during that meeting, this is what costello describes as cohen making the call to move forward on the nda, according to costello trump was on the outside of this entire deal. cohen's matter, he wanted to manage it and fix it. here is costello on that a moment ago. >> it was his idea to take care of the nda because he had been contacted by a lawyer of stormy

daniels claiming that trump had sex with her. cohen said i didn't believe the statement but it would be embarrassing to melania, michael cohen's words, and i decided to fix it myself. >> bill: that rings true like hope hicks three weeks ago. i don't know why trump's team wouldn't want that in front of the jury. >> i think you're right about that. i also think it's important we just make the timeline clearer for listeners so they understand this. cohen negotiated the non-disclosure agreement in october of 2016 prior to the election. his office gets raided by the f.b.i. in april of 2018 and that's when costello comes into the picture as his lawyer. so when you hear him say what he was thinking that stormy was thinking and about melania and

all that stuff, that is costello debriefing his client in 2018 about what he was doing in 2016 and what was going through his mind. because i think some people are under the misimpression that costello is in the story like in 2016. he actually doesn't come into it until well after that. >> dana: thank you so much. we have another wonderful guest to bring in. sean hannity. thank you for being with us, sean. we had this interview with robert costello. he testified in front of congress yesterday. a lot of people might not have seen the congressional testimony. what did you take away from what he said to all of us just a moment ago? >> dana, i can only -- great interview, watch you guys every day, love your show. it was devastating. what he is saying here, frankly, if they don't bring him in as a witness it would be insane. the grand jury issue is very

telling and andy mccarthy and jonathan turley's and others analysis have been great. he is saying no, his motivation was melania. he is also saying i did this on my own. he is basically contradicting the whole story impeaching all of the testimony and frankly undermining the entire case of the prosecution from top to bottom here. the jury needs to hear from bob costello. they need to watch your interview, to be very frank with you. they need to watch his congressional testimony and hear his opening statement which was equally devastating to me. when you put together all of this and you look at stormy daniels, for example. there was a lot of salacious innuendo in her joking and demeanor and so on and so forth. here is the problem. the biden donor judge allowed this to come up in this case.

all of it is irrelevant. all of it is im material. none of it has anything to do with the rule of law or the charges at hand. all of this is based on quote a bookkeeping error that was a misdemeanor whose statute of limitations had passed and they try to upgrade this into a felony using this obscene and frankly unprecedented legal theory of theirs. none of the law has been explained to the jury in all of this. and i think professor dershowitz made a great case about this. the idea that michael cohen, for example, taped his client. okay, in the case of bob costello. he is pointing out he waived attorney/client privilege. donald trump didn't waive attorney/client privilege with michael cohen. why would an attorney be taping their own client and then used in a court of law? that's insanity to me.

what dershowitz said they need to dive deep into the question of what were the conversations with the prosecutors and cohen like in the lead-up to this trial? because the michael cohen that's on the stand is obviously well prepared. if i had to guess -- it is only a guess -- i would say he probably spent, you know, hundreds and hundreds of hours preparing for his testimony. now, they impeach that within seconds by just showing the real michael cohen on tiktok and on his podcast wanting trump in jail, you know, using every -- i don't know -- phrase that new yorkers often use that is not exactly flattering, dana, you can relate to that a little bit. and understand it. but so that was the real michael cohen. i think with the jury michael

cohen is finished. i think stormy daniels did not come off as credible. here is the problem. you have a judge that clearly is compromised and should have recused himself. he donated to biden. issues over the work of his daughter come into play. then you have, of course, he will give jury instructions. what are they going to be? all of this is going to be very instrumental. it is a city, venue where nine out of ten voters are registered democrats. said from the beginning i don't think donald trump can get a fair trial in this venue. i don't think he can get a fair trial in d.c. or -- i lived in georgia for four years. i don't think he can get a fair trial in fulton county, georgia. not that i think these cases will make it to a courtroom. bob costello is devastating. he needs to be called as a witness. the jury needs to hear from him. they need to have the law

