>> john: we are awaiting an update from john kirby at the white house after hamas claims they have agreed to conditions of a cease-fire that were negotiated by qatar and egypt. israel says that the proposal is not acceptable calling it a ruse to make israel look like the side that is dragging its feet. i am john roberts as we kick off our number two. >> gillian: thank you for having. i am gillian turner in for sandra. this is the second hour of america reports.

where does the white house stand this hour and is the biden administration going to push our closest middle east ally into brokering some kind of a deal? let's bring in brent souther. he joins us with his thoughts on the current breaking news. >> you had a guest on earlier that is calling that's what it is. it's a ruse. it's a gamble by hamas right now to buy for more time into set up for political circumstance. no matter what happens, israel goes in or israel delays, they still make israel look like the aggressor in this case. anything is further from the truth. it is only delaying the inevitable destruction of hamas. >> john: we had senator john cotton on and he looked back at the world war ii experience. there is unconditional surrender by germany. unconditional surrender by japan. why isn't president biden calling for an unconditional surrender by hamas and a release of all the hostages? end of the war right then and

work together with the arab nations on putting the pieces back together again because as long as hamas is there, israel is not going to stop. >> a couple of interesting points on this. behind all of the atrocities of october 7th, it's really a hand of iran that's been behind this. and iran's efforts the last few months have rallied arab countries to start to support israel in the exchange of missiles between the two country's, israel and iran recently. there's an opportunity here for a new awakening in the middle east that is favorable for israel. iran wants nothing of the kind so getting at that is really important. that's trying to find lasting peace and that's what we should be after. the sooner hamas is destroyed and out of gaza, the more likely that becomes. >> gillian: and perversely, regimes like iran and china are not just offering support to hamas as allies in the region, they are offering support to the

people that are promoting their interests here at home. they are publicly throwing support behind the student protesters were calling for death israel. >> for students that are being expelled, that's the best place for them to go with ideology unless they wake up. the administration right now finds himself in a situation where they are relying on an unsavory electric that is aligned with hamas and they can't seem to get out of their own way and support what is right and that is the end of this war. israel is an ally and has a lot of american interests on our side to see that they end up being victorious. >> let me go back to the point you were making earlier about around. they want to keep the instability going and gaza. what happened a few weeks ago prove that iran literally cannot lay a glove on israel despite how much it throws at them. i still don't understand why the buying administration isn't saying they are a toothless tiger.

let's help israel get rid of hamas and then we will rebuild the west bank and gaza to the best of their abilities to see if there can be some sort of peaceful coexistence between them. speak out that's the nightmare scenario that is playing out right now and that is that the proxy is starting to fill up or go their separate ways because the longer that this goes on, the weaker hand is in places like yemen and in southern lebanon. iran is starting to see and may be behind some of the recent hamas looking for a way out but unfortunately as long as there is protests and the perception that the american leadership is weak, i don't see any quick solution. >> gillian: i asked senator cotton a question last hour that i want to circle back to with you. that is hamas aside for a moment here. is there a way that the biden administration and the israelis

can, working together, strategically on the ground move forward with this ground invasion and rafa that the israelis say is absolutely necessary and also do something to try and protect the 600,000 children that are there reportedly from getting spun into that scared more of them getting injured or killed. obviously without ceding ground to hamas. speak of the unfortunate thing is this is a highly concentrated population in rafah and gaza at large. there is not going to be any antiseptic or clear and easy solution for this. it's going to be bloody, that's been known since the beginning since hamas launched the atrocities on october 7th. and everything in between is just drawing out suffering. what israel has been doing, it seems to be maybe trying to mitigate some of the human suffering that will come and that is setting out camps to the east of rafa and trying to get the palestinians out of there in a controlled manner but again,

