harvey levin: the objects people keep in their home define who they are. this is "objectified: donald trump." this is gonna be great. i'm harvey levin. you're about to see donald trump like you've never seen him before--in his home, talking about his life, the high points and the low. told through treasured objects he's chosen to keep. i sat down with trump a month and a half ago in his penthouse high above fifth avenue in trump tower. [crowd chanting "usa, usa"] we want you to see the next president of the united states-- the father, the aspiring movie producer, the sports fanatic, the man who still grieves over his brother's death, and the future politician. oprah winfrey: this sounds like political presidential talk.

levin: who was secretly egged on by a united states president. so, i want to tell you what we're gonna do. ok. so, you know, you get on--onstage and you do speeches every day. i want to talk about donald trump the guy who became what you are today and how that happened. but it's gonna be told through objects that span from your childhood until now. so, i'd like to start. i'm gonna go pick a picture. i'm gonna find you young and i'll be right back. trump: ok. levin: i'm assuming this is you. trump: yeah. levin: so, how old were you then? trump: what do you think? it looks, like 3, huh? maybe 3? levin: were you rich then? trump: yeah. my father was a builder. levin: right. trump: and he was a very good builder, too. he knew how to build a house. and when he sold the house ... they still tell me, "i lived in a house your father built." levin: right. did you live opulently as a kid? trump: no, because queens is, you know, queens is, you might

have--i'm sure you have a lot of friends that grew up in queens. so, it wasn't opulent but it was good. it was a great environment. very different, i think, maybe, than today, but it was a great environment. levin: how so? because you are the--you are a very manhattan kind of guy. trump: i view it so differently. here we sit overlooking central park. now when i go there, it seems very quaint. every once in a while, i'll go... levin: and you don't seem like a quaint guy. trump: well, you know, maybe i'm more quaint than you would think. sometimes on my way out to wherever i may be going, i'll stop. because it's an exit, right? utopia parkway. levin: right. trump: and i get off the exit and i'll stop and take a look at my house where i grew up with my parents and brothers and sisters and had a good early life. levin: were you spoiled? trump: probably. levin: how so? trump: well, you know, i had parents who spoiled me. my father was tough. my mother maybe in her own way was tougher, but she spoiled me. levin: i understand you actually worked as a child. trump: i did. levin: a paper route? trump: i did. i did the paper thing. i cleaned laundry rooms

because my father had a building or something. we had a little laundry room. levin: right. trump: and collect sometimes the coins from the machine. levin: i read that when it rained, you took your dad's limo to deliver papers. trump: no, that is a story that's out there. i don't believe so. levin: there is a story out about a music teacher you didn't think knew anything about music and you hit the music teacher because you were like, "you don't know anything." trump: well, it gets a little exaggerated. levin: but you were strong-willed. trump: yeah, i was strong-willed. yeah, that story is very exaggerated. that story is all over the place. i hate that story. but no, that's not something i would do. levin: how were you punished as a kid? i mention it because your dad was a disciplinarian. trump: he was, and so was my mother, but the wooden spoon, you know, that you use to stir? my mother would say, "oh, i'm gonna get the wooden spoon," but she'd never use it. she was a talker in that sense. levin: so, you never--there was no corporal punishment. trump: no, no, there weren't-- that wasn't their world. they were firm. levin: right. trump: loving. great parents.

my father was a very strong guy but he was a very loving guy. very good guy. very kind. very big heart. you know, but a tough guy. levin: so, for the first 12 years of your life, what's your takeaway from it? i mean, what kind of sticks with you today? trump: i think i realize the value of having great family, great parents. i had great parents. [drumbeat] trump: success is a very important thing. it's certainly been very important to me. and i can tell you that one of the great choices i ever made in terms of success was the choice of going to nyma--new york military academy. this is an old yearbook from where i went to school. here's my picture. levin: ha! trump: sort of funny. levin: wow, you are--you are full military there. trump: no, that was a really good place, actually, yeah. i met people up there. one of them was a drill sergeant, i