explained to them. this is a bookkeeping error upgraded to a felony? how did they come to this legal theory? if turley, mccarthy, jarret and dershowitz and every analyst on cnn can't tell you what donald trump is being charged with completely, that is a problem with our legal system. this goes to the heart of what conservatives have been arguing. the department of justice under joe biden has weaponized. the idea that the third highest ranking official in joe biden's justice department left that prestigious role, number two behind merrick garland to go to new york to prosecute joe biden's opponent in in election? that should shock the conscience and soul of the nation. we aren't a banana republic. we are a constitutional republic. the fact that law fare and

weaponization of the law and we are supposed to believe in equal justice and equal application of our laws, that is not happening in this current state of america. that's on the ballot in 172 days, guys. >> bill: thank you, sean, nice to have you on today. >> dana: who is counting? >> bill: mccarthy is still undefeated in his legal judgment so far. turley saying they should make a motion to dismiss to the judge immediately after december money -- testimony concludes. i can't see the judge doing that. a detective by the name of rosenberg told cohen about the indictment on donald trump. this is what the lawyer for donald trump is saying before it was unsealed. cohen is asked about that and he says no, nos. he says no, sir continuing to say he learned about donald trump's indictment is from "the new york times" article. maybe they know something. eric shawn may have an idea. back to eric downtown.

what have you got, eric? >> good morning, bill. they are trying to find out exactly what michael cohen knew and when did he know it and how close was he to prosecutors. the top question he could ask him this morning. mr. cohen, did you lie to this jury when you said that donald trump arranged and financed the whole stormy daniels deal and that you believe stormy daniels? it could be the question asked of michael cohen now they have the stunning new revelation from robert costello as we've been reporting this morning. cohen back on the stand during the cross examination. the claim from costello that cohen told him he didn't believe stormy daniels back in 2018 and that mr. trump had nothing to do with this deal to keep him quiet. costello appeared before the house judiciary subcommittee yesterday and ripped cohen's claims apart saying cohen admitted to him that trump did not know about the payments to the porn star and that cohen did

this deal alone. in his written testimony he said this, quote, cohen decided while he didn't believe the allegation he thought the story would be embarrassing for trump and especially for melania and decided to take care of this himself. when asked if trump had any knowledge of this cohen told me no. the trump defense team could use costello's claims to try to impeach cohen and his credibility if it's allowed. cohen is facing a cross examination from todd blanche. he is trying to undermine cohen's claims that he told the jury on monday. we'll see if anything that costello claimed can be allowed and brought in. as far as mr. costello testifying for the defense he said he hasn't been subpoenaed by the defense. the defense hasn't finalized its witness list. they may want an expert in the federal election system. the former president said he wants to testify. of course, it is the robert costello claims that michael

cohen told him a completely different story than he told the jury here on monday and tuesday. that is at the forefront of what people are talking about here. we'll see if it is brought into the cross examination later this morning. >> bill: you have it, eric. bring us up to date in a moment. what's happening now is they are apparently michael cohen did hundreds of podcasts. several times a week and the defense attorneys for trump want this portion entered and the prosecution objected. the judge overruled the prosecution. and the audio was just played in court from may 30th of 2023. about a year ago. the audio says this, quote, i want to thank the d.a.'s office and its fearless leader bragg for laying out payments and crimes. trump having his picture taken and fingerprinted brings me nothing but delight but sadness to the office of the presidency.

cohen's words were just played inside court. >> dana: everyone has a podcast apparently. a big morning so far. michael cohen is on the stand. we'll be right back. row your investment portfolio and your retirement money? the smart investor has their money in a guaranteed product that goes up with the market. their gains lock in, and when the market goes down, they don't lose money. forward with their money, never backward. and we do it for our clients every day. if you have at least $100,000 to invest, get your investor's guide and see if it's right for you. >> tech: does your windshield have a crack? trust safelite. this customer had auto glass damage, but he was busy working from home... ...so he scheduled with safelite in just a few clicks. we came to his house... then we got to work. we replaced his windshield... ...and installed new wipers to protect his new glass. >> customer: looks great. thank you.