you have one and half million that are supposedly still there and you only have room for 100,000 or so right now that are being asked to leave. it's still a very large problem and a lot of bloodshed is still very likely but again, the longer this goes on, the suffering is prolonged longer and it makes it less likely that lasting peace is achieved. >> john: there is a tiny sliver of land between rafah and israel into gaza. let's not forget at the same time as we wrap is that hamas is feeling a lot of pressure because qatar said if you don't get to a cease-fire, you have to leave. they want jordan in hand and jordan said forget it we are taking you in. they are feeling the pressure. thank you. we appreciate it. let's go back to jacqui heinrich at the white house. state department has said nothing about the deal. what do you get from the white house? >> nothing. we have been trying for over an hour now to get something on the record. broadly, i have spoken with several officials and they are hesitant to say anything on the

record because right now they are really working with israel to figure out what hamas is agreeing to, if it is aligned with the kinds of parameters that the u.s. has put out there for a cease-fire proposal which has to include release of hostages and more aid. it sounds like from the state department briefing one of the sticking points could potentially be hamas' desire to have israel not have a presence at all in gaza and from the statements they have been putting out, it sounds like hamas has said we will agree if you continue to let us live on and let hamas continue to survive and exist and the u.s. has put forward, even though we have opposed publicly israel's plans for a full scale operation in rafah without mass evacuation and things that we've heard before, you heard matthew miller interestingly enough say that the u.s. has proposed a more limited operation and israel has the backing of the u.s. to go forward with that and not

hearkens back to what the president's first reaction was after october 7th which was if this was happening to the u.s. we would respond swiftly and decisively and we would eradicate the threat and hamas cannot continue to exist. there won't be a two-state solution that involves hamas serving any political party so that may be what we are watching playing out. hamas agreeing to something that really does not have the backing of the u.s. or israel and is not one of the proposals that has been endorsed. we will wait in here in the white house briefing what they are able to say. i would expect it will be largely in line with what we heard at the state department because they said they are working right now with partners to understand whether this is acceptable in any way. you had bill burns in the region trying to break this impasse that has happened over the past couple of days and you notice that this morning, the president

and netanyahu had a 30 minute phone call and the hesitation from anyone in the u.s. government to comment on the statement when it first came out as a very good indication that the u.s. believed nothing was imminent. we will find out more hoarsely shortly. >> gillian: this is julia. have you heard anything since thursday, friday when we first learned that the biden administration was considering ringing palestinians, potentially thousands of them from gaza to the united states as refugees. any updates or more information you are gleaning from your sources? >> nothing yet but we know that any deal to bring palestinians to the u.s. would be complicated because it would require cooperation from egypt. egypt has not until now been eager to take in any refugees and it would also require that the u.s. deem those palestinian refugees are fleeing persecution which would put the u.s. in a very difficult spot because we would have to say and some

official capacity that israel is persecuting palestinians which something that the u.s. has not said. it has not bought into the idea that israel is conducting a. they are conducting a military operation to eradicate a terrorist organization that killed more than 1,000 civilians and broke a lasting cease-fire that was in existence up until october 7th. that would be a very tough pill to swallow but obviously there is a struggle and the invited men to administration when you see the public reaction especially within the president a spirited pressure on him to do more for the palestinians in gaza and to curtail some of the support that the u.s. has given israel until now. we will see what happens. >> john: we are looking forward to the white house briefing with john kirby coming up. we will let you get inside for that. thank you. >> gillian: hamas now says it has agreed to a cease-fire deal. we are waiting for reaction from the biden administration as

jackie just mentioned. hamas also as of now not confirming they actually agreed to any of the terms in the proposed cease-fire deal. >> gillian: stomach spewing testimony about to resume in 5 minutes time. the judge threatening the former president with jail time. our legal panel all of next on the latest developments. >> there is no smoking gun here and the most important thing to remember aside the fact that the president is presumed innocent is that the prosecution has cobbled this case together with duct tape.bigg hidden fees, surcharges... who knows what to expect! turn shipping to your advantage. keep it simple...with clear, upfront pricing. with usps ground advantage®. ♪

