our factor words of the day. again, thanks for watching us tonight. ms. megyn is next. remember, the spin stops here. we're definitely looking out for you. >> breaking tonight, big headline from the campaign trail as a brawl breaks out at one rally. reports bubble up of republicans getting out and the two clear front runners in the gop race for the white house band together and threaten to boycott the big debate. welcome to "the kelly file" everyone, i'm megyn kelly. in a joint letter to the network hosting the next debate. if it does not change the debate format, than the two men will not participate. the letter reads, "neither of our campaigns reads to the length you proposed or your ban or opening and closing statements. in fact, neither of our

campaigns were even consulted. neither of those conditions are acceptable. reportedly, the campaigns of senators rand paul and jeb bush are also calling for changes. but so far, tonight, one republican candidate is not ahead. we will be joined live by carly fiorina whose campaign today said lack of endurance for the three hour debate speaks volumes. but first up, fox news contributor and former chief speech writer to former president george w. bush. so many of these kacandidates, but, in particular, carson and bush, are ticked off. about what, exactly? >> it went on, three hours of a debate. and, by the end, trump was kind of sleepy. and his -- he was a little lower energy.

and it was -- i was sleepy by the third hour. so i don't really blame any of the kant dats. that's a long time to try to do it. >> exactly. we were thinking thank god we didn't make the fox news debate three hours. >> of course. but if you want to ask everybody questions, they want to make it longer and these guys want to make it shorter. if you're trump and if you're carson, you don't want the debate, you don't need the debate. you're at top of the poll. you're not great at debates, maybe you're happy if you have to object. >> well, that's the question, mark. is it any accident that those two are saying we don't want that. and fiorina is saying why not? >> yeah, who's the good debater of the three? i mean, look, trump and carson have both had pretty bad debates in the first two outing. look at what donald trump's objections are. one, it's too long. two, i can't waste time with opening and closing statements. he's basically saying there's too much time to debate. so he doesn't want to debate. so i would be much more

impressed if his objection was, look, it's time to window the field a little bit. there's not enough time for us to have a good exchange. that would be a legitimate objection. he doesn't want to have more time for carly fiorina to fillet him the way she did in the last one. >> what is going to happen if neither shows up at this debate x chris? >> they'll find a waif to accommodate. >> cnbc will? >> i would imagine they will find some way. but why they had to do this in public, so doing it publicly is what tells me that both trump and carson would be more than okay with getting out of these debates. remember, the republican party changed the regime in order to try to protect a fabrejet egg. but now they find that the front runner is somebody who were subjected to debates, would be falling double. >> i've got the move onto this.

now there are reports today that ben carson, who is the front runner, according to some polls, and tied for first in others, is getting out of the race all together. the carson campaign tonight is furious over an abc report today that he was putting his campaign event on hold to promote his book. and he just come out with a statement on facebook calling this irresponsible and very rong wro wrong reporting saying nothing is on hold. >> this is trying to treat ben carson like a non-legitimate candidate. like he is not for real. so here you have i believe it was abc news with the initial report. they come out and say this guy is just a joke. when it's clear that they make it very clear. there will be no co-mingling for legal reasons.

why on earth would you do that? nonsense. but there are other reports about rand paul possibly getting out of the race. and they led to somebody who was doing this live streaming event yesterday. where cameras followed him all through iowa. he just took everybody through his entire day. and he got to answer some questions that were being offered to him. and we apologize for some of the language. but here's what he said. >> the third question, most popular question, from google is rand paul still running for president and i don't know, we wouldn't be doing this if i

weren't. but, yes, i still am running for president. get over it. >> where is rand paul? this isn't live. we can't edit this, right? >> right. but it's available. mark, rand paul. likely to get out? >> yep. we better have opening statements in the debate so he can stand there and say who am i? why am i here? that's what he's basically saying. first of all, it's obviously pretty bad when you have to stand in flont of the american people in the live stream and say people are asking. are you still running? that's not a sign of success. and this is a guy who, unfortunately, the rationale of his campaign has disappeared with the rise of isis. nobody is looking for an isolationist libertarian yan. >> he doesn't like live stream. and doesn't find an intelligent way of communicating his messagement great to see you. >> well, carly fiorina is taking