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>> bill: a couple more notes here. cohen confirming on the stand right now he never met alvin bragg. the d.a. here in new york city that is just one of a number of things coming in right now. before the break we were telling you about the questions whether or not cohen got a head's up about the indictment coming for donald trump. apparently he says no, he did not. last year cohen went on cnn and said the case was like david against goal -- goliath.

he went on joy reid and blanche was asked if he remembered rosenberg commenting on the interview. he recalls ross en berg reaching out. the attorney for trump points out at the time the d.a.'s office was telling cohen not to talk about the case and a series of other things. confirms he never met bragg. then played for the jury. i hope he ends up if prison. the audio we relayed to you. blanche asked cohen if he said thinking about trump in otisville gave him joy. it sounds correct. talks about other things. blanche asked cohen if he played a role in the indictment. cohen says i took some credit. blanche asks if cohen recalled calling donald trump a dumb ass donald. he confirmed that as well. that's where we are at the

moment. >> dana: well, you are talking about me? talking about you. i'm talking about john yu joins us now. robert costello talked about cohen writing this book "revenge." his state of mind. >> this guy is saying i will lie, cheat, steal, do whatever i have to do. i'm not going to jail. he did go to jail. who do you think he blames for that? and why do you think he names his most recent book revenge? i mean, quite frankly he is using this to monetize himself because this is the only way this guy can make money right now. selling books and t-shirts and trinkets and being the ultimate anti-trumper. >> dana: that's one of the reasons costello said i'll raise my hand and say something here. people should know what the truth is. your thoughts on all that as we sit here today and cohen is on

the stand again. >> i watched that incredible interview just showed in its entirety with you and bill. i earlier thought maybe the defense might think about resting its case without putting on any witnesses. if they can really destroy cohen's credibility right now during cross examination. but no matter what happens in the cross examination, after what i just heard from bob costello i think trump should put him on as a witness. the reason why is because -- it fits with what you are hearing in the cross exam now which doesn't make sense. i think what it's doing is trying to show that cohen and the d.a. really cooperated. this has all been stage managed. cohen's testimony and demeanor is not the way he really is. the reason costello's testimony is important a dying declaration. in evidence law. he heard what cohen was saying before he thought he was going to kill himself. in the law that is seen as the

most credible statement. the most credible statements. if bob costello was to testify and say this guy was thinking about killing himself and when he thought he was going to die he was saying i have nothing on donald trump, i did this entirely. that will be, i think, the most believable evidence in this trial. that would destroy cohen's testimony. aligns quite strongly with donald trump's public statements about what happened here. now i think trump has to go and present this and go for it with the defense. >> bill: if we get another sound bite, an interview we did last hour of costello and went on for 20, 25 minutes. i think you are right about that. if you choose to believe costello. i view him as credible. >> dana: certainly. >> bill: he did work under the tutelage of rudy giuliani in new york and led him to cohen. at this stage in the trial you

can't afford, perhaps, not to call him. >> i have agree. the other thing to keep in mind is that -- this goes based on what you are reading from the cross exam. it sounds like blanche and trump are trying to paint, i think, cohen as sometimes what is called a useful idiot. someone who wants fame and money. more powerful people will tell him what to do. he wanted a deal. so i think that story would then fit in very well with costello's testimony. with that testimony you get cohen before any of that happened. before he is trying to please people. before he is being used as a pawn. i think what costello shows us is the real cohen. now, the other thing you do want to worry about, though, you mentioned this, bill and dana, trump is going to want to

testify, too. this is a smart trial tactic. trump's lawyers don't want him to testify. trump given his record. he has tried to testify twice in other proceedings thinks that through the force of his own presence and his own persuasiveness will be able to talk his way out of this. i don't think that's the case. maybe the lawyers can say we don't need you to get on the stand, mr. president. don't waive your fifth amendment rights. costello is enough to destroy cohen's credibility. >> dana: he said if he were blanche he would call himself because he is a reliable witness. >> bill: we have the sound bite from cohen's podcast that costello was talking about. it is called -- there is a lot of information there that is being used there. give it a listen. >> he does respond to the flattery. he is looking to make money and he has been making money. he has a podcast, apparently,

which it's ironic. latin that means through my fault. it is through his fault we're all here talking about this subject. >> bill: i don't know what the line of questioning is all about now, john, apparently trump's lawyers think that cohen was tipped off about the indictment. why would that be so important if they can prove that? >> well, one reason is if you are the defense, what you are trying to show now is that it's not really about cohen telling the truth. this is part of a campaign against donald trump. so the d.a. in their mind is breaking all kinds of jules. the judge is breaking all kinds of rules in their mind to get trump. one of those rules is you are not allowed to reveal the proceedings of a grand jury. it's criminal to leak what a grand jury is doing. the defense here is implying. maybe come stronger at it later. if the d.a. is telling michael cohen what's going on inside the grand jury room, the d.a.'s

