there has been that they believe is true and this court knows that there is other information that was not a part of this case and i believe this court knows the defense was hugely ham strung and i think the court was pained at times over what to do. i'm talking about not being able to call the medical professionals, not being able to call the shooters to the stand or cross-examine on various pieces of evidence. all of those are issues, but there were -- >> we heard from jennifer groom lee and expected to hear from james crumbley.

ethan shot and killed four classmates in november of 2021 and we heard from sisters, mothers, fathers, tearful, chilling, horrifying accounts of that that day, and the life sentence that they have endured each and every day since then. his parents james and jennifer crumbley ai was helping madisonk

out her senior classes. while you were purchasing a gun for your son and leaving it unlocked, i was helping her finish her college essays. while you drop your son off at school, upset that he was feeling a class, i texted my

daughter drive safe, and have a good day. at plate. let us take a look at this. these are text messages from ethan crumbley. keys to the case. listen to that. i actually asked my father to take me to the doctor yesterday and he t told me to suck it up w

disturbing drawings at his desk, this included a picture of --

>> harris: she is facing 15 years going back and forth with this judge in a way that i have to say, it scratches my head a bit. and when listening to her talk to this judge she wanted to know

why medical was not allowed in, she had a lot of questions and we are at the sentencing hearing. in those impact statements work in powerful and powerful and worked in a sense if they could get the next 15 is. that is the time when you understand

>> well this is unprecedented

>> sean: we disregard bail laws i do not agree -- i think it is a step too far, where we

as a country to say why don't we get behind the politics of this -- was the drugs that were prescribed whether antidepressants or anything? what was going on in the familiy and why don't we ask what is happening with these kids that they grab guns and start shooting people. one last point ethan, he was waived into adult court. prosecutor as an adult. the parents, they were assumed

that their parenting a child. you cannot have an adult in court but also then hold the parents accountable as if it is a child. >> kayleigh: i imagine if you were on the jury, a unmistakable fact you keep coming back to is that you know your son has access to a weapon, you know he has done wrong, drawing our attention to the screen her children. and to lose a child is unimaginable, i agree.

my part has truly affected everybody involved. i understand my words are not going to bring any comfort. i understand that they are not going to relieve any pain, quite frankly you probably just don't believe me. however, i really want these families of madison baldwin, giuliana, kate, and justin, to know how truly sorry i am on how

devastated i was when i heard what happened to them. i have cried for a year and the rest of your children more times than i can count. i know your pain and loss will never go away. part of you will be missing forever. but please know that i am truly very sorry, i am sorry for your loss as a result of what my son has done.

i it really does. i am not going to overdo a lot of things that were already said but, i know the full amount of pressure that you had on you and the responsibility that has been

placed on you throughout this case. i have the utmost respect for you, and i am going to ask that you sentence us for failure, you presided over my child and heard the evidence that was placed against me you know that what my every day because of what my son has done. but i want you to know i still

grieve for everyone as i have explained. for everyone who has been affected, on what my son pled guilty to allowed. for as long as the court deems necessary.

i also want to address one last thing, and that is, to

>> kayleigh: you have been listening to james crumbley who has been convicted of four counts of manslaughter for have some indications that this remorseful testimony might not be so remorseful for us and they pointed to jailhouse phone calls

where he has threatened the prosecutor in this case. what happened before the killing? it seems to me a catastrophic lack of parenting. this man parents on

that day. he had a drawing and as a parent a reasonable parent would say look, i know he has access to a weapon he bought days ago but maybe let's check his backpack.

broken, so then we wonder what the other pants was like in the home. the prosecution feels like it is done to the bottom of had the

50-year-old having to do that. the youngest victim was 14. 14. >> kayleigh: if you