shots for threatening to boycott this debate. here next to explain why. and then, president obama has said repeatedly that the war in afghanistan is over. we're out. everyone is coming home. until he said something very different today. serving two tours there, he'll tell us what's behind this news. police, in the 2014 election cycle, the democrats attacking two private sit sens. charles coke, just ahead. >> do you believe that the democrats have tried to ♪ our parents worked hard so that we could enjoy life's simple pleasures.

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. breaking tonight, the only republican woman running for president shows today she's not afraid to throw a few sharp elbows. the lodge amount of time planned for the next gop debate, as we just discussed. carlie fiorina throws a virtual grenade at three big gop competitors. seechls jeb bush isn't the only low-energy guy. joining me now, the former ceo

of hewlett-packard. great to see you tonight. so what's your take on these gentlem gentlemen's objections to the cnbc debate? >> well, i think aparentally they're worried about answering questions for three hours. for help sakes, we have ten candidates on the stage. i don't think three hours is a long time. i think the ame really like them. and we ought to stand and answer as many questions as we can. they also apparently ask for prepared statements. prepared statements are what politicians do. so, honestly, you're two outsiders, honestly, they sound a lot like politicians tonight to me. in their defense, don't you think that cnn debate was a little long. three hour sns don't you get tired at all by the end?

well, yeah, three hours is a long time. i think it's quite important. the cnn democrat debate was two hours. >> i saw your written statement. you said it's a different thing if hillary clinton has to go up with you. it's what i've been hearing for months and mons. of course, she lied about both. she lied about benghazi, i mean, honestly, when she knew it was a per possibleful attack. she, never the less, faced the

next morning and talked about a video. instead of saying this was a purposeful, pre-planned terrorist attack and we will secret ro bugs. but i also found it kind of amusing. that hillary claimed she was an outsider because she was a woman. no, she's not an outsider. but i think what we can expect her to do is play that gender card other and other and other. >> now, speaking of women and gender, some of them critical of you. and i cop fess i made comments about this earlier this week myself. whether you need to be warmer in order to connect better with the voters. and i said publicly at this women's conference. i checked myself. is this sexist? and i tell you, i would that i think any political candidate needs to connect with an all yenls. we did a long bio on you. we had a wonderful family story. do you think that is a fair

criticism? that prafs you could do a better job of connecting on a personal level with viewers and voters? >> well, you know, in that debate, megyn, the vast majority of viewers thagt i won it. so i clearly connected. i'm here in iowa. and i just i think you're wrong when i say i'm not connecting with voters. i think that's why my candidacy is rising. i also think this. there is a time to smile. and there is a time to be serious. and when you're talking about isis, it's time to smile. when you're talking about the death of your -- when you're talking about the death of your daughter, it's not a time to smile.

>> i didn't suggest -- >> but those were the questions getting asked. this is a picture of you and your daughters, you know, in the bathtub chrks is great. and you see this mother and you see the love. you know, a loft of us have seen this side of you. but we've also seen is you're slipping in the polls x even though you skyrocketed after the cnn debate. you were way the heck up there. now you're back down. we have a chart that shows, to where you were before even the fox debate. so folks have been asking why? why is that? why do you think it is? >> well, actually, i don't agree with the premise of your question. i'm number two in new hampshire today, i'm number three in iowa. >> on the national poll you're not. >> in the places where primaries are going to happen. you and i have discussed,

there's lots of problems with polls, frankly. that's something that we discussed many times. the national polls. people are going to go up and down. what i think is important to understand is in the state poll where the primaries are going to be held. i am a clear front runner. and it's also true that we still have about 40% of the american voters, republican primary voters, who say they don't know anything about me. that's in the fox news poll. so i'm actually very happy with where i am. i think we're going to continue to rise in the polls. as more and more americans get to know who i am and what my story is. we will do most importantly as president of the united states. >> we'll post that package that we did on you on our facebook page so noeks can see a bit about your background. >> that would be fantastic, thank you. thanks, megy nvrks.

