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the gloves are off and there are 2 presidents, 1 current in 1 form or who say they will step into the ring to debate for the american people and their votes. it will happen this summer. the sparring seems to be well underway already though as president biden started the day with this shot at his opponent the former president. >> make my day powell will do it even toys. let's pick the date donald i hear you're free on wednesdays. >> martha: that is of course the day there is no court. likely the way thanks are going it will be wrapped up before it begins. president biden also posted, trump said he will arrange his own transportation and i will bring my plane to. i plan on keeping it for another 4 years. former president trump came at him with this. i am ready and willing to debate crooked joe at the 2 proposed

times in june and september. i would strongly recommend more than 2 debates and excitement purposes a very large venue although biden is supposedly afraid of crowds and that's only because he doesn't get them. as a reference to the biden campaign saying it will skip lots organized by the commission on presidential debates partly because they are huge spectacles with large audiences. with that let's bring in the commission's cochair branko. always good to have you and figure for joining us. you overseeing this debate for many years, since 1987 the commission has been an effect and order to bring people together. what is your reaction to how this is going and where do you think it will go from there? >> first of all we were created relieved back in 1987 to make sure that there is a mutual body arranging the debates and details. because there is tremendous

difficulty between to campaigns wherever they were to agree on thanks. at the be interesting to thank -- see how this works out with the 2 exchanges today. but we have gone ahead as we have for 33 years now preparing for debates. if they can get together and actually perform debates that are substantive and help you -- help people make decisions when they go to the polls than god bless them we -- our commission is made up of volunteers, we are not paid. we volunteer time and energy to make sure in a nonpartisan way debates are held. so we are still waiting there. there been many times over the 30 plus years when candidates have refused to bid or not debate or would change the debates or do it on different television stations and so forth and can back to us. we will see what happens. >> martha: so what is the status of your conversation with the 2 campaigns at this point about the dates you have set?

>> we really have not had any conversation which is not unusual. we normally don't have it in contact until after the nomination event. we not have candidates who have been nominated or on and off state ballots to conceivably get 270 electoral votes and meet the other requirements. is unusual wood have any contact. normally what happens after the conventions is each candidate will call us and say so and so we'll be our spokesperson will work with him or her. historically for the last 20 years ron klein has represented the democrats. the last timeout with president trump it was rudy giuliani. it's not expected we would have any contact prior to the conventions, that's when every thing starts moving. >> martha: so you saw the biden campaign statement on this, they had a few things they were not happy with in terms of the way the commission handled it. 1 is that they are too late,

post convention, they are saying at all it's to happen prior to any voting beginning because so much voting has been pushed back and also they don't like the big spectacle. you heard his comment on that. they don't want to be part of that kind of large spectacle as they say. let's look at the third 1 the commission rules they said were broken in 2020 and the commission failed to enforce the rules in terms of time each gets to respond. what do you say to them? >> with the last 1 certainly there is no question the first debate in the last cycle got totally out of hand. the rules in the debates' -- each of the 6 minutes of 90 minutes each candidate gets to speak for 2 minutes uninterrupted. that will take place. >> martha: i remember. [ laughter ] we were there. >> the last debate we made sure both candidates knew we would have a mute button and if any

candidate broke the rule we would push the button and need them. it was unnecessary, we never had to do it because both candidates in the last debate did it correctly. we don't have large healing crowds and so forth like the primary debates. you been there, there is clapping, yelling. we had tickets to go to any of our debates and say do not interruption anyway or you will be removed from the premises. so we've been fortunate that we really haven't had those interruptions. the important thing to that i'm concerned about but i don't know because i haven't talked any networks, will cnn coverage be spread out? will you get it on fox creek we'll anyone get it on cbs or abc? willow co. online? we use the white house pool so it doesn't count what's going on online, our estimates are the first debate 4 years ago