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business. it's not a nine-to-five proposition. it's all day and into the night. it's all the things that keep this world turning. the go-tos that keep us going. the places we cheer. and check in. they all choose the advanced network solutions and round the clock partnership from comcast business. see why comcast business powers more small businesses than anyone else. get started for $49.99 a month plus ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. don't wait- call today. >> john: fo former president trump's criminal trial set to resume any minute now in new york city. we expect the defense asked to

continue cross-examination of the onetime controller jeff mcconney. the judge ruled that trump violated his gag order for a tenth time now and threaten to throw the former president in the slammer if that continues. nate foley is live at the new york supreme court in new york city. if you wanted to add 5-10 points to the president's popularity, go ahead and throw him in jail. >> you can bet a lot of people will feel that way, john. former president trump has complained about the gag order while walking into court today. he just walked in for the afternoon session and did not speak to reporters. it remains to be seen who will be the next witness on the stand after jeff mcconney, the former controller that you mention who testified this morning. he took questions from both former president trump's lawyers as well as the prosecution and he detailed payments to michael cohen including from president trump's personal account. he said the signed checks to the white house but it did not show

that trump was aware of any scheme to reimburse them for payments to stormy daniels. he maintained that he thought the payments were legitimate legal expenses. he testified he never spoke to trump about the michael cohen payments. he didn't know what they were for. during the cross-examination he said negative stories about trump were bad to for business which provides another possible motivation for trump that is unrelated to politics. it comes after hope hicks testified on friday that trump was very much concerned about his family rather than his campaign. as you mentioned before the break, judge one for sean threatened trump with jail time if he continues to violate the gag order. merchan held him in contempt of comment that he previously made about the jury. he find another $1,000 for that but he said it's clear fines are not working and he will consider jail time in the future. judge merchan said the magnitude of that decision is not lost on me.

again, former president trump just walked back into the courtroom. the afternoon session should be beginning momentarily. back to you john. >> john: thank you. jillian. >> gillian: for more on the trial, let's bring in attorneys mike i clark, jonna spilbor, and leo terrel. thank you for being with us. let's get the reaction for the headline news of the day which is judge merchan's threat to throw trump in jail. >> yet another one. i'm feeling like this is watching groundhog day because every day that the trial resumes we have a witness that gets trotted up who testifies to nothing that has to do with any sort of crime. we have somebody within the d.a.'s office scouring the internet for any tiny violation of this nebulous unconstitutional gag order and then we have judge merchan channeling his inner napoleon complex to threaten the former president with more jail time for violating the

unconstitutional gag order when what he should be doing, this judge, is taking a cue from all of the legal pundits and perhaps people in his own world to modify this gag order while the trial continues because it is unconstitutional and at some point once this trial ends, those chickens are going to come home to roost and this will come back to bite this judge. >> john: in terms of chickens roosting, leo i would expect if judge merchan were to make good on this threat and throw trump in jail, he would probably take in $15 million in campaigns funds overnight and it would be the worst thing that could ever happen to president biden. >> you are absolutely right. he mentioned he would go up seven or eight points in the polls. i disagree with you with 15 million. it's more like 50 million if he throws trump in jail. trump will turn this into a fund-raising bonanza. but you look at what happened today. today the prosecution took a step backward. you put on a case to try to

convince the jury that there is a case. this witness is it denying any existence between president trump and any connections to any misconduct. he has no knowledge. what does the prosecution accomplish today? zero. this case is a loser and i will tell you right now sooner or later they will have to bring in michael cohen to the witness stand and i can tell you right now that the trump defense team knows everything about him. expect michael cohen to be on that stand for three to four days. >> gillian: till leo's point. i want to pick up on something and if i sound ignorant, correct me. when the prosecution here makes the case that trump falsified documents, official documents in order to interfere in the election, do the two go hand in glove? do they -- does the prosecution need to prove that his