>> also new tonight, a fallout from the presidency dealing with headaches. the draw down of troops in afghanistan will not happen the waif he promised so many times. there are 9800 troops currently stationed there. just a thousand would remain to protect our embassy. it's a plan that we've been hearing about for years. and what he said would not change. period. >> together with our allies, we will complete our mission there by the end of this year and america's longest war will finally be over. tonight, our combat mission in afghanistan is over. >> the date for us to have depleted our draw down will not change. >> but, today, it did change. a lot.

as the commander in chief promised that all of those troops will likely have to stay. >> i've decided to maintain our posture of 9800 troops through most of next year, 2016. but maintaining our current posture through most of next year rather than a more rapid drawdown will allow us to sustain our efforts. colonel, good to see you tonight. this is an admission by president obama, admission of what? >> admission that he's planning to abandon afghanistan. let's be clear here. the basic reality, what she faces, is one where the taliban, as much as he does not like them in the current circumstances. what's happening is that he recognizes that as much as he wants to walk away, he cannot.

the taliban have been making huge gains. if we don't stop them now, they will continue to gain power. i think frankly, to be a bit political, this is a mission that made the wrong decision regarding iraq. >> what finally did it? the military has been saying your plan isn't going to work. >> i think two things, first, general campbell, he's doing a great job. he's doing what's necessary the right way at the right time. also, we just saw a major change at the pentagon. he's made changes already. he dumped off the 500 million dollar so-called syrian rebel

training program. and this is another change. look, i've heard that the white house did not want this. the white house was fighting this tooth and nail. the key is that the reality we face is simply if we abandon afghanistan the way we did iraq, you will see chaos and safe havens instantly pop up. the worst problem is the idea of having afghanistan grow. >> is this enough? did he have the numbers right? >> yes, as a matter of fact, we are correct. by putting a hundred thousand troops there, we're just in the way. we're going back the way we were winning. we need to do one thing very well. kill the bad guys and allow for the political process and the afghan government to happen. we need to oversee that, not

force it. so our job now, schismly, is to make sure that we kill the bad guys when we find them. and then do what's necessary to protect the american people. period. >> great to see you, thank you, sir. >> up next, a high school scuffle blows up into a brawl with police. the entire thing caught on camera and, mark, next on the legal complaints we are already hearing about excessive force. and then, charles coke took a flungling oil company and turn t ted it into one of the biggest firm ins america and became target number one in the process. now, after years of largely ignoring attacks from the left, he larkly breaks his silence. harry reid, your brother david pointed out, mentioned the coke

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developing tonight, a new claim of excessive force against police.

that officer wound up grabbing the man's 14-year-old son by the neck, dropping the boy to the floor and the whole thing was caught on camera. watch carefully. >> joining me now, criminal defense attorney mark igloss. so this father of the boy wants the cop charged criminally and says this is an example of excess fif force against a 14-year-old boy over goggles, sport goggles. it wasn't like someone's got a gun, let's get the kid down. >> first of all, as a father of three children, one of them being a teenager around that same age, i would be irate if a police officer did that to my son. however, if we're analyzing this objectively, i am 100% certain,

beyond all doubt that i don't know exactly what happened. there's no audio tape. if you believe what the officers are saying, this kid was determined to go back and continue the fight with another teenager. watch. right there. see, and then the cop takes him down. if you could just rerack it. you eve got to start it from the beginning. and then the kid tries to knock the cop's arm away. that's when the cop steps in and takes him down. the police are going to argue that, again, we're not starting it at the right spot, see, again. right there. the police are going to argue that he was resisting arrest and that he was going to cause more mayhem. would that do it? would that justify it here? >> it's a fact sensitive made bid jurors. this is in texas.