guess, and he was rough. and i remember the first day i went up and he said, "stand up at attention" to everybody. and i'm going like, "oh, give me a break." levin: how old were you when you went to military school? trump: i was there 5 years, so, i went to--through high school, so, i graduated, i guess, around 17, something. levin: so, you were there-- 13--you went to military school. where was it? trump: right, and it was upstate new york, called new york military academy. good place. levin: but your family still lived in queens. trump: they still lived in queens. levin: why'd you go? trump: well, my father thought it would be good for discipline reasons. levin: that's a pretty extreme thing, to send your kid away to upstate new york. what kind of discipline problems were you having? trump: well, i was just somebody that was rebellious. compared to what you're reading about today, this is minor stuff, but i was rebellious. levin: how did that rebelliousness manifest itself? trump: well, i think, you know, in class, i was a smart person, but i would be very rambunctious. i'd talk

way out of turn. levin: did you resent your dad when he sent you? trump: no, not at all. i understood. levin: did he sit you down and say, "here's why"? trump: well, he said, "i want to shape you up." levin: i want to get into your head just a little bit, because obviously, look, i mean, kids rebel and your dad obviously felt at a point... trump: yeah. levin: you needed that kind of structure. trump: yeah, i mean, maybe--you just mentioned the word. it was "structure." it was great structure for me. it structuralized my thinking and my life. it had a good impact on me. i was able to get it. ... i was a captain. you know, i would--i graduated at the highest level in terms of a military rank. i was the captain of the baseball team and i was always, you know, good at that stuff. i loved the environment. that whole military environment. to this day, i have a feeling for the military, and i guess maybe it was partially because of that.

levin: tell me about the car. trump: well, it's barron's car. barron when he was little. levin: yeah, this is not barron's car today, because barron's 5' 10" and 10 years old. trump: yeah. that was his car when he was a little boy. levin: you have raised kids who everybody says, whether they support you or oppose you, they all say all of your kids are great, they're focused, they're successful, and they love you. trump: yeah. i have great kids. man: i think being trumps and having the trump genetics, we've wanted to be in this family business really since almost we were born. woman: i think starting very early just spending a tremendous amount of time watching him engaged in business was-- was very helpful. levin: how do you score 100% on that? how do you do that? trump: well, you know, it's also--i don't know. it's also-- and so important. you know, you can be strict, you can lay down the rules. you have to be-- you are born a certain way.

i mean, you're born, you have smart children, you don't have smart children. you love them the same. and there's something very nice about that. there really is something nice about that. i think it's important to make children understand the value of the dollar. the value of work. the value of money. the value of achievement. levin: do you think that's really critical in terms of how your kids turned out? trump: harvey, it's so important. they have to understand values and they have to understand what it is to be successful. man: i didn't have a conventional father-son relationship with my father growing up. we didn't go play ball. i followed him around job sites and real estate and watching him do these things. so, you know, now i'm working. it's really just been the culmination of all of that expertise and knowledge and getting to work with him hand-in-hand, that's just been an amazing experience. levin: do you spoil your kids? trump: i guess they're spoiled, but you know, you can't let them believe too much. when you grow up in a place like this and you--you see life from maybe a little bit of a different perspective, but i try not to spoil them. levin: so, barron. is he

kind of cut from the same cloth as your other kids or is he a little different? trump: i think he's very similar. he's smart and strong and good. he's got a good heart. levin: strong-willed. trump: strong-willed, yes. levin: he is his dad. they call him "little donald" around here. trump: oh, really? well, i don't know, but maybe we should not wish that on him. levin: ha ha! trump: but he's--he's a good guy. levin: he can't go on the internet, right? trump: he actually does. i mean, he's pretty advanced, i'll tell you what, when it comes to the computers, but you know, you talk about bullying and cyber bullying and all the things that kids have to go through. i think it's a lot tougher for children today. levin: how's he doing? trump: he's doing good. i hope. levin: i understand that you have hard rules for your kids. trump: no drugs, no alcohol, no cigarettes. levin: i hear you added no tattoos. trump: the thing is, look, i have so many friends that have tattoos. would i do it, no, but a lot of people would.

