living in blue states. you don't want to see these states turn purple or turn blue, texas or florida, to keep the balance in the country. guy: taking the red votes out of a blue states, turning state like florida redder. some of the states are getting bleuer that is the tradeoff. taylor: let's talk about a tradeoff in the equity markets today. you're off 1, maybe 1.2% across the board. dragged down by health care and as medicare advantage rates came in lower than expected. bond rates are rising. that is fascinating that usually doesn't happen in a classic risk day. guy benson, thanks for joining us the past few days. so fun to have you. "making money" with charles payne starts right now. charles: thank you all very much, good afternoon, everyone, i'm charles payne this is "making money." so over 100 trading days without

a 2% decline for the market. could that change today? it will be a last crazy two hours of trading. the more important question for you should you be buying the dip. i have best in the business ready to share their strategies and ideas with you. how will the market reacts, say the 10-year hits 5%. jim bianco predicted it. he will tell us what to expect if that does happen. warnings this is a new era of higher global inflation and it will require major action to combat it, including a much more powerful federal reserve. say it ain't so. biden administration takes major steps to outlaw gasoline-powered cars. they say it is about social justice. the new narrative that these are the good old days. i love to hear your thoughts. are these the good ol' days? tweet me @cvpayne. that and much more on "making money." ♪. charles: all right, so whole bunch of things conspiring to

make this a really tough session so far. first of course you just heard talking about these health care stocks. humana, cvs, united, by the way this is the most influential stock on the dow. one of the reason i don't like using the dow, only 30 stocks a poor representation of the market and the economy. nevertheless one of the reasons it is down a lot. it wasn't the fact that this medicare advantage thing came up short. last night pvh, phillips van heusen, top products with call sin klein and tomly hilfiger laid an -- calvin klein and tommy hilfiger. ralph lauren is down with it. there is higher gasoline prices, right? people are paying more at the pump. they can't go on things like the regent cruise line. of course last but not least, speaking of gasoline, tesla, folks. tesla came out this morning with their cars that they distributed. just an absolute disaster.

even though we had been warned the number was going to be down. at the open this is what it looked like. might have changed a little bit. for the most part a real tough session so far. speaking of gasoline prices moving higher so are bond yields, right? here's the thing, this morning this line here, resistance line? we gapped over that this morning this is a key resistance line. if you look at this right now, there is not a lot of resistance until the huge gap at 4.7. that would be absolutely catastrophic but it could happen. listen there, is a tremendous amount of speculation meantime in this market. that is one of the things that could start to add to volatility. hedge funds are net short equities. you can see their long positions, short positions, net, hedge funds. hedge funds right now betting something is going to happen and happen real soon. of course you know, listen if it goes the other way then hedge funds help on the short squeeze. right now hedge funds are betting big time this market is going to come down.

speculation not just reserved for hedge funds. these are asset managers. look at speculative positions. just through the roof. so is it any wonder, you start to think about this. we have a lot of guests who kind of come on, stay in the market, don't worry about it, buy and hold. well we're not buying and holding anymore. we used to. not long ago, maybe long ago. the average holding period for a stock and hold it for eight years! right now it is down to a few months. who knows it could be soon down to a few weeks. with that in mind there is a notion out there this market is due, folks. all the things they were talking about, this is a toxic brew. then you add to it how long and how strong we've been. it has been over 110 trading days without a 2% decline. relative strength has been over 150 for 100 trading sessions and ironically you're not supposed to short this kind of thing but at some point it goes up and peaks. let's bring in bianco research

president jim bianco. jim, it is always easy to say the market is due for a pullback. it is newton laws we need a force to counter the motion upward so what could happen to make that change? >> oh, i think it is the basic the cost of money, it is interest rates. if the cost of money were to go higher and it is as you point out, it broke out among its resistance that is going to make everything in financial markets more expensive and that will weigh on the market. now i know there is a narrative in the market, oh, interest rates don't matter. i like to joke there are only two types of people that don't think interest rates that matter, those that lost money and those who will lose money think interest rates don't matter. they do matter. sometimes they assert themselves at different levels f interest rates start up it will matter. it will be a counterbalance on this market. charles: we had some economic data out today both underscoring the resolve in market.

