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i am larry kudlow. a heavyweight contest between joe biden and donald trump. a rematch promised on september 10. we have boxing greats joe concha and mark simone to give us play-by-play and steve "forbes" on the biden stagflation, chuck grassley on the green tariff or and claudia tenney on her new bill to ban zucker box. and the border catastrophe. edward lawrence live at the white house. let's see you get in shape now. >> larry, a famous movie that we have here. that escalated quickly. president joe biden this morning issued a tweet on x posting a video asking for two debates.

former president trump accepted that debate challenge. the first one is you mentioned june 27 on cnn. the second on abc. here is how president biden made the ask this morning. >> donald trump lost two debates to me in 2020. now he is acting like he wants to debate me again. make my day, help. i will even do it twice. let's pick the dates. i hear you are free on wednesdays. >> they prefer to have an audience for these debates. one of the mandates for joe biden is that it is just the two of them in the moderators from the networks other than box. >> joe biden's handler said they don't want a large audience. they understand that joe biden cannot speak to a large crowd. that is why all of his events are very controlled. very fearful of the american protesters. >> president trump says it's

time president biden, this is his words, explains a destructive border policy, crushing inflation, high taxes and weak foreign policy. the campaign says he wanted the first debate prior to early voting starting. both candidates have catchphrases now. president biden using make my day. former president trump using let's get ready to rumble. back to you, larry. larry: i like that. edward lawrence. terrific. now the rift. presidential debates are so fond always something noteworthy or cringe worthy. i always thought the reagan debates were super cool. the first one against jimmy carter, are you better off now and you were four years ago? that was it. gabe set match. reagan one, 44 states. mondale trickier.

getting a bit tied up trying to show folks he knew policy numbers and details. he was really a big picture man. certainly the biggest conservative big picture man in the 20th century. started running stories and reagan was too old at age 73. in the second debate, reagan carried the day with a fabulous clip when he said i will not make my opponent age or inexperience an issue. take a listen. >> i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i will not exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience. >> the crowd roared in approval. not realizing how badly reagan outfoxed him. reagan took the election in 49 states. the economy after the inflationary recession was

booming. over 10% after the reagan tax cuts. i do not remember much about all of these debates. whether that causes loss, who knows. should not have raised taxes in the first place. i always thought george w. bush did a very nice job with al gore because war was such a know it all that people just got sick of him before the debate was even half over. anyway, always and underrated intellect and he took out john kerry in 2004. i don't remember much about job in kane versus obama, but to this day i still believe sarah palin be joe biden and their vice presidential debate. i was covering that up for another network and i think she surprised everybody. mckay never really had a chance. the world was melting down. donald trump surprised all the critics feeding hilary clinton

with his strong economic growth and his america first policy is. i also remember in the last debate just a couple weeks before the election would president trump blasted hilary for favoring late-term abortion. she had no answer in defense of her cruel and inhumane position. i believe that that was a huge factor in mr. trump's victory a couple weeks later. now, trump and biden will go at it again. biden released a video today trying to sound like a tough guy five edits and 13 seconds. wanting to debate trump twice but not the usual three times. he will not do it in front of an audience. he is afraid of any cross talking. kicking kennedy out of the game and he just wants the liberal networks. cnn, abc, cbs. know fox. that is unfortunate.

does not sound very tough to me. president trump knows all about the liberal network biases but he is saying yes anyway. good for him. the june 27 debate will come before the mailman voting begins which i think will favor trump. so, joe, you can put up as many guardrails as you want, but you will have to do this live, no teleprompter and you will have to defend your record on high inflation, shrinking blue-collar wages, open border catastrophe in america's weaknesses around the world. we will see how you do. let the games begin. that is the risk. all right. two boxing experts right here. we will bring in joe concha fox news contributor and hall of fame wor radio host. first of all, how tough is biden he could not even make the video [laughter] they had to keep editing the

darn thing. afraid of the crowd. trump has 100,000 people on the jersey beach. cannot keep three people in a grocery store. anyway, i digress. >> not familiar with crowds. you are afraid of what you do not know. the first debate in june. on two occasions, they shared questions with the clinton campaign in advance. do we remember that? who is to say this will not happen again? secondly, the same network that ousted its president last year. giving trump a town hall on the network. everybody on that network revolted against the president and he got kicked out. now, we are supposed to believe we will get if they are objective moderating debate from cnn. given their history in this

department. we will get a heavy dose of january 6. the trump trials. a lot of focus on abortion. the five most important topics and issues and what is most important to them. the economy and inflation. number five is poverty. >> where was the child -- trials >> you think cnn is a liberal network, really? >> scrambling away from the left what does this all mean? it means they are way behind. they must really be behind the polls. i think it panicked them trump got 100,000 people. i think that really scared them.

