>> tonight, champions of freedom, who else, who has made a difference. >> george washington. >> abraham lincoln, can't think of any. >> stossel: how about the head of a big bank, and told the government, he'll be here and so will steve forbes, and a limited flat tax, will that make him a champion. >> show me the money! >> and one argues that this and other movies educate us about freedom. and the author of this comic book will tell the story of lady of liberty. and finally tonight, a champion who put chains on

entrepreneur. >> making it harder for the entrepreneurs to start and grow small businesses. >> yes, someone, please, get these off my back. tonight, the champions of freedom. freedom. [applaus [applause] >> john stossel. . >> whoo, whoo! >> the author, an economist hayek warned the world europe was on the road to serfdom. now america is halfway there, and bound by chains of petty laws and regulations. who then are the champions of freedom to free us from that, politicians? when we asked people for champions of freedom. many gave examples like these? >> obama. >> and-- >> i would say clinton. >> well, to be fair, president

clinton did sign welfare reform and jfk cut income tacks and president obama says he's going to do away with overregulation, i'll believe that when we see it. in any case, i don't see most politicians as champions of liberties. if anything they take away liberty. pass rules that make it harder for us to live a free life. and these republicans give us rules, too, when i think of freedom i think of entrepreneurs, businessmen and scientists and artists that invent things that free us from material wants, and free our minds. and with that thought, we start the night with two entrepreneurs who fight for freedom, steve forbes, of forbes magazine, and john alison chairman of one of the biggest banks in america. on this show we talk about providing people the power to prosper, but, john, i'll start with you, some people would say you bankers don't give people that, you just move money around and grab a big

piece for yourself. >> if i can use a healthy economy what about allocating capital to people who deserve it. and we see a problem in the banking system and allocating capital and-- >> i include you as a fighter for freedom, because when the bailouts came, you said, we don't want this money and you spoke against it. few bankers did. >> that's true. i actively lobbied congress not to approve the tarp, the bailout program, and it was a tough exercise in that only the ceo of a large bargaining to tarp-- >> how did it work? the regulator called up and said-- >> well, i wrote congress. i was supposed to be the tarp path. we got a call from primary regulator. we were one of the largest banks in america, he said you have way more capital than you need by our standards and we decide today change the capital standards, and under the new capital standards we

don't know what they are, we don't think you'll have enough money unless you take tarp and the implied, implication says we're going to come and see you you soon and if you don't take tarp, you're going to be trouble and we make up the rules. we ended up taking tarp. and what's interesting, john. why did they want us to take tarp? head of the federal reserve, bernanke, one of the students of the depression. >> stossel: during the depression, when it was known that the bank was taking money. >> he had three banks going to fail and needed the healthy banks to make it look good. it was a ripoff for the banks ab we never had a single quarterly loss and stress stes, you've got way more capital. >> you've been more outspoke been freedom and you started doing this after you read a book called capitalism, the

unknown ideal, and this opened your brain? >> it did. and a huge influence on my thinking. in fact, interesting story, one reason we didn't get in trouble in subprime lending was because of our philosophy. and a lot, it's strange, but a lot of people see greed on uawed -- leading to subprime lending. making affordable housing loans was a good thing. >> and government policy, fannie and freddie guaranteeing all of these loans and the government encouraging you to lend to people who might have risky credit? >> the banks were under the moral pressure, not just making money to do it, but the right thing to do and i realized it was the wrong thing to do. it was the redistribution from productive people to nonproductive people and it was going to end badly for that reason so we resisted as much as we possibly could, because we realized it was the wrong thing to do and also you

will not loan money to developers that use eminent domain to grab property. when the decision was passed and there was carte blanche, to give to some other private individual. we said we wouldn't make loans to developers that did that and interestingly enough, john, we lost the public accounts and they liked it, but we had thousands of people move their checking accounts to bb and t. you wouldn't expect. they said look, eminent domain is wrong and also it's important for businesses to stay. >> and with that in mind, let me turn to steve forbes, the model of the magazine, capitalist tool and i think a lot of people are saying, why are you calling him up? hero of freedom. he's just another greedy guy helping rich people get rich. >> no, we're helping the people who start with little to get rich and give them the tools to move up. my grandfather started this magazine within the first issue pointing out the purpose of business is not to pile up money, but to create happiness, giving people a