factory orders was better than expected. the jolts number wasn't really a jolt at all. this number you posted over the weekend, gdp, since the lockdown we had a big negative in the gdp it is extraordinarily powerful and still expected to grow pretty strong. at lan fed gdp numbers are up there. goldman sachs put out some numbers. if this is the case what does it mean for fed policy because this doesn't look like a reason to start cutting rates? >> that is exactly right. this is what i referred to, many others referred to as the no landing scenario. the economy is not soft landing it is continuing to grow. that is good, no one wants the economy not to continue to grow but it can come as a consequence. all this economic activity is pushing prices higher in inflation. not 8%, newspaper% like a couple three years ago, but sticking in the 3% range that will keep interest rates up. it is great the economy is

growing, we all want it, i want it too but it will not happen with interest rates falling. so that is what will be the pushback on all this. charles: before we go you talked a few months ago bond yields being five, 5 1/2%, you were certainly an island by yourself. i mentioned at the start of the show we gapped open today, not a lot of resistance, close that gap, 4.% but is this still possible? say we get there, more important question, we get there, 10-year yield, 5%, what happens to the stock market? what happens around the broader markets? >> so the last time we were at 5% yields was late october. so we've been there before and that was also the last time that the stock market had a 10% correction. from it its july peak to its october low and yeah, interest rates weighed on the market. so i suspect if this breakout in interest rates are moving higher and 5% is not stowing to really impair the economy, it is going

to bother the stock market because that is what has happened in the past and i suspect that is what we're going to see going forward. charles: hey, good stuff, jim, always appreciate starting the show with you. thanks a lot. >> thank you. charles: you know, folks, one of the more disheartening aspects of today's session is the action in small caps, right? the russell 2000 is getting hit harder than all these other major indices. you have united health which is a huge anchor on the dow. you have got these tech names on the s&p and all these others and here's the thing though, this is the russell 2000. it has been in a nice stealth rally and more recently it has held above these key moving averages but on days like this it gets anker and it feels brutal. i want to bring in market gauge managing director michele schneider. the russell 2000 still above key moving averages but as these wild things how does the investor approach investing in the russell 2000 knowing these names can be more volatile than

the rest of the market? >> one of the most important things about investing in small caps or mid-caps, really having an understanding not just the ones that are doing very well momentumwise, but also ones with good balance sheets and strong earnings growth and if you stuck to that, you have actually outperformed the regular 2000 stocks that are in the small caps and probably kept up pretty well even with some of the large caps that aren't as interest rate sensitive. charles: right. >> clearly listening to jim, exactly right, the companies that cannot handle the higher interest rates are what's really going to drag down the overall index of the iwm or the russell 2000. charles: right. i read somewhere like 40% may not even be profitable. so drill down, folks. this ain't the one to buy the index. you want to be specific. hey, let me ask you about commodities. you made so much money last couple years in the commodities area. overall commodities are turning higher. we talked about oil at the top of the show.

are you buying anything here in the commodities space? >> we'll we've been sitting long silver, gold miners, gold, oil a long, long time now. i just noticed a couple things perking up in the most recent times. uranium being one. coffee being another. obviously everybody knows about the big cocoa blowoff. so i'm going to choose them carefully because this could be basically dominated by the metals and oil but if they continue with these runs, then yeah it will definitely trickle to things like aluminum are starting to pick up. charles: michelle, we've got less than a minute but i do want to share with the audience some of the buys that you're looking at and kind of drill in. nmn, nancy, mike, mike, is a tanker stock. i notice these tanker stocks are starting to move. is this just only oil going up but maybe as a consequence of some of the things, supply issues we may be seeing in other parts of the world? >> absolutely and, charles, this

is a classic example of a small to mid-cap stock that has outperformed obviously the index of the small caps and also doing very well in terms of their earnings growth and their balance sheets which is why we have gotten into it and if you look at a chart currently it is going sideways, which means at this level of consolidation it has a good opportunity to break out even higher, particularly as you say with supply chain issues. charles: michelle, if has been far too long. great seeing you. let's talk again soon, thank you. >> thank you. charles: tough day so far for the market. my next guest says it is actually a great time to be andn investor. you have so many options. nicole web -- webb to share the news and pinpoint those options. ♪. (♪)

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so you aren't hungry or fatigued. after i started taking release, the weight just started falling off. since starting golo and taking release, i've gone from a size 12 to a 4. before golo, i was hungry all the time and constantly thinking about food. after taking release, that stopped. with release, i didn't feel that hunger that comes with dieting. which made the golo plan really easy to stick to. since starting golo and release, i have dropped seven pant sizes and i've kept it off. golo is real, our customers are real, and our success stories are real. why not give it a try? charles: well, my next guest says there are a lot of interesting patterns out there, all of that aside though, it is just a great time to be an investor because you have options. let's bring in wealth enhancement group senior vice president, nicole webb. i agree with your comments.