why so early? never had a debate before. it could be a disaster. they would need time to fix it. they have to decide whether to keep them. if they switch it will be a convention joe biden bombs june 27 which i think is the democratic convention, do you think the bosses would pull them right then and there? a bad night on the basketball playoffs. >> sometimes it is totally incoherent. we will see how bad it is. >> to marks point, two poles that came out this week. three, actually. trump leading every single one or tied in another. two other polls really caught my eye. minnesota, donald trump is tied

with joe biden. virginia, trump is tied with joe biden. even voting for walter mondale over ronald reagan. if those two states are implanted is this closer biden has to defend the states while trying to win those other ones back. >> i saw a pole, it may have been john mclaughlin, but i'm not sure. it could have been somebody else trump only down five points in new jersey. okay. among the bluest of the blue states. a guy that nobody ever heard of heat film -- phil murphy. i don't understand. why does job i did not want an audience? serious question. it will be weird. like a covid debate or something >> i think he is not used to it. i think it confuses him. trump is much funnier. he plays an audience well. gets big last.

kennedy nixon debates no audience. >> i did know that. gavin newsom and desantis pretty well without an audience. >> that is true. when reagan launched i will not take advantage of my opponents for political reasons, it killed , the whole room erupted in laughter and applause. he was totally deflated. the biden people feel they do not want anything like that to happen. joe biden, they do not say how long these debates will be. one hour and a half, two hours. >> 90 minutes. i cannot see it being any different than that. no script to save joe biden this time. if i am donald trump i am asking the questions of biden. a definitive strong answer with my time allotted. joe, what was the inflation rate

when you took office? he keeps saying he inherited. >> 9% inflation? >> i had him two out of three. three out of four days. that is remarkable. i don't know who else they have on their bench. it will be difficult. he is not afraid it look at what he has gone through. all of these trials and tribulations. there he is doing very well. looking well. he has campaigned. he is out there. he is doing fundraisers and so forth. he just wants to get into the ring with joe biden. >> biden cannot win on the border. he cannot win on crime. he cannot win on taxes. it will happen outside the debate. >> a great line, prompted, at his rally. the best argument he can make it i am stronger now and 2024 then i was in 2020 and even in 2016.

unlike those years, people see what the alternative is geared on all the issues you just talked about. it is not 2020 anymore. >> you guys going to referee or what? have they approached you to be referee's. >> i don't know why they put that in atlanta. that is not a place that trump loves. >> fanny willis. [laughter] does anyone know when the september 1 will be? all very interesting. let the games begin. joe concha and mark simone. two boxing experts. markets finished in the green. the dow up 350 points. the s&p heading a new world record. all good for the kudlow trust. we will have steve "forbes" and steve moore talking about bad economic numbers. catching kudlow monday through

friday 4:00 p.m. every day right here on foxbusiness. for some reason you cannot make it out for, please text your favorite 9-year-old and she will show you how to dvr the show and you will never miss a boxing rematch. kudlow will be right back. after advil: let's dive in! but...what about your back? it's fineeeeeeee! [splash] before advil: advil dual action fights pain two ways.

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light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. larry: stop markets hit new records today. our own jerry willis is here to make sense. >> i've got to tell you, cooler than expected. inflation numbers sending those stocks higher. we have the dow up 349 points. the s&p 500 up 61.

the nasdaq up. the bls reporting month-to-month inflation rising pretense of a percent. 3.4% year-over-year. core inflation rose 3.6% geared the lowest level in three years. while the numbers are better, inflation of 19.3% since biden took office. retail sales data sharply below expectations. sales were unchanged for march missing expectations for four tenths of a% increase. americans spent more for gas and food and less for big ticket items. larry, back to you. >> thank you very much. steve "forbes" "forbes" media chairman editor and chief steve moore unleash prosperity and wabc radio host of more money. steve "forbes," both real average hourly earnings and real

average weekly earnings continue do decline under mr. biden. the level of the cpi increasing by 20% since he was inaugurated. the cpi now for the first four months of the year running at about four and a half% at an annual rate. retail sales, the court retail sales fallen three of the last four months. it looks to be like a weakening economy and still rising inflation problems. how do you see it? >> i do not think people will be impressed. two tenths of a percent better than the economists predicted. interest rates are high. the interest you pay on a mortgage that. carlsbad. credit cards that. this is so crazy, they have a thing called super core inflation. it is up four and a half, 5% geared enjoy it while you can.