levin: how involved are you in childrearing? trump: not too much. i would like to say a lot. i talk to all my children, but not in the sense of that much involvement. nothing i'm proud of, i just-- the mothers have done such a good job. this is the chair that i used in the boardroom of "the apprentice." we had a lot of good luck with this chair. 14 seasons. levin: if it weren't for this show, would you be in a position to run and do what you've done? trump: i don't know. a lot of people ask that question. it may have helped me develop a certain skill. levin: what is that skill? are you a sore loser? trump: i don't want to lose it, harvey. just don't want to be the one. for lower back pain sufferers,

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trump: welcome to the boardroom. it won't be easy, but you're gonna have some interesting experiences. this is the chair that i used in the boardroom of "the apprentice." and we had a lot of good luck with this chair. 14 seasons. i think that is so stupid... you're fired. go. man: ok. all right. trump: terrible. levin: if it weren't for this show, would you be in a position to run and do what you've done? trump: i don't know. a lot of people ask that question. levin: it changed you. trump: well, it may have. levin: it changed the perception of you in the public.

trump: are you ready? [all talking at once] trump: but before we find out who won. you know it is my hair. you know that. [laughter] and it may have helped me develop a certain skill. television. who knows, for whatever that is. but i will say very, very strongly that if it weren't for "the apprentice," i mean, it's just been to me a great experience. levin: you say you developed a skill from the show. um...that translates into politics. what is that skill? trump: well, i thought i had that skill at the very beginning, from the first episode. i want to pass along my knowledge to somebody else. i'm looking for the apprentice. levin: but somehow, it connected with people. trump: i feel that that's a natural talent and--but you can always get better at something, harvey. and now arnold will do the show and we'll see how arnold does. arnold: let's get down to business. levin: you come off on that show as a supremely confident decision-maker who is gruff and tough.

man: to me, i'm back here as a fighter. i'm back here as a winner. trump: but bret, you've been a winner. you are a winner. you're great. bret, you're fired. levin: and no nonsense and it's my way and it's the highway. trump: wouldn't you say you crossed the line? man: um...i crossed the line. trump: this is why the country's gotten into such trouble. this is the kind of thinking that we've been witnessing on wall stree 5 years. levin: did that carry over to politics? trump: i think that what you have to do in show business and in politics is be yourself, and--unless you're playing another character, but in my case, i was playing myself, so, you know, i had sort of an easy job. all i had to do is be myself. you've been lazy. you've been nothing but trouble. you claimed to be like me. the difference is i work hard. the show, to me, it was--it was just--it was a great honor to have done it. 14 seasons. that's a long time. and i will say this, harvey, turning it down was one of the--turning down a continuation was a tough decision for me. that was a-- one of the tougher decisions.

i remember mark burnett said, "they want to renew you." everybody in show business says yes. i mean, how many people say no? but i said no. i don't want to be renewed. we are going to run for president. get lucky. levin: what is this? trump: it's a club championship trophy, and-- levin: that you won. trump: yeah. i've won a lot of club championships over the years. levin: sports has been a big part of your life. trump: yes. levin: why has it just connected with you the way it--the way it has because you are intensely a sports guy. trump: i've always loved playing sports and i've always loved maybe the competition of sports. but it's been good for me. it's been really good for me, i think, in a lot of different ways, but sports to me is very important. man: batter up. batter up. [crowd cheering] levin: has it helped you with discipline and kind of just

getting things done? trump: yeah, probably so. i mean, who really knows? i don't think of it in that way. i do it because i enjoy it, whether it's tennis or golf or whatever you may play. you know, as you get older, you sort of--your choices are more limited. you can't put together, like, 18 people on a baseball field. but i've just always loved being a sportsman or playing sports. ♪ for it's 1, 2, 3 strikes you're out at the old ball game ♪ levin: you admire athletes. trump: well, i respect athletes. i respect winners. i respect great athletes, and some-- you know, you learn so much from sports, because it's just sort of a microcosm of life, except one thing--you have a winner and you have a loser and it takes place in a short period of time. with life, it's meandering. you don't know and you don't know exactly what it is and you don't know who wins, who loses, but it is a microcosm of life. levin: what about tom brady? you seem to connect with him.