motivation, his intent was centered on interfering in the election or was that icing on the top? is his motivation secondary? >> that is a wonderful question and it will all come down to the jury instructions which enough people are not talking about. if it's a murder case or a rape case, there are instructions that the jurors must follow and know precisely what it is that is required. this case has never been brought and it's unbelievable. you don't have standard jury instructions for you will have both sides saying this is what i propose, this is what i propose. it's going to come down to the wording. was it merely a consideration that he paid stormy daniels because of the election or is it something that i believe must be proven and that is the primary

or exclusive reason why he paid her off and not something that they cannot prove because as you suggested there's a myriad of other reasonable hypotheses of innocence like protecting your family and protecting your brand. >> john: they will go further down the road with the next witness for the next witness as deborah tarasov. she was the accounts payable supervisor. the jury is not back in the room yet. they are still arguing over the exhibits but she will be brought and very soon and we will go further down the road of forensic accounting and there's nothing more interesting than that. when we are looking ahead, we talked about michael cohen. this is all set up so that he comes in and he is supposed to deliver the knockout blow and put trump, i don't know if you will be behind bars or huge fine or whatever the prosecution is looking for. but listen to what hope hicks said about michael cohen on friday. the defense questioning hope hicks. he went rogue at times. fair to say question rick hope

hicks, yesterday she goes on to say i used to say he liked to call himself a fixer or mr. fix-it and it was only because he first broke it that he was then able to fix it. by the time that he makes it to the stand, he is going to be painted as an incompetent, a liar, a ne'er-do-well. how does the jury believe a thing that comes out of his mouth? >> they probably won't and that's why the prosecution is saving the worst for last and that is michael cohen. i submit that there is nothing that man is going to be able to say that will amount to or allow the jury to find that donald trump committed a crime. look at all the evidence thus far. you cannot build a criminal case, you cannot get a guilty verdict when all of the pieces of the puzzle, all of the elements that have been charged are not criminal. nothing has changed that and he's going to have to tell a tall tale which won't be

believed because of his reputation in order to give the jury pause. there is no crime here. and therefore the star witness is not going to be a shining star at all. >> gillian: i want to circle back to you for second. judge merchan's warnings or threat or whatever you want to call it. again, to trump on violating the gag order and insisting he will throw him in jail if he deems it necessary. what would that move due to the court? what with the jury likely make of the development like that? >> it would be something that they should not know about. it has nothing to do with the underlying case itself and whether the prosecution can prove their case. it is something very separate and i would hope that the jurors don't find out about it and what

he is doing reminds me of when my kids were younger. first you put them in time out and if that doesn't work, you need to up the ante. you need to take their cell phone away, they won't go out this weekend. that's what the judges threatening. he doesn't want to do it. that's what he says. he doesn't want to do it. prosecution, they don't want him to go to jail either. it won't be good for them and it will delay the case. >> john: lets put a button on this with leo. looking ahead to the testimony here. kerri kupec notes that the defense will likely try to make a case that she or her subordinate labeled the michael cohen payments as legal expenses or retainer, all of which happened without the knowledge of trump. if they make that case, that would seem to be another bullet in the prosecution's case. >> 100% correct john. that will be the first question out of the mouth of trump attorney. did donald trump have any involvement in the preparation of these documents?

she's going to say no and it will negate the prosecution direct examination. and can i make one point regarding michael cohen. of the thousands of questions that the defense will ask him, when he raises his hand and says you promised to tell the truth and the whole truth and nothing but the truth? trump's team is going to see how may times have you done that in light? there is no case. it's going to be over as soon asthma cook one gets on the witness stand but this witness is going to be a zero gain for the prosecution. >> gillian: leo, jonah, mark, thank you for taking the time. >> john: as a trump trial resumes, we are keeping an eye on the white house briefing with john kirby and karine jean-pierre. it is set to begin at some point this afternoon. today. maybe this week. we expect news on the cease-fire talks in gaza following the president's phone call with benjamin netanyahu. kayleigh mcenany has a few thoughts about that spirit sher joins is coming up next.