120 million people watched. will it be that weigh? will those interested get a chance to see it i don't know it's up to the networks. i'm sure they'll have to deal with that. our job was to be the mutual person in the middle and i think we've done a good job. >> martha: okay last question do you anticipate this may blow up when they really start haggling over the details and they may come back to you? >> you know, it's happened before back in the past there has been this sort of thing and they have come back. i don't know packets and usual at this point of time. the interesting thing i think -- i thank the first debate is jun. on that date only 7 states will have completed what their palette is going to include whether it will include anybody else other then a republican, democrat act maybe jill stein being with the green party. we don't know what will happen libertarian wise. it's very early, they don't have phase presidential candidates at

the time other then the white house does but the republicans want. there are many questions unanswered at this point. if they can do and god bless them they are helping the american people that is our goal to make sure the american people get these debates. if they can do it we bless them. if they can't, we will be standing around ready -- >> martha: thank you very much always good to see you frank take you for stopping by. >> thank you martha. >> martha: moments ago peter doozy updating the white house on the president's willingness to debate watch this. >> an offer from the president to debate as that you realize you need to change the subject after some bed pulling. >> we had a back-and-forth on pulling yesterday and i, you know, it just goes back to the core of what i said to you which is this is a president that has had a pretty successful legislative tenure in the first

3 and a half years and has delivered on many things. >> okay let's wring in james freeman assistant editor for wall street journal editorial page and fox news contributor. mary katherine ham and democratic strategist leslie marshall also fox news conservator. let's go down the line james let's start with you. but did you think of the answer to peter's question there? >> what is to say? it's been the bad polling for months and months and i thank the decision to debate if not a last resort its a thought they threw the prosecutions at him, they've done a lot of advertising and it just hasn't moved the needle. i think this is a possible way for him to exceed expectations which will be vary low. >> martha: let's take a look back mary catherine at some of the greatest hits of the debate in september 2020 to remind people what they are in for, all these individuals are 4 years

older at this point but let's look back. >> or would answer? >> the question is. >> radical left. >> will you shut up man? it's hard to get any word and with this clown? >> don't ever use the word smart with me don't ever use that word because you know what there's nothing smart about you. >> you're the worst president america has ever had. >> china ate you're bunch joe you cheated the black community about as bad as anybody in this country. >> everybody knows he is a liar. >> martha: all my gosh, mary catherine you're thoughts on all this debate development today? >> i hesitate after those clips to say a debate is good for the american people, but i do think in general having these 2 guys debate is good for the voters, they are tuning in and are not as change in as many of us all the time so they get a chance to do this. for me a couple days ago i didn't think this would come to fruition and i said so, it may not still, frank made good points about how they have to

hammer out the details of this before they even get to a stage but i like the fact it might be earlier boating happens earlier. i think they both phase real challenges here, i didn't find biden's many cuts in it like produced short video convincing about how he will do on a debate stage but he often over performs low expectations. trump did not do well last time around khaki is out of practice and didn't debate during the primaries. he faces challenges himself although i gets a less scary prospect for him than biden. >> martha: let's look at this from chuck todd, msnbc the up brings up third-party candidate the independent candidate rfk junior who desperately wants to be on the stage, watch this. >> i think if you ever spent a time -- a lot of time watching robert kennedy speak i think if you are joe biden you will want him up at the stage. at thank there we'll be a point in the fall they will sea that as an asset. and sort of an in the minority on this but. >> he has a vocal issue.

it's an ailment. >> i think it would really help biden look less like it any of his issues come across less -- >> martha: less, you know. [ laughter ] leslie you're thoughts? >> i honestly would like to see rfk junior just for voters and debate. but i want to go to what mary catherine said. the first thing you said i agree but after that i disagree. i predicted this would happen. i predicted that they would have a debate because this is what they get to, who is banging their chest larger then the other 1. sorry to the sound guys with the microphone. but listen when we look at a harvard is in this study, 56 televised debates, it doesn't move the needle. the undecided voters don't decide to 1 of the other and the people who love trump will not jump to biden and the people who