trump: well, he's a friend of mine. he's a great guy and he's a great athlete, obviously, but he's a winner. reporter: he's a guy who likes winning like you. you think he's got what it takes? brady: i hope so. that'd be great. be a putting green on the white house lawn, i'm sure of that. [laughter] levin: what did you think of deflategate? trump: well, you know, he played better when he had the other ball. i think tom is totally innocent. i think tom is-- first of all, i know him. he's such an honorable guy. and i'm with him all the way. levin: shaq has actually said that you intimidate him. shaq: donald's like a straight-up guy. like, if he sees your shirt tucked out, he won't ... he'll be like, "tuck your [bleep] shirt in." trump: i don't think anybody intimidates shaq, ok? including me. levin: you've used golf to really kind of cement deals and develop relationships. would you end up using golf as a way of kind of cementing relationships with leaders? trump: well, you don't know. i must say i've been campaigning so much i've played very little

golf over the last-- pretty long period of time. levin: so, you're about to tell me you'd lose? trump: golf--golf ... right now. golf is a very--it's a great game for getting to know people, both good and bad, by the way. you can learn some bad things about people, but mostly good. you can never, ever get to know people at lunch or dinner like you can on a golf course. levin: the phillies and red sox scouted you at a point. you were a great baseball player. had you been picked to join the team, either one, would you have done that instead of going into business? trump: i love baseball. look, i just love sports. but i was a good baseball player. i don't know. i think probably not. i guess not. well, i remember i was having some tryouts and there were some players that actually made the major leagues and they were with me, and i remember saying to my friends, "they are very good." you know, so, you never know. i mean, you just never know. levin: well, if you had the shot, i mean, bad news-- trump: look, when you're 20 years old or you're 18 years

old, you'd probably say absolutely, you know? levin: are you a sore loser in sports? trump: well, i don't like losing. i don't think i'm a sore loser. you know, it's interesting--if somebody else plays great or does something great, i feel much better than if i lose it. i don't want to lose it, harvey. you know that feeling. you just don't want to be the one. i've never had a drink because of my brother. levin: does it worry you that you might have that gene? does it scare you? trump: i do have a personality that maybe, you know, you'd carry me out of this room one day, ok. levin: what do you mean by that? so, mr. harris, we have your fingerprints on the safe. a photo of you opening the safe. a post using the hashtag "#justrobbedthesafe" so, what are we supposed to think?

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the pope saying some must escape bombs or flee in migrant boats. the pope also saying christmas has been taken hostage and the season needs more humility. tomorrow he'll deliver his christmas day message. thousands of pilgrims from around the world are flocking to the biblical town of bethlehem to celebrate christmas eve. bethlehem is the traditional birthplace of jesus. the faithful are able to wonder through the square listening to christmas music played in arabic. and despite the holiday cheer, security forces are on high alert because of conflicts in the region. the celebration of hanukkah getting underway tonight, also known as the festival of lights. the eight-day thoild commemorates the rededication of the holy temple with the lights of the me nknow ra. a large section of the dakotas is under a blizzard

warning, the national weather service is forecasting heavy snow and strong winds sunday and monday. snow is also possible for much of idaho, montana, utah, and northeast colorado. a dozen homes north of detroit were evacuated this morning after a homeowner in the suburb of frazier called police with news of a sinkhole. one road was closed to traffic. police aren't sure when it will rehope. a gas line was also turned off as a precaution. i'm matt finn. now back to "objectified: donald trump." levin: so, those are your brothers and sisters. trump: right. levin: you got a big family. trump: well, a great family. 5--in terms of children, 5.

and a great father and a great mother. levin: freddy is standing in the middle there. trump: right. levin: tell me about freddy. trump: unbelievable personality. the best. a very handsome guy. everybody loved him. much better person than me, i guess. you know, i mean, in a lot of ways. levin: why do you say that? trump: well, he just had a tremendous heart. and i have heart. you know, i love people. but he had something that was very special, and smart. he had the whole package, and he got into trouble with the alcohol. levin: he really became, you know, horribly addicted to alcohol. trump: well, he did and he, you know, he died of that, and--and i tell people. i tell my family. we can not talk about it or we can talk about it. i think what we're doing by talking about it is freddy is-- is really helping people. he's really a legacy. he's helping people. because i've never had a drink because of my brother. if you don't start, you're never gonna have a