this is not overall a good report. that is why 100,000 people turned out for your opponent. >> that panic joe biden into agreeing to a debate even though they had to cut the video five times. cpi, 6.3% annually the last three months. 4.9% for the last four months. jay powell has a problem. i think the solution to the problem would certainly be a $5 trillion tax hike. oh, wait, that is not what i think. you wrote a good article on what would happen if biden was reelected. >> worse than what he has done, worst in the first term. doubling of the capital gains tax. how do you like that idea, steve "forbes"? taxing unrealized gains which is never happened before in history

he would increase the dividend tax. the democrats will pack the court. getting rid of the filibuster because there is no more cinema and no more ransom. i think they will make d.c. a puerto rico state. rigging the deck so the economy cannot make a comeback. biden saying $2 trillion more. the evil republicans would not let them spend it. another $2 trillion worth of debt. the tax on $1 million investment a 70% tax when you have the corporate tax, capital gains tax , that will destroy investment. >> on these points, biden makes a silly distinction. under 400,000, you will not feel any tax hikes. 200,000 per person.

they are each going to get hit because that is the way the tax code works. naturally, if you raise capital gains tax both realized and unrealized, the corporate tax, if you raise the top corporate tax rate the reduction for small businesses years ago, you would stop investment and capital formation which is going to damage business and wage earners ordinary blue-collar wagers and income workers would get slaughtered. 400,000 number is a red herring to obscure the fact that the rest of it will really damage middle-class people. >> yes, they will pay the price. that 20% tax called inflation. in which people respond to. this whole thing is —-dash he

does a fraction of what steve moore does on this outline. we will not just have a slow economy. we will have a severe recession or depression. 1929-1930. all of the other dumb things they did back then. big tax increase and the like. this has global implications. they also are in the process of taking over american healthcare through regulations and the like they just got rid of the nice little thing where you can buy health insurance policy bare-bones for a year. they slaughtered that one. going after it. they are doing so many regulations it is hard to keep up on it. 2025 when all of this stuff hits the fan. when summertime comes allowed air conditioning. maybe watching congress get out early. [laughter] a good wall street editorial the other day that said they want to

expand the role of your favorite housing security agencies. >> fannie mae and freddie mac. the united states government guarantee home equity loans. that does not expand homeownership. here we have americans that are up to their shoulders in debt. encouraging people more. here is a sinister thing about this. this would pump one-$2 trillion more spending and the economy did late summer months and fall. such a cynical device. due was on the getting paid for all of this. >> mortgage lenders in the private sector. they are not a lot of them. becoming too big to fail. out of the treasury. steve "forbes", why is joe biden , joe biden now, i guess on

a daily basis is saying he inherited a 9% inflation rate. is this just a matter of statistics? bureau of labor statistics. >> this is where june 27 debate takes place. the moderators calling them out on it. >> that is why i think this could be his downfall. they are doing a hail mary. he did it on state of the union where they pumped him up. he could have all of those words in front of him. looking like he is energetic. >> pumping them up. >> they should take him to the fda. >> that is exactly right. regulate the fda. i get it. >> 1.5%. >> a 12 month change 1.4%. everyone has looked it up.

>> before biden took office. a big difference. >> i just do not understand how he just keeps doing it. democrats behind-the-scenes starting to worry. that huge rally. he keeps saying what everyone knows is false. calling it out on tv and cnn. trump certainly will call him out on it in the debate. he will not be the nominee. i don't think that he will be. >> you are looking good for a while. now you are looking good again. no way he can do a debate. no way he can survive a real debate. >> i hope that steve "forbes" is wrong. we want to run. i still think that, you know -- look, the democrats, will they really put joe biden out there? he may not even be able to get through that last debate.

if you take into account the real inflation rate, what i called the middle class inflation rate, closer 24-25%, don't forget, the capital gains tax is not in that. >> having to explain to us that 24% inflation. >> things that people have to buy. >> steve "forbes" and steve moore. thank you, gentlemen. coming up senator chuck grassley on biden's green tariff war. why is biden over regulating grain farmers in the state of iowa. be sure to tune into the first episode of the fox business rundown podcast. it will be monday, may 20. yours truly will be the very first guest. episodes will be available monday-friday on spotify, apple and fox business podcast.com. pretty amazing stuff. i am kudlow.

we will be right back.