load biden will not jump to trump you're eye do agree with mary catherine that it does a disservice to the american people but i disagree that it is helpful to the voters because the polling stats does not err that out. for example in 2016 donald trump lost every debate to hillary clinton yet was elected president. we also saw with george bush against john kerry. it's not always who wins in these debates and i don't think it really helps the voter because it doesn't always get the issues out there. it's become really an attack on 1 another that gets out there. >> martha: at thank it's an important part of the process and i do hope there are even more than just these 2 debates. maybe they will end up going back to the presidential debate commission as they start to hammer it out. great to have all of you, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> martha: former president donald trump dropping big hands to heave hewitt about who is on

his roster because, you know, it is getting pretty close to the summer conventions. who will he pick for vp. >> does doug have it locked up? >> no but he is very good. i tell you he is very good. >> martha: kaylee on the revealing new interview and there was more from the former president will play for you after the break it's easy as 1-2-3. one: call newday and apply. two: take out an average of $70,000. three: pay off your credit cards

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i've seen the vice president list. by the way does doug brigham have us locked up? >> no but he's very good. >> but we will get a massive overhaul at dod. you know how wasteful it is, we need a waltz, pompeo, a cotton over there. i love to know who is on your list so we can assure people there we'll be reforms at dod. >> all the people you mentioned are real candidates, everybody you've mentioned, generally speaking, the people you like are the people that i like to be honest with you. you not going to see some of the clowns he have right now that i can tell you. >> martha: always interesting when the former president talks with hugh hewitt. with me now former trump white house secretary kaylee machen great to have the with this. and want to break that into 2 parts. the first part the discussion of doug brigham who is star appears to be rising although as you know better than anyone you always have to be a little bit wary of where it looks like the former president is going, it

may be ahead faking may be going somewhere else. >> maybe and doug also said in the interview he is good on energies so immediately they went to secretary may be. doug i have no doubt they have a great affinity, bareboat successful businessman. he would compliment him well and trump clearly likes and. who are you adding to the ticket create our think that something that should be at the top of the campaign's mind. someone like marco rubio know does not only is a fantastic on form policy he is learned hard lessons during the 2016 campaign. 1 thing discussed about him often is he has it 10-point on in helping women, a huge issue on the campaign. these laconic candidates i think add to the ticket and bring home suburban women latino voters and black voters that should be top of mind. >> martha: what about the floata issue? the constitution, we all sort of learned something this time around, it has a section that

says he can't vote -- from the same state. does that real him out? or is there a way around it constitutionally? >> i think he suggested he can move his residence so it's been done before. i don't think that bars him but that should be a top contender in my mind. also adding to that you can bring someone who brings to state, when you, i'm also winning virginia maybe you can get a guy who can bring from a state like virginia. there are a lot of good candidates and choices but i think he has a personal affinity with kennedy and is also 1 who brings in voters. >> martha: so he talked about cleaning up the department of defence, named pompeo, walt who has always been a favourite i think that's fair to say from florida. where you see that shaking out? people would say all they left

the administration but there appeared to be plenty lining up at the courthouse who seem to want to join. >> reporter: there are a long list to want to be in the trumpet ministration and that's just the dod. at thank someone like mike pompeo, someone who served in the administration for 4 years and did so successfully and weathered every storm with the president as secretary of state would be top of mind if he wants on at dod. tom cotton on the outside you could bring in a long list ultimately trump will decide but you've got to get past these debates and then you stack up. >> martha: exactly. we will see, thank you kaylee. always good to see you. some of those in the vp shortlist as i mentioned show up tobacco former president trump in court and the media pounced on them. watch. >> the republican party boldly and bravely rose up in spirited defence of adultery with porn stars, secretly paying off porn stars to buy their silence.