they're slightly conservative and slightly supportive of police officers like bill ore o'reilly is slightly opinionated. this will give them wide latitude. >> the kid was suspended for a couple of days for the fight that he had. the cop is under investigation and the incident is under review. thaw say they repeatedly tried to stop him and they detained him for his safety as well as the safety of others. >> when we fwot the incredible rare chance to speak with charles coke, how et feels to be publicly criticized by the president of the united states. but we also wanted to know how you build $110 billion company. some amazing advice. everyone needs to hear, next.

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really. free. fist bump. charles coke is the fifth richest man in the country. one of the most success men in the world. yet, his very name has almost become code for some on the left for what they believe is wrong with big money in politics. 53,0 0 attack ads hit him in just the last election cycle. personal attacked launched against him from the highest levels of government. tonight, in a cable exclusive, we produce you to the man few really know. we'll tack the myths and find out how charles coke goes unreported.

everyone personal savety, to, in his words, make the country better for everyone. >> charles coke, captain of industry, innovator and some say gop king maker, kwh has made him a target of the democrats for years. >> what is un-american is when shadowy billionaires pour unlimited money into our democracy to rig the system to benefit themselves and the wealthiest 1%. >> they don't care what anybody says, kpept for themselves and the corporate masters like the coke brothers. they have one master and that's money. >> when people hear the name, coke brother, it has a negative con notation. >> i will stand up to all the attacks from the supper pacs and the coke brothers every chance i get. >> even president obama has joined in.

when you start seeing massive lobbying efforts backed by fossil fuel interests or think tanks or the coke brothers, that's a problem. >> the coke brothers donate to republicans and rescind fossil fuels. they own pipelines and lots of successful products you likely know very well. >> coke grew up in wichita, kansas. the son of fred coke who struck it rich in the oil business. they've raised two children and appear devoted to one another. chaurms eventually took over his father's business and grew it into the second largest private firm in america. the company, worth $21 million in 1961 is now worth $100 billion. charles and david have donated hundreds of millions to help

fight cancer, poverty and to encourage entrepreneurship in addition to their political donations. so how exactly did charles coke, a man demonized by the president, the majority leader and minority leader become so feared and so successful. for the first time, he tells us fromomomomomomom his home in wid up a little, thanks to foot surgery and wearing a cast decorated by his wife, ready to talk about life, politics and his book, good profit. >> so your book reads to me like a love letter. how big of an influence was he. >> my father's influence came from -- he decided well, probably before we were born that as he put it, i'm not going to have any kids who are country

club bums. >> he worked you. >> he wanted to instill the work ethic. and, because he knew if you don't learn to work to be more productive to improve your efficiency, to cooperate with other people at an early age, you may never learn those habits. so you can't make a contribution, you can't be successful. then, years later, when i asked my father, i said pop, why were you so much harder on me than my younger brothers? he said, son, you plum wore me out. >> later, koch kept up the hard work landing at the prestigious m.i.t. >> he feel was such a disciplinarian growing up, i had no idea i would do that. >> but things changed. >> he called me. he said, son, my health is not good. i don't have that long to live.

either you come back to run the company or i'm going to have to sell it. >> tell us about the first piece of advice that you dad gave you when you took over as ceo. >> his first word when i arrived is, son, i hope your first deal is a loser, otherwise, you'll think you're a lot smarter than you are. but he has tremendous values, tremendous integrity,humility, work ethic and terrific thirst for knowledge. >> you warn in the book about the trap of overconfidence, in a business and a person? >> oh, absolutely. yeah. human beingerous is just one step closer to loss of integrity. if you know better you're going to think, as many leaders have, that the rules don't apply to them. >> his new book, good profit, emphasizes integrity.