i do want to add it is an even greater time to be an investor when the fed is your friend. let me show you something with the audience, since the last fomc meeting, the one in november, rather, 10.9 trillion, that is with a t, trillion dollars in stock market gains. 2.6 trillion in bond market gains. all of sudden the fed is back in focus here and the question is with all of these options you're looking at you have on the table here, nicole, how important is it to the fed stick to this sort of notion that they will cut a few times this year? >> charles, i would say this rally isn't necessarily beholden to rate cuts. that they matter but it is the why behind cuts matters or the why behind the delay matters and seemingly powell is ready to let this economy continue to run hot. the only thing i would say is, the upside to this rally is fundamentals, beyond the fed.

that the, there is upside in revenue growth, in productivity, in advancements in technology and that just pause the market had a big rally doesn't mean that it can't keep going and i wouldn't want to be caught off sides. i heard your comment about short positions from hedge fund but they're not always right. they don't always have positive years. charles: believe me i know. i know when i'm on the other side of a hedge fund trade. >> there you go. charles: retail positioning, retail investors, i wanted to ask about this, we talk a lot about the sentiment but this is where their money is. 69% in stocks, almost 14% bonds, and almost 17% in cash. ideally, some of these numbers are kind of extreme in terms of equity. that is the highest since 2022. fixed income also the lowest since 2022. so, are these, do these seem extreme to you? is this too much exposure to stocks? how is your ideal portfolio composed right now? >> yeah. i mean, look, the interesting

thing about cash positions to me right now coral -- correlates really well into that fed narrative, it seems like there is this desire to have cash in preparation for deploying cash when. and i would say, you know, from a sentiment standpoint the stock market has been an atm for those of us who are held to a mandate, who have to pare back our positioning, who when you have these massive runups have to stick to a strategy. if you're an average retail investor and you played into this properly, you've been exposed to equities, you're probably disproportionately allocated and then the question is, do you need to harvest some of those gains the way that those of us who manage a strategy do? charles: right. >> i would say from a cash positioning standpoint this is where the narrative around rate cuts gets really interesting and reacceleration of demand should that happen. whether it be for car loans,

mortgages, we could go on and on. so i think that just tells a lot to me about the strength of the consumer and where rate sensitivity plays into how one would think about constructing a portfolio. charles: nicole, running out of time but i want to share with the audience some of the ideas that you like now. speaking of consumer mcdonald's is on your list. xle, crude oil has broken out, west texas intermediate. builder, full disclosure i'm also long builder. the situation where no one wants to sell their homes, means we have to keep building more because there is such a limited supply. great having you on. see you real soon. >> see you real soon. two weeks. bye-bye. charles: folks, throwing water on misleading macroeconomic narratives because there is lot of them out there. gregory dako one of the top economists out there, the bottom line there is a lot of misinformation that he is here

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charles: so new research paper from brookings suggesting that we are in a new era of higher global inflation and it is going to require some major adjustments if we're going to combat it. want to go with kelly o'grady with more,.

>> reporter: what you just want to hear, charles. the takeaway from the report dynamics that helped keep inflation low may be reversing. so the report starts outlining why we enjoyed four decades of decline when it comes to global inflation. let me give you some background. the factors that helped produce this, include increased trade and washington consensus. international trade puts pressure on firms with open markets to make sure the prices stay competitive. according to the paper the golden age of trade, 1970 to 2007 is also known as the hyper globalization era. trade soared from 25% of global gdp to 59% and that means a lot of competitive pressure on prices. further the washington consensus, that's the theory of prioritizing market liberalization, privatization, fiscal discipline. from 1985 to 2001 the country classified as market-oriented they increased almost 80% from