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larry: let's revisit this whole issue of biden's green tariff or with china, whatever that is, as well as some other matters. joining us now iowa senator chuck grassley. welcome back to the show. look, you are chairman of the finance committee, you are still on the finance committee have been through all the trade and tax discussions. china is still engaged in unfair trading practices and biden is putting tariffs, mostly on things that the u.s. is not buying, for example ev and cutting back on ev batteries and we do not by much aluminum or steel from china. i think that this is late, small , very meek response to the china trade war.

what do you think? >> we are 10 years behind fighting china on the trade war. stealing our intellectual property, our trade secrets, making american corporations do business the way the chinese communist party wants it done. we should be getting them out of the wto because they are not following the rules of international trade. we should be considering putting tariffs on. we should be using the offsets that we have when foreign governments subsidize. dollar for dollar, it should be. i think going the tariff war way will invite retaliation like we saw in the previous administration.

they took retaliation against agricultural products for a state like mine where we produce a third more than we consume domestically. we have to export and we cannot have a trade war that hurts some segments of the american economy you are absolutely right, china is doing things that are entirely wrong by subsidizing their products or restricting exports of their products so they can monopolize the market and they are really doing it in a way to get there economy going again by emphasizing subsidize manufacturing and then dumping it all over the world. >> that is the thing. you know, to your points, we had a two year negotiation. new year's plus. i was on the china trade team and so forth. china has not lived up to buying the agricultural farm commodities that was originally

planned out. they have not bought the manufacturing or chemical commodities that was laid out. they have not stopped the stealing of intellectual property. they still are forcing technology transfers. they still own 51% of every american company that does business in china. all issues put on the table and trumps phase one deal in the bidens are not talking about any of that stuff. they are putting small terrace, $18 billion is nothing. we have a 300 billion plus trade deficit with china. they are not raising the questions. one last one. china, as you undoubtedly know, china is buying oil from iran which breaks sanctions. they are buying oil from russia. sir, in so doing and importing oil, they are financing to wars against the united states. and the bidens never say a word

about that. >> you are absolutely right. it goes back to the trump administration, the good things they did to put the clamps on iran so they could not export their oil. those sanctions are still on. this administration is not enforcing those sanctions so we have tens of billions of dollars of income into iran. selling most of their oil to china. then we get back $6 billion of frozen sanction money that gave back to them and what do they use that for? they use that for subsidizing terrorism in the middle east and around the world. and for all we know tariffs into the united states. it is just wrong that they are enforcing those and we are emboldening iran and enriching

iran so they can continue to subsidize terrorism in the middle east. >> yes, sir. senator grassley, last 45 seconds. over regulating grain farmers. as i understand particularly and iowa. can you give us 40 seconds on that, sir. >> i will take 40 minutes but i will take 40 seconds. >> going by the acronym gre et is a scientific formula. it has been politicized here in washington, d.c. by bureaucrats that do not know anything about family farming and how we raise corn and soybeans and we need that corn and soybeans to get the next generation of aviation fuel.

they are doing it in such a complicated way that they will not get any farmers to cooperate and it. in the meantime, they will export or import from brazil ethanol that comes from sugar because it has a less environmental carbon footprint. >> all right. shining the spotlight on it. thank you very much. thank you for your other comments. good to see you. now we will switch gears a little bit. talk about campaign finance. with me now is a great congressman from new york ms. claudia tenney. we will go from grain production to zucker bucks. you have a bill that may rule it out. i have to ask you, i know you will get ahead, joe biden on the other hand has executive wars out to lift the entire bureaucracy harvest votes for this election. what can you tell us?