it's fine to make lots of money. but how you do it matters. >> you say you've always prized values over talent in your hiring decision. really? >> absolutely. i've had the philosophy that john adams expressed that this is a system for moral people. it will work for no other. >> you're telling me some hot shot salesman from new york can come down, top of his game, sure, he may bend the rules here or there, but he's a prodooser. you won't higher that guy? >> no, absolutely not. in our interview process, that's what we look for. >> how do you figure out someone's value, their integrity, in a job interview. >> we put the candidate in different situations. like we have somebody that the candidate doesn't think is important, we take him down to the cafeteria, we see how the

candidate treats that person, we see how they treat the staff at the cafeteria. and we see how they answer questions. we ask them, gosh, did you have any problems? did you make any mistakes? if they say oh, no, but the company was so screwed up and they wouldn't listen to me. >> what about the ability to make mistakes. >> they don't have any humility and probably don't have any integrity. >> humility in hiring also served koch well. >> we find we do better from community colleges, from rural colleges, like after i was president of koch industrieindu our next president were -- well, one didn't graduate from college. and the current president is from state. >> at koch industry, even you get evaluated. is that true? >> that's true.

>> how does that work? >> that works great. i learn a lot. >> right-hand tuaren't you afra bruised ego? >> no, here's the thing. i think all of us need this attitude. do you want to have your feelings hurt a little bit because you have some negative feedback. or do you want to continue down the disastrous track you're on and have a huge disaster? talk about a bruised ego. it may ruin your career. >> is it true that any employee at koch can earn more than his boss? >> oh, abshutly. we try to warn people according to the value they create. >> and you will hire based on talent? even if you don't have an open spot, necessarily? >> on values, yeah. >> how can you hold to a budget under those circumstances? >> well, we're not big on budgets. >> the other message you want to

send your employee is try new things. don't be afraid to fail or make mistakes. >> if you never failed, then you're probably not doing very much. you're certainly not innovating. you're not improving. the only way you improve is to try new things. >> what if you're a big success and you don't want to risk it? >> that's one of my principles. success is one oeft worst enemies of success. success tends to breed kbla sen sill and lack of humility. >> when companies aren't successful, koch says uncle sam should stay out of it, dismissing government subsidies, loans and tariffs as corporate welfare. >> well, corporate welfare, i think, is a disaster for this country. it's crippling our economy. it eets contributing to a permanent underclass and corrupting the business community. >> critics say what the kochs

really oppose is government assistance that can hurt koch's bottom line. >> we oppose all corporate welfare, whether we ben fete or not. you will find that our policy position mainly hurt our profitability rather than help it. >> what about china? you've heard donald trump talk repeatedly about how they're de1r58ing current sill and the next president need to put a stop to that by perhaps imposing a tariff on their goods. >> well, i mean, tariffs are a disaster. the way -- the principle way that human beings had gotten out of extreme poverty is free trade. >> when we return, charles koch addresses the attack from the left, the death threats and why he is still working so hard at the age of 79. don't go away. not long ago, president obama himself came out and attacked you.

it's not the first time, but he said that the koch brothers are trying to prevent new clean energy businesses from succeeding. you came out, and, in a rare public statement, said you were flabbergasted by that accusation. why? it takes a lot of work... to run this business. but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals,

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the kochs are behind a number of action groups including president obama. not long ago, president obama himself came out and attacked you. it's not the first time x but he said that the koch brothers are trying to prevent new clean energy businesses from succeeded. you came out, and, in a rare public statement, said you were flabbergasted by that accusation. why? >> because the opposite is true. all of our policies are based on whether it will make -- enable people to improve their lives or make their lives worse. >> beneath the dignity of the office? >> i think it is to misrepresent what a company stands for and attacking private citizens for trying to help people improve their lives. >> do you believe that the democrats including the president have tried to make