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i know everyone is curious about what is in the response and with the israeli reaction to it is. we will get ahead of the process. we want to get the hostages out and we want to get a cease-fire in place for six weeks. we want to increase planetary and assistance on the last thing i want to do is say anything at this podium that will put that process at risk. regardless as we said before we believe that reaching an agreement is the absolute best outcome paired not only for the hostages but for the palestinian people. we will not stop working for that outcome. as you know the president talked with prime minister netanyahu this morning and the call lasted 30 minutes and it was constructed. the president reaffirmed his message on holocaust remembrance day. the two leaders discussed the commitment of israel and united states and remembering the 6 million who were slaughtered in the holocaust. and any acts against anti-semitism and all hate fueled violence appeared of course the two leaders spoke about our efforts to secure the

deal including these ongoing talks today. during the call at the president's urging, benjamin netanyahu agreed to ensure that the cross on his back open for humanitarian assistance for those in need. i would like to address the reports out of rafah which was also a topic of discussion on the call. i would like to reiterate that we cannot and will not of operations but we have made clear our views about operations and rafah that could put more than 1 million innocent people at greater risk. during this call with prime minister netanyahu, the president made this clear. he also made clear that we continue to believe that the hostage deal is the best way to avoid that sort of an outcome. while securing the release of those hostages and as i said those conversations continual. one more thing. president biden posted his majesty the king of jordan at the white house and that probably wrapped up here recently. they discussed a strong

partnership between the united states in jordan and they spoke about the situation in gaza of course in securing the hostage deal and getting more humanitarian existence in gaza and we'll have have a more detailed readout of that conversation very soon. just don't have it right now we will be seeing it shortly. >> as far as you can tell, which proposal did hamas accept? >> i won't get into that. >> how long will the cease-fire last? >> you are asking me for the parameters around the response of the deal itself and i'm just not going to do that. >> israel has called on people in rafah to evacuate. does that predate the full-scale assault question work >> i won't speak on a variety of operations or any military intentions and plans where they should be the r those questions. what i can only reiterate is we have been consistent in their president was consistent again

this morning that we don't support ground operations in rafah. that would put the majority or e civilians there at rest. we want to see their safety and security allowed for. >> noting your caveat at the top, are you able to say whether hamas was agreeing to something that hadn't been discussed over the last several days question work >> without getting into the details of it, and director burns is still talking to partners about this. there have been ongoing negotiations and talks here. for weeks. the director traveled recently to see if we can bring this thing home. again, without speaking about the details of the response by hamas, it is safe to conclude that response came as a result over at the end of these continue discussions that director burns was part of. >> do we have a sense of what is happening question work when will you get a readout early

today, early tomorrow? >> the president has been briefed on the response. he's aware of where the situation and where the process is. what you're asking me is when will we get a final table slap here. there is a process that has been worked in the past and it will be worked this time. you will get a response by hamas and we have to evaluate that and we see what's in it. certainly the israelis must have a chance to look at this and evaluate it and it director burns is as we speak literally as you and i are talking is having this conversation with partners in the region. i know that we would all like to have an answer as soon as possible but i don't want to get ahead of the process. >> when we expect the crossing to reopen? >> it should be open very soon. prime minister netanyahu committed to opening it on the call this morning so at 2:30 is

an open? i don't know but he assured the president it would be reopened. it had been closed for several days. >> one more. a director of a food program said that northern gaza is in a full-fledged famine. >> the u.n. has not declared a famine in gaza at large but i don't want to understate the degree of need here and the dire situation that so many sit bill in gaza are in especially with regard to food and water. it's not a great situation which is why we're working so hard to get this deal in place that we can keep the humanitarian assistance up at a higher level. >> i know you don't want to get into specifics but is that you are understanding that this is hamas' final offer? is there room to negotiate? >> it will depend on our evaluation on the israelis evaluation of the response and where we go from here. >> they are warning people to evacuate gaza. if they do go through with the operation, is the u.s. willing