chance to discover their talents and develop their talents and it's the best poverty fighter in the world, great enterprise, enabling people to come out of nowhere and create things we didn't know we needed. take the ipod. he said ipod 12 years ago, people would have thought a remake of the movie from the 50's, the pod people and now it's another instrument we can't live without. that's what moves us ahead, people meeting the needs of other people. even if you lust for money, the hollywood caricature, you won't get it unless you buy something somebody else wants or needs. >> you can't use force, unlike government. >> aen what john was describing is an example of how government turns you into crony capital lists, they force you to in effect, go into their embrace and when things go wrong, they blame you, not themselves. >> so, you're endorsing rick perry for president because he supports a flat tax you have fought for and some people say he's a hero of freedom,

because he wants a flat tax, some people say it would ep had rich people more. >> no, but more importantly, john, reduces the price of risk taking, reduces the price of success and productive work and that way, you create more jobs, and it enables people with little to get ahead. when you have a stagnant economy, that's what holds people back and people have little and can't get ahead. >> let's add the part when you're talking about freedom. right now the average american spends more than a day, 26 1/2 hours filling out tax forms during the year, freedom-- >> and you've got last year, we spent six and a half billion hours felling out tax forms, equivalent of 3 million full-time jobs just on a stupid code not even the irs knows what is it. you don't have to go to the amazon to find exotic creatures, they're crawling around here today.

500 times last year. crazy. >> that is crazy. but let me be contrarian here. you guys are both absurdly rich and here we are-- >> i don't think so. my kids don't think so. >> as champions or perceived certainly by the protesters out there as that rich. how are you championing -- how can rich people be champions of freedom? john, i'll go to you first. >> well, john, i think i earned the money i had. when i started working for bb and t, a small bank, made 600 a month. >> we have a graphic, let' put it up. when you started. >> 4 1/2 billion dollars, and during my career as ceo, 4 1/2 billion to 152 billion dollars. >> look at the wealth you created. >> 31,000 employees when i started-- >> jobs you created. >> and what's interesting, john, rich people think that rich people had their money, i don't know, sitting around

somewhere. my money is totally invested. without the capital of people like me and steve forbes, businesses couldn't operate. so i've earned the money and invested it to create more wealth and more jobs and i think that's, take billionaires on our list, they're not sitting like scrooge mcduck in the money bin sitting on cash. they're putting that capital to work and who would you trust putting it to work, warren buffett, despite his political views, or the federal government? bureaucrats. i'll trust people who know how to create wealth and jobs and opportunities more than a bureaucrat who responds to politics not the needs of the marketplace, which is people, markets are people, keep that in mind. [applause] >> and both of you-- like that. both of you have money you invest in politics. you're on the list of top ten givers to politicians and you fought for what you believe in and now trying to speed the ideas of ian rand. >> i'm a extren extreme of randd

authors defending free market ideas on university campuses, and it's a very important endeavor, i think, look at what happened to america, how we got from life, liberty and pursuit of happiness and redistribution. and they took over our elite universities and we need the ideas that made america great in the first place back in our campuses. >> ian rand would say about disparity. it's a byproduct of freedom. some will do better than others. but this makes people uncomfortable. >> it makes people uncomfortable when you have a stagnant economy which because of government created crisis, where people think, feel things are not fair, that's what happens when you trash the money, undermines the bond between effort and reward.

when you have a vibrant economy people don't want to know what bill gates makes. and do i have an opportunity to increase, as abraham lincoln put it, my lot in life. if a-rod, rodriguez on the yankees get 25 million a year, he performs great. if not. too bad for the yankees fans and yankees, that's too bad. you're taking a risk and that's how you move ahead. failures are not all failures as we know, it's what you learn from the failures that enables progress in the future. >> thank you, steve forbes and john alison, they've agreed to stick around and answer questions from you in the studio audience. and even though hollywood is a liberalism, our next guest say some movies unintentionally celebrate liberty. [applause]

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(applaus (applause) >> all right. tonight, you hear them applauding. it's filled with libertarian activists from around the world. for example, take tanya, runs a think tank in lithuania. leona runs a think tank in russia. they're all here for the conference of a group called the atlas economic research foundation, it's the international version of groups that you are more likely to know about. the heartland institute, and these folks fight for liberty in 80 countries. so, you are champions of freedom and we thank you for that. [applaus [applause] >> and now, let's turn to one of your senior fellows. deroy murdoch, he expanded my

brain and some champions of freedom i hadn't considered. movie makers. you say even though hollywood is stuffed with liberals, they unintentionally celebrate freedom. >> some of them do. i think some share the ideas that you and audience and others unintentionally provide us the language that we can use in freedom. >> john: let's start with evita, the true story of the former argentinian dictator's wife. there's a lesson in this clip ♪ the money kept rolling down and the poor and the weak ♪ >> evita created a charity that took money from taxpayers and then gave out lots of free stuff, bread, pots and pans, soccer balls. one scene shows her throwing money at people. ♪ money, money, money >> eventually the money ran out and people got angry.