office has committed a crime as well as michael cohen. that's one. the other thing they are consistently trying to slowly undermine the idea that michael cohen ever tells the truth to anybody. so maybe they've got a question or some kind of evidence coming later on that cohen really did know about the indictment beforehand and catching him in a lie. this is taking a long time. why not go hard at cohen right now? the way you would do that give him the documents. the lied, where he lied to congress or the special counsel robert mueller and have him read them out in front of the jury and give him the examples of the truth and have him read the truth and show him changing his positions and lying right in front of the jury. i think that would be the most effective tactic. maybe that will come later. this stuff you are hearing now is ground clearing. kind of getting ready for something like that. we haven't really, i think, hit the center of the attack on michael cohen's credibility yet. >> bill: wow, yet.

>> dana: here we go. >> bill: here is another one from costello explaining to dana and me at the time where he went down to the southern district of new york to talk with federal prosecutors. i think the anecdote is fascinating. costello in his own words. >> i was interviewed for a couple of hours with two ausa and two f.b.i. agents. at the end of that interview everybody was laughing because i showed how ludicrous the accusation was and they being the southern district of new york, never used michael cohen again. they didn't indict donald trump for anything and never used michael cohen and didn't give him any credit for his cooperation. that's a lesson the manhattan's d.a's afters should have learned but they haven't learned it yet. >> this is where the big legal issue is. only the united states justice department is allowed to prosecute people for violations of federal election law or any

federal law. the u.s. attorney's office in the southern district of new york. the finest one in the country. where bob worked and andy mccarthy worked, the best one in the country, the best trial prosecutors that the justice department has. they talked to all the witnesses. they conducted a full investigation and heard from bob costello and decided to drop it. now the bigger constitutional issue is a d.a. who is elected by people in manhattan can't then come in later and say i disagree with the justice department. i will prosecute the crime. that's exactly what bragg is doing here. that's why when costello said he thinks this would get overturned on appeal he is right on the facts, i think. but definitely right on law. the d.a. here has gone beyond his legal authority and actually treading on the power of the federal government. >> dana: thank you for your time and the trial continues. cohen is on the stand, cross examination underway. we have more great analysis coming right up after this very quick break.

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>> bill: so this just happened during the commercial break. the dow 30 broke 40,000 for the first time in history. it hit 40000.56 and retreated a couple of points. we closed above 30,000 -- never closed above 40,000 before. dow closed above 30,000 on november 24, 2020. i can remember ten or 15 years ago we were talking about the books they've written about dow 40,000 i thought they were nuts. here it is today. >> dana: i remember watching it in the fall of 2008. let's just say it wasn't this. >> bill: emphasis on the fall. >> dana: we'll follow that news and see how it ends up today. rich lowry and philippe rain. thank you for sticking around with us. you don't have to take your glasses off for us. you have the pretty eyes. we want to see them here.

michael cohen on the stand. robert costello in his interview with us said this guy is lying and the jury ought to hear about it. he wants to get out there and be a part of this -- he said if he were in todd blanche's shoes he would call himself as a witness. how are democrats digesting this? >> looking at the debate between biden and trump. i think it should be between costello and cohen. these guys don't like each other and have a lot to say against each other. democrats are watching it the same way republicans and americans are watching it. a former president of the united states is on trial. interesting when bill said a second ago the dow for if first time has broken 40,000. you have the two americas going at it. when i say this i will get jumped on by at least one of the three of you. the economy is doing well and

getting better. i know. i was asking for it. but that's what america will have to decide on. whether we want to return to a time where we had a president that is all about himself and about what has been done to him and being persecuted and grievances or a president that is trying to look forward and doing better. that will be the choice. i've been sitting here watching the trial. this entirely about donald trump. and not good for america. >> bill: rich, you are writing a piece here. you are welcome to respond to philippe if you want. >> only because he can't have mccarthy and turley on all the time. >> bill: they are in the locker room drinking water now. >> dana: getting a massage: >> bill: should the republican party be jailed in mass. judge merchan can make trump shut up but he can't fine or jail an entire political party. the better line from you. what if everyone violates the