>> harris: we have been covering this all morning long, jennifer and james crumbley fighting for more for them then they would likely get from this judge. they are up for a 15 year maximum, a mass shooting that killed four students and injured seven other people in michigan their son did that and they were found guilty of involuntary manslaughter and now today is

their sentencing. let us go live to garrett who has been covering all the details and can give us may be a deeper look at what is going on in the courtroom garrett? >> one thing that was notable in both the parents statement, they went after the arguments the prosecutors have made in calling for a higher than normal sentencing. state guidelines call for seven years for involuntary manslaughter and prosecutors are asking for ten to 15 years in part because they argue that crumbley have shown little to no remorse over this mass shooting that was committed by their son.

prosecutors have argued in both trials that the parents ignored warning signs that the mental health was spiraling in the days leading up to the shooting, and instead of getting him help they bought him a gun and failed to secure it and allowed the 15 euros to use the weapon for days after it was but to kill for have his classmate and injured seven others. just give me some pills and told me to suck it up. and then the point i am asking

to go to the doctor his mother laughed when i told her. two separate juries found james and jennifer crumbley guilty of four counts of involuntary manslaughter at least for jennifer crumbley, regardless of what the sentencing is, she is already planning to appeal her conviction harris? >> harris: great job. thank you very much garrett. there is a lot of things being done today, and we will continue to take you inside the courtroom as we learn more about the sentencing today. that has not happened so there is a lot more to come out of michigan. meanwhile, the new bidenarris student loan plan is making some waves. president biden unveiled this plan yesterday that would help bail out some $30 million, and keep a promise he will never stop using text that she wants to raise the debt of those people even if it means blowinge

u.s. supreme court. >> tens of millions of people's debt is literally about to get canceled. but then some of my republican friends elected officials and the supreme court had to block us. but that did not stop us. i mean this sincerely we are finding alternatives to release student debt payment. that are not challenging. i will never stop to deliver student debt relief from hardworking americans. >> harris: vice president kamala harris said they want taxpayers to fit the bill no matter what. >> if you have paid undergrad loans for 20 plus years or 25 or more years your loans will be completely forgiven regardless of your income and even if you did not graduate. and forgiveness will be automatic for the vast majority of the 25 million people we believe will benefit from this approach. >> harris: sean, they are not

many people who feel like they can fight the u.s. supreme court. but biden is in his own lane right now. and he is begging and hoping that it's ing to generate votes. >> sean: no doubt. this is all politics, in america we have this idea you can take from the rich and get to the port. we can promise this to poor people in elections but this is the first time you had jill biden who wants to take money from poor people to benefit the rich people. that is remarkable to me but i think president biden is a threat to democracy. the supreme court that said he could not do it. but they never funded student loan forgiveness but kamala harris is doing it anyway. and he is saying republicans are a threat to democracy but no joke you are threat. >> harris: i did reset earlier with my team and for a four-year

degree or more 70% of the american workforce it does not have that level of education. some have gone to two-year colleges are less than that or some not at all. they will be called upon as american taxpayers to pay for all of those who have had the ultimate experience of those four plus years of college. is that fair? >> gerri: it is not and it proves that go into college may ruling your future. this is -- that's the other issue is not just those who are still paying those loans, it is those who do not have them who are not paying them and you have to think what were these people majoring in. with a majoring in these dumb things. >> tammy: such as women or racial studies. that is where the colleges should start to pay off some of these things instead of the taxpayers because they allow these people to graduate without a skill. >> gerri: but that is not what

is happening, we are just telling the colleges you can charge whatever you want, now we see the costs are rising yet again. you said 70,000 was a lot, 80,000 is a lot, now it is almost six figures, a hundred thousand dollars at some schools. this is ridiculous and what president biden is doing is compounding the stakes of the government, and said we are going to give you a better way to pay, a slower way to pay, and what happened the interest on those loans that is what kicked up and sent total debt to 1.7 trillion people. >> harris: i know because of your acumen, you are flying at 37,000 feet, help us fight with you. dig into the numbers, what happens if another president flips the switch? >> gerri: they need to find a way to pay the schools and they have to lower their cost the school's are addicted to this federal money, they know that no