problem. if you do start, you might have a problem. and it's a tough problem to stop. levin: did you try to help him stop? trump: oh, yeah, we tried to help him and it was just a very--you know, it was a very tough period of time. we tried to help him. levin: he died at 42, really, from alcoholism. how did it affect you? trump: amazingly, because it's not a natural progression. you know, you don't lose your young brother with so much life and so many--you know, so much potential. levin: you are really adamant about that with your kids, i know. donald jr., your son, has been open that during college, he drank too much, and he decided to stop. did it scare you when he started drinking? trump: yeah, well, i heard about it, and i was a little surprised, because i was heavy with them when--i mean, every day, every time that, you know, leave the house. no drugs, no alcohol, no cigarettes. so, i was a little bit surprised, but-- levin: did you intervene when

you knew he was drinking? trump: i spoke to him, but he never had, you know, the big problem. but you never know what's going to happen. that could've been on the way. levin: you said something interesting. you said, "if you don't start, you're not gonna have a problem." trump: the easiest is don't start. levin: does it worry you that you might have that gene, something inside of you that if you took a drink, you wouldn't stop? you might turn into what happened to fred, and does it scare you? trump: yeah, but the nice part is that if you don't drink, you don't have to worry about it, and that's part of the thing. so, if i said, "ok, maybe i have that gene, so, i'll drink very, very little." but if you have that gene, you're never gonna stop. levin: you don't want to take a chance. trump: and i do have a personality that maybe, you know, you'd carry me out of this room one day, ok, i mean, who knows? i saw a friend of mine-- levin: what do you mean by that? trump: well, you don't know. i mean, if you think you're gonna drink just a little bit, you know, in moderation, but if you have the gene, i'm not sure that you can moderate very easily. levin: so, do you not drink out of fear or out of choice?

trump: both. levin: i had dinner with a friend this week who was in your office a long time ago. ivanka was 23. and she walked in and said, "dad, i'm going--i'm going out with some of my friends tonight," and you gave her a speech in front of the person that i had dinner with, and the speech was "i do not want you to drink. boys will take advantage of you. it's a bad thing." trump: well, again, i learned from my brother, and yeah, i've been very tough on my children with respect to that. and when people say, you know, because my children are doing nicely and people respect my children, and sometimes even very successful people would say, "could you talk to my child and"-- levin: do you do that? trump: i do. i do for people. levin: back to fred, though. is that painful for you to talk about? trump: less than i would think, because i really think by you and i talking about this, we're helping--somebody's out there. maybe it's one person, and that would be ok, too. but somebody's out there that's watching you

and i have this conversation who's not gonna be drinking or not gonna be taking drugs or maybe not start smoking cigarettes because of the conversation we're having right now. and there's something really cool about that, don't you think? levin: business school was not your first choice. trump: well, i wanted to be in a business that you're very familiar with. i wanted to make motion pictures. levin: what was it about-- i mean, that's shocking. tell me what the trump white house would look like, because your place is a little like versailles. ha! ♪ ♪ see ya next year. this season, start a new tradition.

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levin: so, tell me about what this is. trump: that is the entrepreneur of the year award from the wharton school of finance, which, of course, is always a nice thing to get from that kind of a school. levin: you got that when you were in school? trump: i got that a little bit after that. i guess i got that from doing deals. i was

awarded that. levin: so, this was--overall, they looked around the country and they said, "this is the guy." trump: i guess. i didn't ask. i picked it up and i was out of there, so-- levin: my understanding is business school was not your first choice. trump: well, i wanted to be in a business that you're very familiar with. i wanted to make motion pictures. i absolutely did. i was going to apply to usc. levin: usc film school. trump: and i was absolutely going to do that. i loved it. wade. wade: trump. trump: i hear kelson finally dumped you. wade: not exactly, no. we just came to a mutual understanding that she couldn't bear me for another second, that's all. levin: what was it about-- i mean, that's shocking. why-- what was it that literally was gonna make you break from what your dad did and start a career in film? trump: i just liked it. i always liked it. i liked the glamour of movies.