30%. another factor the report cites is lowering inflation the decline in unionization especially in your advanced economies. go back between 1980 and 2010, 20 out of 24 oecd nations experienced a reduction in unionization rates, even in germany. finally you have a number of historical central bank reforms that drove down inflation. so you go back between 1990 and 2010, 80 of 113 central banks across the globe experienced improved independence through legislative reforms. during this period, 60 of those central banks adopted inflation targeting. the paper argues also for some solutions. until these measures are taken there will be serious rounds of high every inflation. one reverse deglobalization. get back to the point around price pressure. another to increase central bank independence, and finally the report argues for credible public debt policy. pandemic, increased defense spending, funding to decree carbon emissions contributes to

more government debt and more inflation. finally there is one intriguing note, it is worth noting if the political economy pressures do result in higher average inflation it will likely come in the form of occasional bursts such as after the pandemic rather than a inflation rate that continously exceeds that target. charles, this research is out just in time. the pace of global inflation declining has abruptly stopped. in some cases you see the u.s. here is actually increasing. back to you. charles: kelly, thank you very, very much. meanwhile my next guest throwing cold water are he calls misleading macroeconomic narratives. we have ey parthenon, gregory daco. thanks for joining. there is no evidence the economy is reaccelerating, nor inflation is picking up or inflation has become entrenched other even the fed it about to tight renn. all of these narratives that are floating out there you are saying are total bunk? >> there has been a lot of noise in the economic data both in january and in february. we're in an environment where

you have to be careful with any data print. we are seeing ongoing evidence that the economy is gradually decelerating. that that is push, putting disinflationary pressures into the economy and the fed will likely be considering easing monetary policy, not tightening monetary policy. that is what we're seeing. >> do you worry though that last jobs report that unemployment rate jumped .2 of a percent? no one had that on the bingo card, i think hemingway, gradually, sudden. things that we were comfortable we were in cruise control all of sudden we're not in cruise control? >> that is often times the way recessions happen, they happen suddenly there is a private sector retrenchment occurs on the back of slowdown in labor market growth. what we've been seeing so far, the key reason why the u.s. economy remains resilient, is the global outperformer is that the fact the u.s. labor market is still resilient. we're adding a decent number of

jobs. if you look at the hiring rate, the quits rates, evidence of some hours worked you're seeing a gradual deceleration in labor demand. nothing alarming. still enough to keep consumer spending but there is still deceleration in the works. charles: yesterday the manufacturing report, ism manufacturing report, it was an amazing report in a lot of ways stuck out for me. you went from contraction to growth. overall number of new orders in production. two lines i have to really ask you about. employment now contracting for six months. maybe at a slower rate but still contracting. that is employment. prices increasing faster now for a third month. >> yes. charles: that's seems like a toxic brew. what does the fed -- powell has a dual mandate of these two things what does he come to first, if these continue this way? does he try to save the jobs market or try to bring prices down? because it felt like at the last fomc meeting he changed the

narrative from inflation to focus on jobs? >> i think there is a increased focus on jobs from the part of the fed to your question inflation versus jobs i think it depends of the magnitude or breadth of any strength we see on either side or weakness we see on either side. if we see broad-based inflationary pressures the fed will be concerned and not ease monetary policy as much as previously expected. if there is a rapid slowdown, as you talked about earlier a more rapid slowdown in the labor market it will adopt a more dovish stand. charles: we have less than a minute to go. the paper talked about tariffs, no matter who wins we'll have those in place you mentioned in your own notes risk that you're watching. the spike in oil prices for instance, the supply chain issues for instance. terrorists for instance, those are there. i don't think those are going to go away so what happens? but you're still cool though, you're not concerning enough for you not to think the fed is going to cut a few times this

year? >> i think we are in a environment where increasingly the supply side of economy we have monitor closely. global fragile environment. the disruptions like in baltimore do have ramifications in terms of the economy, but sickly speaking we're in an environment where there is more, less pricing power, where there is more pricing sensitivity. that is disinflationary. we've talked about greater productivity growth also being disinflationary. charles: right. >> in the longer run, demographics, deglobalization, decarbonization of the economy those will have a cost and lead to higher inflationary pressures we had before the pandemic but that is more after structural issue than near term issue. charles: i got it. greg, thank you. let's bring in qi research chief strategist, danielle dimartino booth. danielle, let's pick up on the manufacturing report because again there is some red flags in this report and again, you also have looked at several of these

regional fed reports and you see a lot of red flags as well, right? >> i do, charles and in fact the one indicator that i look at the most closely whether you're talking about the richmond fed or philly fed is backlogs and backlogs are orders that companies are sitting on they have not been able to satisfy the demand outpaces their ability to produce. and that typically means you know what we'll have to hire more people in order to satisfy this backlog of demand. well backlogs have been consistently negative throughout the regional federal reserve districts and by the way, they were very negative in yesterday's i.s.m. report. to your point on production, there were 13 of 18 industries ism tracks with expanding productions. there were only three with expanding backlogs, charles. the demand follow-through is just not there. >> used such a great array of data, probably more than anyone i know. talk to us about developments in the equipment leasing and