>> let me first tell you the act passed today out of the house and ways and means committee. that is the first step. this is where mark zuckerberg puts $419 billion in two priming the pump. supposedly the money to go to ppe during the pandemic collection. 92% of it went mostly in the swing states are mostly democratic districts to make sure they can drag joe biden over the finish line. the entire election was decided by 44,000 votes. now we are trying to do it on the federal level. coming in with the executive order. the massive bureaucracy that we see this federal government to actually go out and get and collect ballots to registered voters to take them off their

mission of health and human services working with people to help them with their healthcare needs or the child care needs. any of those things we do at health and human services. now they will be focused on getting ballots in the box which is how democrats will try to win this election because president trump is wending across the board in just about every swing state and across the country and the general poles. that his electioneering. it is taking federal employees, especially under the executive branch and getting them to do political work. that is prohibited by our government. we will fight that. live a bill out there that would stop that. people need to be alerted and sound the alarm anywhere there is a federal agency, they will be off their mission. they will be getting votes and they will get ballots in the box for joe biden. we have to fight those or we will lose this election. >> i think you are 100% right. actually, what was it, the justice department, they were

going to recruit voters. that was part of the mission statement which is not a fabulous idea. the thing is, i think shining light on it, i do not think the public really knows yet, we have raised it once or twice before on this show and now with you to sort of bring the alarm bell. you are right, this violates. this politicized as the whole left-wing bureaucracy. in support of joe biden. this is something fundamentally wrong with this. heaven forbid anti-democracy. >> they are doing everything that they can. phony show trials that they are doing against president trump, classic collection interference, take trials with no crime, nothing that could possibly be charged against president trump. forcing him to stay in a courtroom. now they are out there trying to use the federal bureaucracy. by the way, 28 states have banned the use of the private

funding using this 5 o 1 c 3 technology. using our own tax dollars. the cost is about $1 billion in our own use of our tax dollars. instead of the private billionaires funding this, now we have our own tax dollars and swing states where this election will be decided. clearly, every single swing state if you added it all up 340 , 50, the entire election if you looked at all the swing states, not just the critical ones, 300 30,000 votes. 44,000 people were primed by this and what do we get, our country destroyed and just literally a year. now it is getting even worse. our economic policy, inflation, everybody knows this is a disaster. this is how the democrats win. we have to beat them on policy and process and we have to make voting great again. get out and vote. that is all i can say.

>> early and often come up myself. thank you claudia tenney. coming right up. we will talk with senator marsha blackburn about mr. biden's open border catastrophe. new numbers and it may be some new regulations and none of it is good. we will be right back. my inner child craving love and acceptance? how about you love and accept this? p-p-p-p-powershot! when can i drive? you already are! the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover. so tell me about your heart attack. our heart attack was... scary! never want to go through that again. but we could. with heart disease, you never know. so we made changes. green juice. yeah, not a fan. diet, exercise...

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larry: president biden is rumored to be close to putting out a new executive order about the border. joining us now tennessee senator marsha blackburn -- marsha blackburn. the way i hear it, you probably know more. 4000 illegals crossed per day. 120,000 a month. at 1.4 million a year. 1.4 million illegals in a year. what do you think? >> i am with you on this. here is what he is telling us. he is okay with saying 4000 a day and then shutting the border and then saying, look, i have the ability to shut the border. he is telling us he has been

lying this whole time because he says he could not shut the border unless congress passed the bill. he can shut it. he has that authority. he needs to say, i am going to put remain in mexico back in place. i will shut down this order. we will go back to building a physical barrier which the border patrol has said that they need and they've been saying that for decades. 1.4 million a year. how many cities in the u.s. are larger than 1.4 million? not many. he is okay with adding another city. you look at the explosion of these numbers sent joe biden became president. this is another reason we need president donald trump back in the white house.

secure the border. >> 3.2 million illegals last year alone. 2022, 2.8 million and illegals. here's another one, senator blackburn. our great reporter, he's got some numbers on so-called got a ways which don't have any interaction whatsoever. last year, 670,000 god always. that is a big number. the prior year 606,000. if you go back to the prior 10 years, obama and trump, there was one point or million. before -- we are doubling this now. every couple of years this is happening. it adds a big chunk to the actual illegal numbers. last year 3.9 million illegals. i mean, i don't know, he will not address any of that. he will not reform asylum policy he will give everybody green cards. that is my biggest concern.

you have a green card or some kind of temporary visa, you may use it to vote. even though you are not a citizen. that worries me a lot. >> well, it should. in those got a ways, unknown got a ways, the number is bigger. you are right, under obama and trump 1.4 billion for all that time. under joe biden having three and a half years in office. 1.6 million out a ways. your audience needs to think of this in terms of the population of the city. one and a half million people. they are, this administration is saying we will give you ids this summer. we will give you work permits. what are they going to do? they will try to vote.

>> yes, ma'am. larry: sorry, we are little short. thank you very much. as always, we appreciate it

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