the thing that's hard with that business is you never know what's gonna hit, and like, we do "the apprentice." who would've thought that was gonna be such a big hit, right? well, it's been great, and you know, it became the number-one show on television, and now it's yet another big hit. now, in real estate, there's always risks in everything, but if i get the best location, i do the best-looking building, i get it up on time and on budget, i do things, you know, you have a pretty good chance of success. with a movie, you see, they spend 200 million on a movie and it's a bomb and they spend $500,000 on it, it's a tremendous success, so, you never really-- levin: i gotta tell you, just based on what i know about your personality, that really surprises me, because i have never heard you risk-averse. i've never heard you say, "it's just too risky. i'm fearful of it." and it sounds like movies are almost too big a gamble. trump: i think they are a gamble. i mean, i've seen it. i love the concept of making movies. i love the old great movies--"sunset boulevard." levin: could you have cut it? trump: i don't know. you never

know. i have always said if you can make it in one business, you can make it in another business. levin: do you believe that? trump: yeah, i do. if you like it, if you have an aptitude for it. and you have to be interested in it. but i've always felt, harvey, that if you can make it in one, you'll make it in another, if you like it. you have to like it. you have to love it. we can't be defending japan and we can't be defending saudi arabia and the persian gulf and everybody else. other countries have to pay us for the services we're rendering or this country's gonna go right down the tubes, and that is a shame. phil donahue: and we'll be back in just a moment. [applause] trump: so, you spotted this, but it's a letter from richard nixon. levin: written 1987. trump: and it was just amazing that he wrote. you can read it. levin: "i did not see the program but mrs. nixon told me that you were great on the "donahue" show. as you can imagine, she is an expert on politics and she predicts that whenever you decide to run for

office you will be a winner! with warm regards, sincerely, dick." did you know him? trump: not well, no, i didn't know him, but he would write me letters. it was very interesting. he always wanted me to run for office, but-- levin: were you talking about it back then? trump: not really. oprah winfrey: this sounds like political presidential talk to me, and i know people have talked to you about whether or not you want to run. would you--would you ever? trump: probably not, but i-- i do get tired of seeing the country... winfrey: why would you not? trump: i just don't think i really have the inclination to do it. i love what i'm doing. i really like it. winfrey: also it doesn't pay as well. [laughter] trump: i just probably wouldn't do it, oprah, i probably wouldn't, but i do get tired of seeing what's happening with this country, and if it got so bad, i would never want to rule it out totally. honestly, the first time i really started thinking about doing it was 4 years ago. levin: but this is a guy who clearly saw you after you wrote your book, when you were a successful businessman, and he projected you into politics. trump: well, he--and he had some rough life. i mean, when you think of his life, that was a life of anguish and turmoil,

wouldn't you say? but it was interesting because he wrote this letter and i just... levin: and you really didn't know him at all. trump: i didn't know him well, no. i didn't know him well. levin: does business train you for politics? trump: yeah, i think to a certain extent. i think you need heart, more heart, maybe, in politics, which i think i have, actually, but there are certain things in politics. you have to be a little bit different. maybe you have to be a little bit softer in a certain way, certainly in terms of your thought process, but-- levin: softer in politics than business? trump: look, i mean, think of the decisions that have to be made when you're thinking about sending young men and women into war. ok? into war. you don't have that kind of a decision if you're running a company or if it's business. i mean, these are such monumental decisions. it's a tough--there's no--there's nothing easy about it, that i can tell you. i am officially running... [crowd cheering] for president of the united states. levin: you are a very headstrong guy. when you made the announcement in this building that you were running for president, how improbable

did it seem that you would get to this point? trump: you know, i didn't think i was gonna do it and lose. i mean, you do it to win, right? levin: well, some people do it to make a statement, really knowing they're not gonna get this far. trump: i did it because i thought i could win. levin: so, this doesn't surprise you at all, what's happened? trump: well, it surprises a lot of people. maybe it doesn't surprise me. it doesn't-- i mean, i'm not saying this in a braggadocious way. it doesn't surprise a lot of the people that know me. levin: the day you went down that escalator, you thought you were gonna be the next president of the united states. trump: i think so, because if i didn't think that, i don't think i would've gone down the escalator. levin: tell me what the trump white house would look like, because your place is... a little like versailles. ha! what's gonna change at the white house? trump: i think the white house is such a special place and it has such a special meaning for american people, especially, but for the world. it's a world meaning. and nothing would

change in the white house. the white house will remain the way it is. it's a very special place. in terms of representation or meaning, there's nothing like it. levin: what attracted you to melania? she is stunning, but there's gotta be more than that for it to last this long. trump: look, beauty is, you know, a very nice thing, but after the first hour, you still have to talk to somebody.