finance foundation, the elff, why they're so important, why we should be paying attention right now? >> i mean but think about equipment and the different tentacles that it has throughout the cyclical economy, whether you're talking about the current administration's spending on infrastructure or if you're going to build a new manufacturing plant, equipment is everywhere. if you're building a multifamily apartment high-rise or a home, a single-family home. so we listen really closely when this organization speaks and what they had to say was that they saw a pop in activity in march because individual lenders were able to take up the slack, where banks had been stepping back because banks had been losing so much money on chargeoffs but the private lending community stepped in and was able to provide that financing. what was less encouraging they're still seeing very high chargeoffs. so people are still losing money. there are still bad debts

rolling through the system, charles. charles: yesterday, greg shapiro put out a tweet i thought was intriguing noting that the united states issuing more t-bills at an accelerated rate. this is really a precondition to becoming a banana republic. this is type of thing you see emerging markets do, not the issue of the world's reserve currency and certainly with that in mind, i think one of the reasons they're doing it, they don't want to do longer term duration stuff that is going to push yields up into the election, credit card rates being what they are, all these other things, if we city down this path, is this something that leads us to being less of a preeminent nation? >> look, michael hartnett over at bank of america, he has been there for ages, he does great work. i'm not fact-checking it but a few years ago he said we have the lowest interest rates in 5000 years, charles. the opportunity that the united

states of america had to indemnify the standing of the sovereign by extending out the maturities of its debts, so that if anything, any kind of a rumble in the economy, the global economy, maybe a few countries out there don't like us, it doesn't matter, we've extended out the maturities of our debt, taking advantage of the lowest interest rates in 5000 years. that opportunity has been squandered and we are behaving like a third world nation and shame on us. charles: yeah. we definitely, that ship has sailed. i don't know why, they will be talking about that for a long time, why we did not take advantage of it. it is unlikely we'll be down there anytime soon. danielle, thank you very much. talk to you again real soon. >> thank you, charles. charles: all right folks, these bitcoin etfs still the talk of the town. $111 billion worth in march. that kind of momentum is phenomenal. yet there are folks out there saying this is not a store of

value. we'll ask anthony pomly auno next. ♪.

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♪. charles: all right that locomotive continues, folks. bitcoin etf trading 111 billion last month, triple what they did in january and february. with us pomp investor anthony pomly ahn know. this is kind of thing you talked about. demand was through the roof. what was the high, 72? >> 72,000. charles: 72,000. pulled back to 65,000. the narrative, gold is up, bitcoin is down, it is not a store of value. what do you say to folks that maybe it has got some investment opportunities, trading opportunities but it still hasn't proven itself as a store of value? >> when you want a store of value usually you're not talking about storing value from yesterday to today. you're storing value from five, 10, 15, 20 years. when i think about bitcoin can i preserve my economic value for my kids and my grandchildren?

right now i think bitcoin is probably the best place you can go and do that. if we look at what people using historically store of value there is gold and dollars. gold is up. all-time high. it hits all-time high when 12 goes up $10, $20. these moves are not meaningful to people that buy gold that see a 30, 40, 50-dollar increase in the price. the dollar is down in purchasing power terms. charles: right. >> 25% since 2020. you have lost 25% of your purchasing power in four years. bitcoin during that time is 800%. people starting to realize, store some portion or large portion of our wealth in bitcoin, everything around me gets cheaper instead of more expensive. that is what you want from a store of value. charles: larry fink on our network made a lot of news. are are you surprised someone like him has come around? couple years ago he was definitely in the no bitcoin camp. >> a lot of people spent a lot of time with him educating him.