trump gag order? his daughter is making millions doing fundraising for democrats and democrats raising money off the trump trial. i violated the trump gag order. >> in is a political case even if you don't think it is being brought for political reasons, which i do. it is part of the campaign debate. democrats are relying on and think it will hurt him if he is convicted. everyone gets to attack trump. the witnesses get to say how much they hate him but trump can't fight back. the rest of the party should fight back. this is a case basically at its core about an alleged misdemeanor that the statute of limitations ran out two years ago and you have a democratic prosecutor reacting to the left wing mob who somehow bootstrapped it up to 34 felonys and even if he is convicted. i think probably he will be no way this thing will stand up on appeal. they made him sit in a courtroom

four days a week during a presidential campaign. spend resources on it during a presidential and campaigned and might convict him. if it's overturned next year where does he get the time and resources back? >> dana: when president biden announced the debate challenge. he said something at the end. he said i hear you are free on wednesdays. immediately after that, you saw the biden-harris campaign but out an appeal to buy a t-shirt for $3. they will work on wednesdays now because of the holidays. but if biden is trying to say look, i don't have anything to do with this. it's all about trump but wants to figure out a way to dig at donald trump about this particular trial, would you have recommended that dig and that t-shirt? >> both sides raise money off the smallest things. both candidates have videos poking at the other. the most important part about it is somehow we woke up without

debates and by lunch time there were debates. that was shocking. none of us were involved. no commission. >> dana: philippe, will you play the role of donald trump in this debate prep as you did in 2020? >> i will play the role of someone who can't wait for june 27th. in 2020 someone named bob bauer played it. the reason i played it in 2016 wasn't just that i could do a good trump imitation. it was that i knew hillary like the back of my hand and how to push her buttons. i did do well. she knew -- in all seriousness she knew after each debate that he was tough. she heard his message. she knew why he was appealing. truth is, just as a completely objective matter, donald trump has debated five times in a general election and lost all five to hillary clinton and joe

biden. this notion that donald trump got what he wanted yesterday, look, let's be even about it. good deal is when both sides mutually benefit from the outcome. we can say yesterday everyone got what they wanted. they both wanted debates. no one wanted to use the commission. everybody wins. june 27th it's on. september 10th it's on. i think you guys know who i think -- >> dana: come on from time to time. >> i will come any time. love it. thank you for having me. >> bill: you get the final word. >> i thought biden realized he can't entirely skip debates. it would add to the age concerns. it shows he realizes he is behind. if he was comfortably ahead he wouldn't debate but he is not. >> bill: we'll read through this and let you know what we're learning from the stand now. thank you philippe and rich. back in a moment. ♪ jardiance! ♪

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>> bill: now up to the point of the sentencing in december of 2018. we'll go through the emails and deliver what we think is relevant. all of it is obviously, right to people like andy mccarthy and jonathan turley. welcome back, gentlemen. professor, we have not heard from you since the costello interview, i don't believe.

let's play another portion of this. we have another one queued up right now. this has to do with allen weisselberg worked for the trump team for 40 years. 76 years old. he is now serving his second sentence at ryker's island, there for another five months. whether or not weisselberg will be called as a witness or why not. >> we're presuming that allen weisselberg has any information helpful to the district attorney. if they thought he had helpful information, they would immune eyes him and bring him in to testify. the fact they haven't done one leads one to conclude maybe weisselberg doesn't have information to help him, perhaps it helps donald trump. >> bill: if you are a juror and deliberating behind closed

doors, don't you want to know why weisselberg hasn't been called? yes, i think you would. i think the assumption is more than obvious. you don't call someone like michael cohen if you have any alternative. and if you do call michael cohen, you call anyone else that you can use to support anything that he has said. the fact that they have not brought weisselberg, who is just about 15 minutes away from the courthouse, indicates that he would not support the prosecution case but presumably add support to trump's defense. the question for the jury is what do they take from this? weisselberg is becoming the kaiser of witnesses. everyone is referring to him and they will wonder why isn't he here? now, i think what you are seeing play out is them taking apart