>> all right, but this is, that was madonna playing evita. by the way. this is a music cal, a celebration of liberty? >> well, it is. i think a lot of people like we do, didn't see this movie, madonna is in it and a tribute to evaeta. the opposite. the movie makes excellent point, power corrupts, and not good to have a personality, look here is what happens when you spend too much money and debauch your currency and this movie could have been written by the cato institute and it does it with singing and dancing and costume changes, i think a piece of work. >> john: i'll go rent it. next on your list the recent movie the ides of march which surprises me, this is filled with liberal sillness. >> i heard the comment that basically liberals like the first movie and libertarians

the second half. george clooney, i think governor of pennsylvania, running for president and wants a mandatory program and cap and trade. >> john: it's just presented, i saw this movie, oh, yes, of course, right thinking people want mandatory public service, we're going to outlaw the internal comustion engine in ten years. >> that's right. ryan gosling is a young campaign media strategist and totally in love with this particular candidate and is working hard for him and it's not too much in the movie because it's still in the theater and shows that this man is not the heroic decent upstanding citizen he is aen gosling has a changed of heart and realized his politician turns out to be not a great guy after all. >> john: good message. >> beware of putting your faith in politicians, they'll often disappoint you. >> john: a good message. you also pick jerry mcguire, a sports agent who starts a new

firm and wins over renee zellweger. >> show me the money, show me the money! >> so how does it celebrate liberty? >> i think it's a great picture of a guy who gets fired from the company and rather than go to the eeoc and walks out of here, with the laptop, roledex with one client, cuba gooding, jr. and succeeds in business and love as well. a great example of individual opportunity of picking yourself up and not whining and complaining, but going out and making a difference. >> john: i don't suppose the movie makers really understand how regulation that they cheer on makes it tougher for someone to start his own firm and get through the sarbanes oxley. i guess-- >> i think that was pre-sarbanes oxley. >> john: it was worth it just for the line "you complete me." . thank you deroy murdoch and the atlas foundation and i

should add that other argue, are liberty. brave heart, 1984, enemy of the state, south park, actually. and v for vendetta. the tag line was, people shouldn't fear their government. government should fear their people. up next, ladies of liberty. a new book celebrates them. [applause].

[applause] >> when we look at images that depict the founding of america, we have a few here. one thing is consistent. most every picture and person is male. where were you the women?

did they do anything to help with independence? yes, they did. author of ladies for liberty. and a new book that celebrate 20 american women who fount for women. you are a british guy and you are writing about american women. >> five years ago, i wrote this book margaret thatcher, portrait of the iron lady and that led to a lot of speaking engagements in the united states and i am shocked how many of those people say what a pity we never had a margaret thatcher in our history. wait, american history is stuffed with great women. far more than in the world. >> i am ignoran, too. i didn't know our history was toughed with great women. mercy otis warren.

>> she was named as the conscience of the american revolution. she wrote great plays and poems and helped with correspondance. it was the e-mail of the 1760s and 17cents and kept all of the revolutionaries in touch and that idea was hatched by her and her male friends in the front room. >> that helped us to overthrow your ancestors. the well connected and lived a life of luxury in charleston but they thought it was immoral for a human being to own another human being. they moved from philadelphia to boston and brilliance in the abolitionist.