matter what happens they are going to get paid there is no reason to lower costs, the students will have -- there's a generation of students whoave to pay this off slowly and for a long time. i do not think there's any way the generous repayment plans will be taken back. i do not think it can happen. >> harris: going back to you tammy, you said something and there are certain questions about it, one an array studies, those are dumb places to put education. as a mostly one-man show. can you clarify? >> tammy: when you think about what you gonna do for women when you graduate what kinds of things are you going to be able to make money? you go to college you assume that you are going to be upper-middle-class or making enough money for the american dream. versus looking at social activism of that of thing. that kind of dynamic at roots level combined with the nature of indoctrination when it comes to the left wing politics in the

nature which you are trained to do, to agitate or become a poet, it does not get you far. we have to think about -- when we think about vocational schools, but you can also go to college and even philosophy helps you deal with any type of work you wanted to. or event think about the nature of communications. they are all kinds of different things. it is the lawyers and the doctors who are sucking up so much of this money. >> harris: because a cost so much to go to school to become that. >> tammy: and they will make the money to pay back. >> harris: thank you for that. okay this is happening. the judge is talking. judge cheryl matthews is getting ready to read the sentence right now against or for james and jennifer crumbley. we have heard the impacts today

very powerful for parents and loved ones from those who have died from that date those for high schoolers. but now we have also been able to digest for a few moments the very words of the people who are guilty of involuntary manslaughter after their son ethan crumbley, at the age of 15 killed people at the school. let us not tune in. >> i thought about this case and i've considered the possibility for rehabilitation and the need to protect society, the penalty appropriate to the conduct and the goal of protecting others from similar conduct. i have reviewed the investigation report and i am of course sadly familiar with the circumstances of these cases as well as those surrounding those of the defendant. the advisory sentence guidelines do not capture the catastrophic impact of what has happened in this matter.

they do not take into account complete lack of insight both depend a taffeta behavior to this day. the guidelines do not account for the severity of the circumstances in this manner. they ignore the survivors including shooting victims, trump --there were six others we deeply wounded both physically and emotionally. in addition to the seven wou wounded, the gross negligence has caused unimaginable suffering to hundreds of others as a result of what is happened that day. each act or an action created a ripple effect. therefore, under the guideline sentence is appropriate and proportional. the court uses the useful tool of legislated guidelines which embody the principles and the personality while also taking into account the nature of the offense in the background of each defendant.

i believe that the following sentence would be a serf of justice and are reasonable and proportionate to the seriousness of the manner and circumstances surrounding each defendant. with regards to jennifer crumbley, it is the sentence of this court that you serve ten to 15 years and the department of corrections and you ll have credit for 858 days, state cost at $272, and you and your agents may not have any contact with families involving madisyn baldwin, justin shilling, tate myre, and hana st. juliana. i will issue another ruling regarding the sun the shooter. excuse me. as to james crumbley. it is the sentence of this court that you serve ten to 15 years with the mission departments of

direction and you receive credit for 858 days. all you pay a matter of $272 and there is a crime of a hundred and $30 that you and your agents have no contact with the families of medicine involving justin -- have i left anything out with regards to sentencing? no restitution has been requested by any of the families at this time correct? thank you. i would like to advise defendants that you are -- exceeding the guideline range, this is done by filing a claim of appeal by when you are not intended to file by right and it -- if you cannot hire an attorney to represent you and you request an attorney and attorney may be appointed for

you. you may request an attorney by withth completing this section f the fund that will be provider for you and by returning the form to this court. or to the michigan assigned counsel system and the address on the form. if you wish to preserve your right to appeal the form must be received after 42 days after sentencing. if you do not submitted the form has to be received within six months after sentencing. do each of the defendants acknowledge the fault right? >> with the court right or forms do you prefer us to >> it doesn't matter either way. >> harris: we have just seen the sentence given by the judge in this rochester hills, michigan, court room now for james and jennifer crumbley. who are found guilty. of involuntary manslaughter after their 15-year-old son a