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former president donald trump back in court tomorrow 1 michael cole and we'll be on the stand likely under continued with her in cross-examination by a trump attorney todd blanche.

expect he'll continue it. boule cf another round of republican supporters show up to back him outside the courthouse as they did earlier this week. now the president's critics last of the choices and tuesday and watch this. >> they all now just like him to? they were all wearing the exact same outfit it was like they were rockettes. [ laughter ] spec the reason they were and not -- matching outfits as they were in a swimsuit competition. >> look at this. >> everyone has to just identically it's the weirdest thing. >> martha: let's bring in clay travis. you know clay each 1 of them was thinking i will go with the red tide today. i'm a republican, i will go down and support heart and you just wish 1 of their wives said to him think everyone is probably going to do that but apparently they didn't. >> reporter: martha i've got a photo shoot tomorrow for the clay and buck radio show, as sue

picked out every single thing that we're going to be wearing? ox wife and my wife, no trust whatsoever for what we would've otherwise pick. 100% i also want to give you credit for the vocabulary workshop lambasted an sartorial to lead into me and that is great double combo. but i think that's where they are at nbc that's opening segment and a need to point out that the larger context is, in this assent of desperation desperation. it ties in with biden suddenly deciding they need a debate, on june 27th by the way? never happened before. the republic convention and democratic convention because the new york city case is actually working to trump's favour. he was on the radio show yesterday and said he thinks his numbers are better now that they would have been if they had not charged in. i also saw trump, i'm not sure

if you mentioned that, trump said he wants you and brett moderating october 2nd the fox news debate. we will sea if ayden will take that but i think it's a sign of desperation from msnbc, from biden's advisors. they are losing, they are spending lots of money and it's not helping. >> martha: i want to put another bit of media take on this because a couple folks went after mike johnson for not going down there and to the courthouse. it's interesting what they are targeting here and i'm not sure it's actually the reason you see the support he is getting down there. watch this. >> johnson is a hyper- conservative biblical literalist but today he took a day out from holiness to attend his hushed trial. >> this is who mike johnson is in the hypocrisy is almost too obvious to have to mention but here's someone who has built his entire identity on his christian morality. >> martha: so, is the content

of this trial what's drying him? or is it a larger question about the judicial system? >> martha, this is not a case about whether trump did or did not have sex with a woman all the way back in 2006, even the use of the phrase hush money trial is dishonest. this is a business records case that's a typically a misdemeanour that's been elevated to a felony based on what i think is an illegitimate legal argument that this business records was used to conceal another crime. so it's a business records case. at thank the reason speaker johnson is there and everyone else frankly who has shown up is because they understand this is an old-school show trial. this is about trying to humiliate and embarrass donald trump in a way that would have never occurred if he hadn't come down that escalator in 2015 and decided to get involved in politics. i challenge anybody out there, i set it on my show for a while,

find me another 75 years or older men or woman who had never been charged with a felony and their entire life and then after the age of 75 faces 4 different jurisdiction l any charges. new york city, atlantic, south florida and washington dc in this case. i bet its never happened in american history. this is a political prosecution that's frankly growing up and joe biden's department of justice face because i think most americans exceeded for what it is, an attempt to rid the election by trying to go after donald trump for political reasons and a sham proceeding. >> martha: agreement on at least 1 part but really it will come down to 12 people and those chairs who have heard about all this. no 1 knows what they will decide. that's going to be a must-see historic momentum and we get to that. thank you clay so much i was good to see it.

>> by the way, reit i would suggest is a good moderator, 1 of the few at cnn. >> martha: we will sea who they picked. thank you and good to see you clay. >> thank you. >> martha: still had this our, alina held out previous book comes tomorrow which is the cross-examination of conan continued and that we might find out what the defence team stands to do when the prosecution rests their case.

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>> more than a billion dollars of american weapons could be headed to israel but they are not the specific weapons they had requested for rafah. it could take months or even years for the delivery to arrive. here is is really prime minister benjamin netanyahu. >> i hope it happens soon we cannot continue into the future buy having hamas retake gaza.

not only would it be h. omitted his victory for hamas it would be a tremendous victory for iran terrorist acts because they are trying to -- hamas is 1 component. >> martha: bringing to house former committee chairman texas republican chairman mccall good to have you today. explain you're take on this billion dollars in weapons, why it's being approved at this point right after we saw the pause in some of those larger bombs that were withheld. >> at the gets a political gimmick to appease all of the criticism he has received, the president, since he made the decision to put an arms embargo on israel if they go into rafah. the fact is as chairman of foreign affairs committee, i approve all foreign military weapons to sales these shipments.