to consider putting limits on israel? >> i won't get ahead of where we are in the process here. i'm certainly not going to speak to hypothetical operations that have not happened yet. we just have to see what transpires. the president was very direct and consistently so this mor morning. we don't want to see major ground operations in rafah that put these people at greater risk. >> a month ago the administration made clear that the u.s. would change its approach. if they did not take steps to address the humanitarian crisis. does that still hold? is it possible that the u.s. could change course if the humanitarian crisis has not worked on? >> we always have the right to adjust our policies as appropriate and that has not changed. >> in operation in rafah would jeopardize the steps to him humanitarian. >> we've been very direct and very consistent in our concerns and operations in rafah. >> does the u.s. currently have any sense of whether or not

israel is inclined or not inclined to accept the deal question work >> i will not speak for the israelis. >> the president and the prime minister spoke earlier today. it was this specific framework discussed and it did the president encourage or pressure the prime minister to accept this? >> you are talking about what hamas says they responded to? just so you have the tiktok here when they were talking this morning, we did not have news that hamas had responded. that news broke after the call. that said, as i mentioned in my opening statement of course they talked about the hostage deal and the importance of getting it secure. >> you are saying when the two leaders spoke, hamas had not yet or the president had not asked the prime minister. >> we were free to conclude that the call this morning was about having the israelis except the hamas response. the hamas response had not happened yet. >> did you broadly encourage the

prime minister to get a "yes" on some sort of deal? >> as he has consistently with prime minister netanyahu urging that we get this deal secured. it wasn't a pressure call. it wasn't about twisting his call around a certain set of parameters. he's having this conversation with the israelis, qatari's, egyptians as we speak. that is the forum for working out the parameters. the president clearly talked about the importance of getting a deal done. >> john: we will jump out of the white house press briefing there because not much is coming out in terms of details. let's bring in a former white house secretary kaylene act 90. i guess that they are probably prudently staying quiet about this not wanting to derail it but there's a real question if this is a viable deal at all or whether hamas is trying to play a p.r. game and make it look like it is the israelis who are the intransigent party?

>> and that is what israel claims and that's very likely the case. very fair of the white house to say i'm not going to get ahead of this. there are ongoing negotiations. you heard him say director burns at this moment as talking and hashing out details. that's all fair. but the policy coming out of the administration of what we don't want to see israel go into rafah, we think the way forward is a deal where hostages are released and this procession into rafah. that is saying to america's greatest ally in the middle east just sit back and wait for the next october 7th because that is what hamas would do. we know how they work. the policy coming out of that briefing is a very erroneous one. however being safe on the details of the diplomatic discussions, that is entirely fair. >> gillian: last week, i want to make sure i get the order of this right based on my recent memory. we learned that another hostage

died while in hamas captivity. we don't know exactly when. then hamas turned down a cease-fire agreement on the table. over the weekend, hamas killed four idf soldiers inside a humanitarian zone and miraculously with maybe an early christmas in july gift they announced to the world that they have agreed to the terms of a cease-fire. how can you turn that down? >> exactly. the timeline speaks for itself. as israel is saying, evacuate rafah because we are on the precipice of an invasion and then all of a sudden they miraculously agree to the cease-fire of which we don't know what the terms were or are or if there was and he discussion there. as we were listening to that, and john i'm sure you would agree with me here. where were the questions about the aid that was halted?

this huge axios report. we've been talking about it for more than 24 hours and the line at the bottom is the white house has declined to comment as to why this ammunition was halted. hopefully the reporters get there. that's a huge outstanding question after the cease-fire. if you are not getting anywhere they are, move to the next topic because that's a big one. >> john: no wonder hamas is feeling emboldened because you have the report over the weekend that biden was withholding the shipment of weapons pier you have bernie sanders saying they can't go into rafah, you need to do everything you possibly can to stop this. rafah is looking at this and saying we have a lot of support from the united states. why would we not push israel to adopt a cease-fire that's in our best interest but not there is good but here's a question that's always dog me. this white house seems to be pressing for a cease-fire deal in exchange for hostages and to your point, then what. if hamas is left with its former grades in rafah, october 7th will happen again at some point in the future. we brought this up with brent