boogey men out of you and your brother david? >> oh, definitely. that's a full time job on their part. i mean -- and that's why i've never been that fond of politics and only got into it recently kicking and screaming. i don't think politics are going to reverse the trajectory of this country. i think it's going to be the american people understanding what is fair and what makes our lives better. >> why do you think they've been so relentless in their attacks. harry reid, your brother david pointed out, mentioned the koch brothers 279 times. they have painted you as evil. the white house actually put you on an enemy's list back in the 2012 campaign. 2012 campaign. >> well, i mean that's very sad that -- that's what we've come

to. because in fact what we're trying to do is the opposite. >> is it dangerous? i know you've gotten death threats. >> i get a lot of death threats but the way i look at it, i feel i have a moral obligation to do the best i can to make the country better for everybody everybody. and that threatens certain people because they're going to have much less power. i want the power to go back to people making decisions over their own lives rather than some experts making. >> are you a libertarian? >> no. i'm -- i have been a libertarian in my past but now i consider myself a classical liberal. >> lassical liberal. what's that mean? >> classical liberal is someone who wants a society that maximizes peace, civility, tolerance and well being for everyone. one that opens opportunities for

everyone to advance themselves. >> koch didn't want to reveal his opinions on individual candidates. but we tried. so the "l" word will have people asking is he going to vote for hillary clinton? >> well, i mean putting aside all the things that are said about hillary today, my main difference with her is on the vision of what kind of society will make people's lives better. so this is a vision of society in which people are too evil or stupid to run their own lives but those in power are perfectly capable of running everybody else's lives because they're so much smarter. it's what i call the fatal conceit or william easterly called the tyranny of experts because that's what it is, it is tyranny. >> this discussion will now have people thinking, ah-ha, he likes rand paul. he has libertarian leanings. he wants government out of our

lives. is rand your guy? >> no, i don't have a guy. i have these principles and what i'm trying to accomplish, and what we need to me is a candidate that will help change the trajectory of the country from all this wasteful, irresponsible spending that's heading us for a financial cliff, not just by the democrats but by the republicans. the reason we tend to support republicans is they're taking us toward the cliff at only 70 miles per ho miles an hour and the democrats are taking us 100 miles an hour. >> as for the democrats' charge that koch's donor network is shady -- >> everything i give is pretty much public.

now not every donor wants to -- or is willing to get the kind of abuse and attacks that we do, or death threats, so they're not willing to have their names out. i think the other side is pushing for that because they want to intimidate people so they won't oppose it. >> reporter: but charles koch is not intimidated. and not slowing down any time soon. at 79 years old, you still work nine hours a day. you come home and have dinner with liz. then you work again. >> thank you so much. >> why? why do you is it ill work so hard? >> because i feel a passion for what we're trying to do. i mean why does somebody who's a writer keep writing? because that's who they are. that's their nature. and to be happy you have to fulfill your nature. that's what aristotle taught so many centuries ago, that the

road to happiness isn't to go drink more or consume more. road to happiness is fully develop your abilities, and then apply them to do good. >> reporter: and speaking of happiness, koch's father left his sons a bit of money upon his death. along with one final piece of advice. >> if you choose to let this money destroy your initiative and independence, then it will be a curse to you and my action in giving it to you will have been a mistake. i shall regret very much to have you miss the glorious feeling of accomplishment. remember that often adversity is a blessing in disguise and is certainly the greatest character builder. that's tough. >> the glorious feeling of accomplishment. >> yeah. >> charles koch, thank you. >> well, thank

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getting lots of feedback online with charles koch, like this one -- such a disappointing lack of evilness! imagine that. what did youininininink? thanks for watching. this is ""the kelly file."" tonight -- this is the secretary of state, one of the most targeted individuals by other intelligence agencies and entities in the world using a private server. >> former government employees are speaking out over the major double standard in hillary clinton's server scandal. so why does clinton get to play by her own set of rules? >> they just couldn't give things away fast enough. they're giving them to illegal immigrants. >> then, donald trump rips democrats for offering free stuff to illegal immigrants. >> the time to fix america is now. not tomorrow. but right now. and, ohio governor john kasich joins us to unveil his pl