cohen's past lies. the real question for the defense is really a matter of strategy. if you want to call costello or not. he is obviously a strong witness. he used to be deputy chief of the criminal division in the southern district. so he has got some major chops when it comes to being a lawyer. the problem i have and i tend to be risk averse as a criminal defense attorney. i know for certain in any own mind that they have not made out a case here. they haven't established the elements. i think it is dead on arrival if there is any verdict against trump. so i tend to cut when i know i can win. the problem, of course, is that could come after a conviction. you have to wait for the appeal. if you want to go for the kill in the trial, then it becomes more attractive to call costello to see if you can iron plate at least a hung jury, maybe even

secure an acquittal. the last thing i would say about this is new yorkers are a strange breed. i can tell you that just as a chicagoan. i've studied them my whole life with a great deal of confusion. i'm not just talking about folding pizza. but three a strange breed because yes, they hate donald trump, but the only thing i've noticed new yorkers hate even more is being a chump. at some point these jurors may feel they are getting played. >> dana: i think that is an interesting point and something we were talking about in the commercial break in terms of my views. who cares about mine. andy mccarthy, your thoughts. one more bit about costello on cohen refusing to cooperate against trump if you could play that. >> what he told us in 2018 was the truth. number one, as i said he was suicide all and desperately looking for a way out. the way out was clear, to cooperate against donald trump

if he had truthful information. he didn't take that way out. all day long he said i don't have anything. but i will do whatever the f i have to do, i will never spend a day in jail. here is the other thing. donald trump, when he went to washington, d.c., when he was elected, he took the whole trump inner circle to washington with one exception, michael cohen. >> dana: all right, andy. so you have the idea now planted in at least our viewers' minds, perhaps the trump defense team has heard that costello says i'm a reliable witness. would you call him? >> i would call him and this goes to john's point about the election context that we're in. i think it is cold comfort to former president trump if he wins this case by winning on appeal in 2026 or whenever that will happen. i heard your conversation with my friend, rich lowry, a few

minutes ago making the same point. that does nothing for him in the context that he is in. i think he has got to try to win the case now. costello is a very good witness, as you saw. and one thing i think people would take away from it is he is not like a potted plant for trump. he was giving cohen the kind of advice that a savvy new york defense lawyer would give to a client. and i think he would come across very well and he would be very difficult for the district attorney's office to cross-examine. >> bill: one thing do you big brains out there. andy, you can defend new yorkers if you want the way they eat pizza. you have that option. we would just say we're debating the other day in the office the sixth amendment. we look it up. >> dana: we're a barrel of laughs. >> in all criminal prosecutions

they have a right to a speedy trial and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation. now, you two gentlemen have been telling us for months that we don't know what the underlying crime is. professor, why don't we? if so, does that violate your right under the sixth amendment? >> well, i do believe that the judge has failed to protect the rights of the defendant in requiring greater clarity from the prosecution. i have never seen a case like this. i'm a criminal defense attorney. doing it for a long time. i have never seen a case where you don't have just legal experts on this network, on other networks, liberal legal experts saying, i don't know, either. people keep on referring to these false business records. that's a dead misdemeanor. that's as dead as dillinger. you can't bring that on its own.

so what bragg is doing is zapping it back into life by saying that he committed that crime to hide another crime. it is that other crime that nobody can get their head around because trump did not violate federal election law. also bragg can't prosecute federal election law. he is not a federal prosecutor. the department of justice declined to bring that action. and so you do have this weird situation where the judge has allowed the prosecutors to continually refer to election violations making it seem to that jury that trump is hiding an election violation, which is not true. >> dana: all right. gentlemen, thank you so much. we have a quick break to get in here. michael cohen on the stand. you'll get some good quick thoughts after the break. few cl.

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>> bill: they are going over

some testimony from october of last year. and they asked under oath whether or not cohen lied more than once in front of a judge. cohen agrees he did lie under oath. agrees because the stakes affected him personally. he knows what perjury means. add that one to the list, dana. >> dana: he does. what you are looking at here is outside the courtroom. several republican lawmakers who went to court today to be witnesses and bear witness afterwards in the press conference, they will be out there as soon as there is a break. that usually happens within the next 90 minutes. >> bill: that's right. we'll see -- i think john brought up a good question whether or not donald trump takes the stand. something we haven't really gotten to yet. >> dana: or if robert costello. our interview of the hour. harris faulkner takes you through the next hour. we'll see you here tomorrow. >> harris: breaking news and we'll have minute to minute coverage of the trial