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trump: well, my father was a very special guy. he was strong and kind and good and very smart, and i enjoyed my father a lot. levin: how important was he in terms of who you've become? trump: i think he was like sort of everything. he was for me the mentor, my best friend. he just had the whole--the whole ballgame... levin: so, give me the qualities that you think are embodied in you from him. trump: well, i think i have a certain similarity. we loved detail, we loved order. when we built, we built on time. we got people to work. he was a good leader. he believed men and women--now, in those days, it was men--but he'd lead them to

getting a building done or getting a home built or whatever he was doing. and you know, i have that same quality. levin: it seems, though, as much as he influenced you, you wanted to outdo him. he was in queens. he did housing projects. you were in manhattan. you built skyscrapers. trump: i don't think i wanted to outdo him, but maybe psychologically, i did. i would never be able to say to you, "oh, i did," but you know, it could be you're always looking to do maybe a little better than your parents or whatever it may be, but i don't think i-- certainly, i never thought of it in terms of overtly, but maybe deep down inside, maybe i did, and he was very proud of me. he was very proud of the buildings i built. he was very proud of the success that i've had. i've had this incredible success, and he was so proud, and he lived to be almost 94 years old, so, he got to see a lot of it. levin: where did you get the showmanship from? trump: i think my mother had a natural showmanship. she was born in scotland. always

respected the queen. always liked pomp and ceremony. so, i figure maybe that's where it happened. i don't know. but my mother loved--as an example, the buckingham palace thing. she thought it was so beautiful. the changing of the guard. levin: with queen elizabeth? trump: with queen elizabeth. [music playing] she had a lot of respect for the queen. always thought she was a terrific person. levin: your dad was kind of cynical of that. trump: yeah, my father would've been a little bit the opposite, but it was very--it was an interesting combination. well, that is the wedding invitation. it was a beautiful day at the mar-a-lago club in palm beach. levin: 2005? trump: yeah. that was very nice. levin: what attracted you to melania? trump: well, she's a very, very good person. very kind. great mother. unbelievable mother. and we had a very immediate

attraction, absolutely. levin: she is stunning. but there's gotta be more than that for it to last this long. trump: look, beauty is, you know, a very nice thing, but after the first hour, you still have to talk to somebody. but no, she's been--she's been terrific. levin: she is kind of a traditional wife... trump: totally. levin: and it seems like that suits you. trump: i think it does. it does. but she's very traditional. would rather stay at home than, you know, anything else. you know, she's very traditional. i think that's good. levin: and, you know, i hear she's incredibly involved with barron and drives him to school every day. trump: she takes him to school. she's very involved with him. she--she loves family. i mean, her whole thing, and her parents are here every once in a while. they'll come over from europe and she loves having them here. she's a very good person. levin: when you decided to run for the white house, did she wince?

trump: well, she did, and you know, rightfully so, i mean, and they were saying she's an illegal immigrant, and you know, it's like the--oh, did she get hit. levin: when you sit down with her, will she argue with you? does she win? trump: i mean, she has great sense, common sense, but great sense. levin: is she in your ear a lot in terms of-- trump: well, she--she has-- yeah. she has a certain understanding of the world that's pretty good. she comes from europe. levin: does that help? trump: speaks languages. levin: does that help for you, that it's somebody from a different background? trump: well, maybe. i mean, i'm not sure i can really define that, but maybe it does help. but she is somebody that has--has real--she has sense. levin: she's pretty much the dominant factor in raising barron. trump: yes. oh, yes, she is.