congress appropriated with the intent to spend the money on weapons to go to israel, yet this president without any consultation with congress has decided to stop and withhold the shipments. now this new 1 that he has announced will probably take 2 years to get into israel and they put the condition it can't be used in rafah. why is rafah important? because it is the last piece of the military objective israel has, its for the last 4 battalions. the 4000 soldiers without going into rafah, israel cannot complete this work. so this president, president biden is stopping this from happening. >> martha: i want to play this soundbite from the deputy secretary of state kurt campbell, in terms of what it might reflect about the white house's view on what finishing the job looks like. watch... >> we are struggling over what

the theory of victory is. at thank sometimes when we listen closely to israeli leaders they talk about mostly the idea of some sort of sweeping victory on the battlefield, total victory. i don't think we believe that is likely or possible. >> martha: so is that an indication the white house does not believe that eradicating hamas, which was the original goal after october 7th and which we supported, is actually feasible? or will happen, can happen? >> it's a goal of benjamin netanyahu, i've spoken with him. his goal is to eradicate hamas. it's not like some ragtag team of terrorists, these are literally like military to military operation and military battalions, 4000 of them, they've eradicated 19 already. 4 remaining in rafah and he's going to do it with the order

without us martha. at the can's best the united states as we normally have done in the past support the best ally we have in the middle east which is israel, to help them complete the last phase of the military operation so we can get to the next phase which would be this peaceful resolution. the talks between saudi, israel and arab nations. >> martha: yes. we would be where we are if it weren't for october 7th and hamas and the whole they have on the people of gaza. we will see where it goes. thank you chairman mccall good to see you. so the former president donald trump attorney alina on what the defence has in store because were almost at the point where we will hear the defence side. will they bring witnesses or will they rest their case and ascended to the jury equally cursed they have to finish with michael cohen. >> the other day donald once again comes out, you know, comes out of the courtroom and goes

right into the little cage which is where he belongs a [ bleep ] cage like an animal

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so the prosecution could rest tomorrow in former president donald trump's criminal trial. the defence said it's communicated with a potential rebuttal witness. robert costello is an attorney who once advised michael cohen who reportedly says trump lawyers have contacted him. today costello testified before house committee about weapon icing the rule of law. he said this while he was there about michael cohen, watch.

>> he said i didn't want to bare as her that's why i decided to take care of this on my own, went back to that several times. you did this on your own, on my own peer to donald trump have anything to do with it? no. >> martha: what that we bring an trump attorney hubba who has attended court but is not representing the former president in this case. great to have you back thank you for joining us. it's interesting because costello also said cohen explained the reason he negotiated the sum of $130,000 per the nda when asked if trump had any knowledge of this cohen told him no. you're thoughts on costello and do you believe he will be called by the defence as soon as tomorrow potentially? >> tomorrow i think we'll be the cross-examination continued by the defensive michael cohen we've just begun that portion of

the case. my understanding from the prosecution is that this will be their last witness and arrest their case. it's very clear they haven't proven any at the elements of the alleged crime which were not even sure it is but there is absolutely no intent for any interference and an election other than what i've seen currently with the biden demonstration. costello's testimony today is interesting, is not inconsistent with thanks he said before. i think he is an attorney khaki obviously has inside knowledge. we will see what the defence team handling the case chooses to do. whether i knew or not you know me better than to thank i would say so our national television that we will have this term at this ridiculous trial and get the president out campaigning like you should be. >> martha: i thought it was interesting todd blanche came out and his first questioning was about himself, todd blanche

the attorney he said my name is todd blanche you and i have never spoken before happily and cohen cohen said we have not but he said you know who i am doing and he said i do. on april 23rd after the trial started in this case you went and called me a crying little [ bleep ] didn't you? and he said sounds like something i would say. what was that about? what was he trying to say there? >> i can't speak about the witness obviously at this point obviously i would love to i assure you but might excite kind of restraint there. todd is a great lawyer. i think he is using and will use anything that we have as evidence of any bias. the end. i think that is important and i think there is another point