sadler. iran has been made to look like a toothless tiger. 99% if it gets shot down. israel and the u.s. it would seem to me are in a better position than ever to demand an unconditional surrender by hamas and then get to some sort of political solution for the way forward. >> but you need resolve in the white house peer you need a very clear foreign policy doctrine. absolute resolve behind the ally israel but to your point what they are asking is release the hostages which israel says they are about 130. they presume that a quarter of them are not even alive anymore which is tragic to think about. but you leave hamas leadership in place in the tunnels of rafa and you leave the infrastructure in place so that all of a sudden a run of the proxies can flood weapons back to hamas so october 7th happens again. i fear what is happening here is domestic politics is entering

what should be sacrosanct realm of foreign policy. they have two appease the left democratic party and that's why we are hearing about palestinian refugees. it's why there is a tepid equivocation on our support for israel and unfortunately i'm only left to conclude that domestic politics is at play where it should not beat. >> john: kaylee, thank you for hanging out with us. we appreciate it and we will see you tomorrow on outnumbered. >> thank you both. >> gillian: will go back to john kirby's briefing at the white house. >> i would say, i don't want to get a head of operations. i don't want to speak for the israeli military. i can just say that we don't want to see operations in and around rafah that make it harder for people that are seeking refuge and shelter to be safe and secure. we have made that case privately to the israelis, the president said it today.

we've made it publicly and we been consistent about that. >> noting anything you have said and the concerns express by the u.s. about the risk to palestinians in gaza with a full scale operation, is the u.s. still aligned with israel in its intention to eliminate the terrorist threat posed by hamas? >> of course. >> is there any feeling that hamas may be trying to trick the public in some way question argue hurt israeli officials commenting on this latest proposal as a trick. there's been a lot of pressure. >> no. sorry. i'm listening. >> there's been pressure on the administration to make sure that the needs of palestinians are being served and the u.s.

support for israel is not overhand it. and you had the report come out earlier today or yesterday at the u.s. was potentially withholding and arm shipment to israel. is there any concern that hamas was trying to capitalize on that public pressure and play a trick as officials put it? >> i don't think there's any possible way i can answer that unless i got between the ears of misters and learn that's not a place i'd want to be. that's a great question for him. i can stay and appear answer questions. the colleagues, the president do. pride and ministered that yahoo does. you know who hasn't answered a single question about his intentions and what games he may be playing or where he intends to take this? the head of hamas. and i think it is time that he answers some of these questions and he comes clean on what his

intentions are. i don't know. all that i know is we have a response. bill burns is looking at that. he's talking to the israelis about it and we will see where it goes. hopefully, hopefully whatever is in this thing, hopefully it can lead to the hostages getting out really soon. as each day passes, their lives get further at risk. >> is it still a good idea to negotiate with terrorists? >> it's not like we sit down pie-in-the-sky and say today's a good day. let's negotiate with terrorists. you need to negotiate to get people back with their families. if there's a better idea to get those hostages home with their families, we would love to hear it. you need to negotiate through qatar with hamas to get those folks back with their families and that's the hard work of diplomacy.

sometimes it means you have to center across the table from very bad folks that you would rather not talk to but they have hostages and we want them back. you've course back the right and responsibility to go after the hamas threat and eliminate the threat. i've said many times here you won't eliminate an ideology through military operations but there is a right and responsibility to eliminate the threat that they have suffered on the 7th of october. 100%. we've been nothing but steadfast on that. >> thank you john. speaking about a tiktok. >> gillian: that's john kirby speaking to the press corps in the white house briefing room. just after we learned that hamas claims to have accepted a cease-fire deal put on the table by the united states and the israelis through negotiators in qatar. no word about the guidance response and he declined to provide when.