larry fink and folks at blackrock don't get enough credit for work they put into it. they didn't wake up bitcoin is good now. they did the work and research. there is gentleman over there with digital assets he spent a bunch of time talking internally with folks, make sure you know what we're buying and offering to clients. larry fink is one of the king of finance f larry fink says this has a shot people will listen. charles: sure. >> what is messenger really matters. all the things about it coiners have been say, 10, 15 years. when it comes from larry fink it has a strength to it. the financial folks take the traditional talking points and repeat them in the media. charles: every parent knows that, you can tell your kids something. taylor swift says it and you're right. let's put up a chart this is from our friend yearian timmer, he is absolutely amazing. bitcoin risk reward ratio. this will blow our mind. you will see a lot of dots a lot

of bubbles, all confusing but look at the top corner up by itself that is bitcoin. the rest of those bubbles jammed up. that is all the other assets risk versus reward. what does that tell you? >> to mean it means okay it still may be volatile, in the last 11 years, number one asset eight times, the worst three times. buckle up boys and girls, but you want to be there? >> if you go back over 10 years, bitcoin compounded annual growth rate for a decade is 60% or higher. when you say that obviously it is going up in p. but the question if you're building a portfolio the average investor will not put 100% of their portfolio in one asset like bitcoin. instead they do through various portfolio constructions et cetera, take a couple non-core lated assets put them together and have a portfolio that should do well over time. bitcoin tends to be very low correlation or no correlation to

traditional assets. it goes a lot and. if you gamble or trade this thing you will probably not do so hot. if you learn to buy an asset, hold for the long term, bitcoin is good for investors. i think it continues to do that moving forward. charles: 30 seconds, having thing we talk about before, could that be sell on the news kind of even? >> bitcoin goes up a lot day-to-day, if people are looking at that anything can happen. price can go up, sideways or can go down right? i think the having a classic economics 101. cut the supply from 900 to 450, we don't need demand for the price to go up. need demand to say the same, cut the supply in half. the price should go up t will not go up overnight. it will take a few months in order to work in the market. people should expect to six12 months later to see the material increase in price. charles: great stuff. you've been killing it, brother. folks, could we actually at this

very moment be living in the good ol' days right now? there is some research out there, this is it, it has never been better. tweet me @cvpayne. i have a power panel. david webb, kaley mcghee-white next. ♪ ♪. (vo) what does it mean to be rich? maybe rich is less about reaching a magic number... and more about discovering magic. rich is being able to keep your loved ones close. and also send them away. rich is living and having someone who can help you get there. the key to being rich is knowing what counts. morikawa on 18. he is really boxed in here. -not a good spot.

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charles: all right, folks, we know in the coming days we're going to be hearing about a making america great request again, but some folks say it's never been better. in fact, they say these are the good old days. joining me now, fox nation host david webb, washington examiner's kaylee mcghee white. we've got this report saying these are the good with old days and they compare the 1950s, the house, the average house was 983 square feet, now it's 2500.

65% of people owned homes versus 55% p. 97% of people had tvs, back then the only 10% had tvs. inflation if was lower, life expectancy was lore. let's stop talking about yesteryear. >> there's no tout that our quality of life are has dramatically improved from the '60s and '70s. the vast majority of people have access to the much higher quality of life are. however, the past few years have a lot of people, especially younger adults my age, nervous that we're going to quickly lose that. you look at inflation that refuses to abate. you looked at these interest rates that are preventing young adults from buying their first home, it's troubling stuff. charles: and, by the way, the home ownership is dropping lower and lower now. at this doesn't talk about things like -- also this doesn't talk about things like crime, all of a sudden people are dying younger, you know? there's a lot of things -- the open opioid epidemic in this country. david, there's a lot of things that makes people long for the

good old days. >> and, by the way, you have to make 80% now than you did a few years ago to buy a starter home. so these are the real days that we're to dealing with today. kaylee's point about the trajectory, where we are. where were we in 2007 and '8? similarities, flakes. -- inflation. look at stagflation as a possibility, recession. all of these things are going on. they like to drag you back can and tell you it's better than then, but it's not supposed to be where it is today. charles: the ability to put a down payment on a house now -- >> 80% more than you made -- charles: that's mind-boggling. i want to talk about the biden administration and this ev push. it's mind-boggling. people don't want them. people do not want them. more evidence of that today. tesla reported their distribution numbering -- numbers, unmitigated disaster. that stock is getting hammered. nevertheless, they keep coming up with these cafe standards and p folks, this is the scam a here. the average fleet has to average