>> they led a group of women to vote. they were not counted 50 years before the 19th amendment. and bwest miller. >> she was one of my favorites. she invented life insurance for women and within years hundreds of women were insured. >> madame cj. walker. >> she was born in the south and free and just. and she developed hat products for black women and the first woman in the history of the world to make a million dollars without a history, erinheritance or government issuing a license. she enfranchised thousands of black women selling the black beauty prucks and made six times what they were previously making as maids and washer mense . >> laura ingles wilder and her

daughter. >> from little house of the prairie books and that was a huge success on tv and president reagan's favorite tv show. >> taylor caldwell. >> great novelist. her noveles are so big hollywood couldn't digest them and virtually everyone of her noveles was auctioned and they led to the invention of the tv miniseries all of which emphasize liberty and individual freedom. >> she's talked about personal and the budget should be balance treasury refill public debt reduced and the arrogance of the generals should be controlled. >> there is more in the paragraph.

>> bring on the woman who wrote the forward. nicky mealy is president of the group of independence forum. you wrote in the forward. self determination is a virtue and individuals should be allowed to pursue their own ends free from coercion. that's not what we hear from the feminist movement. >> i consider that an insult. in my mind that is not feminism. that should be empower not dependent on a husband father and government. >> had you known about the women in john's book. >> i didn't know about most of them. they all did great things without uncle sam's help and in my mind pushes back the nancy pelosi narratives that we need the hand of government to give us a leg up. >> why has that dominated the

feminist movement in america? >> i am not sure. we hear from senator gilibrand that all of these programs that women care about are on the chopping that presupposes that health care and education can only be provided by the government. that is ridiculous. and presupposes that there is something on the chopping block which there never really is. who are the female heroes of freedom. ginny beth martin from tea party. and they have done a great job. and entrepreneurism . woman who did work creator of bone marrow transplants and the woman who created imno suppression therapy that you can do transplants. they are all woman. woman made tremendous contribution and haven't

needed the hand of government to do so. >> coming up, a champion of freedom that celebrates himself to the tune of the magnificent 7.

i am the right for free

speech. i j my kids got excellent education. >> i jay and how did those people get help why is that the seattle bagel king. chip miller and the institute for justice and his organization produced this video. our business is to sue at all levels. they trample on the american folks who live the american dream. we believe it is important to

change the world and have fun doing it. >> what you do is serious. let's start talking about cases. if you want to visit beautiful lake shalon add an extra day to your travel. >> only government licensed ferry. runs the ferry in the same direction at the same time. private investors proposed adding a ferry in the other direction. but the government banned them from doing so. why would the government ban them. >> one in 20 required a license for government before you engage in that occupation. they are faced with government creating a monopoly. and the clients want to

provide a service that compete in the market. >> governments are most well intended when they pass the law. they want a orderly market place and if anyone run a ferry they will smash in to each other. one company laying it. >> there is always an excuse that has a legitimacy sounding to it. but powerful interest create cartels to protect them from competition. it is true in the ferry business and hair braiders and taxicabs and computer repair man. you have a lot of wins and most famous loss is the kilo case. >> that was a tragic loss. they took private property to create it with government use

for higher taxings. >> she was forced to move and the neighborhood destroyed and in their place they built nothing. it is not enough to go to court. and in response 43 states passed a legal change. the key acess to public interest litigation and it is not enough and it is enough to educate government. we lost the battle but won the war. people were so outraged and what that opened the door for, for other americans and this week. it is not 43 states.

it is 44. what is your biggest victory. it is not one or two cases that are our biggest victory. it is demonstrating that the kind of public we practice. the libitarian approach. it is really a powerful tool for doing just that and the track record speaks for itself. that is a big success. >> no one talks about the economic liberty in the supreme court and steven bryer rules against it. >> it is changed in the 20 years. in 1991, economic liberty was not a turn. anyone but obscure libitarian academics talked about. and now it is it part of the legal discussion. it is associated with school choice and imminent do main

abuse was not talked about at all . now that is a subject of outrage in the country. we played a hand in all of that and elevating it to national prominence. thank you, chip miller. my picks for champions of freedom . next, the audience weighs in on facebook. who are today's living h

and troy mur dolldock of the atlas research foundation and institute for justice president chip miller. who is first here? yes, ma'am from the think tank

in lithe wana. it is something that is in human nature. we have more by create multiplying money out of thin air. how bad does it get for the politician to return to the gold standard. >> let's explain that to the nonpolicy people in the audience. that means money is worth what it said it is worth. >> manna from heaven. money comes from you doing transactions from each other. days of old it was barter. when the government gets involved they decide what you get in return. a bottle of wine for the loaves of bed. government lowers. people don't get to earn and