here martha, we have a dual justice system where they gag order applies to 1 side, us and only us. there has been no gag order put on their side, they've been free to speak. the prosecution and witnesses. i can't see how that point could possibly be lost on americans in an election season 6 months prior to an election. it so uncanny. it's so unjust. at thank all those thanks are being relayed. i hope the american people are listening in and understand that everything is done strategically or it's a great team we have here and i have little doubt we will prevail at the end. >> there are 2 audiences as you point out, political american audience watching all of this and then there are the 12 people on the jury and we only know a few things about their professions et cetera. credit thought it was interesting at cnn this is the legal correspondent there

talking about the cross-examination. and want you to hear what he said. >> this should be a bonanza for cross-examination with 3 former federal prosecutors here. what would you do if you found out the eve of a big trial your star witnesses selling t-shirts showing, you have to thank about heart about dismissing the case, it's a major flaw and the defence. laughing about a defendant going to jail i think is offensive to the jury, that's not for michael cohen to say. >> martha: we have a picture of 1 of these teachers. i know you have to be careful with anything in regard to the current witness is being cross-examined but in terms of the legal theory behind that, do you think that if a witness is selling merchandise against the person who is the defendant in a general sense, a lay not, what a judge pined for a mistrial in that case and you think marchant i know you don't think he toshi

is been open but do you think you might? >> will continue to move for that. do i think any activity like that generally is advisable by witness let alone key witness? no. if i was the prosecution and working for the dar would definitely try and stop that. again when you're trying any case you want to prevent bias and prevent any appearance that anybody on your case and being witnesses or attorneys frankly show bias. what we've consistently seen is a judge who has clear historical biases for thanks they can't discuss but the press has reported, for prosecutors and da's with political motivations and political funding by serious democrat donors and all those thanks are supposed to be left

outside the court for an important reason. first of all it weakens their case, it frankly does. number 2 it gives the appearance of impropriety that's what is in fact happening so i'm not surprised by any of this peer review know we are in good shape when you know cnn and and resend you say have to start admitting there is no case here. the reality of the situation is the democrats have focused on political opera they're strengthening president trump who was already strong and leading. there just helping out because with all these witchhunts and all of this nonsense. i truly believe the american people are sick of it. acting seeing all the breeds lined up i don't know if you'd been in the courtroom but the amount of police power in the city that's fallen apart it's so sad and such a disgrace. >> martha: it's a real education in what's going on down there so we will sea how

long the cross continues with michael cohen tomorrow and we will watch. thank you elena always good to see you. >> thank you. >> martha: what may come back an exclusive preview of our project i'm really proud of and i think you're going to feel strongly about as well, it's the new season of the final journey on fox nation featuring living heroes of america's greatest generation ackley got their story firsthand and we want to share it with you. >> it must have been something to see it yourself. >> my sister and i were ready to go to church and heardi couldn'. i am thinking to myself why are they doing this? and then when i got to pearl

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>> martha: okay, before we go, a look at my new fox nation special, the final journey of

the greatest generation, which drops today. i was honored to speak with world war ii heroes who still have vivid memories of going into battle. >> my name is bill wright and i was a private first class. i was born august the 20th, 1923, in muscatine, iowa. it was prepared to go in and fight. >> martha: now 100 years old, then 21-year-old army rifleman bill remembers being part of the land invasion force. >> as we went in, i never had an idea how terrible it could have been. we were in very heavy combat. we got on our march. it was very, very crowded. and when we got close to the

shore, they drop the gates. we all hit the water. and a lot of us just almost drowned before we jumped off that boat. but we made it and made it to shore. >> martha: and it was an honor to meet them. they are living treasures of american history, and open with the final journey of the greatest generation" is available now on fox nation so i really hope that you will go in there and watch this series, it is extraordinary. we have the pacific and europe available to you now. just wonderful story. that is "the story" for wednesday, great happy with us, as always, "the story" goes on tomorrow, see you back here at 3:00. stay tuned for "your world" which starts right about now. ♪ ♪