a certain amount of miles per gallon. if you can't get that,s you have to change something out. this is one of the reasons why we have less safe cars, by the way. to meet this in the past, we went from steel, heavy metal cars that could save your life to these fiberglass cars. but it's getting worse now, and what bothers me, david, is they're making it illegal, de facto illegal eventually to own or even sell these electric -- can gasoline-powered cars. as an american, i like the option. i really do. >> they don't want the option, they want do kill it. they want to kill fossil fuels. 1975 café if standards come in, but what kills us -- killed us was the catalytic converter. technology's gotten better. cars are basically spit out vapor today, and the electric cars are heavier by thousands of pounds, they wear the rub e the brakes more, they wear the metal more, they're not as solid as before -- charles: the tires run out, right -- >> the carbon footprint can be. charles: right. there's a bigger carbon

footprint, if is and no one talks about that. they hate gasoline. >> but for our truckers, 80,000-pound trucks would require about 16,000 pounds of batteries and still can't get up the hill and go anywhere in america, especially winter. charles: another thing when they start talking about this, kaylee are, they always say part of this is the social justice. like a lot of blacks, a lot of brown people live near highways and and this is social justice. so what we'll to do is we're going to give rich white focus with college degrees $15,000 a year to go buy an ev. that will fix -- by the way, i do want to get you on this before i let you go. i say this is just one part of the biden administration being the best presidential -- presidency ever for wealthy people. rich people have gotten so much richer under biden, and that's because he's doing things that make them richer. >> it's part of this realignment over the past few years. the democratic party has become the party of the rich, white and educated, and the republican

party's increasingly attracting blue collar workers. and i look at the ev push, and i've got to say it's amazing why biden wonders why he's on his way to losing michigan. i'm from the detroit area. they realize this is going to destroy the auto industry, and there is a swift backlash from the autoworkers in the state against that. so biden needs to take a long look at what he's doing here and maybe consider the political outcomes. chas charles yeah. i think they're going to roll the dice with this. this is all ideologically driven, none of it has anything to do with economics -- >> or reality. charles: and, you know, that's the price they pay. >> no, we pay the price. that's the bottom line. charles: yeah. great stuff. wish we had more time. we've got to put you guys in the a a block next time. [laughter] see you later. i've got to update you on a major case involving custodial wang, they have lost their -- bank. a federal judge ruling that the fed has the right to block banks from accessing their financial services. the bank's founder and ceo,

caitlin long, she joins me now. caitlin, everybody was rooting for you. [laughter] i mean, everybody was saying, you know, we're rooting for you, and i know you've been trying to get this master account from, you know, the federal reserve since 2020. so what happens now in what's the next step? and, by the way, what was the reasoning for them denying you? >> well, we are looking at an appeal, and we're still ownerring our bitcoin custody businesses -- operating our bitcoin custody business is unaffected by this completely. the reason for denial was, in our case, there were actually two cases that came out, curiously, over easter weekend. both decisions by judges in idaho and wyoming, two red states who had had banks blocked by the fed. both decisions handed the fed unfettered discretion. and this has never happened before. and so the impact of that is we find ourselves on the front lines of the war against debanking in the united states.

charles: right. >> one of the solutions to that was that the states could charter their own banks so that if the politically incorrect industries were debanked like firearm as or crypto, that the states always had the ability to charter banks. we've had that ability in the united states, for the states to charter banks, since the inception of the united states. charles: yeah. >> so this is actually quite a big change. charles: it is. there was a time when states were making their own money. the federal reserve is only nip tent, becoming even more powerful as we speak, and it's opaque. and it's always felt like, you know, listen, the creature from jekyll island, that it was designed and works specifically for large banks and ultra-wealthy the folks, and that's one of the reasons people were sort of hoping you would have access to it, because they impact all of our lives. how do you feel about this? we've only got a minute to go, but are you confident about this appeal, and what are you going to do to let the public know that, hey, this is not right and everyone should be offended?

>> well, boy, senator pat toomey took the gloves often on the fed and so did anthony scaramucci and your colleagues, and we've had quite a bit of press coverage of this. and, look, we're fighting. the state of wyoming joined us and, unfortunately, the federal judges concluded the federal reserve is more powerful than one of the united states' states. and and so we'll see what, what comes. we don't have an announcement yet, but we are far from done. we are, like i said, on the front lines fighting this debanking by politicized federal bank regulators and handing the federal reserve unfettered discretion not just to deny an applicant, but to close an existing bank's account and deny them's access to the u.s. dollar system. charles: right. we've got to leave it there, k5eu9 lin. thank you for keeping us informed. liz claman, over to you. liz: ca charles, thank you. three breaking news headlines dunking the markets into the red and forcing a spike if in