keep. standard of living is creating a crisis. it is like minute in a hour. imagine if they did to the hour what they did to money. you have to have hedges and future to figure out how many you were working. new york hour or bangladesh. steady value works and 60 minutes an hour . certain amount of gold behind the dollar. we had it for decade and go back to what workings. >> people say why gold? we have had growth since we got rid of the gold standard. >> it is just a metal. >> gold is not destroyed. it has raul because it is not too much out there. it is most perfect thing in our imperfect wormed. like the north star. what do you trust gold or

politicians. i don't think it is a contest. >> yes, sir. >> my question to the board. >> where are you from. >> i am will from france. in a tax oppression. this taxation and burden of taxation lighter become a act of herorism for a champion of freedom. >> i think that is true. i think you are to save money to pay for police and courts but not such a heavy burden it makes it impossible for people to do business and people get fed up and leave. >> here in new york it is so high people have gone to florida where there is no state income tax. it is reasonable to lower. >> is it heroic to evade taxes. >> there is a difference

between evasion and illegal and avoidance. a tax attorney can tell you. >> moving to a different state is a heroic act. >> i wish companies would do when they leave a high tech state california and go to texas. taxes are too high . they leave quietly at night . to be more vokal about it politicians is costing us jobs and revenues. >> and more publicication of polls and so businesses in california would you pick california or move somewhere else? most businesses say they wish they were in another state. that needs to get out there. >> it would be heroic if more business people speak out. with the exception of these two gentleman. they don't want to get in

trouble with the -- >> you are in an environment can do immense harm. they force you to be complicint. like capone in chicago you go against it you might find yourself in the hens. >> the department of the justice said we are investigating the thingings that you are doing. that sent a signal to the ratings agency. and watch and behave yourself. >> steve, were you making it more heavily regulated like pharmesuticals. would you be outspoken. >> i would be. i am too outspoken otherwise i would be in the white house and we would have this show there. >> a facebook question from john. who are today's living hank reardon and dagny. >> one of my heroes is charles

coke. he created the second largest companies in america and also a huge supporter of libitarian organization. and institute for human studies. >> speaking out for the individual even when it hurts his business because people hate him for it. >> he is under a huge unjust attack and he is truly an american hero. >> well is a lot of them around the country, they are struggling so hard to fight back against the oppression in the forms of licensing laws and regulations to keep the business afloat. that is an act of heroism. they are modest people who don't have acess to media. and are standing up in the odds. not simply keeping the businesses alive and many are our clients. >> thanch you, yawn and steve

and roy and chip. coming up. my champion of freedom.

>> whose fox for freedom. >> martin luther king jr.. susan b. anthony. washington jefferson on down to the men who fought and died in the wars. >> comedians. >> they do a lot for freedom. >> who comes to mine? >> no one. >> fought for my freedom. >> no one. even the child had an answer. >> who helps you to be free? >> my mommy.

>> that's a good answer. mothers help kids be free and allow them to make theirr own decisions graduallyy so they can pursue happiness. who is your championn of freedom. milton freedom. and here is others you might not think about. alferd kahn. he was a burrcrat that under president carter managed to kill off the civic aeronodics. he saved americans billions if not a trillion dollars. and normon bor log invented a high yield wheat that ended starvation and critized hysterical environmental that biengineered. and suggestions like curt,

who was a baseball player that wanted to play for another team and filed a lawsuit that made free agency possible. that started athletes getting paid what they word. he didn't get the himself. and how about lairry flyn. hustlerr magazine. he brought tastelessness in new depths. he fought for free speech . willie nelson. battle against the drug war to the roof of the white house why he reportedly smoked weed . stone face of cspan. brian lamb. he allows us to see the stupidity in the how was representative. and champions of freedom in the room. new amis here from morocco. and in the egyptian unrest this spring, he spoke in

tahrir square. he told young people to hold on to yourr freedom and don't let it go to the military or religious zealots. and tom palmer. he smuggled copies of books like the road it serfdom in countryies that don't have freedom. he puts himself at riskk in hopes others will be inspired by what they read. let's have applause for the champions of freedom. and while we are celebrating good things. tonight we end from a clip from a movie a. that producer pointed it out. astronaut farmer. at this tv network. we give you the power to prosper and the movie sums up the spirit that makes that happen. good night. >> when i was a kid they told me i could do anything i

wanted to do. no matter what. and somewhere along the line we stopped believing that we could do it. >> you better know what you want to do before someone know