sophomore in high school kill classmates and injured seven other people. each parent will get ten to 15 years behind bars, time served, 858 days credit, and then they went into some smaller numbers of renumeration for the legal process. i want to bring and now bryant, a criminal defense attorney, you and i have been working this together for a couple of hours n you make of the sentencing that this judge has given each of those parents? >> harris, you and i talked a while ago about the value of these victim impact statements and before i even talk to you this morning i thought when i woke up these parents would probably get between six to eight years, but i will tell you categorically when you and i talked about the mothers, talking about their daughters and looking at their dead bodies and how they sat there for 10 minutes in a pool of blood and these kids cannot go to france or avon to college or they cannot even get married

that played a major factor in judge matthews giving them the harsher sentence. she went beyond just so your viewers no, this is extraordinary of a sentence. she went beyond the advisory guidelines which had the sentence lower. she went higher at ten to 15. >> harris: i want to understand that because everything i read said that the maximum was 15 so when she went beyond the guidelines it is still within that guidelines of being the maximum sentence. >> yes apparently there is an advisory guideline in michigan, then made a recommendation or a certain sentencing of ten years -- that is why prosecutors are saying ten to 15. why did they do that? because harris, judge can do what they want especially when it comes to sentencing. >> harris: i know you were watching, so i would want to

understand how differently these two people were represented by counsel. the council for jennifer crumbley, moments before the judge handed the sentencing, and before her husband james, spoke was arguing that the medical records are not -- there was not enough done in that case. it felt like a set up for appeal for the mother jennifer crumbley benedict first set above do not give her that many years, what was going on there? and what impressed you most about -- what was going on there first of all but the judge in this defense attorney? >> you are right, harris, first of all it was inappropriate. for the lawyer to get up and talk to the judge about that. save that for another day. what she was trying to do is influence judge matthews ruling on how many years both crumbley will get. but it was misplaced and a failure to make those comments at a sentencing hearing, in my

opinion, the parents are borderline psychopaths, both of them thought more about how this has affected them and how it was inconvenient for them in jail and how they have to live the rest of their lives thinking about this. what about the victims? that was the first thing they should have done -- >> harris: -- >> i have done close to 100 jury trials in my career, crumbley, jajames crumbley, his heart was not in it, and you saw that the end, his voice inflected more when he was talking about how he got a miscarriage of justice. do you remember that? talking about we will get the truth on this, but what about these four young lives that have been lost? he was more passionate about

that, it was crazy. >> harris: we appreciate your expertise today, it was a lot to take them. thank you so very much. sean, at some point we need to get to your question because there are a lot of people who feel this is a slippery slope when it comes to justice. i look forward to having that conversation with you and other attorneys moving forward because we have had others in this continuously is happening with kids who are not treating or treated the way they need to beg wounds society. >> sean: we are truly outraged

by the behavior of these parents. it's about the system and the standards that we use and have that we should abide by. a really good comment i think in regard to the defendant's statement the court, i've been to a hunter charles as well, you want to take responsibility and show compassion it up but the mother left her head and according to the text messages. should she be aware of the hazard she was created when she brought her son a gun when he

tried to buy ammunition in class and she said i am not mad at you just do not get caught. should she have reasonably been aware of what she was creating in the situation she was creating when she knew she had bought him a gun days before, drawing a picture of a dead body underground, as she did not ask the school principal to check the backpack. it is a cookie-cutter socks match in the law and the keys we're looking at. >> harris: james and jennifer crumbley had been sentenced to 12 to 15 years. for the very first time a parent or parents of a school shooter

had been held directly responsible for their child's killing. convicted, not a plea deal, convicted. they are going to prison. the mother is already set to appeal, we will follow the story as we make more news along the way. but today, the parents of ethan crumbley, who carried out a mass shooting at the age of 15, they are going to prison. more "outnumbered" coming up next. cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com.