>> john: sources out of israel say that this deal is unacceptable to israel. more to chew over and we will be be break. stay with ustter. these two ever. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. feeling claritin clear is like... ♪ [cat meow] —is she? letting her imagination run wild even though she has allergies. yeah. isolated...depressed... and embarrassed. that's how it felt to live with bladder and bowel incontinence. but that changed when my urologist told me about axonics therapy. a long-lasting solution that has really changed my life. this is not another drug, and it works. visit findrealrelief.com to arrange an appointment with an expert physician to determine if axonics therapy is right for you.

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>> john: we are continuing to monitor the white house briefing and see if anything more comes out of it but the white house is pretty firm about not making any comments about the alleged deal

that hamas has agreed to for a cease-fire. let's bring in a former pentagon official and heritage foundation official brent sattler. something that john kirby said stuck in my head and he said we back israel and its campaign to eliminate hamas but if you get to a cease-fire in exchange for hostages, nobody will ever back israel to go back into rafah to complete the operation. if there is a cease-fire now and all of the hostages come out, it's done. >> the administration from october 8th on has never wanted to go the next step and that is to put anything meaningful behind the destruction of hamas. they stop at that. every proposal even the most recent one holding ammunition deliveries, it all augers back to an in-state where there is some remnant of hamas left. despite what the rhetoric is coming out of the white house. >> gillian: the crux of this is always the hostages and getting the hostages released. thus the priority.

secretary of state, the president, secretary of defense. what is to prevent everybody striking the israelis and i guess hamas striking a deal and then hamas, who at no point has confirmed the number of hostages, not confirmed the number who is alive or dead coming forward and saying actually we were wrong. 128 of the 132 hostages are actually dead. and the whole thing is worth nothing. >> that's a big question. how many hostages are still there and still alive and hamas is not forthright on that at all. they have a very weak hand on this and frankly we haven't put enough pressure to get the release of the hostages and unfortunately because of the nature of the deal there and that with the fighting would unt that adequate pressure on is through direct military arms at this stage. >> john: kirby said in the referring that you cannot eliminate an ideology which if

you look at the fight against isis is true for the most part. you can degrade them militarily so they are no longer trying to establish in syria and iraq. that could be applied to nazism as well so you'd dismantle the military capability and then they become small pockets of unrest in whites or premises them elsewhere but for the most part it's gone. you can do that with hamas if you were to take away the capabilities and leadership and then take steps to stop iran from resupplying them. >> that's the key you think. if iran is able to reconnect through irg see, then we are right back to where we are on october 6th. it's a never ending cycle. iran is supporter that needs to be severed from the proxies. military power and the

destruction of an adversary goes a long way to ending the ideology that fuels them. nazism is almost dead because of complete adjuvant defeat. the same thing happened in imperial japan as well. the ideologies that spooked the word fear and hatred have evaporated and we've had these two allies for decades. and germany and the japanese. i would push back and say military force of arms and the other destruction of hamas will provide a better future for the palestinian people at this stage because the ideology that they have invested so much time and energy and all the resources is totally and utterly bankrupt. the sooner that hamas is gone the better for the palestinians appeared to be when we will see if that happens. thank you for hanging with us. we will be right back. many were shocked to learn they've been paying 22% on their credit card balances. and if payments were late, as much as 30%.

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>> as we were talking during the break back it's not in the

middle east and how you can untie that is beyond any incomprehension i have. >> it is the lit motive of today's show. >> john: but if you don't get rid of hamas you're leaving a fat there whenever it reemerges but how do you destroy hamas without incurring civilian casualties that we'll be untenable for most people? it's hard to figure out the. >> sandra: israelis argue we've come this far and we have 4 big gaze to take out and it than we have a limited hamas, allow us to do it. we will seek xo for is not clear with the budget ministration we'll. >> john: go and were still waiting for a response on the news hamas expected the cease-fire. we will sea if we get anything. we'll be back here again tomorrow good to be with you love your foreign policy expertise. >> sandra: thank you remi john. >> john: working at the white house ashley did do something. >> sandra: there you go. >> john: figure joining us on john roberts. >> and julia turner. the story with martha starts now it. >> martha: thank you joh