i mean, i--i'm a good father, but she's very dominant when it comes to raising our son. levin: is she looking forward to life as a first lady in the white house? there are some people who seem to embrace it and others, like pat nixon, never did. trump: oh, i know, and there are some women that wouldn't like it, some women--i think maybe-- i think she'd do a great job. i think she'd be very, very helpful to charities, different charities. but i can't tell you yet whether or not she'd embrace it, because it's not easy to embrace. levin: you have put your name on all your buildings. that name means a lot to you. that's ego. i mean, do you view ego as a bad thing? coaching means making tough choices. jim! you're in! but when you have high blood pressure and need cold medicine that works fast, the choice is simple. cori that gives powerful cold symptom relief without raising your blood pressure. coricidin hbp.

levin: what the heck is this? ha! trump: these are magazine covers over the last 6 months, and i think 5 or 6 times on the cover of "time," and it's crazy. levin: so, what strikes me about this is there are some that are not even particularly flattering, but you've got them proudly displayed. trump: boy, i have a lot of them. some are not flattering, but they're there. levin: this must give you some gratification to see that you're on every magazine cover. trump: well, it doesn't. not all good stories. levin: is having the stories more important and relevant to you than-- trump: no, i'm not a believer in all publicity is good publicity. i think--i'm not a believer in that at all. a lot of people say i like that and i think it's great, but it's--it's not. levin: when you drive around

your city and you see your name on all these buildings, that must give you a real sense of satisfaction. trump: it does. i mean, i've always loved new york. it's special. and you know, to have done so well in this city is, like, to me, it's a great honor. there's something great about it. levin: there are people who say that this and the buildings and everything else is ego. to that you say what? trump: no, it's not ego. i love doing it. i just have fun. we have a period of time that we're on earth, and we like to do a good job, but i love doing it. i've had such an incredible time. i would've never thought that if i run for office, i was gonna end up with this. this is, by the way, a small sample of what's taken place. trump steaks are by far the best-tasting, most flavorful beef you've ever had. truly in a league of their own. man: "trump: the game." because it's not what you win or lose, it's whether you win. levin: that's ego. i mean, do you view ego as a bad thing? trump: no, i don't. i mean, i see a lot of people with ego. they're good people. they're bad

people. you know, you don't know. but i do see a lot of people that win have a big ego. levin: who are you? who's donald trump? trump: i mean, always a very tough question, but i'm somebody that likes to help people. i like to see things done right. but you know, above all, i want to make life good for a lot of people, not just myself. i don't want to--i've won so much. i've won enough for myself. i want to win for the country now. i hate seeing, harvey, what's happening to our country. levin: if you had to define yourself as a smart person, a savvy person, you know, a tenacious person, which of those most suits you in terms of who you are as a guy? trump: i mean, you know, look, i'm smart, i went to good schools, i did well, so, i guess i'm smart. i'm very tenacious. i won't give up, certainly, and never give up. i always tell people, "never, ever quit, never, ever give up, always do something you love." but, you know, never quit. never quit. you'd have so much more

success if people would just keep going. levin: even against odds. trump: even against odds. man: let's go back to [indistinct]. trump: i'm leaving for new hampshire. so, we won't be too much longer. i'm going up to do a speech in new hampshire now, so-- levin: today? trump: yeah. am i going? rona? rona: no, you have fallon next. trump: oh, i have jimmy fallon. are you gonna come with me? levin: to fallon? trump: yeah. jimmy fallon. i'm on--what time do i have to be there? oh, i'm not doing new hampshire today? rona: you are after fallon. trump: how about that for a schedule? levin: jesus. trump: harv, i'm gonna have to go after this one. can we--is this the last one? levin: no. trump: this is pretty intense. levin: ah, no, it's not. trump: how much--how much more do we-- levin: i need 45 minutes. it's an hour show. where am i standing, guys? trump: are you going over to fallon? levin: no. trump: are you friendly with him

at all or not? levin: i don't really know him. i mean... trump: let me get--i'll get on this side, maybe, if it's cool. that is the longest interview i have ever done in my life-- and intense. come here. levin: thank you so much. trump: believe me! >> previously on "legends and lies: the patriots"... >> my god. this is my army? you ask what i need, dr. franklin. i need everything, and i need it now, or this war will be over before it even begins. let us declare our independence. >> all men are created equal.