a bill until that delivers just that. >> you have a irate industry where people were still packages from somebody's front door. and citizens have responded in different ways. >> you have these doable cameras but it's not effective. it is not something you should have to do in the state of florida, so we are not going to put up with that either. so today's bills, the bill i will sign is not only cracking down on retail theft, but also on porch piracy. so if you order something and they leave it at your front door, and you come home from work or you bring your

kids home from school, the package is going to be there, and if it is not someone is going to be held to account accountable. t >> yes, this is important because you have people who do things because they see other people getting away with it, and this matters because it sends a message to individual how there is good percussion to this type of action and of course it expands into other things. i go to the subway or certain train systems, and nobody pays. i pay, and i begin to think and my benchmark? why am i paying? but as more people are seeing crime happening the more people think what is the point of following the rules? what should i not do this so you don't want to get on the camera so you just a basic trash back.

but the more they are repercussions and you see you are going to be caught, i think fewer people would do this. >> kayleigh: the state of florida is the best state in the country, less crime, no incomes tax. >> gerri: do you remember the broken window theory? doubtless i stand back then. that one does not get broken and maybe we should try to prevent lawlessness. now it is not just porch thievery it is also all of these retailers who are getting broken into people are taking everything imaginable and stuffing it into their pockets and walking up the front door and nothing is happening the other day i tried to buy something simple like toothpaste and i could not get it.

ridiculous. >> harris: wasn't locked? yes and then the generic for the drugs who are name-brand, were not locked up. so there is a place for some of these companies now to benefit for what the thieves are mostly taking the name brand items. i have never seen that before so i asked the pharmacist what are the different you have to read both labels for basically nothing but one is 4499 and the other is -- i think someone is profiting this is bizarre. >> kayleigh: it's not just retail crime, but he made it a crime to knowingly mislead law enforcement about having fentanyl, this is important because there was a 19-month-old child that was crawling around on a rental and exposed to fentanyl, and lost her life. you are putting law enforcement in danger and it's not just retail crime it is fentanyl as

well. >> harris: firefighters as well, -- >> sean: being tough on crime is going to be better because more people than to come from other states to florida. this is simple when you prosecute crime, 1 of 3 things happen. you send people to jail, they will stop committing crimes or they go to new york or chicago or somewhere else. [laughter] but you are safe there in florida. so good of ron desantis. >> kayleigh: derrin boyd you coming south. we are seeing you all come -- but we all have room for you. more "outnumbered" " in just a moment. and home. not flossing well? then add the whoa! of listerine to your routine. new science shows listerine is 5x more effective than floss at reducing plaque above the gumline. for a cleaner, healthier mouth. ahhhhh. listerine. feel the whoa! hi, i'm jason and i've lost 202 pounds on golo. so when i first started golo, i was expecting to lose around 40 pounds

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>> we are hoping to bring you this video within seconds breaking news from inside the capitol building. anti-israel protesters just shut down the largest cafeteria on the senate side. they were chanting, according to our producers there, they were saying the capitol police are chanting "eveready out or be placed under arrest" and the protesters were shouting back in quote this is the house of the people, the senate can't eat until gaza eats." fox news has learned many of the activists are the same one that interrupted secretary austen's testimony earlier today on the senate armed forces hearing looking into the military budget. now we have seen so many of

these protesters now show up even outside of the bloomington delaware home of the president of the united states. they followed biden around everywhere he goes now. every state. and they may not have been protesters but the vote against him that was uncommitted in places where we have seen so much in anti-israel movement like michigan, in those places those voters were above 100,000 voting uncommitted not for biden so this is the political side, we have the video, role. here it is. vote to stomach protesters gathered shutting down the largest cafeteria on the senate side of capitol hill. making their voices heard going back and forth with cops. "america reports" will be all over it, stay tuned. speak of this court's with 10 102-15 years jean crumley in the sentence of this